And gets an answer they weren't expecting...
You can vote here...
This is a stunning poll, especially since it is of Fox viewers. Most of the time people choose acceptance of the status quo, by default. In this case, people have decided to trust their own eyes and experience over INCREDIBLE AMOUNTS of misinformation and over derision aimed at Occupy Wall Street.
I really get the feeling that the political class is getting quite worried about the unrest on display in New York and cities across the nation. It is clear that a surprising number of people know exactly what is happening in this country, and not only that, but care enough to camp out, defy police brutality and go to jail in protest of this rotten system. This is stunning to the political class who would have us remain hopelessly inured to the endless election cycle.
A lot of these Occupiers are voters who actually believed Obama's promises of "hope and change" back in 2008. Now people realize that these were bald-faced lies and that nothing will ever change unless we disrupt the system and make it impossible for the corporatists to continue doing what they are doing. This must be frightening to the entire political class. They actually thought they could fool all the people all the time, but now they are realizing that it doesn't work like that.
"This is a stunning poll, especially since it is of Fox viewers." -- jclientelle
I agree -- it's stunning!
It would seem that this poll was conducted on line. If this is the case one has to wonder if the talking heads on Fox "News" will ever discuss and analyze these findings with their loyal viewers out there in television land or will they simply confine the startling results of this poll to that vast ether known as the Internet thereby pretending that that poll had never happened
Ayuh. I'd expect the analysis to be something along the lines of, "Fox News asked for your views on this protests and we've been overwhelmed by messages from more than 56,000 people who believe these confused, irrational participants have no idea how jobs are created or how a free-enterprise system works."
Night before last, Diane Sawyer on ABC evening news, had a very good piece on the Occupy movement. She explained very well how the richest 1% have gotten vastly more wealthy since 1980. It feels like the US is on the brink of something very good. The people have to lead their politicians. Expecting a miracle man to do everything for us is never going to happen.
As N Chomsky has said for some time, the population is far to the left of the major politicians - even most conservatives are quite left of the parties - the parties and media must use wedge issues and incoherent language (that makes the listener feel stupid for not understanding) to obtain their support.
Gotta say I'm stunned at FOXophiles' so overwhelmingly supporting the Occupiers. As for the validity of the poll, I'd say the 219,000+ responders at least suggests it's more than legit: To get a valid "scientific" national survey only a couple thousand randomly selected are required.
Gotta say I'm stunned at FOXophiles' so overwhelmingly supporting the Occupiers"
It doesn't say how many "FOXophiles" believe it is all the fault of that "socialist Obama" :)
What's wrong is not always the disagreement. What's the cause and what's the solution are often the sticking points.
If anything, the poll is unscientific in the way that it tries to prompt people to go with the first two options ("Maybe. I am not even sure what they want." or "No. They have no idea how jobs are created or how a free-enterprise system works."). Sounds to me like a push poll that backfired.
The poll also suffers from the fact that the responses are not from randomly selected people. But the fact that nearly three times as many said "yes" than said "no," suggests that there is some "beef" in this beast.
Sustainability of unity in demanding accountability and the journey of life is awakening. To see the public service sector - police, fire fighters, nurses, teachers, labor organizers standing also represents the societal structure of the family-community connection. I am reminded of how vociferously my own family members have at times condemned anyone speaking out because they themselves have "paid their dues", "shouldered responsibility" - and any number of 'wedge issues' demanded by the system. Willful ignorance is one of the most difficult areas to expose when denial of history is shrouded in fear of loss of one's conditioned desire for position - an example of the distinction between 'pride' and 'dignity'.
Part of this is the marketing of the 'symbols of success' that will only be revealed in their emptiness and exploitative nature by sustained presence. Dr. King's having said that the arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice reflects the strength of transcending the mirage of the rotten carrot and bludgeon of the 'politics of the consummate fact'. Life is good, and indeed - if the people lead the leaders will follow.
Oops! They tried their best with two possible negative responses above the affirmative answer. But I still wouldn't want to be the Faux employee who put that poll up there.
If FOX News viewers ever figure out that they agree with us a whole lot more than the media Division Industry is telling them they do, the shit is finally going to hit the fan for the powers that be.
I'm not at all surprised. Although all of the traditional media is trying to characterize this movement as somehow "liberal" or left leaning that just is not the case. The media is doing its (traditional) part to divide and conquer. That is the old paradigm. What part of the 99% do you think they support? What part of the 99% are you? Hmmmmmm....
One more thing ~ It is heartening that WE are finding WE have a voice. Must be confusing for the media that is owned by the 1%.
While this poll probably reflects actual public snetiment, it is also an internet poll, which is scientifically not valid, and using it to defend a viewpoint is not a good idea.
