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Tour of Tskhinvali Undercuts Russian Claim of Genocide
TSKHINVALI, Georgia — As Russian troops pounded through Georgia last week, the Kremlin and its allies repeatedly pointed to one justification above all others: The Georgian military had destroyed the city of Tskhinvali.
Russian politicians and their partners in Tskhinvali, the capital of the breakaway region South Ossetia, said that when Georgian forces tried to seize control of the city and the surrounding area, the physical damage was comparable to Stalingrad and the killings similar to the Holocaust.
But a trip to the city on Sunday, without official escorts, revealed a very different picture. While it was clear there had been heavy fighting - missiles knocked holes in walls, and bombs tore away rooftops - almost all of the buildings seen in an afternoon driving around Tskhinvali were still standing.
Russian-backed leaders in South Ossetia have said that 2,100 people died in fighting in Tskhinvali and nearby villages. But a doctor at the city's main hospital, the only one open during the battles that began late on Aug. 7, said the facility recorded just 40 deaths.
The discrepancy between the numbers at Tskhinvali's main hospital and the rhetoric of Russian and South Ossetian leaders raises serious questions about the veracity of the Kremlin's version of events. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and other senior officials in Moscow have said the Georgians were guilty of "genocide," prompting their forces to push Georgia's military out of South Ossetia - in a barrage of bombing runs and tanks blasts - and march southeast toward the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, stopping only 25 miles away.
That explanation, that Russians were saving South Ossetians from total annihilation, undergirded Moscow's rationale for the invasion.
Georgia's leadership maintains the war was launched by the Kremlin because of longstanding resentment about the former Soviet republic's close ties with the West.
Since Russian troops occupied much of Georgia last week, Kremlin officials have suggested strongly that both South Ossetia and its fellow rebel region, Abkhazia, should gain independence from Tbilisi.
A senior member of Russia's parliament, Konstantin Zatulin, was in Tskhinvali on Sunday. "We need to recognize reality," he said, meaning that South Ossetia should secede from Georgia.
Zatulin also said that the Russian government intended to spend some $100 million on building a "Moscow district" in the city; he did not explain what that would entail.
Russian troops have kept tight control on access to Tskhinvali, often bringing reporters in on coordinated trips. A McClatchy journalist was stopped at a checkpoint on the way out of Tskhinvali and directed back to a Russian outpost, where officers demanded to know where the journalist had been and whom he'd interviewed. In addition to Russian soldiers, South Ossetian militia fighters roamed the streets. One of them, drunk, walked up and showed off a shiny watch. "I got it from the body of a Georgian soldier," he said with a smile.
The difference between Russian officials' description of Tskhinvali and the facts on the ground are profound.
Col. Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy head of the Russian military's general staff, said last Tuesday that "Tskhinvali doesn't exist, it's like Stalingrad was after the war."
But in fact, the city still does exist. While there was extensive damage to some structures, most buildings had front doors on their hinges and standing walls. For every building charred by explosions - the Georgians are accused of using multiple rocket launcher systems - there were others on tree-lined streets that looked untouched.
One government center was hollowed out by blasts, but the one next to it teemed with workers.
While the city was still teetering from the violence, families sat on benches in front of their homes and ate fruit. Many talked about the Georgian incursion on Aug. 7, and the Russian units that then streamed across Georgia's border to beat them back.
"There were Georgian tanks on each street," said Givi Tsekhov, who was walking in front of his apartment building. "But then the Russians came."
Down the road from Tskhinvali, in Georgian areas now occupied by Russian troops, entire towns were almost completely empty and a few bodies were splayed on the side of the road, bloated and cooked by the sun.
Not only was the destruction in Tskhinvali a far cry from Stalingrad after World War II, it was well short of what happened in the southern Beirut suburbs during Israel's war with Hezbollah in the summer of 2006, or the Iraqi city of Fallujah during U.S. fighting against insurgents in November 2004.
In short, the city was scarred but still standing.
