A Wink, A Nod and A Loss
ST. LOUIS, Missouri - In the aftermath and varying opinions of the overhyped debate between the Democratic and Republican candidates for vice presidents, two areas of consensus appear to emege: Sarah Palin didn't do anything TOO stupid and voters, the ones who still make the decisions on election day, feel Joe Biden won the night.
Incredibly, Palin held her own by not debating: She announced
straight out that she would not answer the questions but would stick to
talking points. It was, perhaps, the only way she could stay out of
trouble but it showcased an inexperienced, inept candidate who has
trouble with facts and only a faint relationship with specifics.
She winked. She nodded. She grinned. She said "betcha." But she didn't debate.
In a format where clear winners are impossible unless one side or the others screws up big time or one side of the other scores a "knockout," neither Palin nor Biden emerged as the clear winner. Still, Palin did nothing to stem the doubts that remain about her ability to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.
Writes Democratic political activist Bob Shrum:
Sarah Palin has experience being a runner-up -- which will come in handy in November. Tonight she barely kept up. In advance, the commenteriat almost unanimously agreed on a false measure of this debate. Judging by "expectation" meant that pundits could conceivably award a faux victory if she was half-coherent and modestly informed after a cram session in Arizona. But voters apply an absolute standard, not a low water mark of expectations: With America facing two wars and economic disaster, Americans ask if a candidate is up to the job.
By any rational assessment, Palin wasn't tonight -- and hasn't been any time she's not reading a teleprompter. President Palin-- the nuclear button, recession, the health care crisis, global warming (which she doesn't believe in, as she believes in creationism) -- well, it simply doesn't compute. A part in Fargo, yes -- that office in the West Wing, no.
Millions of Americans were watching Thursday night's vice-presidential debate waiting for a demolition derby moment - another crash by GOP running mate Sarah Palin, another serving of raw material for the writers at "Saturday Night Live."
By that standard, she got out alive, though there were white-knuckle moments along the way: questions that were answered with painfully obvious talking points that betrayed scant knowledge of the issue at hand, and sometimes little relevance to the question that had been asked.
But recent days have given John McCain's team little reason to suppose that not-that-bad is good enough. The Republican ticket's sliding polls and narrowing electoral map gave it a different imperative in her showdown against Joe Biden. That was to alter the trajectory of the race in a way reminiscent of how Palin first enlivened Republicans-it seems long ago now-when she joined the ticket in late August.
Absent new polling, there is little reason to think she cleared that bar in St. Louis.
To the contrary, it is hard to count any objective measures by which Biden did not clearly win the encounter. She looked like she was trying to get people to take her seriously. He looked like he was running for vice president. His answers were more responsive to the questions, far more detailed and less rhetorical.
Writes Dan Balz in The Washington Post:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin spent much of the past two weeks on the defensive, hounded by critics over halting performances in television interviews and questioned even by conservative writers doubtful about whether she is ready to be vice president.
But the Palin who showed up for Thursday's debate against Democratic Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. was anything but defensive. In a fast-paced exchange about a range of domestic and foreign policy issues, she was the aggressive campaigner who in the first weeks of her candidacy had so energized the Republican faithful.
As a result, what was touted as a moment of truth for Palin instead turned into a lively and civil argument between the two vice presidential nominees over the policies and records of Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama. For 90 minutes, they sparred over Iraq and Afghanistan, energy and global warming, the economy and taxes, and which candidate would do more to protect the middle class.
One debate will not erase doubts that have been building about Palin's capacity to serve as vice president, but the effect of the encounter may shift the focus away from the sideshow that Palin has become and put it back on the two presidential nominees and what they would do for the country. Thursday's debate adds to the importance of the two remaining presidential debates, the first of which will be held Tuesday.
Palin produced at a moment McCain needed it most. In the past two weeks, his standing has deteriorated as the focus of national attention has shifted almost entirely to the economy. National and state polls show Obama gaining ground, and the preface to the debate Thursday was the news that McCain is pulling out of Michigan, once seen as a potential pickup.
Tom Shales of The Post was more pointed:
Sarah Palin looked as though she had prepared for her appearance at the vice presidential debate last night by studying Tina Fey's impressions of her on "Saturday Night Live." She twinkled and winked and piled on the perkiness, a "darn right" here and an "I'll betcha" there.
The challenge to Fey, who is scheduled to play the Alaska governor and Republican candidate again on the next "SNL" broadcast, will be to out-Palin Palin, to make the parody more outrageous than the original.
