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McCain's Plumber No Ordinary Joe
NEW YORK - John McCain hung his final presidential debate performance on an Ohio plumber who campaign aides never vetted.
Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., facing camera, talks to plumber Joe Wurzelbacher in Holland, Ohio, Sunday, Oct. 12, 2008.A day after making Joseph Wurzelbacher famous, referencing him in the debate almost two dozen times as someone who would pay higher taxes under Barack Obama, McCain learned the fine print Thursday on the plumber's not-so-tidy personal story.
(AP Photo/Jae C. Hong) A day after making Joseph Wurzelbacher famous, referencing him in the
debate almost two dozen times as someone who would pay higher taxes
under Barack Obama, McCain learned the fine print Thursday on the
plumber's not-so-tidy personal story: He owes back taxes. He is not a
licensed plumber. And it turns out that Wurzelbacher makes less than
$250,000 a year, which means he would receive a tax cut if Obama were
elected president.
McCain likes to say that he isn't George W. Bush - and in this case of bungled public relations, it is clear he is not. The famously-disciplined Bush campaign operation would likely have found the perfect anonymous citizen to illustrate a policy proposal, rather than spontaneously wrap itself around an unknown entity with so many asterisks.
While the arc of Wurzelbacher's breakneck trip through the news cycle - from private citizen to insta-celebrity to political target - offers a curious insight into the political media culture, it also appears to offer a glimpse into the McCain campaign's on-the-fly decisionmaking style.
A McCain source said Thursday that the campaign read about Wurzelbacher on the Drudge Report, while another campaign aide confirmed that he was not vetted. Senior McCain adviser Matt McDonald told Politico after the debate that Wurzelbacher was not aware that he would become central to the candidates' third and final showdown, although Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday that the McCain campaign contacted him earlier in the week to ask him to appear with the candidate at a Toledo rally scheduled for Sunday. (He may not make it, now that he's scheduled to be in New York for TV interviews.)
"Joe, if you're watching, I'm sorry," McCain said Thursday, referring to the press attention that the Ohio man had received, during a taping of the Late Show with David Letterman.
McCain said he has not spoken to Wurzelbacher yet. Aides have reached out, hoping to get him on the stump at some point.
By Thursday evening, though, the McCain campaign had tied itself even closer to Wurzelbacher than the night before.
His campaign released a web ad titled "Joe the Plumber." McCain opened his rally in Downingtown, Pa., with a shout-out to Wurzelbacher.
"We had a good debate last night. I thought I did pretty well, but let's have a little straight talk: the real winner last night was Joe the Plumber," McCain told 1,000 people. "He won and small businesses across America won, because the American people are not going to let Senator Obama raise their taxes in a tough economy."
For a few moments, the crowd chanted, "Joe! Joe! Joe!"
"Joe's the man!" McCain yelled back.
Obama veered from his prepared remarks in Londonderry, N.H., to question McCain's use of Wurzelbacher, saying the Republican senator's tax plan would do more for corporations and wealthy individuals than, say, a plumber.
"He is trying to suggest that a plumber is the guy he's fighting for," Obama said told a rally with 4,100 people. "How many plumbers do you know making a quarter of a million dollars a year?"
Obama's remarks echoed those of his vice presidential nominee, Joe Biden, who criticized McCain for "the notion of this guy Joe the Plumber."
"I don't have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year that are worried," Biden said on NBC's Today show. "The Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the Cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the Grocery Store Owners in my neighborhood - they make, like 98 percent of small businesses, less than $250,000 a year. And they're going to do very well under us, and they're going to be in real tough shape under John McCain."
Wurzelbacher, 34, a single father and self-described conservative, emerged as a symbol for a tax debate that has become a mainstay of the give-and-take on the campaign trail, and also of the white working-class voters who have been pursued so vigorously by both candidates.
The exchange between Obama and Wurzelbacher that first brought him to the McCain campaign's attention, occurred Sunday while the Democratic nominee was canvassing for votes in Toledo.
"I'm being taxed more and more for fulfilling the American Dream," Wurzelbacher told Obama, adding he was concerned about having to pay more taxes as he worked towards his goal of buying his own plumbing business, which could draw income of $250,000 a year. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"
Obama said that, under his proposal, those making $250,000 or less would not pay more in taxes, but incomes above that level would be subject to a higher tax rate.