The doctor at the Tskhinvali hospital, Tina Zakharova, said she wanted to clarify that she wasn't disagreeing with the South Ossetian officials' numbers, adding that many bodies had been buried in gardens and cemeteries in outlying villages. She could not, however, explain how more than 2,000 dead - the difference between her hospital's count and the Kremlin-backed officials' tally - were buried in a relatively small area without any evidence such as stacks of coffins or mass funerals.
Researchers for Human Rights Watch, an international advocacy group, had similar findings as McClatchy about casualty numbers in Tskhinvali. A doctor at the city's hospital told the group's researchers that 44 bodies were brought by and was "adamant" that they represented the majority of deaths there because the city's morgue was not functioning at the time.
"Obviously there's a discrepancy there, a big discrepancy," Rachel Denber, deputy director for Europe and Central Asia at Human Rights Watch, said about the apparently inflated casualty figures. "It's not clear to us at all where those numbers are coming from."
McClatchy Newspapers 2008



53 Comments so far
Show AllDo you usually take dead people to the hospital?
I think once a Georgian tank has drove over a young child, or some old lady had been locked in her house and incinerated...not much point is getting out the spatula and glad bags and taking their remains through heavy shelling and fighting to go see the doctor...
doh!
sorry McClatchy...your bias is showing
the US media some bought off long ago has to paint Russia as the bad guy.
I said this on another story how many would have been murdered if Russia had NOT showed up?
This whole set up by USA/Israel was to make Russia look bad in Europe. It is reported in several European papers and web sites that this attempt didn't work. Americans have to remember Europe views America as a joke since its people have allowed Bush and the rest to still be in power this long. Hacing spent time in Europe on several occasions I know this to be true.
"For every building charred by explosions - the Georgians are accused of using multiple rocket launcher systems - there were others on tree-lined streets that looked untouched."
Uh, let's do that math. Does that mean that one out of two buildings was blown up? Who is the idiot who wrote this article?
I think that "genocide" and total destruction is an exaggeration, But if the Russians had not counter attacked, it could have been.
So they probably exaggerated which every nation does in War but the breakaway republic friendly to them with many Russian citizens was viscously attacked... the lesson is if you want to be safe and care about national security, Don't mess with Russia.
The War Machine will make more money from all this with more public debt and the US will have to craft a whole new military policy (scrap world domination strategy) to deal with it to prevent a nuclear genocide which is looming now... With McCain this is a scary Deal.
Russia does not want to be a Western Democracy, but an Eastern Democracy and doesn't want to be bankrupt like the USA.
Wait a minute, countries are distorting war coverage to make it seem more favorable to their side? NO WAY! I'm shocked!
The tight control of journalists is definitely sketchy, but that's the make crap we pull, Israel pulls, any country at war pulls. It wouldn't surprise me if Russia was distorting casualty numbers, just like we distort casualty numbers. It wouldn't surprise me if Russia was attempting to control the press representation of the conflict, just like we attempt to control the press representation of the conflict.
Like all wars, this is all just a bunch of nationalist bullshit, and the ones paying the biggest price are the South Ossetians caught in the middle.
canuckchuck: You said, "sorry, McClatchy...your bias is showing."
I'm not so sure. One thing I've noticed over time is that regarding internal U.S. politics, the McClatchy papers seem to be the only ones digging for the "story under the story" -- they have a LOT of credibility with me for that reason.
Putin, on the other hand, never seems to have gotten over his years in the KGB. Remember his lies during the Kursk tragedy? I think the Russian Gov't is lying again.
Human Rights Watch is not a genuine human rights organization, but is a billionaire club that runs its propaganda in tandem with the US State Department. Doubt that assessment? Then you need to checkout the funding for Human Rights Watch. Follow the dollars...
http://www.notmytribe.com/2008/human-rights-watch-is-a-us-state-department-vehicle-not-a-genuine-human-rights-organization-84292.html
HRW has been losing credibility for the last few years. It always has been a more Washington friendly version of Amnesty.
Putin referred to the 30,000 civilians who fled north to Russia as part of this ethnic cleansing. The death toll comes from the South Ossetians themselves.
