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'No More Mr Nice Gay' as Mormons Face Vote Backlash
Protesters vent fury after church funds successful effort to ban gay marriages
Daniel Ginnes carried a banner declaring: "No More Mr Nice Gay." Brian Lindsey held up a sign billing Joseph Smith, founder of the Church of the Latter Day Saints, as a "prophet, polygamist, pedophile." Hundreds of others simply chanted: "Mormon scum."
Opponents of Prop 8 gather at City Creek Park Friday Nov. 7, 2008. According to police an estimated 2,000 protestors gathered near the Salt Lake LDS Temple this evening, carrying signs defending gay marriage and attacking Mormon officials for the church's active campaigning on behalf of California's Proposition 8. (AP Photo/Chris Detrick - The Salt Lake Tribune) More than 2,000 gay rights protesters marched on a Mormon temple in Los Angeles on Thursday, throwing the church and its followers on to the front line of the battle over California's decision to ban same-sex marriage.
Earlier this week, 52.5 per cent of voters in the supposedly liberal state decided to back Proposition 8, a ballot measure that adds 15 words to the constitution, saying that: "Only a marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."
The development marked a massive setback for gay rights and left 18,000 couples, who had married in the five months since California legalized same-sex weddings, in legal limbo.
In the large and traditionally laid-back gay community, it also left a sense of injustice. Proposition 8 passed with the assistance of a $70m (£44m) campaign largely funded by out-of-state donations from Mormons. "It's taken something like this to make us realize the need to be more aggressive and angry and active," said Mr Ginnes, a graphic designer from West Hollywood. "People didn't think they were going to lose the vote, so they didn't realize it was worth fighting for.
"Now we have lost a fundamental right. That's a shame, but it's certainly galvanized a community that was apathetic. What you are seeing today is the birth of a movement."
In the coming days, a string of protests are planned across California, as campaigners mount a robust PR war against the Utah-based church. Many will picket services tomorrow.
"We should have got nasty a long time ago," said Mr Lindsey, who is originally from a Mormon family. "I'm not going to be polite any more, I'm not going to step around my belief that this is a nasty church with disgusting views which managed to buy an election. I don't care if it's people's religion. I'm going to stand up and fight it."
Thursday's protest, which gridlocked traffic in Hollywood for the second consecutive day, was mostly disciplined, with police reporting two arrests. Seven people were detained at a demonstration on Wednesday.
For the Mormon Church, it threatens a PR nightmare. The gay rights lobby boasts scores of prominent celebrity supporters who have already pledged vociferous support to the campaign to overturn Proposition 8.
The country music singer Melissa Etheridge, a prominent lesbian, announced yesterday that she will refuse to pay income tax until she's "allowed the same rights" as other taxpayers. Instead, she pledged to donate money to legal challenges arguing that the way Proposition 8 was put to the voters was unconstitutional.
Behind the scenes, the mood is turning increasingly ugly. "If they're going to vote away my rights based on fear and ignorance and prejudice, I'm going to give them something to be fucking scared of," read a message posted on the online bulletin board Queerty.
The Mormon Church is in damage limitation mode. "No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information," it said in a statement.
The Mormons A snapshot
*The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was founded by Joseph Smith Jr in New York state in 1830 and developed by Brigham Young who migrated with the new Mormons to Salt Lake Valley, Utah, in 1847.
*There are 12 million members worldwide who believe their church is a restoration of the Church as conceived by Jesus and that other Christian churches have gone astray.
*It is said to be the fourth largest Christian denomination in the whole of the United States.
*Mormons oppose homosexuality, abortion, sex outside of marriage, alcohol, drugs, pornography, gambling, tobacco, tea and coffee.
*Mormons hold that we all have an eternal life stretching either side of our life on earth. They believe that humans can become like gods in the afterlife, although subordinate to God.
