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US rejects Kremlin's call to scrap missile shield
Antagonism between the Kremlin and the Bush administration over the deployment of missile systems in Europe deepened yesterday after the US defence secretary, Robert Gates, accused President Dmitry Medvedev of "provocative, unnecessary and misguided" plans to station short-range ballistic missiles in Russia's Baltic exclave, Kaliningrad.
Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev listens to a question during an interview at the presidential residence in Gorki outside Moscow prior to the Russia-EU Summit, November 13, 2008. Moscow has made clear that its weapons in the Baltic exclave would be pointed at the US defence shield, which it believes could be used offensively against Russia.(REUTERS/RIA Novosti/Kremlin/Astakhov Dmitry) Speaking on a visit to Estonia,
Gates said the plans to place Iskander-M missiles in eastern Europe
were "hardly the welcome a new American administration deserves".
Medvedev revealed his intention to move Iskander-M tactical missiles into Kaliningrad during his first annual speech to parliament on November 5 - hours after Barack Obama was elected. He said the deployment was necessary to "neutralise" interceptor missiles and a radar station that Washington wants to site in Poland and the Czech Republic.
The announcement caused anger in Washington, with Nato and the EU both expressing trenchant opposition. There were attempts at conciliation at the weekend, when Medvedev and Obama spoke on the telephone, expressing a wish to meet soon and mend relations. Separately, the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, and the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, met on the sidelines of Middle East peace talks in Egypt for what the state department described as "good and productive" discussions.
But yesterday Gates bluntly criticised Medvedev's announcement on moving Iskanders into Kaliningrad, saying: "Such provocative remarks are unnecessary and misguided." The US defence secretary rejected calls by the Kremlin for Washington to throw out its European missile shield plans, saying the shield was vital to meet threats from rogue states such as Iran, which had made "active efforts" to develop nuclear weapons.
"Frankly I'm not sure what the [Russian] missiles in Kaliningrad would be for," he told journalists in the Estonian capital, Tallinn. "After all, the only real emerging threat to Russia's periphery is Iran, and I don't think the Iskander missile has the range to get there from Kaliningrad."
Moscow has made clear that its weapons in the Baltic exclave would be pointed at the US defence shield, which it believes could be used offensively against Russia. However, earlier yesterday Medvedev suggested in an interview with French journalists that the Kremlin might review its Kaliningrad deployment if Washington backed off on its missile defence plans.
"We could reverse the decision if the new US administration re-examined the effectiveness of deploying these rockets and radars," Medvedev said. "In particular, how adequate a means they would really be for reacting to threats from so-called rogue states."
Gates also pushed strongly yesterday for Ukraine to be given a roadmap to Nato membership at a meeting of the alliance's ministers next month. The Germans and French are strongly opposed to this. But Jaak Aaviksoo, the Estonian defence minister, told the Guardian after seeing Gates: "The US was very persistent on this."
He said of Moscow's threat to deploy missiles in Kaliningrad: "When you put missiles near our borders, it's not a friendly move. I think the Russians will reconsider."
In a nutshell
In a reminder of tensions over Georgia yesterday, an adviser to French president Nicolas Sarkozy revealed details of a conversation between his boss and the Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin. The two met in Moscow on August 12, just days after war had erupted between Russia and Georgia over breakaway South Ossetia. "I am going to hang Saakashvili by the balls," Putin said of the Georgian leader, Mikheil Saakashvili. Sarkozy responded: "Hang him?" Putin responded: "Why not? The Americans hanged Saddam." Sarkozy replied: "Yes, but do you want to end up like Bush?" Putin said: "You have scored a point there."
- Posted in
14 Comments so far
Show All"Yes, but do you want to end up like Bush?”
In a criminal court for war crimes?
In an asylum for the criminally insane?
In Leavenworth clearing brush?
In the Alabama National Guard cleaning latrines?
On the lecture circuit?
How does Bush end up?
Karma…
At the risk of being seen as uncommonly vulgar, I suspect that Bush will end up the way he came into this world: as a turd with a silver spoon in it.
Thats not vulgar, he is pretty much an ass and I can assure you he was given everything he has.
I probably shouldn't post this, because its just one of those things that folks send you, but I got such a hoot out of it, I read it three times. So don't throw stones because I posted it. It may be the Marine connection too....
"One sunny day late in January 2009, an old man approached the White House
from across Pennsylvania Avenue, where he'd been sitting on a park bench.
He spoke to the U.S. Marine standing guard and said,
'I would like to go in and meet with President Bush.'
The Marine looked at the man and said,
'Sir, Mr. Bush is no longer president and no longer resides here.'
The old man said, 'Okay' and walked away.
