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11.12.09 - 10:53 PM
The One Left Broken, Beaten Down, and Hungry
A judge has ruled that a church in Phoenix, where homelessness is on the rise, cannot feed the homeless. Crossroads United Methodist Church lost a court battle that began after neighbors complained about its weekly pancake breakfast and the hungry riff-raff turning up for it. Zoning, says the court. Compassion, says the minister.
For actions to help the homeless nationwide, go here."Are we just discriminating against people who are poor and who don't have homes because we don't like what we feel when we see them?" says Rev. Dottie Escobedo-Frank. "My, my, my! What have we come to? Where's the love?"
58 Comments so far
Show AllWhere I work all left-over food is thrown away. It is policy that no one eats this food or they could be fired. Weird huh?
Theists whether of the Judeo/Christian tradition or other major religions aren't necessarily the bad guys nor are atheists. We need to avoid oversimplifying on these really crucial issues. People who are atheists are those who simply accept God doesn't exists on faith, and theists simply accept on faith that God does exists.
We should let it go at that. An atheist is just the flip side of a theist. Either can be completely decent and moral. Atheists and theists who are progressive should stand together no matter what. The other side has enough advantages without us helping them out.
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Gee how wonderful this is, another preview.
When a Christian church tries to do something so basically good as this and in the social gospel tradition of Martin Luther King Jr, Arch Bishop Tutu, and so many others reflecting the true spirit of the Christ, the prince of peace, it's amazing that some "Christians" take "offense." I've got your "offense." Get off your damn classist worthless high horse and look at how terrible an injustice this and so much poverty, racism, and militarism is for this country and all others.
Dr King put it so aptly, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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When a Christian church tries to do something so basically good as this and in the social gospel tradition of Martin Luther King Jr, Arch Bishop Tutu, and so many others reflecting the true spirit of the Christ, the prince of peace, it's amazing that some "Christians" take "offense." I've got your "offense." Get off your damn classist worthless high horse and look at how terrible an injustice this and so much poverty, racism, and militarism is for this country and all others.
Dr King put it so aptly, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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"go be homeless somewhere else"
I'd be very leery of taking charity from christians. Next thing you know they're burning you for heresy, hanging you for witchcraft, bombing you because you're muslim, torturing you to name your heretic homeless neighbors, forcing women to give birth to babies they hate, and all kinds of other compassionate things the Christ--tards are historically known for.
(Be doubly careful if you're native American--Christianity justified your extermination in what is now the U.S. way back in the Massachusetts Bay Colony)
Beware of rationalist humanist atheists. These people who promise you liberation and are sooo compassionate towards your suffering are the same ones who championed the spread of Darwinism far beyond the biological theory of existence originally intended by its author.
The Social Darwinists begat Marxist dialectism, the Nietsche ubermensch, and eugenics movements, (all of which were intimately involved in the perfecting of the social evolution of mankind) which begat such enlightened leaders as Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Mussoulini, Franco, Hitler, and Hideki Tojo who in the 20th Century were responsible for the equal-opportunity genocide resulting in the collective death of hundreds of millions of otherwise innocent human beings all in the name of their "faiths".
Poet
Atheistic humanists have their own 'religion,' meaning set of beliefs. They believe that human ego can solve the problems created by--you guessed it--human ego. Also, that there is no such thing as good or evil, but that both are relative. Human nature and human potential is what they worship. Human creation itself was an accident, devoid of any 'guiding intelligence,' and without any inherent purpose. Did I miss anything?
Yes, you missed the part where religious believers believe that there is good and evil, as long as it is they who get to determine what is good and evil; yes, there is good and evil, as long as they get to choose whether they want to follow those rules.
An imaginary friend, or a whole group of imaginary friends, is what religious believer worship. Humans are the slaves of destiny of that imaginary friend.
Did I miss anything?
Yes that religion and anti-religion are on the same level. My post was not a justification for organized religion, but that seemed to elude you.
I'm not too strong on Marxist theory, butI do know dialectism is older than Social Darwinism, by maybe a century.
