The Democrats' Twisted Morality
Revelations of an extra-marital affair two years ago by former North Carolina senator John Edwards has led the Democratic Party to not only reject the possibility of him running again for vice-president but to rule out allowing him to give his widely-anticipated address before the national convention. According to former Democratic National Committee chair Don Fowler, Edwards no longer meets the "high moral standards" expected of those given such a prominent role in the party's quadrennial gathering.
At the 2004 convention, however, the party leadership apparently saw no violations of its "high moral standards" in Edwards' decision less than two years earlier to co-sponsor the resolution authorizing the U.S. invasion of Iraq on the false grounds that that country still had "weapons of mass destruction" and posed a threat to U.S. national security, a decision he was still steadfastly defending at that time.
In fact, despite Edwards' key role in making possible an illegal and immoral war of aggression, the Democratic Party not only provided him with a prime time address at their convention that year, he was rewarded with their nomination for vice-president of the United States.
In other words, the Democratic Party apparently believes that leading our country into a disastrous war on false pretenses, a decision which has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and has brought untold suffering to millions, is of significantly less moral consequence than committing adultery.
Rewarding Edwards' Earlier Moral Lapses
In September 2002, in the face of growing public skepticism over the Bush administration's calls for an invasion of Iraq, Senator Edwards rushed to the defense of the White House in an op-ed article published in the Washington Post. In his commentary, Edwards claimed that Iraq was "a grave and growing threat" and that Congress should therefore "endorse the use of all necessary means to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
In reality, as was widely assumed by most independent strategic analysts based upon available data at that time and has subsequently been acknowledged by Edwards himself, Saddam Hussein's "weapons of mass destruction" and offensive delivery systems had been eliminated years earlier, he no longer had the capacity to produce new WMDs, and was therefore no longer a threat.
Furthermore, in support of the Bush administration's efforts to repudiate the United States' obligations under international law and to undermine the United Nations and the post-1945 international legal order, Edwards also insisted in his Washington Post article that "We must not tie our own hands by requiring Security Council action."
Following the invasion, despite the absence of the WMDs, the WMD programs, and the WMD delivery systems he falsely insisted Iraq still possessed, Edwards defended his support for the U.S. conquest anyway, indicating that these ostensible security concerns were simply the excuse, rather than the actual reason, for his support of a U.S. invasion and occupation of that oil-rich country. In an interview on Meet the Press that November, Tim Russert asked the North Carolina senator whether he regretted having given Bush "in effect a blank check for the war in Iraq." Edwards replied by saying, "I still believe it was right."
During his first run for the presidency in 2004, amid growing reports of widespread and systematic violations of international humanitarian law by U.S. forces and increasing public opposition to the war, Edwards continued to defend the occupation and supported a series of resolutions sending hundreds of billions of taxpayers' dollars to support Bush's military conquest.
Virtually every mainline Protestant denomination in the country, as well as the Catholic Church, had already gone on record declaring that the U.S. invasion of Iraq did not constitute a just war, was not morally defensible, and that the country's resources should be redirected toward meeting human needs. Indeed, the vast majority of both religious and secular ethicists in this country weighed in against the very policies so vigorously supported by John Edwards during the 2002-2004 period.
As a result of all this, if the Democratic Party was really concerned about a politician's sense of morality, there would have been plenty of grounds to have marginalized John Edwards at the 2004 Democratic convention.
Yet, despite all this, he was rewarded with the nomination for vice-president over scores of qualified and experienced Democratic leaders who took more principled and moral stands on these and other critical policy issues.
Punishing Edwards' Turn to the Left
Since stepping down from the Senate in 2005 and launching his second bid for the Democratic Party presidential nomination, Edwards appears to have undergone a genuine moral reawakening. Not only did he call for a withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, he -- unlike Senator Hillary Clinton -- formally apologized for his support for the invasion. He called for greater U.S. support for international humanitarian law and a major re-evaluation of U.S. foreign policy. Most notably, he rejected the neo-liberal international economic policies of the Clintons and the Democratic Party establishment, condemned the economic and political abuses of corporate elites, and came to champion the interests of the poor and middle class in ways few serious candidates for president in this country have done for decades.
This became a problem for the Democratic Party establishment, which has long had close relations with the Pentagon and major corporations. There was a clear discomfort over the prospects of Edwards becoming Obama's running mate or even just giving a major address before a nationally-televised audience where he would likely stress the moral imperative of America's social responsibility to its poor and the need to challenge powerful corporate interests.
Revelations of Edwards sexual indiscretion -- which had been rumored for many months but mysteriously became public just two weeks before the convention -- have provided the Democratic Party with the excuse they were looking for to rule out Edwards running as their vice-presidential nominee for a second time as well as to deny Edwards a podium for his populist message at the convention.