The following day, the same man approached the White House and said
to the same Marine, 'I would like to go in and meet with President Bush.'
The Marine again told the man, 'Sir, as I said yesterday,
Mr. Bush is no longer president and no longer resides here.'
The man thanked him and, again, just walked away.
The third day, the same man approached the White House and spoke to the
very same U.S. Marine, saying 'I would like to go in and meet with President Bush.'
The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and said,
'Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Bush.
I've told you already that Mr. Bush is no longer the president
and no longer resides here. Don't you understand?'
The old man looked at the Marine and said,
'Oh, I understand. I just love hearing it.'
The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, 'See you tomorrow, Sir.'"
Do we have any bullets left ?
I heard about this around a year ago from a letter from a family I've sat down in their home to break bread. They said " We are frustrated with your President Bush for pointing your rocket missiles at us from Poland and the Ukraine "
Have to say even Bush shocked me. We DO NOT need another Cold War. It's sickens me to think of US having bombs pointed at my Russian family. I hope Obama will change this cold war stance. Can you believe we finally have a true statesman coming, I asked them what they thought of Palin's stance on Russian Foreign Policy. They wonder why we are so foolish.
We gave Georgia a million bucks. If any of you remember back when they stormed the school, their appartments were being blown up in the middle of the night, underground crosswalks were being bombed and the incident in the theatre where so many died. It was these Chechyns from Georgia and it was a fight for what else ? OIL
Let's give peace a chance,
END MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL ! http://www.wisecountyissues.com
After dumping Gates at the Pentagon, getting rid of these missles should be at or close to the top of the list of "to do" items for repairing our relations with Europe and Russia. The people of the Czech Republic (where part of the system would be based) have already voted "no" in a country wide referendum on its advisability.
This is an open invitation for Russia to build a similar base in Venezuela, Nicauragua, or maybe even Bolivia. Maybe then the swastika-worshiping goons at the Pentagon would finally "get it".
Poet
You don't really seem to get it. Interceptors have to be in the path that missles are going to take from one place to another. They can't be "off to the side" If the Russians placed ABMs in Venezuela or Mexico or Louisiana, even Kansas, it wouldn't mean squat. Think for a moment about how missles from Russia would have to get to the US....
Do they fly over Europe? ....
No.
They fly over the pole. ABMs in Poland would be a threat to missles that are coming over Poland and Eastern Europe those would not be Russian missles that could threaten the US, they are potential missles from Iran targeting Europe.
This is a manufactured incident and the interceptors don't mean any threat to the Russians at all. Especiallly since there are going to be 10 interceptors. If these interceptors are 100% effective (and they are going to be REALLY excellent if they are 10% effective) do suppose that the Russians don't have, oh maybe, a couple more than 10 missles to fire off?
Let the Russians pour money into Venezuela or Bolivia. As Russia's friends learned years ago, you can't eat missles or guns.
The interceptors are the nose of the camel in the tent--soon enough the other end--with its output--will follow. Eg. support units to protect the installation, forward deployment of this that and the other supplies, "advisors" to help train locals (and recruit 5th columnists for future use), and outsourcing of manufacture of some vital parts to the host country.
Poet
Gwyn Dyer in his August 22 article made these comments
So why are the Russians so upset about all this? Why did General
Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian general staff, publicly
warn Poland last week that hosting the American interceptors could make it
the target for a nuclear strike? Don't the Russians know they don't work?
Of course they do, but the Russian military, like any professional
military force, need a dramatic foreign threat to justify their demands on
Russia's resources...
It's nonsense, of course. Even if the American ABM missiles did
work as advertised, ten launchers on Poland's Baltic coast are not going to
make much difference given Russia's 848 long-range ballistic missiles,
...
It would make about as much sense militarily if this mini-crisis
were about the basing of a crack American team of kung fu dancers in
Poland. The new American missile defence base in Poland gives all the
interested parties a way to make their political points, while having no
serious strategic importance whatever.
http://www.gwynnedyer.com/
Both sides want a cold war. NEED a cold war. This GWOT nonsense has started to cost too much politically. they need a good, long term pissing match where no one shoots back, but still lets them justify a transfer trillions of public $ to the MIC.
That's why it has to go. One more mess for Obama to clean up.
The Russian "warning" about the missile defense sites in Poland occurred immediately after the election victory of Senator Obama. It was a warning at the address of our President-Elect and NATO which had nothing to do with the missile defense issue.
Every missile expert tells us that Russia can always neutralize the effect of the Polish and Czech installations on its security. However, Russia cannot make undone an admission of Georgia and Ukraine to NATO which Obama favors. The message is therefore "don't mess with Georgia and Ukraine Mr. President, we can put pressure on your big NATO allies who oppose your dangerous policy".