*The Church of the Latter Day Saints tolerated "plural marriage" before the American Civil War. The practice was discontinued more than a century ago, but several thousand renegade Mormons in the western states still practice polygamy and the issue is one of the main obstacles to the religion being accepted as a mainstream branch of Christianity.
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125 Comments so far
Show AllThat's the spirit we need to deal with Mormon pigshit, and all of their ilk, including OBiden & McPalin. Way past enough is enough
I am really looking forward to the next time the Mormon missionaries
knock on my door!
So am I. That's going to be a show I wish I could witness.
Give 'em a good middle-fingered salute for me!
People should not be persecuted, no matter their sexual orientation, race, or religion. Organizations, however, should be held accountable. The Mormon organization should lose its tax exempt status. Political advocacy is outside of the purview of any church (temple, synagogue, mosque, etc.) by law and should remain so.
You become what you hate.
I really like the loss of tax exemption. Perhaps it could be a first step in removing the exemption from all churches, which are essentially big businesses.
I agree about removing tax exemptions for all churches. They are big businesses, all of them. And they preach politics. They have too much power in this country.
Seriously. You just need to look at those pathetic, huge mega-churches on TV to see that they are nothing but big corporations selling their Jesus wares to the public like a religious Wal-Mart.
"Mormons oppose homosexuality, abortion, sex outside of marriage, alcohol, drugs, pornography, gambling, tobacco, tea and coffee."
So why isn't there a proposition banning tea and coffee?
As a Canadian, I could never quite figure out how an American constitution guaranteeing freedom from religion could get away with this kind of stupidity.
"So why isn't there a proposition banning tea and coffee?"
_______________________________________
Perhaps Starbuck's is the thin brown line whose lobbyists are obstructing this proposition.
Or perhaps the faithful's caffeine deficiency leaves them no match for the hyper-caffeinated coffee and tea proponents.
Or they might just be saving it for the next election.
Meanwhile, maybe Robert Redford will relocate Sundance to Massachusetts.
The whole thing is that one of their holy books, I think the Doctrine and Covenants, tells them to abstain from hot drinks. This has been interpreted to mean caffeinated hot drinks, like tea and coffee, by most Mormons. (Some actually don't drink hot drinks of any kind.) However, Mormons drink caffeinated soda by that gallons full, and they also drink lots of hot chocolate, full of caffeine.
Trying to be a Latter-Day Saint is trying on the nerves. Humans, imho, were never meant to be perfect, their physical constitutions can't handle the pressure.
BTW, there is a joke around here that rings too true for the most part: Why don't you take only one Mormon with you on a hunting trip? Because they'll drink all your beer.
R
I'm sure it comes down to something like knowing what they can get away with. You can't inact these things without having a lot of people on your side, so they wouldn't even try.
Cant stand Melisse Etheridge. Very selfish/ignorant person. She had something to do with an anti fur campaign for Peta but quit it because peta knows that animal research is the sadistic torture of innocents who get treated far worse than the most despised criminals(who would yield better medical results if used for research by those who scream about how important cures are).
Because her father died of cancer she felt it made her entitled to see innocents be tortured and killed.
"If they're going to vote away my rights based on fear and ignorance and prejudice, I'm going to give them something to be fucking scared of,"
**I would watch out. No one can do crazy scary like religious nuts.
I'm afraid that your suggesting "despised" criminals are suitable subjects of medical research reduces sympathy for your cause. Just out of curiosity, how many medical trials have you volunteered for?
The Mormon Church and RCC church ran the notorious "church schools"
which brainwashed and tortured native American children for the US government.
Beatings, hangings, murders, suicides, sexual abuse all included, naturally.
More recently, the Mormon and RCC churches funded -- with tax-exempt dollars
-- the attack on the Equal Rights Amendment which would have made females
equal under our Constitution.
These churches remain cornerstones of vile and prejudiced teachings which
spread bigotry and hatred for homosexuals and women.
"According to all myth, the female - not the male -- gives life"
Mormons, as all those of faith, are entitled to believe as they will - for themselves. Their freedom to do that ends when it encroaches upon other's freedoms.
