quoted directly from the Missile Defense Agency Website, http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/html/faq.html

"The fundamental objective of the Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) program is to develop the capability to defend forces and territories of the United States, its allies and friends against all classes and ranges of ballistic missile threats.

Why are MDA development activities divided into boost, midcourse and terminal segments?

All ballistic missiles share a fundamental characteristic- they follow a trajectory that includes three flight phases - boost, midcourse and terminal. By fielding a layered defense system and attacking the missile in all phases of flight, we exploit opportunities that increase the advantage of missile defense systems and complicate an aggressor's plans.

What is the Airborne Laser?

The Airborne Laser, or ABL, is a powerful laser aboard a modified Boeing 747 that destroys ballistic missiles by heating them until they fail structurally. The megawatt-class laser is expected to deposit lethal amounts of energy on missiles hundreds of miles from the airplane.

Sea-Based Midcourse:

What was the purpose of June 2006 Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense Flight Test?

FTM-10 test objectives included evaluation of: the ability to intercept a medium range separating ballistic missile in its midcourse phase of flight and the system-level integration of the Ballistic Missile Defense System (BMDS).

Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) is an element of the Ballistic Missile Defense System (BMDS). Aegis BMD leverages and builds on capabilities inherent in the Aegis Weapon System (AWS) and the Standard Missile (SM), currently deployed on both Aegis cruisers and destroyers.

Will the SM-3 missile be available for international sale?

Yes. Japan is our first ally to procure Aegis BMD and SM-3 missiles. The first Aegis BMD installation in the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force is scheduled for late 2007.

Other prospective international participants include:

The Joint United States and Australia MOU was signed July 2004 and provides a 25 year framework for cooperation on missile defense.

The Joint United States/United Kingdom MOU was signed in 2003, and a U.S./UK Joint Study on potential Type 45 DDG BMD capability was initiated in 2006.

The U.S. has provided The Netherlands Pricing & Availability data to participate in a 2006 TRACEX event. In addition, initial discussions are underway to assess the capability of Dutch systems BMD capability and may lead to integration of SM-3 onto Dutch SMART-L/APARS equipped ships.

Germany has a BMD Liaison Officer working with the Aegis BMD staff to develop an understanding of BMD-related issues.

High level discussions have taken place to provide South Korea and Aegis BMD capability on their KDX-III Class Aegis Destroyers."

Well isn't it nice they got to roll out their new war in August instead of September? See? New products can be rolled out in summer, its all about the timing.

Realist, answer the question: Does the neocon desire to expand NATO into any country that borders Russia threaten Russia?

I don't give me that drivel about these former soviet states are being pushed into a corner and NATO is their only hope. Are you advocating full spectrum dominance?

And concerning your position on missile defense... you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Obviously you are quiet unfamiliar with the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972. Probably you have never read the treaty... only the neocon talking propaganda memos.

You also have no clue concerning the nature of modern missile defense systems which aim to shoot down Russian missiles during their launch phase, before the Multiple Independently targetable Reentry Vehicle nuclear warheads can be deployed to defeat such a missile defense system.

You also demonstrate zero awareness that these modern 'launch phase shoot down' missile defense systems must be located geographically close to the launch origin... thereby requiring NATO expansion to encircle in close proximity the main nuclear threat, Russia.

The missile defense shield cannot be used offensivly in any way, you can't mount a nuclear warhead on an interceptor missle. Said defense shield also does not have NEARLY enough capability to reduce a russian first strike. The majority of russian missiles would not even pass within range of it. Russia knows this just as well as anyone else.

I'm also curious as to the argument that the US is "surrounding" Russia. Let's look at this logically Georgia has been under assault for the past year by russian backed militants in south osssetia. Ukraine's president who a target for assassination by russia not once but twice. Both countries have been threatened by Russia on numerous occaisons including Putin's remarks that Ukraine is "not really a country." Why do you think eastern european nations constantly express interest in joining NATO? Why do you think the countries of Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and Poland sent representitives to Georgia as soon as it was invaded? They know the threat russia poses, they know that russia will never attack any country that is a part of NATO. Russia has pushed these nations into a corner and joining NATO is their only way out.

hey realist,

why do you think the neocons are not responsible for this?

Does putting a first strike weapon such as missile defense into a country that borders Russia threaten Russia?

Does the neocon desire to expand NATO into a country that borders Russia threaten Russia?

Is Georgia located in Western Europe... say closer to Britian, or Eastern Europe... say closer to Russia?

How much money has the US government giving to Georgia lately?

Does US financial support of an anti Russian government in a former Russian state threaten Russia?

If Iran fires a nuclear missile at western europe, will it pass over Poland?

Can a Polish based US first strike missile defense weapon intercept an Iranian missile?

How many nuclear missiles does Iran have?

How many nuclear missiles does Russia have?

If Russia fires a missile at western Europe, will it pass over Poland?

Can a Polish based US first strike missile defense weapon intercept a Russian missile?

Which country has 16,000 nuclear missiles, Russia or Iran?

Which country has 0 nuclear missiles, Russia or Iran?

If you where building a first strike missile defense weapon system, would you aim it at a country with 16,000 missiles, or a country with 0 missiles?

If one signatory country such as the US revokes the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty and Strategic Arms Reduction Treaties I and II, might that threaten the other primary signatory, Russia?

Does the US really need to develope new Star Wars type weapon systems now that the Cold War is supposably over?

Does the US's continued development of these Cold War technologies and concepts threaten Russia?

What notable accomplishments of conflict resolution and peace can you attribute to neocon the (il)legacy?

This entire discussion has long passed sensibility and now reached the point of hilarity. People are actually giving more credit to STATE-RUN media organizations like Russia Today then news networks like CNN. In russia reporters who disagree with the establishment get killed, the same cannot be said for western media stations. Biased or not our media reports will trump russian state run propaganda anyday. I find it funny how no one noticed that Russia claimed 2,000 civillians were killed by Georgia on the first day. Now anyone who has ever seen a natural disaster knows it takes days to get an accurate death toll even when only a few people may be involved. Now for larger events involving thousands ( 9/11, katrina, etc) any accurate body count inside of a week is next to impossible. Yet here the russians pull the number 2,000 right out of their ass on the first day, even when fewer then said amount of bodies have been recovered by the UN and other independent organizations. Of course such recovering is difficult when south ossetian paramilitaries hijack UN vehicles as russian soldiers sit idly by.

