Soeharto

You say: "you come across as a dyed-in-the-wool Moaning Minnie, picking on people with foreign sounding names, humourless, unimaginative, ersatz-progressive, fantasizing about how whinging on CD..."

Care to explain how this is a constructive contribution to the discussion?

I have the impression - please relieve my mind if I'm wrong - that the Indonesian people have not been blessed by a peaceful existence, in which what we refer to as civil rights, were respected...

"invasion of East Timor, and the subsequent 24-year occupation, resulted in an estimated minimum of 102,800 deaths. -- estimates of Suharto family embezzlement range from US$1.5 billion and US$35 billion [Wikipedia - Soeharto]

Now you, or family members, may have suffered under these events. I think everyone here would feel sympathetic in that case.

But some of us are sworn to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Our current concern is to prevent the expansion here of the conditions which your people had to endure and to put an end to the slaughter and destruction the current regime here is carrying out.

If you have something to contribute, it would be welcome. Otherwise just leave it to us to do as best we can.

Sorry about the name comment. It was ignorant. But your posts are not very constructive or informative.

"jclientelle August 14th, 2008 1:28 pm. Soeharto - why the name of a murderous dictator? What DO you stand for?"

There are thousands of people here in Indonesia called Soeharto. It's a common name. You simply couldn't be any more superficial in your retort. Superficial, puffed-up, fulminating, irrelevant.

Well folks, WE need to round up all the piece of shit Neocons, and their enablers NOW! Every damn one of em! The day will come, and these bastards will need all the paid-for protection available out there. Shitwater USA is just the tip of the Iceberg folks. The WAR is on, and these pricks want to violate the Constitution little by little.... whittling at our Nation. George Bush and the Neocns HATE you, and your damn forsaken freedoms! Get that through your heads! Bush is a piece of shit Neocon!

Eevery one of these people who enable, and have actually followed orders to enforce these "free speech zones are ALL Traitors! You need to find out who they all are,,,,,,

Soeharto - why the name of a murderous dictator? What DO you stand for?

The very idea that Democratic Party and their voters are any threat to what is going on in the U.S. is laughable. So many people who post here are confused, puffed up, impotent, and suffering from delusions of relevance.

jclientelle

I was thinking more about supplementing my $1,500.00 per month prescription cost.

Just another example of the U.S. Police State we now live in.

Anybody heard about the 24 hour curfew placed on a "drug" neigborhood in Arkansas?

These pens are in China, right?

Very strange how the news indulges in prolonged lamentations about political repression in China. When I hear the reports about restrictions on demonstrations, for example, they seem about the same as what we have here: You must get written permission from police, you cannot move beyond a certain restricted zone, you can be picked up and held without charges for being in the wrong place at the wrong time etc. etc.

It is good for our national consciousness that one news station in Denver published an image of what is planned. Or is it intended to scare people away from protests?? Better plan some bathroom facilities for us older protesters or else it will be a mess. BTW, some of are awaiting a settlement of $15,000 or more (depending on injury) each for illegal arrest during a New York protest. If we keep it up, it could be a good way to supplement retirement!!!

What are the facilities like at the Republican Convention? Inquiring minds want to know.

As a CODEPINK convention attendee, I am one of those "protesters" who might end up (pun intended) there. Wish me luck!

I'm not sure being held in what wouldn't pass muster as an animal shelter is any worse than the main attraction, seeing an erstwhile progressive mutated into a neocon. Both will cause considerable distress to anyone concerned about our country's--and the world's--future. Obama is still far preferable to McCain, so I strongly support him, but with considerable misgivings and reservations nowadays.

Defund the police. Talk to your city council and work to starve local law enforcement of funds.

Which is worse: 1) an over-funded police force that doesn't follow the Constitution and prepares to suppress speech with cages, or 2) a poorly funded police force that only has the time and resources to address real emergencies?

No donut. This is a bad cop situation before it gets bad.

A poster above is correct about the Dems needing to be told to ease off on the oppression. Unfortunately, the Dems are behind the police swarm. It was that way in full force at the 2000 DNC in Los Angeles, where cops either equaled or outnumbered the protesters.

And all of this is being put in place to "defend" a prescripted event where there will be no debate. Nice.

USAn - Remember the innocent black lady who was just waiting for a bus several blocks away from the 'Battle in Seattle' when she was jumped and beaten to the ground by plain clothes police?

I guess she was guilty of being slightly affluent while black, or being uppity or something...

And would anyone like to bet when the police finally get around to checking out the background of the guy who gunned down the Dem party worker in cold blood, he will be revealed to be a lifelong Repub and Rush Limbaugh 'ditto-head'?