If you remember Kosovo, tales of Serbian ethnic cleansing and massacres were hugely exaggerated by the Albanian Kosovars, so Russia is returning the favour. However, this time Russia stepped in immediately before the situation reached the point of full scale ethnic cleansing. The fifteen dead peacekeepers attests to their sacrifice.
Superficial reporting. "But in fact, the city still does exist." What's that supposed to mean?
I perceive CD's choices of articles covering this entire story to have been very weak, and that's putting it mildly. In fact, some of them seem almost as badly slanted as the pure propaganda published by the U.S. corporate media.
IMO, both CounterPunch and Clearinghouse have done much more creditable jobs of reporting and analysis -- especially with regard to such underlying issues as the highly questionable expansion of NATO's role and activities far from the "North Atlantic" and, of course, the ever-present petro control and routing factors.
I agree AdeleTheCzech (1:38) - It was McClatchy that exposed the lies running up to the Iraq war. Governments lie. I still support the Russian response. Hopefully civilians didn't suffer as much as first reported.
I don't trust any of the parties to this affair. Not the Russians, not the Georgians, not the South Ossetians, and certainly not George W. Bush.
Huh.
False claims of "genocide" justifying a military response.
Thank god WE would never do something underhanded like that.
*coughKosovocough*
At least Russia didn't try to tell people that Georgians had thrown Russian babies out of their incubators.
The CIA's man in Tbilisi did what he was expected to do, to launch a military assault on a non-belligerent city and see how much damage it could do and still pose as a defender of Democracy. That it was an unprovoked assault on the border of Russia, and not a fantasy threat ginned up for American mass consumption, will escape mention. That the McClatchy papers were better in opposing the Iraq mass murder operation doesn't mean that they aren't also committed to the Nice Imperialism of the imperial Homeland.
Few people have mentioned the presence of Democratic big wheel Bob Shrum at the conference with Rove and Sakashvili a couple of weeks ago.
You guys really need to get over the idea that anything that can be used to counter your own neocons is the truth because obviously there's a conspiracy.
Yes, they're a nasty bunch, but the Russians certainly can play games too, and do, when given the chance.
If Bush and the Democrats say that the Russians are the bad guys in the story, you can bet your entire life savings that they're not.
Karl Rove wasn't in the country to testify in congress in July, guess where he was was? You guessed it, Georgia, not known for being a hot Summer vacation spot.
The US planned all this, yet another provocation to get Russian into war. That thousands of lives were lost in the folly, it's of little concern to Americans, why should it be?
I believe that Georgia attacked first.
Although the Russian bear isn't as ferocious as it used to be, it is formidable nonetheless. If you are stupid enough to take shots at the Russian army, expect things to go from bad to worse rapidly. Georgia is going to get tar and feathered.
Read NYTimes today regarding the destruction of Tskhinvali.
It is important to remember that the western press has an anti-Russian bias--i.e., it's pro west/US.
whatever the US does is good--whatever Russia does is bad. It gets worse-whatever the US does is good, whatever someone else does is evil.
We're good, they're evil. Get it?
From the FT.com
"Tskhinvali bears deep scars of war
By Catherine Belton in Tskhinvali
Published: August 17 2008 20:17 | Last updated: August 17 2008 20:17
The library in Tskhinvali is charred and pockmarked. House after house on the city's main streets has been hit by rocket fire. And on Telman Street, a residential Jewish quarter just a few hundred yards from the city centre, nearly every home has been reduced to rubble."
Same time, same place, different planet?
See for yourself:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dcc5225a-6c86-11dd-96dc-0000779fd18c.html
We need to see this as not just a Georgian conflict, but as one more NATO/ US battlefield advancing their Pentagon directed troops and missiles against Russia, and YES, even China, too.
It is also clear that having the liberal Democrats and Christian pacifist groups control our US Antiwar Movement is a way to not mobilize public opinion against these wars. The Democrats are absolutely 100% behind these NATO advances against Russia, whether it be having Georgia move against South Ossetia, missiles being put in the Czech Republic and Poland, bombing and dividing up Yugoslavia, occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, using Ethiopia to invade and occupy Somalia, and using Israel to commit genocide against the Palestinians.
