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Today's Top News
'Eight Civilians Killed' in Israeli 'Surgical' Strike on Truck
• Israelis display bombing of 'missiles' on YouTube • Rights group calls for inquiry into alleged error
An Israeli human rights group said yesterday it was investigating claims that an apparent surgical strike on a Hamas missile truck in Gaza, which is being publicized by Israel's armed forces on its website, is a case of mistaken targeting that has left eight civilians dead.
Photo from Army footage of the loading of the truck and photo of the oxygen canisters left next to the truck taken by B'Tselem fieldworker. Monochrome images of the attack have been repeatedly shown by media around the world after being released by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) to demonstrate both the accuracy of their attacks and that Hamas was trying to move and hide rockets. The footage was also posted on the Israeli military's YouTube site.
However, the Israeli-Palestinian B'Tselem group in Gaza has testimony from the owner of the truck, as well as photographs taken at the scene, which appear to suggest that the vehicle was being used to transport gas welding canisters from a metalworking shop.
The air attack took place at 6pm on Monday in Salah al-Din street in Jabaliya. The grainy thermal imaging footage taken by the Israeli Predator drone that launched the rocket against the truck showed ghostly figures clustered around a vehicle loaded with what the Israeli airforce described as missiles being moved to a safe hiding place by Hamas fighters.
According to testimony supplied by truck owner Abu Imad-Sanur, members of his family had been trying to salvage material from a metal workshop he owns next door to a bombed house. The canisters, he claimed, were being moved to prevent looting.
He named the dead as Muhammad Bassel Madi, 17, Wisam Akram Eid, 14, Imad Ahmad Sanur, 32, Rami Sa'adi Ghabayan, 24, Mahmoud Nabil Ghabayan, 14, Ashraf al-Dabagh, 26, Muhammad Majed Ka'abar, 20, and Ahmad Ibrahim Khila, 15. Imad-Sanur denies any connections with militant organizations in the Gaza Strip that have been blamed for targeting Israeli towns with rockets.
The pictures released by B'Tselem yesterday - which it says were taken at the site - show the burnt-out wreckage of a truck that appears to have been loaded with scrap metal and gas welding tanks, with the gas valves still attached. An undamaged tank, apparently thrown out of the vehicle by the explosion, is identical in shape to the burned ones.
"I own a metalworks near the Palestinian Red Cross,' said Imad-Sanur in his testimony. "On Monday I was told a metalworking shop had been blown up, so I collected my sons to go there. When we arrived we saw that the house next door [understood to belong to a Hamas official] had been completely destroyed. There was a 10-metre-deep crater. Some of the walls had caved in into my shop.
"I was afraid people would steal my stuff and decided to move it."
It was while his son Imad was directing the loading of the second truckload that it was hit while Imad-Sanur - who suffers from asthma - was standing across the road to avoid the dust. "Friends and neighbours had come to help. Imad was standing on the truck. Suddenly I saw a huge flash and heard a booming sound. I started running and saw bodies everywhere. One of them was Imad. That was when I fainted."
Imad-Sanur told the Guardian yesterday: "I'm not satisfied with what's going on. Please, we want peace. Who wants his children to die? Who hates peace? The Israeli account is absolutely wrong. The pickup is still there and the oxygen cylinder is still next to it. Anyone can come and look at it."
Sarit Michaeli, a spokeswoman for B'Tselem, said that while her organisation had not been able to verify Imad-Sanur's claims that he was not involved with militants in Gaza, his story that he was moving welding equipment seemed believable. "What this emphasises is that this incident needs to be investigated by the IDF, lessons learned and if necessary people retrained. It is impossible to avoid civilian casualties, but in this case it is clear that an investigation is required."
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49 Comments so far
Show AllHe cocks...you have been living in a cave? What would you do if your held in a siege? Israel is committing wholesale murder...with US taxpayers financing? Why is it ok for the US to help ISrael murder and steal but not ok for other countries to help the Palestinians? You bloody sick racist fool!
This seems destined to go on forever. Hamas was elected to govern Palestine in what the world said was a free and fair election. What the Palestinians didn't realize was that the election was held so the Palestinians could elect the people that Israel and the US wanted in power. When they chose Hamas, Hamas was given no opportunity to see whether they could rise to the occasion. The Palestinians were immediately bombed and starved until they would reject their choice and do what they were told.
That left little choice for Hamas but to go on fighting as they had for so long. The Israeli Government should have learned from their own history that oppressed people fight back. The young Jews in the Warsaw ghetto fought back with stolen weapons, IEDs, the knife in the dark, and held the Wehrmacht off for a long time, regardless of barbaric retaliation, etc. Finally, the Army wiped out the ghetto with overwhelming firepower and sent the survivors off to the death camps.
