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10.29.10 - 1:51 PM
Beck's "Us Vs.Them" In All Its Twisted Glory
Charles Wilson, jailed last week for threatening to kill a Washington senator who voted for health care reform, was "under the spell that Glenn Beck cast...his fears were grown and fostered by Beck's persuasive personality," wrote a cousin attesting to his character, if not his taste in "pundits". Meanwhile, the chasm grows with a newly brazen Sharron Angle ad by the so-called Faith and Freedom Coalition that minces no words.
"It's Us versus Them. Big government versus a big belief in faith and freedom." – from the ad, which is less than subtle.
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49 Comments so far
Show AllRacism is making a great comeback this year after years of being forced almost underground and being obligated to use codewords. The angry white racists and theocrats are winning enough public support to take over the congress and begin the work of taking their country back. Women, children and minorities beware!
Um, are there no male atheists? Its a myth that Republicans only hate women, children and minorities. Enough of this old myth that its women or children who are most affected negatively by republican policies. You wouldnt guess it by the number of white men that I see at charities who I have worked for who have been laid off by the greedy corporate monster, have nothing but the clothes on their back after having their homes stolen by the banks after being unable to find a job after months of searching.
The elite dont care about human life at all. For them, the only thing that matters is money. They do believe that a life is worthless, ha no value, if there is not enough cash in its bank account. Foremost, the Republican and Tea Party movements are classist and elitist, they represent the powerful wealthy elite corporations which operate on wall street. There are of course racist components to the Republican party, however, the classist and elitist components pretty much cover the entire party rather than a subset of it. The racist component today is fringe. And it's a distraction from the sinister mainline agenda of the Republicans which is the kill and obliterate the poor and create a corporate plutocracy which is ruled with an iron fist by a wealthy corporate elite and to destroy democracy (code word for this: small government) by buying it and then eventually dismantling it completely. This will lead to a social darwin order where once rights and ability to have a voice, an education or healthy care will depend on whether one is a chosen to be a part of the elite fascist corporate class, if they are not, they are useless rubbish, to be exploited mercilessly or starved to death at the pleasure of the elite. There are those who are classist and elitist but not racist whatsoever and i actually do believe that represents the core mentality of the Republican party today, they just have zero compassion for the poor and downtrodden, they hare them and simply do not care of they die in the street, they dont care if they are black, white, male or female.
Let us be clear that the Republican fascist order, using elite economic control to crush anything that is not under its control, including small businesses, to consolidate power into the hands of massive corporations, to completely subordinate workers, to control all jobs and the money supply, and then purchase and control the elections so that only the wealthy elite with corporate support stand a chance of being elected into the government, is creating a totalitarian authoritarian order which as severe and deadly as anything the nazis envisioned, in this case they are pure social Darwinians and eugenists, instead of killing gypsies or Jews this time they want to eradicate the poor. It does doesnt matter who it is, it is a crime against humanity of the most secure degree, killing is killing, does not matter if its gypsies, gays, jews, or those deemed to no longer be profitable for exploitation by the wealthy corporate elite.
Each person has a right to food, water, shelter, and health care and college education, and they have a right to an elected government that is democratically controlled, and to unions that work to assure they have a safe working environment. They have a right to set up their own businesses as well and not ton be a slave to enrich wealthy elites. These rights are not to held exclusively by an elite plutocracy, however they are now.
Its clear that we need a strong movement that will take back control for common people, to reform all corporations into worker owned democracies with profit sharing, to raise the minimum wage and set a maximum wage which is no more than 3 times the minimum wage, and to establish in the Constitution right of all persons to a clean environment, college education, food, water, health care and housing, and to prohibit all corporate finance of issues advertising and corporate campaign contributions, as these are rights of real biological persons, and universal unions, and establish a independant. democratic media that will be free of all corporate and political influence and will be publicly funded.