The reaction of Secretary Gates is way off the mark. He should not be continued by President Obama.
Poet:
I agree with your comments. I remember back in 1962 when the Russians put missles in Cuba only 90 miles from U.S. shores and we damn near came close to war. Now the U.S. wants to do virtualy the same thing to Russia; install a "missle shield" real close to their border, and THEY shouldn't bitch about it. Get real!!!! I'm glad for America that Bu$h and Co. will be gone soon. Oh, and one final comment; Get the U.N. out of the U.S.
A simple call from Obama to Medvedev with a promise to not build those installations should suffice. He really needs to politely ask for Gates resignation. Gates has done too many knee-jerk things for the White House, most notably, rattling the saber against Iran.
The Bush-driven "NATO" plan to re-ignite the Cold War [no doubt at the behest of the west's bankers and MI complex], via missile encirclement of Russia, began early in Bush's first term -- years before Putin's recent and largely-symbolic incursion into and retreat from Georgia last summer.
This American-led, unprovoked, and now increasing threat of military aggression against Russia is what has led Putin over the past few years to abandon democratic reforms at home (however slow and groping they were), in favor of return to One-Man-Rule -- which is, after all, the thousand year historical norm for Russia.
Georgia was simply Putin's way of setting the pseudo-capitalist west on notice that Russia will not tolerate such threats - and that it is willing, ready, and able to fight a new Cold War -- if that's what the west wants.
Clearly, a return to the Cold War is NOT what Putin WANTS, or the new Russian natural-resource oligarchs want, or the Russian people want, as Putin and spokespersons for the emerging Russian middle class have said, time and again.
And their claims are credible enough:
The Russian Federation's wholescale opening and development of Siberia's enormous natural resource wealth (principally, the vast natural gas reserves of the Tiaga), now confers on it unprecedented global economic power thru export to the west and to the developing world.
Putin is hardly willing to risk loosing this internal power by trying to militarily/sentimentally and needlessly re-create the land boundaries of the old Soviet Union, and/or of even-older Russian empires.
Russia's only interest now, and for the foreseeable future, is in protecting its current borders and national sovereignity so that it can, finally, after a millenium of grueling mass povery and human suffering, materially develop itself without interference, manipulation, or threat from the [more developed] hypocritical, pseudo-democratic, pseudo capitalistic west.
Nor is a return to the insanity of a Cold War what the average American, or average person in the developed west, wants or needs.
.
Smarter, more humane heads in the west know that beyond having an almost limitless amount of environment-friendly natural gas energy resources which the US could faily trade-for, Russia's people are, depite and precisely because of their age-old struggle against Tsarist and Soviet tyrannty, a natural, potential cultural ally of the better-democratized west. Most Russians also have deep antipathies to violently theocratic Islamic fundamentalists who pocket-populate Russia's midsts - much as our own god-spewing, violent slavery-touting psychopaths similarly populated America's midsts before and duing the US Civil War.
Non-ideological humanist observers in the west also understand that the Russian people see and support Putin & Co. not as a re-creation of just another cruel Tsardom or mindless Soviet ideocracy, but as transitionally-needed 'strong men,' able to develop and redistribute, out of a still-threatening national chaos, wealth for the masses while, to boot, slowly easing a long-standing tradition of anti-democratic, institutional tyranny.
But a Cold War with Russia IS what many of the west's monied Oligarchs DO want: Huge and reliable profits from unending, multiple small wars within little countries around the world, and, best of all, a new east vs. west arms race against an easily demonized major power like Russia.
The American people have infinitely more to fear from their own demented class of robber baron bankers, MI complex warmongers, and corrupt politicians than they do from Russia under Putin & Co.
If Obama can't and the US Oligarchs won't do it, then the American people should lead the way toward defining mutual interests, making peace, and deepening cultural and economic relations with Russia, just as they tried to do over 'missile questions' before the URRR's collapse, in the early 1980's.
Those US-initiated, people-to-people reachings-out helped pave the way for Gorbacev's ascention to power in Russia - and the end of the Soviet Union.
For a telling emotional insight into what the real Russian's heart is -- and has always yearned for, take the time to listen, someday, to any one of Rachmaninov's first 3 Piano Concerto's --Concerto #2 is surely the best and most transporting.
Beyond specifically linking Russia's hidden spirit to America's, R's Piano Concerto #2 especially intends to honor and convey the heartbreaking national struggles of all nations and peoples, while, finally, in the end, anticipating the ultimate success of all humanity in its yet-to-be-achieved world of peace, justice, and mutual compassion, and beautiful possibilities.