At the same time, Palin seemed determined to banish thoughts of her as airheaded and inexperienced; she was really debating her own public image rather than Sen. Joe Biden. She subverted the whole purpose of the exercise by merely repeating the key points of her running mate, Sen. John McCain, and ignoring questions that called for more specific answers.
A focus group for CBS and the viewer response line for CNN scored the debate for Biden and undecideds said they were leaning more towards the Obama-Biden ticket after watching the debate.
With the vice president sideshow over, the focus now switches back to the two principal candidates and their two remaining debates.
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161 Comments so far
Show AllThe reason she was able to hold her own is that the Democrats are basically in agreement with Republicans on most big issues. When discussing the war both competed to see who was the bigger hawk. On the Wall Street bailout for fat cats it was Obama that personally called many Democratic Representatives and persuaded them to change their votes to yes.
Both parties will continue to curtail our civil rights as evidenced by the free speech cages they provided at their conventions and the unprovoked mass arrests plus the trampling of our 4th amendment right to not be spied on without a court order..
What's there to "debate" when on the big picture of endless militarism and the transferring of wealth upwards there is nothing but agreement. In order for there to be a debate they would have to include some 3rd party candidates that are opposed to war and the bailout etc. Otherwise it is a farce.
for anyone who may be interested in WHY the pailin, mcain and bush followers, will not change their world views, even in the face of mountains of evidence and fact proving them to be absolutely wrong, i suggest reading a short book by bob altemeyer. "the rightwing authoritarians".
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:P1nCWRsubpwJ:members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/Introduction_link... ...this is the html version, and looks whacky, but the pdf version is easy to locate.
this not only explains this phenomena, but lets us understand how we got where we are today ,,,this huge mess in the world
enjoy the enlightenment and pass this on to all who are concerned.
herb@jdz.ca
A psychology student could do a very interesting diss-err-tation on exactly why some people like Sarah Palin. It would be revealing about a slice of our national character.
Joe
It's great that no winner can be declared in a debate during which that photo was taken. Biden must have been very weak too huh? I caught a few minutes of it. It didn't hold my interest even to comprehend the propaganda being spewed.
No info on how to make a car alternator a wind turbine? Next channel.
rocyahsoul@yahoo.com
www.lamegame.name
Daniel Vincent Kelley
Palin's a problem, but I'll never be convinced that she's a greater problem than Bomber Joe Biden, who was all starry eyed over Iraqi partition and the further immiseration of the Iraqi masses, and who is part of a ticket wishes to continue to spread mayhem and disorder in the Middle East at a time when this country is in the midst of what is probably the worst financial crisis in its history.
The basic problem with liberalism and "progressives" is that at some level, most of them buy into the idea that this country has the right to eviscerate whichever society it choses for its own alleged good. So convinced are many liberals and "progressives" that this is the case that they hardly blink when that selfsame policy is brought to bear here at home, which is all the so-called banking bailout is.
The future is with a mass democratic resistance made up of the working class majority and its hard won allies, or there is no future.
hey fiddler,
are you f***ing joking?
it was neocoservatives that invaded two countries on totally false pretenese and alienated us from the rest of the world when the whole world had great sympathy for us because of 9/11. man, you must be living in la-la land or something. to blame liberals and say they want to eviscerate other nations? are you insane, or just that damned blind, or just plain stupid? or are you a fake blogger/propagandist troll for cheney? man, what a fool you are. where the hell did you go to school? i simply can't believe the depth of stupidity obviating itself in your obtuse observation. wow, i hope i never ever lie to myself the way you do. what's the matter, embarrassed by your bush/cheney fiasco? get a grip, man!
Whats up with all of this silly winking, lip smacking, and talking in a fake ass vernacular colloquialism? Any person with a brain the size of an acorn can see that this woman's act is nothing but a "public persona" to give her leverage with the local yokels. Her vocal and facial antics remind me of Mae West and some of the old movies she stared in (set em up joe!),(howdy boys!). Sarah Palin comes on like some kind of roaring twenties speakeasy broad (hello joe! you wanna give it a go?)She puts me in the mind of some of the photos of Bonnie Parker and the only other props missing is the "corncob pipe and pistol". Moose eating joe six pack soccer mom YES! VP? HELL NO!!
Her policies are horrible. And you have got it down with the spoiled girl facial expressions. She think she cute.
Joe
LOL......Bulls eye!
By the way, most Alaskans do not drop the "g" in words ending with the suffix "ing." Even her accent is phony. I hate it when she juts her jaw out and sticks her lower lip out like a spoiled little kid.