Purvis Ames
You never seem to read anything i write so this is probably a waste. Again, russia has spent the past year arming south ossetian paramilitaries and launching attacks against the georgian border. Russia already had a 145 vehicle convoy on the way to South Ossetia BEFORE the georgians invaded. The whole confrontation was provoked and anticipated. Thousands of russian soldiers swarming over the border instantly after the georgian attack...this is the hallmark of a military prepared to invade (the same russian military that engaged in a mock invasion on July 7, call it a dress rehersal).

In closing i say, Purvis why is it so hard for you to realize the neocons aren't responsible for EVERY SINGLE problem the world has? Why is it so hard to realize that other countries(besides america) are responsible for pain and suffering? Perhaps you truly beilive russia is the innocent victim in this conflict and big,scary, georgia is really responsible for all this. If this is so then i pity you. For the bubble you live in is anything but accurate of the world we live in.

A demonstration of just how insane the BushCo. neocon team is.... was the opposite position taken by the other still somewhat sensible European NATO members who steadfastly refused to accept Georgian as a NATO member two months ago, much to BushCo's chagrin.

Anyone who tries to advocate for turning a former Soviet state into a NATO member with some drummed up hypothetical common interests with far away western nations, might as well be trying to sell you water as gasoline. Oh wait, these idiots are doing that too.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3580136,00.html

Here is a link to an update on what's happening in Georgia from "Real News":

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2057

Not quite accurate please see my posts on WaPo (coiaorguk)

vilify Russia was the intent to get thru more sanctions on Iran while China is impotent hosting the Olympic games.

Please note the main stream press as predicted vilified Russia with a picture of injured children in Georgia when several years ago they refused to print injured and maimed children in Iraq hit by cluster bombs!

Sorry guys - the author's main point of contention seems rather far fetched. Perhaps he should write the scripts for Oliver Stone and Michael Moore movies instead.

Just goes to show that anyone can write anything on the internet ...

The Realist

Get real. Georgia invaded South Ossetia. Period. Everything else you have to say is complete nonsense because it is based on a fallacy.

Insane: All of them and McCain is probably the looniest of them all but he did say that there would be many more wars. Makes one wonder just what is afloat with these criminals other than world war 111 and complete devastation. People still have the right to remove incompetent leaders so maybe that's our only recourse. The problem is how with all these high tech war machines and the military and police politically dumb.

Realist-
It cannot be a Russian ploy to seize the pipeline---because first Georgia took the action of invading South Ossetia. Scheer could very well be right.

How can people honestly beilive america started this war for oil? Reality check, we have been allies with georgia since 2003, we already had acess to all their oil, this lastest war is only a russian ploy to seize the pipline that connects central asia with turkey. How hard is it to understand that america isn't the only country that unjustly invades others. If america was in russia's place im sure this website would fill with people defending the plight of georgia. They would brush aside any evidence of ethnic cleansing and bring down the hammer on what they saw as blatant imperialism. After all thats what they did with Iraq...

Candy Rice tells Russia what to do:
http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/106100-1/

Excerpt: Rice said Moscow is harming its standing in the world and eligibility for global clubs whose eligibility depends on responsible behavior, but she made no explicit threats about U.S. retaliation.

"This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten its neighbors, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it," Rice said. "Things have changed." (now it's America's turn)

Neo-con election ploy, you say?

First Georgian refugees arrive safely

An anxious crowd gathered at the arrivals area inside Ben-Gurion Airport on Sunday night as a flight from Tbilisi was about to arrive carrying a load of Georgians and Israelis who had made it out of the war zone.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104259900&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Also:

In 2008, Jewish Georgian aliyah to Israel increased as a result of the War in South Ossetia. [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Jews

CptPicard

As you claim to be Finnish, you might understand the plight of the South Ossetians. After the Bolsheviks took power, Finland broke off from Russian domination and remained independent until Stalin tried to reclaim the former territory. He failed. Does that sound as familiar as yesterday's news?

One more thing you don't understand. NATO doesn't want Georgia. Antagonizing the Russians will only insure a massive cut-off of energy (natural gas in particular) to Western Europe. Only Cheney and his sock puppet Baby Caligula Bush have advocated this lunacy. Oh, wait, I forgot the Israelis. Before you post again, please educate yourself on the subject.

Will someone please ask McInane if he thinks Saakashvili made a foolish mistake by initiating hostilities? His answer would be a good indication of accuracy of Robert Scheer's thesis, which, truth be told, does not sound very far fetched.

Shrub's "humanitarian" assistance to Georgia is a laugh. His humanitarian assistance to Iraq was to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and make millions refugees.
As for the territorial integrity of Georgia, appears that is worth about as much as the integrity of Serbian territory
called Kosovo. Bush is an idiot. How can we as Americans have been duped so badly?? If you are unhappy with Bush, you will be terrified with McCain. Better think about it before you vote for Surge McBomb.

Samson...

"So, a better example than Mexico would be a US State that breaks off, declares its independence, then suddenly allies itself with China or Russia or maybe the dreaded Venezuelans."

If McCain wins, or if GWB refuses to leave, I think Vermont and the rest of New England might just consider it!

Captain...

"As things stand, they are just making use of the age old tactic of supporting an insurgency and then invading with a "peacekeeping" pretext."

South Ossetta is not in a state of insurgency. They have been in a state of de facto autonomy for 15 years! The only thing missing was recognition from the West, which only grants such a thing when it is in their interest to (like Kosovo). We are still dominated by Cold War mentality.

I do agree that Georgia can join NATO, even though it is a provocation...just like building missile defences on a countries border (but those are only for anti-terrorism!). The problem here is that the two "rebel" provinces should have been granted "official" independance 15 years ago...but they have still had "de facto" independance.

Which raises the question, why do we have the decision of who is independant or not...isn't that the whole premise of self-determination?