The Washington Post reported that top aides to presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama acknowledged that, in addition to having already dropped Edwards from the short list of possible running mates, "they had been moving to avoid having Edwards speak at this month's national party convention even before his admission."
The recent revelations have also given an excuse for the Democrats to deny the increasingly progressive former senator any policy-making position in the foreseeable future. The Post article quotes Fowler as insisting that "any role for Edwards in a potential Obama administration is 'dead'."
Ironically, former president Bill Clinton, whose marital infidelities by most accounts far surpass those of the more left-leaning Edwards, has been offered a major prime time speech before the convention. In addition, Obama has publicly declared that Clinton, a strident backer of neo-liberal economic policies, will play an important advisory role in his administration.
Yet what is perhaps most revealing in the contrast between the Democratic Party leadership's treatment of John Edwards in 2004 and in 2008 is their apparent belief that having an extra-marital affair is significantly worse than being, as a result of his role as an enthusiastic co-sponsor of the Iraq war resolution, an accessory to mass murder.
It is also profoundly disappointing that Obama -- who, despite the North Carolina senator's earlier war-mongering, praised Edwards in his 2004 keynote address before the Democratic National Convention -- apparently agrees with these distorted priorities.
One cannot help but wonder whether a party and a candidate with such a twisted sense of morality really deserves to win in November.
Stephen Zunes is a professor of Politics at the University of San Francisco.
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116 Comments so far
Show AllA lack of realistic awareness is certainly evident here.
The continuation of the theory that if you question Obama in any way puts you in McCains camp or suggest evident realities about the favored candidate simply suggests a lack of awareness and a proclivity for cult's.
The only problem with this essay is that elected leaders cannot make that one mistake -- the mistake of waging illegal preventive war.
I don't mean the mistake of adultery, which doesn't matter in terms of national policy.
Edwards is a war criminal, not some kind of reformed suffering saint. He deserves no sympathy. Zunes seems to be ironically suggesting that Edwards had some value, but got tarred with the wrong brush.
Some people who post here still get all mushy over Edwards. However, because he affirmed an illegal war, there is no turning back. Such an action should be the end of a political career, and worse, a prosecution.
While I oppose capital punishment, the architects of the Nazi wars were hung after their sentencing at Nuremburg. The U.S. set the example back then. I wouldn't shed a tear to see our war-supporting senators and congresspersons at the Hague with Bush and Cheney to face punishment. If the Hague won't do, then send them to Baghdad for proper sentencing.
No, folks. You should never support war criminals, even if they have charming personalities. Repentance is cheap, but there should be consequences for participants in wanton murder. And that doesn't mean giving them the VP slot, or sympathy of any kind.
Here's what I find most interesting about this article (pardon me if I missed another comment on this aspect):
- The article suggests, without explicitly spelling it out, that perhaps some individuals or groups WITHIN the DNC may have "outed" Edwards regarding the affair.
- Motivation?
- - Take him out of the running for VP?
- - Discredit his populist, pro-universal health care stand?
- - Discredit his criticism of the war, and apology for his vote?
- - Make the Democratic party appear more "mainstream" (more like Republicans and neocons) and less like someone finding a conscience about the political sphere (while missing the boat regarding his marriage)?
Could you imagine that ANY Democrat might have Edwards tailed, and have news and evidence leaked regarding an affair, so as to take him out of the running for VP, and to discredit or silence some of his positions, so that the positions of SOME OTHER Democratic contender might prevail?
Any such Democrat would have to be a consumate politician who valued winning by any means -- over and above anything like principles, ideals, or maintaining a moral backbone. Do we know anyone (male or female) who might fit the description?
"Congress Backs Tighter Rules on Lobbying"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/washington/03lobby.html
Obama on Single Transferable Voting
http://fairvote.org/?page=1755
"On Right and Left, a Push for Government Openness"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/03/washington/03cyber.html
so it does, something for Jerry the Republican Hack to think about: Barack Obama has spent more time in elected office than either you, Hillary, or Edwards fighting for Progressive values.
"Judge Him By His Laws"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html
"Judge Him By His Laws"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html
"On Right and Left, a Push for Government Openness"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/03/washington/03cyber.html
Obama on Single Transferable Voting
http://fairvote.org/?page=1755
"Congress Backs Tighter Rules on Lobbying"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/washington/03lobby.html
2) You say "I know about McCain. I can be sure what he will attempt to do."
Did you know John McCain has 9 houses, wears $500 shows, and cheated on his first wife to marry the heiress of Budweiser? Just a few funny facts about your hero.
3) You say "you know he is an elitist." Please, i hope you have fun on your vacation from reality.