But these are nothing compared to her incompetence, ignorance, lack of empathy, and extremism. She's thrown women, her fellow sisters, under the bus by being anti-choice and by charging them for rape kits. Rape kits that some women can't pay for and consequently are further victimized when the rapist isn't charged with rape. I as a woman could never vote for such a person.
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid Eskibimbo.
Cant wait to see her, Brigitte Neilson and Chyna have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid Eskibimbo.
Cant wait to see her, Brigitte Neilson and Chyna have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
Cant wait to see her, Brigitte Neilson and Chyna have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
Cant wait to see her, Brigitte Neilson and Chyna have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
Cant wait to see her, Brigitte Neilson and Chyna have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
Cant wait to see her and Brigitte Neilson have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
Cant wait to see her and Brigitte Neilson have a drunken cat fight in their pajamas
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I hear they have a bedroom reserved on The Surreal Life on Nov 5 for this stupid bimbo.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Our opponent though is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," Palin said of Obama, also calling him an embarrassment.
What? when Obama was 8 YEARS OLD!?!?!?!
so, she thinks that America is Perfect?...so then, what do we need her for? What is to reform in a perfect country?
and speaking of "palling around with terrorists"...Look no further than the GOP and Carriles...convicted of blowing up an airliner, and now protected in the bosum of the Bush League.
WHAT A FREAKIN SKANK THIS BE-OTCH IS! GIVE ME HILLARY ANY DAY OVER THIS EMPTY HEADED, VINDICTIVE BIMBO
The U.S.S McSkank is going down!! 330 electoral votes to 175, latest polling!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Our opponent though is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," Palin said of Obama, also calling him an embarrassment.
What? when Obama was 8 YEARS OLD!?!?!?!
so, she thinks that America is Perfect?...so then, what do we need her for? What is to reform in a perfect country?
and speaking of "palling around with terrorists"...Look no further than the GOP and Carriles...convicted of blowing up an airliner, and now protected in the bosum of the Bush League.
WHAT A FREAKIN SKANK THIS BE-OTCH IS! GIVE ME HILLARY ANY DAY OVER THIS EMPTY HEADED, VINDICTIVE BIMBO
The U.S.S McSkank is going down!! 330 electoral votes to 175, latest polling!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Our opponent though is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," Palin said of Obama, also calling him an embarrassment.
What? when Obama was 8 YEARS OLD!?!?!?!
so, she thinks that America is Perfect?...so then, what do we need her for? What is to reform in a perfect country?
and speaking of "palling around with terrorists"...Look no further than the GOP and Carriles...convicted of blowing up an airliner, and now protected in the bosum of the Bush League.
WHAT A FREAKIN SKANK THIS BE-OTCH IS! GIVE ME HILLARY ANY DAY OVER THIS EMPTY HEADED, VINDICTIVE BIMBO
The U.S.S McSkank is going down!! 330 electoral votes to 175, latest polling!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Our opponent though is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," Palin said of Obama, also calling him an embarrassment.
What? when Obama was 8 YEARS OLD!?!?!?!
so, she thinks that America is Perfect?...so then, what do we need her for? What is to reform in a perfect country?
and speaking of "palling around with terrorists"...Look no further than the GOP and Carriles...convicted of blowing up an airliner, and now protected in the bosum of the Bush League.
WHAT A FREAKIN SKANK THIS BE-OTCH IS! GIVE ME HILLARY ANY DAY OVER THIS EMPTY HEADED, VINDICTIVE BIMBO
The U.S.S McSkank is going down!! 330 electoral votes to 175, latest polling!!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Our opponent though is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect, imperfect enough that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country," Palin said of Obama, also calling him an embarrassment.
What? when Obama was 8 YEARS OLD!?!?!?!
so, she thinks that America is Perfect?...so then, what do we need her for? What is to reform in a perfect country?
and speaking of "palling around with terrorists"...Look no further than the GOP and Carriles...convicted of blowing up an airliner, and now protected in the bosum of the Bush League.
WHAT A FREAKIN SKANK THIS BE-OTCH IS! GIVE ME HILLARY ANY DAY OVER THIS EMPTY HEADED, VINDICTIVE BIMBO
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Why is Ms. Palin allowing herself to be used in such a heinous manner? Has she NO self respect?
