Twitter
StumbleUpon
Facebook
Delicious
Digg
Newsvine
Google
Yahoo
TechnoratiGroup Combats Military Recruitment In Schools
EAST WENATCHEE - The "counter recruiters" are on a mission; their fight is over the military's access to students at school.
![[Marion Ward, president of the Seattle-based group Washington Truth in Recruiting. (Photo: Rachel Schleif)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/marionward1006.jpg "marionward1006.jpg")
"Is it the mission of schools to provide for the national defense? That's the question," said Marion Ward, president of Washington Truth in Recruiting.
The Seattle-area non-profit held its second workshop this year in East Wenatchee, trying to warn parents about a little-known requirement of the federal No Child Left Behind Act.
The federal law mandates schools to release student contact information - addresses, cell and home phone numbers - upon the request of military recruiters. Schools that refuse risk losing federal funding.
Schools must also honor opt-out requests from students and parents who want their names left off the list.
"To me, this is just as important as the abortion issue or teaching evolution; it's a core moral issue," said Todd Boyle, a Kirkland father and WATIR member. "The schools' job is to provide my student an education, not to introduce them to outside agencies, especially military recruiters."
The group told seven parents, activists and educators at the workshop Saturday about some tactics military recruiters use statewide: Taking students off campus to treat them for lunch, dinner or paintball; setting up rock-climbing walls at schools or local parks; becoming involved in after-school sports to form relationships with children; or taking students out of class to a military-themed trailer parked outside the school.
Local military recruiters say they carry out their duty with integrity and respect, and they include families as much as possible.
"We don't want parents to believe we're stealing their kids away without telling them," said Sgt. 1st Class Alejandro Fierro, the Army's head recruiter in Chelan and Douglas counties. "It's important to us to invite the parents and see what they believe."
The Navy, Marines, Air Force Army and state National Guard have recruiters based in the Wenatchee Valley. The branches operate separately from each other.
No military recruiters attended the meeting Saturday; they were interviewed earlier that week.
"They have the right to assemble," Fierro said Thursday. "That's why we're in this uniform, to give people that right. I'm all for it."
The active-duty Army has the largest recruiting force, with three officers covering schools from Chelan to Leavenworth.
The Army will typically recruit three students a year from larger schools, such as Eastmont and Wenatchee, and one from smaller high schools.
"The young people we recruit, when 9/11 happened they were 11 and 12," Fierro said. "All they know is a country at war."
Recruiters typically visit schools about once a month, where they stand around and wait for students to approach them, Fierro said. Recruiters also visit the mall and other places kids hang out.
They'll also cold-call students at home, and if they're not interested recruiters won't call again.
"There's no need to embellish. Everything can be checked in our policies or the Web site," Fierro said. "We tell them up front, there's a 60- to 70-percent chance you're going to Iraq."
At Wenatchee and Eastmont high schools, each military branch is allowed to set up a table in the commons area once a month, on separate days if they choose. Recruiters also attend events such as open house, career fairs and Veteran's Day.
Wenatchee High School will notify parents of opting out of the military's directory in every monthly Panther Paws newsletter this year, guidance counselor Mary Parsley said Friday.
About 20 Wenatchee students already submitted opt-out letters this school year, Parsley said.
Wenatchee parent Mike Bangs said his son opted out as a freshmen and hasn't received a recruiter phone call since.
"My son is a sophomore and high school I've talked to him for years and his friends," Bangs said at the workshop on Saturday. He said he told his son: "Don't just sign up without telling me you've studied history and understand the people who have the authority to put you in harm's way, and also allow you the ability to kill others. Understand their reasons. Would you support them if you really knew?"
Laura Jaecks, a Wenatchee School Board member and parent, said she respected WATIR's views but her experience was different.
"On the positive side of military recruiters, my son was very focused on being a Marine," Jaecks said. "Through his experience of having exposure to the different recruiters, what he found was the Marines were not really in alignment with what his values are and what he wanted to do."
Her son is an airman first class in the Air Force Special Forces, Pararescue unit.
At Eastmont, the opt-out is announced over the daily bulletin, Principal Mark Marney said Thursday. About 12 students opted out this year.
"We've never had complaints," Marney said. "We don't put them in classroom and we don't interrupt school day for them. They come during lunch hours when kids have freedom to partake or walk away."
97 Comments so far
Show AllLet the inner city kids join gangs instead. Who cares, they are brown skinned and nice progressives never go to the inner city anyway.
IDIOTS. The military is the ONLY chance some of these kids have to make something of their lives.
Which, in my opinion, is exactly why the system is stacked against them. Some option . . . stay forever in the poverty created by our predatory and unfair capitalist system, or become cannon fodder for the military-industrial complex.
I have seen so many young people turn their lives around in the Military...it almost SHOULD be Mandatory but I no longer support a Draft...
Progressives are anti-Military because they are ignorant of the Military and its a shame...
I remember when the Seattle School System got that retired General to run it...they were very afraid and basically mocking before he arrived and they came to love that man very much...the Military isn't at all as the Radicals and Progressives THINK they know it
Some folks will never listen. They know all about it. They read it.
No Child Left Behind, indeed.
I don't subscribe to the silly anti-military BS posted here, most of it seems unrealistic.
But I fully support not allowing recruiters into high schools except on a "career" day along with all the other's.
Other than that no military recruiter has any business talking to a high school student unless that kid comes to the recruiting office on his own. In fact I don't believe a kid should be allowed to sign up till he has graduated or left school. 18 is soon enough to be making decisions like that.
But I fully support not allowing recruiters into high schools except on a "career" day along with all the other's.
I think thats a very fair position and I agree with you
Maybe we should rejoin and get our Ferrari's. I really liked Doglegs terms of service.
"No one with any sense castigates the rank and file, many of us on the left served as well. My own service led me to my progressive politics in fact. Using patriotism as an excuse to blind yourself to the way our military has been missused by the leaders of this nation serves no one and accomplishes nothing."