Its clear the USA is on the road to classists fascism, which is just as severe as Nazi fascism. and that is not a term i use lightly. they do want to kill. There is a certain inhuman heartlessness, pure greed and ruthless authoritarianism about what we are seeing today, for instance, in banning even those who are asking for help on the street from even doing so, which shows a total sociopaths murderous hate for the poor who they think should be eliminated via Republican policies, instead of helping the poor these people are basically rendering them without any way to survive and to the dark corners of society where they hope they will die of starvation so they dont have to look at them on the street anymore. Republican solution to poverty: Kill the poor.
All very true and something we should think about long and hard, and the same goes for the Dims who work for the same corporate ownership class.
i'm under no glenn beck spell,
but i could wring someone's neck over our $1200 / month mandated corporate insurance
with too much deductibles and copay
to use.
Ive no idea where you get that figure, nor did you bother to link to any credible source. But enjoy your next Tea Party rally, by all means.
for those more concerned with facts than fictions:
We face, in this nation, a fight on several fronts if we wish to save our democracy. The misconceptions and outright falsehoods spread with an agenda that escapes those who willingly pass on such stuff is one such, as notsocuriousteve's example so willingly offers. I am not a supporter of what I know about this health care reform, but I do believe that figure to be about as correct as most everything else coming from such as he. Now he may very well work for a company that expects him to pay such an unwieldy amount, but that has little to do with the reform measure enacted by Congress as he implies.
The "reform" does, however, deserve criticism , but of a more accurate nature. The guarantee of continued usurious profit for the insurance industry being one such. Which illustrates a second problem, the enacting of legislation benefiting only the corporations that own our politicians. A remedy, the ending of the power of money over the process, seems a distant dream today, in part, sorry oh curious one, because so many are willing to drink the kool aid which leads them directly away from real facts and real solutions.
Steve's figure of $1,200 is absolutely ballpark--and rising fast. Here's a sample of prices in NY:
http://www.ins.state.ny.us/hmorates/html/hmoqueen.htm
Note that while the minor carriers have cheaper premiums, their copays and deductibles (like $10,000!) make coverage unaffordable.
But the most egregious thing about the health care 'reform' bill is that it does nothing to reign in costs. So while the bill states that you can't be denied insurance if you have a preexisting condition, there's also nothing in the bill stopping insurers from charging you whatever they damn please. There's also no shortage of loopholes. Here's one horrific reality taken from an interview with Jane Hamsher:
'..insurance companies are skirting the requirement that they cover children with pre-existing conditions: six major companies have announced they will no longer write new policies for individual children.'
[the full interview here]
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/10/28/obama-vs-reality-on-jon-stewart/
I heard someone from the administration say 'there's nothing we can do about it'! If you believe that despite holding the presidency and majority in congress--and despite the moral imperative--the democrats can't even ensure that all kids are covered, then you are simply as victimized by propaganda as the teapartiers.
Don't be so quick to paint everyone who opposes the democrat's 'giveaway to insurers and big-pharma disguised as a health care bill' as a right-winger. The most legitimate criticism comes from the left.
The fee increases have been going on for decades, this is nothing new, so for those who say its because of the bill, they are lying as usual. Much of the bill hasnt even gone into effect so there is no excuse at all for any fee increases because of it.
while that in the bill there is a partial skeleton of a bill that could be workable, you are right the bill is basically a failure because it was gutted out and manipulated by insurance company lobbyists who likely snuck in all sorts of weasel clauses into it and so on.
We could have a system similar to Switzerland where there are heavily regulated non profit insurance companies. Even an independant public option which could offer the lowest price and best coverage possible would have been enough, the private insurance companies would be forced to compete. To make it harder for Republicans to oppose that, these public options could have even been elected by those who recieve their insurance from them, so they are completely democratic.
You could then take your voucher for the subsidy for insurance and buy into the public option. The vouchers are being funded by a tax on the wealthy,
There are actually certain benefits to creating one or more public options, rather than going a single payer route, psychologically it can obtain similar ends without the appearance of the government take over and would preserve choice in insurance provider.