In a campaign in which Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, has made liberal use of his globe-trotting 96-year-old mother to answer suspicions that he might be an antique at 71, Mr. Obama, who declined to be interviewed for this article, invokes his mother's memory sparingly. In one television advertisement, she appears fleetingly — porcelain-skinned, raven-haired and holding her toddler son. "My mother died of cancer at 53," he says in the ad, which focuses on health care. "In those last painful months, she was more worried about paying her medical bills than getting well."
"A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path"
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html
does this work
Jerry the Republican Hack says that Obama "has given his word several times and then broken it…but that is sometimes political reality and he is inexperinced".
Long live Black Liberation Theology.
Black Power!
ganamica 12:00
"Oh, what did you posters say before "throw under the bus" became such a catchphrase. The politics of mantras. gah"
Well, let's see: "toss aside as no longer useful to his/her further career progress of those who have enabled him/her to progress to this point in his/her career." or more colloquially: "forgot who brung him to the dance and went home with some other dude." Are those any better?
Oh, what did you posters say before "throw under the bus" became such a catchphrase. The politics of mantras. gah
Maybe in 2008, Edwards just isn't politically relevant. What does he do now? What has he been but just talk? He isn't because of his professional and personal reality. He is Dukakis.
Jerry D. Rose August 13th, 2008 6:28 pm
It looks like this post was unfortunately correct.
Thanks for the Pringle link, I'll check it out.
People on this thread are still comparing the "morality" of the candidate the Democrats' didn't nominate with that of the one the Republicans did nominate. Wouldn't it be a tad more relevant, as I have been saying throughout, to look at the "morality" of the inspiring and energetic "young" man from Illinois who has taken all kinds of short-cuts to political prominence, sold out his "principles" to the highest bidder and thrown "under the bus" anyone who got in his way, including his own grandmother? Shouldn't we be comparing THAT kind of immorality with that of men who will (unfortunately) be men in their sexual lifes? Just asking, for all those who like to do the "lesser evil" bit.
A great article that makes a comparison and draws the only possible conclusion.
I have one gripe, however:-
"resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people"
No, it resulted in the deaths of over a million people.
Padraig Pearse--
"One cannot help but wonder whether a party and a candidate with such a twisted sense of morality really deserves to win in November."
Compared to what; a Republican party with absolutely no sense of morality at all?
I agree! John McCain cheated on his first wife before he met Cindy and a lot of other Republicans have dirty laundry too. Remember Newt G.? He said how terrible Bill was when he was messing with Monica and later it came out he was having an affair at the same time. I'm not sticking up for Edwards. I feel really bad for his wife and family but the Republicans have the same problem.
McCain is having Cheney speak at his convention. We know how NOT moral he is.
Yes, Edwards screwed up too close to the convention. Let's see if the Republicans make such a Puritannical fuss about McCain's infidelity. I think not. One big reason the Dem. writers, e.g., Kate Pollit, Dowd, DNC, et al., are so quick to reject Edwards is that they didn't want him in the race to begin with: his proposals being the most progressive (e.g., his opening for national health care), really not taking corporate money (contrary to Obama and Clinton), winning the debates, and emphasis on poverty and joblesness unemployment are not the interests of corporate Democrats and most Dem. voters cared more about making civil right history in electing a black or woman President than in boring policy matters, including the economy.
I care more about policy, trade issues, military adventurism and our tanking economy than in history and, given the corporate entanglements of both parties and Dem. treatment of Edwards, I will now contribute to and vote my conscience-for Nader again-at least he is believable.
There is tossup for the theme song for the up coming conventions, the oldies are going for Diana Ross "Love Child" and the younger set want Michael Jackson "Billie Jean".
Thomas More 8:10 For anyone needing more information about Obama's "Illinois connections" you could start with Evelyn Pringle's authors' page for OpEd News, which is at: http://www.opednews.com/author/author58.html
This contains links to most of her numerous articles on the subject, many of them repetitive and not especially well written.
As I said in my earlier post, Pringle has been discredited by some as a Hillary Clinton partisan trying to do a hatchet job on Obama, but she bases on a lot of investigative reportorial work of people with the Chicago Times, and facts are facts (if they are indeed facts), even if they come out of the mouths of "babes."
welshTerrier2 August 13th, 2008 8:02 pm
"The American Government answers to only one master and that is corporate power and the big money that sustains it. Do you agree with that?"
I do and I don't. Specific aren't I?
You make some good points. I would say that last year proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that government will follow the will of the American people if its emphatic.
Big business, many academics for their own political reasons, racist front groups like LaRaza that are funded by Corporations and Foundations, government at the behest of business insisted that we have a comprehensive immigrartion reform again which we already had in 86. About 80% of the American people said no. And they didn't do it.
