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01.04.10 - 8:35 PM
Unconscionability, Thy Name Is Bank of America
Following the lead of Ann Minch, who launched a "debtors' revolt" via YouTube last fall, California attorney Ben Pavone has told Bank of America he refuses to pay off his credit card debt until the bank lowers his interest rate - and if they don't, he'll sue. Angry about his rising interest rate and falling credit line, he offers the novel idea that banks have "some kind of obligation to not totally extort the public."
"I am anxious to point out (in court) that you 'had' to cut my credit limit at the same time you were borrowing billions from the federal government and paid your executive bonuses in full."
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It's about time!
I'm bad with names but it's about time we aligned with the "founding father" who was a socialist and populist and warned about the scenario of our modern society if we had a private national banking system -- he was joined with Jefferson for a time-- James Madison or Monroe I forget which one-- and then Pres. Washington sided with Hamilton and we all have lived happily ever after.
The saga of these two people needs to go viral; if just to point out that the credit card companies are legalized loan sharks.
I love the signs in that pic. Tell me again why we're so afraid in this country to be democratic socialists and have a country that works for all the people.
Because, samalabear, most folks (ESPECIALLY the poorer people who Dem. Soc. would best represent), are STILL ignorant of what TRUE Democratic Socialism actually STANDS FOR! Hopefully, many will click, paste this link, LEARN why We The People NEED a Democratic Socialist government, and then spread the word.
I am a proud D.S. supporter! EQUALITY FOR ALL!!!
http://www.dsausa.org/pdf/widemsoc.pdf
He lives the dream. (Although we already got rid of our BOA card).
Joe
can you spell CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT?
Why not? I had a 35k zero balance credit line at Citi closed after 20 years of good standing. AmEx has raised my rate to 27%. WTF?? Where are you Obama? What the hell was your meeting with the CC companies all about a few months ago? The expletives keep rolling around my head. CLASS ACTION SUIT. Its time.
Our National Security is a job, health care, schools for our kids, housing and enough to eat everyday.
Their National Security is the Afghanistan War, the Iraq War, the Pakistan War, The Fourth Fleet that threatens the Americas, 45,000 dead Americans each year from lack of proper health care, upwards of 20% of Americans unable to secure work, thousands upon thousands of people losing their homes to foreclosure by the banks that their government bailed out and saved from bankruptcy, high priced food that lacks proper inspection, over priced drugs for the elderly, lack of money for our schools and money lending usury.
Which Side Are You On?
What I've been seeing among my family, friends, and acquaintences in regard to the credit card rip offs is FEAR. So many have become so dependent on those cards to maintain their lifestyle, especially now, and they dare not complain, and are even afraid to talk about it out of fear the card will be cancelled and they'll find themselves falling into that yawning pit of homelessness or poverty. So they meekly pay the piper.
It amazes me how complacent we've been for how long? I can't even remember when my savings stopped making more than a few dollars a year, and you couldn't invest in a CD with less than 10K. With Reagan? I'd thought it was because of a weakening economy and was willing to be a good citizen and do without for a time. But somewhere along the way I accepted the status quo. I woke up when the mega bonuses began to be made public, and became very angry with the bailouts, and am seeing red now over the whole banking situation.
I agree that it's time for a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. I'd love to sue for all that back interest I never got, with interest.
Are you kidding me??
So Ben is into BOA for more than 30K, and that is the bank's fault?
After borrowing that much money, he finds himself "squeezed for cash" and the evil corporation is at fault for refusing to let him dig his hole any deeper?
Doesn't this beg the question why Ben doesn't just find some other lender to borrow from at his preferred 10.99%?
Why on earth is BOA or anyone else for that matter obligated to lend Ben as much money as he likes at whatever rate he deems fair? What am I missing here?
What you're missing is that we as a country BAILED out BOA and dozens of other banks with OUR money after THEY ran themselves into the ground with their greed and stupidity. Now that they have given themselves their bonuses for scaring people enough to NOT let the "free market" work, they have since lowered credit limits and shot the interest rates sky high as a "thank you" for the rest of us.
Secondly, BOA has been one of the slimiest organizations in a field of total scum for DECADES, and no one has called them one it. These scum bags OWE US. For them to continually screw people when they really contribute NOTHING to society as a whole is just plain wrong.
I hope this guy wins and wins big. You do know that credit card interest rates are higher than what the mafia used to charge, right? And THAT was illegal, but this is just business as usual? To hell with BOA. I think the entire industry should be nationalized and NO GD banker should get more than 10 times what the lowest paid employee gets. What we have now is nothing but greed personified, and it shouldn't be rewarded with bonuses but with a noose.
Point taken on the bailout. I agree with you completely that it was bullshit.
