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03.04.11 - 11:35 AM
Go Back Home And Other All-American Chants
Stomach-churning video has surfaced from a Muslim fundraiser in California last month where apoplectic protesters screamed "Muhammed was a pervert!" and "Go home and beat your wife!" as placid families arrived to raise money for women's shelters and fighting homelessness. Elected officials even joined the protesters to make jokes about their Marine sons helping "these terrorists" to an "early meeting in paradise." Sorry, but these are not my people and this is not my country. More here.
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99 Comments so far
Show AllBut so many (like it or not) INSIST there no racism involved in anti-muslim protests as it just people with feelings hurt over 9-11 and it the Muslims who should be considering those hurt feelings rather then stirring the pot.
This is so sad. One wonders what those children think and how that hatred will affect them.
It is not the Muslims who should stay home and shut up. It the idiots in the crowd calling themselves "Patriotic Americans"
As to "perversion" It the United States of America that is the biggest source and largest consumer of "Kiddie porn" and it not Muslims being arrested for the same.
Muslims didn't do 9/11. 9/11 was an inside job. US/UK/Israel, get it?
Oh I am well aware of that which makes one wonder. If they ever do find out the truth will these same people be saying "Christians go home you are not wanted here"?
Good one: the left's answer to the birthers-and only the second post on this thread. Way to go, numb nuts.
dup
Three or four decades ago these same ignorant people, along with these demagoging politicians and wrapped in their AmeriKKKan flags, would have been yelling similar epithets at African-Americans walking into a public school in Alabama or Georgia. The only thing missing here were the police dogs and the fire hoses.
God damn AmeriKKKa!
All true. These folks are themselves the "police" dogs and they are shooting live bullets.
Perhaps a Muslim-American leader will organize a march on WARshington in the tradition of Dr. Martin Luther King in the 1960s. The bigotry and ignorance evidenced by these latter-day Klan members must be challenged.
It is startling how backward AmeriKKKa is, even after all these years. Ignorance and racism are institutionalized in this reactionary and exploitive nation, that was founded on the principles of perverted religious beliefs, genocide and slavery.
Sad! But true!
Well said!
I know I shouldnt say it, but all i could think as i watched these vicious people is "what a bunch of scumbags." To subject children to this is so sick it is beyond words. Makes me ashamed to be an America.
Now we have Huckabee, who is a lineal descendant of Orville Faubus and George Wallace. He's just a tiny bit slicker
Today's so-called patriotic 'Tea Party' has become a cover for shameful anti-Muslim bigotry and racism...falsely targeting and scapegoating a minority religion by conservatives brings to mind the despicable actions of 1930's Nazi Germany.
Tom Joad, they ARE the same people that once fought the civil rights people, just older and now with their brood of morons, like the Phelps Klan, tagging along.
It takes a huge effort, a lot of education, and a lot of time, to get idiots to think.
I wonder if we should even bother, other than to display their stupidity, to even try to make them think. Just surround them with boomboxes playing Bob Marley or Stevie Ray. What are they going to play at us...Lawrence Welk? hahahhahahaha
And to the little boy in that picture. Many of us love you, way more than hate you. I applaud your bravery.
This is to be expected from a nation that still refuses to acknowledge its twin crimes of genocide and slavery. Racism and its need for scapegoats is the cancer that is rotting this nation inside out. We should as a first step recognize these twin crimes by establishing a National Day of Mourning and then proceed to dismantle this entire US enterprise. Or the EU can swiftly send some ships here to collect all these descendants of illegal European settlers.
Fear. Hate. Bigotry. Ignorance. Violence.
Just more signs of empire in its death throes.
You posted: "Fear. Hate. Bigotry. Ignorance. Violence."
Yup, all hallmarks of the American Character from Colonial times.
How else do you think the near extermination of the native peoples was carried out? Nothing has changed.
Non Serviam - I will not serve.
I am not sure I agree that it is a sign of the death of the Empire. We have had Fear Hate Bigotry and Violence for a long time. These things emerge to divide people whenever there is a dollar to be made, labor or land to be stolen.