I stole this from a poster above because I thought it made excellent sense and to which I'd add the thought that there are lots of differing opinon's and perhaps we can express them without getting too personal.
Also..SnowWolf, Dogleg posted some terms of service that sounded pretty good to me, whats wrong with those?
Did he?...
I was trying to sift some sense out of all the personal attacks...I think he has some anger issues...(and he's allowed to teach kids?)
I guess I'll go back and reread
OOps...double post
A Ferrari?...Where do I sign?
Too Funny...When I was an E-2 living in the Barracks my take home was like $152.00 every 2 weeks...but I always seemed to have money
in fact I was able to afford a used 1974 Dodge Truck...God I loved that thing...ran good
pnolan
Anyone got any advice about what can be done to get Jr ROTC out of my high school? Recruiters are transient pests but the those pimply kids running around in mock uniform are a persistent threat not to mention their adult mentors...
"As a teacher, I just ran a truck over your head. I know...!"
you're a Teacher?...I pity your students
Well you know what they say:
"If you can read this, Thank a Teacher
If you're reading it in English, Thank a Soldier"
"Snoflake" (I like that one better than the "other")------------
A "Lifer" hey?
When I was in the USMC---lifers were called "flies"------------
All they did was "eat shit, and bother people"-------
but I bet you wuz a different "lifer" when you were a "lifer"..................
Nah...I GAVE Shit and Bothered People...
We've had a great to do in Australia because an artist was allowed onto a school property to look for child models to pose for nude photographs.
To allow the military onto school property to seek converts for their killing cause is the most bizarre and reprehensible thing I think I've heard of. Is it any wonder that America is such a war-mongering nation!
I am disgusted. Kids should be protected from such evil predators!
P.S. Is the U.S. ready for the American Revolution? Check my blog.
www.dangerouscreation.com
snowflake, you are mistaken about...
Well actually it means "Uncle Sugar" is paying my mortgage every month and my "Tricare" Retired Medical is $115 a quarter...
what you should actually be saying is "taxpayers" are paying "your" mortgage because "you" were a hired gun for twenty years...
you might have "served your country", but somehow for alot of servicemembers, and you are such a great example of this; this translates to being some sort of elitist privelege to be flaunted above the heads of us "lefty peasant weakwilled/cowardly radical" types. am i wrong?
dogleg-you lost me at
DogLeg October 6th, 2008 9:54 pm
yes, toddboyal is mistaken about the charter schools, because, yes they are just another privitization scheme; but the divisive langauge does nothing to help your cause, in fact it just renders your previous good points to snowflake mute.
lets not be "lefty crazies", lets be "sensible progressives"
there is a difference...
homeward-angel,
You have my respect for your diplomacy. However, I do not subscribe to a diplomacy of understating a position that is not negotiable to begin with. When a two bit mentality who was not elected, appointed by the SCOTUS while interfering in state rights, and from there on conducts his administration as a common criminal, while systematically dismembering every Federal agency, and one of his boobs jumps in here with his propaganda, I do not have to be so civil that the effectiveness of my thought becomes that of a neutered politician. I am not a politician and I will not continue to suffer the bankrupt ideas of these lackeys.
And, I will not entertain your accusatory guilt trip on your perception of my being divisive. You should turn your head and see the real culprit. The one you would like me to mmm help release his binding of a steel strap.
Sorry. Ask someone else who may possess a weaker spirit here. Perhaps yourself.
High schools have underaged minors. Teenagers. And high schools are a universal and mandatory institution. All the teens are there.
At birth the human being lacks capacity for critical reasoning. By the early teens we achieve some degree of capability and judgment. In this society we have a thing called the age of consent for sex, or for drinking alcohol, or binding contracts, or for marriage.
You can argue about the age, but not the principle. Underaged minors are going to be protected by parents, and by society.
Some teenagers are more mature than others. But laws must be based on an objective test. So, the law for contracts is age 18. And the age for enlistment is 18. So, military recruiters and other outside agencies have no business talking with underaged minors in the public schools, since they cannot enlist anyway.
The real character of these recruiters' activities is ideological indoctrination. It is marketing, and grooming teenagers towards the day when they are 18 and can join the military.
Recruiters are not supposed to be in the schools. They are not part of the school. They are not qualified, they have not passed any certification. And their message is not approved, as curriculum. The whole question is laughable anyway, since they have a conflict of interest. Or perhaps it is more correct to say, they have only one purpose: Their purpose is to get recruits, not to educate young people.
Long story short: The K-12 public schools are for education of underaged minors; and that's that. Neither the high schools, nor
the students, have *any* responsibility for fighting wars.
School districts should ban military recruiters for two additional reasons -- their untruthful propositions to students, and the large scale illegal and wrongful activities of the military. The U.S. has attacked numerous countries since WW2 who never attacked the U.S.
Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution makes treaties of the United States binding as the supreme law of the land. The UN Charter prohibits war other than self defense, and the US military knows this, but they obey all orders, even illegal orders and make up rationalizations afterward. The U.S. military is the biggest threat to our liberty today. They gladly impose martial law on entire populations outside U.S. jurisdiction. They never seem to doubt their right to do so-- arrogantly, they say "its for the benefit of these little people". They will say the exact same thing when they occupy American cities, since they exhibit neither critical thinking nor morality, nor adherence to laws.
All the wars since at least WW2 have NOT been self defense, they've been aggressions, the US has killed millions of innocent people in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. who never attacked America. 90% of the people who are killed, are noncombatants. Children, elderly and bystanders. The US congress, US presidency, US intel, and US military are institutions out of control. They are in an illegal status, violating laws and treaties. We need a constitutional amendment that the U.S. military be used ONLY to defend the territory that is our jurisdiction.