Cutsy, folksy, winking, "joe 6 pack and you betcha" do not go anywhere re the person who is seeking the position of Vice President of the United States. IT IS APPALLINg AND INSULTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“With the benefit of the lessons of our history we are destined to repeat many otherwise preventable policy mistakes because we believe ourselves to be exceptional.” – Dr. Robert
Two adults were invited to particpate in the VP debate but only one adult showed up - Joe Biden. The more I reflect on his performance Thursday night, the more impressed I am with him and the way he conducted himself. He could have quite easily fallen into the "attack mode" trap and it would have been fun - but disastrous. On the other hand Sarah Palin's performance was no better than that of an adolescent, a chirping, screeching, "folksy" performance lacking any ability to think and reason. Every time she spoke reminded me of fingernails dragging across a blackboard - it was painful. :)
Tina Fey is more qualified for VP
Namaste
I don't even know how these meetings can be called debates. Give these events back to the league of women voters!!!
Speaking the League of Women Voters, Alan, I recently spoke to a member of that venerable organization. The debates were much better when the League presided over them. But during the 1980's the Powers that Be changed all that because they did not like these "uppity women" telling the big-shot politicians what to do. They got rid of the LWV and formed their own organization to be in charge of the debates, which we have been stuck with ever since. The LWV have also not even been permitted to distribute their Voter's Guides. This new organization in charge of Presidential/Vice Presidential debates is sponsored by big corporations and supported by the 2 major parties - so guess whose interests come first when it comes to crafting a presidential debate? Could all the third parties be shut out, could Palin get away with all the excrement she was spewing, if the debate had been fair? I watched the debate. A few facts about Sarah Palin:
1. She is nuts, and that fundamentalist "Assemblies of God" she's had ties with since she was a teenager has warped her even more.
2. She's a slick, pathological liar.
3. She was allowed to get away with introducting her extremist positions without explanation, as in "I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman." (Sadly, Biden agreed with her).
4. She is a misogynist, while cynically using feminism to get her to the White House. She believes that a women's body is the property of God, and would enforce laws dealing with reproductive freedom on that basis, as she did as governor of Alaska.
6. She believes in the Rapture and would expand the Holy War waged by Bush and Cheney, resulting in death and destruction and the further downward spiral of our economy (not that she cares about the economy, since she doesn't understand it and she and her little family are doing okay)
7. She favors destroying the environment of her home state and other states with her reckless "Drill, baby, Drill" policy. She is a cold-blooded murderer of wolves and other creatures.
8. People who believe in her as a serious candidate are beyond hope, because they are so dumbed down that they don't recognize a con job, and they have failed to see through the cute, charming surface and discover the pathological cruelty underneath.
People around here seem to love her. Of course, people around here also attend fundamentalist churches every Sunday and stand in the village square at attention while a high school band plays the national anthem and a Vietnam War honor guard displays the colors. Around here, politics isn't something you do, it's something that's done to you. They're real comfortable with that. Just give 'em some nice big corporate charity to donate to and they feel real patriotic and good about themselves and wear the tee-shirt proudly.
Personally, I'd like to get a tee-shirt that reads: Sarah Palin is a Self-Interested Corporate Whore
Only problem is--being a self-interested corporate whore is just fine around this town; people look up to self-interested corporate whores and probably aspire to that status.
I dunno man, I saw through her. That folksy talk and eyelash battin' did nothing for me. She still comes off as a local tv newsanchor. Cute 'n' phony.
I'm still calling it. Blessed Blunder. That's what she is.
BellingtonTheCat ,
"it's imperative that the repukes are not allowed to steal the election"
I agree they have been stealing elections, but isn't it bizarre that the Democrats don't seem to care? They haven't even tried to abolish the electoral college.
I'm not sure that abolishing the Electoral College is all that good an idea. Better would be to institute across every state proportional voting (as is done in a few states) so that the College delegates don't all go to one candidate or the other based on a 50.1% win
"no gods, no masters" --m. sanger
If the average Joe or Jane were to answer questions the way Palin did in the VP debate, he or she would never get employed. I'd like to see one Palin supporter tell me that he or she was successful in landing a job by failing to answer questions and/or giving off topic replies.
I took debate in high school, if I had blatantly stated in the first five minutes that 'I might not answer the questions the way the moderator would like' and then proceeded to go off topic and blather generalities, I would have been told to sit down and shut up and the round would have gone by default to my opponent. Guess a small-town high school has higher standards than those Ms. Palin was held to in front of the country ! And she really should look up the meaning of 'Achilles Heel', I do have to hand it to Gwen for giving her that question first so that she couldn't try to figure out what it meant from Biden's answer . . .
