New York City police kettled and arrested scores of Occupy Wall Street protesters Saturday as about 5,000 attempted to march across the Brooklyn Bridge. Updates here, livestream here.
These people are becoming a pain in the butt.
Technical note: to those suffering from acute cranio-rectal inversion, "a pain in the butt" is the equivalent of a migraine headache.
Orwell's Ministry of Truth (Minitrue) in action - It only takes 20 minutes to shift the blame: www.spectrumz.com/z/minitrue.html
Thanks for that. Too bad Orwell isn't alive today to give his insights into the American corporatist, militarist 24/7/365 McNews cycle in all its kaleidoscopic evil.
Very true. The propaganda machine is in high gear today.
I read in another piece on CD that the police actually were escorting them on the bridge and told them they could use that lane ---- and then (just like at the RNC) the cops turned on them and did a massive arrest. BUT, I have to agree with a lot of people about this after some thought. If we do not peacefully disrupt business-as-usual, this won't get anywhere. I remember getting a permit to protest (????) and marching down the roads on a Saturday just where we were told to march and shook our fists to empty buildings --- what the hell did that do? NOTHING. Civil disobedience is about non-violently stopping up the drain.
The arrests are made according to their game, with their rules. Their rules and their game is politically invalid, because governance is by coercion, not contract. This is the basis for the injustice being protested, and it is the basis for all supposedly benign rules as well. Thus the same validation for the protests in general is also validation for methods such as blocking traffic, or blocking entrances to banks and stores, or anything they might choose to do. There may be moral considerations which compel the protesters to behave, but not legal ones.
Nobody knows nothing.
peaceful protestation is always valid. denying other citizens the peaceful exercise of their rights or for protestors to do "anything they might choose to do" does not have the same validity from the same source.
that assertion, both legally AND ethically, is nonsense.
In the face of the economic and military terrorism - which is what these people are protesting - being perpetrated by the elites here and abroad, are you telling me with your bare face hanging out that it is the protesters that should be criticized on "ethical" grounds? You have lost your f*cking mind!
Kitaj, you're so right.
when people protest what you call "economic and military terrorism" there are no limits to what they may do.
as soon as these American terrorists rebuild those twin towers, the moral superman involved in protests have the absolute right to blow these fascist structures back down.
the oppression perpetrated by the building of the Brooklyn Bridge can NOT be allowed to continue. the fascists driving over that damned bridge are responsible for so much of all the evil in the world and certainly are every day causing the starvation deaths of infants.
thank you so much, Kitaj for restoring my sanity. I was just so blind and hadn't grasped the urgent overriding necessity to obstruct that horrible, horrible superfascist bridge that removes the silly bourgeois idea that anyone who take up the holy banner of protest has more rights than anyone who hasn't.
There are no innocent people. There are only protestors and fascist swine.
The question Kitaj is posing is who is more ethical--non-violent, inexperienced and sometimes inept Occupy Wall Street protesters--many of them or their families suffering from unemployment, home foreclosures, food insecurity and inability to afford education? Or the demonstrably immoral, super-predatory, politically disingenuous, PR greenwashed and globally, economically, environmentally and culturally destructive neo-liberal corporatists backed up by run amok military might and obscene military spending levels (that have only proliferated global terrorism over the last decade) who they are protesting against?
The truth should be self-evident.
The question isn't who is more or less ethical, the protestors or whomever the protestors may claim to be unethical.
Kitaj's comment was how can I dare criticize the unethical actions of the protestors.
Which, of course, is daft. Blocking auto traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge doesn't have shit to do with anything and isn't going to injure anybody in this incoherent list of bad people you're positing. It's just going to bust the chops of everyday folks, none of whom are known to be stealing the jobs of others or dong any super-predation.
The right to protest is not limited to a bunch of fine young assholes tying up traffic. By gosh, doesn't extend to a fine older asshole such as myself? Must I not protest the protesters?
