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Israel Rains Fire on Gaza With Phosphorus Shells
JERUSALEM - Israel is believed to be using controversial white phosphorus shells to screen its assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip yesterday. The weapon, used by British and US forces in Iraq, can cause horrific burns but is not illegal if used as a smokescreen.
Israel is believed to be using controversial white phosphorus shells to screen its assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip yesterday. As the Israeli army stormed to the edges of Gaza City and the Palestinian death toll topped 500, the tell-tale shells could be seen spreading tentacles of thick white smoke to cover the troops' advance. (Patrick Baz/AFP/Getty Images) As the Israeli army stormed to the edges of Gaza City and the Palestinian death toll topped 500, the tell-tale shells could be seen spreading tentacles of thick white smoke to cover the troops' advance. "These explosions are fantastic looking, and produce a great deal of smoke that blinds the enemy so that our forces can move in," said one Israeli security expert. Burning blobs of phosphorus would cause severe injuries to anyone caught beneath them and force would-be snipers or operators of remote-controlled booby traps to take cover. Israel admitted using white phosphorus during its 2006 war with Lebanon.
The use of the weapon in the Gaza Strip, one of the world's mostly densely population areas, is likely to ignite yet more controversy over Israel's offensive, in which more than 2,300 Palestinians have been wounded.
The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas, but there is no blanket ban under international law on its use as a smokescreen or for illumination. However, Charles Heyman, a military expert and former major in the British Army, said: "If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague. White phosphorus is also a terror weapon. The descending blobs of phosphorus will burn when in contact with skin."
The Israeli military last night denied using phosphorus, but refused to say what had been deployed. "Israel uses munitions that are allowed for under international law," said Captain Ishai David, spokesman for the Israel Defence Forces. "We are pressing ahead with the second stage of operations, entering troops in the Gaza Strip to seize areas from which rockets are being launched into Israel."
The civilian toll in the first 24 hours of the ground offensive - launched after a week of bombardment from air, land and sea- was at least 64 dead. Among those killed were five members of a family who died when an Israeli tank shell hit their car and a paramedic who died when a tank blasted his ambulance. Doctors at Gaza City's main hospital said many women and children were among the dead and wounded.
The Israeli army also suffered its first fatality of the offensive when one of its soldiers was killed by mortar fire. More than 30 soldiers were wounded by mortars, mines and sniper fire.
Israel has brushed aside calls for a ceasefire to allow humanitarian aid into the besieged territory, where medical supplies are running short.
With increasingly angry anti-Israeli protests spreading around the world, Gordon Brown described the violence in Gaza as "a dangerous moment".
White phosphorus: the smoke-screen chemical that can burn to the bone
- White phosphorus bursts into a deep-yellow flame when it is exposed to oxygen, producing a thick white smoke
- It is used as a smokescreen or for incendiary devices, but can also be deployed as an anti-personnel flame compound capable of causing potentially fatal burns
- Phosphorus burns are almost always second or third-degree because the particles do not stop burning on contact with skin until they have entirely disappeared - it is not unknown for them to reach the bone
- Geneva conventions ban the use of phosphorus as an offensive weapon against civilians, but its use as a smokescreen is not prohibited by international law
- Israel previously used white phosphorus during its war with Lebanon in 2006
- It has been used frequently by British and US forces in recent wars, notably during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Its use was criticised widely
- White phosphorus has the slang name "Willy Pete", which dates from the First World War. It was commonly used in the Vietnam era
Source: Times archives
- Posted in
241 Comments so far
Show AllPhosphorous bombs are the equivalent of Napalm. The intention is to inflict severe burns on civilians and to terrorise them.
No, they are not.
Napalm is used as a weapon.
Willy Pete is not a weapon. (when it is used by the US or Israel)
We use the same thing in Iraq. We only used it for marking targets. Not for terrorizing civilians.
Israel's use of it, as a smoke screen, is perfectly legal under international law.
It's equivalent to riot-control sprays or smoke screens.
Any security guard at the mall could create a similar effect by emptying several cans of pepper spray into a fine mist.