Of course, the public option should be avialable, asking people to b e required to buy into private insurance and subsidise the lavish lifestyle of private CEOs is outrageous. The public option would have been key to reducing costs similar to as in canada since it should be required to bargain down the costs as much as it can.
Ive wanted to see, funded by a tax on the wealthy, all coverage gaps completely closed by making sure there is no gap between whose who are qualified to receive a voucher to to purchase insurance on the exchange (including the public option), and medicare programs which should be extended to cover more low income groups. Again the bill fails at this so basically the universal coverage selling point is not useable/
How did we get here? The fact is that the public option and universal coverage could have passed if just a few republicans signed on. None did. There were also several blue dog democrats who demanded water downs. So it was the republicans and the blue dogs that led to this disaster.
There were solutions even to Republican concerns that would have stopped many criticisms over the mandatory buy in. First i think the employer mandates should be dumped completely, Instead we can fund the vouchers with taxes on corporate profits and the wealthy. Just to prevent any accusation, only non job creating profits would be taxed, profits actually going to create new jobs would be exempt.
An opt-out for the individual mandate could have also been provided, a person would sign a disclosure form that would also inform them that the pre-existing conditions perotections would lapse if they opt out and do not buy insurance within a buy in period, which would put them in the same situation they are in now anyway. In fact, the law could be changed to initiate a tax to pay for health care coverage, revenue from which would go into a randomly selected insurance plan, which would entirelyu cover the insurance, including the public option or other plans benchmarked to work as effectively as the public option. The opt out form would be a tax exemption. if the person decides to choose their own plan on the exchange (such as specifically the public option) the tax would also be suspended and they would directly pay the insurance company. Basically those who do not select any plan would automatically be put on one funded by a tax, its possible they could be automatically be placed on the public option by default. They could opt out of any insurance coverage by filling out a disclosure that the pre-existing condition protection will lapse. Those moving from medicare or between insurance companies, would be given a new buy-in period with pre-existing conditions protection. This would demolish the idea of a mandatory buyin and would remove that thing to criticise by Republicans.
To blunt criticism that the public option would recieve special favours, a federally backed reinsurance program should be created which could be used by the public option and as well any other insurance companies, however designed so that the money can only be used to pay for care, and will not enable an increase in profits of a corporation.
Automatically placing those with pre-existing conditions on medicare, funded by a tax on the wealthy. would blunt criticism or concern that the bill will cause insurance rates to rise.
Buying pools should have been set up, such as one for prescription drugs, others for other things, which could be participated in by consumers, insurance companies and hospitals to work to bargain down the price of all items.
My critique was directed at the idea 'curioussteve' advanced that the bill is responsible for the higher premiums. I find his comment to be in line with other posts he has offered here along these same lines. I would also note that he never sticks around to defend his posts, at least not in my experience.
Of course the bill is flawed and, as Obama is the current "decider" it is legitimate to state that it is ultimately his responsibility. While that bill has one or two decent changes within it it is, in the main, a guarantee of further profits for the corrupt and amoral insurance industry. Medical costs including insurance have been skyrocketing for decades, this nation pays double what the next most expensive system charges world wide and gets only the 37th best health care for that usurious charge.
But, bottom line, that post to which I objected is flawed and paints an incorrect picture.
Austerity programs all over the world are decimating Las Vegas: no one feels like a Vegas Vacation anymore and its about to get worse. Hence, Nevada could USE a little bit o' that 'big government spending' right about now. Angle's philosophy is the worst possible fit for Nevada, right now, but, hey, its up to them. If they no longer want to over-tax wealthy Californians and spend that money on newly impoverished Nevadans, well, more power to them. I live in California/Hawaii, so I don't see how Angle's becoming a Senator is a bad thing for me. If the Tea Partier's ascent to power leads to a reduction in Federal Spending via lowered taxes, I think no one gains by that situation more than the wealthier Blue States. Being Blue, they will likely raise state taxes to cover their own impoverished, and the poor in the Red States can pray because, ya know, when you got that ol' time religion, you just don't need nothing else.