Samson,

The technology is beside the point, it is the politics. The age of enlightenment never came to China - they are a profoundly undemocratic state. So, China is well-positioned to provide the "good example" the capitalist elites need to dismantle the always annoying principles of the enlightenment.

Attacking China does not mean I'm defending the politics of the US. Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

MargoMenconi,

Please spend some time researching the the abuse of protesters at the 2000 RNC convention in Philadelphia. Protesters were held hog-tied (right wrist handcuffed to left ankle) in cages for well over 24 hours in severe pain. Many were forced to urinate in their pants.

There is NOTHING new about this - it has been going on since at least Seattle in '99 - but back then you Bill Clinton-loving liberals were all approving it, because it was just a bunch of dirty anarchists protesting "free trade". Well, first they came for the anarchists, now they will come for you.

Not to worry Blackwater USA, there will always be work created here if you get kicked out of Iraq (and orher countries).

Uuummmmm, I wonder who built this prison, Halliburton? KBR?
It was reported sometime ago that prisons were being built around the country in the guise of preparing for mass influxs of immigrants into this country. Some of the "CLOSED" US airbases have been remodeled into prisons. Word is some are already staffed.

With this present admin., we are not very far from BAGRAM in Afghanistan, Abu GHRAIB in Iraq, or GUANTANAMO in CUBA, happening right here in these United States.

Zeig Heil! I wonder if this facility is by the railrail tracks for the cattlecars to pick up the overflow? Yes, it does and NE Denver is right where the railyards are at. That means the new Dachau must be near the Kansas border!

Margo - Gee. Which would you rather do? Piss on the floor or be water-boarded?

They don't even get restrooms?!! How long do they plan to keep people here? Are they supposed to sleep on the floor? How about brushing your teeth; is that allowed?

This is terrible. Based on sanitation issues alone I think protesters' lawyers (NLG, etc.) should be planning arguments against such inhumane treatmen

Our first concentration camp to go into operation - what an accomplishment! Don't you know Uncle Dicky is PROUD!

It's truly amazing that any one of our sanctimonious
"leaders" has the gall to describe the USA as "free" or "freedom loving." All I can see is the noose of our police state slowly strangling free expression of any kind.
With a compliant MSM pandering to the PTB, all Americans can get is a highly distorted view of reality. The "free speech zones" are a violation of our Constitutional right to seek redress of our grievances and are an abomination in any country describing itself as "free."

... just wondering...will the guards at this 'holding facility' be armed with Tasers?

jlocke123...it all depends on what you call "proper". I suspect that the folks who truly run this country think the vote counts are VERY proper!

See the related CD article on the police denying a welfare recipient civil rights group access to demonstrate near the Republican Party convention.

I wonder if the Halliburton/KBR camps will handle the overflow?

JBPM writes @ August 13th, 2008 5:28 pm

"I saw this coming over a decade ago when the US gave the PRC Most Favored Nation trade status under Clinton. The excuse given then was that "free trade" would make China "free" like the US. And now, ten-plus years later, our freedom does look the same as that experienced in China. Go figure."

With ya all the way, bro. This was the template cut for us under Raygun (w/Poppy Bush, Cheney and Rummy just offstage), a gangster-capitalist economy and a Stalinist state apparatus. China's "communist?" My a$$...

"George Orwell. Paging Mr. George Orwell."

"Will Mr. George Orwell please use the nearest Authority phone."

"George Orwell. Paging Mr. George Orwell."

FAKEDEMOCRACY

"Actually, this is a worldwide trend, with China leading the way. I believe we are moving into post democracy/post enlightenment era, where those inaleanable human rights of Locke, Rouseau, and Jefferson, so tidily summarized in the Bill of rights, will be rendered as quaint as the George Mason's ruffed collar."

I saw this coming over a decade ago when the US gave the PRC Most Favored Nation trade status under Clinton. The excuse given then was that "free trade" would make China "free" like the US. And now, ten-plus years later, our freedom does look the same as that experienced in China. Go figure.

It also dawned on me last night as I was mowing the lawn (with my push mower, no less!) that it was no coincidence that slavery was outlawed at around the same time that the Industrial Revolution developed a good head of steam. After all, who needs people you have to feed and clothe in perpetuity when you can just tap an oil well and get the labor of thousands of slaves in each barrel? Was the moral awakening that led to the abolition of slavery genuine or was it merely an epiphenomenon of our discovery of cheap fossil fuel energy? I'm afraid we are going to find out the answer to that question as the 21st century unfolds.

Now all they need to do is sell this to the American people as the next generation of big box store, and folks will line up at midnight to be incarcerated for the big Grand Opening! Sweet!