The amazing hypocrisy of religious zealots is seen in how they lack tolerance for any that don't believe as they do. If their beliefs were truly so right and good, don't they have the faith that others would migrate toward them? But if they have to force it upon others then maybe it isn't all they try to make it out to be.
I don't know about everybody else, but 'm really tired of those who would presume to tell me how to think and how to live my life. So much for the great melting pot, heh? For a nation of tolerance and good will?!
I have Mormon relatives, and I'm not gay, but I don't associate with them because they always invariably pass judgement on all manner of things. What ever happened to "judge not lest ye be judged." Geez.
Live and let live.
Mormon theology, excerpted from “Mormonism for Dummies”.
_________________________________________________________
"Heaven is on a planet in the constellation Cancer, sector 2813. It is called the Celestial Kingdom. The name of the planet of Heaven is KOLOB. Mormon astronomers at BYU University in Utah have designated it as OJ287, which is located 3.5 billion light-years from Earth in the constellation Cancer. KOLOB, or OJ287 throws an overwhelming beacon of light onto Earth. This is associated with the path to and from the Celestial Kingdom."
"On KOLOB, the main activity is mating. This is because the spirit world of KOLOB exists to supply souls for newborn earthlings. The exponential growth of new souls in heaven is only possible because the children of heaven do not have physical bodies. Instead, they have spirit-bodies. Just as KOLOB is surrounded by a spirit world, Mormon theologians imagine that the Earth is surrounded by a spirit world. The earth’s spirit world is the home of dead people, in limbo for now, who await transport back to KOLOB. But first, they must all be baptized."
"The baptism ritual occupies much time for Mormons, because they are required to research the names of all their dead ancestors. Then they must act as proxies for the Dead Ones, as they stand in to be dunked under in the baptismal font. Without knowing their names, Mormons are powerless to baptize them. “Baptism for the Dead” has evolved into a very sophisticated form of ancestor worship, as is evidenced by the excellent genealogical libraries Mormons have built throughout the world, and especially in Salt Lake City."
"When a soul is needed for a fertilized human ovum, a previously dispatched spirit from KOLOB travels to earth at speeds faster than light. Faster than light travel is easily achieved for Kolobian spirits because spirits weigh nothing. It is a stream of these supraluminal spirits from the planet KOLOB that supplies the souls of earthlings’ fertilized ova, Mormon and gentile alike. Souls arrive speedily to lend the vital force to our otherwise useless shells."
"It is with special spirit, that Mormon wives, who are called “Precious Vessels”, deliver their tiny extra-terrestrial visitors. Mormon fathers are especially eager to trigger this process, beginning at KOLOB in a far away galaxy and ending at a birth canal."
______________________________________________________________________
Maybe Mormons should confine themselves to their own parallel universe.
And stop meddling with ours.
Wow. This is awesome. Check out their "Plan of Salvation". It tells the story of the journey of the soul from premortal (or "pre-existence"), through mortality, to post-mortal eternal life. Interestingly enough, it also follows the same sequence as the Major Arcana of the Tarot.
A very large portion of Mormon beliefs and practices come directly from those of the Freemasons. Joseph Smith was a member.
WOW - even I as a former member didn't know that they had actually declared the location of KOLOB and named it astronomically. I wonder how many of them ridiculed the Heaven's Gate cult who believed they would be transported to another planet? But, other than those specifics, you are exactly right. There are many who claim to have met their ancestors while doing work in the temples or who have been approached by their spirit children prior to their birth who then identify themselves to them. The late Mrs. Osmond believed that her youngest child, Jimmy, came to her in a dream before he was born. It's all very occultic, although they will vehemently deny that.
So that excerpt is from the book "Mormonism for Dummies." That just says it all.
Mormonism is ONLY for dummies.