"It's not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you - that they've got the chance at success too," Obama told Wurzelbacher. "I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
Since then, the encounter has also provided fodder for conservatives alleging his tax plan would amount to a massive redistribution of wealth.
McCain said Obama's plan would stop entrepreneurs such as Wurzelbacher from investing in new small businesses and keep existing ones from growing.
Even before the debate concluded Wednesday, local TV stations, network producers and journalists from around the country were trying to reach Wurzelbacher. By Thursday afternoon, he had been picked to pieces.
Wurzelbacher acknowledged to reporters that he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work. State and local records show Wurzelbacher has no license, although his employer does.David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection, said Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo.
Wurzelbacher also owes the state of Ohio $1,182.98 in personal income tax, according to Lucas County Court of Common Pleas records. The Ohio Department of Taxation filed a claim on his property until he pays the debt, according to the records. The lien remains active.
The McCain campaign weighed in on Wurzelbacher's behalf, using the opportunity to take digs at two frequent targets.
"It's an outrage that the Obama campaign and the media are attacking Joe the Plumber for asking a legitimate question of a presidential candidate. This is why voters still have so many questions about Barack Obama. Instead of answering tough questions, his campaign attacks average Americans for daring to look at the reality behind his words, said Tucker Bounds, spokesman the McCain-Palin campaign. "John McCain will continue to fight on behalf of all hardworking Americans like Joe for policies geared toward increasing prosperity and reducing the burden on taxpayers -- not 'spreading the wealth around' for Senator Government to distribute as he sees fit."
Leaning against his black Dodge Durango SUV, Wurzelbacher at first was amused by it all, then overwhelmed and finally a little annoyed.
"I don't have a lot of pull. It's not like I'm Matt Damon," he said "I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself."
Ben Smith and Jonathan Martin contributed to this story, which also includes information from the Associated Press.
30 Comments so far
Show AllAnother thing about the militant anti tax people-they dont seem to mind having their businesses founded on infrastructure provided by the state--i.e roads, plumbing, schools.
Not saying they should hand their money to poor people(some of whom are lazy and live off the system--just like some rich people who collect social security or corporations on subsidies), but since no one is born on an equal footing(some are born with handicaps, others with wealth) it is delusional to suggest we dont need a social safety net.
Joe Plumber is an utter DISGRACE to the working class folks. I can hardly wait for the rightwing trolls to pour into this forum.
Too late, Joe, you've already made WAY too much of a fool of yourself. The fact that you call yourself a conservative is step one in that. The "conservatives" in this country HATE people like you. Don't you get it? They declared war on you over 28 years ago, and it's been war against you full steam ahead ever since. You are against everything that actually HELPS you in your life, and are for everything that helps those who NEED no help. What the hell is wrong with you and those like you?
Look, the republican party USED to be on your side, or at least a little bit. That was back when Eisenhower was president. Ever since, they have been out to screw you to the wall for their own benefit. Don't you get it? They HATE people like you! They HATE those who don't have enough, who can use some help to live, who would benefit from having a decent, HUMAN gov't.
Why do you insist on NOT belonging to a society? A society cares for it's people, it does what it can to help them, it tries to make things better for ALL it's citizens, not just those who already have WAY too much. What is it about such a thing that disgusts you so much? It's called BELONGING to something greater than yourself. And the way things are set up now, we do NOT have such a thing. We are cut loose to sink, because they sure aren't making it possible for us to swim.
You ARE a fool, Joe. You just don't open your eyes to see REALITY. You refuse to believe that those in charge of things would screw you, but it happens every day. How about if you stop wasting your time on Faux noise and start LEARNING something for a change? Stop listening to the lies, and GROW UP. Your children need you to step up and be a man. Right now, you are NOT being such. You are nothing but a fool.
Okay so i forced myself to see the 'interviews' with 'Joe the Idiot'. He is a redneck, republican mole. That much is pretty obvious. How in hell does this retard manage to support McCain and vote against his own economic interests.
"i just hope i'm not making too much of a fool of myself." duh. you might want to thank mcsame, as well as your own ignorance, for the pickle you find yourself in. but don't worry, real world loves you.
joe, in case you're wondering what kind of fool the american public takes you to be, check out larry velllequette/tom troy's article, right her on cd, 10.16.08. actually, it's the posts after the article that you will find most entertaining. and revealing. what an absolute total dumb fuck loser you are.
Don't criticize the Obamessiah
First they came for the Plumbers...