BTW: did anyone else notice from this ad that the Tea Partiers are afraid to show Angle's face anymore, much less let her open her mouth? Too funny.
Yeah, she's funny... like smallpox. Hopefully the damage is done, whether or not they trot her out in front of the cameras anymore. This wave of sh**bags can't implode fast enough.
The pernicious effort to eliminate the separation of church and state belies the intention to create a Christian Taliban and a theocracy. The highly the misleading "Faith and Freedom" appeals and deceives simultaneously.
It is not faith that is endangered but the freedom to choose one's faith. And the threat is not from atheists (scapegoats) but from deeply religious and extremely narrow-minded individuals who loathe the freedom to choose one's religion if it fails to qualify as the "true Christian" set of beliefs just as they loathe anything that threatens and challenges their beliefs (science, for example).
When a religious spokeperson praises the Spanish Inquisition and longs to recreate its equivalent today, its speaks of a sick and perverse mind far from the teachings of Jesus the Christ.
Using hot button phrases and words such as "big government" (big for whom? Wall Street, Banks, and others (Xe) are doing just fine with their contacts in and contracts with big government) or "atheist" (in my 70+ years I have yet to be accosted by an atheist attempting to convert me not so with assort religious groups).
Depicting atheists as a threat to one's religious beliefs is a dishonest and deceptive plus it provides the way to attack (horrors of all horrors) godless evolution and ultimately godless science itself-replacing scientific inquiry and discovery with the Bible is the ultimate religious wet-dream.
For some 2000 years it did an excellent job of perpetuating fear,superstitions, myths, ignorance, poverty, disease, murdering non-believers, repression of the masses...all with the promise of a wonderful afterlife (hee hee) if only... (while those in power and influence lead a good life while living) What a future to look forward to!
Wait!! Aren't we along that pathway already?
Exactly, religion and spirituality that encourage people to accept arguments without supporting arguments on "faith" alone are mental poison.
Yes, talk to everyone you encounter. People aren't stupid, nor as mean spirited as the media portrays.
That's the rub, the media, the fourth dead branch. Media brings Beck into people's living rooms, personal electronic contact, like family and phones. Beck and the rest sell fear and people hate to be afraid, so the media, as civic contribution, supplies the targets and directs the fire.
Frank Zappa said, "Politics is the entertainment branch of industry."
Noël Coward asked in song, "Why must the show go on?"
Unplug yourself.
Take Jill's advice. Talk to people, all of them. You just might find they are nothing like the Bozos on television.
For the moment, I am totally speechless regarding the screaming oxymoron :
"Faith AND Freedom"
(Perhaps, having recovered SOME speech : 'Faith OR Freedom would have made sense!)
Wiki.... 'Nathan Alterman's 'SUMMER NIGHT' on oxymoronas!..
"One was blind and the other couldn't see,
So they chose a dummy for a referee.
A blind man went to see fair play,
A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"
A paralysed donkey passing by,
Kicked the blind man in the eye,
Knocked him through a nine inch wall,
Into a dry ditch and drowned them all,
A deaf policeman heard the noise,
And came to arrest the two dead boys,
If you don't believe this lie is true,
Ask the blind man; he saw it too'
Such a good example of the poisonous whispers of these people who are speaking to the mindless, or, just as bad, the equally vicious, so that they can rule a few nincompoops. Hopefully only a few, not enough to have them killing those who WON'T be 'freed'.
~sc
I was reminded by the poisonous 'whisperings' being dripped into the ears of the gullible-bored, and the vicious people who want to become rich and influential over others to free them into servitude via 'religious' threats
of the guys speaking in DANTE'S INFERNO.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdqY2a9iRXw
Children thrill to the sights.. and some never have the reasoning power to understand it is all make-believe.