Liberal types like Norman Solomon, Michael Moore, and Leslie Cagan who shill for the Democrats are not a good foundation in building a real Antiwar Movement that can actually mobilize people against these multiple wars of the US Empire. The main thing they will push for is lobbying the Democratic Party polis and telling folk to vote for them. They just do not get it, and most probably never will.
It is sad to have to go over to the Right Wing Libertarian site to get the real news about these events, because CD just is not able to separate itself from the Democratic Party either. They are always too busy promoting people like Jimmy Carter and Al Gore. They are too busy trying to cover up how absolutely corrupt and tied in with the Republican Party the Democrats actually are.
We need some new structures in the Movement with some new leaders who will not behave in the a manner that this Democratic Party voting gang will. We need some more folk like Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader, and Cindy Sheehan out there soon, or we are all going to see this bipartisan group of gangsters running our country, screw us all up for good.
"Not only was the destruction in Tskhinvali a far cry from Stalingrad after World War II, it was well short of what happened in the southern Beirut suburbs during Israel's war with Hezbollah in the summer of 2006, or the Iraqi city of Fallujah during U.S. fighting against insurgents in November 2004."
I hate the way "genocide" gets thrown around. It's a pretty vague term when you bother to look it up. But just what is the point of this article? Not enough people were killed to justify Russia's response? Where are the articles that question what gave Georgia the right to attack Ossetia in the first place?
Exactly what is the point of this sentence from the article?
"Down the road from Tskhinvali, in Georgian areas now occupied by Russian troops, entire towns were almost completely empty and a few bodies were splayed on the side of the road, bloated and cooked by the sun."
- except to insinuate that the Russians have killed more than the Georgians, possibly committing genocide, while offering no evidence to support this. It's extremely ironic, considering the sole point of the article is to accuse the Russians of inflating the body count.
Arvy said: "I perceive CD's choices of articles covering this entire story to have been very weak"
I totally agree with you. ICH did a much better job of providing good solid information about the Georgia conflict. CD on the other hand, was too busy with McCain/Obama and Edwards getting his rocks off....
President Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia is a stooge for the Bush Administration, and their "democracy" is a farce.
The U.S. is just stupid to be raising further mischief in Georgia. The U.S. has been pushing Russia too far with NATO, messing with former member states, stealing Russian natural gas, and the Wall Street Wiz Kids, with their ideology of privitizing evrything, bled Russia dry, helping themselves and Russian gansters. etc., etc.
Putin is probably the brightest leader in the world (I am not saying saint), he is not stupid like Bush, and the Russian Bear will take no more.
MSM is to be congratulated for swallowing all Bush's
propaganda as the rest of the world laughs at us.
Stephen V. Riley said: "President Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia is a stooge for the Bush Administration, and their so-called democracy is a farce."
When speaking, Saakashvili's obsession with Bush is loud and clear.
Alma mater for Saakashvili:
Kiev State Univ.
Columbia Univ.
George Washington Univ.
Go figure.
Russia has never exactly been a fount of accurate information in anything regarding what its' government does, beginning with the Czars, through to the Communists, and continuing today with Putin. Conversely, Neo-Con buddy Saaskashvili learned a quite a bit about obfuscation from his mentors Dubya, Cheney, & Co. Therefore to paint either side as "right" or "wrong" "victim" or "bully" is simplistic and naive (which is a behavior of Bush crime family cheerleaders and their hypnotized minions / followers). This entire tragic episode is way too complex to be given the superficial American television treatment in any forum, this one included.
'Researchers for Human Rights Watch, an international advocacy group, had similar findings as McClatchy about casualty numbers in Tskhinvali. A doctor at the city's hospital told the group's researchers that 44 bodies were brought by and was "adamant" that they represented the majority of deaths there because the city's morgue was not functioning at the time.'
Has McClatchy newpapers descended to the low level of HRW?
'The blatant media bias displayed by the "mainstream" news organizations is more than matched by the shameful cover-up of Georgian atrocities by the mainline "human rights" organizations, first and foremost Human Rights Watch. In the most brazen display of willful ignorance since Walter Duranty overlooked the Soviet gulags, HRW spokeswoman Anna Neistat told the Guardian that Ossetian claims of Georgian atrocities were "suspicious":
"The figure of 2,000 people killed is very doubtful. Our findings so far do not in any way confirm the Russian statistics. On the contrary, they suggest the numbers are exaggerated."