I have lived a perfectly morally super-advanced and blameless life. I have worked hard for many years helping to heal the sick and spent a decade helping to feed the hungry, collecting food for the food pantries in NYC and working to set up farmer's markets in the middle of the big city so that urbanites can see that there's a better and more environmentally sound way to eat than going to some shitty MacDonalds.
and yet......I told that I must not criticize a bunch of snug little people who probably haven't extended themselves to do any actual and productive work that transcends merely complaining about other people.
far as I can see the evident truth is that my viewpoint and my right to protest is 3.14 times as valid as the bridge trolls. I am obviously morally superior and if I say that they are unethical Kitaj must not dare to criticize me......or we will never have a perfectly moral and prosperous and peaceful world.
remember this, thou metallic personage..........
Being a protester does not mean never having to say you're sorry.
Those are assumptions about people who you don't know. Fine, I'll play too.
As for you, you either want change without pain or you don't want change at all. That's the obvious conclusion.
Blocking a bridge. Oh, the humanity. Will these Bolsheviks stop at nothing!
poor reasoning. you forgot the possibility that I want change WITH pain, but with the pain not inflicted randomly or errantly.
I read a lot on this site about not targeting civilians and I agree with it
I think it might be good to apply it
For those of you with enough mental awareness and clarity of perception (as well as, I suspect, simple honesty) to stay focused on the reason for the NEED to shut down bridges, halt traffic, disrupt "business as usual", interfere with the continuation of corporate criminal activities wherever, whenever, however necessary, a small suggestion:
STOP communicating or answering those individuals on this forum who deliberately attempt to offset the issues, derail insightful commentary, and antagonize your etheric personage with all manner of usually rude verbage.
The purpose is to disrupt.
The point is to get you to communicate;
-- about anything that derails focus on the article content itself or the issues at hand before us.
Engaging in rebuttals is part of keeping the focus on the issues at hand, no?.
Send them a pizza. They deserve all the help we can give them.
Liberatos Pizza & Parmigiana: the Occu-pie.
Put cross-street as Liberty Street.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy
A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
-- John Stuart Mill, writing on the U.S. Civil War in 1862
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."
-- Patrick Henry, speech of June 5 1788
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 1787
& what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-- George Washington, in a speech of January 7, 1790
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
-- John F. Kennedy
No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.
-- 16 Am. Jur. Sec. 177 late 2d, Sec 256
"The state calls its own violence `law', but that of the individual `crime'"
-- Max Stirner
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
-- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861
"I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
There is also the power of non-violent protest and I think that will be much more highly effective in the Occupy Wall Street/Occupy Together movement inside the contemporary U.S. Sympathy nationwide has rapidly grown for the OWS kids the more they remain non-violent in the face of police thuggishness--just like the far-right Israeli government is increasingly isolating itself in its region because of its own thuggishness.
The Israeli government, drunk on its own corporatist neo-conservatism, knows nothing else besides the immediate resort to violence now and I believe our lawless, militarized DHS police state knows nothing better now either.
The honchos of the American police state are praying for an armed violent revolution so they can paint it as terrorist and gleefully crush it with brainwashed public support, but they haven't got clue one how to effectively fight a non-violent mass movement. If the American labor unions will fully rouse and join this non-violent movement it's going to take off like a Saturn Five rocket.
metal, you're so right. you should be attending protests in Syria or Iran or North Korea or Burma or Cuba or Belarus or Sudan or Turkmenistan or Saudi Arabia or China or Eritrea or Laos or Tibet where real democracies are flourishing.
when you return you can lecture further about how the American police state is all militarized.
What are you proposing? Should Metal be proud that his country has not stooped to the level of militarized depravity those countries have? Why should he have to visit another country to know that his country has stepped over the line? Do they set our guidelines for "legal force" or our ethics and morality? Do you think the Dalai Lama would ever promote violence to his people? I am not sure what your point is.
Or perhaps you'd like him to expatriot so that he would make a better target for an executive ordered assassination alike a certain US born cleric, or Rachel Corrie or Furkan Dogan. It would be nice if all those with intelligent voices left this country for a foreign experience. At least for some it would be "nice". For the rest of us their voices would forever be stilled.
what I propose is that metal's rhetoric doesn't match the reality of this world.
metal may be a fine and intelligent person and I hope that is the case, but
"The honchos of the American police state are praying for an armed violent revolution so they can paint it as terrorist and gleefully crush it with brainwashed public support...."
but metal's 'voice' is not intelligent (yet). maybe when the sloganeering and the sophomoric lack of proportion get put away....