Agreed. Good points.
I do not like seeing what looks like 8 year olds with hijabs. Kids should have some mental space about religion, its a decision they should make, not their parents.
But this video makes my stomach churn, these people (the chanters) are fascists.
That is a nice sentiment about religious choice, and I agree. Because I am in a marriage in which our two families have different religious backgrounds, we exposed our children to both, and to other customs and beliefs which have nothing to do with us. The kids eventually chose "none of the above".
But around the spring our neighborhood is abloom with cute little bridelets and grooms as kids go through Communion and Confirmation. Baptism and brisses are given without the babies' consent. Protestants, Animists, Hindus and Buddhists impose or expose their children to their religious practices Do Jewish boys have a choice about the yamulka? Do fundamentalist Christian girls get to wear shorts and bikinis? It is not only Muslims.
Most Muslims here are as affectionate, protective, supportive and indulgent toward their children as anyone else. Hijab or no.
Almost everyone is born in the place that has the one true religion. Unfortunates born elsewhere will just have to convert if they want the afterlife with benefits.
No of course, id make the same comments about christians or jews enforcing their values on children. I made the comment in no way with the intention of defending in any way these hate mongerers.
Yesterday, i was watching on Al-Jazeera a report about religious violence in Indonesia and i thought we are next (atheists). As the environment goes to the shitter, the fanatics of all creeds of religions will probably be getting more and more influential, what we see on this video could be what atheists will experience in the near future, for example by refusing to enter a place of worship as people with guns round up people.
I am very nervous about religion right now, and what we see in this video only makes me more so, because this is one faith persecuting another. Someone might say oh these arent "real" christians but history is full of people like them.
Todays moderates could be tomorrow's "Repent or die" people. This type of persecution isnt new and this isnt a crack at muslims, fear mongering, its my apprehensiveness of what environmental catastrophe is going to turn all these religious, impressionable people into if and once the fanatics of each creed becomes more influential. It could take this hate mongering to heights never seen before, on an exponential level.
But even if im wary, persecuting anyone for what they beleive in, even if its dinosaurs in Noah's ark, isnt the way to go.
Does it bother you to see kids wearing crucifixes, too? Like it or not, parents have the right to influence their kids and that influence will be felt for a lifetime. When kids get older, some of them begin to ask questions. That is the time they should be presented with options besides those offered by their parents.
Yes, it bothers me, very much so. And i dont agree we should wait till kids are adults to offer them counterpoints to religious propaganda. That is what punk rock did in the 80s to take one example. My uncle is a christian who thinks anyone who dies without having faith in god is going to burn in hell for eternity. I often offer my views to his children, who are 12 and 14 so that they get a different perspective.
Religion shoved down the throat of children is abuse. It doesnt have anything to do with thinking the west is morally superior... Im not looking at Islam, im looking at all religions. Children should learn about religion, not learn to be religious persons when they dont understand fully what theyre asked to beleive in, without having the mental space first to think it through..
Let me give you some examples, ive got a book here that my mother was forced to read at age 7 in the 1950s and was beaten if she got the answers wrong: (Catholic Catechism)
The book is made in the form of question and answers
What are the 3 powers that our lord Jesus Christ gave to the catholic church?
- The powers to teach, to sanctify, and govern all men
How should we receive what the catholic church is teaching?
- With faith
Why do we have to receive with faith what the catholic church teaches us?
- Because the catholic church talks in the name of our lord Jesus Christ and that it cannot be wrong.
See where im getting at?
From "Le Catéchisme Catholique, édition Canadienne"
I've seen no evidence of thecat trying to force his or her views on anyone. Opinion? Yes, of course, everyone here posts their opinions. Those stating fact usually, or at least often, cite a backing source. In my own opinion, as an agnostic, there may or may not be a god, but no one can prove there is and no one can prove there is not. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. I'm not trying to force you to believe as I do.