Jagauara

To GwNorth. I like your analogy, but it would be more accurate if you instead used "New Mexico" as your example. This whole region was a part of the czar's empire and a part of the Soviet Union. Josef Stalin was a 'Georgian' for instance. So, a better example than Mexico would be a US State that breaks off, declares its independence, then suddenly allies itself with China or Russia or maybe the dreaded Venezuelans.

Ossetia is a republic, not a region, and the USA is no democracy, not even in the minimal sense of its form of government, which is totatalitarian with its concentration camp for pro democracy groups at the Democratic National Convention, which likely will be the same for other big business owned party's convention.

GW North - I agree with what you're saying. it's cause and effect, and the US has been extremely aggressive with Russia (Nato expanison, missle defense). I don't know all the details on the Russian side, but how on earth can anyone be talking about bringing Georgia into NATO? Good grief, Stalin was from Georgia, and both countries have a very long history with each other. that is not our business.

When I talk to friends who are from former Soviet states, they tell me they are Russian, because that's the culture. They also tell me they are American (now) but also Russian, and then we talk about how ordinary people just want to get along. We talk about how nationalism is the cancer in many countries (including the US).

Ignorance is our biggest challenge, not just the greedy, slimy politicians who all should be put in jail whenever they order any bombings, killings, torture, etc. But our own ignorance that we can't see, obviously. Humans greatest challenge with so much violence (speach, thoughts, actions, even emails).

Wait a minute. Hold the Presses!!! Russia is still a threat? We still have to deal forcefully with Russia? I thought our hero Ronald Reagan permanantly put Russia's lights out way back in the 80s. I mean I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that "if it weren't for Reagan we'd all be speaking Russian now." At least I've been told that ad nauseum. What are the conservatives going to do about this dilema? They can't go around boasting about how secure we are from the Red Menace anymore, thanks to Ronald Reagan. Oh well, I guess they can blame it on Clinton.

robinea August 13th, 2008 5:09 pm

"Notice Germany was opposed to the US push to get Georgia into NATO.

Why doesn't Obama drop that saber rattling Richard Holbrooke - who sounds just as militaristic as McCain's puppet-master, Scheunemann?"

A few years ago, Richard Holbrooke was chomping at the bit to get Ukraine into NATO. Both major parties are dominated by unreconstructed Cold Warriors. They see the demise of the USSR as an opportunity to take advantage of Russian weakness, not as an opportunity to end the Cold War. Vote Green to break the bipartisan stranglehold on our foreign policy.

CptPicard

While you make valid points I must take exception to the claim that were Georgia to join NATO it really none of Russians business. NATO was formed as an alliance against The old USSR (Read Russia) and having Georgia join NATO is clearly provocative.

I can tell you for a certainity that if Mexico Joined The SCO and China and Russian poured troops and munitions and Nuclear weapons into Mexico, the United States would see it as an act of war.

They would very much make such an action their business.

It would lead to a NUCLEAR war just as the Cuban Missile crisis almost lead there. Remember that in the Cuban Missile crisis, the United States was putting Nuclear weapons Into Turkey, right on The old USSRS doorstep and The old USSR felt that they should be allowed to reply in kind.

The reason so many are slamming America here is because of that blatant and obvious hypocrisy.

Do you not feel that if Russia or China, signed a Miltary agreement with Mexixo and then poured troops into that country, put up a missile shield and stationed all maner of Nuclear weapons there, that the United States would not act exactly in the same manner?

NATO has worn out its usefulness. It was designed as an alliance in case of a war on what is now Russia. Clearly adding to NATO with ex Soviet States and arming these same states, is a provocation.

It is a deliberate provocation and it not an accident.

Living in Europe you should recognize where these alliances tend to lead. WW1 was a war launched that spread from a local incident in a rump state bordering on the Austro Hungarian Empire to engulf the entire Continent in mindless violence as each side moved in to prop up an ally.

WW11 spread to engulf the world as one ally expanded the war to another.

NATOS expansion into the old Russian states, the Baltics, the Ukraine and the like will lead to war and it absolutely idiotic for the West to try and expand NATO without addressing Russian concerns.

This IS the Grand Chessboard where the strategy Brezinski outlined, was to surround Russia with client states, promote ethnic strife inside that country via proxy and oversee the breakup of the Russian State. This so America could gain strategic control of the region.

Russian leaders have read that book. They know exactly what America is up to and are responding in the only manner they see as viable.

Russia did not of a sudden decide to do this. They warned and pleaded with the Western states to pay attention to their concerns and were ignored.

PK

Again, it goes against the interests of Russia for any former Soviet Union nation to join NATO. Period. Right or wrong, that is the policy of Russia and Russia obviously will strictly enforce this. The same as if Estonia wants to join NATO or Belarus or any other former Soviet Union nation. No nation on Earth should ever be nasty to the Russians now should they? What nations are helping to defend Georgia right now? Is Finland?

agitkid,

I simply do not understand why exactly Georgian sovereignty should be in any sense diminished by this situation, no matter what interests the US may for example have in the region. In particular, if Georgian and US interests coincide, it should be perfectly within Georgia's rights to, say, enter NATO and it's none of Russia's business.

Whatever issues South Ossetia may have within Georgia are to be handled in a completely different way to what Russians are doing. As things stand, they are just making use of the age old tactic of supporting an insurgency and then invading with a "peacekeeping" pretext.

IMO your apologetics for Russia relies on irrelevant points about Georgia doing things Russia doesn't like. I dislike your neocons and criticized the Iraq war just as much as I am going to criticize Russian actions here. I get the feeling that for a lot of people here a domestic politics angle dominates a bit too much. If this was the USA doing some "peacekeeping" in South America, for example, you would probably take the opposite position. It's strange, and a little scary.

Karlof... trust me, being in a country that ended on the Soviet side of the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact, I KNOW... that's why a lot of people around Russia are pretty freaked out by the idea that we're again just supposed to submit to the Russians so that we don't piss them off by existing or by seeking any kind of co-operation that increases leverage with regards to Russia...

So what next? Russia going into Estonia to peace-keep there and safeguard the Estonian-Russian minority when they try to burn down the house again when they feel slighted by Estonians suggesting that they were violently occupied in WW2? And you guys preaching to them that "see, you shouldn't be so nasty to the Russians"? :)

...or a distraction from the opening...

