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TechnoratiArmy Psychiatrist Shoots 12 Dead at US Army Base, In Stable Condition
Contrary to earlier reports, the suspected shooter at Fort Hood, Army Major Malik Nidal Hasan, 39, is alive and in stable condition. Hasan was a psychiatrist specializing in traumatic stress syndrome who was said to be unhappy about possibly being deployed to Iraq.
According to the records, Hasan completed a residency in psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C. in 2007 and additional training in disaster and preventive psychiatry at Uniformed Services University Of the Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School of Medicine, in Bethesda, Md..
At least 12 people were killed and 31 wounded in the shooting at Fort Hood Army Base near Killeen, Texas, when at least one gunmen opened fire on soldiers who were making their final deployment preparations. Fort Hood, located near the town of Killeen, is home to about 40,000 US troops.
For updates, go here.
120 Comments so far
Show AllI don't condone what this man did at all. He was mentally ill and only shook the beehive of Islamophobia with his terrible actions. But compare his actions to that of the United States military since 2001 alone, in this year alone. Oh, and let's not talk of Israel.
Gee Whillikurz... I can't think of a better place for a good ol' fashioned bang-bang shoot-em up GUN BATTLE than just down the road from Waco and Crawford Texas...
YO TEXANS...
TRY THIS ONE ON FOR SIZE!!!
--->>> NO MESSIN' WITH MUSLIMS!!! <<<----
Wow! This incident really got everyone's attention. Major Hasan touched all the hot buttons: U.S. foreign policy, gun violence, religion, terrorism.
I think the most important problem Hasan has forced us to think harder about is how Muslims and non-Muslims should behave toward each other.
Organized religion is like language. We're born to speak, but what language(s) we speak depends on what language(s) we're taught, or in some instances create. We're born with religious instincts, but how those develop in us depends on our life experiences, especially the religious influences we experience, or in some instances create.
The founders of our nation, which includes persons around at the beginning, at the time the 14th Amendment was passed, and also during the legal evolution of church-state separation, had a solution to the problem that I believe is unequaled, at least in theory, anywhere else.
Few countries have freedom of religion, protected by church-state separation, like we do. It has allowed enormous proliferation of religious belief in the U.S. But freedom of religion isn't justified, as the conservatives think, because religious belief, or religion in general, is good. Religious beliefs, organized or not, can be good or bad, but that's not for the government to judge.
So, while Islam is as foreign to my own innate religiosity as fundamentalist Christianity, I think we must, as a nation, renew our vow to tolerate religious beliefs, protect the right to reject religious beliefs and refuse to participate in religious practices, and keep the law free of religious dictates.
Our national mettle in this regard has been tested many times, in many ways. Major Hasan has just given us a new test. We'll fail it if we forsake our national resolve with regard the First Amendment.
To those of you that made thoughtful and responsible comments about this tragedy, those that expressed their sorrow and regret for these dead kids, those that put the blame where it belongs...the ones that started this and those that continue it, you are why I stay around CD. This was mentioned by more than one person below, the difference in CD and other places....how the people on CD are not the lunatics and idiots you find at HuffPo or DK for that matter. And I thank you for it.
For the few that made inane, stupid, igmorant comments. The few that spit on these dead kids....thankfully, there are just a few of you. And when you look in the mirror tomorrow, you'll be looking at nothing much and certainly nothing worthy of the spit of one of these dead kids. You define your bigotry every time you post.
matthew loughran
for starters henry 8 you are an a hole. second this shooting i just an example of what the US and its TWO occupations are about racism and militarism. plaid and simple. martin luther king saw the same thing 40 years ago with vietnam and its the same today. too bad if you don't like it henry 8 ahole.
third i hope this does not turn into a witch hunt against muslims because i will support muslisms against the racism of the damn USA.
i know and have known many muslims and they are great people.
"Dead kids"? How about dead participants in war crimes and crimes against humanity?
I wonder how President Obama can keep a straight face as he condemns this Fort Hood attack, while continuing to authorize drone attacks that kill dozens of Pakistani and Afghani civilians every day.
Seventhson
Excellent observation. Americans will mourn the killing of their own while rarely, if ever, expressing sorrow over the deaths of innocent people in third world countries that have been caused by the American military. Out of sight, out of mind.
Oct. 2, 2006, Nickel Mines, PA: Deranged gunman Charles Roberts entered a one room Amish schoolhouse and shot 10 little girls. Five died. Roberts then killed himself.
The Wikipedia article on this incident includes the following report of the Amish community's response:
<<<< A Roberts family spokesman said an Amish neighbor comforted the Roberts family hours after the shooting and extended forgiveness to them. Amish community members visited and comforted Roberts' widow, parents, and parents-in-law. One Amish man held Roberts' sobbing father in his arms, reportedly for as long as an hour, to comfort him. The Amish have also set up a charitable fund for the family of the shooter. About 30 members of the Amish community attended Roberts' funeral, and Marie Roberts, the widow of the killer, was one of the few outsiders invited to the funeral of one of the victims. Marie Roberts wrote an open letter to her Amish neighbors thanking them for their forgiveness, grace, and mercy. She wrote, "Your love for our family has helped to provide the healing we so desperately need. Gifts you've given have touched our hearts in a way no words can describe. Your compassion has reached beyond our family, beyond our community, and is changing our world, and for this we sincerely thank you." >>>>
For the past three years I have often returned to this story with thanksgiving (and a lump in my throat) for the peace it provides in moments of anguish.
So long as there are people like these good Amish folks to cast light in this world, despair is not an option.