You are right, of course, but as I mentioned in a posting above, the fact that three times as many said "yes" as said "no," suggests that while not scientific, the poll is telling us something.
I am not surprised. People are always a mixture of right and left political views, but this - talking about how Wall Street and the gluttonous rich have stolen from all the rest of us and ruined our only habitat - is understood by the overwhelming majority of people. Just talk to your neighbors, people in line at the grocery store, your oil delivery man, etc.
Now the question is - what to do about it? There's the sticking point. I don't see people proposing actions on how to change from vulture capitalism to genuine democracy yet. Those are the proposals we need.
I can't see how anything will change if we get Obama for another four years. Things will continue pretty much as they are. If the conservatives win the Oval Office and Congress, there will be a huge slash and burn. Either one might wake up a some of the people. Of course by then, it'll be far too late for them to make a difference.
What we really need is a miracle. Anyone believe in them?
i think we may be observing a miracle unfolding across the nation as we scribble.
"Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves" (Katherine Anne Porter).
SHADRE: Your post is a covert way of promoting lesser evilism; but the premise that slash and burn will come is erroneous. It's already here, and that's why so many have taken to the streets. Unemployment insurance will soon be cut off for many, health insurance is out of reach for millions, millions more ARE homeless, millions without jobs, with millions more succumbing to Cancer, depression, Diabetes; and then there are the weather events... while necessary public services are on the cutting table. Since all of this has been FURTHERED under Obama, as many in this forum argue, the trends will not deviate that much even if a more evidently Neanderthal human critter takes the Oval Office. Disaster Capitalism has hit home.
Siouxrose - This really wasn't my intent. The way I see it, if Obama is re-elected we'll be cut up slowly, in small increments, our pain and suffering steadily increasing. And if the teabag conservatives take over, it'll be massive drone attacks that take us out quickly, and bloodily. Personally, I'd chose the quick death, since there's no cure on the horizon. Which is why I say we need a miracle. By the way, I like your next to last line. It sums it up pretty good.
Some (Anonymous, the Zeitgeist Movement) have done a fine job of trying to explain the root causes and the transitions toward economic policies that are democratic and sustainable.
The Root of the problem concerning Income Disparity (1% vs. 99%) is our Monetary System and the Federal Reserve. Our monetary system is "debt based" and has been since 1913. While the Fed seems to prefer that we think of them/it as incompetent, in truth, they have enforced policies that would eventually, inevitably bring us to the point we are at right now. The Fed is owned by the 1% and it has served them well over the past, nearly 100 years.
Back a century and a half or so ago, Andrew Jackson's main campaign promise was to outlaw the Central Bank of his time and to do all that he could to prevent it from rearing it's evil self again. A few decades later (1906-7), J.P. Morgan via rumor, started a panic and bank run on a rival. This was the justification used to put the Fed back in business in 1913.
Getting rid of the Federal Reserve, eliminating Debt Based Currency would serve as great 1st actions to restore fairness to the economy. Public financing of elections, term limits, and only allowing registered voters to contribute to campaigns, plus eliminating all forms of lobbying would help restore some small degree of honesty and faith in our elected officials.
Hopefully, down the road, we'll bring about an evolution in which government is actually solution based instead of worrying about hooking that next big contributor.
We need to find a way to best manage our (world) resources to best serve all people. While we already have the resources to feed the world, we need to stop caring whether it is profitable to do so...and just do it, because it's the right thing to do.
It's a shame that the 99% have no idea how deep goes the connection between banks and government - the former basically owning the latter through controlling the sole right to create 'money' and lend it to the government at whatever interest rate pleases them.
On June 25th, 1863, the Rothschild Brothers sent a letter to Messrs Ikleheimer, Morton and Vandergould at No. 3 Wall Street, New York, which included the following passage setting out the system by which Banks monopolize the creation, control and distribution of the nation’s money from nothing and charge exorbitant interest to borrow it:
“The few who understand the system ... will either be so interested in its profits or so dependent on its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the
tremendous advantages that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps even without suspecting that the system is inimical to them.”
Despite my total support, in spirit, for the actions of the Occupy Wherever Movements, I must regretfully acknowledge that it is all in vain. The banks own the government(s) and will always have the last say.
Why would anyone be suprized at these results, I would think it would be closer to 99 percent. Fox represents Grover Norquist the same as the republican party, a promise to not make the top one percent pay their fair share. There will be no new jobs allowed and no new tax as long as Obama is in office, nothing that might make him look good then republican promise.
That was true a year ago that fox had more viewers than the rest combined, but not now, they still have more but are losing more by the day, keep it up America don't listen to their lies.
Interesting. This poll, if accurate, shows that no matter how much money and disinformation you shovel into some people's heads, a large number of them still aren't fooled by the bullshit. Pretty interesting. Makes one feel really sorry for the idiots who ARE so bought and sold, but there is really nothing one can do for them. They are the ones who can be fooled ALL the time, and they are goners. Good news, though about the others. There MIGHT be hope for them yet.
