Most Popular This Week
Popular content
Today's Top News
04.11.12 - 6:17 PM
The Element of Malice: Zimmerman Charged
George Zimmerman has been charged with second-degree murder in the shooting of Trayvon Martin. He is in custody in Florida after reportedly turning himself in. At an emotional press conference, Trayvon Martin's parents gave thanks for the arrest. Zimmerman's new lawyer says he will plead not guilty.
Update: Zimmerman makes his first court appearance.
Florida State Attorney Angela Corey announces the charges.
Comments are closed
Comments
Note: Disqus 2012 is best viewed on an up to date browser. Click here for information. Instructions for how to sign up to comment can be viewed here. Our Comment Policy can be viewed here. Please follow the guidelines. Note to Readers: Spam Filter May Capture Legitimate Comments...
50 Comments so far
Show AllJustice? In America? Well, we'll see.
Yes, we shall see.
Just heard a clip of the prosecutor imploring us to 'pray' for Trayvon. Considering her propensity to be 'tough' [see Cristian Fernandez, an abused 12-year-old she tried for murder as an adult!], I'd say we should heed her advice.
SECOND DEGREE !!! Let's see, what would FIRST DEGREE be for, shooting a white man??
Second Degree seems appropriate in this case. First degree would mean that he went out that night with the INTENT of killing someone. I don't think that's the case. Second degree means that he WILLFULLY committed murder without prior planning, which would appear to be the case.
Considering you're continuing to race-bait by making a smart-ass comment, it would seem that you're reacting on an emotional level rather than logically. IF the prosecutor laid first degree charges on Zimmerman, they would have to prove pre-meditated intent. I honestly don't think they could. Proving 2nd degree, willful murder without pre-meditation, is far more likely and a smarter legal move.
A lot of us, me for instance, have no problem believing that gun owner went out with the intent to kill someone that night. Why else bring a gun? If he really felt he needed protection he could have stayed in the house and had the police come.
So EVERYONE who goes out with a concealed weapon does so with the INTENT of committing murder? Hardly.
I don't know their real reason. However, you may be on to something - that they intend to kill someone. Of course there may be a paranoia factor in there as well.
Besides Sundome, what you BELIEVE and what the prosecutor can PROVE are two different things.
Based only on the information I have read and evaluated in this case, a charge of second-degree murder seems appropriate. Zimmerman could have chosen not to use his weapon but unfortunately he did use it. He made that choice and by so doing he ended the life of another human being. This was a deliberate but not a premeditated act.
This absolutely horrendous situation could have been avoided.
In my opinion the Sanford police really messed up the initial response to this incident.
...thanks for helping to divide the 99% HailCODEPINK. Very 'kind' of you.
Mythoughts
Stupid things coming out today from the Cos about how Trayvon Martin's killling was all about guns and not at all about race! Gee couldn't he just stick to making stupid TV shows? Stop saying silly things such as this, unless he means Martin should have had a gun to shoot back at this loony cop wannabe dog? Better he should have had an Uzi on full automatic and partners watching the flank in a hostile honkey neighborhood such as this. These blond haired, blue eyed Hitler Youth dogs used to come at our boys as the Third Reich was going down like crazy mo fos. A brother man gotta to what a brotha man gotta do. But then somebody would come out with that silly "N's with guns."
What the hey! This was surely about more than race. Class always stands behind all this insanity. This fellow was likely working class in this upscale dog neighborhood, he had just got some iced tea and Skittles for his little brother, and was so much like I would have been at that age. What the hell! That could been my booty dead due to these paranoid fruit cake scum in their gated, fortress "neighborhoods," I mean fortifications.
This is the face of 'American Exceptionalism'.
I understand this psychofuck is appealing to that neocon anti-intellectual parasite Sean Hannity for 'help' after or about the time he/it stopped communicating with his defense lawyers. This little farce should become quite the laugh-fest (quite apart from Trayvon, of course), as we are subjected to the spectacle of this piece of shit going through the garbage called the justice system in What's Left of The United States, and as the racist right-wing scum bubble up out of the soup of rot that is America to attempt to defend this insect.