Peace activists have never won the political battle directly, in elections. Public beliefs and desires have been set long before, by the institutions of culture that control so many people's beliefs. So, we have to get the message changed in those three institutions of mass culture--- and power yields nothing without a struggle. Literally we have to challenge the credibility of preachers, journalists, and WATIR is challenging educators, school boards, and principals in the high schools on the broad array of omissions, misrepresentations and militarist doctrines they are pushing through the agency of these RECRUITERS. Tell your school board bluntly-- if you don't get these recruiters out of here, we are joining the Charter Schools movement-- WHERE IS MY VOUCHER, to set up our own schools.
Would you like me to explain to your feeble mindedness, the corruptness of your 'Charter School' delusion? How it is nothing but a corporate power grab of taxpayer money, lower pay for teachers, higher profits for Bush's incestuous family and their disgusting family? How they disguise racial problems and poverty as the 'keystone' of education. How public education deprives them? Then when these slime have the control, how the tune changes to higher tuition, more school hours, but no improvement. Teachers quit for lack of pay and benefits, while suffering micro-management of each minute of class time. Why students behavior becomes increasingly agitated, irritated and disruptive, because they aren't learning to think, to be a human being with a functioning brain rather than a 19th century example of a Charles Dickens' tale of stern educators with hardwood paddles and no inspiration for teaching beyond a sick disciplinary sadism.
I am involved. I will see you never get a voucher for anything but Velveeta cheese or your fucking Social Security. And if you whine one word, we'll put your free market mentality Social Security funds, one by one, into every loser publicly traded stock, commodity we can find. We'll drive your puritanism, your greed, your mindless parroting so deep into the Earth, you will be shaving in hell, your wife, if you have one, will wash her hair with molten lava. Evolutionary clones of dinosaurs will play with your clean shaven corpses as a dog plays with a caught lizard.
Nice thought, heh?
Scum.
What a looser.
DogLeg, get off your soapbox for a second and read what Todd had to say instead of veering off into your rant against Charter Schools. I don't like the Charter School scam either but Todd does have a point. If the public schools don't start protecting our youth and doing what we are paying our taxes for...namely educating our children by teaching them to think critically.By allowing free rein to the military recruiters they are failing us.
Please, let's stay on the topic of recruiter access to our children!
Peggy
Peggy, Peghead,
You could be confused with a certain Alaskan that suffers the inadequacies you have. Read all these comments on every article here before you start jumping on my reality like you know a fucking thing beyond your own nose.
See. I believe in =rights. I'll jump on your incomplete attention like any one else's.
As for my 'soapbox,' and your empty headed definition of rant, Toddy-shmookums doesn't have a point. He has an ill-formed opinion spoon fed to him by the corporate shills who control him and he is too stupid to see it. And, evidently, you are too.
Peace, toadheads.
Wow! I guess you need some psychiatric help. I am truly sorry that you cannot abide reading anything with which you do not agree. By the way, I'll put my J.D. up against your obvious lack of education any day, son. Crude language is never necessary to make a point; but then I'm not able to figure out just what your point is in the majority of your posting.
Namaste.
Peggy
Would you care? Believe me, my ebullience is not pathological. But my psychiatric records, like any one's medical records, are irrelevant and confidential. I am glad, not impressed, you have a J.D. I won't bother with what accredited school awarded it. I could care less. I have friends who are lawyers and they passed the bar on their first try. I know others with their J.D. and haven't passed the bar in 25 years.
If you want to impress someone, go elsewhere. Your comment, addressing what you perceive as my lack of education, reveals only your own lack of knowledge. And, since I am a complete and whole 61 years of age, I will accept your compliment to being your 'son.' You should know, however, both of my parents are long turned to ash.
People who complain of crude language usually are avoiding the real issue. But it helps support their narrow view of what life is. I love it when they pick up the wrong fork.
Tata, dear.
Crude language is admissable--I woudl say. Like Carlin's seven words.
Cruel language is never necessary. I dont know what the problem is tonight. Everybody lose alot of money, or what?
I detest charter schools--but I dont believe that that was the point.
Perhaps crude language is permissible when it actually makes a point. Gratuitous profanity when discussing military recruiting in public schools seems quite juvenile. DogLeg truly does seem quite unbalanced in most of his remarks on the subject.
As for losing money, no, that is not a problem for me. I am more concerned about the loss of our rights.
Peggy
I love that vacuous, religiously inspired, "Gratuitous profanity when discussing military recruiting in public schools.." Oh, sweetie, I am so unbalanced I have dreams of Constantine conquering the suburbs of this great state of Republican immigrants from east of the Rocky Mountains. Can you see that dream?
No.
You will never see that dream.
But I won't hurt your feelings. You figure it out, plug in that holy J.D., see if it coughs up anything more than braggadocio for the greasy haired 'sons,' looking for Ms. Goodbar.
If you cannot laugh at your own self importance, run for President.
Did you even read what I wrote? I was, actually, stating that I thought profanity was ok--its necessary sometimes, but, that I thought he was being cruel.
I was implying that maybe dogleg was grouchy , maybe because he/she lost money. you know, kindve a snide remark, but hinting that they do not always sound like this//
Never mind...too bad there's no inflection online. I guess its not good to bring up right now, anyway. I had no intention of offending you. Quite the contrary
they aim for the poor
to fight the dirty war
because theyre the ones easily bought in
with promises of gifts unseen and such self esteem
not found in their broken community.
Statistics and research has proved it again and again, the military engagements we perform only lead to more terrorism, for ourselves and worldwide. If we wanted to defend ourselves, we would pay retribution to all those nations we murdered, sucked the life out of, or whose land we stole altogether...Or at the very least just get the heck out of people's business instead of imposing our business.
The article noted below may be of interest.
