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12.01.11 - 7:13 PM
This Is Definitely Not What Democracy Looks Like
Wow. After a "citizens' arrest" by a security guard for a building largely owned by Goldman Sachs, police obligingly arrested political activist and Democratic congressional candidate Ray Lutz - in Freedom Plaza, home to Occupy San Diego - for registering voters. Or refusing to move his little table for registering voters. Or maybe just breathing, 'cause hell, at this point, who knows. After Lutz got hauled off, other activists took up where he left off, and miraculously managed to register over 30 voters without getting arrested, maybe because by then the police were too embarrassed to show their faces. Lutz is suing, which for now you're still allowed to do.
#occupy posted in
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Show AllThis what the right says democracy looks like for anyone that doesn't agree with them.
Democracy? Unless the people reign in the blue shirt fascists (a.k.a. the police) and stop just these types of abuses of power we won't have a democracy.
Too Late!
Check the bill before the Senate to allow the military to hold anyone anywhere indefinitely without trial.
Oh, well. What you think we live in a democracy? Where you been for the last twelve years? Voting... yeah...but they don't count the votes. The Supremos can declare the victor. Oh, they do count the votes on the Diebold computer voting machines. Wonderful things. Bush got more votes on them than there were voters!! Magic, I guess. Or maybe the system is rigged. What do you think?
Check out the latest list of Countries that are the most Democratic. Denmak nr1, USA about nr 9 just below Chile. When you realized what Chile went thru almost 40 years ago and how far our democracy has declined in the last 40 years.
Thank you for pointing this out. How did we become so ignorant as a nation? Or have we always been like this, and not noticed? I grew up in the early 1950s, and every day we would pledge allegiance to flag, ending with the phrase, "with liberty and justice for all". That clearly, obviously, dramatically, did not apply to Black Americans or Native Peoples. And no one noticed; not me, not my classmates, not my teachers, not my parents, not President Eisenhower, not "Time Magazine".
During the Philippine-American War, "Life Magazine" had a cover illustration of US soldiers water-boarding Filipinos.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Life_05-22-1902.JPG
Probably they had few cancellations over that.
How could the US be #9?! There's no way in heck that the US could be ranked that high taking into account ballot access laws, gerrymandering (resulting often in one-candidate districts) and the role we allow money to have in politics.
abbey sez he was in a "public square," while the cops sez he was on "private property;" so, one has to be incorrect.
This http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/nov/30/occupy-san-diego-protestors-clash-police-over-vote/ should answer your question. Pay special attention to the Cal supreme court decision! Sue the cops individually, not the city!!!
Thanks, Good link that helps explain the legal arguments of the two sides. It also provides more detail to the rest of the story, especially when the polic back down the second time; which begs the question, why did they arrest Lutz in the first place.
Link doesn't work anymore.
Subsumed in all this activity is that the arbiters of "proper" public behavior-- be that the behavior occur in the civic center or a bank lobby-- must be the owners, they who have yet to connect laws with morality. Then again, if no morality underpins our laws, the corporates have been right all along. Do whatever. Make a profit. Greed is good. Pretty shitty way to sleep at night.
Pretty shitty way to sleep at night.
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Nope, that's where people like us get it wrong: those creatures sleep like babies. And have a similar ethical level: they are never troubled by any feeling of doubt or remorse over their actions. If they can get away with it, that's all that counts.
Quite correct. Bush the Lesser told someone that he slept soundly every night. Guilt is not a problem when you are a sociopath.
Ray has been doing a great job covering the events at OSD. He sends out email updates almost daily.
Why would Goldman Sachs not want him registering people to vote? Is this more of the republicans voter suppression? Is it more proof of the republicans protecting the top one percent at any cost? Will this be on fox news? Why was that female cop frisking him, looks like her gum chewing sped up considerably. It will take a long time for the cops to earn the trust of the people after this bullshit!
They will NEVER earn MY trust. If it's wearing blue and it's mouth is moving, it's lyyyyying! Welcome to AmeriKKKa!