"The Element of Malice: George Zimmerman Charged"
Yippee... Now we got a possible death-sentence to fight. Ain't justice grand...
Sounds like a great lose-lose situation.
Maybe Robert Zimmerman will write him a song? - Like "The story of the Hurricane"? - How about "The killer of the Hoodie-man"? - Could be a killer song.
"This is the killer of the hoodie-man
The guy the authorities put in the can
for something that he surely did do..."
I doubt he'll be up for the DP when he's only charged with 2nd degree murder. That's saying he killed Travyon unintentionally or in self-defense.
From:
http://criminal.laws.com/second-degree-murder
"Second Degree Murder is classified as a type of murder, which is an act that results in the premeditated, deliberate, purposeful, and premature termination of the life of an individual at the hands of another individual. In most cases, the individual victim who suffered death was not the intended target of the individual suspected of the act of killing. Although the killing took place with malice aforethought, deliberation, and planning, the individual killed was not the individual intended to be killed by the suspect. Second Degree Murders are accidental deaths that are analogous to the intent and premeditation latent in First Degree Murder charges. "
"That's saying he killed Travyon unintentionally or in self-defense."
No. Unintentional or self-defence would be Manslaughter. Second Degree implies intent, but not premeditation.
2nd degree Murder implies the Death penalty is off the table [usually only applies to 1st degree murder]. Ironically in the end The corrupt police chief & DA actions in dismissing the manslaughter charge that night [probably after consulting Zimmerman's ex-Judge dad] was a disservice to Zimmerman himself, as well as Trayvon!
Almost as egregious as the cops letting Zimmerman go Scott-free [based on phony self-defense claims], is the fact that they returned his gun [the murder weapon] back to him! Unless the cops did & recorded a full ballistics break-down of that particular gun, Zimmerman has had over a month to dispose of the murder weapon & replace it w another just like it! If that has happened it could make it just that much more difficult to prove his guilt.
Second-degree murder, imo, is a combination of first and third-degree murder; Inotherwords, if somebody intends to just beat somebody up very badly and then gets carried away and ends up killing the person because the attacker's emotions were totally out of control, that's what second degree murder is.
I wonder if ALEC will be indicted as a coconspirator in this case? I can dream can't I?
elmysterio: You are probably technically correct, legalistically. OK. But don't YOU have any emotional reaction to this act?? The victim WAS black, not exactly unprecedented in the South, right? And WHY was Z wandering around with a high-powered pistol? He could have been home watching TV, or out shopping... You don't think its possible he might have been looking to "Stand his ground"--and pop somebody?
"But don't YOU have any emotional reaction to this act?"
Well I'm not completely heartless, I am saddened that the kid lost his life in rather dubious circumstances, but this is just ONE instance of injustice in world overflowing with injustice. Therefore, I don't get too bent out of shape over this one particular case. I'm far more saddened by the million+ Iraqis murdered by the US and their proxies. I'm far more disgusted by the depraved actions of Israel in regards to the Palestinians.
AS well, I'm not an American. I'm not all caught up about race. Here, race is relatively unimportant. So perhaps that's part of the reason I'm not screaming for blood.
"WHY was Z wandering around with a high-powered pistol"
Because in American culture, it's perfectly acceptable to be armed to the teeth.
"He could have been home watching TV, or out shopping."
Right. That's what good citizens do. :)
" You don't think its possible he might have been looking to "Stand his ground"--and pop somebody?"
It is totally possible, plausible even. BUT I think it's a smart move by the prosecutor to go for 2nd degree. Proving pre-meditation is very difficult, especially in this case. A conviction on 2nd degree murder is far more likely. Just imagine what would happen if they filed 1st degree charges, failed to prove premeditation, and Zimmerman was acquitted. What sort of social chaos would erupt? It would be INSANE! Far safer to go for the "lesser" charge with a higher chance of conviction.