For a bit of insight, I suggest that all who consider themselves true progressives go into the commondreams archives and read some of "joehope"s previous posts.
Surely you will agree with me that he is an agent provocateur.
Every one of his posts have been contrary to the prevailing theme of the posts, and is meant to place a little question mark in the minds of those of us who really DO know the truth. (And I'm not at all arrogant. It's just that anyone with a modicum of self-knowledge and integrity can spot- or smell- bullshit miles away.)
So please crawl back under your rock, Mr. Hope. I'm sure you'll be more comfortable with your kind there, anyway.
SpiritWarrior,
Why am I an "agent provocateur" for simply having my own opinion?
Am I not allowed to have contrary opinions?
I certainly have my own doubts about much of the Israel and Obama-bashing that goes on here. But I don't result to peddling paranoid conspiracies about them. If I did, I would ask if you were trying to intimidate everyone into thinking the way you do. But honestly, you're probably just paranoid or confused.
Ever wonder what people are referring to when they talk about "liberal elitism"? It when ordinary guys like me, are told that our opinions are worthless, because we don't agree with every word coming out of Noam Chomsky's or Rev. Wright's mouth. There are plenty of progressives who don't fit the mold. For example, Juan Cole initially supported both the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. But his position was nuanced, it wasn't popular, but it was well informed. No one called him a shill for Bush, because he's respected, he's an academic. I'm a nobody! I'm just a guy. So I get called a "shill".
Here is a suggestion for you, go read the comments in any mainstream newspaper. Are they all ""agent provocateurs"?
The people here who post on CD (often) represent the most extreme left-wing positions in the country. The comments are (often) considerably more extreme and further to the Left than the authors or editors of the site.
That I have my disagreements with many of them shouldn't be surprising.
What I find so disheartening is that instead our having a reasonable and rational exchange of ideas based around our differences of opinion, I just get insulted.
People have called me, a shill, a troll, a monster, a Nazi, a republican, KKK, even a member of Storm Front. I have had both my religion and ethnicity insulted and mocked. Is this how the progressive community deals with differences of opinion?
Look, let's drop the paranoia. I'm not a boogie man. I'm just a guy. In fact, I'm pretty ordinary. I happen to like bowling. My favorite movie is "Forrest Gump". I can't miss an episode of "Lost" or "24". I actually find "Garfield" and "Ziggy" amusing. I have every album by the Beach Boys. I go to church. I'm a Christian. I'm a progressive. I'm a Jew. I'm a freethinker. I have my own opinions. Why is that so mysterious. Do I sound like an "agent provocateur"? Well, fine. I could use the excitement. It beats admitting I work at Home Depot. Besides, I always like Bond movies...
Like many of you, I like debate. Sometimes I'll post a thank you for an article, or express that I liked someone's comment. But I admit, I think contentious conversations are often illuminating.
Incidentally, the way I think, my opinions and my values, aren't really any different from Obama's values. How many of you people calling me a "shill" voted for Obama? Remember his mandate? How many millions of people think just like I do?
BTW,
Spirit Warrior's last exchange with me ended with,
"So, joehope, although you might say that I'm not particularly articulate, I believe the intent of my words come through loud and clear.
F*ck you, joehope."
This is exactly the sort of behavior I'm talking about.
Your intent, to insult me, to degrade me, to hurt my feelings - is clear.
It's just extremely juvenile and mean.
.Whether intentional or otherwise your posts are not exactly models of centrism or even fairness. When your assumptions and beliefs are confronted you distort the intent of the poster as you did when you accused me of allowing Hussein to "continue to possess WMD's", an absurd statement at best as time has proven he had no such weaponry, no infrastructure to support such nor industry to make them. Neither did my post show any such leanings .
Now you minimize the danger of white phosphorus, which, those who read and actually care for truth understand is banned in civilian areas by the Geneva Convention.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/833585-overview
As the article itself notes:
"The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas, but there is no blanket ban under international law on its use as a smokescreen or for illumination. However, Charles Heyman, a military expert and former major in the British Army, said: “If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague. White phosphorus is also a terror weapon. The descending blobs of phosphorus will burn when in contact with skin.”