I also believe that rational humanist atheists are often not as good as they think they are. Their detachment can lead to blindness - this I concluded from reading Goethe's Faust, a wonderful book about the ruinous effects of over-intellectualized humanism. I was recently surprised to learn that the champion for creationism, William Jennings Bryan, had a kinder social policy toward the poor than some of the champions of evolution, who tended toward a eugenics position. Kindness and compassion are never out of style, no matter what the philosophical underpinning.
However I must say your list is very skewed! You completely leave out inspiring progressive figures and chilling religious fanatics and their often genocidal campaigns.
Joe
Joe notes:
"However I must say your list is very skewed! You completely leave out inspiring progressive figures and chilling religious fanatics and their often genocidal campaigns."
*******************
Precisly my point Joe, Twaddle made a blanket accusation of ALL Christians based on thw actions of SOME who self-identified with that label. Anybody can play that game--it is known variously as stereotyping or bigotry.
Most who criticize Marxism have little or no idea about what it actually is. They confuse it with totalitarianism which is understandable given how many so called communists were totalitarians of the worst sort.
Marxismn is also the inspiration which led to the social democracies of Western Europe as well as the Bolivarian Revolution in Latin America and has created and is creating a standard of living and quality of life greater than the other systems being used previously.
Besides genocidal Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox behavior, Christianity was also the inspiration behind the anti-slavery abolitionists, non-violent civil rights protests, and conscientious objection to military service or pledging aliegence to the flag.
Poet
Aha! I get your point.
Joe
Spend ALL the Bush/Obama Bernankster's Wall Street-walker bailout repayments AND BONUSES on the homeless, instead!
We know who the REAL riff raff in this story is.
Make sure you read the link that goes to CrossRoads and read more of what this pastor says. This is going up on appeal and I wish there was something that could be done to support this one church and this effort. Zoning be damned!
A lot of those poor folks weren't always poor. But they failed to follow the progressive media and understand what was going to happen.
The progressive media explained exactly what was going on in the republican usa in 2002/2003. None of it was good for the dollar so I bought gold at about $300/oz.
In early 2008 the progressive media began forecasting a cosmetic win for the democrats with no change in any of the major rackets. Not good for the dollar so I bought more gold at about $600 (paid for with profits from my 2003 purchases).
Gold is now about $1100/oz. and I would like to express my appreciation to the progressive community for its accurate insights which have done more than any other element in our society to make my american dream come true.
By the way, my next post will be from Copenhagen since I can now afford to live in a civilized society.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
(Disclosure: 1) Although I did think about it, I couldn't actually bring myself to to bet against my country. Though I was certain I'd win the bet, it just felt too damned evil. 2) I'm not really moving to Copenhagen - that's just a recurrent selfish fantasy.)
Do you think the poor and the hungry are just going to disappear? Do you think that if you wait long enough the city will just pick up their dead bodies off the streets and that will be the end of it? I don’t think so! No, they will survive …and multiply and then they will prey on those in their paths. It ain’t gonna’ be pretty.
For those of you taking pot-shots at "Christians" please go reread Abby's blurb. It's not the Christians who are the problem, it's the amoral neighborhood in which they live.
The Methodists are trying to do a good Christian deed and the part of the world in which they live is making them pay a price to do such.
Scripture and history teaches us that Christians who "walk the walk" (as opposed to those who just "talk the talk") usually get persecuted. As the saying goes "no good deed goes unpunished".
What will be interesting is to see just how much more these Methodists prize their Christianity than the corporate tax-exempt status of their 501(3)(c) denomination and/or congregation.
Poet
That "amoral" neighbourhood that they live in is almost certainly mostly Christian: given that most Americans say that they are Christian, and that this is especially so in states such as Arizona.
Poet, in this instance you are 100% correct. It is easy to get off on a tangent though as the commentary against "Christians" seemingly got started by assuming, probably correctly, that those doing the complaining also identify as being "Christians" themselves, though not necessarily members of this particular church.
Agreed, Poet. It is the amoral neighborhood. Turquoise swimming pools in every grassy yard in the desert. Golf courses. Rambling houses with AC in every room. Mexican maids and gardeners keeping things glassy clean and trimmed, underpaid and threatened with deportation if they complain.
The pancake eaters would ruin the decor.