Corruption and violence is rampant worldwide, folks, and labels are used quite effectively to disguise and slander true motives. The worst of human nature--meaning human ignorance--is being expressed in the absence of Divine Purpose, which means to live holistically within awareness and compassion. For this to occur, ego transcendence must take place on the individual level. Modern psychology studies man in his 'undeveloped' state, and does not know about or care about full actualization; thus, it calls the neurotic and psychotic (which is also 'evil') normal, completely ignoring (essentially because of lack of understanding) authentic human potential beyond personality. This generally means that so-called mental health professionals are just as screwed up--perhaps even more so--than their patients.
Texas alone can do this to people, imagine what living in a concentration of contract killers INSIDE TEXAS can do to someone. I'm surprised these shootings don't happen more often.
Of course, if Obama had done what he promised during his lying campaign (bring the troops home) instead of extending troops' deployments, this wouldn't have happened. I can hear the Obamabots saying "how can you pin this on Obama?" I can and I will, this is entirely his fault.
The military is an abominable enterprise to begin with. I can't tolerate people volunteering to join it, basically offering themselves to mass murder innocent civilians across the globe. They have nothing but contempt for human life as this shooting proves it.
If you believe the military is just a group of highly trained killers with no feelings then you definitely have never been around military personnel. Most military members have families and care deeply about their country and fellow Americans. As a former member of the military our commitment is to protect the US. If you believe the military is being used improperly take to your President and Congressional representatives. The military only does what the civilian leadership of this country demands. I can guarantee that most military folks have a much higher regard for lives that the average individual.
Protect the US against whom? If most military folks had a much higher regard for lives that (sic) the average individual like you say, they wouldn't volunteer to kill innocent civilian overseas for oil and corporate profit. Spare us the "It's A Wonderful Life" bullshit.
Uncle Charlie
Well said. Perhaps many of these fine, super patriotic people in the military today took too much to heart Tennyson's observation:
"Into the valley of death rode the six hundred."
What I still find amazing after all these years is that after being drafted and ending up in the Vietnam these apparently naive and gullible soldiers of today join the military willingly because, in their estimation, they are fighting for some ambiguous noble cause. One would have thought that with the information available on the Internet today these seemingly intelligent military personnel would have figured out that they were lied to by their government and the military just as I and countless others were lied to those many years ago.
One has to wonder if these idealistic fools will ever reach the epiphany that former Marine Dan Felushko reached when he deserted, justifiably, from his unit in 2003, as Robert Fantina recounts in his well written book Desertion and the American Soldier: 1776-2006, and has Felushko stating that:
"I didn't want 'Died, deluded in Iraq' written over my gravestone."
The same thing, of course, can and should apply to those soldiers who are also carrying out the occupation in Afghanistan.
Or Tennyson's other observation:
"Theirs is not to reason why; theirs is but to do and die."
Seventhson
Nicely applied quote by Tennyson. One wishes that all these robots called soldiers would see the powerful and moving documentary Sir! No Sir! in the perhaps vain hope that they might finally realize that they have a brain which might in some way stir their consciences to tell them that belonging to an organization that is unjustifiably brutalizing and terrorizing and killing people who live in third world countries is both illegal and immoral. As former Green Beret Donald Duncan observed in the film:
"I was doing it right but I wasn't doing right."
Perhaps faced with that realization the soldiers of today, who appear to be almost totally indifferent to speaking out as compared to their predecessors, will finally say NO to American militarism and imperialism.
We can hope.
What a complete ass you are.
Can you elaborate, Henry8?
Henry8 can't elaborate, which means I hit the nail right on the head. Those who can't attack the message, attack the messenger. Henry8's probably one the millions of social parasites willing to join the military in exchange for a free college education. They'll get a free college education all right, but also lose a body part in Iraq or Afghanistan or whatever war the US will be trolling for next. If they're lucky, that is. Odds are they'll lose their lives for corporate profit and US hegemony overseas, and all of that for a free, lousy college education.
Henry8 hasn't figured that out yet, or has but can't admit it.
It seems that traumatic stress syndrome is catching. Perhaps the neverending slaughter of Muslim men, women and children for Texas Oil Companies has something to do with it.
Or, he was being tortured by right wing christian militants using gang stalking cointel pro 24/7 surviellance.
He said something or did something for the new American self rightous christian stazi to destroy him psychologically, and he snapped.
Look into all mass shootings in the last 5 years, bet money all the shooters were being followed and harrassed by cointel pro gang STALKERS, slandered and tortured psychologically.
Or, he was being tortured by right wing christian militants using gang stalking cointel pro 24/7 surviellance.
He said something or did something for the new American self rightous christian stazi to destroy him psychologically, and he snapped.
Look into all mass shootings in the last 5 years, bet money all the shooters were being followed and harrassed by cointel pro gang STALKERS, slandered and tortured psychologically.
Coincidentally, I just attended a talk about Islam. It seems that Muslims cannot (at least legally under Islam) declare an offensive war, cannot kill civilians, and cannot attempt to kill any Muslim soldiers in any war. I've seen a report from Major Hasan's cousin that he was "a devout Muslim".
I'm going to call it as I see it. Major Hasan's actions fit the letter (but not the spirit) of these Islamic prohibitions. He attacked non-Muslim soldiers who were preparing to travel to Iraq or Afghanistan to wage an offensive war against Muslims.
What the Major's action does in the name of Islam is make half the world leery of all Muslims everywhere. I get the feeling that many Muslims will lose their jobs. Realistically, I expect a big uptick in anti-Muslim racial incidents.
From the little I know of Islam, Muhammad preached coexistence between his little band of followers and the powerful nearby caliphate. "Don't rock the boat!"
Islam, like Christianity if not more so, is currently beset with political corruption. Both religions are also beset with people who want to interpret Scripture in any way that keeps the powerful in charge. One of the biggest misinterpretations is about killing and war. First you figure out who you want to kill, then you figure out a way to have God bless your particular murders.