It may be true that incivility is never acceptable but there are those, and you are not the most extreme case here but you are in that line, who care little for truth or honesty. You may ride your high horse all you wish but your posts provoke at best and lie at worst. Every post of yours brings a vivid mental image of a smirking face.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
abdosoliman46
If it is used by US in Iraq It must be OK to use in Gaza, as a matter of equal opportunity all Arabs have the right to inhale phosphorus powder that burn your lung better than the best hookah, narjilla, and it is free inhale as much as you can, it is ordered by morally bankrupt politician paid by credit to our empty treasury.
No! The U.S. used WP as a weapon of war in "shake and bake" operations against "insurgents" which is a crime against humanity:
"Bogert received coordinates of the target, plotted them on a map and called out the settings for the gun they call "Sarah Lee."
Millikin, 21, from Reno, Nev., and Alexander, 23, from Wetumpka, Ala., quickly made the adjustments. They are good at what they do.
"Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.
"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.
The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week.
They say they have never seen what they've hit, nor did they talk about it as they dusted off their breakfast and continued their hilarious routine of personal insults and name-calling."
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/04/11/military/iraq/19_30_504_10_04.txt
See also:
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/fair-ny-times-responds-on-fallujah-weapons
http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah/
Who exactly is "we?" Are you a U.S. or Israelis government employee JoeHope?
hootowl,
U.S. forces have used WP very sparingly in Iraq for illumination purposes. They were fired into the air for screening purposes, i.e., obscuring troop movements WP use is legal for purposes such as illumination and obscuring smoke. WP is not banned under the Geneva Convention and is not listed under the Chemical Weapons Convention.
"No it's not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement.
If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the convention legitimate use."
- Peter Kaiser, spokesman for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (an organization overseeing the CWC and reporting directly to the UN General Assembly)
Now you are lying JoeHope. What part of:
""Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.
"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.
The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week."
do you fail to understand? They are firing WP into a building with people in it to "shake and bake" them a blatant war crime.
Link given above to mainstream newspaper. And here I thought I was making progress with you, sigh!
to read an article about the emerging conflict in Gaza see...
http://globalinvestmentwatch.com/2009/01/04/israel-the-caged-animals-must-be-punished/
That article touches on a key point and why I think Israel has made a tactical error, if you put yourself in the Palestinans shoes, what would YOU do? Even Ben Gurion said, of couse they hate us, we stole their land. So how do you comdemn a whole people because of where they happened to be born. The same goes for the Israelis, but their relentless land grab of the West Bank sort of loses them a lot of credibility. People are starting to come up to me, because they know I have been 'babbling about this subject forever, and are actually asking me to explain some things.
No they are not not David, not if it is fired and used as a smokescreen. An airburst, as shown in the photos of WP burns very hot and the smoke it creates is hot enough to fool thermal imaging sights that Hamas uses (and every military on the planet). If Israel used regular chemical smoke, Hamas would be able to see their movements through it with the right equipment. This insures the safety of Israeli soldiers. It is not a terror weapon if it is not fired at ground targets with a ground burst at a civilain target with the intention of causing casualties.
You can honestly tell me that Hamas has extensive access to all that 'right' equipment?
I do believe that a modern, well-funded army may well have such access.
But Hamas?
Give me a break.
If they had that kind of money they'd surely use it to improve the targeting capability of their missiles...or even just use it to buy many hundreds of thousands more AK-47's so they could actually put up a serious resistance to this massacre.
Thermal imaging devices are not that expensive, and are used extensively by fire departments throughout the world. Given Hamas' involvement in investing in social infrastructure, I would not be surprised if Gaza has reasonably-well equipped fire departments. But I don't really know. I did some research but could not find anything on the state of readiness of Gazan fire departments.
But as you point out.
They have rather primitive weaponry to employ against the Israelis.
This must either be because they are spending their money on non-military things... (fire departments with heat-sensitive goggles aren't really equipped to deal with an invasion force).
Or they do not have a lot of money at all and they cannot even afford what you term 'inexpensive' equipment.