Neistat avers that no more than 44 were killed and around 200 were wounded in the Georgian attack on Tskhinvali. Perhaps she should talk to International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson, who reports area hospitals "overflowing" with the dead and the wounded.
The voices of the Ossetians are barely reaching the West, but when they do – as in this Australian Broadcasting Corp. news report – they underscore the sheer ugliness of HRW's appalling apologetics::
"One woman told how a family of four including two children tried to flee from a Georgian tank but it 'fired on their car and they were all burned' to death, said Angela, who like all the refugees only gave her first name. In another incident, a woman eight months pregnant and two family members fleeing from the city under attack were hit by tank fire and 'nothing remained of them,' Angela said.
"She saw the Georgian tanks roll into Tskhinvali, the soldiers shouting 'Hail Saakashvili,' who is the president of Georgia. 'They destroyed the city,' added Inna, 33, who said she could not understand how the Georgian troops 'could do that to civilians.'
"'You see your friend's home burning and there's nothing you can do. You just watch and cry, it's a genocide,' Inna said. An old woman among the refugees said all she had left was the dress she was wearing. 'My house is destroyed,' she said."
etc
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13304
Is HRW lying? Is HRW defending a US ally against the Russians?
'The International Committee of the Red Cross said last week that up to a half of the region's population of 70,000 have fled the fighting this month.
Russia has established a refugee camp across the border in North Ossetia to care for an estimated 12,000 people.'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/18/2339174.htm
Wow, just 40 people dead at the hands of the Georgians? Were there at least 40 WMD's found in Iraq that justified its pre-emptive invasion? No?... How about 30,... or 20,... or 10?
"Rice said a main focus of the Brussels meetings would be to ensure Russian President Sergei Medvedev kept his promise..."(Reuters)
I don't know about Sergei but Russian President Dmitry Medvedev promised to bring the war criminals behind the midnight attack on Russian citizens in South Ossetia to the Hague. He must mean Secretary Rice and Senator McCain among others...
bush,cheney, and rice are trying to find ways to punish Russia!!! WORKS BOTH WAYS. Russia decides to no longer handle transportation to the space station. space station is not maintained for 5 or 6 years. SPACE JUNK. Russia dumps it's dollars and stops loaning us money. Better THINK twice bush, cheney, and rice. NOT !!!
The author would have done well to remember that the Georgians only had about 7 hours to do the damage they did--destroying a sizable percentage of the city--before the Russians appeared.
If I were a Russian I would not put up with the US or NATO on my border.
I don't even like the US in North America--let's find another home for it....how about Israel? I've heard that it is basically unoccupied; just a few uneducated nomads wandering around.
So what was it that George W Bush saw when he gazed into the eyes of the KGB thug Putin?
We do know that Putin gazed back and saw stupidity. How did we elect that schmuck - oh yes, the good folk of Florida and the Supremes.
What does it take to impeach this cretin? Photos of George,
Cheney and Condi rolling around naked on the Oval Office rug - with Karl Rove holding the camera and jacking off?
from the international legal definition of genocide:
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm
Key Terms
The crime of genocide has two elements: intent and action. "Intentional" means purposeful. Intent can be proven directly from statements or orders. But more often, it must be inferred from a systematic pattern of coordinated acts.
Intent is different from motive. Whatever may be the motive for the crime (land expropriation, national security, territorrial integrity, etc.), if the perpetrators commit acts intended to destroy a group, even part of a group, it is genocide.
The phrase "in whole or in part" is important. Perpetrators need not intend to destroy the entire group. Destruction of only part of a group (such as its educated members, or members living in one region) is also genocide. Most authorities require intent to destroy a substantial number of group members – mass murder. But an individual criminal may be guilty of genocide even if he kills only one person, so long as he knew he was participating in a larger plan to destroy the group.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dcc5225a-6c86-11dd-96dc-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1
from:Tskhinvali bears deep scars of war
By Catherine Belton in Tskhinvali
Published: August 17 2008 20:17 | Last updated: August 17 2008 20:17
""They were shelling us from all sides, and this was the response," she wept. "Why did Saakashvili do this? Why did they bomb my city just because I am Ossetian? They promised us they would not fire and then they attacked the city."