To greenls:
You quote Palin as saying during the "debate" as follows: "We've got a toxic mess on Main Street affecting Wall Street." I did not hear that line, but I did not hear the whole "debate." I accept your allegation that she said that. Your analysis following this quote is spot on. This line fits the right-wing pundit screed that Pres. Clinton "caused" this mess in the first place by demanding that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loosen up mortgage requirements so that poor black people could get "ownership." Yet look who are losing their homes now!
The right-wing machine is in the process of associating black Obama with black Clinton and his "irresponsible" loosening up of mortgage requirements for black people.
OTOH, Clinton signed in 1998 the Rubin-induced repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act that regulated banks and other financial institutions. To get personal, I recall that a few short years ago when I went to my local State-Farm agent to re-up my homeowner's insurance, she was trying to sell me Certificates of Deposit! State Farm is (supposedly) a "mutual" insurance company, meaning Member owned (like a "credit union"). State Farm had become at least two entities: insurance on the one hand, banking on the other: I started getting letters from State Farm BANK! (I bought two CDs.)
The Paulson/Bush/McCain/Obama Plan solves NONE of the basic issues going back to the issue of the separation of banking from speculation. Also, to the person who wrote that this is the last theft, please consider the underlying economy as it relates to our trillion-dollar personal CREDIT CARD DEBT and our trillion-dollar auto-loan debt, in addition to the mortgage debt, which has yet to unravel. I anyone aware that in the past 10 days or so the Congress gave 25 BILLION to the Big Three American auto industry?
The Congress and the Federal Reserve have now resortd to printing money. They seek to re-inflate the mortgage market, and worse. Hyperinflation is now probable.
If the Fed drops the funds rate below the current 2%, which is already well below inflation,and thus FREE MONEY to the banks, you will know that you have been fucked. Pure and simple.
Recommended reading: Henry CK Liu at atimes.com. Also at the same site, Doug Noland, and even the Mogambu Guru who says buying gold is the only answer. I say buying "forever stamps" is a better answer, but that would cause a "panic" because stamps are a legal equivalent to cash and gold is "real." What about the other precious metals that the Media know nothing about? Take palladium. Take the process of creating one computer. Take Palin, PLEASE!
Finally, I agree with the post that Tina Fey was actually doing Palin during the debate. Ultimately, the difference is that Tina Fey could do it on her own, while Palin needed the whisper in her ear. She was wired, like Dubya, only better.
Bottoms Up!
-30-
"We've got a toxic mess on Main Street affecting Wall Street."
I heard her say that, too. It threw me for a second, but I ASSUME it was just a slip. OR, maybe she just got her line mixed up.
Or, Hell, maybe she really does stay up nights worrying about how average USAns are going to fuck up the economy built by rich businessmen, I dunno what these people think.
No gods, no kings
Look, as bad as the Democratic presidential ticket is in terms of hawkish corporatists, it's imperative that the repukes are not allowed to steal the election. In order for that to happen, it needs to be an Obama landslide. I'm not a DPA. I'm just saying that the repukes must be prevented from retaking the White House no matter what.
PoliticallyFedUp wrote,
"Biden politely presented facts."
Um... Facts? Really?
BIDEN: "When we kicked -- along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, "Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know -- if you don't, Hezbollah will control it."
He didn't say that. Really?! Did he say that? What kind of an idiot is he again? We are choosing between Bevis and Butthead it seems.
Palin may not always know what she's talking about, but she sure can pour out those words.
Daniel Borgström
That was no debate! Biden politely presented facts. The Snowflake presented herself like a power date. Gwen presented a weak moderator effort, while she wrote her book. At home, Hillary Clinton probably had a beer. We'll never know what Ralph Nader did because the corrupt work tirelessly to silence him. She is the best choice McCain could make? Wait til his Cabinet choices bop in!
Sarah Paleolithic looked like a parrot in the debates: physically beautiful, dutifully repeating what she'd been taught to say verbatim, and understanding absolutely nothing. We've had 8 years of leadership by an intellectually deficient, fundamentalist Christian, anti-science, vindictive, petty, crony-appointing, climate-change denying, warmongering, tax cutting, big-spending governor, and the results have been disastrous.
Alex
It was nothing more parallel talking points.
They can't debate because they agree on too much.
But even so, Biden should have been able to easily make her look like a fool.
It was like watching Henry Kissinger failing to win a debate against Elisabeth Hasselbeck.
What are you talking about? She's a freaking moron. Did you listen to what she said? She already looks like a fool, with or without Biden's help.