And BOA may in fact be incredibly slimy. Where I differ with you is the thought that they contribute NOTHING. It is hard to get around the fact that in Ben's case they contributed 30K, which he did not have to borrow. Ben entered into a contract. Even if we all were to agree that the terms of that contract sucked, I don't think we can absolve Ben of the responsibility for due diligence on his part.
What I fully support is the decision not to do business with BOA or anyone else if their terms, standards, ethics, etc. are not congruent with my own. But it seems a little disingenuous to me to get into bed and then complain about the accommodations.
My point is that arguments about the insanity of the tax-payer funded bailout can lose credibility when they become entwined with letting someone off the hook for the consequences of their own behavior.
Contracts are broken all the time. Sometimes renegotiated, some not. That's why we have lawyers. Ben is a lawyer.
True, and I support him using the threat of litigation to pressure BOA to renegotiate. Just a business tactic. But it doesn't make him a hero.
Well said WJM, Contrarian, seems to have missed the news where the taxpayers, like ourselves and Ben gave them Trillions of Dollars.
Where did you get the 30K figure from??? Just curious. If he owes that much, you have a point; but the banks still shouldn't allowed to have such high interest rates. 30K isn't that much nowadays. The poor guy might have had to borrow some coin to get his practice running after borrowing 110K+ in Student Loans, which nobody pays back that I know of.
All the more power the people who can live outside the credit world; Willing to take on BOA even if they will ruin their credit. Because credit in fact is just something in our heads; It's not an actual asset, like say, property or gold, etc.. Therefore, those who are willing to ditch that facet of American life should do fairly well, if they can generate a living outside of credit.
If you haven't noticed, most Americans are in debt. Some by living outside their means, others because they went to school or got ill.
What kind of nut are you sticking up for BOA?
"The poor guy might have had to borrow some coin to get his practice running after borrowing 110K+ in Student Loans, which nobody pays back that I know of."
Excuse me? Perhaps YOU did not repay YOUR student loans, but I certainly DID repay MINE and it took several years. I guess that makes me a chump and you an astute businessman.
Whether I am a nut or not might be in doubt. What is not is that I have no dog in this hunt. I am not pro-BOA, but I am not pro-Ben either.
The implication in your final statement is that BOA's position must by definition be wrong. Let's forget about the participants and debate the merits of the case.
To answer your question, the 30K comes from the information in the article. BOA lowered Ben's limit to $30400, "just above" his balance, thus it seems fair to conclude his balance is right at 30K.
Interesting that you are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, referring to him as the "poor guy," speculating on the probable good reasons for the balance, and minimizing it as not "that much."
I'm not as willing as you are to buy this guy's story. In fact, I'm going to argue that if the debt had been incurred to save his ailing granny or fund his local inner-city coop, he'd have been very likely to have highlighted this fact in order to frame himself more sympathetically.
Until evidence suggests otherwise, I'll assume he is 30K in the hole for simple reason that he spends more than he makes. Not the greatest sin in the world, to be sure, but it is relevant.
My point is that, as long as he is informed on the front end and has to take an affirmative action on his part to enter into the agreement with BOA, the terms and the rates are between the two of them.
I don't see where BOA is the villain here. Let's clarify: don't tell me how they are the villain by definition because they are BOA. Don't tell me they are the villain because they have done other bad things. They may have, but let's not give Ben a free pass. This issue stands or falls on its own merits.
Your thoughts?
I have a credit score of over 800 and am in the top 1% in the country and so I reported to the fraud department of BOA that someone used $31,500 of my Mastercard credit as my credit limit was just cut in half from 62k to $31,500.00. I had no warning at all, so I thought this must be something for the BOA fraud department; especially since they just sent me a letter telling me how much they appreciated my business and I was a " valued customer". The lady at BOA said BOA just arbitrarily cut my credit line in half without telling me and when I asked for some explanation, they told me and I swear this is the truth, "you never use this much credit so we feel you do not need it" and when I mentioned I thought this showed a high degree of fiduciary responsibility they had no answer. Bank of America started out as The Bank of Italy and now they need to be called the Bank of the Mafia. I am in the process of opening an account in a local bank.
Did BOA raise the interest rate on purchases made after a future date? If so, all he has to do is make no further charges and then roll up his credit card about the size of a suppository and return it to them with the appropriate instruction.
If they're trying to make the hijack rate retroactive to his prior balance, that should be gounds for a class action suit under various concepts including estoppel. He might also reach out for a good offshore hacker to get in and burn the bastards down. Hellooo, Oslo!
Discover pays me an annual rebate for purchases made with their card. They also jacked up the interest rate on my card but I'm fortunate enough to be able to pay the bill in full each month. No fees, no interest. They probably hate me. The feeling is mutual.
Ben had better get his s*it together. 30k on a credit card?
If it were someone else other than a lawyer i would feel some compassion.
Sorry Ben, it's time to pay the piper.
"If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time." - Simon Johnson
You can read the article at.... http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice. It is a no-bull article.