So you are right and wrong as I see it. More right than wrong by a long shot of course. But it proves what can be done if most citizens agree.
Jerry D. Rose August 13th, 2008 6:28 pm
I thought I touched on it with my #4. Not much at that though, but I don't know enough about Rezco and the other things that have come up there to comment on them myself.
I was hoping that some of you folks that know more than I do would step forth.
I agree that the Republican strategists are practically slathering at the mouth right now at the prospect of using what apparently are problems.
I'm sure somebody will speak up. I hope so.
Let's put just a little bit of meat on the fragile old bones of all this lesser-evilism, shall we? I think before we make judgments about who is the lesser-evil and by how much, we should try to be at least somewhat tangible and somewhat less vague.
We all can make laundry lists filled with the inequities we see all around us. We can hold high our signs about under-funded education and health care, rampant corruption, racial oppression, gender oppression, worker oppression, and all the rest of it. All worthy of our focus to be sure.
But, in the end, in my view, we must not lose focus of one harsh reality: the people's government clearly has not and will not act in the best interests of the American people. The American Government answers to only one master and that is corporate power and the big money that sustains it. Do you agree with that?
You need look no further than the financial statements of Lockheed Martin and Exxon and all the other big boys who not only receive direct financial payouts from the Federal government but, far more importantly, are able to direct Federal policy to serve their interests rather than the interests of the American people.
Specifically, their exploitation of foreign peoples and their resources for their sole commercial benefit has devastated this country. They engage in wars and set virtually the entire world against the US. While we pay with our treasure and the blood of those who, while perhaps well meaning, do little more than serve the Corporate State, they reap record profits.
And Democrats offer Obama as the lesser evil? That's the premise being peddled here by some, is it not? Well, let's poke at that just a little instead of just accepting Obama's lesser evil label.
To be the lesser evil, it seems to me, one would have to call for substantial cuts in the $1.1 trillion military budget. Has Obama called for the reduction of even a single dollar? Is there bona fide evidence that Obama would stop drowning out the critical programs he so articulately advocates by making real and deep cuts in the military budget? Because if he won't, and if he hasn't, all the pretty words are really nothing more than just pretty words.
And, if "the military-industrial complex" is just a tired old buzzword to you, perhaps you would like to talk about meaningful change about our addiction to oil. Does support for offshore oil drilling sound to you like Mr. Lesser of the Evils has the right approach? Is he sympatico with you on that? Imagine a freeze of bomber technology and a transfer of funds out of the military budget and into battery research to build viable electric cars in the US in less than five years. That's the kind of vision we really need. Pretty talk about "reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing carbon emissions" is just that, pretty talk.
That's what needs to change. It's not going to happen under either President Obama or President McCain. Neither one is going to genuinely fight with the American people to seize back their rightful ownership and control of their own government. Neither will stand up against the tyranny of Big Defense or Big Oil. Our problems have become increasingly urgent and we are left quibbling over inanities. Perhaps Obama is indeed a lesser evil; the real point is that what he offers in the context of the urgency we face is really nothing at all.
Since I posted at 3:14 PM yesterday about another "morality" problem of the Democrats, this one concerning Obama's association with corrupt political forces in Illinois, not a single poster of the roughly 70 posts that have followed have addressed this issue, even to bother to refute it. Is this a "third rail" of political discourse into which everyone, except a rare fool like me, is afraid to rush?..even though I warn Cassandra-like that the Republican attack machine is sure to use this to bring down Obama, perhaps after Obama is already nominated and the party will feel itself "stuck" with a damaged goods candidate that cannot be so easily "Spitzer-ized." Is Obama so near the status of deity in the eyes of his opponents as well as his supporters, that it would be "sacrilege" to even think that he could be guilty of a deficiency in "morality?" Just asking, at this point I'm not expecting any answer or discussion of the matter, at least not until the "scandal" breaks with something like a grand jury indictment in Chicago. Then the "oh my" reaction will start and the press won't be able to get enough of talking about it.
leftk August 13th, 2008 5:16 pm
Have you watched any of the sermons from Wright and read any of the Trumpet articles? They sure looked racist to me. And the congregation sure looked to be going right along.
That was what bothered me. All those little bites, I thought , out of context maybe. But when I watched entire sermons and read articles from the Trumpet what I saw didn't look like any black church I've attended and my black friends said thery don't see that either.
But they suggested that indeed there is of course racial context still in black church's and of course I've heard and seen some of that, but nothing like Trinity. And I'd never seen anything like the demonstration by the Priest (can't remember his name at the moment)in Trinities pulpit.