Instead of learning this lesson, they seem to have learned the Nazi lesson. If you can kill enough of them, you'll have little problem eliminating the rest.
As with the young Jew in the Warsaw ghetto, the young Palestinian in the Gaza ghetto has little or no hope, no future. He has had at least part of his family killed, or dead from disease, hunger and thirst. He has little or no chance for a job, an education. He, his home or hovel, and his family is a target at any time of the day or night for bombing, strafing or bulldozing. A young kid, throwing a rock at a passing tank, may well be machine gunned. What incentive is there for him not to strap on a gelignite vest and take a few of the oppressors with him?
If there is no one on either side with enough empathy to put himself in the other's place, to feel and understand what is happening; to relearn the lost arts of diplomacy and discussion, to learn compromise, then the slaughter will continue, for until the Palestinians have a reason to hope, they will continue to fight back and the Israelis will use that as an excuse to slaughter.
Israel used Hamas in the past to fight the PLO. Now the Palestinians have democratically voted in Hamas because they supply the necessities for their survival.
So Hamas has come back to bite the Israelis in the butt. And so it goes.
Here's another strike against the US love affair with Israel from the Financial Times Dec 31 2008.
US Man (Ben Ami Kadish) admits spying for Israel for supplying Israel with US missile defense and other military secrets. He will be sentenced next month in NY.
Here's a link from Antiwar.com on how the US treats Israeli spies:
http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/12/23/philip-giraldi-18/
The MSM doesn't even feel these stories worthy of publication.
"The FBI suspected that leading neocons Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, and Stephen Bryen were guilty of providing classified information to Israel, but they all avoided prosecution and were later rewarded with senior positions in the Pentagon."
They should be tried as spies and traitors and dealt with accordingly.
As for the weasels who support state-sponsored terrorism (be it Israeli or Palestinian) and hide behind the anonymity of monikers and handles - I have nothing but contempt for them.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
A new warning should be appended to all internet news sources with comment boards -- trolling in support of Israel is official Israeli state propaganda policy, so beware.
These trolls are relentless, tenacious, and extremely obnoxious (if not also well paid or extremely self-deluded), obviously trying to provoke people to anger.
But no one can disguise the sheer barbarity and perversity of what is happening in Gaza.
Paranoia.
How is it that "Progressives" so easily forget that they are an extreme minority with their hatred of Israel. Most American support Israel. Even Obama supports Israel. So why would Israel need to mount a PR campaign on rarely read internet message boards?
Have you run out of aluminum foil to make hats with?
Bzzzt wrong a recent poll shows that 71% of American want the U.S. to remain neutral in the Israel Palestinian conflict, which actually is astounding and hopeful considering the relentless pro Israel propaganda we are bombarded with in the U.S.:
"Poll: 71% of Americans want US to stay neutral on Mideast conflict
Israel enjoys low level of support in 18 countries; support for Palestinians much higher
Yitzhak Benhorin
Published: 07.01.08, 16:56 / Israel News
WASHINGTON - A recent poll conducted by the University of Maryland in 18 countries revealed that 71% of Americans would prefer that the US stay neutral when it comes to the Mideast conflict.
In 13 others countries covered in the poll, respondents also said they wanted their government to remain neutral on the issue. In no country did the majority back the Israeli stand, while those residing in Egypt, Iran and Turkey said they wanted their governments to support the Palestinian side.
The poll, carried out by WorldPublicOpinion.org and University of Maryland questioned a total of 18,792 people and involved research institutes in the 18 countries examined, which included China, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, Britain, France and Russia, among others. Overall, the survey was meant to represent 59% of the world's population.
'Israel plays negative role'
In all 18 countries, respondents gave low grades to all the sides involved in negotiations – Israel, the Palestinians, Arab countries, and the Americans; Israel received the lowest grade. A total of 54% of respondents said Israel does not fill a positive role in the peace process, while only 22% said it was conducting itself properly. Overall, 59% of Americans said Israel was not doing enough, figures that contradict other polls showing solid support for Israel's positions."
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3562679,00.html
It's ynet so the article must be written by self hating Jews in Israel right? After all only "self hating" Jews dare questions Israel's butchery, right?
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3028645,00.html
joehope will not counter your post, hootowl - at least, not with any intelligible reply. He's hopeless.
"It is not true that life is one damn thing after another - it's one damn thing over and over." -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
Joehope is a very suspicious. The fact that such a fervent Obama supporter is this forum's latest right-wing troll de mois, does not reflect very well on Obama at all.