My take on this entire situation is that it's a distraction for the opening of the 'Iran War'.

Team Bush bungled big time on the Georgia fiasco

Now our AIPAC candidates, especially military 'hero' McCane, want to lead our young men into the endless minefield of the Caucauses. The mindlessly greedy and military men never see the trap but Obomba should know better.

Is there no American Hero that can avoid leading us into war? Peace is always far more profitable.

First off, who says that Scheunemann has stopped his lobbying? Maybe "officially " he has since he's no longer a part of his K Street firm (technically), but that hardly tells the whole story - - especially with a campaign organiztion as full of lobbyists as McBush's! But more importantly, this is probably just one of the earliest action in a Russian response to the Cheney/Bush Administration's attempts to build a "Missile Defense Shield" that just happens to encircle the western part of Russia. Oh, and yes, who will be the next nation that the neo-cons will advocate to have join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Iraq? Afghanistan? India? Are the Russians really paranoid? What would ever give them the impression that the Cheney/Bush bunch would have anything but the highest regard for them and their "friendship"?

Bush on hearing about the invasion: "Georgia... is that a red state?"

NATO is "in its last throes if you will", so there ain't much there for Georgia to join. Those US neocons sure are sore losers.

The article is very believable.We all feel that a pr- electoral surprise is coming.If this was it , it was pretty weak and should not have any effect on the polls.The Dems are blowing the election themselves.

CptPicard,

You really are missing the point here. This provocation by Georgia was clearly backed and greenlighted by the US. The US and Israel have been providing arms and military trainers in Georgia for some time. This attack would not have happened without US backing, and is clearly related to the energy pipeline running through Georgia.

Further, it was entirely predictable that Russia would respond, but the question was how fast and how far. You also have to realize that the US has been pushing for Georgia's admission to NATO in order to force European involvement in any tensions between Russia and Georgia. As Paul Craig Roberts clearly explained today:

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08132008.html

Europe doesn't want to be drawn into a US/Isreal/Georgia quagmire when they rely so heavily on energy provided by Russia. This whole exercise is about playing a very dangerous geopolitical game that could easily involve two nuclear powers, and the neocons are crazy enough to do something like this.

So give up on this defense of Georgian sovereignty angle as it really not only misses the point, but falls directly in line with the neo-conservative propaganda that you are unwittingly (or wittingly i don't no) falling for.

And I agree, Russia is no saint here, but the provocation lies squarely on the Bush administration. I don't trust any armed state, not matter what virtues they proclaim to uphold.

The Mccain Camp NEEDS those 15 electoral votes from Georgia real bad!

I should point out to the captain that Russia is already an Empire and has been for centuries.

Now class, without googling or wikipediaing, can you tell me who Shamil was and his historical importance? But first an easy question, From which Province of the Russian Empire was Stalin from?

What should Obama do? Assuming that he really does want to change the course of empire, he could take Hillary as his running mate if she agrees to the role of being a Venus...you know motherhood,... caring and apple pie.

Waring is more a male macho thing no? He could also find someone gay to be secretary of defense... gays are not into competitive nest building right?

Perhaps he could point out the many benefactors of war and war making, in all of our states that feed on the military industrial congressional complex, while most the bill is being footed by debt mostly Asian and by an income tax that is somewhat regressive.

X Marks the New Alpha Warrior
Show me a trampy lady
and I'll show you a warrior
or a patriot or a corporate clown
who looks good in leather
and plays Chopin kinda nice
like a new age Condoleezza Rice

Show me a patriot warrior
and I'l show you a high society lady
all class and style
you'll never emulate or tramp on
Hey don't tread on me

Show me who you are with
and I'll show you who you are
or want to be
like Genghis Kahn and the conspicuous who
who are kinda stale
like carbonized babies for freedom
and pennants that don't bleed
or plunder and oil you don't need

Where in the hell does the US get off criticizing any country for invading another soverign nation? That is the height of arrogance.

99% of the time the US is the aggressor.

WE toppled democratically elected governments (Iran '53, Chile '73, Congo '60s).

WE invaded soverign nations (Iraq '03, Grenada '83, Haiti, Domincan Republic, Panama etc).

WE shot down an innocent, civilian airliner (Iran '88)without apology.

WE fought useless and needless wars (Iraq '03-present, Vietnam '59-'75).

WE propped up brutal dictators (Pinochet, Stroessner, The Shah, Saddam until '91, Bautista, Trujillo, Somoza, Both Duvaliers, Marcos, etc.).

WE force weaker nations to sign "agreements" granting immunity to US Citizens and withhold aid to thse who refuse.

WE bomb other nations on little on no provocation (Libya '86, Sudan '90s, Iraq '90s-'00s).

And we lecture other countries on their actions!?

To be honest it seems like Russia is driving home the point that NATO membership for Georgia would be a great idea.

Russia is not entitled to an empire, and therefore entering a defensive alliance is not a punishable provocation by Georgia, no matter how much the Russians would play victim.

As a matter of fact, I have not been a huge fan of the idea of Finnish membership, but the more Russia goes down this path, the more reasonable that kind of a move sounds like.

Purvis ames, nice name-calling.. :) Seriously, countries do have this thing called territorial integrity for the time being...

To all the fruitcakes here including the idiot Finn, GEORGIA INVADED SOUTH OSSETIA, a territory that voted to remain with Russia in 1991 and fought with the Georgians until they won their autonomy by treaty in 1992. Sixteen years later, with the active support of the U.S. and Israel, the Georgians launched a surprise attack which killed 2000 South Ossetian civilians. To now claim, as the fascist MSM is doing, that Russia invaded Georgia is not merely hypocritical, it is extremely dangerous. The neocon filth, Bill Kristol, etc., are now advocating WAR with Russia. Anyone who goes along with this program is an imbecile and I do mean you, CptRicard.

This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a Government and get away with it. Things have changed.

-Condoleezza Rice

A supposed Russia expert would make a quote like this? Well you know what Kindosleazy, this is also not 1968 when the USA can oh what did you say? Let me look at this quote again, "[...]occupy a capital (Baghdad) overthrow a Government (Saddam Huseein Baath party) and get way with it" either.