Joe
You're so right, Poet. There are Christians, and then there are christians. Unfortunately, one bad apple spoils the barrel, and human nature being what it is, instead of getting rid of the one bad apple, we tend to trash the whole barrel.
As a victim of right wing christian gang stalking torutre for three years, its hard for me to believe that there are ministers in this country that care about people, and are opposed to war.
Ministers and evangelicals dont verbally talk about the evils of war onn there TV programs.
So , they want you to believe that they walk in Jesus's foot steps. Remeber him , the prince of peace.
This minister is using his church to disturb people who live around him and dont attend his Sunday Service.
He needs to have a predetermind location to take these homeless food.
I dont trust the church or christians anymore, you wouldn't either if you knew what they were doing in the name of God.
And I am very tired of Christians complaining that they are being victimized , they deserve it, these are mean , judgemental, people who want to shove thier beliefs down peoples throats, because they think they are so pure , and righteous.
HEY , THIS IS AMERICA, I DONT HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THE SAME THINGS CHRISTIANS DO, AND CHRISTIANS ARE DEFINELTY NO BETTER A CLASS OF HUMANS THAN ANYONE ELSE.
They need to stop supporting gang stalking and community vigilante groups.
Time we brought the word Yuppie back. Guess they haven't all just disappeared. "Don't want to mess up the neighborhood".
This is why whenever I read about another shooter in the U.S. I just nod.
AS YE SOW, SO SHALL YE REAP.
If you are a wealthy american living in fear I say you earned it. There is always enough money to fight wars and bail out banks but in the U.S. citizens sleep in the streets for lack of jobs and housing.
Remember this when the bell tolls for thee and thine. Your suffering is just and right.
Part of me can't believe there's a law that would force a ban on feeding the poor... but another part of me knows what kind of world we're living in and accepts these orwellian practices as normal. How much do judges make a year?
Karma is coming...
So much for freedom of religion
Much of America's Christianity is really about GOD's KINGDOM ON EARTH....WITH ME OWNING my own CHRIST-LOVING HOME with a white fence , a garage, 2 cars, my very important vacation in the bahamas which i DESERVE so much for being SUCH a PATRIOTIC CHRISTIAN AMERICAN that ensures MY neighborhood is SAFE and SECURE from these LOWLIFES who don't want to WORK and pick themselves up by the bootstraps and pay their bills like I DO!!
it's THEIR fault that GOD DOESN'T LIKE THEM and shows it by not BLESSING them the way HE LOVES ME and BLESSED ME. These LOSERS will NEVER enter the Gates of Heaven ..they will just BURN IN HELL, unlike me where Jesus awaits me with bigger Houses and will make all my WRINKLES disappear and I'll be 25 years old Forever".
They are free to worship as they please.
Just not DO anything with their teaching.
PERFECTLY SUMMED UP.
for much of america's christianity .. that seems to be the definition of it. it's all about RITUAL without the SOUL.
SHOW that "i've been saved by my personal Lord and Savior"..
ONLY it's not necessary to FOLLOW what the Lord and Saviour Asked : actually "give up your belongings and follow me".
heck - to americans - it doesn't even get THAT far ....for most , it's ALREADY TOO MUCH to give up even a FeW precious belongings....ESPECIALLY if it meant to give to the poor.
gotta be sure "it goes to the RUGGED INDIVIDUAL ..and the RESPONSIBLE AMERICANS ONLY - those with a JOB that can PAY the RENT or buy a HOUSE LIKE ME...those others are poor because GOD DOESN"T LIKE THEM".
Tell the judge to stuff it. You are either a Christian or you are not. Christianiy DEMANDS civil disobedience when immoral orders are given.
I dunno. Seems to me x-tardity demands assisting the powers that be oppress anyone different. They hanged my eighth great grandmother, Susannah North Martin, as a witch, and they haven't improved much. Name a revolution with christ-tard roots.
But MY eighth great grandmother SAW Goody Martin in the woods, standing as if entranced before a great black cat! And that cat did hiss and screech, and it seemed to my eighth great grandmother that Goody Martin nodded and bowed as if it were WORDS that she could comprehend-- verily, the speech of Hell!
Or she would've seen all that, had she not been shoveling shit somewhere in the hinterlands of Naples, Italy.