The Mormons like to pretend they invented ancestor worship. Not so. Many religions, and people with no religion at all, research and respect their individual family trees, as my own (Jewish) family did. The pagans still celebrate their ancestors around this time of the year, sending messages to them and listening for their vibrations from the Other World. Latin countries celebrate Dio de Los Muertos (pardon spelling), when beautiful altars are designed to nourish the dead with pictures, candles, candy, fruit and flowers.
Loving our ancestors and connecting with their strength is a fundamental human right, not a privilege reserved for a handful of Mormons.
I remember a recent incident where Jewish leaders were outraged when they discovered that Mormon temple workers had been baptizing holocaust victims without notifying their relatives.
Yeah, I remember that too. It came out in the news a few years ago.
And their beliefs give them the right to override the beliefs or lives of anyone not even members of their church or believing as they do? This is wrong any way you look at it. And while they may be one of the largest churches, MIGHT DOES NOT MAKE RIGHT.
Melissa Etheridge has the right idea. Why should any of the Gays pay taxes? They're American citizens, hard working, many very talented, and most contributing to society in meaningful ways, and only want to live meaningful lives like the rest of us do. They're God's creation too, and their fate should be left to His Judgement as ours is.
I'm with the gays in this fight because there isn't anything right about what this church has done. I drink tea and coffee, I've been married and I'll never be again, but if I decide to have sex, I'll have sex. Are they going to go after people having sex without marriage once they've destroyed gays lives, put women in their place - barefoot, pregnant and subservient? And when they're through will the other big churches go through their beliefs and force more people to live according to their dictates?
Dafoe
I would suggest that the IRS look into the Mormons backing of this bill as it seems to me it is directly dabbling in politics and they should also investigate all the fundamentalist churches who preach repugnant politics from the pulpit. I am reminded ot that old saying of "what do you expect from a pig but a grunt" which certainly applies to the LDS church. No one is forcing the mammons er mormons to practice same sex marriages so why should they not live and let live. My dad's old country was called for years by Irishmen a priest riddled race and it took years to shed the lock the RC church had on society, this country is a religion riddled race and the religions that are in the saddle aren't worth a "pitcher of warm spit" get rid of the hypocrits.
I can understand the anger and am glad trhey show it, keep on.
Even the Mormons officially gave up on intolerance of black people, in what, the 1970s? Before then, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir was lily white. Now, it's, um, look for the token black woman.
They don't just hate Indians.
They Love Indians, at least those who buy into their line that Jesus came over here after The Resurrection to convert them. Yes, that's what the Book of Mormon says.
When i was 13, a friend of mine, who was a Mormon (& a little devil), initiated my first homosexual experience, during a sleep-over at my house.
Later, that same night, he went straight from a hard-on to a break-down, consumed with shame & guilt.
I told him that he/we would have to keep our orientation/desires secret for a while, for our own protection (from family, Church, bullies), and guaranteed him that homosexual experiences / homosexuality was as good as anything & only a sin for his religion.
But there was nothing i could do to shake him out of his shame & guilt. That night was, more or less, my "first time" & a sad end to a fine friendship.
Let's have a word with & for the Mormon/Moron Church:
RELIGULOUS
There is no "god" as represented in any current organized religion, therefor there are no religiously designated rules to live by. Morality is common sense. Don't kill people. Don't have sex with other peoples' spouses. Don't commit fraud. Deal with people as you would have them deal with you. Religion is not required to reveal the obvious.
Live and let live. If you do not believe homosexuals should get married then do not marry a member of your own sex. Let others do as they will as long as they are not hurting you. How do homosexual marriages hurt you?
-- EKATON --
Live and let live. Best advice ever and I agree 100%. I really don't understand why anyone thinks that what you do in the privacy of your own life has anything to do with them.
"Morality is common sense."
Religiously designated rules are no substitute for morals:-
Jesus did not condemn slavery. It seems no-one at the time thought
it to be wrong. We now understand the wrongness of slavery. But this
understanding did not come to us as a religiously designated rule.