Check out the flag pin she's wearing in the photo at the head of this article. Is that a dollar sign?
Wow. I guess we know where her loyalty lies.
Since Ardee supported Rich M's cynical analysis with bloviation but madcow offered point by point refutation of it, if I were a neutral, undecided voter, I would thenceforth side with madcow, and why, pray tell, is madcow a man in Ardee's view?
I prefer the following, more illuminating bon mot from Anais Nin to the truistic one that Ardee chronically cites: "ONLY THE UNITED BEAT OF SEX AND HEART TOGETHER CAN CREATE ECSTASY."
In the mind of a Dem Party Apologist (DPA), the word "cynical" means "telling the truth about the Democrats' lies."
In the mind of a DPA, it's not "cynical" when the Democrats cave in to every last thing Bush wanted for the last 8 years -- from the stolen election of 2000, to the invasion of Iraq, to the attacks on civil liberties, torture, etc etc, and right on up until TODAY, where they led the way in giving Bush & Paulson the keys to the whole US Treasury. In the mind of a DPA, none of this is "cynical." It's just the Dems being "pragmatic" (or some other similarly gutless apologia).
It's not "cynical" of Obama to claim he'd filibuster AGAINST the FISA bill, then to wind up voting FOR it. It's not "cynical" of him to posture as an "opponent" of the Iraq war, then to vote for all the refundings. It's not "cynical" for the Dems to win back Congress in 2006 by tacitly promising to stop the war & to stand up to Bush -- and then to fail to make any serious effort to do either.
But for me to point out what thoroughgoing liars & sellouts the Democrats are -- why, that's outrageously "cynical!"
You're a Difference Denier---a DD. You blend the parties together, use blanket statements and misrepresentations to deny any difference in Democratic or Republican philosophy or method of governance. You label anyone who spells out the differences, and sees a clear reason to vote for Obama over McPalin, a DPA. It's cynical.
Even Noam Chomsky sees differences. Here's a quote from him, discussing the lack of a post cold-war rational for continuing massive Pentagon spending, and how biotechnology (the next great boom) cannot fit under the Pentagon aegis:
"There are differences between the two political parties about what should be done. The Reagan-Bush types, who are more fanatically ideological, have their heads in the sand about it to some extent. They are a bit more dogmatic. The Clinton people are more upfront about these needs. That's one of the main reasons why Clinton had substantial business support."
So I guess Chomsky's a DPA too.
"Taxing your health care benefit," says Joe, "I call that the 'Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere.'"
http://www.wilypython.net/Taxing%20Your%20Health%20Care%20Benefit.asp
Bush got in cause people thought they could have a beer with him and Ronnie charmed in with his movie star twinkle and looked how they buried the "Evil Empire" and stopped global terrorism in it's tracks and all it cost was everything we had.At least she'll be able to give that little wink to Putin and melt him like the wicked witch of the East.
Maverick: A gunslingin', quik drawin', gamblin' con-man with a thirst for cheap booze n' young compliant wimmen; does that describe anybody we know?
pailin was prompted with her answers..period.
look at the picture accompanying the article.. you can plainly see the earpiece coming down to her right ear from her glasses.. no she does not use a hearing aid..it is the same as ol gwb remember the "object" under his suit coat in the debates when he first ran..
at first i doubted this, but i went back and reviewed the debate..it is quite clear to me now how she would listen a bit, then scribble the next "answer" down on paper... pathetic.
let's face it democracy died today , what with the largest scam in the world just pulled of by the money'd elite with this bailout crap, to the tune of more than a trillion dollars given to them, if you add up all the cash thrown at f mac f may aig etc., and now this pathetic attempt to put a cheney wanna be in office at any cost..i really fear the next few years.
Palin used the quotation at the end of this recording in her St. Louis Unveiling Oct 2, 2008
Reagan speaking against Medicare
This record was then mailed out to the 'ladies auxiliary' (doctors wives) of the AMA in each county. Was it this little record that kept Medicare from being signed into law until July 1965? Is this why we still don't have Universal Health Care?
http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/reagan1.mp3
And of course, to include Nader-Gonzalez, McKinney-Clemente and even Barr-Root despite my dislike of the last two--
yes please.
Palin is a dufus. Is that how you spell it? Doofuss. She has to be one of the worst women ever to run for VP or president, just our luck.
The VP debate as a mathematical equation:
00000 = 00000
For those that thought that Chaney's extraordinary VP powers were "excessive." Then, judging by her comments last night, if "Mother Moose" Palin becomes VP,...."you aint seen nothin' YET!"