Given the very long blockade of Gaza and continuing humiliation, indeed, the Israelis and the USA withheld the money that was agreed by treaty to pay for the Palestinian government when Hamas was elected in a free and fair election (according to the UN)!
Given this long history I would have a hard time believing that their armed forces or police, such as it is, could pose any kind of honest threat against the Israelis even if the invaders used no smoke at all.
And I'm sure the women and children, the old and infirm, and the ambulance staff are even less likely to be so equipped.
But you supply some good information here, so keep it up!
First of all, I do not know what "heat-sensitive goggles" are. Does that mean they melt when exposed to heat?
Thermal imaging equipment as used by US and European fire departments are hand-held, shaped and sized like a bar-code scanner with a small LED screen measuring around 4"x4". Not at all useful in a fire-fight, but very useful when searching for bodies in a smoke-filled room. Israel probably searches all shipments into Gaza. I do not know if they would remove life-saving equipment destined for a Gazan fire department (or hospital, etc).
My point here is that Hamas does not spend all its money on weaponry. They have extensive social programs (which is the reason why they received a majority of votes in the recent democratically-held election) which means they spend money on social infrastructure (unlike the US). I don't know, but I would hope that the Gazans have decent fire-fighting equipment. After all, they need it! And if the Israelis do allow life-saving equipment through the blockade, there are plenty of organizations around the world dedicated to donating fire-fighting equipment to needy departments.
AK-47s are pretty useless against tanks and air strikes. Of course, the NRA and gun wingnuts will say otherwise.
The Palestinians use Qassam and the longer-range Katyusha rockets, which are based on a 1938 Russian design. They have zero capability for targeting (other than line-of-site pointing). The reason why these simple rockets are used is because they can be fabricated in any garage or small workshop with common materials. There is no way Gazan's would have access to more advanced targeting technologies.
Goose, Gaza is little more than a walled in concentration camp. The closest historical equivalent was the Warsaw Ghetto in World War Two - amazing that people who suffered the Holocaust could visit a similar terror on others. I wonder if you could tell me what smokescreen Hitler used then?
Don't be so surprised, it's amazing that someone who suffered physical and sexual abuse as a child would end up as a child abuser but that's how it usually works.
That's my theory as well that extremist Zionists like Goose Step suffer from extended Stockholm syndrome viz a vie the Nazis.
All the pictures released so far of WP over Gaza is that the munitions were exploded in DAYLIGHT. While thermal-imaging devices could be of some use if the smoke was extremely thick, their effectiveness out-doors and in daylight is debatable.
You are so cold and evil Goose step and it is all too obvious Jews like you suffer from extended Stockholm syndrome from the Holocaust. Have you seen the photos from Fallujah of what bing burned to death by phosphorus looks like? It is not pretty I assure you,
See my response further up the page. The US has admitted that it used WP as a weapon (not a smokescreen) during operations in Falluja in 2004.
Israel used WP as a weapon during its 2006 invasion of Lebanon.
Why should the IDF start using WP in a different role now?
Can we try it on you or your kids?
Joe
I simply cannot believe in any stretch of the imagination that the military machine at Israel's disposal needs to use these terror weapons to achieve their objectives.
Are they trying to tell me that their are NO other ways of generating smoke?
Bull. pure and utter Bull.
I'm surprised they haven't tried Zyclon-B gas yet.
Thta is why people are saying Warsaw ghetto, and Guernica. I notice the Zionist shills are quiet in this item, perhaps this is too disgusting even for them to stomach, or there is no Hasbara talking point, or they moved on to digg or another discussion forum? From what I see Zionist shills dispatched by giyus.com move in packs so perhaps they are truly gone, at least for now.
hootowl,
If people like myself are "Zionist shills" JUST because we support allowing Israel to exist, do you consider yourself a Nader-shill or a McKinney-shill, or a LaRouche-shill?
Everyone who compare Israelis to Nazis is simply exposing themselves as antisemitic Jew-hating racists.
As a Jew, I take this personally.
And here, I actually thought the world was becoming a more tolerant place, more respectful of diversity...
Geez, was I ever wrong.
Since Gaza was invaded, the racists have really come crawling out of the woodwork. Posters and authors I used to respect have since shown their true colors.