If School Teachers, Nurses, Engineers, Pharmacists, etc. don't have to worry about making over $250,000, then why should we be concerned if a plumber pays 3 percent more, and only on those amounts greater than $250,000?
Also, aren't we talking about taxable income here, not gross income? If Joe has a proprietorship with three partners and we assume the profit is $250,00 and the split is about $83,000 each, is Joe taxed at $250,000 rate or the $83,000 he actually has as "income"?
I'm a W2 worker and don't own a small business so feel free to explain if you're qualified, I'm just perplexed?
Or, maybe Mr. McCain can clarify this. I'm sure he reads "Common Dreams" all the time.
You have to remember that if Joe had such a small partnership in which they all worked in the business, the money they pay themselves isn't profit, it is salary or wages, so it is a deductable business expense. Profit would only be the money left after all business expenses, including their salary. The income tax would only be on the profit, but I assume most mom-and-pop businesses would normally put the pre-tax profit they earn back into new or replacing worn-out equipment, which is deductable immediately or on a depreciation schedule. So, the business would pay little or no tax - a small business would probably never report $250,000 profit unless they are liquidating the business.
At least that is how I understand it. My wife has started a tiny sole-owner business doing holistic diet consulting (yeah stereotypical for a CD reading household), so far probably at a loss. So I will learning how to file the business income paperwork for our tax return soon enough.
Thanks for the insightful comment.
I'm also perplexed as to why Obama couldn't have taken the argument to a similar level of examination, as you have, with McCain and left him in the dust.
Oh, Joe, you have made such a fool of yourself. You, who stand to benefit from the Obama tax plan, would rather serve those who have been transferring the wealth from your pocket into theirs. They who make the most -- $250,000 and waaay more - don't work harder, they work "smarter." By taking a share, one way or another, of the money that flows over, under, around, and through the economy, the really wealthy are insinuated in almost every financial transaction that happens anywhere.
This Joe the plumber phenomenon does indeed look more and more a manifestation of the Republicans success in depicting themselves as champions of working people (white suburban ones anyway). The Democrats meanwhile end up looking like the party of rich yuppie snobs.
Meanwhile, Joe's millionaire bosses who pay Joe his crappy sub-median $40,000 per year (only because of lots of OT and taking no time off), who don't work very hard at all, manage to slip out of the whole debate! Meanwhile, Joe targets his resentment at government taxes (where did those fine suburban roads come, or schools, police, fire protection, clean air, clean water etc...etc..) or at union workers, who he wants to drag down to his level of pay.
I recall the late Utah Phillips used to talk about this clever diversion of working class resentment off in wrong directions.
Meanwhile, the more the the "liberal" commenters here level personal attacks at Joe, the more thay will be playing into this diabolical strategy of the capitalist bosses and republicans.
Politico got the story wrong. From other sources I know that Joe makes $40,000 a year, and dreams(?) of buying his employer's plumbing business for $280,000. He complained to Obama that his income tax plan (increasing the income tax rate on income over $250,000/year) would mean he'd pay higher taxes.
Well, I call him Joe the Jackass. He's either a liar or dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks, or both. Income taxes are paid on INCOME, not on the value of your business!!! Joe would pay LESS income tax under Obama's plan, either as a plumbing employee OR as the owner of the business. (We know the business profits far less than $250,000/year, because it is valued at just $280,000.)
Joe the Jackass is just another shaved-head moron coming out of the government-hating incubators of Alaska and Arizona, mouthing Republican talking points even though they cut against his own interests.
Obama should have been all over this BS story. Problem is, Obama doesn't have a clue what plumbers' annual incomes are (neither does Politico), and he's a damn poor debater.
Guess what? Joe 'The Plumber' doesn't even have a plumbers license! And in 2007 the state of Ohio was forced to collect $1182.98 in unpaid taxes from Joe 'The Plumber'! And he's a registered Repug™
Fraud, town hall stooge, RNC plant (shrubbery), phony, right wing whiner, propaganda patriot, call it what you will. Joe "The Plumber's" real name is Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. And he's a figment of the conservative parties imagination.
The story is on the BBC..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7673170.stm
Joe the Plumber aka Joe the Robot with no brain.
Joe t P is as typical an RWA (Right Wing Authoritarian) as you'll ever find. His attitude is one of superiority over all those who do not reinforce his views. His conclusions on whatever issue are not debatable. Facts that counter his argument are ignored and lies, no matter how ludicrous, are embraced if they are in support. These are the people who start wars, steal money from the treasury and demand that you accept their point of view or you will burn in hell for eternity. These people are nothing more than turds in the gene pool of humanity and must never be allowed to be in a position of authority. Everyone suffers their delusions.