With the USA imperial stormtroopers actions the whole world is more than leery of all USA ans.
"It seems that Muslims cannot (at least legally under Islam) declare an offensive war, cannot kill civilians, and cannot attempt to kill any Muslim soldiers in any war."
Indeed, that was how Muslims felt back when Islam first came into existence. They would refuse to fight eachother. The leaders got around that with the slave Mamaluke (however they are spelled) armies.
More recently, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, and Pakistan have proven that to not be true. All four have launched offensive wars, both against Muslims and non-Muslims.
Wow! I am simply amazed at the difference in tone between the comments on CD and the comments on Breitbart: http://www.breitbart.tv/co-worker-ft-hood-gunman-made-outlandish-comments-condemning-us-foreign-policy...
I wish I were exagerating if I said that those on Breitbart are calling for a genocide of muslims; here are some examples:
"The Qu’ran is an open declaration of war against all that is non-Muslim. Given that, all Muslims should be deported. In the military, when someone makes stupid comments, as this idiot did many times, he should be put in the stockade until he gets his head on right. There are no “moderate” Muslims. If they are in the US, they are all sleepers waiting for the signal."
"Now is the time to start rounding up all Muslim trash and putting them in camps like we did with the Japanese when THEY attacked us. Islam followers have proven time and time again that they are nothing but savages who cannot function proplery in modern day times. Of course the American hating Libs will cry and whine and stand up for these peace loving, sweet people. And remember, so far not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists have been Muslim."
"Can we just outlaw islam already and get it over with. Death cults are banned in Europe. Can’t Obama do something right here for once?"
"How do Moslems stop their families in America from assimilating? They drive their cars over their own daughters. They take them outside and shoot them. This is a religion of absolute control. And they want to control the world. That is why you never hear a moslem voice asking to investigate their own people. Moslems who would lean toward moderation are living in absolute fear. The moslems pose a greater threat than any other group who ever immigrated to America. They don’t cherish American freedom or values. Unfortunately and fortunately, Americans are kind and accepting people. But the time has come for America to pull itself up by the bootstrap and pull together to get rid of this problem once and for all."
"I have no problem waterboarding him every single day of his remaining life"
And just so you don't think I'm exagerating about the "genocide" thing:
"I think most Americans have just about had enough of pretending that Islam is not a Parasite in the world. I personally think it is time to unleash our military and bring the terror that the isalm faith enjoys so much to each and every one of their countries and their doorsteps. I say let our military fight and destroy the way it is equiped and trained to do and we will eradicate this parasite from our world."
I am happy that Common Dreams is more civil AND sane than this.
I should add that this is why I like Common Dreams. There is sanity and intelligence here most of the time. I used to hang out on HuffPo and still read there, sometimes I post, but less and less. Over there you get it from the nuts on both sides, although the right wingnuts on that site are actually mild next to the vicious attacks by Obama-bots. It's amazing that these people think they're superior in intelligence, as they think their Dear Leader is, and yet wallow in the same mud pit as the worst of their counterparts.
You're a brave soul for being able to read the comments over there. I can't go near extreme right-wing sites. They're filled with hate. I'm not surprised, though, that Breitbart's site would attract this kind of ignorance. He was on Bill Maher at the beginning of this current season. He was part of a two-person panel with Cornell West, so you can get imagine. It was ugly -- a contest of who could shout down the other the loudest and Maher had absolutely no control over the situation. No information was exchanged, nothing was learned, except by Maher -- the backlash over this episode on HBO was fierce. Loyal viewers said if this is the way the show was going to go down then they would stop watching. Breitbart came across as ignorant, loud and extreme. And Cornell West, well, all I can say is that I didn't want to see him again either, although he's been on the show many times. He was on the show after this with a different panel and it was all civil and intelligent.
Mission accomplished.
Can't help but to think how convenient it all is--with the majority in the US opposed to our escalation in Muslim lands..and with that war funding supplemental coming up that Obama vowed he wouldn't resort to to fund MI ambitions. Jobs available in the military and now Obama is up there doing his bit with Bush-like pronoucements about "brave heros" and honor ad nauseaum. BTW, did the other 2 men just disappear off the radar?
Conspiracy theories? Who wouldn't put anything past this Zionist/Military/Corporate controlled government?
The ignorance is truly frightening.
Just to counter all this "blame the muslims" stuff on other sites I keep seeing, here is a list of things that Muslims HAVEN'T done, but have been blamed for:
http://www.takeourworldback.com/itwasntmuslims.htm
(This site is serious, and is full of references if in doubt.)
*I just want to add three things:
1) I in NO WAY agree with ANY of the comments from Breitbart that I posted ( - if you don't believe these comments are there [and I only posted a small fraction of them], I posted the link.)
2) I am UNWILLING to pass a judgement on this act - or to blame it on 'something' at this point. This was a tragedy indeed, and there is more to this than this guys ethnicity and religion. I do not find this as a "black and white" issue, there is more going on with this story for me to form an opinion about it yet. But those who are making statements like the ones on Breitbart, I can not tolerate.
3) Can someone please explain to me how this is a "terrorist" act, and how the shooting at Virginia Tech was a "criminal" act? In the least, either BOTH were "terrorist" acts or both were "criminal" acts - someone inform me of how Conservatives make these sorts of determinations. [The "t" word is all over conservative sites which is why I'm asking the question and singling out the right-wing.]
"2) I am UNWILLING to pass a judgement on this act - or to blame it on 'something' at this point."