I'm with dkshaw and thecat. You are the one here acting as the Enforcer. thecat in no way implied he wanted to force his opinion down anyone's throat. That's your own fear talking. His attitude is light years beyond yours. The archaic norms and suffocating traditions of ALL these religions are what drives the intolerance, hatred and violent ignorance seen on this video. These rightwing Republican morons in CA are straight out of central casting of some medieval, Puritan or early Victorian movie, where heretics or nonbelievers were burned at the stake, pilloried, hanged, subjected to dunking stools (early waterboarding method) publicly humiliated in a thousand ways or otherwise degraded.
Your defense of parents drilling these insane ideas into childrens' heads is what leads directly to all such disgraceful behavior. Religious beliefs are at the heart of what is destroying this pathetic world.
Rant and rave all you want, but if you think religious maniacs trying to enforce their views everywhere can be separated and neatly distinguished from the RELIGIONS they fanatically believe in, there's no way to discuss anything rational with you. That I do comprehend.
Wow. You are so filled with fear and hate. My heart goes out to you.
Capitalism is the destroyer. The State is the destroyer. Religion is just a pawn in a far larger game. With no help from myself or my partner (outside of basic day to day living), both my children have a highly sophisticated understanding of the basic mechanics of capitalism, one that far outstrips their understanding of religion. Can I get away from that and all the resultant destructiveness? Of course not. (And they don't even go to school (we home-educate), where, of course, the indoctrination is even worse.)
It seems as if 'thecat' is being perfectly reasonable. Indoctrination of children is a form of abuse because the point is to stifle self-reflection and education. The intent is to instill a totalitarian system of thinking that claims access to absolute truth before the child is old enough to resist or entertain other options.
The Catholic Church as been the master of this strategy for 2000 years and counting. Because of the growth of secular institutions, science, the Protestant Reformation, etc. the grip is no longer quite so ironclad.
The main problem with the West is not its belief in moral superiority but a great desire to steal everything that is not nailed down. (And later grab the stuff that is nailed down, too.) Religious war/forced conversion often plays a key role in these colonial movements.
Suggesting that it would be a good thing if children got a mix of viewpoints on religion and philosophy while growing up is hardly the same as claiming that parents have a right to shove their religion down their children's throats.
My niece has become a "true believer" Baptist and recently married (second marriage) a Baptist. Her son from a first marriage goes to Baptist school and gets the full indoctrination. They are nice people and I try to avoid discussing religion with them to avoid discord. The most disturbing part has been witnessing my niece transform herself from an open-minded liberal into a right-wing supporter of Sarah Palin, etc. If her son ever asked my views on Jesus and evolution (they don't believe in it), I would give him my honest perspective.
Of more interest, I have a cousin in Australia who became a 'true believer' in a sect of Hinduism while traveling through India about 30 years ago. He was quite fanatic--or committed-- to his religious views and compelled his wife at the time to convert and raised both his daughters in the religion. I got into trouble while visiting the family in Queensland on a couple of occasions because I expressed unacceptable viewpoints on science, and mistakenly offered "unblessed" food to his young daughters.
Later it ended tragically because both daughters left home and broke off contact with their father. One girl died of a heroin overdose at age 19. The other is doing fine but refuses to have any contact with her father over religion.
Recently, I was amazed to hear him voice utter and absolute hatred toward Muslims! He would have fit right in with those Orange County Christian fascists -- except, of course, they would have hated on him, too. Yep, religion makes the world a better and happier place.
Thecat might find this site of interest:
http://www.newatheistmovement.com/childindoctrination.htm
Ms Zimet says:
"Sorry, but these are not my people and this is not my country."
Sorry, Abby, but this most definitely IS your country. And "these people" are, to our apparently-not-great-enough shame, the ones driving the public agenda.
Call out bigotry and willful stupidity. Counter them with empathy and reasoned argument.
You do not counter insane/fanatic/hardcore dogmatic/cynical people with reasoned argument. Actually you do, but i wouldnt waste time with these people themselves, just expose the dangers they represent if they are allowed power, kinda like the power the wisconsin governor has. The nazis got in power with a protest vote, people were so tired and discusted with the political class that they thought how worse can nazis be, lets give em a try.