---USAn---
"71% of American want the U.S. to remain neutral in the Israel Palestinian conflict"
Ted Markow, PDJ, and Hootowl,
We ARE remaining neutral. We haven't deployed any forces.
Obama hasn't really made any new statements, and the statements made on his behalf by his advisers (such as David Axlerod) have been very prudent.
I think we can express support for Israel's right to defend herself without violating our neutral in the military aspects of the conflict. I don't see that as a contradiction.
BTW you Obama-haters are beginning to sound like a gang of schoolyard bullies.
joehope: "Even Obama supports Israel." Be that as it may, it doesn't make it right.
I don't think most of them are paid, my guess is that they are members of Zionist clubs at Universities with copies of MEGAPHONE and the Hasbara book. That doesn't make them any less obnoxious for defending Israel's crimes.
Trolls in support of Israel are lying weasels and should be totally ignored.
It is amazing that one side can justify the behavior that they deem 'necessary to defend themselves' even if it sheds innocent blood. When the "other side" does the same however, it is barbaric, savage, etc, etc.
The other amazing aspect is that "either side" is always able to "legitimize" their actions, while those who are actually responsible are able to "pass the blame along", that can either be "UP" as with "I was just following orders", to
" God directed me to shed innocent blood, by giving the orders to shed innocent blood, in order to save innocent blood" "well at least OUR innocent blood".
A different approach was revealed in a communication to the email site below. and that was very simply states as this.
No matter what you/them/they/we/us/ believe, there is no excuse for shedding innocent blood. In order to preempt the mental wizards who would argue the point; it may be a good point to think on these terms. If you are the President/Commander in Chief/General (w 1-15) stars, the NCO, the Private, and you shed one drop of innocent blood, you will be tried for murder or at the least, manslaughter.
Human kind may not be able to end war. But to end the shedding of innocent blood when conducting "war"; those who shed it should be held directly responsible. This will require a commitment by "humanity"; but it is not unrealistic even though it will require a considerable amount of participation by millions of people. However, look at it this way. If the majority of people adhere to this, where will the offenders be able to find peace; even a Giant must sleep. Where will they be able to hide from the majority who do not accept that innocent blood must be shed when one group finds offense of a difference with another?
The USA can take the lead, and for the first time in History lead the world by example. Take the Bush administration to the International Court of Justice, and reaffirm the principle of "international jurisdiction" (google it).
That would be a "first". Humanity holding other humans directly responsible for their actions against other human beings in the field of military actions.
If someone kills another with the reckless application of a motor vehicle for example, they are charged in most countries, and tried. If one causes the accidental death of another through carelessness or irresponsible actions they are held responsible. The military should not be different--nor should exceptions be acceptable.
Then find the technician who launched the missile, and then the chain of command who made it possible, and hold them each and everyone responsible for each of the innocent eight civilians killed and then the carnage will end, and human kind will move forward into the possibility reaching full potential.
As it is now they are on their way to self inflicted extinction.
If nothing else try something that has not been tried before--the present approach certainly is a failure, which I am sure all will agree upon.
nurembergrevisited@gmail.com
The Latest count:
412 Palestinians dead
4 Israeli's dead
Over 2,000 Palestinians injured
That is 416 deaths too many
I think we are on the verge of a genocide in Gaza
Since the Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel, it seems that they disagree with you.
Are you defending this horribly asymmetrical killing spree? Do you defend terrorism when it is state-sponsored?
It appears so.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Letto you are a sorry excuse for a human being. Provided that you are really human.
For what it's worth
http://www.yesh-gvul.org/english.html
http://www.newprofile.org/english
http://www.icahd.org/
http://www.yesh-gvul.org/english.html
http://www.newprofile.org/english
http://www.taayush.org/
http://www.batshalom.org/
http://www.alternativenews.org/
Sophie Scholl-The Final Days
Thank you for the links, Sophie.
Amongst the ones you provided, I found this, and it is all I need to know about who is controlling weak minds:
"The Israeli government has created for itself a near monopoly over information coming out of the Gaza Strip. Journalists have been prevented from entering the Gaza Strip already since early November, a move the Foreign Press Association (FPA) in Israel labels “an unprecedented restriction of press freedom.” The FPA filed a petition with the Israeli Supreme Court against this measure, and the petition is scheduled to be ruled on today (31 December).
"The sole “journalists” allowed into the Gaza Strip are Israeli military photographers and writers, several buses of whom are transported into Gaza daily to write about and photograph what Israel wants the world to see, including the passage and distribution of international humanitarian aid. It is on these photographs and information that a majority of the mainstream western press is currently dependent.