"While the level of destruction in Tskhinvali is akin to the devastation seen in Grozny in Russia's war against Chechnya, questions remain about the number of dead.
"Mikhail Mensayev, the head of South Ossetia's interior ministry, said this weekend that the death toll had hit more than 2,100."
So if you look at the definition of genocide above you can see that whether it was 44 dead or 2,100 dead, the goal of destroying South Ossetia and driving out the ethnic Ossatians, meets the international legal definition of genocide.
I did like the sign in the street venders window in Ossetia. It has been said the Georgia troops ( so well trained by the US/Israel as soon as they heard the Russian tanks coming dropped their M16's rifles and ran. "The sign says New M16 rifle little used dropped only once".
I'm not very smart, but is it possible to take Kodak Pictures from way up high in the sky?
Maybe mount a polaroid on a boom crane, point it down and click?
No. That would make this infantile non analysis unnecessary, things being in black and white, a picture being worth a thousand words and all...
Maybe if Satellites or Google Earth are invented someday...
How many words were in this puerile article?
I do notice that both Jon Stewart and Colbert have taken the Georgian side in this conflict.
So has Israel.
Guess the Russians are telling the truth.
The jury is still out. In doing more reading today I've concluded that McClatchy may not be as credible as in the past.
The highest level of citizenship is to be able to speak to the issues at hand with the help of critical thinking and self-examination. When the U S Government no longer represents its people it needs to know this. The paper tiger empire of the last decade is imploding right before our eyes. Perhaps this is what the US of A's people want, but if it is, it is a peoples death wish. You may emote, all that you want, about liberals, but you must realize that both the liberal and the neo-con are on the same destructive path, walking hand in hand, for the "American Century."
Liberty, Equality & Fraternity
Thank you, Common Dreamers, for your healthy skepticism of this McClatchy piece. For another perspective, see this:
"Fox Cuts Off 12-Year-Ol Relating Georgian Violence":
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Fox_News_cuts_to_commercial_as_0816.html
U.S. MILITARY TO BUSH: WE WILL NOT ALLOW A WAR
PENTAGON ORDERS BUSH TO PAY SETTLEMENTS TUESDAY
http://worldreports.org/news/162_u.s._military_to_bush_we_will_not_allow_a_war_
This is the kind of BS about Russia that I would find in the lamestream media. The big fairy tale is Georgia the victim.
For the US: lying has consequences i.e., once you are finished, you are still a liar in people's eyes and they do not trust you even when you are telling the truth. You have left your citizens and those in the world who depend on you in a very bad situation.
www.StudentsForTheEarth.org
How laughably half-witted was it for a puny outfit like Georgia to throw rocks at the Russian Bear! For all his ballyhooed Western "education", Saakashvili certainly is a dolt.
Tom. Don't know what you are trying to say with this story. Most of the world has seen and felt the lies and manipulation of the truth by Western media and their supporters. Georgia attacked with the support of the US/Israel and Russia responded. Russia did the right otherwise this madness will not stop. The world wants peace and the US and it's allies need to stop. We are lucky to have Russia and China otherwise we would all be slaves to a World Order we don't want.
Opeluboy:
shortly after 911 if any media person questioned the neo-con version of what happened they were out of work. It changed any real constructive left wing views right there on main line media. Daily is CNN with a laugh track on real issues and is just a few points to the left on safe issues the Gov doesn't care about.
Remember Jon Stewart is Jewish and reminds his guests he is on several occasions, and he knows what hands to lick. I stopped watching it on a regular bases and maybe turn it on for a few minutes and turn it off if he is reading what CNN told him to say. Trouble is America sees this crap and the rest of the world thinks America is stupid and ill informed.