For a very very informative, yet short read, about these mutants go to http//:home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
This Professor has been studying the RWA personality for decades. It is the personality that produced Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Churchill, Thatcher, Reagan, Bush, Sharon and many others over the centuries.
Humanity will not flourish until this dysfunctional personality is diluted in some fashion.
Once you read this you will never again ask how or why the RWA could initiate such inhumane and self-defeating acts against humanity.
"He's just a pawn in their game." -- R. Zimmerman
Brian, what a very concise statement on how the Grand Old Predators are using Joe t P.
For those not acquainted with Dylan's "Only A Pawn In Their Game" you need only Google, Lyrics, and read Dylan's words concerning how "peer pressure" (you know, that which we tell our children not to listen to) is used to commit acts against humanity that normal people would not consider.
So this guy does not have a plumbing license, I opened the yellow pages and found 67 ads for plumbers, (individual plumbers, not plumbing business) 22 stated they did not have a license but were insured. So the guy owes back taxes, adds run on TV all day from lawyers who state they can solve your back tax problem for pennies on the dollar. Would they run these EXPENSIVE TV adds if only a few people owed back taxes? So maybe he grossly underestimated the value of the plumbing company he works for, or maybe he didn't and after he hopes to buy it he hopes he can make it into a very large plumbing business (the way the economy is now he would have a better chance to hope he wins the lottery).
Now obama wants to give a tax break to 95% of the working population, 95%!! And only increase taxes on those making over $250,000 a year. The government just gave away over 1 TRILLION $$$ over the past 2 months. Have any of you rocket scientists added up what ALL of obamas promises will cost? Using the fuzziest of fuzzy math there are not enough people in the US making over $250,000 to pay for it all even if they gave 80% of there gross incomes to the government. If there were all of them would vote for McSame and he would win in a landslide.
Wake up you comatose rocket scientists, under obama the treasury will print money like there will be no tomorrow (actually they all ready are). I like to go to Rocky Point (Puerto Penasco) Mexico in Oct. and Nov., it's cheaper than LA or SD and the water is a hell of a lot warmer. I fear after 4 years of obama I will be going to LA or SD because I will not be able to afford Rocky Point, the Mexican Peso will be worth more than the US dollar!!! You just can't keep printing money with out consequences, you "progressives" will have your wish come true, the US will be forced into a 3rd world agrarian economy, joe the plumber will not have to worry about the plumbing business, he'll be too busy growing food to feed his family.
95% will get a tax cut -- Bull Shit.
I think Obama will come to his senses once he's in office. At least I hope he does or we're due for the next Great Depression and the Republicans will definitely do anything to run him out of office by 2012. If Obama at least cuts down military spending, it might not be as bad.
I do agree, however, that neither candidate is even thinking about paying down the national debt. Anyone who does gets persecuted. Just ask Walter Mondale. He took the national debt seriously but was severely relegated to a landslide defeat. The public needs to come clean and unite against these silly tax cuts when in fact the costs of living and doing business far outweigh the amount they'll get from tax cuts.
Update: Never mind. I just found out that you sir are nothing more than a closed-minded Republican puppet parroting the same lies spouted by Limbaugh and Hannity. Where were you when the outrage over the 700b bailout for Wall Street was taking place and what about endless spending in useless wars? You must be the same Snowwolf guy. You can keep dreaming that you'll be "richie rich" while the rest of us moderate and fight for reasonable leadership.
So Joe is a plumber. Perfect.
For a White House that is not very white; knee-deep in human excrement, in fact, who else would you have on staff?
Not to put plumbers down, but in the Trades, plumbers are known to operate under the following motto:
"Shit flows downhill and payday is on Friday".
Maybe, we can add to that statement: "and I certainly hope I don't have to pay higher taxes when I start earning $250,000 a year".
Joe the Plumber is like SnowWolf and unfortunately so many working class stiffs who through ignorance and dumbing down believe that the interests of the top 1% of the population who own 50% of the wealth in this world have the same class interests.