Transcendent warfare: New Army manual, research report are valuable
Joint Recon Study Group
http://jointreconstudygroup.blogspot.com
Oct. 6, 2008
Two new documents by and about the U.S. Army are sparking discussion and debate about various elements of the Army's missions and future directions.
Both documents, a field manual and a research study report, expand perspectives about achieving short-term and long-term success in various kinds of missions.
Taken together, along with other comprehensive considerations, these views might be considered part of an “outside-the-box” and valuable concept sometimes referred to as “transcendent warfare.”
Article continues at: http://jointreconstudygroup.blogspot.com
Yeah, man. I am tuned into this fucking trip. Whoooeee. I can just see this highly evolved scam of behavioral science thinking their model has revealed any human being's minute by minute response, involvement with life, on instant demand. Just point the wand, the data jumps up with predictive % of future behavior on 1103 possible human responses to any stimulus.
Damn. I can hardly wait for that cluster fuck, so I can watch it eat the fools who think they don't have a banana shoved up their ass.
Are you ok??
Honestly, I have seen your posts other times--what is with you tonight? Are you high? That';s fine, but, maybe go take a nap.
The US didn't have a standing army during peacetime until after WW2. Up 'til then we had wars every few years, usually at our instigation. Before WW2 it was called the War Department, and at least it was an honest appellation. The US hasn't been attacked on its own soil since 1941, and even that is suspect considering the US stole Hawaii -- excuse me, annexed it, just as it has stolen territory since before we were officially a country.
Many of the "Christians" in this country seem to forget that one commandment of theirs, "Thou shalt not kill", and think it is perfectly okay to drop bombs on weddings and other gatherings and concentrations of non-Anglo looking people. They're the enemy, they attacked us, America is #1... Bullshit! The US government and the people they really work for are a pack of lying thieves. They sermonize a lot about spreading democracy when they are really exporting fear and false promises.
Google "military", "recruiter", "abuse" and you might be amazed at how many hits you get. Or maybe not, for people on CD, we are mostly preaching to the choir. There is no reason we need a military, this country or any other. After thousands of years of civilization, the best we solution we can come up with for international disputes is still war. Killing people, for any reason, is wrong and this especially goes for mass murder which is what war is.
"The US didn't have a standing army during peacetime until after WW2."
Where did you get that idea? It's certainly not true.
"Thou shalt not kill"
The commandment reads "Thou shalt not commit murder" to be correct.
"There is no reason we need a military"
I would suggest you rethink that position. There are some here that share it, but for obvious reasons I think its evident we need a military. I'm not suggesting anything other than you do a bit of research into why we have our military and what they really do. No critism of your opinon, just disagreement with that.
The problem with this policy after reading about a little over a year ago is that the recruiters target less affuent school districts. If they targeted the more affluent school districts they would be asked to leave alot faster than a less affluent district, furthermore the more affluent the district the less likely they are to recieve Federal Aid from the No Child Left Behind Act. It is just another way for the rich to have the less fortunate fight for them so thier children are not put in harms way. Remember who is part of Bush`s Base, the Have`s, not the Have Not`s.
As 'snowflake' scratches his non-existent genitals, from too much saltpeter in military food, he attempts to raise his voice, but not his brain pan. He stutters uncontrollably as he blurts,
"Myadsbrxomming toward a closet of womens' panties, and thsx amy dismal truth."
Where upon he is dragged, moaning and twitching, to the nearest psychiatric ward.
Within 15 minutes he has been hosed with all manner of drugs to relax him, make him think, reduce his resistance to actually thinking beyond his bellybutton...Then 5 amazonian beauties descend upon his useless virility with leeches.
You know the rest.
Copyrighted, 10.06.2008
I truly enjoy your Buffoonery....
You would.
"If they targeted the more affluent school districts they would be asked to leave alot faster than a less affluent district,"
What would make you believe that?...they recruit from all sorts of Schools
SnowWolf Is your real name george w. bush, the acid must still be in your bloodstream.
You really think preppie schools are getting No Child's Behind Left Funds?
They have lowered IQ standards. They have lowered the number with HS diplomas. They pay huge bonuses. They set up Junior ROTC in junior h s. (NCBL is just a front to introduce nilitary boot camp to minorities--uniforms and all)
BTW--If you think that the military is so great, why are yo working for a private contractor?
Big Jim,
Very well said and accurate.
The green veteran solution:
I'm a Navy veteran of the cold war and run up to 1999. I was a seaman, corpsman and surgical technician. Must of my time at sea was be in a long line of navy cruisers, air craft carriers, battle ships, and fast frigates burning fuel like it was free. What were we doing? Babysitting the oil tankers in the Persian Gulf, that's what! Every day for four months we would cruise up and down the Gulf until we were replaced by another battle group. This has gone on now since the late 1970's, None Stop, by the way.
I've been against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from the start. I've protested in Washington, DC., four times. Fort Benning, Georgia twice. Crawford, Texas for 26 days. I also participated in the Veterans and Survivors March From Mobile, ALA. to New Orleans , LA. with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. None of it changed the course of the war. Sure, these protests helped to change the populations opinions about the war and the leadership we elected. But the wars continue.
The war continues and the Military needs to keep replacing those soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen who like me refused to reenlist for endless wars for oil.
I hope that the people will allow counter recruiting in all schools across the country. If we don't. We will not have a well informed population of kids. They deserve to hear both sides of the military service story and form their own opinions.
Don't get me wrong. I'm proud of the service I gave this country. I'm pro defense. I'm just not pro war for oil or religion! When both sides of congress agree on continuing wars of aggression. I will oppose them both.
I don't think the peace movement will ever end this war. Not until they come up with a way to fuel our economy without the oil from the middle east. And it being traded in dollars as opposed to Euros!
I don't think they will prevent anyone from joining the military either. Not until they can get everyone a college educations or training for a real job. Otherwise, sooner or later, the recruiter is going to start looking like the only option.
That being said, I would like to offer a solution to the counter recruiting issue.