Buddy
good point as how many would have been murderd if Russia had not moved in. Don't worry this is just the beginning, US/IS will start another war some place and Russia will come to the rescue and US/IS media ( a new branch of the Bush Gov) with point their fingers again.
Myself I would like to see Russia move troops etc into IRAN and tell US/IS to shut the F up
I am disappointed at the tendency of many commenters to completely favour one side over the other here. We all know that the NATO powers are liars, and not to be trusted. But when they're dealing with another powerful bloc, such as Russia, don't believe the Russians version just because it contradicts what Washington is saying.
More neutral reports have said that in the run up to the Russian invasion, pro-separatist forces, had stepped up shelling on ethnic Georgian villages within South Ossetia.
It is entirely possible, that the Russians had planned to goad the Georgians into responding by shelling Tskhinvali, and thus 'justifying' the invasion, which had been planned a long time back, and the forces were already in place, at their jump off points, in South Ossetia, and in Russia near the Roki Tunnel, in Abhkazia and the Russian Naval Forces in the Black Sea.
And lets not forget that there was already an ethnic cleansing program in Abhkazia that dislodged ethnic Georgians as the majority of the population, by intimidation etc, causing them to flee. Both NATO and Russia are well accustomed to driving out people to create a false demographic split in provinces.
I blame both Russia and NATO for stoking up local ethnic tensions, in order to advance their power games, which, at the end of the day boil down to, which force will occupy the ground necessary to ensure their pipelines get to exploit and export oil from the Caspian Basin.
If there was no oil, the Kremlin wouldn't care if every last South Ossetian was wiped out, and they wouldn't have bothered to issue them with passports. Likewise, NATO sheds a tear for nobody.
If you're looking for a good guy here, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
NATO? look at Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan etc....
Russia, look at Chechnya, Ingushetia, and Afghanistan etc...
When did either of these guys move a muscle to 'protect civilians'in an area with no oil, or other strategic interest? NEVER. So don't go calling either one of them a guarantor of human rights, and our shield from slavery.
Now watch the old arms race restart, and proxy conflicts as the Russians try to deter the Ukraine from joining NATO. Ukraine has a large ethnic Russian minority (about 17-18% in the South and east, and the Russian Navy has it's Black Sea base in Sebastopol) so there is an option of a proxy civil war to split the place in two, or at least give effective control of the Crimea to the Russians.
Of course the could turn the gas off in winter like they did in Jan 2006, and maybe combine a gas strike with a trade war as a way of punishing Poland for accepting the US missiles plan. The US will sell more weapons, push for rapid membership of NATO for Georgia, want to put US bases in Georgia to 'prevent Russian aggression towards the civilians' (the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline) and meanwhile taxpayers money will be diverted from schools and hospitals and into the coffers of Halliburton, Northrop Grumann,Lockheed Martin, etc.
"There were Georgian tanks on each street," said Givi Tsekhov, who was walking in front of his apartment building. "But then the Russians came."
Does that not prove that the Georgian's initiated this?
""For every building charred by explosions - the Georgians are accused of using multiple rocket launcher systems - there were others on tree-lined streets that looked untouched.""
YOU COULD SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT NEW ORLEANS!!!
I agree totally with PURVIS AMES from above...
"Uh, let's do that math. Does that mean that one out of two buildings was blown up? Who is the idiot who wrote this article?"
This article is absurd.
Jaguara August 19th, 2008 9:38 am
"This article is absurd."
The very discussion of this non-sense is absurd. There is no doubt on mine and many more people minds that the whole episode is part of big plan to remove the last obstacle to control planet; nothing less. Timing betray the side benefit: to put McKain into placeholder; to raise "patriotic" madness before elections and revitilized new Cold War, preferably the Hot one. How can one justified supersonic jetfighters to fight OBL somewhere in cave? With Russia as new Goliaph our crazies may take another $1 Trillion on military spending. Few thousand dead people? It's cheap!
What I cannot understand is how people on this site and Jon Stuart do not see it.
Russia should no longer try to appease US/NATO imperialism Article at http://www.notmytribe.com/2008/russia-should-no-longer-try-to-appease-usnato-imperialism-84300.html