Can you imagine what some your comments sound like to me?
To put it in a different context, you sound like Klan rally shouting "lynch the N****rs"! Kill them all!!!"
I'm really disappointed in the progressive community. Sometimes it becomes so dominated by group think and egomania that the truth becomes obscured. The progressive community must stand for peace, justice, and human rights at all times. We cannot under any circumstances support terrorist groups like Hamas. We shouldn't compromise our values.
I have no problem with Jewish people from Bob Dylan and Itzahk Perlman to Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman, I have a great deal of problem fro people who shill for government crimes whether they are the crime of illegal war of invasion of Iraq like the U.S. government committed or Israel's current butchering of a trapped people people almost half of whom are children. Even Jon Stewart hardly a radical and himself of Jewish descent was decrying the unbalanced coverage of this conflict tonight on the Daily Show.
It is not "anti American" to question the policies of the U.S. government as hard rightists here in the U.S. claim and it's not anti Semitic to call for Israel to stop butchering people and to retreat to it's legal borders. These are certainly modest demands say compared to war crimes tribunals for Israel's leadership, or dissolving the state of Israel entirely. The whole world as represented by the U.N. has been calling for Israel to retreat to it's legal border for decades, isn't it time already?
Zionist shills (that is what you are) need to stop crying wolf every time someone criticizes Israel's crimes and you need to save that cry for real anti Semites like people who quote the fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or real Nazis, or the KKK. All you do by using the cry of anti Semitism inaccurately against good hearted leftist criticizing Israelis GOVERNMENT policy is dilute the power of the rightly very serious charge of anti Semitism. It isn't helping Zionists to make their case to cry "anti Semite" and "self hating Jew" every 5 minutes I assure you. Someone who advocates for a state that based on the ethnic criteria of "Jewishness" with "Jewish only" roads and racist marriage laws is more than a little disngenious complaining oh so loudly about "racism as well IMO.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/racist-marriage-law-upheld-by-israel-478291.html
Finally I ask you JoeHope where is Israel's border? Account for religious extremist settlers demand for a "greater Israel," the illegal under international law "separation wall,"
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/7/9/world_court_to_israel_tear_down
the role of occupying troops and "Jewish only" roads (talk about racist) and the current settlements in the West Bank in your answer. Thanks!
hootowl,
Look, I agree that the border issue is problematic. The settlers are often extremists. But if you are accusing me of being one-sided, to be fair, I could just as easily accuse you of the same. You won't admit that the main reason the border is a problem, besides the settlers, is terrorism. The Israelis were tired of having their discos and pizzerias attacked by suicide bombers. So they had no real choice but to put up security fences, roadblocks and blast walls in sensitive areas. The situation requires more nuance than you are providing.
Why is Israel a Jewish State? Why is that important? Well, first of all, it's more than a Jewish State, it's a democracy with equal rights for all. Don't forget that Israel has a sizable Palestinian population. But the reason it's important that it remain a Jewish State is because it is the homeland of the Jewish People. The Jewish people have been refugees for thousands of years. We are native to Israel in the same way the Cherokee are native to the eastern and southeastern United States. And then there is the issue of the Holocaust. After WII many European Jews simply no longer felt safe in Europe (can you blame them?) so this made the concept of Zionism more appealing.
Since I politely replied to your question regarding Israel's border and Jewish identity, would you mind answering a question for me?
Why do you support Hamas? Look at what they are teaching children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tneSE6nJiLw
At least we both like Jon Stewart and the Daily Show.
Also, I'm not saying it's "anti American" to question the policies of the U.S. government. And I'm not saying that it's antisemitic to criticize Israel. Israel is a democracy with free speech after all. But to call for the destruction of Israel or Zionism (the words are synonymous) is advocating genocide. That is unacceptable. Do you disagree?
Besides that, there has also been a lot of vague talk of Jewish conspiracies which I find to be forms of antisemitism. Do you disagree?
If I am a "Zionist shill" then what is the difference between me and a Zionist supporter? Can't I just be Pro-Zionist? Why use all the hyperbole?
Please, can't we have a civil dialogue?