Things have changed. No they have not Kindosleazy. Outside nations are not allowed to use nations of former Soviet Union as pawns against Russia interests. Hope you learned your lesson USA as much as Georgia has.

One rule evidently still applies Kindosleazy: Screw with Russia you get f*****! As a Russia Historian and expert, you should know better...

The powers that be in the grand ol' US of A are doing what they've done for over 100+ years; namely, using weak and gullible countries to further the interests of the ancestors of the Monroe doctrine. The only real evolution of things has been in regard to the media. There WAS a time when there were true journalists. Now it's become trite entertainment on the surface, and designed distraction in an effort to further lobotomize the American public. And it is working better than ever. After less than one week, 95 out of every 100 Americans who are aware of the Georgia cinema (and they represent only 10% of the population) believe that Russia is experiencing deja vu delusions of grandeur, and are hell bent on invading every single post- Soviet country. The mainstream media is no longer only guilty of complicity, as it was during Vietnam. Now it is an active member of the mob. So what's a guy like Obama supposed to do- really do? Sure, he should speak out about the US and Israel's supply of arms and intelligence to Georgia for months prior to the war. But the media would only twist his statements to be anti-Semitic ravings of a crazed Howard Dean clone. If he says nothing, then he's guilty of disinterest. Of course, in my opinion, I feel that he should come out shooting- on this and so many other issues. But I'm not vying for the presidency. And so, really- what should he be saying about this? Put yourself in his position. And in that respect, also consider the odds that you might die really soon in a plane crash or from a heart attack- before you ever could get to that position of beginning to get your country back on track. Call me totally deluded, but I'd like to see him stop his bullshit, and get the attention of the nation for one hour- in REAL time. Let it ALL hang out: from the total fabrications leading to the Iraq war, to the CIA's role in the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, to the demand for an international trial of everyone from Bush and Cheney to Pelosi. But that ain't gonna happen. And so, to all of you armchair quarterbacks: what play would you call?

"Obama Also Cites NATO Membership For Georgia"…

…"Notably he (Obama), like McCain, embraces Georgia's aspirations to enter NATO — the key plank of a hawkish stand toward Russia, and a key source of Russia's anger.(Both McCain and Obama are reiterating past positions here.)"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_also_cites_NATO_membership_for_Georgia.html

"Either Obama is about real change for restoring our republic and its constitution or he is about mere window dressing for the empire-building."

It's the latter.

bottle;
Thanks for the yuck.If you had an heirloom grand piano would you invite Condi over to play a little Beethoven?

CptPicard, your misunderstanding of "why Russia's actions are getting such understanding here" may be a misunderstanding in itself. I don't really think many of the above comments are necessarily pro-Russia ...but they are anti-bullshit. A growing number of Yankees are sick of having their country led around by the nose by a handful of despicable groups - oil firms, weapons contractors, military planners, aged Cold Warriors, the zionist lobby, etc. Then, we see the guys running for President saying absurd things like: "We're all Georgians now." Bullshit! I'm not! At least not a Georgian as stupid as Saakashvili!

Even Condi Rice agrees, Saakashvili did something *really* stupid, and the result was an occupation of much of his country - maybe worse to come. Provoked or not, when you're a little country like Georgia, it's not wise to start shooting at the troops of a big country like Russia. Especially in a region that's got a huge population and a screaming urge to break away. Shall we call it a Saakashvilian error? Sure, Russia is wrong too now ...but Russia is responding to Georgia's first strike, and once those dogs of war have been let loose, that's it. Anything goes.

So, we Yankees are left wondering why our leaders are involving us in this worthless mess. Why? What the hell use is Georgia to us? Oh yes, oil ...again. So stupid it's criminal. More of the stupidity that took us to Iraq. We Yankees are very sore over this, please understand. Also understand that infinite ass-kissing by Saakashvili on CNN isn't going to help.

Like at least one of the above commentors, I am definately feeling more and more like some isolationism would be great.

When we fall, and we WILL fall, I can only hope it is like the British Empire. In that case we will just fade into a ourselves. However it is seeming more likely that we will fall like Rome. In that instance our power will become our weakness.

The fascinating thing here is how impotent the United States is in this situation.

Smaller nations should take notice of how the U.S. government will use them for their own purposes, in this case a potential NATO staging post in Eastern Europe.

But when push comes to shove, what happens? Did the Georgian president really think that he could get away with a military attack on insurgents in one of his own provinces using the distraction of the Olympic Games? How could he not have anticipated a massive (over)reaction by the Russians, using the excuse of protecting their ethnic compatriots but really showing who is the real power in the neighbourhood?

And what did he think that the U.S. would do? Send in the marines to battle the Russians? Fat chance not with that oil at risk. Anyhow the American military now only fights less powerful countries (In the case of Vietnam, gets beaten by one, in Afghanistan stalemated and in Iraq although using massive firepower to crush a weaker military, is now so despised that even the puppet government want American troops out of their country).

Thank God for the Europeans who were able to use diplomacy to stop the killing of thousands of innocent civilians.

I am as critical of the USA when it is building an empire as I am of Russia when it is building its own. I simply do not understand why Russia's actions are getting such understanding here.

Being Finnish, I seriously can't ignore the lessons of history that everyone that happens to be bordering Russia has been learning over the centuries... at least during our Winter War the international community seemed to understand who the aggressor is, despite us not getting any material support in our fight to keep the bear at bay.

Wall to wall lies
georgia starts it with backing from israel and america and then blames Russia then has the french jew come in and cover israel butthole.
US media lock step on the lies. america is so fucked up it is amazing.

We (the current administration) have been baiting Russia with our plan to install missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic and by encouraging Georgia to seek NATO membership.

Georgia, meanwhile, has doubled its Coalition forces in Iraq, has troops in Afghanistan and Kosovo, and supports Israel in its "struggle" against the Palestinians. Could be its leadership IS composed of neocons. In 2005, PNAP started a European offshoot called The Committee for a Strong Europe. The names of its members are not published, however, as both PNAP and the new Committee no longer use their web sites.