To me these people are not yet there, but not far from where the nazis were. Would you have gone up to a nazi and tell them examples of good jew people, to try to stop them? How effective do you think that would have been? Do you think some of them were not actually aware that alot of jews were not the stereotype portrayed by nazis? That its just that they wanted to indulge their inner hateful beast? That it was a way to drive the political process in a place where it is ripe for manipulation? That some of them were deceptive and hateful in a self-conscious way ? Not just "lost", ignorant, and manipulated people (although some of them are)?
These type of cynical and self-conscious people are gone, probably nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. It will probably take something like WW2 happening again for these people to stop and say "Oh, what have we done, what kind of monster of human emotion have we woken up?" because they have forgotten, didnt think out the consequences (or didnt care about them) or never knew.
That or an upsurge of sanity as big as the vietnam war brought about because these people are serious fucking trouble for the future if they are allowed to gather more supporters. That will make them become bolder and bolder.
Sorry if i ramble a bit, english is not my first language, i have to go back and edit sometimes to express better what i mean. Now i feel like the woman dragged out of the movie theater in the book 1984
Even if they go by the numbers; how many killed by this country as apposed by the "supposed" attack on 9/11 they got way more than the "pound" of flesh. Tony
There must be a lot of Muslims in this country judging by the statistics on domestic violence and molestation of children. Little girl, your uncle Herb must be Muslim. And they have even infiltrated the Catholic Church. And who knew they were here way back in the nineteenfifties.
Ms. Pauly's City Hall email is:
dpauly@villapark.org
Those distored angry faces remind me of the crowds in the South during school integration in the fifties. Am I naive to believe that there are many non-Muslim people everywhere who do not share the rabid views of this crowd? It would be useful if people who see the destructive nature of such hatred would make some gestures of good will - like walk along with Muslims, participate in welcomes at Muslim centers, set a counter example of what is possible.
The deeper the delusion, the more fervent the belief. Of course, it is likely in OC that more than half of those Muslims entering the mosque are pro-business Republicans and do not see any connection or irony in all this. Like many Americans, they see this as a hateful exercise in free speech. Hate is never the issue. Hate is a weapon, but hate is not in charge. Long as these yahoos are yelling at Muslims, they aren't yelling at the big banks who destroyed their economy and profitted by its destruction.
Ha ha - I'll bet you are right.
"Long as these yahoos are yelling at Muslims, they aren't yelling at the big banks who destroyed their economy and profitted by its destruction."
Divide and conquer, so far seems to work every time.
"one nation under god, not allah!" pretty much sums it all up.
<"one nation under god, not allah!" pretty much sums it all up.>
You'd be surprised, however, just how many people get confused about that. Here in the Czech Republic, I had to explain to a Czech colleague that the word "Allah" simply means "God" in Arabic, and that Christian Arabs in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Palestine, and elsewhere, for example, also pray to "Allah".
It would be the same as if this hate group were attacking Spanish-speaking Catholics by saying, "We believe in one nation under God, not Dios"!
Well put! Thank you.
If the economy doesn't improve we'll see more of this. The guards are safe as long as they can keep the prison gangs attacking each other. The system is in danger only if we start focusing on our common oppressor instead of our individual differences.
Note: I see jareilly & dkshaw expressed similar sentiments earlier.
Nazi comparisons are thrown around too easily but in this case I think Hitler would be proud, ironically enough. I don't think I need to point out the hypocrisy and ignorance to this crowd and it's a damn shame that the people who need it pointed out to them won't be reading news from any actual NEWS source much less be on threads like this. I'm ashamed to be an American after seeing this; even more than usual.
Don't sweat it too much. Bar the councillors (opportunistic, careerist bastards all), we have pretty much the same here in England, except, in true British fashion, ours tend to be a tad more reserved!
orange county? that is a vampire dwelling, unfit for humans to live in.
If this 'protest' wasn't about hate, I must have missed something. Disagreeing is one thing, but screaming like banshees at people with little kids sounds sick to me. But well, I'm living in a part of the world where you're not expected to be 'patriotic' in the way some Americans tend to be.