We autta lighten up a little here. She has great legs. ___ Pretty too.
What if she does? (I don't agree ... I don't think she has great anything, except maybe ambition. Oh, and "confidence.")
I thought the job of the moderator was to make sure the debaters actually answered the questions and impose discipline on the responses. This felt more like a dual-interview.
I confess I was disappointed that not only did she not get crushed, but she actually had Biden momentarily flustered at one point.
They are both dead wrong about virtually everything. It's like watching a contest of who can lie the most. And what's the point? Nothing they promise will come to fruition except greater carnage against Iraq, Afghanistan, and finally Pakistan, and possibly Iran.
No gods, no kings
Palin said she had been "annoyed" in her interviews with CBS News anchor Katie Couric and had been caught off guard when asked what newspapers and magazines she read and to name Supreme Court decisions she disagreed with — questions Palin appeared not to be able to answer.
Her responses, Palin said, were "an indication of being outside that Washington elite, outside of the media elite also."
so...illiterate and ignorant = non-elite?
so,by this logic... my dog, who does not read ANTHING nor follow the supreme court, is a perfect Washington outsider, and should be VP.
I thought she read "anything and everything put before her, yadda yadda yadda..."
lying beotch
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
A wink is as good as a nod to a blind man
Let's see...opinions from Bob Shrum, "Politico", and two hacks from "Washington Post". Nothing from Madonna?
I have to admit that I was impressed she seemed to be able to (for the most part) follow through on a train of thought. The problem remains, though, that the only reason she could do so is that she has been on McCain's ranch for the last 2 weeks memorizing lines. Or maybe she had her lines written down in front of her.
I thought it was obvious she was not telling the truth with regard to her being a person of "tolerance". Yeah right.
And she still clings to the idea that global warming is partially if not entirely caused by cyclical weather patterns or some such nonsense. Bottom line on energy and global warming for McCain/Palin is that they want to "drill baby, drill" which won't produce anything soon and will only worsen global warming. Biden hit the nail on the head when he said that in order to find a solution, it's a good idea to try to understand the problem. In other words, as long as we keep drilling and burning, the atmosphere will continue to warm. Seems like a no brainer to most of us, but I doubt that approach has ever occurred to Sarah.
The winks and down home talk were too cute for my taste, although I suspect there are plenty of people out there who found that attractive.
I would like to see another version of the debate in which Biden is allowed to unleash his full potential, rather than walking on eggshells to avoid hurting Sarah's feelings.
The Party of Lincoln has become the Party of Winkin’ Drinkin’ and Nod
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4156825
Winkin' = Sarah Palin
Drinkin' = George W. Bush
Nod = John McCain (old geezer nodding off in public)
LOL
hahaaaa!
Cynical Sam,
Thanks for the link to the photo of the wire runnning from Sarah Palin's glasses into her ear. So she was miked. That explains her relative coherence compared to her past media appearances. It also explains her odd pauses, and the insistence that no filming could be done from the back. Wonderful. A Barbie doll puppet to preside over the empty Treasury, which was raided today in the final and biggest act of piracy in our nation's history, the approved "bailout."
sorry, in the accompanying photo to this article, pailin looks like she is passing gas, after gorging herself on all the neocon talking points.
Maybe she is doing her Dick Cheney impersonation...?
Whraaaak!..I am the 4th level of government..bow down before me...wraaack!
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Why wasn't she wearing her Fargo fur hat?
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Dafoe
The wink said it, no substance just, what did you expect from Palin. I had a highschool teacher who said to one young gal, preening herself in front of all those "guys" " ya won't gewt through my class on your good looks sister!" could have been Palin. The so called media will do what their bosses tell them to do about the debate and people will beleive what they want to beleive but she is still a light weight like every Repug presdent has bee since wwII, they still keep getting elected by people who admire the vacuous, tells you something about the art of critical thinking that hasn't been taught in our schools since adam wore short pants.
I wouldn't go to sea with that woman.
Mooselini follows the example of her role model, the White House squatter, and winks at the audience like she thinks she's cute. Like all Republicans, she feels she doesn't need to be held accountable and answer questions. She also turned me off was her constant smug smile --- like so many people without health insurance, high cost of gas, utilities, tuition, losing their homes and jobs, massive credit card bills, etc. is amusing. She comes across as smug and arrogant (no surprise there).
I'm puzzled about Gwen Ifill not asking her to clarify her statement, "We've got a toxic mess on Main Street affecting Wall Street." Huh?? So the financial mess the U.S. is in is all OUR fault?! Is that why the fat cats want us taxpayers to bail them out? There's nothing like adding insult to injury.