Isolationism is looking more and more like SMART foreign policy to me. If we kept our noses and our weapons and our advice out of other countries' business, the entire world would probably be closer to true peace.

CptPicard -- "Russia *is* a pretty dangerous ultranationalist bully". Unlike the USA? And what exactly are the US and Israel doing in Georgia? This is another Georgia, a country, not the state that is to east of Texas. Or maybe GWB doesn't know that?

No, it is not a neocon election ploy. It's simply Russia exerting influence over its neighbours.

I am frankly a bit appalled to see how easily Georgia is being blamed here. The picture really is quite simple -- Russia is supporting separatists in Georgia so that Georgia is forced to respond, and then Russia gets to send in "peacekeepers" that is just a pretext for an all-out invasion of the country.

Not everything is a conspiracy by your own right-wingers, and Russia *is* a pretty dangerous ultranationalist bully...

robinea

You are one hundred percent on the money. Holbrooke is a disgraceful pimp for the whole neocon plan. Between McCain's foreign policy advisor (the bag man for the whole Georgia enterprise) and Holbrooke, we're looking down the same knee deep in bullshit road. If Obama doesn't dump this guy, he's not getting my vote.

The main "disproportion" (the word they all keep using) of the affair is the pathological pro-Georgia stance of virtually all US media and political figures. I did see last night, and again at noon today, the first representative of the Russian government I have yet to see speaking to US media. This was on the Charlie Rose show. Saakashvili and his his endless droves, meanwhile, are going on that principle of "repeat until it becomes truth."

And goddamn John McCain for pretty much everything he's said on this so far. To sort of (but not quite) paraphrase Bismarck, all of the Caucauses aren't worth the bleached bones of one US soldier. All comes back to oil.

BushCo. & Conspirators decided in 2000 (or earlier) to restart the cold war. In the face of the post dotcom crash recession, they may be complicite in some level of facilitating 9/11, for which they used as a pretense to shock the economy back to life by letting the military industrial complex run hog wild in the bank vaults.

First invasion, Afghanistan to reportedly chase down some saudi arabians. That failed.

By coincidence Afghanistan borders russia and china.

Next invasion, Venezuela... cause we thought that would be a cheap CIA operation with a high return on investment. That failed.

Next invasion, Iraq. Because tanks and bombers need oil too. That failed.

Next invasion Poland and Czech and Britian. Because Missile Defense is good for entrenched Cold War Part II military industrial business, screw the grandkids.

Next invasion, former soviet satellite states Georgia and Latvia. BushCo & Conspirators Inc, "Hey guys come join NATO... get 2 free briefcases of cash if you signup today only!" That failed.

At what point do you call it WWIII?

I see Condoleeza Rice as having two choices: One, she can use the ever present note of hysteria in her voice to demolish the glass in all the cathedrals of the world; or, two, she can use her remaining days in office not to reprimand big, bad Russia but to withdraw all American presence from Iraq to try and undo our own misbehavior.

canuckchuck, the GOP candidate's ass is owned lock, stock and barrel by many different foreign governments and corporate organizations.

Actually, his ass owned and syndicated for rent by the big Banks. Poor little Georgia could only afford shares on McCain's non-functioning left testicle.

[Top contributers: http://opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00006424]

Notice Germany was opposed to the US push to get Georgia into NATO.

Why doesn't Obama drop that saber rattling Richard Holbrooke - who sounds just as militaristic as McCain's puppet-master, Scheunemann? We don't need Clinton's old crew of 'humanitarian' interventionists to deceive us into new imperial adventures causing the deaths and displacement of many thousands more. Either Obama is about real change for restoring our republic and its constitution or he is about mere window dressing for the empire-building.

bligh3: "A small country votes to succeed from a larger country. The vast majority of citizens approve. No foreign government recognizes said country but country forms own government and military forces. Big country invades succeeding little country claiming that it is still part of Big country and that succession is illegal. Big country is universally condemned."

Hmm... The Chechens did just that, and when Yeltsin attacked them, the US backed his actions; just as the US backed Putin's similar actions. Their political-unit status within the USSR was ASSR, same as Abkhazia, but South Ossetia was an AO, an autonomous oblast (district) within the Georgian SSR, while their kin in North Ossetia were an ASSR. As stated in the USSR's constitution, it was always possible for an SSR to become an independent state, while ASSRs couldn't, and AOs were considered within, yet semi-autonomous of, the governmental juristiction of the larger political-unit (the semi-autonomous status meant they could appeal to Moscow about certain issues). Confused yet? I was studying the USSR and Russian history at the time of the USSR's implosion in 1990-91, and it was no surprise that the Chechens immediately declared their independence (IMO, they deserved it more than the Georgians). The battle to retain Chechnya has everything to do with the Russian Oil Patch. There was also a clause in the USSR's constitution that allowed for the movement of political-units from one status to another, which is what sanctioned the referendum by the S. Ossetians to join Russia, while the Abkhazians claimed their status as an ASSR automatically became that of an SSR upon Georgia's independence and that they too wanted to become independent of Georgia. (I'm not certain if the Abkhaz wanted to become a part of Russia at that time; I'm relying on my memeory to recall these events.)

Then we have the Kosovo precedent. The Kosovo district was the initial heartland of the Serbian state. Ethnic Albanians removed themselves/were pushed into Albania and an illegal war was waged on Serbia by NATO to reinstall the Albanians, which NATO then detached from Serbia. NATO just tried to pull the Kosovo trick in Ossetia/Georgia, but was anticipated and defeated by Russia. US/NATO Propaganda System lies and says Russia invaded Georgia. The truth known outside of US/NATO is Russia repeled Georgian invasion.

I don't think anyone proud enough to declare themselves pro-Confederacy on the issue of secession would want to be upheld by lies from the Propaganda System. The USSR Constitution was actually a very liberal/enlightenment-based document that was never truely followed until Gorbachev. The idea of autonomous political units was an attempt to accomodate the reality of the many differnet ethno-national groups that were--and still are--within the Russian Empire. I think it very likely that if the doctrine of War Communism wasn't forced on the Bolsheviks by European and US support for the White forces during the Russian Civil War then the evolution of the USSR would have been much different. (This also assumes the absence of post-Civil War provocations made by Euro-Americans, which implies a much different mind-set for those leaders.) Of course, in the study of history, you don't get to test hypothesis for past events--If Only....