EZEFLYER Good Job...Let the Good Times Begin and roll on and on until a new day arises, clean and sweet. We enter the Night...
I say keep it coming. There were more arrests in one day on Saturday than during the entire WTO protest in Seattle. The more peaceful revolutionaries that are arrested for exercising our constitutional rights by the Plutocrat Police Protection, the more it swells our ranks and sparks outrage and solidarity around the country and the globe. Again, keep it coming.
The Seattle police aren't very competent or well-practiced.
They may only have arrested 600 people, but they did manage to fire tear gas, stun grenades and rubber bullets.
The people of Seattle were not at all pleased with the failure of the Seattle PD to stem the rioters before the shit hit the fan and the Police Chief got canned and the mayor voted out.
Which people of Seattle were those? The ones hosting the economic summit?
Jobs have been being shipped overseas for decades not just since 2008. The 1999 WTO protests were about stopping more of them being offshored through trade deals which were being made to keep third world countries down so multinational corporations could prosper at their expense.
Yes, the very people who decided that they, living in Seattle, should decide for themselves how the civic live of the city should be conducted.
It turns out that they believed that they don't favor mindless violence as a form of economic criticism and prefer that assholes who do believe in smashing things should get quickly quashed.
I don't think you can equate the number of people being arrested as a benchmark for success.
It's an "indicator" like so many things Wall St. uses as "indicators". They wouldn't be arresting so many if:
1. The protestors weren't pushing the right buttons, or
2. They'd like to admit that the police seem ill trained to know the difference between legal activities of peaceful protest and those they just don't like.
I am thinking the police force of NYC has spent way too much time being trained to deal with the "imaginary" Muslim threat, and less with legal issues surrounding peaceful protest and protecting it's own citizens from the domestic "terrorists" that are Wall St..
I like the sound of "Wall St.'s Fall" a whole lot better than the overused meme of an"Arab Spring".
I think what you are talking about is methodology and I can't really say what captures the interest or attention of the larger population in this case but it sends a mixed message to many people. The occupation, the message is accomplishing a lot simply by their honest presentation of ideas. It would be great if the police had a model of cooperation with citizens, all citizens and this is certainly an opportunity for that however as you point out the conflicts in methodology and human nature. I'm not so sure what to call it.
Good thing for the protesters that Wall Street isn't in Texas... Probably have 700 more on Perry's death row.
Good news. After all, arrests mean media attention, and far as i know Sky in Aus hadn't mentioned the protests until the arrests.
"An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. "
Martin Luther King Jr., (Letter from a Birmingham Jail)
lets be clear
this absolutely shows with no doubt the attitude of wall street crooks towards the american people
they stole the money, and they intend to keep it, no matter who they hurt
The silent minority has found their voice. They have grown tired of the choice of tweedle dee and tweedle dum, and the rigged system that gives them these choices. They have grown weary of the broken promises, and the foreign wars, the ineptitude of our state departement. They are tired of the monopolies, paying slave wages, and denying health care, etc etc etc. The civil disobedience will spread, the number 700 will be replaced by 7000, and exponentially so on. How long before the police become Protectors Of Liberated Independent Citizens Everywhere, and see the futility of making arrests? The hour of change has arrived, open your minds and hearts to it. Better to swim with the current, than against it.
I hope you are right!
The fact that the NYPD arrested 700 non-violent and peaceful Wall Street protesters, including a 13 year old girl; even pepper spraying innocent protesters, has caused the police to show overtly to millions of Americans what we all knew, that they work for the protection of the $$$$ of Wall Street . The NYPD should be arresting the real Wall Street criminals not the innocent people that have been reporting the robbery. It is like many people calling 911 that a local bank is being robbed and the crooks are still inside, but when the police show up they arrest the innocent citizens and let the bank robbers go scott free!
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