Well, we can safely blame the U.S. making wars of aggression, totally unjustified wars, wars the UN refused to authorise, wars in which definitely over one million Iraqis and Afghans, and now Pakistanis, have been killed, while some didn't die from being shot or bombed, but did die only because of these criminal wars, so we can count those victims as having been killed, murdered, because of these wars. We can blame U.S. hegemony, globally. And we can feel very certain about not falsely blaming anyone in placing or describing this blame.
I should correct myself then, militarism and the Afghan, Pakistan and Iraq wars play the BIGGEST motivation behind these shootings - even more than the guys religious beliefs. Our military is raping people with broken bottles, boiling people alive, dropping bombs on anything and everything, spreading mass death on every corner of the globe, spreading poison in the form of DU that is killing both US soldiers and the arabic/ semetic people it is being used on.
I can agree that the real motivation behind these shootings are the wars of aggression and the atmosphere of the our militaristic culture.
Why waste your time speculating about why he (or they) did it? We'll probably know within a few days. All the suspects are alive.
If they were all military personnel that died, then at least it's a dozen less US killers/torturers/enablers to be unleashed on the world.
And before you brainwashed, knee-jerk, pro-military dingbats start flapping your gums - FYI, I am a US Army vet who was stationed on Ft. Hood in 1980-81. I can give NO support to the US military today for what it's doing in Iraq and A'stan, from the newest Private, right up to the highest 4-star's. They all know what's going on, and they should never have joined up to be part of it, or should have refused 8 years ago. Period.
bligh4
"If they were all military personnel that died, then at least it's a dozen less US killers/torturers/ enablers to be unleashed on the world".
Ok, this takes the cake for the most cold-hearted comment I've heard lately. I don't care if it was the military. Would you have felt the same if YOU were shot in cold blood during your station at FT. HOOD? You are at least as guilty as those shot.
A female law enforcement officer was also shot. I guess she deserved it too.
Any of you that think they "deserved it" are truly depraved.
If I were WILLINGLY part of the wanton, cold-blooded murder and torture of millions and wholesale destruction and theft in Iraq & A'stan, then YES, I might have thought I deserved it. I might have thought it was my karma catching up with me. Sooner or later, it will. As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL war criminals or aiders & abetters and should've been tried and strung up by their necks or imprisoned, just like at Nuremberg. Why? Because THOSE ARE THE RULES. That they were quickly killed by gunfire from one of their peers might have been too easy on some of them.
As for the cop who was killed, I don't know. Was she prior military and involved in the heinous crimes in the Middle East during the past 8 years? If so, then perhaps she got what she deserved as well.
bligh4
You sir are a complete moral idiot. Pregnant private deserved it. By your rules Military = Murderers YOU deserve to be killed. 1981? Draft was FAR in the past, you joined willingly. Was the cop ex military? I don't know. But YOU are. Therefore I recommend throwing yourself off a high building immediatly to try to make amends for YOUR crimes.
What a complete, absolute heartless piece of work you are.
bligh4--"What a complete, absolute heartless piece of work you are."
Do you normally feel this outraged when the victims are dirt poor Afghan kids ?? Just checking .... my guess is you dont give a shit. Seditious is just making a point but you cannot see it in your blind, selective outrage.
bligh4
Riddimboy, MY outrage is selective? are you kidding me? You and Seditious seem to think the cold blooded killing of a bunch of 19-20 year old kids is perfectly ok.
If you had seen any of my posts you would have known that I have advocated pulling out of Afghanistan. Afghan civilians are being killed-2/3s by the other side according to the recent U.N. studies- and that is also unacceptable and horrific. Hence my calls to leave the country. Does not justify painting all military personell as "War Criminals" deserving to be shot while waiting to get their flu shot.
This is "progressive" thought? What the hell? What if it was your brother or sister?
Seditious IS willing to POSSIBLY have compassion for the civilian law enforcement people shot- as long as they never served in the military. Do you think this is right?
Damn right I'm outraged. Callous comments such as Seditious are met with either agreement or ....crickets.
If you cannot feel badly for the innocent victims and their families then you are both beyond help.
Look, killing in never okay--except, of course, when we're 'fighting terrorism,' correct? Do you see just a wee bit of hypocrisy here? I think what they are saying is that your outrage is one-sided and narrow. War is nothing BUT terror. Many civilians--oh sorry, collateral damage--are killed. You know, it's kind of like a water spigot; we want our soldiers to turn it on and off at some psychotic commander's behest. Well, it doesn't always work that way, especially when the naivety fades and disillusionment sets in. The warrior begins to see that he is as bad as the 'evil' he enlisted to fight. He then feels angry, betrayed, and misused. Self-hate sets in when he thinks back on the atrocities he has beheld or committed--a crises point it reached. Sometimes he takes suicide as the way out, or cracks in some other way, killing his family or shooting up his fellow soldiers (as in this case). It's only the truly sadistic that can enjoy the killing of war, and many of those receive commendations and promotions, and/or join Blackwater after they are discharged. So save your 'outrage,' it rings hollow with many who post here.
bligh4
The hypocrisy I see is entirely from your side. I never defended the killing of civilians or anyone. But, however "hollow" it rings here, I am pissed at the almost gleeful attitude of some of the posters that these teenagers were shot down. So much for "compassionate progressives".
You may think is ok, I don't.
bligh--"Riddimboy, MY outrage is selective? are you kidding me? You and Seditious seem to think the cold blooded killing of a bunch of 19-20 year old kids is perfectly ok."
Why do you assume im okay with the killing of anyone leave alone a bunch of kids ? i suppose you are trying to buttress your argument by painting me as a lunatic. Feel free to do so. I think Nadal is on the same moral plane as the Marines out in Iraq and Afghanistan. I dont see the difference in morality of killing 18-20 year old Americans as opposed to 18-20 year old Afghans. Just because the State sez so is not good enough. Your are blinded by your patriotism and that is your first real crime.