"The Israeli military further opened its own YouTube channel, which will broadcast army footage of “precise bombings, aid distribution” and other footage that Israel is interested in propagating."
http://tinyurl.com/8vebhv
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Thursday, January 1, 2009
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - An Israeli warplane dropped a 2,000-pound bomb on the home of one of Hamas' top five decision-makers Thursday, instantly killing him and 18 others, while the Israeli army said troops massed on the Gaza border were ready for any order to invade.
This is like murdering the top Democrat or Republican and his family - and then bragging about it.
The Israelis demand their Palestinean captives bow down to them but Muslems bow only to God. No matter how many are martyred.
The name of your "politician" is Nizar Rayan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Rayan
Some highlight about his "legislation" career:
==============================================
-Rayan mentored suicide bombers.
-He sent his own son on a suicide mission, which also killed two Israelis at Elei Sinai.
- After Hamas ceased suicide bombings against Israel, he advocated for their renewal.
- Rayyan was the director and financier of the Ashdod Port attack, which killed ten people.
- Rayan was one of the architects behind the 2007 Battle of Gaza, in which 400 Palestinian Fatah party members were killed and dozens more Palestinians were tortured and maimed.
- Rayan was fundamentally opposed to the state of Israel. He proclaimed, "We will never recognize Israel. There is nothing called Israel, neither in reality nor in the imagination."
- the day before he was killed and declared: "Our only language with the Jew is through the gun".
===
Rayan was killed in an Israeli Air Force strike on 1 January 2009 during the 2008–2009 Israel-Gaza conflict. A one-ton bomb was dropped on his home killing him and eighteen others, including his four wives and nine of his twelve children.
Rayan and his family were warned by the IDF to leave the house prior to the attacks, but Rayan chose to sacrifice himself and his family and did not leave his house.
According to the Israeli government, Rayan's house served as an arms and ammunition warehouse and as a Hamas communications center at the time of the attack. The Israeli military said that the many secondary explosions were triggered by the weapons stockpile stored within his house
----
The Hamas are not Muslims. They are a new cult that worshop death and hatred.
Isn't the Islam a religion of peace?
Does the Quran permits suicide?
Does the Quran permits killing woman and children?
Does the Quran permits turning Mosques into a missile storage facility as the following pootage prooves?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNKLwPidTQ
There are currently 27 fataawa against Hamas style terrorism.
http://www.fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm
---
What happens in Gaza is not a battle between Israel and Islam. It's a battle between moderates and radicals.
Most of the Muslim world, including Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, are saying that the Hamas is wrong to fire rockets at Israel.
frank tarantino
frank tarantino
the begining of all this is somewhere in this site.
you know what sucks ,is cooking your last bag,and its fucking garbage
i have to deal with what is sacred to me,from all these assholes who want money or worse.
lets start from here.
i have a right to the pursuit of happiness,all you strict constutionalists
would have too agree.
now i know as strict constutionalists,you do not interpt the constution'you are not activist judges,you say.
just what the framers wrote ,a literal interpretation right.
SO WHY THE FUCK DO YOU FUCK WITH MY PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS
AND TO ALL YOU CHRISTIANS OUT THERE ,MADE BY GOD IN HIS DESIGN.
MUSHROOMS AND A FUCKING WEED.
UNTOUCHED BY THE IDIOTIC HANDS OF MAN.
YOU PERSECUT US FOR OUR RELIGION.
WE ARE DECENDANTS OF THE ANCIENT TRIBES
WE USED THESE GIFTS OF GOD IN OUR SACRED RITUALS LONG BEFORE THE WHITE MAN CAME TO OUR LANDS.
DO WE HAVE PROPERTY RITES???????????????
DID WE COME TO YOUR HOME BEARING GIFZS OF FRIENDSHIP,THEN PROCEED TO KILL YOU,USE YOU AS HUNTING TARGETS,CUT YOUR WIFE'S BREASTS OFF AND MAKE A POUCH OUT OF IT.
WHEN YOU FIRST CAME TO OUR LANDS,YOUR MEDICINE MEN TRIED TO MAKE US SUBMIT TO YOUR GOD.
WE INTRODUCED YOU TO OUR MEDICENE MAN AND OUR SACRED ACTUAL DIVINE MANA,
AND YOU SHARED OUR MANA,AND ALL THE WHITE MAN AND ALL THEIR MEDICENE MEN
FELL TO THE GROUND SCREAMING,SCARED,CRYING TO YOUR GOD FOR HELP.
SOME SAW THE LIGHT,AND KNEW THAT OUR MANA WAS MORE POWERFUL,THAN YOUR WINE AND BREAD.
HTEY KNEW WHAT IT WAS,THEY READ ABOUT SUCH THINGS IN THEIR BOOKS.