Allow veterans to train high school grads and college age students to make bio diesel and use it to do disaster relief and conservation corps work. Teach the veterans how to recycle all the used cooking oil in the city's. The Veterans could lease lease the to the restaurants. Veteran and their trainees would drop it off and pick it up and use it to fuel the vehicles and equipment to clear rivers, bayous, non indigenous plants and power the relief efforts after natural disasters.
This would give veterans a chance to continue to serve their country. It would give military age people an opportunity to learn a green and sustainable trade from a green veteran. And if they still want to join the military by all means lets them. It is after all, a free country.
That is until we really need the Middle Eastern Oil. Then, the house and senate will have institute the draft and there won't be an option of service vs education.
This is not just a shot in the dark. Check out http://www.bioliberty.net
Sounds like a plan...How are you going to get the Islamists to stop?...I don't think they want to make biodiesel...
They want Nuclear...strictly for peaceful purposes
Well...
As I am fond of saying
SOMEBODIES gotta Defend America, the Hippies ain't gonna do it
If it wasn't for our greedy politicians, America would have no need to be defended. Probably ALL of the attacks on America were caused by the CIA's black-ops division but blamed on outside groups. Our enemies were created by our Politians but it is the uneducated and the gullible that go to fight the wars that they start because wars are big money to these Politicians.
I received many phone calls from recruiters, when my son was in H.S. Not one was honest with me when I aswered the phone. One recruiter, when I asked "who is calling" told me he was a friend of my son. I asked him his name and it was a name I didn't know. I know ALL of my son's friends. I asked him how he knew my son (I was literally drilling him because I knew it was a recruiter). He finally confessed to me he was a recruiter. After telling him my son doesn't have any friends that are recruiters, I gave him a piece of my mind for lying to me so he could by-pass me to get to my son. Sneeky snake...
Another recruiter called and announced himself as being with a branch of the service, when I told him my son wasn't home. He then started his schpiel how my son would get a free college education and could travel the world. I told him if my son enlisted his travel would end on his first trip...straight to Iraq. I told him my son's college education was already taken care of and he travels already without the high risk of getting killed or killing others. I didn't raise my son to be a trained killer of innocent people for our fat cat Politicians. I told the recruiter if being in the military was so wonderful, why wasn't he in Iraq? The truth: They need to fulfill a quota of recruites so they themselves don't go to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I intercepted many calls from recruiters and not one of them was honest. Fortunately, I had no fears my son would enlist, as he is well aware that the real terrorists are sitting in the White House and our Congress. Now, if we could just get rid of them...we have a chance of experiencing real peace in the world.
What have all of the wars of aggression which have been perpetrated on others by the US through our military to do with Defending America? When did Grenada threaten us? Good grief, man, read some real history. Lay off Fox News, please.
Peggy
This guy is a junior Rambo-super lifer Peggy. Back off Rambo!! Down boy!
Did you have your plastic surgery yet to make you look like Sylvester Stallone?
Maybe you could play his body double.
And neither are you 'snowflake.'
Whatever Dude
That's right 'snowflake.'
I'm the Dude.
And you are the somnambulist.
Whenever I see a discussion about military recruiters it always seems to revolve
around "we are at war" or "defending the country" etc. Rubbish, we aren't at war
and the military has nothing to do with defending the country, it never did. Wars
are never fought for political reasons, they are fought for economic reasons.
Leaders from the begining have known that if you tell a citizen he has to fight and die in a war so you can get filthy rich he might object. So you create an enemy, tell him he's under attack and then tell him that he has to a patriot and kill a complete stranger you identify or he'll never be safe again. Sound familiar? It should, standard "Empire" play book. The little detail they leave out is that the "enemy" always seems to live over a sea of oil or a mountain of copper or bauxite. What a coinsidence huh? So we aren't fighting a war. We are engaged in
a war crime in trying to steal geo-strategic control of the energy resources
in the Caspian basin. We are defending the profits of Exxon, nothing more.
These are the guys, BTW who made $40B last quarter but still need tax breaks while
you get hammered into the ground at every turn. The US government is really the worlds biggest organized crime syndicate when you think about it. You have the "bosses", they are the plutocrats who own this country. Then you have the consigliere's, the politicians that are beholden to the bosses because they vet them and let then get "elected". You want proof of that just take a look at the $700B bank heist that happened last week. Usually a bank heist is when the banks get robbed, but in this case they did the robbing. Overwhelming public opposition and still it passes. If that doesn't fail the "sniff" test, nothing will. They also give the public the illusion that they actually choose their leaders. They don't. Then you get to the enforcers. They are the US military. They are nothing more than hired killers who pave the way for the "bosses" financial interests. Don't believe me? try looking up the real history of Hawaii, the extermination of the Moro people in the Phillipines in 1901-2, who over threw President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954, who was behind operation Ajax in Iran in 1953, Allende in 72. The list is long. So when your child expresses any interest in the military, tell him the truth about what his job is really going to be and who really benefits should he die or get maimed.
Fred54
Well the sad truth is that today's US Military is no longer about defending this country. It is about invading, destroying and occupying third world countries with lucrative mineral deposits. It is about empire.
It is a pity that this country could not heed Ike's warning back in 1961.
Don't forget all that Afghanistan opium, boys and girls.
And if you think it is a joke: where is it?
Afghanistan produces like 90% of the worlds' opium.
Would you leave it lying around for the tribal leaders? No. You would confiscate for the global market. The press would say the U.S. is cracking down on the drug market producers. Since that is all a journalist would see or know.
Now, why is it we don't get to see those coffins, body bags from the Middle East?
It would not matter.
There are plenty of ways to filter it into civilization.
I can smell that money.
Can't you?
"It is a pity that this country could not heed Ike's warning back in 1961."