I am certainly not gleeful, and do not side with those who are. However, I do think this should be a wake up call for ending the wars--all sides are suffering terribly, and it is obvious that we are not achieving the desired results; in fact, it is having the OPPOSITE effect, including driving the 'warriors' mad.
Oh and those 'teenagers' have chosen to become part and parcel of the killing machine--though they may be naive, I do not think you can call them 'innocent.' Personally, I like to see it serve as a wake up call for others who would enlist.
I guess you didn't catch the gist, Einstein: when I was active duty in the early 80's, I DIDN'T PARTICIPATE, directly or indirectly, in anything like the Iraq and A'stan ongoing massacres. There wasn't a "war" THEN, remember dumbass?? Nor would I have joined if there was something like what's happening today.
By "my rules", I say anyone in the military that commits or condones war crimes/crimes against humanity, or is aware of and doesn't report or take measures to stop it or refuse to participate...is a war criminal or an accessory. My "idiotic" morals on this are the same as those in the Geneva Conventions and Uniform Code of Military Justice. The pukes in uniform today have discarded those.
The question for you is: will these concepts ever penetrate your thick skull??
bligh4
So, Just so I have this straight: YOU join the military and it's ok because you have no intention of actually FIGHTING. Wow, you are just what the military needed. If my memory serves me correctly, there were plenty of fights in the early 80's. The Bakaa valley, Lebanon, Invasion of Granada, botched helicopter rescue in the desert (thanks Jimmy) North Korean incident, ect. ect. You aided and abetted these "crimes".
Also, by your unbelievably moronic definition, ALL the troops of the U.S., Canada, the UK, Germany, Denmark,Pakistan, ect. are war criminals and deserve to die. After all, they are all in the fight.
Don't try to throw the Geneva Convention into this, as you obviously do not have the slightest idea what the Code of Military Justice actually means. By your definition, simply belonging to the military makes you a criminal. What a crock of crap.
My neighbors 20 year old daughter is now a "puke"? Screw you. Try growing a heart, I've given up on you growing a brain.
Just so you have this straight: It's OK because I had/have no intention of actually COMMITTING WAR CRIMES, TORTURE, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. "Fighting", that is, LEGALLY defending your country, is not the same thing.
A clandestine, isolated operation by one small part of the military (that I had no prior knowledge was going to take place) cannot be blamed on the whole, unlike the full-court press, blatant actions of Iraq and A'stan today that ALL of the US military is aware of and involved in.
You simple-minded apologist.
That's right - take your neighbor's stupid 20-year old daughter aside and tell her she's part of war crimes and aiding & abetting torture, you ignorant son of a bitch. That's the unvarnished truth, whether your misguided sense of "compassion" or "patriotism" tells you that or not.
You've obviously never been part of any military, and you're not going to lecture me on the law that has been laid down for many moons. You are a knee-jerk armchair quarterback, with less brains and experience than someone like George W. Bush - and that's saying something.
Go fuck yourself, bligh4. You're a supporter of murder and torture and maiming by the Military-Industrial Complex. You should be locked up in a hard cell along side the rest of them.
I think the lesson here is that one cannot live by the sword and escape violence in his or her own life. The ice ball freezes the hand that wields it, and murderers often get murdered in return, if not physically, then emotionally and physically. The wounds of war go a lot deeper than just bodily harm. Even so-called 'mental health experts' are not immune. And yes this world is far more depraved than most imagine. Some say there is no way to escape Karma, except by transcending the darkness which perpetuates it.
I find myself almost speechless.
The unemployment (the real numbers, not the BS fed by the media and crackpot "economists") in this country is a huge factor in why people join the military now. I feel horrible that our young people are both forced by economics and coerced by propaganda into signing up for such a shitty job. Hell, it sucked in the 80's and 90's as well, but they are treated far worse now than they have been in a long time.
It's easy to point the finger when you have the hindsight of prior service, but remember, you were an 18 year old idiot at one time as well. (As was I) The disillusionment is palpable.
Compassion doesn't hurt.....
Coerced by propaganda? Maybe. Forced by economics? A lame excuse. Don't give me the old "no jobs" argument. I'm well aware that the unemployment rate in this country is around 20%, but no one HAS to join the illegal killing machine known as the US military in order to make a paycheck, anymore than they have to resort to selling crack or prostitution or robbing someone. There are other alternatives.
Defendant: "Your Honor, I couldn't find a job so I had to hold up that bank."
Judge: "5 to 15 years in the state penitentiary. It sucks to be you."
I have news for you: even IF you're enticed into the military based on recruitment lies, once you've seen what goes on, you have an obligation to make up your own mind and refuse to follow illegal orders. Take some responsibility before you kick that door down in Baghdad or Kandahar and bash an innocent old man's head in with a rifle butt. Or before you send a missile into a school or wedding party.
Bullshit.
When I was 18 and enlisted in 1979, I knew I would not have done so if there had been invasions/occupations going on anything near like there is today. I remember telling my family that if Mr. Raygun started a war, they could rest assured that I would not go if it were yet another gratuitous, unnecessary fiasco like Vietnam. DEFEND my country? You betcha. OFFEND others at the point of a gun for the enrichment of the MIC? Not I. No way, no how.
Even before we had the internet, I was capable of picking up a newspaper and asking questions to find out what I might be getting myself into, and I was capable of making my own decisions.
REAL soldiers, REAL men of honor, REAL leaders - would not do what the goddamned bastards in Iraq and A'stan have been doing. They'd stand up and slam the brakes on the whole nasty affair. I am utterly revolted by and ashamed of the military I used to be part of.