HTEY KNEW THAT THEY HAD TO DESTROY ALL THE RECORDS OF THIS MANA.
SO THOSE OF THE TRIBE WHO CONVERTED TO THEIR GOD WERE USED AS SLAVES,TO THE WHITE MEDISON MAN.
AND THOSE THAT DID NOT WERE HUNTED LIKE RATS,SAVAGES ,HEATHENS THAT WERE POSSESED BY OYUR DEMON AND HAD TO BE DESTROYED.
THOSE THAT KNEW OF THESE THINGS,KNEW THAT THEY WERE OF THE DIVINE,THE DARKNESS COULD DESTROY IT ,IT WAS OF THE FRUIT THAT HE TALKED ABOUT ,WHEN HE SAID ,DO NOT EAT OF THIS TREE.
IT WAS THE TREE OF LIFE THE TREE OF KNOWELGE.THAT OPENED THE EYES OF THE CHILDREN OF LIGHT.
HE COULD NOT DESTROY THIS TREE,FOR IT WAS HE THAT COULD NOT EAQT OF THIS FRUIT,BECAUSE HE HAD NO LOVE IS HIS HEART.
WHEN HE ATE OF THIS FRUIT,HE SAW HIMSELF,AND HE SCREAMED IN RAGE,FOR HE DID NOT HAVE THE EYE OF HIS BROTHER.
HTIS IS WHY THE WHITE MAN OF TODAY,IS FEARFUL OF THESE DIVINE FRUITS,HE DOES NOT HAVE LOVE IS HIS HEART SO HE IS BLIND.
THE DARK SPERIT WHO TRAPED THE WHITE MAN LONG AGO,WITH HIS BOOK,KNOWS THAT THE CHILDREN OF THE GREAT SPIRIT WILL BE FREE WHEN THEY EAT OF THIS FRUIT.
THE FRUIT WAS HERE FOR OUR TRIBE,WE DO NOT SHARE THIS FRUIT WITH THOSE THAT ARE NOT OF THE TRIBE.
NOT BECAUSE WE ARE SELFISH,BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE DANGEROUS TO THOSE THAT HAVE NO LOVE IN THEIR HEART.
THEY ARE FREE TO EAT OF THIS FRUIT IF THEY FIND IT .
OUR TRIBE WARNS OF THE DANGER,THEN IT IS UP TO YOU TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE LOVE I N YOUR HEART.
THESE WERE GIFTS OF THE GREAT SPIRIT,PLACED IN OUR LANDS.
IT WAS YOU WHO CAME TO OUR LANDS,AND DESTROYED THE GIFTS OF THE GREAT SPIRIT.
THEY WERE NOT MENT FOR YOU .JUST LIKE YOUR GIFT OF FIREWATER WAS NOT FOR OUR TRI BE.
I SAY TO YOU NOW,,THAT THE GREAT SPIRIT DOESW NOT LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE,TO OUR GREAT MOTHER,TO THE SPIRITS OF THE TREES ,THE WIND
`````````````` by the way my indian name is huracon,big wind.i am known in the east as tyfu, big wind.
so i say to you that the spirits of the great spirit,will come soon
listen to what huricon speaks because he loves the spirit of the woman,of your tribe, so he has come first to tell you of the dark spirit,and free you of the viel of darkness so you can see what you did through him to our tribe.
the great mother tries to speak but you have poisoned her voice.
the great spirit and the tribe do not care ,
what will be will be,redemption is in your hands.
huricon will show you the way,then it is your destiny
"What this emphasises is that this incident needs to be investigated by the IDF, lessons learned and if necessary people retrained."
You can retrain "dear leaders" in the Likud and while you're at it, retrain the school faculties and change the curricula to teach the kids to respect the rule of law and to shun capitalism, militarism and the "might makes right" type principles, ehh? Get to work!
The Likud is not part of the Israeli Government.
This is like saying the Republican Party is not part of the American government.
You are splitting hairs in a very deceptive manner. However, I would expect no less from you.
From Wikipedia:
"Likud (Hebrew: ליכוד, lit. Consolidation) is the major centre-right political party in Israel. Founded in 1973 as an alliance of several right-wing and liberal parties, Likud's victory in the 1977 elections was a major turning point in the country's political history, marking the first time the left had lost power. However, after ruling the country for most of the 1980s, the party has won only one Knesset election since 1992, though its candidate, Binyamin Netanyahu, did win the popular vote for Prime Minister in 1996."
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
Those weren't people, they were collateral damage. That's the term of art for unarmed individuals we kill. Somehow in our moral calculus they count for nothing.