Would you say that Black Liberation Theology it not a racist ideology? It sure sounded like Wright was demonizing whites to me and it reads like it.
This is hard going for me, How far is too far in preaching? What is really racist and what is really just complaining or justified feelings.
I have always believed racism is racism, no matter who it comes from. But one of my best friends (she's black) detests Wright, but says he speaks for a certain portion of blacks even today. And in her mind, even though she disagrees with him she tells me to cut him some slack.
I think I'm even more confused about this now...but its not the most important point about Obama to me at least. Is he ready? And why does anyone think so?
Thanks
Thomas More,
Obama did not attend a racist church and in fact I'm disgusted by the slanderous right wing filth that has been thrown on Jerimiah Wright for espousing a Theology that preaches empowerment of the oppressed and speaks back to a completely racist culture by saying, "it's good to be black!"
I only wish Obama preached a message of liberation and empowerment.
This seems a good time to ask this.
Allow me my fantasy of lesserevilism in the idea that Nader, McKinney, et al have no hope of being elected. Lets assume that most of the folks that vote for them would have voted for Obama.
Also allow my fantasy that the two party system we have right now won't deconstruct in time for the election, so these two are my choices.
So....my question is do I vote for Obama or McCain?
I know about McCain. I can be sure what he will attempt to do.
But Obama now. I don't know about him. I read what everyone says, here and everywhere else.
What I find is that:
+
I know he's not a muslim. I can be fairly sure he is not unpatriotic. He gives a great speech. He or someone behind the scenes is a fantastic politician. He's well funded.
-
1. he has practically no legislative experience.
2. He seems to have been confused on a number of things he said that turned out to be untrue.
3. He attended a racist church for 20 years and took his children there.
4. his associations have been, to be generous, questionable.
5. He has given his word several times and then broken it...but that is sometimes political reality and he is inexperinced.
6 His top 3 advisors/associates appear to be racists, one of my biggest problems so far. Is it possible Obama is?
7. I know he's an elitist.
Could some of you Obama folks dispel any of these concerns? Is there some real substance I am missing?
Declaration....I am uncommitted. Still trying to figure this out and you guys are usually better than most to ask as on one hesitates to say what they think.
Thanks in advance.
After reading this thread, I've noticed that there's one major point of disagreement between those who say "Vote Obama" and those who say "Vote Nader [or McKinney]" ...
The disagreement has to do with JUST HOW BAD a McCain Administration will be. If one thinks we can survive it, then one is more likely to vote 3rd party (which is a meaningful statement, but not a meaningful VOTE).
Me? I THINK WE CAN SURVIVE OBAMA, AND PERHAPS SEE A BIT OF IMPROVEMENT. BUT WE CANNOT SURVIVE McCAIN!
dougnwagner (1:23 pm) -
Nothing you say is worth reading, let alone responding to. You are probably the dumbest turd I've ever encountered at CD -- a pathetic liar who doesn't even know the difference between "left" and "right."
Don't go away though -- I often enjoy laughing at your drivel.
Siouxrose (1:33 pm ) asks, "...do the times allow us the luxury of deviating an iota closer to that abyss?"
- The way I see it, if McCain wins, we go to the abyss more quickly & directly. If Obama wins, the oppressive system will be strengthened temporarily, possibly averting the very worst in the near term; but only at the cost of strengthening a system that will still ultimately lead to the same kind of disaster. It's sort of like choosing between immediate pain, vs. more razor wire surrounding one's jail cell. Both parties are parties of war, plutocracy & empire.
Neither of these alternatives deserves your support. As I wrote above, the Republicans want our world view to be entirely determined by fear of "terrorists", while the Democrats want our politics to be entirely determined by fear of "Republicans." Both of these approaches are mistakes. Neither is a good basis for taking a position.
BTW, thanks very much for your presence in this forum. You elevate its spirit & make it a better place.
"As far as I am concerned I see no reason to vote. If you voted for a 3rd candidate like Nader in 04 you really voted for Bushit/Cheney." No. It isn't. This is like saying that not voting at all is a vote for all of the above. A vote for a 3rd party candidate or independent IS VOTING for a 3rd party candidate or independent, and not voting at all is voting for NONE OF THE ABOVE.
"The solution? Vote Nader."
And that will do...what, exactly?
The people are not informed by our media of the important policy issues of candidates of any party. There is no one describing what the consequences of those policies would be in our media. By "our media" I mean our television and radio. They do belong to us and yet they serve the rich and corporate agenda.
Most Americans have no idea what is at stake. Far too many Americans have no idea who is running for president, or the Senate, or the House. As for local politics, if this were not a presidential election, those local candidates wouldn't draw ten percent of the eligible voters.