Seditious November 6th, 2009 9:04 am -- Your comments are one-sided. You seem to think the American soldiers who were shot deserved it, but I don't hear similar thoughts about soldiers of other nations, or Al Qaeda or other terrorists not affiliated with any nation, who have also been responsible for civilian deaths.
Your objections to what the U.S. is doing are based on moral sensitivities, but you've blocked out one of the basic moral sensitivities we all must hang onto, as individual human beings, no matter how outraged we feel: it's wrong to kill or maim people who, at the moment, aren't trying to kill or maim you, or people you're duty-bound to defend. Morality demands, in that situation, a more moderate approach. The fact that militarism has as a primary goal suppressing that individual moral duty doesn't justify you in suppressing it in yourself.
I didn't mention "soldiers of other nations, or Al Qaeda or other terrorists not affiliated with any nation" because I was not a member of their militaries or organizations, and this is not about other country's militaries. It's about the US'.
If you've bought the lies about "Al Qaeda", 9/11, and all the rest, then you are as big a rube as those knuckleheads in the US military that have been part of the slaughter in Iraq & A'stan. In other words, how stupid can you get?
As for this guy walking out in the street and killing his peers at random on his own whim, yes it is illegal and I didn't advocate that. But like it or not, it is also poetic justice. I said above that, long before now, these war criminals/aiders & abetters should have been tried and sentenced legally, or better still, should not have made the conscious decisions to be part of it in the first place.
As a former US NAVY vet I must say that I mostly agree. However, I can and do have sympathy for the youngest ones who honestly believe what their elders have sold them into. It is all so truly despicable.
I have known many psychologists and students of psychology who had severe mental problems. I am convinced that they chose that field of study to try to find out why their suffering was out of all proportion to any problems they had.
One was continually committing herself to institutions; there was one suicide. Many complained constantly, others were unusually taciturn.
The military is not conducive to mental well being, neither, I gather, are many parts of Texas. Fort Hood has the dubious distinction of having a high suicide rate.
Maybe if we would stop this institutionalized murdering such as war and capital punishment, our citizens would follow such a worthy example.
You know the ractionary right-wingers will run with this.
Thank you psychotic asshole. Now they'll really profile Muslims. :(
I heard that name on the radio at work, and all I could say to myself was "oh no."
Oh btw, we should have gotten out of Iraq and Afghanistan 15 minutes ago. We should have never gone period.
And no one should be serving, regardless of their gender, sexual preference, or religion.
Create a new army of people that can build homes and clean up neighborhoods.
I keep asking myself this same question. Why aren’t we in this country creating millions of new jobs to clean up and rebuild the infrastructures of this nation? The GOVERNMENT should be creating new jobs….lots of jobs.
Where are our resources going? Some people do not realize where their taxes should be going. We are the ones that should be demanding where the allocation of our resources should go. That goes for healthcare too. So much opportunity and it is all going down the drain by the ignorant trying to keep the rich and demented in power.
Such anger and hate and intellectual banter in so many of these posts. So much "us and them", I thought this was "Common Dreams". To have the individual that was meant to support and heal the trauma, end up loosing it himself and taking it out on others makes me angry too....angry because we all know this hatred and anger towards eachother can only be healed from the heart...all the intellectualism, all the "I am right and you are wrong", no matter what side of the fence you are on, is crazy making. This person wanting to help, to make sense out of it, to help others, lost his cookies. This sad and horrible event is a testimony to the understanding that our hearts are breaking. The wars and the killing breaks our hearts...as does the hatred and the blame. Can we for a moment, stop. Just stop justifying any of it? It doesn't make sense, it is not right, and no intellectual weight throwing is gonna change that. We are at war, killing eachother for what? Survival, oil....it is what we do. We all do it, and until we move on and begin to come from a differnt more whole place, nothing will change. I have spent the last several years coming to this site, I learned some, but mostly I have only witnessed alot of anger, hate and blame. Very little responsibility taking. Very little compassion. That saddens me, the name common dreams evokes in me a sense of shared understanding....we are all human, we all dream for peace and understanding, yet this has become a dumping ground for egotistical superiority and one upmanship. Does anyone else feel this way?
Maybe all this is like the mourning process. I think we are grieving for what could be. There are according to the information out there… there are five stages in the grieving process. There is denial, anger, bargaining depression, and acceptance.
We seem to be stuck in anger. Look at what is left ….bargaining and depression. The trick here is ….at least for me it is……I’LL BE DAMNED if I am going to start “bargain” for what my Constitution guarantees me and I’ll be damned if I am going to sit depressed and stare at my belly button. THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT FOLKS!
We just have to make sure our anger is not turned inward and that we do something constructive with it. We are in the majority. We can teach and people can learn from our examples. We protect each other. We are legend in this country and we all have more in common that we think.
You have my vote.
@pavitra> "Does anyone else feel this way?"
Yes.
i get your point pavitra, but i also believe frustration plays a big part in this. we feel impotent in the face of adversity.
i recommend a book for us all: virus of the mind by richard brodie.
I like you have been reading for about a year.
i share your frustration
Sounding off seems to be an important part of my process in life
MOVEMENT is another
I keep wanting to begin and continue conversations with a good number of CD contributors
Is there a way to do that on this site?
The conversations would be about actions, visions, steps, directions
Concrete stuff - maybe follow in the YES Men tradition
Maybe something in a completely different vein
What could a "we" achieve together?
Without that action link.... I'm left kind of flat.
well at least when reading CD I don't feel crazy and alone in my perceptions
I find validation here on this site
Is this just one more post in the wind?