Alex
"Letto January 2nd, 2009 4:24 am
The Hamas are not Muslims. They are a new cult that worshop death and hatred.
Isn't the Islam a religion of peace?
Does the Quran permits suicide?
Does the Quran permits killing woman and children?"
THAT'S ALL BUNK. Hamas is not a cult worshipping "death and hatred"; but Israeli leadership is, and has been for the past 60 years or more. Hamas formed for defence against death and blood-cult Israeli leadership, these genocidal psychopaths. Hamas continues to represent defence, but while having awfully little means to be able to put defence into real or serious effect. Hamas doesn't permit killing women and children, but Letto hasn't turned on his or her lights yet, or is just another Zionist supporter, or simply has blind hatred for Hamas and is willing to repeat the lies of others against Hamas just because doing so suits his or her own blind hatred.
Letto:
"Does the Quran permits turning Mosques into a missile storage facility as the following pootage prooves?"
THE VIDEO doesn't prove anything; nothing at all clear about it, except that there were some explosions.
Letto:
"There are currently 27 fataawa against Hamas style terrorism."
The fatwa-online.com page Letto linked to is for "Terrorism and Suicide bombings", and it's not Hamas that started suicide bombings; just that Hamas has recently called for such acts to be committed, yet without repeating this many times. Hamas doing it now is understandable, humanly, just that it's a call I disagree with. Hamas never initiated the Palestinian suicide bombings though, again; and when they were committed, it was always due to the totally criminal, extreme, hegemonic, hypocritical, psychopath Israeli government and military aggressors. So, again, it's humanly understandable that some people in Hamas have called for suicide bombings to be committed, given the extreme duress Israel, and the U.S., as well as European governments, have placed Palestinians or Gazans under.
Letto:
"What happens in Gaza is not a battle between Israel and Islam. It's a battle between moderates and radicals."
BULL! Try the following articles, f.e.
"The Massacre in Palestine and the Threat of a Wider War",
by Shamus Cooke, Jan 1 2008
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11573
"If Hamas Did Not Exist", by Jennifer Loewenstein, Associate Director of Middle East Studies Program at U. of Wisconsin-Madison, palestineChronicle.com, Dec 31 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50183&hd=&size=1&l=e
"New birth pangs for the Middle East",
by Hasan Abu Nimah, electronicIntifada.net, Dec 31 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50182&hd=&size=1&l=e
"The Holocaust", by Dahlia Wasfi, who was born in the US in 1971 to an American Jewish mother and an Iraqi Muslim father, etcetera, Dec 31 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50161&hd=&size=1&l=e
"'Gaza Strike is Not Against Hamas, It's Against all Palestinians'",
by Amira Hass, Haaretz, Dec 29 2008
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29-4
Letto:
"Most of the Muslim world, including Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, are saying that the Hamas is wrong to fire rockets at Israel."
BULL! Try the following articles, f.e., along with the one above by Shamus Cooke at GlobalResearch.ca; and possibly some of the other above articles.
"Egypt seen as complicit in Gaza assault",
by Adam Morrow and Khaled Moussa al-Omrani, Dec 31 2008
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10084.shtml
"Protests Reported in Several Arab States Over the Israeli Attacks on Gaza",
by Ghassan Bannoura, IMEMC.org, Dec 28 2008
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50025&hd=&size=1&l=e
I haven't yet read the following article, but knowing enuogh of the author's articles on Israeli or U.S.-and-Israeli aggression in the Middle East, against populations and governments that never aggressed Israel or the U.S., I am confident in posting the link to this new article by him. I'll be reading it as soon as this post's been submitted, but already know what Cook surely says in this piece.
"The real goal of the slaughter in Gaza
Hamas cannot be defeated, so it must be brought to heel",
by Jonathan Cook, Jan 1 2009
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11568
And to draw this post to its close, I'll re-post a link obtained from a reader who posted here, at CD, I believe Dec. 31st.
"The Other Side of the Story!", Dec 31 2008
http://palestinian.ning.com/forum/topics/the-other-side-of-the-story
Again, those are PHOTOs of the present extreme Israeli attacks, destruction, and so on, juxtaposed to the minor acts of Hamas or Palestinian retaliations.
Hamas is NOT the problem and never has been! Israel and the U.S. govt, as well as their European enablers, abetters, aiders, ... and the tragically and unacceptably weak UNSC have always, too much always anyway, been the problem and remain the problem.
Save your lenghthy rants and get the hell out in the street in your hometown!