Think about this for a minute. One of Canada's worst serial killers is Robert "Willy" Pickton. He is suspected of causing the death of over 70 women. The police, after completely excavating his pig farm, found evidence enough to "prove" his involvement in 26 or so of the murders.
When he was finally charged and brought to court, he was charged with 6 counts of 1st degree murder. They held the other 20 for a "future date". After a lengthy court case, he was convicted of 6 counts of 2nd degree murder. At that point, the crown announced that they would not move forward with the rest of the charges. There wasn't a point. He already was sentenced to life.
Why didn't they charge him with all 26 murders right off the bat? For smart legal reasons. IF they failed to convict on the first 6, they'd have another go at him with the rest. Sometimes, it would seem that the justice system is totally screwed, and in a lot of ways it is, but sometimes, you have to do legal maneuvering in order to have the desired end result. Know what I'm saying?
Pickton was only arrested and put on trial because Vancouver wanted to clean up it's international image before the 2010 Winter Olympics.
Prior to that, the VPD, RCMP and BC Crown Council didn't give a diseased rat's ass about the prostitutes they considered less than human. Hell, one-time mayor of Vancouver and later Premier of BC Gordon Campbell was a regular at Picton's unlicensed nightclub during the height of the murders and disappearances.
Jailhouse chatter overheard by a prison guard who later wrote a thinly veiled fictional book based on his experience said that if Picton told the entire truth, dozens of BC politicians and high-ranking cops would be in prison beside him.
I know many, many lawyers - including the good compassionate want-to-make-a-difference kind, who want justice served... and just as el mysterio sez, you go with the most persuasive charges that will win over a jury and/or judge.
Remember that judges tend to be rational, and the jury is instructed to not be "emotional." So - you go with what you can prove in a rational way. (For better or worse...)
El Mysterio is painting a right wing frame to define the parameters of discussion- it is not as he says, and your anecdote is silly- many many people including lawyers are outraged by this murder and did not glibly post nonsense here, but you and No Mystery and Robert Riverwrong offer up a continuous supply of right wing obfuscation and defense of the status quo dribble.
Thanks a lot.
Well. To say I'm a "right wing" guy is totally laughable. Seems to me that you're just being an asshole because you don't like me. In fact, it seems all you want to do is come onto the forums to fight with people.
Because I tend to approach things from an analytical perspective, rather than the emotional unthinking perspective that you do, I'm "right wing". What a frickin joke.
All I'm saying here is that it was a smart move by the prosecutor to go for murder 2, rather than murder 1. But I guess if you had your way, we'd just skip the trial all together and string him up. Then, afterwards we'd all get drunk and shout USA USA USA.
A necessary step toward justice. Sadly, however, a better mental health system, and more attention to changing racial attitudes and emotions throughout the school years might have prevented this whole thing, and Trayvon would be alive.
Better laws, and fewer excuses for murder (by soldiers, by police, for instance) would help too.
While I'm no zimmerman fan, I think elmysterio is mostly right about this.It's much harder to prove pre-meditation. My understanding is that zimmerman had a concealed gun permit. Another poster mentioned the the death sentence. To the best of my knowledge, no State imposes the death penalty for second degree murder. I don't think Florida's an exception.
Another member of the Troll Choir sings out- stills sounds tone deaf to me.
Considering you've offered NOTHING to the discussion other than the be an asshole to others, one could argue that you're the troll.
Z-man will walk.
With his daddy the former judge being buddy-buddy with the Sanford Police, and the prosecutor looking like they couldn't indite a ham and cheese sandwich for being non-kosher, it's pretty much a done deal.
I don't think so.
I bet you thought O.J. Simpson would be convicted too.
I really don't think the prosecutor would have laid charges if she didn't think they'd stick. Considering the emotional charge to the public from this case, laying charges and seeing an acquittal is FAR FAR worse than not laying charges at all, in terms of public reaction.
I agree, elmysterio. I think she knows what she is doing. I also think she has done the right thing.