Yeah...maybe we should have just lost WWII and not had to shoulder the responsibility to make sure nothing like that ever happened again...would have been SO much easier...
Please explain this nonsensical response. Perhaps you don't understand the Eisenhower quote? You really believe that all of our invasions over the past fifty years have been justifiable? Please tell me which of the dozens of countries posed an imminent threat of invasion of our country? You may have served 20 years in the military but you haven't done much reading of history.
I am grateful to groups like WaTiR who take the time to get information out to towns large and small that the recruiters have much more access to the children of this nation than they realize. I do not believe that recruiters should be allowed to approach 14 year old children. If any other stranger approached a 14 year old they'd be in a heap of trouble....
Peggy
More stupidity from 'snowflake.' Ahemmm. Sweetheart you need to get a grip on the ole cajones, hombre! Your brains are leaking out your ass. And...
Guess what?
Everybody here knows it!
Chuckle.
But, I hear our war hero pressednuts is givin' away them real pretty 'whatchem a call its medals over at Wallmart today. Sheeit with your 20 yers of manifest stoopidity he might promote ya to, what? Corporal? Damn, duder, reu-up for another 20.
How come Lefties always resort to personal attack when they have no legitimate answer?
If you think this is somehow making your shallow little arguments seem superior...tsk tsk
Cause we just wish our country loved us as much as we love it!
How much money did you make this year? The Wall Sr. slump doesnt apply to WMDs, right? Doin' pretty good there, in the daddy warbucks market?
It is toooo much funnn to wait for your viral mouthed reply of infinite, cosmic knowledge, duder!
YOU, however, are not usually not such an asshole. I say you are high. What say you?
You must stop this consorting, no matter how emotionally purging it may seem!!lol
Truly--are you high?
K-delphi,
It matters not one wit, whether I imbibe any muse. What matters is, "Am I enjoying this verbal crotch rocket, irrespective of the bastards that have no problem destroying the decency of this country, but then whine when called to the carpet?"
I'm happy you are paying attention.
In the public park next to our town's HS, I watched an Army recruiter in uniform walk up to a round-faced young student who was sitting alone at a picnic table eating his lunch.
The boy couldn't have been more than 14 years old. He looked confused and intimidated, as though he didn't know how to say "no" to a conversation with an adult- a man in a military uniform lurking, then looming over him.
Our kids are coerced, seduced with free swag and false promises and all too often outright lied to. They have recruiters of one branch of the armed forces or the other (sometimes more than one at a time) on campus nearly EVERY week.
Our local counter-recruiters (no surprise) are lucky to have a handful of people (sometimes veterans) able to come in to the schools 1-2x a YEAR to offer another viewpoint.
There are many ways to serve our country: Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, Vista, Habitat for Humanity. And many ways to do good in the world: through church groups like the Mennonites and other pacifist faiths.
Yet, it is a struggle for kids to hear about these non-lethal alternatives to community service.
Maybe the military is right for some, but isn't it only fair that our youth have the full menu of options and good, reliable advice?
The military should NOT have easy and TOTAL access to our kids!
I think they should have as much access as the anti-military people...I would have no problem with letting both sides be heard...
There should not be military recruiters on a high school campus PERIOD, no ifs, ands or Bush's ass. If the Federal government wants to take away taxpayer money for not allowing it, just go ahead and by the time the media or a hell of a lot of local taxpayers start treating their Congress people like total shitheads, we will see how long it lasts.
As for you, 'snowflake,' twenty years in the service only means one thing, "Dumb as a fucking brick."
As for you, 'snowflake,' twenty years in the service only means one thing, "Dumb as a fucking brick."
Well actually it means "Uncle Sugar" is paying my mortgage every month and my "Tricare" Retired Medical is $115 a quarter...
Thats actually what it means
Heh, heh, heh.
As a teacher, I just ran a truck over your head. I know...!
No. I don't want to make you feel bad about your retirement and bennies, but, gee, I'll match mine to yours and my net worth!
This sort of thing has always perplexed me...
I guess I'm biased...I had a reasonably good 20 year Military Career that I am proud of...
SOMEBODY has to defend America...they whined about stopping the draft and getting an All Volunteer Force and now they seem to be saying they don't want that either...
I have no problem with presenting alternative views to Military Service...I do get offended when they try to throw the recruiters off campus though
we are either going to have a draft or a volunteer force...we are not NOT going to have a Military...that would be preposterous
It was a mistake to get rid of the draft. Senator Gravel is making up for that mistake with his National Initiative for Democracy.
Well I guess I need to point out that it was the anti-military "Left" that urged an end to the Draft...and an All Volunteer Force...which is what they got...
in fact they got the most professional and best trained Military in the History of Earth...One might Argue that Sparta had that title but Spartans weren't volunteers...they were born into it.
The Military doesn't want a draft because they know it would degrade it...so good luck with that one...
I think every young person coming out of High School but not wanting College should volunteer for 3 or 4 years ...I see them daily...they grow...they get responsible...they get pride and self esteem...yeah it can be a dangerouns job but probably not the most dangerous...
O.K. 'Snowflake,'
On a few conditions, you ready?
Disease-free prostitutes three times a month, paid for by the religious right televangical daily collections via any media.
Primo food from world famous chefs, paid for by right wing Christians and Congress persons,
Unlimited supply of single malt, Islay Scotch.
Good to excellent smoke,:)
No interference from any green horn 2nd and 1st Lts.
Automatic Commissioned Officer at the rank of Captain and above status for any person absconded by the gov. with a B.A./B.S. degree. Any person with an advanced degree is brought in with at least a Major rank or higher. No bootcamp, no O.C.S., no humiliation by 'bend over, spread'em' exams, 24 hour drill marching and physical training, increased ration of single malt, Islay Scotch and increased THC ration and quality 'Spiffies.'