Make Way For the Money Ball

Make way for the money ball
it's a juggernaut of greed
it's a runaway picking up speed

Make way for the money wrecking ball
selling short on the profit of the fall
the money ball overwhelms us all

The money ball is our treadmill for the man
like more poppy fields blooming in Afghanistan
to maximize the profit and forget the pain

Make way for the money ball
it's awesome shock indeed
bomb rebuild and feed

The snowballing money ball free fall
is cheered on by the neo liberal republican cons
and media dons who feed on wars
and call it freedom

Since there is no other way
make way for the money ball
help TINA!.... full spectrum stupidity...

it's on the way

Conversation I had last week in gas station, with 3 rednecks and a manager-type behind the counter:
Me: "Can I have one of those win-a-trip-to-Mexico scratch off cards? Not that we can go to Mexico anymore without a passport"
Redneck #1-"We can't?"
Manager type-"No. We can't. We can't go anymore to Canada or Mexico without a passport. It's really a pain"
Me-"Let me wave my American flag and brag about living in a free country!" (Said with much sarcasm)
Rednecks and manager- shock on faces as they are confronted with the cognitive dissonance of knowing about less freedom while believing that they are free. Or maybe shock that an American would speak such things.

This little fart of a country is right between Turkey and Iran. Look where the border with Iran is. Syria is also right there. What if material is being lined up for expanding the war? Launching Armageddon? Georgia is just collateral damage.

Elderlady - please please, if you have a way to do it, get the grown-ups to step in. (are there any left?)

As of this afternoon, according to news reports, young Mr. Bush has "decided" to send US troops and humanitarian aid, into Tblisi.

I agree with Mr. Roberts.

It's time for grown ups to step in.

to me, the author's thesis is absurd, but then we're talking about the behaviors of people who are absurd.

Last year Hugo Chavez ridiculed Bush before the UN. Russia's Putin ridiculed Bush as Comrade Wolf.

On August 12, 2008, Pravda ridiculed Bush, "Bush: Why don't you shut up."

Americans may think they are a superpower before whose presence the world trembles. But not the Russians.

Those Americans stupid enough to think that America's "superpower" insures its citizens from danger need to read the total contempt shown for President Bush in Pravda:

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? In your statement on Monday regarding the legitimate actions of the Russian Federation in Georgia, you failed to mention the war crimes perpetrated by Georgian military forces, which American advisors support, against Russian and Ossetian civilians

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? Your faithful ally, Mikhail Saakashvili, was announcing a ceasefire deal while his troops, with your advisors, were massing on Ossetia's border, which they crossed under cover of night and destroyed Tskhinvali, targeting civilian structures just like your forces did in Iraq.

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? Your American transport aircraft gave a ride home to thousands of Georgian soldiers from Iraq directly into the combat zone.

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? How do you account for the fact that among the Georgian soldiers fleeing the fighting yesterday you could clearly hear officers using American English giving orders to "Get back inside" and how do you account for the fact that there are reports of American soldiers among the Georgian casualties?

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? Do you really think anyone gives any importance whatsoever to your words after 8 years of your criminal and murderous regime and policies? Do you really believe you have any moral ground whatsoever and do you really imagine there is a single human being anywhere on this planet who does not stick up his middle finger every time you appear on a TV screen?

Do you really believe you have the right to give any opinion or advice after Abu Ghraib? After Guantanamo? After the massacre of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens? After the torture by CIA operatives?

Do you really believe you have any right to make a statement on any point of international law after your trumped-up charges against Iraq and the subsequent criminal invasion?

"President Bush,

Why don't you shut up? Suppose Russia for instance declares that Georgia has weapons of mass destruction? And that Russia knows where these WMD are, namely in Tblisi and Poti and north, south, east and west of there? And that it must be true because there is 'magnificent foreign intelligenc' such as satellite photos of milk powder factories and baby cereals producing chemical weapons and which are currently being 'driven around the country in vehicles'? Suppose Russia declares for instance that 'Saakashvili stiffed the world' and it is 'time for regime change'?

Nice and simple, isn't it, President Bush?

"So, why don't you shut up? Oh and by the way, send some more of your military advisors to Georgia, they are doing a sterling job. And they look all funny down the night sight, all green."

The US is not a superpower. It is a bankrupt farce run by imbeciles who were installed by stolen elections arranged by Karl Rove and Diebold. It is a laughing stock, that ignorantly affronts and attempts to bully an enormous country equipped with tens of thousands of nuclear weapons.

Paul Craig Roberts
counterpunch.com
August 13, 2008

A political strategist, Ralph Reed, former director of the Christian Coalition, tied to the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal is helping raise money for John McCain. This certainly puts the 'Brand Israel' on Senator McCain.

And another point: "We" have also armed and trained Georgian troops. And Russia (and the rest of the world) has had eight years to study our arms and training in open theater. We have not enjoyed the same opportunities, nor have the Georgians.

IOW - the R's have the play book (not to mention thousands of spies throughout the region.) And the G's got their ass kicked before the end of the first quarter. Not that this still-in-control crazy bag of neo-loons cares - the more chaos, the easier it is to spread their fascist tentacles...

freia (2:47) - Thank you for sharing that snippet of conversation! :) I know that conversation well. I've had it (or ones very much like it) a zillion times.

Senator McCain is likely to be actually worse than George Bush with the likes of Neo-Con Scheunemann helping out.

Conversation yesterday. If these people vote, be frightened, be very frightened....

ME: What a mess in Georgia. Man, neither side is a saint. Too bad civilians are caught in the middle.
X: Georgia is a friend of the US and the US is good and the Russians are bad, so we ought to help Georgia.
ME: Well the US is not necessarily good all the time.
X: (incredulously) Are you saying that the US is bad and not Russia?
ME: Well gosh, look at the last 8 years and the mess Bush got us into. I can't wait til the election
X: (dead silence) Any country that is a friend of the US deserves our help.
ME: (switching topics and thinking of a grocery list of "friends" of the US who are oh so good and whom we have "helped". After all, Saddam Hussein was once our friend, so he was good but turned bad. Our former buddies like Pinochet, the Shah and our current buddies like Saudia "behead me" Arabia and the dude from "boil me in oil" Uzbekistan. The list can fill pages.