Uh, close USAn, but China is following the US. It was a bunch of US companies that have been developing surveilence techs that sold them to China for the games.

matti .... don't know where you've been sleeping the last decade or so, but in NYC during the 2004 Rethug convention, all it took to be arrested was to be standing peacefully on the wrong sidewalk. You don't have to be either violent or committing any crime to be arrested. Or there's the 2000 Rethug convention where some organizers were arrested for walking down the street talking on a cell phone and given million dollar bail amounts.

In NYC, I think some 2000 people were arrested. Many were never charged. Many who were charged had their cases dropped if they didn't plead guilty because the police had zero evidence of crimes being committed. I think their overall conviction rate was like 2%, and that includes those who pled guilty not to be tied up in a long court process.

Law enforcement...private property rights....keep the lockup a secret...free speech zones

oh yeah this is funny and if you're not laughing hard enough...stun guns

who writes this stuff certainly not those who wrote the Constitution but those who ignor or outright break with it

time to awaken or is this just so much fun that we have to see it played out??????maybe sheeople is to much credit

Actually, this is a worldwide trend, with China leading the way. I believe we are moving into post democracy/post enlightenment era, where those inaleanable human rights of Locke, Rouseau, and Jefferson, so tidily summarized in the Bill of rights, will be rendered as quaint as the George Mason's ruffed collar.

In place of human rights, only the rights of global finance - green pieces of paper - more accurately, their electronic equivalants, and corporatre personhood will be recognized. Humans will be free to sell their labor and shop and consume the hight-tech equivalent of bread and circuses. Most poeple I meet anymore, I-Pod in hand, wonder what the big deal is about free speech - who cares? And the Fourth Amendment? Doesn't worrying about being spied on mean you are guilty of something?

The only one they worry about is the Second Amendment - gotta have that gun so you can do your patriotoc part, when the time comes, to clear the country of official state enemies, poor people, and other undesirables.

Eliminate everyone who is running this fake democracy now.

No need to lecture demonstrators about the use of violent tactics. That will be provided by government agents and provocateurs.

"They hate our freedoms." Gee, George W. was right after all! Whoops, wrong country.

This is foreshadowing of what will be commonplace in the next few years. The US is proving to the world that it has become a full-fledged police state. Sieg heil!

matti,

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Even if we participate in peaceful sit-ins in the street, the cops will STILL brutalize us and the media will STILL portray us as being "violent". Been there done that.

And this detention center looks just like the free speech zone itself - at least the oneat the last convention in Boston. Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones

Double post.

I think it would be hilarious -and effective in getting media attention- if the "protesters" would organize enough so that only ONE GUY would get arrested.

Imagine the pictures of this whole, giant, Nazi prison warehouse, and in the middle of it ONE GUY sitting "indian-style" on the floor calmly humming to himself or something.

I know it won't happen because the "protesters" are not some kind of monolithic group, but rather many different groups with many different intentions.

But still it would be SO DAMNED FUNNY.

On a serious note, I urge all of those Citizens who are planning to be "in the streets" during the Dem Convention to consider NOT practicing law-breaking civil disobediance.

This kind of "arrest us then" action has been completely co-opted by the Elite and their attack poodles, the Police. The TV and newspapers will refer to the "violence" of it without noting that almost all the violence was perpatrated by the Police. The Dem bigwigs inside will make short speeches on the glories of our right to "free speech" and how that is "what makes America (sic) great" while ignoring the treatment of those who attempt to speak freely and the fact that "America" is hardly unique in allowing dissent. A few people watching all of this at home on TV after their workday may identify with the "protesters" being arrested, a few more may sympathize and become uncomfortable with where things are going in this country, but many more will wonder why the "protesters" went out of their way to get arrested and cause trouble when the very next thing they see is footage of peaceful rallies and speeches with the reporter saying "...at this gathering, many activists say that those causing violence are only a small minority...".

To repeat:

THIS TACTIC IS NO LONGER EFFECTIVE AND SHOULD NOT BE EMPLOYED.

Have Fun,

-matti.

It's time to call the UnDemocratic Party out for having responsiblity in the policing of their convention. We shouldn't allow them to just hide behind the police, as it is their 'private event' (as the police will claim it is), while they plan stun guns and cages for America's patriotic dissidents.

After all, the police always say they are merely enforcing private property rights when they publicly police these events. That was the claim they had when they arrested 2 activists a few weeks back at the Colorado State Dermocratic Party Convention.... for trespassing!