I agree with you. There is so much pain and frustration that I see here, but it is what I feel everyday. I live with someone who gets very nasty and shouts me down when I talk about my feelings, and so that's why I guess I'm here -- so I don't feel so alone either. I want to stop feeling helpless about all this. People off this site and in "real life" still seem so apathetic, into their own little suburban world (I live on Long Island), and if you try to talk to people you often get the "I don't want to talk about bad things," or "I prefer to deal only with the positive." What is so negative about wanting to take action to end these constant unjust wars? What is so negative about wanting to take action so that we all have real health care? And the one I love the best? "Oh, that's politics, I don't talk about politics." But politics is part of life and life is not doing too well. These people will not get it until it hits them, and then they'll go one of two ways -- they'll vote for more violence or they'll look at the big picture and realize that violence simply leads to more and more violence. It's been going on since the beginning of time.
so what are the limbaughs, becks and palins' going to spin to pacify the anticipated (but probably brief) renewed calls to end this maddness....
lessee... feigned sorrow... shocked indignance... whatever... they'll all reach the SAME conclusion... these WARS are GOOD... and you (the cowering masses) should be DAMN GLAD we're sending more and more soldiers into the fight...
there'll be blatant or not-so-blatant (already is on CD)references to ethnicity...
"you go to war with the army you have... not the army you wish you had..." don rumsfeld... fmr. sect of def... circa 2003...
hey don... how's that tamiflu stock doin'?... you beat out cheyney on his haliburton holdings yet...? and is "w" gaining ground on you guys with his speaking fees...?
I bet that Major Hasan was trying to calm down the shooter, and was killed for being Muslim and nearby.
Of couse, the US Military will do its usual number on him. Note the codewords:
The Army major SUSPECTED of opening fire on soldiers ... MAY have been an Army psychiatrist specializing in traumatic stress syndrome
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
I applaud you for your prudence on holding out on this issue. He may have had a gun to defend from the shooter or may even have tried to intervene and was mistaken for the attacker and killed.
Its 99% likely he WAS the shooter, but its good to mind the 1% until all the facts have been gathered.
I never trust the media to get it right, especially when they are getting their information from the US Military.
Considering that he was reported dead, then miraculously came back to life 12 hours later, I tend to reserve judgement until ALL the facts are in.
Could be another "Pat Tillman" story with a twist....
But, it is likely that he did do it.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Good caution.
Joe
I never trust the media to get it right, especially when they are getting their information from the US Military.
Considering that he was reported dead, then miraculously came back to life 12 hours later, I tend to reserve judgement until ALL the facts are in.
Could be another "Pat Tillman" story with a twist....
But, it is likely that he did do it.
"The only means of strengthening one's intellect is to make up one's mind about nothing, to let the mind be a thoroughfare for all thoughts." - John Keats
Ok, I actually have a question for the progressives on here. When a Muslim commits an act of violence I always read calls putting the shooters issue on trial in the public media.
However, last spring a man was murdered for practicing abortions. I noted progressives were not arguing for abortion to be put on trial the same way they want our foreign policy put on trial in response to crimes committed by Muslims.
I myself see no reason to play into a persons hands like this, on either issue. However I do not the variance, and would like to know why.
I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate hearing your thoughts on it. I am a progressive, but I am very ambivalent about abortion. However, I do not presume to tell any woman what she should do with her body....Having said that, I think that this society should make a huge effort to put the emphasis on birth control, or adoption, not abortion. We should make birth control so effective, and adoption so attractive, that abortion becomes obsolete. I fully understand the outrage of those who are against abortion, but they have no right to kill anyone. It is also true that Muslims have no right to kill anyone, revenge only creates more violence, more hatred. But this US gov't has done so much wrong in the middle east, caused so much trouble, that no one should be surprised that we are so hated. And we need to be accountable, and do what we can to make things right. We have destroyed two countries there, and killed hundreds of thousands of people. All for nothing. If this had happened to you, your family slaughtered, your possessions destroyed, being thrown in jail and tortured, how would you react?
The simple fact that society as a whole has yet to rebuke racist bigots like you and many on here who have been speculating for hours now, in the same manner that it does anti-Semitism is proof that many lack the basic mental capacity required to realize that racism is racism regardless of the group its directed toward. Thirty years ago it was common practice to throw around racist slurs at blacks and Jews. Today the same is happening but to a different group. Idiots seem to forget that they need proof first to support their speculation.
Ok, what was racist about my question? Or to put it another way, when news of the abortion doctor's murder were reported right here on common dreams, who here was not speculating that the assassin was a Christian anti-abortion activist? When they didn't even have a name to go on? Was that also racist? After all, at the time the story broke his murderer could have simply been a crime of passion over a love triangle, or a fight over money. The fact that he was assassinated inside a church, and was the only physician practicing abortion in the state, gave people the information they needed to speculate that a Christian anti-abortion activist was the perp. And it turns out, they were right.
The tortured logic of your reasoning is nauseating.
Abortion clinic bombers attack abortion clinics because the concept of "Pro Choice" contradicts their concept of "Pro Life".
None of the abortion clinic attackers/bombers worked at the abortion clinics. The attackers were outsiders.
In this case, the attacker involved is a soldiers, a major to boot, so this shooting is the equivalent of a workplace shooting, not an abortion clinic attack. Do you see the difference?
But, I bet if a work place shooting took place and the attacker's name was the same as this major's, you and your bigoted friends would be attributing his actions to his ethnicity/race/religion. Why? Because that's how your brain works.
It is NOT OK to speculate about a shooters religion if it is a "workplace shooting".(Even if the shooter's religion has been verified by his co-worker, a Colonel).
-----------------------------
No.
YOU, mentioned his religion as if that should have any bearing on his actions.