No Name Mystery here- we should have just listened to your group of experts from the start: "Just a bad law, no racism, no pre-meditation, everyone who has differing opinion is an emotional basket case, nay-sayers are technically ignorant of the law-history-the purpose of racism-the context of justice in America.....". Add your own observations to this list everyone, it makes the pattern recognition chore easier.
Your group is well coordinated No Mystery (matti) /No Name/ Robert Riversong/ That PaleHorseFace, and always offer support of the construct you are building here.
Thanks for everything, you guys are Great!!!
Man, I tell ya. You're ridiculous. Do you not understand what you read? I honestly think so. The crux of the nice discussion (before you came along) wasn't about racism, wasn't about the "bad law", it was about the legal strategy of the prosecutor, which I think is smart. Excuse me for having a different world-view than you. Asshole.
Yes, the crux of the "nice discussion" you were spawning and now defending was about the technical aspects of the Prosecutors motives, I would prefer the emphasis to be on the tool of racism and its use to promote and protect class structure.<>
Deflecting the conversation to minutiae and your opinions about trivial technical detail IS NOT NICE conversation to me, it is lame and weak and is intended to do harm to the community. Putting this in here for you: "In my opinion". Didn't want to upset you with a Vox Dios declaration, everything I put up here is my opinion.
I think you are coordinating with others here to monitor, manipulate, and neutralize.
But even in the light of your petty attacks on me ( "Asshole" ), on women and feminism ( "man haters"), on Abby Zimet,CD, and the 'left wing'- I will not give up on you, be fearless choose love it is not to late for you.
To PostScarcityAna:
I don't know who you are having never seen your name here before, so I have no pre-determined idea of where you're coming from. All I know is what I've just read in your post above.
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from attributing to me comments I've never made and thoughts I don't have. I am, like everyone else here, following the development of this horrendous story and making an occasional comment as I am moved to do so.
You, I can assure you, have no idea how I FEEL about this incident, or what I think and how I FEEL about the societal context within which this sort of incident is increasingly allowed to occur.
I will thank you to simply ask me what I think and how I feel instead of making assumptions.
I don't know who you are either, all I know is that your syntax, vernacular, and viewpoint are very familiar- were you at the Starbucks on the corner of Fourth St. yesterday?
I have seen your moniker here before, and have replied to your comments in the past.
You, I can assure you, have no idea about my understanding of your EMPATHY, or my understanding of your COMPREHENSION of the social construct or the tool of racism that we are discussing in the context of this murder.
Don't wait for me to ask you about your thoughts and feelings, post them- and you won't have to wait long or ask me to share my thoughts and opinions on your own.
No thanks necessary- just post and I will do the same any time I feel like it. No assumptions required.
HailCODEPINK and Sundome -- Be careful what you wish for. Were your rules to become the law, it would not be the George Zimmerman's of the land who would suffer, it would be the Trayvon Martins, HailCODEPINKs, Sundomes -- and Hectors. It
Quote 1: ""We do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition. We prosecute based on the facts on any given case as well as the laws of the state of Florida," Corey said.
Quote 2: "You who prophesize disgrace, and criticize fears,
Tear the rag away from your face, for now ain't the time for your tears."
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-zantzinger10-2009jan10,0,4825718.story
elmysterio: Agree with you on all points. With the exception that this one case is trivial by comparison with large scale atrocities. It hits a raw nerve--and seems emblematic of a malignant mindset widespread in this country.
.....and seems emblematic of a malignant mindset widespread in this country.....
Yep.
Everyone I'm talking to lately agrees with what you just said. It's pretty ugly what's going on, as if it is taking on a life of its own. Very unnerving.
What happens when the police department and d.a. don't do their job, to begin with. Letting a child killer walk free. Very unnerving for the public.
It is about time Zimmerman was arrested and charged with murder. Too bad it is not 1st degree murder since he stalked a unarmed, innocent minor - and againt clear instructions by the police.