Unless and until we force the FCC to enforce the rules of the fairness doctrine we will never know who adheres to the same policies we hold dear.
A third party without national exposure of its policy issues doesn't stand a chance of creating a revolution in voters' support.
While we do have more avenues of change than Poland, we also have more people to educate. We cannot educate them without the media.
We have roughly 350 million citizens. Poland had less than 35 million citizens at the time of their "revolution," and in a much smaller country. Their situation was much more dire than what we are facing today. I fear the revolution will not be televised and therefore will not succeed.
Mr. Zunes,
Why are you "disappointed" in Obama?
Have you not been listening to the man since the beginning of his political career?
He has always been a tool of corporations.
Not enough of us are paying attention. That is why empty suits like Obama get puffed up into "change" agents.
The solution? Vote Nader.
RICH M: PS I am NO match for you in the art of political debate. What I just wrote above comes from my SOUL... and in matters esoteric, I am better informed/educated than most in this forum. The esoteric implications of these 2 "lesser choices" versus tossing the system in its entirety to move closer to new alternatives... I believe these WILL come, will emerge. It's true that the worse things get, the greater the likelihood.
One difference separating past populations from ours is television--a means to render the public conscience into an equivalent somnabulistic state. The drugging of the population furthers this outcome, obese people do NOT have the energy to do marches. MANY are ill. And of course there are the Roman arena style smoke and mirror extravaganzas, sports and televangelized religion, two more. Apparently porn is another for a great many. Lives of quiet desperation... coping, not collectively generating a target for their shared angst!
RICH M: I totally agree with your argument, that NO change can occur between a fixed ALLEGED 2-PARTY SYSTEM. However, there is a FEAR factor at play here. We all see the RUSH to the abyss that Bush & the neocons have created, while simultaneously ARMING the equivalent of a military state at home. Obama seems like a 4 year slowing down of the nation's death pact with internal suicide and external genocide.
I AGREE that the stances of these 2 are far too similar, and while some argue that going for the worst will catalyze change all the faster, keep in mind there are battles on a NUMBER of fronts including:
1. US image/standing in the world
2. US debt (and the increasing quagmire of the international banking firms/brokerage firms and the threat of an all-out grand depression.)
3. Climate change, EXTREME possibilities generating from the speed with which the ice shelves are melting, and the various intertwined ecosystems ALL coming asunder.
4. Subversion of the US Constitution, loss of liberties at home; evisceration of the all-important checks and balances that separate the presidence from the office of a king/tyrant/pharoah/czar or dictator by whatever name.
Then there are the other necessary issues--like job losses at home, housing price/crisis, health care debacle, ridiculous uniformity education protocols, GM food supply, disabled EPA watch over quality of air/water/food/soil, ETC.
In other words, there are a great many crises all taking place at once (at their own varying speeds). To put a mad man into office, as opposed to one at least CAPABLE of nuanced thought (sell-out that he may be)... it just seems like rushing INTO the abyss. I am NOT an Obama fan, much less so as he's moved so substantially to the right, made himself so clearly a sell-out since he won the nomination, but McCain IS like staring at Dr. Frankenstein when you need surgery. And there's someone else, far more mild mannered IN the room, prepared to operate (though AN operator he may be).
I am undecided... I love Nader, but... do the times allow us the luxury of deviating an iota closer to that abyss?
RichM,
save your right-wing bullshit for when you lecture your parents at dinner. This is a fucking grown-ups site.
And ascott, as for Nader or McCain what have they done? Pass the most meaningful ethics reform in the last quarter-century? pass legislation to fund alternative energy like ethanol? pass legislation making government spending transparent? Barack Obama has. Deeds do speaker louder than words. Louder than your squeaky nonsense on the internet. Obama has more years in elected office than either Hillary or Edwards, and by the way oppossed the war when it mattered, 2002. Fly your fucking free market-Ron Paul-Mark Foley flag somewhere else.
"The Republicans who controlled the Senate last year refused to let it come up. And on Jan. 12, before the details of the proposal had been disclosed, Senator Charles E. Schumer, the New York Democrat in charge of his party's fund-raising as head of the senatorial campaign committee, used a run-in on the Senate floor to deliver an angry rebuke to the disclosure idea's lead sponsor, Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, several people present or briefed on the confrontation said.
In a subsequent conversation, Mr. Schumer said he worried that the proposal could cramp fund-raising by placing an undue burden on potential bundlers, said aides who were briefed and a lawmaker familiar with their talk, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the nature of the talks.
"Senator Obama has not been the most popular person in our caucus in the last couple of weeks," said a Democratic aide involved in deliberations over the bill. "
"Senate Measure Puts Spotlight on Fund-Raising"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/us/politics/20ethics.html
"On Right and Left, a Push for Government Openness"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/03/washington/03cyber.html
"Judge Him By His Laws"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html
Padraig Pearse (11:56 am) writes, "By demonstrably 'contributing to a Republican victory', you ARE voting for war, and endorsing the empire."