I appreciate the BT'Selem statement, somewhat anyway; but I also somewhat disagree with a need for an investigation about or into this Israeli strike on the truck and Palestinian workers. My reason is that even if the truck and the workers were about moving Hamas rockets, then the Israeli strike would still be totally criminal, hegemonic, and so on. Israel doesn't need to have this one action investigated; Israeli leadership, political and military, needs to be facing trials at the Hague, say, and being definitely condemned there, for there is absolutely no reasonable doubt about Israeli leadership being totally criminal in this military or war aggression on Gaza and Hamas, both. And we should include 60 years or more of totally criminal Israeli leadership and military crimes against ... quite all of Palestine.
NO investigations are needed into the present Israeli aggression on the Gazans, for it is wholly obvious that this is entirely criminal aggression without any possible way of justifying it, at all. Investigations are only needed in order to establish the facts. We already know the facts about this week's Israeli aggression on Gaza, as well as Israeli aggression on Palestinians for 60 years or more, now. We know that Israeli leadership is immediately condemnable to spending the rest of their earthly lives in prison, behind bars of prison.
"Tel Aviv – While war between Israel and Hamas reverberates from Gaza City to southern Israel and to Arab capitals, the fallout will also be felt within the Israeli Knesset.
"The fighting is already affecting Israeli public opinion ahead of the Feb. 10 parliamentary vote: Before the offensive began polls showed conservative opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud party leading. But now, the hawks are losing ground and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, leader of the center-left Labor Party, and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni of centrist Kadima are gaining."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/opolls
The sad thing is that behind Barak and Livni the Israeli and Palestinian people will get more of the same. This goes to show the current state of almost incestuous government that Israel has. There simply is not enough fresh blood, so they keep recycling the same internally while extracting more from others.
"All Nature's difference keeps all Nature's peace." Alexander Pope
I love the way the Palestinian-hater's anti-Arab biases go to work at filling in the details and turning the activity of theose blurry white blobs in that infrared image into something nefarious.
They have to be scheming Arab terrorists up to something evil, or why would they be scrrying about - just like cockroaches when the kitchen lights are turned on!
---USAn---
Are you denying that Hamas is launching rockets at Israeli towns? Only today, 30 such rockets were launched. This included direct hits on two residential buildings and another one on a car. Luckily, the car was empty, on of the houses was empty, and in another one the occupants were in a shelter. Other rockets fell in open fields. I have no desire to apologize for the fact that Israeli civilians have shelters, which have already saved the lives of many (yesterday, for example a school and a kindergarden were directly hit). The palestinian rockets are quite primitive but, nevertheless, I'm sure that you wouldn't have traded your comfortable life in the USA with the way life looks like in the south of Israel right now. True, palestinians are suffering more. Their elected government shouldn't have launched rockets on Israeli towns. It's no more a question of terrorism, a word that is used too often in my opinion (although Hamas is also vowing to relaunch the suicide attacks that have killed hundreds of Israeli civilians). One political entity has attacked its neighbor with rockets. What would you expect your country to do if your home was targeted by rockets?
"What would you expect your country to do if your home was targeted by rockets?"
Figure out what there beef is that makes them angry enough to lash out with primitive rockets, clear out the fanatical settlers on their illegal land, set up a two state solution on the green line as demanded the U.N., and build a security wall against terrorist attacks INSIDE the legal green line. Hey you asked.
p.s. Here is a riddle I have never seen seen answered by Zionist apologists, where EXACTLY is Israel's border? Please substantiate your answer with a link to legal documents or a detailed argument that takes into account the location of settlers and the ever expanding wandering "separation wall." Take your time for I know this question isn't answered in your Hasbara book so you are going to have to do some original research. Are you game and up to the challenge?
I would accept a two-state solution on the green line that would also provide security to both sides and an end to violence. So would most Israelis. Hamas would never accept it.
From the Hamas charter:
- Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.
- Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam.
- There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
A few recent quotations:
Hamas cleric Muhsen Abu 'Ita, Al-Aqsa TV, July 13, 2008: "The annihilation of the Jews here in Palestine is one of the most splendid blessings for Palestine. This will be followed by a greater blessing, Allah be praised, with the establishment of a Caliphate that will rule the land and will be pleasing to men and God."
Mahmoud Al-Zahar, foreign minister in Hamas government, October 20, 2006, Hamas convention in Khan Yunis: "Israel is a vile entity that has been planted in our soil, and has no historical, religious or cultural legitimacy. We cannot normalize our relations with this entity. The history of this region has proven [time and again] that occupation is temporary. Thousands of years ago, the Romans occupied this land and [eventually] left. The Persians, Crusaders, and English [also] came and went. The Zionists have come, and they too will leave. [We say] no to recognizing Israel, regardless of the price we may have to pay [for our refusal]."