~sc
The pilot portrayed could, 'if you loved Jesus' drop death on Iraqis... would wipe out innocents, in giggling fits (like the helicopter murdered innocents walking across the square)
Oh, what deeds are done in the name of Jesus! I don't know where the biblical 'GOD' comes in.... other than that 'He' has 'strangely' been allotted all the human species worst traits.
~sc
Jesus did say that people would do terrible things in his name. For centuries this has been the case. I am greatly offended when I see posters like that, because I think of all the healing that Jesus did -- without asking for money or making a profit. I think of the simple life he led -- lower middle class to poor by today's standards.
P.J. O'Rourke was just on NPR spouting nonsense about climate change and the problem with the "nanny state," a truly ridiculous and offensive term that is given to countries who use the taxes of the citizenry (from their hard work) to benefit said citizenry. I'm still trying to figure out what is so "nanny" about that? Right now the taxes I am paying is going to kill people and I am very angry about that. And if a country is rooted in real Christian principles then we don't foist our beliefs upon people, we are all equal, we take of each other (the least of these) without asking for a profit, we respect our land, and I could go on and on. My country has rarely, if ever, espoused Christian principles. However, it does bear a striking resemblance to the Babylon described in Revelations. We spew hatred and violence and death in every direction and we don't give a crap about human or animal life.
I'm sorry, I have days when I just really get fed up. Yesterday, the son of my son's 70-year-old pharmaceutical drug-dealer came looking for money from him. It shook me up quite badly. The cops turn a blind eye to this kind of stuff, here. The blame for this? That good "christian" policy known as Prohibition. BigPharma good, BigPharma saves lives, BigPharma does God's work, while God's creation (weed) is demonized. Total insanity.
Samalabear: my Christianity is mostly the Gospel of Thomas--no flashy magic tricks. But aside from that, I agree with everything you say. The hatefulness of what passes for Christianity in this country is astonishing. But so is the failure of our clergy to stand up and denounce these perverse "Christians"--although, admittedly, they wouldn't get much airplay.
You have my deepest empathy in your disgust of Big Pharma. Even the "healers" in this country are vipers.
Elizabeth: I just finished reading Robert Whitaker's book, Mad in America. The book is a devastating critique of the "mental health" industry in the U.S. Some of what he reported, I knew, but the history of mental health in the U.S. is beyond the pale. Of course, Robert Whitaker is marginalized because he tells the truth. I have been recommending the book to people I know. During the late 1970s, if you recall from one of our previous conversations, I dealt with my mother's prescription drug addiction, all prescribed by a psychiatrist in Omaha, NE. The book is an eye-opening account, and well-sourced. I also watched a talk on BookTV -- Robert Whitaker: An Anatomy of an Epidemic, April 2010. Anyone who wants to watch can go to BookTV and enter Robert Whitaker in the search box. The video is available.
"Even the 'healers' in this country are vipers." -- Elizabeth H
I agree with you!
Yes, Whitaker is a bit of a problem for the psychiatrists; he's the Assange of the profession, particularly with Anatomy of an Epidemic, which carefully displays how the psychiatric journals themselves have been publishing data that shows that long term psychotropic use of any kind is statistically worse than none. Mad in America was well received, but Anatomy is too damning: it's about the present situation.
I've seen too many people go down on those drugs, including a psychiatrist, the "regional expert" on depression. He rented a hotel room one day and shot himself in the head.
I wish some TV preacher would come to a realization and tell the story of "The Good Muslim" - noone understands the context of "Samaritan" anymore... They think the word means "Someone known for helping others" instead of the use in context of "The most despised social group in society at the time/place of it's being told".
One of The Tea Party's faces is Rand Paul, another is Sarah Palin... they want to control the mindless people... and believe it can be done.. sly whisperings as the above video shows...droping poison into the lowest of mentalities....