I do concur this is a staged provocation/election year shenanigans, it just smells

A small country votes to succeed from a larger country. The vast majority of citizens approve. No foreign government recognizes said country but country forms own government and military forces. Big country invades succeeding little country claiming that it is still part of Big country and that succession is illegal. Big country is universally condemned.

Sweet Vindication! For all the good old boys down here in the former Confederate States of America that always said the Yankee invasion was illegal, they were right! Only 143 years too late.

Ken Mitchell (2:39 pm) writes, "Remember 40 years ago when Russia (USSR) and 4 of its puppet nations invaded Czechoslovakia. COincidence, I think not."

- Um, I think you've missed the whole point.

Remember 40 years ago when Russia (USSR) and 4 of its puppet nations invaded Czechoslovakia. COincidence, I think not.

So thousands of people were killed so McCain could gain a few points in the polls. I do hope Scheer's story gets translated into Russian and Georgian and is published there. McCain was already a certified War Criminal, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised at his killing others to gain votes.

Domestic issues are no-win for McCain. Fear of 'the other' must be stoked, to highlight McCain's supposed military prowess and leadership.

It is no coincidence that the largest fleet since 1991 is assembling near Iran.

Fasten your safety belts. The insanity has hardly begun!

I think this article is right on...I have been saying the same thing for 2 days. Notice the news talks about accusations that the Russians planned this to coincide with the Olympics...when it was Georgia that chose the date and attacked...Absurd levels of audacity and transferrance.

The Rupublicans are insane.

Yes, they are gaining power over their new fascist Amerika. But, like the Nazis, they are also in the process ensuring their own downfall.

The economically devastated country with no manufacturing, no resources and a broken military may allow them to take control, but it also ensures that they will also fall.

Perhaps they hope that after siezing control they will be able to rise like Germany did after WW1...I wouldn't count on it.

The fact is that the US is incredibly vulnerable. The only things protecting them right now are
1. Nuculear weapons
2. The fact that most of the world is actually adverse to war.

Without nukes, the US could not hope to fight another 1st world nation right now...at least not on the ground. The Navy is fine as is the air force.

Even the Navy has adjusted it's formations and tactics to defend more against terrorist & rogue type threats than against a real opponent. There are no longer enough ships to provide a proper Cold War style escort to each Carrier battle group.

OK, now I am just rambling.

Jaguara

It should also be mentioned that this is a US government plot to muscle the Europeans to the side inside of NATO,too. The US wants to corner the new and dependent exSoviet Union countries into its camp away from Germany, France, and Italy, and this Georgian adventure provides the means to do so.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_lobbyist

As John McBush said "Today, we are all paid by Georgians...well, at least I am"

After it was disclosed today that McBush's political advisors (lobbyists) have received millions of dollars from the government of Georgia.

Isn't it comforting to know that the GOP candidate's ass is owned lock, stock and barrel by a foriegn government?

I'm sure he will look after your best interests too (if you have a couple $million to throw his way)

It's revolting to see Democrats repeat the same Neocon charge that Russia's 'violating international laws'. Now all of a sudden Democrats are worried about international laws. If they're so worried why did these Bush cocksukers give him permission to illegally invade two sovereign nations 6 years ago?

I hope Russia shatters the US dream of stealing yet another country's oil pipeline.

Poor little Georgia vs the big Russian bear. Nope!

The President of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, is a New York trained lawyer, married to Dutch woman. He has been thoroughly groomed as a provocative puppet, armed and advised by the Bush regime.

American militarists/oligarchs, dream of Georgia becoming the first remote NATO outpost in the Caucasus. Georgia's attack on South Ossetia was orchestrated by Bush militarists. Putin's response was anticipated and welcome.

It's the military bases, gas/oil reserves, and pipelines in Russia's backyard. And the MIC profits from more war.

George Wanker Bush has been peeing on the Russians' shoes for a long time. He'll invade and occupy a much weaker nation like Iraq but Russia - which he apparently detests for no other reason than that it used to be The Soviet Union - is that other proverbial kettle of fish. Every day, Bush locks himself in the Oval Office bathroom, the only place where absolutely nobody has access to him, strips jay bird naked and masturbates into the 24 carat gold plated sink while staring at himself in the medicine cabinet mirror telling his reflection what a great man he is. His latest bathroom fantasy is wiping out Russia with neutron bombs, killing every living thing and taking over all the oil and gas for himself. And oh, yes, as everyone knows, America has absolutely no problems whatsoever.

The Georgia War is partly a Republican "election ploy." But even if this were not an election year, and even if Obama were president, the US would still be doing the same basic thing: maneuvering to increase its influence over Caspian oil & gas; while trying to reduce Russian influence.

Note that Obama & the Dems have taken the same exact dishonest position about the Georgian situation as McCain, Bush & the Republicans. Both parties and the corporate media see only "Russian agression," and none of them sees the obvious hypocrisy vis-a-vis US support for separatism in Kosovo that Scheer alluded to.

bush looked into his eyes and found a kindred spirit in putin. dig up those bomb shelters of the '50's. stock them with vodka and enough sleeping pills to do the job. settle in, cormac mccarthy's 'night' in hand and go to sleep, sleepy americans, it's what you're good at.

This episode is the final proof positive that the end game for the collapse of the Soviet Union was completely bungled by the West. Now it is faced with a situation where Imperial Russia has reemerged and all that is missing from the honorifics of Vladimir Putin is the title of Czar (though for all intents and purposes, he is). Where this situation is more dangerous than the old Cold War is that instead of a two-camp face off, we are presented with a multi-faceted poker game more akin to the Great Powers rivalry (where your allies and enemies changed with each hand, err, situation) that preceded World War One. Of course, the Neo-cons have not caught on to this reality and still stuck in the "Russian Bogeyman" mode that made them a lot of money in the past. As long as this corrupt creepy crew have sounding board they do with the weapons available, the world is in danger.