If his name were John Suckledick would you write, "He has a Christian name" in your post?
Dude, let us recognize the notion of 'context'. I was responding to posts in this very thread ranting along about how US foreign policy 'against' Muslims created this attack. Scroll to the bottom, I see no rebuttals from you on their analysis. Hmmm, wonder why? If you had a problem with assuming his religion was his motive why not attack ALL who implied that, as opposed to those only critical? Your bias is showing. And yes, if you notice the attacks Muslims have carried out or planned to in the US and globally you would see a fitting pattern.
that was the most twisted logic i've seen in some time... HOW... o fergetit ... thanks for replying to the imbecile...
After this, are we going to have to let soldiers carry guns on army posts for self-defense?
My teenage grandson's daddy is an Army Ranger who has been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, countless times since my grandson was nine. He has suffered nightmares, migraines, failure in school, etc. He has no interest in his future, just wants to loaf and play violent videogames. I can't even imagine what today's military kids will be like as adults, but it won't be pretty. We will be paying for Bush's wars for oil for decades to come, and so won't these kids who were abandoned by this great society. And I would like to remind people that Obama did NOT cause any of the horrific messes that George Bush left him, and instead of attacking him, why not find out how we can help?
That sounds bad BUT the Army Ranger choose to do that Job.
If people wouldn't join up there would be no one to fight their wars.
Help Obama? How about helping the Afghans and the Pakistanis who have been slaughtered under Obama's orders by advising your relative not to take part in American militarism. A good start would be to send him a copy of the documentary Sir! No Sir! which told the the story of the GI rebellion that took place during the Vietnam War.
I was speaking of the personal tragedy of my beloved grandson. If you knew me, you would know that I have been protesting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since before they began. I have been shunned by family members, co-workers, and fellow townspeople, because I refused to keep quiet. I also have been protesting US policy where Israel is concerned, for many years. I am not bragging, I just want people to know that they must do something besides complain. For God's sake, do something! As for my ex son-in-law, his mind is tightly closed, he is a product of the US military culture, he believes in what he is doing. He's been in the Army for eighteen years, since he was eighteen. Its all he knows. I repeat, Obama was handed an impossible job, one that he was not prepared for. So much was kept secret from him. He will do the best he can to serve the people, if we will just let him.
I can agree with you in just about everything, from a civilian point of view. I have a nephew who is pure military, went to Iraq, and could have gotten out of the military when he came home last year. But he's not, he's staying, he actually believes he is defending the country and his family is all about the honor and glory of the military.
As for Obama? No, I have given up on him. I have read too much, listened to too much over these 10-plus months. It's been one disappointment after another. To be sure there are "bones" thrown to the people to keep them "off-balance," but on the major issues like the wars, health care reform, the economy, he's just part of "business as usual." Obama is simply another Imperial President, but he's so "likeable" and "well-spoken," he will be able the shaft us the same way Bush did, only much worse because it's all wrapped up in slick advertising.
Your mind is tightly closed as much as your ex son-in-law's if you think Obama "was handed an impossible job". Obama and his corrupt party repeatedly authorized and voted to fund the carnage. They had a chance to stop the wars in 2006 when they gained the majority and Obama can bring the troops home by executive order, TODAY. Bush and the Republicans are not in charge anymore, stop blaming them. By the way, why don't Democrats investigate, indict, prosecute and throw Republicans in jail? I'll tell you why, because they were aiders and abettors during the entire Bush administration.
And what kind of daughter did you raise to marry someone as brainwashed as your son-in-law? And they had a son? Personally, I wouldn't even shake the hands of someone in the military, let alone allow my daughter to marry them.
SB1776
Good God. You seriously believe that the Taliban is a threat "against America?" The Taliban have absolutely no interest in matters outside their own country. You really need to try to not wave the flag so vigorously as it does seem to be impeding your thought processes. My solution to these problems is quite simple. The United States, by its very presence, is the cause of the violence in Afghanistan just as it was and is in Iraq. By the U.S. stupidly having its soldiers in those countries is like pouring kerosene on an already raging fire. The presence of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan will send more Afghans to the side of the Taliban as they will never rest, just as the Vietnamese did not rest some forty years ago, until the United States military has been finally driven from their soil.
Afghans-resist the American military and the American Empire.
Pakistan is a sovereign nation, and therefore chooses how to govern it's own territory-it is not our business (once again) to tell them what to do. They did not have the problems that they are facing currently before we illegally invaded Afghanistan. A bit of historical background might help.
The British created the borders of Pakistan and India in the final days of the Raj (by Fiat, I might add) creating the inter-tribal problems that have manifested themselves today. The Taliban were created and funded by the US and NATO during the Soviet occupation-including the Islamist-jihadi ideology. We thought it would be a great tool to use against the Soviets (the Saudis had their hands in this as well) Now as far as the Taliban aligning themselves with Al-Qaida-that is just plain bunk. Osama et al were there as guests prior to 9/11. As orthodox Muslims, it is against their moral code to back-stab a guest without good reason. According to the history, they asked for proof that Osama was behind the attacks before they would hand him over to us, a request we refused. Americans have no moral code, so this was something we could just not understand. (Ask the Native Americans about that) The reason we invaded was not for revenge over 9/11 or to get Osama. We invaded because the Taliban refused to allow Unocal to build a pipeline across Afghanistan.
There is so much more but I'm tired of typing.
Before I'm branded as some BS lefty or whatever, I would like you to know that I spent 8 years in the late 80's early 90's in the special forces, where I learned a great deal about the history of that particular region. (By necessity. I was in a cold weather mountain unit)
succinct... accurate... and well put... thanks! but again... we run from facts... i guess the reality is too scary...