First thanks for questioning the settlers for IMO religious extremist settlers are are at the very heart of the problem. Move the settlers back inside the green line and I honestly think 90% of the problem is solved. Once Palestine can be started as two contiguous non occupied states IMO Hamas will have far less appeal to a people building a new society. If people are moving ahead and engaged in constructive projects IMO the hatred and fear that motivates terrorism will diminish considerably. And if it doesn't and terrorists STILL attack you when Israel is in compliance with international law, THEN I wish the IDF the best of luck hunting down terrorist criminals. OTOH frankly I think at this point Israel has no case to attack people when it is illegally occupying land and blockading the long suffering population of Gaza. So yes Israel does have a right to security WITHIN its legal borders. As I have said here before I would have no problem with a security wall WITHIN the green line. The current land grabbing security wall is a non starter however, as are the illegal settlements.
The reason I have called you and your cohorts "shills" is you are trying to justify the painful killing of dozens of children and other civilians in Gaza. That makes me ANGRY which I won't apologize for, I frankly think anger is a natural reaction from anyone still possessing a conscience to a full on military assault on over million people who have no regular military to fight back with. That isn't a war it's a massacre, very similar to our own dishonorable massacre of Native Americans in the 19th century. It is my sincere hope that we evolve and leave massacring the natives to the history books, but obviously the government of Israel or the U.S. isn't there yet.
And I don't support Hamas I think their feeble rocket attacks are extremely counter productive, but I do understand how a blockaded people might come to the point where any gesture of defiance comes to be acceptable in THEIR minds. If Israel fails to put itself in its "enemies" shoes to try to understand why they might be frustrated enough to lash out with primitive rockets Israel will never advance to the moral level necessary to retreat and live side by side in peace with their Palestinian neighbors.
If you stop just repeating Hasbara talking points and talk to me like a human being like you seem to have attempted just now, I'll stop calling you a shill, more scripted talking points and you get a called a shill again, deal?
Thanks too for finally getting around to answering this question. May I ask why it took 48 hours?
But you are not a Jew by own admission.
I say to all the people who are supporting the Israelis, both in the United States and abroad, bring the Palestineans to the United States and to the other countries who think that Isreal is in the right. Then, Isreal can have the Gaza strip and the Palestineans will be safe.
Good point!
But would they leave?
I suspect not. After all, God Promised them the land too.
And that's ultimately where the radicalization of that whole region comes from...from a group of people who think it is OK to steal, kill, and break all sensible moral codes because of what they think God tells them.
And I'm afraid that is as much a theme with the Palestinian radicals as it is with the Israeli radicals.
and let's not forget 'george wanker bush' who also believes god tells him things...
petsr4ever
I don't think so. I think the U.S. should bring all the Jews into the U.S. and then the American people can have a taste of their own medicine. The Jews are illegal occupiers of this land. Bring them to the U.S. and give them all those nice houses that have been foreclosed. They own our government anyways!!
Have you forgotten that the forced transfer of a People is genocide?
Are you even aware, in your glibness, that you are advocating genocide against the Jewish People?
Maybe you should tell that FIRST to your Settlers who clamor for a "greater Israel" and who advocate for "transfer" all the time and who are inching their way towards that goal on the ground as we speak. Are you man enough to admit that the crime you decry ALSO applies to religious zealots in Israel?
And while I am at it, where is Israel's border EXACTLY? it's now over 48 hours and none of the Hasbara reading Zionist talking points apologists have been able to answer that crucial question.
I agree the Settlers are a problem. But they are hard to control.
First thanks for admitting that.
Second does it ever occur to Israel's supporters that in terms of a long range solution Israel controlling their own settlers and preparing for a viable two state solution would save FAR more lives on both sides than just raining cluster bombs and white phosphorus on 1.5 million people, almost half of whom are children?
ALL israel's current action is doing is breeding future terorists.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/05/gaza.children/index.html
Not only is it brutal, it's counterproductive and ironically counterproductive in almost EXACTLY the same way as Hamas's futile rockets whom you deplore, only on an even bigger scale. In anyone on either side thinking long range strategy towards peace or only battlefield tactics?