How's that for a start? Oh, yeah, and at least a salary of $6000.00 Euros a month with full med, dental, 80% retirement after 3 years, full legal representation for any and all transactions, free gasoline for life, solar powered housing being architecturally designed by non-military architects...let's see, did I leave anything out?
Yeah. A Ferrari, any, with a mid-rear engined V12, with a list price of at least $250,000.00 Euros, free, insurance and maintenance paid by the Oral Roberts Foundation and/or any combination of religious right wing entities not paying taxes for their 'freedom of religion.'
O.K. 'Snowflake,'
On a few conditions, you ready?
Disease-free prostitutes three times a month, paid for by the religious right televangical daily collections via any media.
Primo food from world famous chefs, paid for by right wing Christians and Congress persons,
Unlimited supply of single malt, Islay Scotch.
Good to excellent smoke,:)
No interference from any green horn 2nd and 1st Lts.
Automatic Commissioned Officer at the rank of Captain and above status for any person absconded by the gov. with a B.A./B.S. degree. Any person with an advanced degree is brought in with at least a Major rank or higher. No bootcamp, no O.C.S., no humiliation by 'bend over, spread'em' exams, 24 hour drill marching and physical training, increased ration of single malt, Islay Scotch and increased THC ration and quality 'Spiffies.'
How's that for a start? Oh, yeah, and at least a salary of $6000.00 Euros a month with full med, dental, 80% retirement after 3 years, full legal representation for any and all transactions, free gasoline for life, solar powered housing being architecturally designed by non-military architects...let's see, did I leave anything out?
Yeah. A Ferrari, any, with a mid-rear engined V12, with a list price of at least $250,000.00 Euros, free, insurance and maintenance paid by the Oral Roberts Foundation and/or any combination of religious right wing entities not paying taxes for their 'freedom of religion.'
"This sort of thing has always perplexed me..."
I suspect you are perplexed because, overall, you see the US military as a force for good and not a force for evil. Read books like Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" or Chalmers Johnson's "The Sorrows of Empire" or even John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" and perhaps, whether you agree with them or not, you will no longer be perplexed as to why others hold the opinions they do.
"I had a reasonably good 20 year Military Career that I am proud of..."
It always concerns me when someone personalizes the discussion in this way. I surmise from your statement that you believe your military service contributed, even in a small way, to what was good for the US and the values of its people. While I respect your good intentions, and I do NOT criticize you for "serving your country", my belief is that the US military, in many circumstances, has been a force for empire and evil. The criticism comes, not against those who serve, but rather against those who define the missions.
I noted your comment above about "Islamists." Why do you think these "Islamists" chose to attack the US? Do they hate us because most Americans follow a different religion? Do they hate us because we have a culture they don't approve of? That's the kind of nonsense that was sold to the American people. Notice that they didn't attack Thailand or India or Bolivia. The US was attacked because it is an empire that deploys its military into sovereign nations for the purpose of exploiting foreign peoples and their resources.
"SOMEBODY has to defend America..." Yes, somebody does. The first step in defending American has to be to stop the recruitment and deployment of "empire forces" that have made all of us far less safe. I'm all for a strong defense ... a very strong defense. To argue that the US military has been assembled and deployed for DEFENSIVE purposes, however, badly fails to understand our history. The US military is an offensive force ... a very offensive force.
It is not clear exactly what the appropriate size of military forces should be. What is clear, however, is that a truly defensive force would be many multiples smaller than the current offensive, two war troop levels we currently have.
"They whined about stopping the draft and getting an All Volunteer Force and now they seem to be saying they don't want that either..."
Whined??? Is that really necessary??? Many of us "exercised our Constitutional rights", as good citizens should, to protest the draft. We did so for many reasons. The main reason, however, was that the draft was being used to wage the war in Vietnam. Suffice it to say that we saw that war as immoral. Suffice it to say that we saw the horrible things that were being done to the Vietnamese people. Suffice it to say that we saw the war as a profit-making, pro-corporate enterprise. Suffice it to say that we saw that war ripping apart our own country and lessening our standing in the world.
To call speaking out against such wrongs "whining" is most unfortunate.
thats your opinion and you are entitled to it...
I have had this argument many times with people on the left...They love to say that the Military takes advantage of Poor people and Minorities...but if you check your statistics you'll find that we were primarily from the middle class...and always have been..
and as much as even I don't l;ike it...there are going to be more wars...regardless of who is elected in november...the world is at one of those tipping points it seems to come to every 50 years or so
.None so blind...
Currently the military recruits in South America more zealously than it does here. The military has always been populated by those in need of job training or those who cannot find a job in the civilian sector, as well as those whose families consider it a tradition to serve.
Noone with any sense castigates the rank and file, many of us on the left served as well. My own service led me to my progressive politics in fact. Using patriotism as an excuse to blind yourself to the way our military has been missused by the leaders of this nation serves noone and accomplishes nothing.
.
We see things, not as they are, but as we are.
Anais Nin
Are you military, or contractor? Cause, I think that there is a big difference.
snowflake,
Get real, duder. No military dunce knows his right from his left and vice versa. It is an established fact. If they could, they would have made that right turn, before the inductee/re-enlistment office, leading to the Rectory of Franciscan monks and became whatever it is those dudes do without weapons, stripes, dormitories with 87 radios playing 87 stations amid other technological 'mind massages' full of mass pablum.
No? Besides, the only poor people and minorities the military takes advantage of are the poor SOB it kills in some backward humble home that stopped 600,000 Russian troops and armament!
Yet the chimp retard 'decider' of this clusterfuck of rubes, thinks he and his minion generals, who can add and subtract, can conquer the world with Jesus on his shoulder and enough toilet paper for wiping his face of the shit he eats daily.
Ahh, was I too coarse of tongue? Well, living through 8 years of documented criminal behavior from the most powerful mental dwarf on the planet tends to make a sane man short of politeness to the repetition of rightwing snotnosed shitheads spewing their vomit, their lame attempts at intimidation like their coward of a leader and his dead 'Jesus' bobblehead.
