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05.14.10 - 12:44 PM
"A Gift Of Intervention"
In their God-given, gun-toting wisdom, the Louisiana House has voted to allow churchgoers to carry concealed weapons in houses of worship to protect themselves against, umm, whatever. Supporters say show them where it says in the Bible you can't bring a gun to church to praise the Lord of peace.
"I don't think God said it was OK to carry a gun in the house of the Lord. If you need to have a gun in church, you need to go to another church." - Rep. Barbara Norton, D-Shreveport, who opposes the bill.
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144 Comments so far
Show AllThe hand written scrolls of the New Testament clearly state that true Christians are pacifists, in honor of our Lord's example.
ANCIENT GREEK
“I now say to you, Do not use force to overcome evil.
Instead, whenever you are slapped on the right cheek
you must turn to them also the other.” Mt 5:39
“Every man - government with its deadly force he must be
in submission to. Never for an absolute is there force that
kills if not under God. The reason being by God it is allowed
to prove the corruption of it...
Because of this then also taxes pay to government authorities
who rule by deadly force. For the Lord allows it to exist to
establish something, for their terrorism in this way continues
without end.” Ro 13:1
They didn't pay any taxes in the Central American states of the Aztecs, etc...
Sure, I believe you.
[That was a different place on the planet]
Mexico City is where their capital used to be. They built quite the civilization, So did the natives who lived in the area around Honduras and further south in Chile. Thing is, they were descendants of the same people who produced the tribes of the Northeastern Americas. OF course when they engaged in conflict, the results were rather bloody according to the archaeological evidence, and the very biased historical record that the Spaniards left. (I should say very very very biased...) According to the Spaniards they were far more violent in their church services than those who bring guns to church are today.
I'm not sure which tribes you're talking about, I've assumed that you're talking about the ones who originally lived in the northeastern states and Canada. From the other biased historical sources (from the French and the English) the natives of the northeast were more than happy to use European technology and alliances to wipe out their neighbours. For example the English didn't kill all of the Huron, the Iroquois helped that little operation whenever possible. (Again, that's what the English and the French wrote...)
I don't think anyone has the money to pay their bills anymore, I sure don't. Perhaps that's why people want to bring their guns to church, maybe their looking for god - so they can shoot the sob.
Course not, the Europeans did themselves a favour by coming here. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the visiting was in the other direction, but that didn't happen.
Not everything written by those who lived long ago is bull, and there are ways of finding out what happened more accurately than by relying solely on what the victors said about something.
[Do you think your Big Oil Spill, Nuclear Waste, poisoned air, poisoned water, poisoned land, and poisoned food supply did the Tribes or anyone any Big Favor.]
I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth (or is that letters on my keyboard?). I have never said any of those things, nor have I ever thought that our ancestors did anyone any favours. (except maybe the rich and powerful doing each other favours of course)
I have read the Gnostic Gospels. I do believe you are reading other versions written and re written over and over to fit the political climb of the times by men who belong to the hallelujah groupies.
It is said, that the Christ said to his angry followers....They demanding and asking him ….”When will the kingdom come? When will the kingdom come? ” The Christ said, “Men are blind and do not see. The kingdom is all around you. This is your heaven and you are too blind to see it”.
Now my take on that is….Our heaven is right here on earth and we are too blind to see it. People seek something outside of this earthly plane that does not exist and because of that, they fail to take action to take care of what they have because they are waiting to get to heaven to enjoy the good life.
Faith is a different thing. Faith in something greater than yourself, and gets one thought the toughest of times. However, sitting an letting the earth die or allowing a fellow human be abused at the hands of another….is the biggest sin. The world is round for a reason ….what you put out there comes around and right back at cha.
Since some of the most hate-filled people I have ever known were regular church-goers, and given the lethal combination of hate and guns, I guess the Lord will understand if people avoid church in that state.
You know, some of the most hate filled people I ever knew never went to church. The Lord well understands hate filled people no matter their location I'm sure.
Well, i suppose now they can just shoot each other,like fish in a barrel with a cross on top!
And the minister better not say anything the parishoners may not like......
OWN A GUN -- BETTER OF TWO EVILS
As a pacifist may I point out, that the worst of all evils is government.
“The whole world is under the control of the evil one…
The power of death and deadly force, that is the devil.”
I John 1:9, Hebrews 2:14
And so, in the eyes of heaven the better of two evils is for everyone to own a gun who uses force, and then to take from government all its deadly force.
The Beast in Revelation is what controls Empire USA. Namely a power combine, the 666 richest and most powerful men.
And the gold cup in the hand of Babylon, “the mother of the prostitutes,” this is divorce court. For to give sex in exchange for a property settlement, this is what divorce court is all about.