WJM: PR and propaganda can only go so far. Remember when Bush the Lesser hired Karen Hughes to try to tell the Iraqi people they were better off while the American rocks red glare, the bombs bursting mid-air?
Rice, eggs, cheese, milk, chicken, and other food products have gone up about 30% in the past year or so. Gas is still fairly high. In Florida, all vehicle registration costs went up substantially, and in my area, electric rates just went up. No PR campaign or propaganda makes invisible, the increasing costs that may stretch beyond the shrinking paychecks so many now take home, if they take them home at all. The American dream is turning out to be quite a farce; and it's probably becoming evident to families with wounded soldiers (or those who see the wounded returning) that this is indeed a rich man's war, and items like democracy & freedom, are just the buzz words used to originally sell it. If the church congregations that rally around the fetus' right to choose, were instead to see graphic documentation of the babies and pregnant women splattered in Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps they'd get past the idolatrous notion that these obscene acts of imperial aggression constitute a holy war...
Imagine the turning of the blood red tide then.
Unfortunately, Siouxrose, if they were to see graphic documentation of the babies and pregnant women splattered in Iraq and Afghanistan, they'd cheer, and praise their god.
So glad to see such a huge turn out...for OWS and for Faux's quest. Must have been a hell of a wake up. The 26% NO's are right on target with the 25-30% who still believe the tea party line. They are in the 99%, just in serious denial of where they stand in the ratings the 1% put them in. They are the uninformed, in denial, rag tag believers still, in the American dream that went byebye, stolen by the very people they support. They'll get here eventually.
As for the validity of this poll...I'd say 212,000plus is a pretty big pop. Those 1%ers only use a couple thousand from selected neighborhoods...and the 25%ers believe it. Making this one a whole BUNCH more better...and Faux did it to themselves even, not CD...hahahhahaha
Forget the poll. What's interesting is the article that goes with it.While making the usual claims of "class warfare", it admits (begrudgingly) that the demonstrators are right to complain about income inequality and the failure of trickle down economics.If the thinking of the "job creators" were correct, it continues, we'd be seeing jobs created all over the place by now.The times are indeed a-changin'.
I wonder if the person who wrote what you quoted still has a job.
I wonder what the results would have been if there was an option for:
All of the above.
Next on Fox: How cutting taxes limits corporate greed and helps the little guy.
What's happening, Groucho, is they are believing their lying eyes.
As always, I trust that Fox "News" will post prominently the results of this poll on TV during prime time for the next week- yea right.
I have noticed the belated scorn and smugness exhibited about Occupy Wall Street on your shows like the "Wall Street Urinal Reports', and "Pithy Belligerent Bill O"Reilly" etc. In reality, I think that you are really scornful of the way that you have sold your soul for money and power. The 99%ers know that you don't really understand their new paradigm and know that you can only be reactionary while hanging on to your sinking ship.
Hopefully, your fall from grace will be gentle and eventually you will be reborn.
Oh, please. Look at the twitter feed and the numbers. The poll started, tweets about it were about another "typical", "biased" Fox poll. Then a "call to arms" to "show them" and the results turn. With a 4x to 20x number of responses compared to other Fox polls this month, the only valid statistical interpretation of this is that OWS supporters have the time and inclination to vote in this poll, likely multiple times per person. The numbers are completely meaningless.
I voted 'cause I found it on twitter. So that proves to some extent it is skewed. I never voted on one of those before. But still, it's gotta mean *something*.
Not so meaningless, Rago. Apparently the Tea Party faction caught wind of these undesirable results (or someone at Fox noticed them) and took the time to flood the survey with "no" votes. The tally now stands at 52 percent yes, 45 percent no. Somebody's taking them seriously enough to squelch the initial embarrassment. My guess is, the numbers will reverse themselves by the time Fox acknowledges their "impartial" results.
Charlie Rose just had a nice half hour with 4 progressives talking about the Occupy movement. This is a big deal that is getting bigger.
The point I wish to make about this poll is where it was published. I for one do not view Faux News ever but access information about it on blogs like this. So that means, to me at least that the parties responding to this survey are more than likely Faux fans and thus to the right of the right, giving greater evidence that even the right wing are frustrated by government and corporate inaction on the economy.
Take a look at the poll now in real time. I think it may have been pushed some more by Faux. The poll is now neck and neck. 47% to 50% with 350,864 responding.
They've reversed the results finally. Took 'em 9 days to do it. I notice the steady stream of no votes that has flowed for days is continuing. It's so steady it almost appears to be machine generated, probably like a lot of those pro-Bush Ohio votes in 2004 ...
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