I'm not sure it's "common" sense, though I do believe it comes as more or less standard equipment. The problem (?) is that it comes from inside somewhere, and attempts to unscrew the tops of heads and pour it inside is doomed to failure because it then remains an external foreign thing which is rejected. What we do not do is teach people how to use this creative power in a positive way. Churches use the "unscrew and pour it in" method, and government (should) just stay out of the business. I guess it's left to artists and poets and writers of fiction to provide the right grist for its development.
I wish I could remember the rules for apostrophising "it is" and the possessive form of it. Mighty ebarrassing, but not so bad as blundering around being aggressively ethno-centric like a jack-ass braying as if the views which have come to my life ought to be universally held.
I used to be mormon and I was at that protest last night - It felt really good giving "Latter Day Saints" the middle finger along side 2000 others.
Revoke the Church of Latter Day Saints' tax exempt status. That'll get them where it hurts! Keep the damn churches out of my politics. If they want in, tax them!!
Perhaps people can picket their displeasure tomorrow in front of LDS rood topped covens.
Ditto the mackeral snappers.
"In light of recent events, I wish to express the support and solidarity of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City with our brothers and sisters in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Recently, both of our churches took a strong stand in California to support Proposition 8" - Bishop Wester
Let us not forget that 70 percent of the black vote was for prop. 8. Evidently the black churches are not able to understand that bigotry is not confined to African Americans, or that gay love is as valuable as straight love. I say that all churches should be taxed. If people want to believe in superstition, let them. But Tax THEM! Yes, it's time to take off the kid gloves.
There were two statements above that sum it up neatly for me.
cosmobilly
"What ever happened to "judge not lest ye be judged." Geez."
EKATON
"If you do not believe homosexuals should get married then do not marry a member of your own sex."
The Mormons have an 'inspired' version of the Bible where that passage is altered to read something like 'judge ye not unrighteous judgment'. Not an exact quote, probably, but it goes a long way to explaining Mormon behavior.
Is the Mormon Church's tax exempt status at risk? Shouldn't it be?????
I remember as a kid growing up Mormon in rural Utah traveling to Salt lake City to attend a school-related event. This was about 18 years ago. The Church's General conference was going on and there was a gay protest happening outside the gates to Temple Square. It was a "kiss-in". GLBT folks were sitting on the ground in front of the South Gate to the temple grounds, across the street from the main shopping mall in Salt Lake, making out and holding signs.
One sign I remember said "Paul H Dunn exaggerates, but Boyd K. Packer Lies". Both Packer and Dunn were Mormon leaders. Packer drew particular fire from queers for his publication of a tract for male Mormon missionaries that advocated violence against fellow missionaries who were found to be gay. Specifically, if a fellow missionary made advances, you were entitled to beat the shit out of him to set him straight, as it were.
One of my great shames in life came during this protest 18 years ago. As the protesters were chanting, among other things, "We're here,We're here,We're here because we're queer!" My ignorant, 16 year old, little Mormon ass started a chant across the street screaming, "we hate, we hate, we hate because we're straight!" Perhaps I was telling a greater truth than I realized.
Over the next two years, I went through a process with the Mormon church that brought me to the conclusion that it breeds superstitious, supremacist bigots who have to be spoon-fed their faith.
Now at 33, I really despise the church and the hardcore dumbasses it fosters. And though I do have a good relationship with some in my Mormon family, I also think some of them are the biggest fucking Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck-loving morons I have ever met. They really think they're Gods Chosen, and members, even leaders, of God's "one true church". Meanwhile they are incredibly shallow-minded, hateful, ignorant, petty people.
I once told a particularly vile uncle of mine that if he actually represents God's "one true church", then God must be a real asshole.
The final "testimony" I bore, when I was 18, to my childhood congregation basically explained why I "just don't buy it any more". I was hauled into my bishop's office afterward, and gently forced to explain myself. That conversation is still going on. The last word in it came recently with me telling my former Bishop that if he actually represents God's "one true church", then God must be a real asshole. Yup it was this same uncle.