Biggest problem in America today, men worshiping women that's what I always say.
There has been a reading from Revelation at every mass since Easter this year, and I took to reading this very passage you're talking about above and the U.S., really does fit the bill. I find that my country, with its BS about freedom and democracy, is an abomination before God. I have never been one to worship anyone in power. I am very grateful that I am not under the spell of the Obama or, for that matter, someone like Bloomberg, someone who as no other, has furthered the transformation of NYC into the Great City.
I'll grant that carrying a semiauto into the House of the Lord would be inappropriate in most places, but personally I would not set foot in any church southeast of Missouri without the ability to defend myself.
You need to add Southeast Missouri to the list, I know.
You can 'prey' with a Glock but with a Burqa, eh? We need a different god to pray at.
Humbamba....Excellent!
Well, at least they won't have to carry the bodies too far for their burials...
Says something about the real power of this 'gawd' that his worshipers seem to want to have a defence against threats when they visit their god's house of worship. How powerful is their faith? They claim to be saved and await an eternity of joy and bliss with their lord and saviour, yet want to delay that meeting for as long as possible. Or send so many others to meet him first...
"Well, at least they won't have to carry their bodies too far for their burials..."
I wish i would have said that! Still...I'm glad someone did.
In case of Rapture, can I have your Glock semi-automatic?
No, those are needed for the final battle against Satan's armies/UN peacekeepers. ;)
Ah c'mon! And you guys call yourselves Americans???? Every good bible thumping American knows that Jesus tossed the money changers out of temple...to make room for gun racks!!! Hey! I didn't say it, God did!!
I would think, for a young church-going boy, a taser would be sufficient defense...
unless the priest is on PCP or something, the taser should stop him in his tracks...
and the boy won't be accidentally shooting himself, or anyone else, with live rounds, either...
if the older boys feel they need guns, well, they would know...
"a taser would be sufficient defense...
unless the priest is on PCP or something, the taser should stop him in his tracks..."
You my friend, have obviosly never had to take down a charging priest with body armour under his vestments!!!
blessed are the Peacemakers...and the Magnums...
HOLY Shit!!!
Dear Jesus, I pray that you save me from religious zealots--particulary ones who carry gun in church.
Amen
Fear our government as it does carry guns in war, and you fear a far greater evil then citizens bearing arms in church.
That fails miserably as an addition to the beatitudes.
What in God's name would one need a gun for in church?
Here are a few reasons a law-abiding person would want to carry concealed in church...
February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.
March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himself, but survived, when his gun jams.
July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens firein a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.
Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and fivewounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.
May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.
Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.
May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell, 25, was the shooter.
Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend, later killed himself.
April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old
airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.
March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before taking his own life.
July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers
Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.
Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine-hour standoff.
Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.
June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine
monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.
March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.
May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak
Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her and a woman trying to help her.
Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist
Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.
April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library,killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.
[Here are a few reasons a law-abiding person would want to carry concealed in church...]
They're also a few reasons why the all powerful and all merciful and all knowing god idea is a crock. Shouldn't he be able to prevent his faithful followers from being killed in their churches? I suppose you could argue that it was god's will that they be shot...
Holy Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!! No wonder I don't like going to church. There are all kinds of goofballs in thoses edifices.
Christ only knows what a bunch of gun-toting crazies are found there.
Hallelujah and pass the ammunition.
What part of 'I shall fear no evil...' did you not get?
Wow, and I thought the abortion clinic was a dangerous place!
All of them examples of what happens when people bring guns to church.
perfect!
Bingo, GwNorth!
Cicero: "Freedom is participation in power."
18 incidents in a nation of 300 million people spread out over an 11 year period is remarkably few, actually. But only in America would people opt for more gun carriage rather than metal detectors and wand searches for their churches. I guess metal detectors and wand searches would be too constant and in-your-face a reminder of how vulgar and violent our dumbed-down nation has become, whereas concealed guns help hide all the ugliness---until the shooting erupts.
Well there you go! Don't go to church! I don't and I feel perfectly safe. :)
Off topic is your question for the real issue is: Why should we be so insane as to allow our satanic government to have even one gun?
For the purpose of this world is to teach us to always pick the better of two evils.
The goal being for us to realize that this day of life is more then anyone deserves, and with such a grateful mind to be a pacifist who always gives all he can give.
Where do they draw the line. You never know when a blasphemer may show up on Sunday. Are you restricted to handguns, or can you bring rifles, BARs, mortars, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers, and/or rockets?
The gun lobby has become so powerful it has gone totally bonkers. I just hope eventually it's arrogance bites it the ass.