Is that pretty clear to you trolls?
"...the world is at one of those tipping points it seems to come to every 50 years or so"
Are you circling a black hole or something equally massive and dense, such as the president's head? We seem to be at war once or twice every decade. My how time just flies. Always an excuse. The domino theory for the Vietnam, bogus. Fighting terrorism now, bogus also. You don't stop terrorism by inflicting terror on other people, especially when they had nothing to do with it in the first place. And before you start talking about 9/11, know this: 9/11 was a crime, not an act of war. It should have been treated as a crime. What do you do with criminals? You hunt them down, take them alive, hopefully and PROSECUTE them. You don't bomb people who had nothing to do with the criminal act in the first place. How does dropping a bomb on a neighborhood, or a wedding, for example, help catch Osama bin Laden? Most people seem to forget that the US had a golden opportunity to negotiate with the Taliban to turn bin Laden over to us and all they wanted was just some proof that we could connect the event to him. Proof as in the sense of just enough to warrant an indictment. But your commander-in-thief refused. Wasn't even willing to have a small chat. Just wasn't interested. We could have gotten permission to send in special teams to hunt him down and bring him to justice, in just about any country he chose to locate himself in but it was more important to build that pipeline across Afghanistan, to liberate those oppressed oil fields in Iraq. And the idiot in the oval office, and the two chief knuckleheads vying to take his place are looking to do the same to other countries, ie. Iran, Syria...
People say that we should honor the troops. I could see that when we had conscription and a person didn't have a choice in the matter. But with this all-volunteer army, they are choosing to learn to kill other people and then going out and doing so. Yes, in many cases the recruiters aren't completely forthright to their victims, I mean potential soldiers, which is how they see high school students, not as people; people who could die and people who they will be sending off to kill other people. But it is still a choice, and IMHO they made the worst possible choice. Nothing is more precious than life and it should not be squandered eliminating the lives of others.
Don't be stealin' my lines!:)
The issue I raised did not reference the exploitation of "poor people and minorities" in the US military although I don't necessarily disagree with the premise. The far larger point is the damage done to this country and to the cause of international peace and cooperation by those who deploy the US military for illicit purposes. The fact that you can always find mercenaries for a price is hardly comforting. That the poorer classes can be had at discounted rates or bribed with an education is also not comforting.
I don't at all disagree with your statement that "there are going to be more wars...regardless of who is elected in november." Obama and McCain are falling all over each other to see who will spend more on the military, build a larger military, and continue the "war on terrorism." Where I suspect we strongly disagree, however, is whether the current wars are justified and whether the future wars are inevitable.
While the world, indeed, might be "at one of those tipping points", it is only there because globalized, greedy interests, empowered by the strength of the military, hold far too much power. A world, badly overpopulated and severely short of resources, need not choose war as its only method of conflict resolution.
Until more of us understand that we must "live within our means", i.e., we must build sustainable systems (e.g. agricultural, economic, energy, etc), war may indeed be inevitable. Greed, empowered by an ill-informed electorate and an ill-informed military, is destroying our country and our planet. I don't blame most of those in the military for that any more than I blame citizens who fail to learn and who fail to participate beyond mere voting. I see it as my job, and our job, to awaken them. I do, however, blame those who exploit their ignorance. When the guillotines are ready, let us ensure that it is they who get the first haircuts.
Too often, discussions of military recruitment lack an adequate context.
So, allow me to ask this question: Would recruitment on college campuses (high schools?) be appropriate IF you agreed with the ways in which the military was being used?
In the current context, all efforts should be made to block military recruitment because the military is being used for illicit purposes. Regardless of how patriotic or how well-meaning those who join the military may be, that does NOT change the reality that the US military has been used as an empire-building force against sovereign nations and against the best interests of the American people. Recruiting the young, who are too often indoctrinated with pro-US propaganda in our public and private schools, is unconscionable.
But such discussions are too easy. Is military recruiting on campuses ALWAYS wrong? Is military recruiting of the young ALWAYS wrong?
Would a militant resistance organization formed to resist the imposition of martial law in the US be wrong for seeking supporters on college campuses? Would foreign countries trying to resist an occupation by US forces be wrong to recruit troops on their college campuses?
Pacifists might well oppose military recruitment of any person for any reason. It's not clear, however, that military recruitment of either high school students or college students should be viewed as inherently evil. One might argue that such determinations should be made based on the morality or immorality of the government controlling the military.
Comments?
Quote from this article:
“To me, this is just as important as the abortion issue or teaching evolution; it's a core moral issue," said Todd Boyle, a Kirkland father and WATIR member.”
It seems to me that this is a far more important issue than abortion. Our sons and daughter are fully formed human beings in the prime of their lives. I find it odd how many people are against abortion, calling it murder, but don’t object to military recruitment, which surely is murder on a much larger scale. I applaud Todd Boyle for admitting that it is at least as important. But I wish he had stated that it was more important.
This reminds of a wonderful bumper sticker I have seen on a couple occasions:
"Oh, look honey! Another pro-lifer for war!"
"Is it the mission of schools to provide for the national defense?"
Translation:
Is it the mission of schools to provide cannon fodder for the M/I/I complex?
So 'ezechair,'
What was that you were saying about a draft? Your drool escaping your flaccid lips as you leer at the victims inability to escape the superimposed death knell from the uninvolved, coarseness of a dead culture and the reptiles that feed off the corpses?
I went numb the other day when my 13 year old nephew who lives in the South told me the US is fighting communists in Iraq, and that he wants to join the military once he gets out of high school.
The recruiters are just waiting to close the deal when this kid enters high school.
That's chilling. Ignorance kills.
Yes...the Islamists are more dangerous than the Communists...Communists weren't that fanatical...and I think most given the chance would have become capitalists