· Yr Obd't Servant
absolutely.
even from those of us that are not necessarily enamored of religion - can recognize this ...in fact that is the veyr CLAIM of these christian "american patriots" who love to say the USA is "built in christianity" and wish it to be a theocracy
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO doing the things that jesus christ taught :
NOT LEAST of which he reiterated dozens of times (as opposed to a mere ONE RESPONSE about "gays") :
"what you do unto these, the LEAST of my children, you do unto me"
related to ""truly i say to you... it will be easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven"...
these "american christians" that rail against the poor and helping them are the WORST of the lot of so-called , self-styled "christians"...justifying their displeasure with claims about "law", about "patriotism", about "american self-responsibility"....in other words - REDUCING Jesus Christs' ENTIRE life and teaching INTO A MERE AMERICAN-ISM....and making Jesus Christ SERVE their notions of "americanISM"....
they hardly recall that in world war 2 - plenty of christians in europe - at risk to themselves hid and tried to help those that Hitler wanted to kill..and when THEY were caught - they gave up their own lives and "security" for the sake of who , in their times and circumstances had BECOME
"THESE - the LEAST of MY children" -- whether they were the jews, or gypsies , or immigrants or others the nazis deemed undesirable....
and in the USA - these self-righteous AMERICAN "christians" ...emphasis on their notion of being "american" - deem the poor and down and out as "undesirables"
JUST as the NAZIS behaved.
so what is the difference between these so-called "christians in america" that look down upon the poor or those fallen in life who need help ?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Religion = Money Laundering/Exclusion/Organized Crime & War
Just refuse to support it.
"these "american christians" that rail against the poor and helping them are the WORST of the lot of so-called , self-styled "christians"...justifying their displeasure with claims about "law", about "patriotism", about "american self-responsibility"....in other words - REDUCING Jesus Christs' ENTIRE life and teaching INTO A MERE AMERICAN-ISM....and making Jesus Christ SERVE their notions of "americanISM"...."
They are getting around these little technicalities. The supply side "Christians" will always find some biblical passage that will legitimize their greed. And if they can't, well then by golly, they will just rewrite the bible!
Exactly! This is where civil disobedience will pay off in spades. Let the cops come and forcibly keep the church from feeding people.....make sure there are cameras rolling.
We have a savage nation. It's the end result of enshrining private property over all else.
-TIA
Yes. Property has far more rights than human beings do in this country.
And the rights of corporations trump all else.
Exactly! A good example is our foreign policy with China which values copyright over human rights. Do what you like to your people but don't you dare bootleg a DVD!!!
This article is another nail in the coffin that the US is a Christian nation. Not to mention how many "judges" we have.
I'm starting to suspect that my personal property rights are becoming worth less every day. If I were a billionaire or a corporation, or a Municipality, I would agree.
But Jesus Christ, a law against feeding people who are hungry? What next?
The US government should be providing food, housing, and jobs for everyone that is currently homeless. No one should have to rely on private charity. And of course, Obama's right-wing regime will do nothing to help them.
Ya know, I've come back to this statement a dozen times at least, trying to decide WHAT, if anything to say. On one hand, I abhor the concept of making citizens depend upon the government, but on the other hand, I'd argue that the government was at least partially to blame for a lot of this mess, thus should be part of the solution. Do you envision something along the lines of the old CCC?
I see nothing wrong with private charity, in concept. I've had to sit through a half hour long sermon in order to get a bowl of stew and a fifty cent room in my early days. That of course was my choice, since I was hitch-hiking around the country, working day labor jobs, for want of 'experience', not out of necessity. I always had a family safety net to fall back on had I needed to. Private charity of course, should be of a temporary nature, and the solution to hunger and homelessness should not.
I guess what I fear most about your proposal is that when one is "dependant" upon the government for survival, one is less likely to feel that he/she "owns" that same government.
You might want to look into ideas like this.
http://www.newdeal20.org/?p=6239
Agreed.
Let the fortunate homeowners feed the hungry and shelter the homeless.