This is not exactly on point, but in New York City the government is proposing to install systems that will record the license plate of every car coming into the city on highway, tunnel or bridge. They will keep the records for one month, they say. This is - ta da - to combat terrorism at the site of the new World Trade Center, should that ever be completed. (For those outside NY rebuilding the WTC has been mired in squabbles between the property owners, the victims' families etc. - a disgusting clash between greed and mourning.)

Obviously the program will yield a massive record of everyone's habits and whereabouts that could be applied to any commercial or political use. How it will prevent terrorism, it is hard for me to figure out. Who could possibly look at the millions of photographic or digital records produced every day in time to prevent anything? Who will figure out whether Samir is driving in to his job in software support or to plant a bomb? Remember, those who were driving the planes that attacked the WTC did not care about being caught later, as they planned to die.

WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING though is that the local news interviewed "people on the street" and every one of them said that they endorsed ANY program or measure that would prevent a terrorist attack. I saw interviews only with middle aged white males driving cars, so it was a strange demographic for New York. My experience is that other groups would be more skeptical of the motivation and efficacy of such a program.

How can we convince people that giving up the right to go about one's business without Big Brother tracking everything is not necessary for safety?

The photo doesn't show the part of the facility where the incarcerated would be formally charged with anything.

I mean, if people are arrested and incarcerated, there are charges of some kind...aren't there?

Tuck your lock picks and zip tie cutters into your clothing..as well as mini cameras...and a remember...YOU PAID FOR ALL OF THIS!

It looks like the same set up as Pier 57 during the 2004 RNC minus the razor wire. I can imagine all the speeches at the DNC and RNC about "freedom" while this is going on...

Will they squeeze 80 people in a single cage? If an organization were to plan to hold hundreds of dogs in those cages, the Humane Society would have to get involved.

Where will the arrested sit or sleep in the many hours they will probably be held? Will the port-a-potties have hand washing stations? Are there hazardous substances on the floor and in the air? What kind of warehouse was this?

I guess it has always been unhealthy to practice free speech and civil disobedience. Many around the world and here in the US are locked up in less than humane conditions and subjected to all kinds of harm. This stuff happens to people who have not even been convicted of anything.

Strength and healing to those heading to the streets of Denver! The world we are working for has no need for places like this.

Where are the ovens?

This article is so biased!

Why, there's no mention of the plans to serve lemon chicken and two kinds of fruit!

Actually, THREE kinds of fruit, if you count the lemon in the chicken!

Plus free electroshock therapy for the asking-- it's making a comeback, you know.

McBush has won!

and AT&T logos?

It is getting down to the nitty gritty.
Rush and those who want McCain will be wanting riots in Denver.
Rush won't be arrested though. Just the "Real Left".

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w&feature=email

"We want to make sure we got our game plan set . . . ."

It's been set for quite some time.

No no no - it's China that doesn't allow dissent. This must be in Peking.

"Inside are dozens are metal cages. They are made out of chain link fence material and topped by rolls of barbed wire."

Why do I get the impression that the US government puts more planning into rounding up protesters than it puts into counting the votes properly?

Change (Chains) We Can Belive In.

Gee,

I wounder what the holding facility will be like at the RNC?

Brave New World, here we come...

Nice photo of the inviting place where democacy is housed. I am also happy to know our country is no longer regarded as free speech nation and has been replaced by those fenced-off, remote and restricted "free speech zones" in which those less than desireable "people of freedom" will be herded as they try to prevent the lock-step march of folly from going forth.

Protesters will be given government issued orange jumpsuits, held in stress positions, forced to listen to loud death metal rock, forced to endure sleep deprivation, denied food and water, prevented from seeing a lawyer, and finally water boarded to ensure they aren't al Qaeda operatives.

Benches will be supplied for Democratic Party dignitaries who may want to watch before they head out to their corporate cocktail parties, dinners and shows.

I wish we could forgo the cynicism and already hackneyed orwell references, accepting that herding, concentration camps, big brother technology and misinformation IS now the norm, perhaps we can move to do something about it. cynicism is obedience.

"Sorry about the name comment. It was ignorant. But your posts are not very constructive or informative."

And yet, with 58 comments already posted, you felt the need to respond, adolescently & pompously. Well, there you have it. I am informing you - in the sincere hope that it is a constructive thing in your lamentable "commentariat" life and in the the everyday life of CommonDreams - that you come across as a dyed-in-the-wool Moaning Minnie, picking on people with foreign sounding names, humourless, unimaginative, ersatz-progressive, fantasizing about how whinging on CD is somehow going to get you locked up in a concentration camp. Forgive we non-Americans if we dismiss you all (...all you hysterical and narcissistic American Progressives)... as, quite frankly, and literally, useless and irrelevant.

What? You really reckon you are on the 'front line' of all this?

Grow up!