I agree, makes me want to cry! What happened to that little town in Iowa from the music man that we all loved. What happened to Barney and Andy, just a past childhood dream, it was sold out from under us, guess America was just too much to hope for.
if one wishes to perpetuate the myth that the vote of the citizen is the guiding voice of the land, one must maintain that vote is of utmost import...
this may require appearing to attempt to squelch, or control, votes...
all flattery to the 'voter'...
the Ship of State sails on, course unaltered...
that the vote is meaningless must be confronted...
ready?
Our corporate-governmental control system is well staffed and purring along. There is no need for any further citizen input. Just OBEY the police. (And shop, of course....then go right home and SHUT UP.)
This is a very very SICK country!!!! Not the heart of the country which is still pumping and alive in the streets -- but the dead tissue of the country that causes a cancer on democracy. Yeah, I know. Democracy left this land a long time ago. It's the freakin' blob. Fascism.
What was that, half a dozen swine to arrest a Citizen for "trespass" and "refusal to leave?" By what right did the big man swine and his little girl swine tell him to leave? Cities, counties, states and the fed, it's time to reel in your storm troopers! Correct me if I'm wrong but for "tresspass " to occour, doesn't there have to be DAMAGE? Welcome to AmeriKKKa!
I am all for full employment, but 4 to 6 cops to "arrest" somebody? At least no pepperspray or more painful "organic" matter was used.
Oh, the land of the free...
How much was paid for all those cops to arrest this peaceful man? How much will it cost to prosecute him? All to just stop a few democrat votes, the one percent republicans can afford anything as long as the 99 percent are paying for it!
That's exactly how the movement can effect change in policy. By making it expensive. The police need a reminder that their actions have legal liabilities. Before they deploy in the interests of big business they need to check their budgets. Every time they confiscate and destroy property there should be a civil suit. Every time they deploy unreasonable and unwarranted force there should be a civil suit filed. Money is the only language the other side understands.
funny or maybe not there is always $ for more cops 1400 in occupy la and blumbomb in ny says HE has the 7th largest army in the world , again HE has the 7th largest not the people of ny SAD it needs to be changed
When you have billions, you can buy your own army.
His army is the New York police dept, paid for by the people they are torturing!
Newt for president, why not have the poor people hating, worthless piece of Koch sucking bastard for president, he is so street wise he will show us what democracy looks like. Our kids can clean his toilet, Worthless piece of golden dog shit! Voter suppression for the poor, free ride for the rich, kiss my ass. The republican party of the one percent!
did the security guard act on his own volition or did a phone call come down from an office?
boy I'm getting paranoid.
It's a valid question. And one that will be ask in court. I am sure the executive suite will deny all involvement, and the security guard will join the ranks of the unemployed.
What happened to Bill from Saginaw's and my posts?
I've noticed a tendency of posts to disappear sometimes.
It will take a miracle or millions protesting to get our freedom and democracy back.
http://warisacrime.org/content/heres-how-your-senators-voted-udall-amendment-strip-out-war-and-imprisonment-power-grabs
Unless Obama vetoes, don't hold your breath, all Americans will be subject to unlimited detention without representation or trial.
This person was arrested on Freedom Plaza, in full view and broad daylight, for encouraging people to VOTE(!), with only ONE person asking mild questions of the cops? Where was the outrage?
The 99% are like laboratory frogs, slowly simmering on the hob, adjusting to the temperature increases without a fuss. The way it's going, our children will be quietly walking past the dead bodies of those who dared to speak a little bit of their own mind.
Outrage is not polite and civilised. I think even feeling some anger is impolite and uncivilised, so you're not supposed to do that. Just take the beating and declare moral victory :-/
It seems to me it would be more simple and certain for them to register all the voters they could and let Diebold settle it.
"You're gong to have to answer to the Coca-Cola Company."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUAK7t3Lf8s
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Minitrue, I completely agree and wish we could start today, but it would take SOLIDARITY and that is non-existent in the US population. #Occupy is as close as we begin to get with some form of that.