- Utter bullshit. By voting for the Democrat, you are also voting for war and empire.
Padraig Pearse (10:49 am ) -- "...And precisely how will making McCain president by default contribute to this laudable outcome?..." (ie, ending the rigged 2-party system)
- Have you heard of "struggle"? A struggle is inevitably involved in freeing yourself from slavery. A "struggle" unavoidably involves ups & downs. Having McCain as president, for example, would not in itself be pleasant. But allowing fear of that outcome to be the main determinant of political attitude (ie, to cave in & vote for the stinking Democrat) is to simply surrender to the system's oppressiveness. If you're serious about struggling against an unjust system, you don't surrender to it.
There's no way to completely avoid unpleasantness. It's a delusion to imagine that just by voting -- in a system rigged against the public interest -- that you can avoid unpleasantness.
There is little difference between Obama & McCain. As things now stand, Obama will probably win, mainly because the Big Money is behind him. If he wins, the US population gains virtually nothing. If he loses, it loses very little. The real loss is incurred, not by seeing a lousy Democrat lose, but rather by failing to struggle against this oppressive system.
Just as it's a foolish blunder to let our world view be entirely determined by fear of "terrorists", it's a blunder to let our politics be entirely determined by fear of "Republicans." The real task is not fighting "McCain," but joining the struggle for a political system that defends the interests of the population, rather than just the interests of plutocrats.
There They Go Again! The Clinton Bashers
Lets just say they are even vote everytime Democrats.
Well My guess is they cause LBJ not to seek a 2nd term. Probably voted for HHH them McGovrn,
oh yes Then Came Jimmie Carter they smile for about 10 minutes as he took the oath of office.
But then When a Divorced Movie actor Planly and Adulter Reagan was running then they curse Mr. Carter for even being alive.
Lets see Mondale got the nomination. Our loyal Demos stayed home. then Dukakis well his wife had mental treatment .Then came Bill Clinton Who did not win clearly with those DEmocrats If you recall, but the 2nd term he won it all.
Oh yes then our great DEms watch Al Gore go down to defeat, Then they wanted John Kerry until the pubs said he wasn't a real War hero.
Yep you Dems find more ways to lose elections .
You bashing Senator Clinton for staying in a marriage, And Old Bill for getting a Monica.
Now you Clinton bashers come on take a bow. You are responsible foorr 8 years of buush and soon will be responsible 4 years of McCAin.
As you know I am writing in Senator's Clinton's name as my choice for President.
You loyal Democrats will again sit on your hands as Obama bites the dust Big Time, and you all will Blame The Clintons for it.
You know I will be dam glad to finnally rid myself of the Democratiic Party.
When I switch to The Green Party the day after the election I will just join you in an election after election defeat. But at the very least My soon to be Green Party voters will stay loyalto everyone in their party.
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na
Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na
NADER!!!
By demonstrably "contributing to a Republican victory", you ARE voting for war, and endorsing the empire.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
"IF the election is free and fair and IF your vote really does count, and IF the poll numbers are correct (factually-based and truthful) and Obama and McCain really ARE essentially in a statistical dead heat..."
those are the IFs that to me are already decided, and that would be more obvious to more americans if we open the debates to nader, barr, and the GP. advocating for open debates is not advocating for a vote.
obama and the DP are measurably better than mccain and the RP, but which choice now would be better for future generations is an interesting argument. the softer DP face of the corporate empire? how many people are awake now under bush? and how many were wise to the empire under clinton?
"I understand how presumptuous Democrats may wish to commandeer my vote, with the excuse that as a leftist I should be a captive of their party, and vote for O'Clinton to spite McBush. They will wail that my vote for Nader is a wasted vote, perhaps even contributing to a Republican victory. But, I repeat, I will never again vote for war, and I will never again endorse the empire."
-Manuel Garcia, Jr.
"If one cannot stomach voting for the Democrats, then that means voting is not the answer..."
Again, not voting at all is a de facto vote for Reaganism; and precisely what McCain would like for all Liberals to do.
- This argument is not...a good reason to vote for the Democrat. Rather, it's a good reason to be thinking seriously about ending the rigged 2-party system...
And precisely how will making McCain president by default contribute to this laudable outcome?
Padraig Pearse (10:08 am) makes the same boring & tiresome point that a vote for anyone but the Democrat is "A DE FACTO VOTE FOR McCAIN." (He seems to think great length is required to make this uninteresting point that's been thoroughly examined a billion times.)