I did some research on that user who calls him/her self wolf123 and I found out that wolf123 is nothing more than a Rush Limbaugh parroting conservative. As a matter of fact, I'll bet it's none other than Snow Wolf setting up another account to pretend it's more than one person if CD allows this. It is this kind of exploitation from the "Joe the Plumbers" and the Sarah Palin Stepford Wives that has caused Main Street to suffer tremendously. Ask "Joe the Plumber" if he supported bailing out Wall Street and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised to hear the answer being a blind "yes".
Nebraska Nathan October 18th, 2008 11:44 am
Would you like to site some examples? I didn't think you could. It is apparent your "research" is a figment of your warped imagination.
For your edification I vote the straight Libertarian ticket, or I don't vote at all, can't see wasting my vote on a moronic dem or repug. It is by your idiotic post apparent you are in the same class as the dimwits in washington. "Research"-- HA, you would not know it if it hit you in the face!!
And I repeat just for you, you dem lover, 95% will get a tax cut -- Bull Shit.
For your own information, cutting down on wasteful military spending which has done nothing but shown us what a failure we've been in Iraq and Afghanistan would help. In addition, a real Libertarian would not give bailouts to Wall Street. And you call yourself a Libertarian? Get lost.
More poop down the pipe from Joe the non-plumber...
Joe Wurzelbacher, a plumber from Holland, Ohio, told Mike Huckabee on his Fox News talk show Saturday that he is upset by the attention and has been unable to work with reporters crowded on his front lawn. THEN MOVE AWAY FROM THE CAMERA, DIPSHIT
"The media's worried about whether I've paid my taxes, they're worried about any number of silly things that have nothing to do with America," Wurzelbacher told the former Republican presidential hopeful on his show, "Huckabee."
NOT PAYING YOUR TAXES ISN'T IMPORTANT TO AMERICA?
Reports of Wurzelbacher's annual earnings suggest he would receive a tax cut rather than an increase under Obama's plan.
"You know, I am a plumber," Wurzelbacher said. "Just a plumber." NO YOUR NOT. YOUR A GUY WHO OWNS A WRENCH, AND DUMB AS A POST. PLUMBERS ARE TRAINED TRADESMEN
Wurzelbacher said he agreed to appear on the show after he received phone calls from friends serving in the military who voiced their support.
"You know, when you can't ask a question of your leaders anymore, that gets scary," he said. YOU DID GET TO ASK YOUR DUMB ASS QUESTION, NOW GO AWAY
JUST IN, JOE THE ALMOST PLUMBER AND SARAH PALIN TO SHARE A ROOM ON THE NEXT SURREAL LIFE!!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
You "progressives" are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter if "Joe the plumber is or is not a plumber, is or is not a rocket scientist or is working at all. Missing the point which is what you "progressives" always do. Slam the guy, call him names, libel and slander him, that's what you people do best. look at and analyze Obamas answer, sorry I forgot "progressives" NEVER - EVER question the LEADERS answer. So I will do it for you.
It has nothing to do with Joe, it is all about Obama's response; he wants to "spread the wealth". In other words, he said he wants to redistribute wealth. Obama thinks people are not due the full benefit of their labor.
In other words, Obama is a communist. The premise of communism is redistribution of wealth, i.e., "To each according to his needs, from each according to his means." Funny how utopians who bemoan the "perversion" of this "noble" cause seem to avoid answering the inevitable question of who exactly gets to decide on other people's needs and means... and "redistribute" accordingly.
I mean, who would make sure it's done right? A Supreme Being they don't believe in, perhaps? Because if it's human beings, what else but perversion could you expect with an ideology that runs so contrary to human nature?
If wealth redistribution epitomizes communism, then the United States scores much higher on communism than the Ukraine did when it was communist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4i6jtrxf8U&feature=related
For a better America vote Libertarian.
Redistribution of wealth is the goal of all political activity, only the "beneficiaries" change.
The sad fact is, class-warfare by the rich hurts everyone, even the rich if measured in an absolute sense, since trickle-up stagnates the economy.
At least redistribution downwards benefits almost everyone in society, through the multiplier effect of economic circulation.
Well said. Thank you
Joe the loser, sorry the plumber saga shows how low our standards have become. Years ago we would have hidden this creature, today he is on the front page of newspapers. He is an insult to plumbers and more, I will not go there. I really feel bad for his kid.
I am starting to believe that there is a relationship between shaved heads and ignorance, maybe intelligence is in the hair and not the brain !!! Scientists should look into this phenomenon.
I heard that he was for the Irak war, what is he doing here at 34? he should be there fixing latrines. I am disgusted, please tell me he is not real.