Good idea minitrue. Of course, the fascist oligarchy thinks it has the resources to force labor if it has to--the whole enchilada, as you phrase it. If the military and police 'got on board' we might have a fighting chance, like in Egypt. The problem there is that the higher you go in police and army hierarchy, the more you get obedience with the 1%, until at the very top you reach the 1% in control. The Egyptians are finding this out. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath-water, but you definitely don't want generals and police captains contaminating the bath-water either.
After the 'slime' is out, what will the 99% want to replace capitalism with? If it is to be replaced with a more equitable system, we are going to have to get over our brainwashing about socialism and humanism. The first lesson: you don't have to be a Communist to be a socialist. True socialism is willing to accept capitalism (or competition) on a certain level, as a tool or tactic. The second, humanism is not weakness. Being responsible for the well being of your fellow man does not mean that you will be destroyed by those more 'equipped' in the survival race (some of that slime you talk about). Solidarity means strength, the strength to enforce an equitable system.
I tend to be both pessimistic and optimistic. It's time the human species grew up, we have the capacity to do that. As a species, we no longer have room for selfishness and greed. But it's way past time, or will be very soon, to save ourselves and an earth that can sustain us and a diversity of other life. If it's not too late, it is a fact that time is running out.
",Plan and organize a general strike, far enough ahead for the people to stock up on blankets, candles, good books, food and water. On the appointed day, nobody stirs."
Remember that in Oakland, the most liberal city in the Bay Area other than Berkeley, the "General Strike" had a less than 1.5% turn out with many of the participants coming in from surrounding communities.
Some General Strike.
In a country where 50% of the people don't vote, an act MUCH easier than striking, you are not going to get even 1% to to actually go on strike. It is just not going to happen.
You get higher turn by 8 or 9 times to a Raiders game than you do to a general strike in the same city.
I might add that Black Friday was the biggest shopping day in history with an increase of 7% over last year. This year 24% of all the people in the US, not voters, but people, went to a store to shop.
Interestingly one of the top items to shop for appears to have been guns because Federal NICS submissions peaked at a record of 129,000 requests for transfer of a firearm. That is up 32% over last year.
We are striking, no one comes to the strike. They are selling and 1 out of 4 of us goes and shops and of those a big hunk bought guns. That really tells you all you need to know about the movement to change society.
"That really tells you all you need to know about the movement to change society."
It's the other way around. This actually doesn't tell you much about the movement at all, except that it's small. It tells you a lot about the society it wants to change. I don't know what your posts that keep blaming a movement for the things it wants to change tell about you though.
Study some psychology. If you do, you'll see that adults are goal-oriented and greatly dislike frustration.
What does that mean? It means that most people aren't going to invest time in something that doesn't look like making a difference. Because if they _do_ invest time, and it _doesn't_ make a difference, then they have to deal with the emotional fallout. So, for them, the prudent thing is to wait and see. The only people who get into it from the off are those with a big, immediate stake in creating change.
Which is, not coincidentally, why the ruling class always stalls around and "studies" everything to death. The longer they can put us off, and the higher they can raise the price of persistence, the fewer the people who will persist.
If we want public support, all we have to do is show that we have a bandwagon moving. People are willing to jump aboard a moving bandwagon, not least so that they can say with truth, years on, that "I was there. I was part of it".
The OWS movement has the support of a broad range of people and well over half the USA's people based on solid British polls done in this country. They have no axe to grind.
Count on it when Mitt Romney says he's one of the 99% that says it all. The neo cons have plenty to be scared of.
Right. They're not opposing it, but they're not putting any energy into it either. They're going about their usual lives while watching to see whether anything good will happen that they can then be part of.
The OWS movement has the support of a broad range of people and well over half the USA's people based on solid British polls done in this country. They have no axe to grind.
Count on it when Mitt Romney says he's one of the 99% that says it all. The neo cons have plenty to be scared of.