I know it's not that important, but you really don't know how to spell 'Palestinian 'by now? Really?
Yes, or bring the Israeli's here...give them New Mexico or Nevada...states with similar climates and topography to Israel, right? Let's settle it once and for all. Or perhaps we should find the state with the largest number of Israeli supporters and give IT to the Israeli's? They surely will not mind giving up their homes to people from Israel. They surely will understand that the Israeli's need a home and will willingly give up theirs!!
Within a few years the Israelis would be amassing troops, tanks and artillery on the border with Arizona or California.
NO! NO! NO! NO NO When I just finished art, listing Guernica, Warsaw, Fallujah, Gaza, I wasn't expecting it to be with white phosphorus like Fallujah. This has to be stopped. Just in case there's one person who doesn't remember: the US military used white phosphorus in Fallujah. For results, see Dahr Jamail's blog or google his name on DemocracyNow www.democracynow.org www.dahrjamailiraq.com The Answer coalition is having a march in Washington on next Sat. Jan.10, google:the answer coalition. It's first up. I'm having trouble typing the url. (edit:See ursa's comment,just above, she got the url for me/us.) White phosphorous is a war crime as used by the US in Fallujah and now Israel.
(I'm old enough to remember seeing the little girl's photo in the NYTimes, "real time", on fire with napalm, running down the road in Vietnam. Napalm is a cousin of white phosphorous. The girl lived, grew up, has pain all the time, has two kids. For those who talk "smoke screen", read Dahr Jamail's blog or go to DemocracyNow to learn about charred civilians. Fallujah was covered by Italian television and on DemocracyNow.) P.S. I'm a Jew. I am an American. I am upset on a deep level. I also know that a government, a state, is not "people". Nation states disregard their citizens when they can, as we know, as Americans. Days ago, 45% of Israelis were against the bombing of Gaza, and the invasion. 10,000 Israelis protested.
"Napalm is a cousin of white phosphorous."
Napalm is "jellied" gasoline. Phosphorus is, well, phosphorus. Vastly different chemically. Either one will have similar effects on humans, and both should be banned for ANY purpose, whether for "illumination" or for purposes of terror.
Jews in Israel are allowed to speak out, whether in person or in the press, vastly more so than anyone in the U.S. Thanks to AIPAC, JDL, JINSA and that ilk, if a "goy" in the U.S. speaks out against Israel, he or she is an anti-semite, and if a Jew in the U.S. speaks out against Israel, she or he is a "self-hating Jew".
-- ekaton aka d.k.shaw
Hooray http://www.alternativenews.org/ is back up!
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Ursa
Remind Washington that you are the voter. Even though you may feel like a peasant, you still have some control. Let them know how you feel.
Write to your editor of your local Newspaper
Write your representative
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml
Write your Senator
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Contact Obama
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/contact/
ursa:Thanks. My skills are still too new, although I'm older. I can't figure out how to type the url (I can't move a link) for the A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition, but if one types "the answer coalition" on google, it's the first listing.) Can you help me? thanks. See my comment. There's a demo in Washington DC on Jan.10.
Ursa
NYCartist, Thanks for the website
http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_homepage
ursa:thanks so much. I just feel like screaming, so I did it in art. And on here.
Before I forget to say it, again: for me, the most reliable source for news is WBAI 99.5FM, the NYC Pacifica Network radio station. DemocracyNow, now independent, began on WBAI. The WBAI news is reliable, as is Free Speech Radio News, which is an independent news show by journalists, a collective. Links: www.wbai.org shows are archived for 90days,free. Evening news,daily weekdays, and a Sun.evening news. As well as many news content shows, such as "Wake Up Call" in the morning. "Talk Back" in the afternoon. Live stream also.
www.pacifica.org
www.fsrn.org
Check out those websites. Don't forget DemocracyNow, which I hear on WBAI, www.democracynow.org Also, Pacifica has the most remarkable radio archives, some with transcripts:visit the website www.pacificaradioarchives.org All are noncommercial,community support independent media outlets. Free, like CommonDreams, for me,"the hub" for articles.