I hope the D.A.'s office is for real on this. Everyone will have to keep up the pressure if there is to be justice for Trayvon. I don't feel confident in their system doing right, as the special prosecutor was defending the actions of the police department and removed D.A., and while it is clear that they abandonned their responsibilities and are rightfully under investigation by the Federal Government.
This is a tangent - but I am disturbed hear that a prosecutor opens a meeting with the family of a victim - and other government employees - with prayers to Jesus. I respect the family's feelings on this subject, and their religious expression of thanks in public, but I am concerned that a government agent - the prosecutor - is bringing religion into the mix. What if the victim's famiy were agnostic, atheist, Jewish, Buddhist, or Muslim? What about the other employees (or don't they hire anyone unless they pray to Jesus)? Would the prosecutor be opening a meeting in any of these other instances with a prayer to Jesus? What is that about? There is a separation between church and state. (I am referencing her press conference.)
That's a very nice photo of Trayvon Martin. I haven't seen it before. What a sweet fellow.
And what a pig that vigilante nut is. The Sanford police department can pat themselves on the back for helping to create him. They liked their armed citizens with guns, and never firmly discouraged him from phoning them constantly with his imaginery fearful obsessions. They knew he was not normal and he was runnng around with a gun.
Leave race out of it. A gun carrying neighborhood vigilante stalks an unarmed kid. He is told by the police to stop stalking the kid. He continues to stalk the kid. Either he confronts the kid or the kid confronts the vigilante. The vigilante draws his gun. (My assumption.) The kid realizes he will be shot if he does not do something to defend himself. The kid attacks the vigilante, hoping to disable or disarm the vigilante. He is unsuccessful and the vigilante kills the kid with one or more gunshots.
Where did you get this scenario? Are you trying to boil it down to a non-racial essence and say that suffices? You could be right, but why would we shield ourselves in advance from the most probable racial component before all the facts come out?
All I'm saying is that, although race was most likely part of the situation, it wasn't the only part. Why was this vigilante skulking about the neighborhood with a gun? Was he just waiting for, hoping for, any excuse to use it? I'm not boiling it down to anything. Why did the vigilante not back down when told to do so? Yes, the facts need to come out. Chances are that there were some witnesses that have not yet come forward. Did the victim know the vigilante had a gun? Did the vigilante point the gun at the victim? If so, did the victim try to get away from the vigilante, or did he attack the vigilante in an effort for self defense before the vigilante had a chance to fire his weapon? There is an awful lot we don't know. Personally, I come down on the side of the idea that an over-amped racist vigilante carrying a gun was waiting to shoot someone, anyone. My scenario is just a "what if" race was not involved, or was not the only factor involved. Too many guns, too many loose nuts with guns. Handguns are nothing more than a tragedy waiting to occur. I got rid of all of mine for that very reason. I could not countenance the idea that one of my guns might be stolen and then used in a murder.
Was Keith Olbermann fired from Current TV for covering the story of George Zimmerman's Supreme Court Magistrate Judge father Robert Zimmerman influencing the police investigation of his son?
Olberman was the first (and only?) to air these details on TV ... days before he was 'fired' from Current. No other TV stations or major news sources have been reporting details about Zimmerman's father, the Judge- and how he was present during Zimmerman's police interrogation, present during the police reenactment of the crime, extremely well connected within Florida's legal system, and evidence of interfering with past police investigations on his sons behalf.
Is this part of a government spin campaign to downplay the whole Trayvon Martin murder? Obviously this issue has grown to the point of becoming in the governments eyes a 'dangerous' catalyst that could spark race riots along the lines of Rodney King- LA Riots 1992, or Watts 1965.
Has the government been directing a managed news control treatment of this event?
Have media institutions been directed not to discuss Zimmermans father, retired Virginia Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert Zimmeran?
Did Keith Olberman disobey this directive? Is that why he was fired?
If he used a racist term and it's on record, he'll get nailed on Murder 2. I think Manslaughter would have a better chance of success.