Only money and time can get a person over to 'rationalise' with people who hate your guts for what you have 'rationally' done to them.
One can't speak and subdue with 'rational attempts such as this kind who speak to people who can understand 'folksy' talk.
Palin : 'God told me he wants me to get that gas pipe-line finished' - 'Putin had better not raise his head over Alaska'.. (Mayor of that metropolis 'Wassila' speaking!)...
'God has chosen me (little me) from under the umbrella of this church, in which I was baptised and grew up, to do his work....'
Thus speaks the female addressing a congregation of a crowd of whirling dervishes, speakers in tongues (the language spoken in heaven!!) known as 'Assemblies of God'..
HOW CAN YOU 'TALK to these deranged people.. Go amongst them and try to talk rationally? And who has the TIME when one is working day and often night in the house or outside... trying to keep body and soul together for one's own family.... those who don't need to do that.. aren't interested in fighting 'your' battles. Catch 22
As for going over to Iraq Iran Israel/Pakistan and trying to 'talk sensibly' to them.... as if they are intersted in 'you'...well you will get your head severed. Trouble makers trying to 'do good' in a dire situation where there is suffering and blood and hatreds and fears everywhere... troublemakers, that is, thinking 'I AM SPECIAL, I am the new JOAN OF ARC..and 'I' will soon settle these people down... uh, uh.
~sc.
As I have so often mentioned.. Many of the Founding Fathers of America were DEISTS... some americans who had never heard of the word, let alone spell it...screamed : You are lying.. you hate america!
This is what the world is trying to deal with.
Deism is NOTHING like Christianity... and of late *I* have been told that: 'I bet you didn't know that some of our Founding Fathers were SAID to be 'Diests', but I always knew that is what is being said. And it is wrong.. they were ALL Christians.
Has all americans from the founding fathers down been believers in Deism, the world would have been a lot better off..... In fact, if EVERYONE in the world believed in the Deist idea of god... we would most certainly have been better off.. .One less thing for the demented to murder each other over.
~sc
Not quite right, but this isn't an antagonism. Deism is monotheistic, which is unknown. Spawned during the age called Enlightenment, Deism is a step better than the dogmatic Abrahamic nonsense, but still lacking. The good side is that it is based on Nature and natural reason that resides within the individual. No one has to tell anyone that murder is wrong.
No one knows who or what is the power behind the Universe.
Sioux term - Wakan Tanka; the Great Mystery
The equation of faith and freedom is nonsense. Faith is a kind of mental slavery, and all too often cannot bear the imposition of other opinions or even tolerate the existence of other opinions.
A church in my town recently put up a message which made me howl: "Freedom is the result of a god-centered existence." Really? Freedom is submission to a jealous deity?
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, wrote Orwell, and that is certainly true in a theocracy.
Good post.
Yes, this church's slogan is a rephrasing of Orwell's "Freedom is Slavery" from 1984. Which tells us that we are getting closer and closer to Orwell's dystopian vision all the time.
"Faith and Freedom" is a perfect example of Doublethink.
Glen Beck, master of the double bind (and his crazy listeners love it).
Glen Beck is going to HELL ...
...in a bucket?
Nope...a handbasket.
Religion and Faith, are for people that are afraid of dying, and don't understand the reason they exist. So they pay some asshole, to tell them how to think, and what to believe. It takes away their own responsibility, and leaves the answers to the questions in the hands of the guy they pay money too., This way they don't have to worry anymore.
It's crazy how one guy can say "God talked to me" and people pay him money, and another guy can say the same thing, and they put him in the nut house. That has always made me laugh.
Now is an EXCELLENT TIME for ALL Americans to read the 60 year-old book by Eric Hoffer called =THE TRUE BELIEVER=. Hurry!
Both Democrats and Republicans appear to have decided that talking about the wars is not in their best interest. Democrats are divided on the war, and do not want to air internal divisions in a year when they have so many other problems. Republicans are unified in support of the war in Afghanistan and Mr. Obama’s decision to send more troops there, but see no need to stress an issue on which they are more or less allied with him.