Abu Marzouk, April 24, 2006 on www.ikhwanweb.com. "One of Hamas’s founding principals is that it does not recognize Israel"..."Therefore, the question of recognizing Israel is definitely not on the table unless it withdraws from ALL the Palestinian lands, not only to the 1967 borders.
Mahmoud Al-Zahar on Al Manar TV, January 25, 2006. "Palestine means Palestine in its entirety - from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, from Ras Al-Naqura to Rafah. We cannot give up a single inch of it. Therefore, we will not recognize the Israeli enemy's [right] to a single inch." ... "If today we are unable to win the conflict decisively, for reasons known to all, we must not pass on to our sons a disgraceful defeat by recognizing the Israeli enemy's right to exist, where it has no such right."
How do we know Hamas would never accept it, Israel has never offered it sincerely, and no the 5 scattered buntustans surrounded by Israelis only roads with occupying troops and settlements deep into the West Bank offered in 2000 was a non starter. IMO if Israel will not make sincere offer then the U.N. ought to intercede set up a buffer between Israel and Palestine and U.N. peace keeping troops should FORCE Israel's government to abide by 242. In the long run ONLY an Israel secure against terrorist attacks and a viable Palestine will solve this problem in the long run.
Of course all of this fantasy as long as my country unconditionally backs your countries disproportionate response to Hamas's crude and ultimately futile rockets that are more a gesture of defiance than a weapon of war.
And you didn't answer my question where your opinion is that Israel's legal border exists currently, was that question too difficult?
It perhaps isn't so smart to move large cylindrical objects with rounded missile shaped tops after Hamas has been parading missiles around threatening Israeli cities with them. It is pretty obvious that aerial surveillance photos make telling the difference between oxygen, acetylene, and CO2 cylinders and missiles difficult. Raging about wanting peace and and end to violence is pretty empty from people who elected a terrorist organization that was sworn to violence, to the destruction of Israel, and to carrying on the struggle..... by attacking specifically and ONLY civilians within Israel....... as their governing body in free and fair elections that were widely monitored. Hamas has brought them the blockade of Gaza by their continuing acts of terror from within that territory, and brought them this now. The finger pointed at Israel..... should in fact be pointed into a mirror. They have made their bed and find laying in it not to their taste at all.... and the innocent are suffering. These people (Hamas, Hesbolla, and the PLO) have repeatedly sabotaged any peace process by their constant provocation, and the people of Gaza have freely and democratically chosen them....... what more is there to say???
Boy, you really are a "tool" aren't you?
Perhaps the killing software in a preditor drone can't distinguish between University refridgerators and Bio-warfare labs. Has that thought ever occured to you?
The bottom line is that the military is in the business of killing, and that lockheed and boeing are in the business of selling killing robots.
Just wait till there's some civil unrest in the USA and that airborne terminator is looking in your garage trying to decide if it should take out your yard fertilizer because you might be terrorist...
Your dead children in the bedroom next door are no big deal right? As long as we kill all the terrorists to keep us safe, right?
"those who would surrender essential liberty to gain temporary security deserve niether liberty nor security." - Ben Franklin 1775
Excellent post, thanks for saving me some typing. :)
Do the Zionist tools obsession over Hamas rockets ever remind you of Hamas rockets themselves ByeMonkeyBush, ie repetitive, not too accurate, and at most a vague irritant that only appears to be a constant bombardment to the untrained eye?
Israel=Murder Incorporated
As an Israeli I can tell you sincerely that I'm not happy to see Palestinians killed. But it's the responsibility of my government to stop rockets from being launched from Gaza, targeted deliberately at Israeli villages and towns. Most countries wouldn't have done what Israel is doing, they would have responded by firing artillery back on the offenders. Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and if Israel wanted to kill civilians the number of casualties would have been much higher than it is. I'm glad that the Israeli army is at least trying to restrict attacks to military targets.
Looking at the video, what I see looks like a very organized group of people, not like a group of youngsters hastily helping out their father. In the midst of fighting, just after the place was targeted by the IAF, and with an unmanned aircraft hovering above them, I'd be very surprised if they were taking the risk of transporting elongated, metal objects that certainly look very similar to Grad rockets just in order to move equipment out from their family workshop. I don't know if these were Grad rockets or not (IDF believed that they were), but I do know that similar metal workshops are where Hamas builds rockets, and that such rockets land on Israeli towns.
So anyone moving metal cylinders is a legitimate military target? I guess people transporting oxygen cylinders to Hospitals better be careful that Israel's wonderful humanistic army doesn't have another accident then, right? SIGH!
israel needs to stop and give the palestinians they're own homeland
protest the israeli MERCHANTS OF DEATH