By the way, I was also told, by the same Bishop, that if I didn't give my Allegiance to George Bush the first, then my eternal salvation was at risk. Jesus Christ.
Inspiring story; thanks.
Welcome to a New World, loveandjustice, outside the confines of the Morman Church. Here people are free to love whomever they want and live the way they want.
You'll love it here.
Thanks. I... feel... so... free...!!
I suppose it is fair to confess that since 1993 I've had both male and female lovers. Though after a sort of bender during my 20s at the 31 flavors booth, I find the females to be considerably yummier.
Anyway, I'm not yet settled into a monogamous relationship, though I expect to at some point: breed one kid, get snipped, adopt a second, try to inspire a new generation into progressive/radical directions, and promote those oh-so-quaint concepts of peace, love, and honor of this Great Grandmother of us all- our big, beautiful Earth.
In the meantime, I suppose I'm just not done being angry yet, therefore I hoist two big middle fingers and yell from the mountaintop...
FUCK BIGOTS!!!
But again, I digress. Back to prop 8.
Religion is a major problem. It's time to stop being quiet about it. If they can influence public policy and try and force their dark-age values on us, it's time to form a supergroup of freethinkers, atheists, secular humanists, and tolerant spritualists to take these idiots on.
Because, bottom line, that is what they are... idiots. But worse, their idiocy is infringing on our right to live our one shot at life as we see fit.
Well a big middle finger to that. I am not being quiet or tolerant any longer. We've been too nice for too long. When I hear people bringing up their groundless, hateful, and superstitious beliefs I am going to do my best to publicly humiliate them. I am going to drown out every street preacher I come across by evangelizing even louder for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I am going to destroy every Bible in every hotel room I visit... perhaps by putting a warning label on the front warning those of it's violence, hate, and barbarism. I am going to explain to every Mormon missionary that comes to my door why their beliefs are completely, flat-out poisonous, regardless of whether or not they listen.
It is long past time to mobilize against patriarchal unscientific systems of thought that have done their best to hinder humanity at every turn. Most of our country doesn't "believe" in evolution -- we're talking the cornerstone of biology here people.
I will not stand idly by out of some feigned politically correct respect for systems of thought that are at the root of nearly every societal problem. I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or Hindu. The time of belief in prophets, virgin-births, chosen peoples and righteous violence is over.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus
Don't forget that bunk bill that passed in Alabama.. gay folks can't adopt kids.. WTF!!!
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -Epicurus
That would be Arkansas. And in the desire to exclude gay adoption, they had to exclude adoption and foster parenting by all single people.
Ah yes, thank you for the correction. My bad.
Bill Maher addresses religious believers at the end of "Religulous" & asserts that, in going along with their faith, they are the equivalent of Mafia wives -- they know the evil, they just want the perks and are afraid to confront the bosses.
The Catholic Church was especially active as well in this, especially the bishop of the Diocese of Phoenix in Arizona.
*Mormons oppose homosexuality, abortion, sex outside of marriage, alcohol, drugs, pornography, gambling, tobacco, tea and coffee.
And if you've ever been in Salt Lake City you'll notice all the bakeries and ice cream shops around. Since LDS'ers can't drink (even tea) or smoke they indulge in sweets. On the other hand, there were more Obama 2008 signs per square mile in SLC than I ever saw here in the Bay Area. Go 40 miles down the freeway to Provo, the true Heart of the Beast, and you wouldn't see any. SLC and Moab should secede and become independent republics and let the rest of Utah remain the Mississippi of the west.
So whatg do we do about it? One, get all organizations to refuse to hold conventions in any California site. Boycott the state. Two, remember that last time the definition of marriage as man-woman only had been 61%. Now it's only 52.5%. Within a few years it will drop well below 50%. I'm not counselling patience, but constant pressure. We can make it happen.