All that is needed now for heaven on Earth is the churches to start selling beer.
Isn't it fun being distracted from the screwing-over we are all getting from the Dem Majority and Mr. Hope 'n Change by Zimet's daily dose of "Culture Wars" B.S. ?
Please someone, explain to me why it is such a big deal for Louisiana to EXTEND their already generous concealed-firearms permits to include churches?
But REALLY explain it. Don't just assume I'm down for some mindless, polarizing rant or throwaway line.
These folks are walking around almost everywhere else "packing heat" and what has come of it? Before concealed-firearm permits people carried guns around and some tiny few committed a crime or shot someone with them. After concealed-firearm permits, it's the same.
This seems parallel to legal abortion or legal drugs and booze: people will do it whether it is illegal or not, legalizing it brings it out into the open, robs organized crime from revenue, and makes things safer and more peaceful.
BTW, I have never owned a gun in my life and am LEFT of this kind of HuffPost Northeastern Liberal talk, so please no attempts to paint me as GW Bush's bosom buddy, okay?
-matti.
matti, i couldn't agree more!
I have said this myself many times. And i ususally don't 'bite'.
I have also likened this culture wars stuff to the huffington post. And said it here.
If Fox news and the teabaggers didn't exist, the dems would have had to invent them. (apologies to voltaire).
Good to see you again, Jill.
How true. I know you know that 'liberal' and 'conservative' has lost all meaning.
I have taken to just saying that the apocalypse is beginning to get on my nerves...
Although i must say that there are some very witty posts to this article. And comic relief cannot be overestimated at this point.
rita
Before anyone paints me as a fan of Barry or a troll or any of the other derogatory terms favored on these threads, please read my posts on countless articles on Common Dreams. My writings will clear up any of those suspicions. Regarding this article, I think the three of you have missed the point of Zimet's piece. With all respect, this is about the absurdity of how the Amerikkan culture has sunk so low that it feels compelled to bring firearms into places of worship.
Yes, Amerikkka is a violent, decadent empire that is rapidly declining toward oblivion and Barry Obama is channeling W. Bush in his foreign and domestic policies. But this article doesn't have anything to do with Barry, the Huffington Post or Northeastern liberals or any other group except the wackos who think that carrying guns into churches is cool.
TomJoad, i wouldn't say such a thing about a poster here. And i know you are sincere. And i think your point is well taken.
And i did post earlier here.
However, as a rule, many of the culture wars articles, especially in this column, are sideshows. And i was glad to see it pointed out so eloquently.
peace.
Don't wallow in culture wars? Have you checked out what Glenn Beck and his minions are talking about doing to people like me (progressives) should they ever gain control of the military (oops, I mean, government)? The word 'purge' is the euphemism du jour, but history suggests they aren't original enough to do anything Hitler's willing executioners, or Pol Pot's highland Cambodians weren't also ready to do.
This article illustrates the absolute depravity (yes, even, or perhaps particularly [depending on your reading of scripture] religious depravity) of the Tea Party set. Allow me and like-minded brethren the right to wallow in the absolute inanity of people 'packing' in the house of Jesus (Jesus, of all people! I'm not particularly religious, but isn't THAT a bellweather of sorts). I get where you are coming from, but in the present case, must defer:
These folks are fvcked up, period. Nothing illustrates it as well as this simple observance: that they seek the right to take their peacemakers into a house of peace. Likelihood that every Tea Partier's original hero, Wyatt Earp, would have thought similarly? Zero. They checked their arms at the door, like all normal people would.
Just shows the inanity of the whole 'house of worship' thing.
I don't take churches, etc. seriously. I think it is symbolic of how meaningless and destructive it all is.
Time to stop looking back to superheroes and start thinking for ourselves.
As i've been saying...The apocalypse is beginning to get on my nerves!
ps. Glenn Beck says he is getting advice from God. Everything is right on schedule.
Guns are tools of death. Bringing them into church only reinforces the hypocrisy of religions, which had the theory of love and peace for others on this earth.
The mythical Christ may have had a few angry words for those dimwits in Louisiana.
INSPIRED GREEK VERSION
"Do not think that I have come to bring harmony,
togetherness and peaceful coexistence to the world.
Not have I come to bring peace, but a sharp double-
edged instrument that cuts open things, and divides
and separates good from bad things.
I have come therefore to separate a man from the
father of his, and a daughter from the mother of hers,
and a groom from the mother in law of his, and the
real enemies of a man shall be that family of his."
In the ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, we are told to be a pacifist and that the devil controls all governments and all the deadly force on earth.
And so, which is the better of two evil, to allow our satanic government to have guns, or to allow everyone to always carry a gun?