Did Mooselini say "You betcha!" (Alaskan country talk) Oh well, at least she didn't say "Horseshit!" three times like McCain did during the debate when he was so rude he didn't even look at Obama (the first time he said it was barely audible).
Someone mentioned our National Debt which exceeds $10 trillion now. Keep voting for Republicans and WE will be the illegal aliens sneaking across the border to Mexico to get jobs that corporations shipped over there.
To: SnowWolf
Till such times the Republicans have loyal people like you, the future of the party is safe. I honestly do not know which world you live in, its not certainly the one I am in.
Palin had no content and still thinks that US is winning in Iraq and Afghanistan. I read about a NATO office remarking that the Taliban will be back in power (except Kabul) in 12-18 months. If you call that winning a war yes than the US has won
Well...we shall see what the Polls say Tuesday...deal?
I saw plenty of content
"I saw plenty of content."
WTF? If by content you mean big hair and makeup, then yes, there was that. Anyone with half a brain could see that Palin was spouting garbage. You must be one of those people who thinks Hannity and Limbaugh are patriotic truth-tellers.
Re Palin: I saw a lot of avoidance covered by plenty of whipped cream, candy sprinkles and a cherry!
What's worse? An inbred woman who can't put two sentences together, who's been a corrupt governor and oil company prostitute, or a crafty old shark who's a zionist, war-monger and has been fighting for banks and credit cards companies all his life?
Take your pick.
That's the kind of choice you have with the current one-party system.
We don't need a third party, we need a second.
Take your pick?
Ok I'll pick the Dems.
NADER IN 08: I WANT TO WASTE MY VOTE YET AGAIN.
You waste your vote anyway. Vote Dem or Repub and its wasted. You still get it in the end.
Go ahead, waste you vote on the two prostitutes then, be my guest. Obama bin Biden, a Wall Street dream come true.
Ok. It's still good but don't overuse it.
alcoholic* ...sorry still dazed by the bail out scam
"which candidate would do more to protect the middle class"
Protect the middle class? Protect it from what? The elite's class war aggression, that's what. But this only raises many more highly relevant questions. Why should the American people depend on the US president to protect them from the elites' class war aggression? Why shouldn't the American people take THIS matter into their own hands? And why is this author differentiating between the middle class and other class victims such as the working class? Why is this author pretending that the elites' class war aggression is NOT the mega-crisis that it is? WAKE UP! This perpetual nightmare has to come to an end! Let Polin into the oval orifice to complete the meltdown, PLEASE!! We can vote Ralph Nader to help ensure that "elite lite" O'Bama doesn't get in to save the elites from themselves.
an advertising campaign here in canada for a acoholic beverage has the slogan..
"when all eyes are on you ..wink and smile"
guess pailin drinks that brand.
If Barack Obama or Joe Biden had winked at the camera ONCE, let alone THREE TIMES, it would've ended their campaign as surely as the Dean Scream ended Howard's. It would've been ALL we heard pundits talk about ALL NIGHT and ALL DAY until the Dems tucked tail and went home.
Winking at the camera is so *completely* inappropriate to the context of a vice-presidential campaign debate. Imagine - the nation's economic structure crumbling, a failing health care system, two wars sucking our juices dry, and she's WINKING at you?? I'm calling her on that. VPILF to the penalty box.
The Dean Scream was a media-manufactured gaffe created by extracting the sound of the crowd from Dean's yell-along. The Palin Winks were real, really out of place, and really 'not-ready for prime time'.
She has to wink. She doesn't believe in blinking, and her eyes get dry.
Polin will make an excellent ruler of planet earth. Chimpy set the bar to the ground so now any terrestrial creature is suitable for the oval orifice. The more unsuitable the better. The Likud's grand strategy is for the orifice to evolve toward figurehead anyway. If you don't use it against the Likud, then you lose it to the Likud.
Joke's on you. Sarah Palin remains locked up on the ranch in Arizona. That was Tina Fey last night.
I would not doubt that for a minute. The rovian repugs would probably hire Fey and we wouldn't know the difference. So maybe Saturday we'll see the real Palin playing her real self on SNL and it will be hilarious.
The "there you go again Joe," "rear view mirror" crap was obviously not spontaneous but was prompted by her enablers. Had I been Biden I would have replied with something like, "You better be checkin your rear view mirror, kiddo, because there's an 18-wheeler bearin down on your gas-guzzling SUV."
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