From the Gray Lady
Glen Beck & Obama agree!
'karlof1 October 29th, 2010 7:29 pm
"Faith and Freedom" is a perfect example of Doublethink.
Yes I suggested above...the truth-functional connective 'and' is misplaced..
'Faith AND freedom'... should (rationally) read :
Faith OR freedom
~sc
AMEN!
What if I want the "freedom" NOT to have your "faith" shoved down my throat?
mmmm
godless sex
~~lol
I do believe this could be classified as a mental illness.
What I am not sure is whether this delusional state has any cure, aside from death?
"It's Us versus Them. Big government versus a big belief in faith and freedom."
Belief in faith seems like a weird meta-faith (faith in faith). So I guess they’re really saying it's big government versus faith-squared and, of course, freedom.
But which is Us and which is Them. Logically, since Big government is mentioned first, I would have to assume bg corresponds to Us, meaning the faith squared folks are Them. This is likely a Freudian truthyslip on Ralph Reed's part (i.e., he would like to be back on the inside of big government exploiting the religious right...).
"Faith and Freedom Coalition that minces no words."
These people are the United Stazi of America, I know , I have been stalked an harrassed by right wing religious community watch torture freaks for over 3 years.
Their goal was to drive me crazy, cause me financial destruction, and then watch me committ suicide and or be thrown in the coo coo house.
I may be broke , and bankrupt, but I am not in the coo coo house, I joined the Democrats , helped Obama get elected , and now help with our Democratic Election committy in my town.
And every chance I get , I remind Christians that this is our country, belivers and non belivers,
It does not belong to the Christians, or the military industrail complex, or the bankers.
And , the United Stazi of America are the bigest group of criminals that threaten America.
And soon , all of America will know of this evil group of anti patriotic/anti American thugs and torture freaks, unless they disappear, and are never seen or heard from again.
Google Gang Staklers,,, that is the Faith and Freedom Coalition, and they are dangerous.
save us from the sodless godomites!!!
"those who are not against us are for us." - JC
this cuts two ways.
silence is complicity.
speak out against the madness - if you dare.
(and isn't "Godless Atheists" redundant?)
Samna :
"Jesus did say that people would do terrible things in his name. For centuries this has been the case. I am greatly offended when I see posters like that, because I think of all the healing that Jesus did -- without asking for money or making a profit. I think of the simple life he led -- lower middle class to poor by today's standards."
.................................
We have a Saint now, an Australian Saint.... First one. She healed, too.... for of course, to be made a Saint one has to have performed miracles... Seems she did. Just like Jesus.
Saint Mary McKillop... Australia's first saint, never asked for money. She had far more interesting things to do that money can't buy.
~sc
Buck..
"Not quite right, but this isn't an antagonism. Deism is monotheistic, which is unknown."
I don't really understand - You don't mean that 'monotheistic' means 'unknown'? When it means : belief that there is only one God.. not 'many'. As is the belief of many religions, but not all.
In my studying days, we were taught that Deists believed in a god 'that' had no personal interest in what 'it' had created. And, yes, that no other 'attributes' that it MIGHT have can be known by us.
"The number of Deists in the U.S."
14 Mar 2009 ... 12% are Deists (believe in a higher power but not a personal God) even though the vast majority have never heard of the term. 2 ...
www.religioustolerance.org › World religions › Deism
So, if this be thge case, we have to make up our own rational code of behaviour ('moral' code) on what we believe is best for our society at any given time. Which can change as circumstances change. Then again what is 'rationally right' to do is decided on what the powerful over us decide is 'rationally right' ... (for them!
What a mess!
~sc
I'm still trying to figure out what "belief in faith" means...
It's a circle, they have belief in faith which they have belief in which is faith which the believe in....
Just don't try to tell them it's circular reasoning. 1/2 :)