The Church and its Pastor lady - should put a BIG SIGN at the entrance of the Church for all in the neighborhood to see:
in TWO parts:
1) "WHATSOEVER YOU DO TO THESE , THE LEAST OF MY CHILDREN, YOU DO UNTO ME"..JESUS CHRIST
2) "SEE THE RICH ONE GIVE ALMS...AND SEE THE POOR WIDOW GIVE 2 SMALL COINS..I TELL YOU...THE RICH HAS GIVEN OUT OF HIS ABUNDANCE...BUT THE POOR WIDOW HAS GIVEN MORE ...FOR SHE GAVE EVERYTHING SHE HAD TO LIVE ON"...JESUS CHRIST.
it should all be so BIG that no one driving a car from a mile away can miss it. ..and they should put it in YouTube and on Twitter andeverywhere in the world
to SHOW
"THIS IS WHAT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAS COME DOWN TO....the UNCHRISTLIKE *christian* country".
then see the "courts" and "law" do something about "AMERICA THE CHRISTIAN COUNTRY" and "freedom of religion"...
when it comes to a church wishing to do what the "LORD JESUS CHRIST" told everyone.
"EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS THAT JESUS CHRIST TAUGHT LOVE, KINDNESS AND PEACE AND GENEROSITY.....EXCEPT CHRISTIANS"...
MAHATMA GANDHI
"I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA...THEY ARE SO ........*UNCHRISTLIKE*".
MAHATMA GANDHI
"WHATSOEVER YOU DO TO THESE , THE LEAST OF MY CHILDREN, YOU DO UNTO ME"..JC
that's the one that popped into my head too!
I left the church years ago when they wouldn't support my CO application.
but the teachings linger.
Amen!
Hi AGG, I humbly echo yo amen, tell it like it is TEDDY, The Lo'd here now? Why he would bust out cryin'.
Pheonix, may it be reduced to ashes, Arizona, are awful, meanhearted states of mind. Racist. Arpaio the creep jailer, mccain, these ain't anomolies-they are representative of the inbred rednecks who call it home.
Az tried to imprison me for fightin in a homeless camp in 1984. Came close. Had to change the plaintiffs perspective. From jail. Avec amour.....!
You can get gas in Az, and say, Joe, gimme ten on #7, that Remington Pump, copy a Men at Play, box a buckshot and a 1/2 gallon a JD. They get around "waiting periods," in 50 different ways.
Why do men like to feel big guns off? They kill; Dr. Frued? Dr. Frued?
the amazing thing about americans of these nature : many of them likely "christians" - who dislike the poor being served "in my neighborhood" is that
they like to keep "my neighborhood" free of disturbing things such as REMINDERS of the poverty around them ..for being about people who they judge as "irresponsible" or "unamerican"...
and YET THEIR OWN COUNTRY INVADES so MANY neighborhoods around the world and CAUSeS SO MUCH disarray, IMPOVERISHMENT, MASS DEATH and DESTRUCTION. and they even think it is about being a "christian country bringing the Lord's freedom"....
A couple of days ago I sent a list of about 20 biblical prohibitions against usury to my credit card company after they called me a "valued customer" and raised my rate to 21.99%. There are numerous exhorations in the bible to take care of the poor. Not to speak of the camel and the eye of the needle. But the rich of any religion can ignore anything that stands in the way of their own self-satisfaction and gain. They will not willingly give up their manicured illusions to let in people who are disturbing, or their favorite word "inappropriate".
Phoenix AZ has a particularly sterile feel about it.
Joe
"We can appeal to the Board of Adjustment,"
I would hope that the church would continue, irrespective of any "appeal". The "judge" mentioned in the first sentence of this article is obviously just a municipal worker with little, if any real knowledge of law. Humanitarian aid trumps Napoleonic code laws each and every time. No jury would ever agree that 'zoning' ordinances prohibit humanitarian efforts. Not in MY country.
Have you taken a good hard look at your country lately?
I guess, Palm Beach and Jupiter, Florida, not to mention the Hamptons in New york, aren't in your country.
The Kosher Nostra has some fascinating zoning laws...
Yeah, I know....... But the Pandora's Box being opened WILL come back to bite em... As the article pointed out, what about fund raisers, Easter breakfasts etc... I REALLY don't see this being upheld by any jury in the US though, IF they can get it to a jury to begin with....