- This argument is not, as Padraig wrongly imagines, a good reason to vote for the Democrat. Rather, it's a good reason to be thinking seriously about ending the rigged 2-party system that effectively outlaws all constructive options from US politics.
"Thinking in terms of ending the 2-party system" does not mean throwing rocks at windows, going to an occasional Saturday antiwar march, or even voting for Nader or McKinney. It means contributing to the building of a serious culture of political resistance. It means reading & discussing with your friends & family the types of ideas that are conducive to heightened political consciousness. (Hint for advanced readers: these "types of ideas" are generally leftist critiques of capitalism -- since that's the ultimate source of today's ills, & is also what the 2-party system basically defends.)
Today's crisis cannot possibly be solved within the prevailing framework, because the framework itself produced & perpetuates the crisis. The only path that leads out of the dilemma is breaking from the Democrats, ending the 2-party farce, & extending the range of permissible opinion. Voting for the Democrat merely strengthens the system's oppressiveness. If Americans aren't willing to face this truth, they will remain slaves -- and will deserve to remain slaves.
It's hilarious to read those who suggest voting for Nader to get Nader elected president. That is like telling someone to buy a big rocket if they want to fly to the moon or to buy a lottery ticket if they want to get rich.
Of course virtually everyone at CD recognizes that the Democratic Party and its candidates stink to high heaven. The Republican Party is the reckless, completely ruthless, insane corporatist party and the Democratic Party is the more competent, more sophisticated, risk averse corporatist party. If voting is all one is going to do, those are the realistic choices.
If one cannot stomach voting for the Democrats, then that means voting is not the answer, at least not in 2008.
"If you are an Obama supporter...Not electing McCain shouldn't be the only reason. Please consider voting green..."
If we lived under a multi-party parliamentary system with proportional representation, I most certainly would. However, we don't; we (allegedly) live under a two-party, winner-take-all system; as they're not needed to form a ruling coalition, loosing (don't delude yourself; that's a foregone conclusion) third party candidates do not get a seat at the table, and have absolute zero influence upon the winner of the election.
McCain has publicly vowed to appoint more Fascist Scalia clones to the Federal courts, especially SCOTUS; he has publicly called for the banning of abortion by overturning Roe v. Wade.
McCain has publicly stated that he will make the Bu$h tax cuts for the über rich permanent; thereby permanently enshrining a new Guilded Age of plutocrats and reducing the American economy to banana-republic feudalism, and continuing to bankrupt the Treasury to strangle entitlements like Social Security and Medicare to death (or "drown in a bathtub"), and to ensure that for generations to come any future president will find the cupboard too bare for any domestic discretionary spending.
McCain has famously repudiated McCain-Feingold and his stand on campaign finance reform, his opposition to State torture, and has vowed to stay in Iraq until victory, even if it takes 100 years.
Yes; not electing McCain damn well CAN be the only reason!
IF the election is free and fair and IF your vote really does count, and IF the poll numbers are correct (factually-based and truthful) and Obama and McCain really ARE essentially in a statistical dead heat, ANY VOTE FOR McKENNEY OR NADER IS A DE FACTO VOTE FOR McCAIN, regardless of how you rationalize it. If you insist upon Quixotically voting for candidates who, regardless of their platforms have absolute zero chance of winning (and encourage others to do likewise), you are undeniably actively contributing to the continued Reaganist march of this country into Fascism just as surely as if you were the most fervently rabid Young Republican.
"One cannot help but wonder whether a party and a candidate with such a twisted sense of morality really deserves to win in November."
Compared to what; a Republican party with absolutely no sense of morality at all?
Go ahead MIFTIN talk about gaza! we are all waiting.
"Edwards no longer meets the "high moral standards" expected of those given such a prominent role in the [Dumbocratic] party's quadrennial gathering." As noted above----Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! That may be the driest joke ever published here at CD....it is certainly the darkest. NADER. NADER. NADER.
This posting is not directed at Obama voters.
I registered Green Party this year (voted for Nader the last two elections) but will vote Green Party this year. Now is the time to make a stand, and I do support many of McKinney's issues, though I still support Nader and his positions and solutions. I think this election the strategic thing to do is vote green. And you don't have to do it by holding your nose.
If you are an Obama supporter and reading this, I would ask you what core principles does Obama support that you think are important. Not electing McCain shouldn't be the only reason. Please consider voting green by reading their up on their positions on issues that are of concern to you.
http://www.gp.org/platform/2004/intro.html#998247 The Green Party Platform introduction
Don't support the corporate status quo, support third party, support the Green Party.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m46386&hd=&size=1&l=e
There you go DPAs as soon as someone progressive even comes within a 1,000 miles of threatening the corrupt status quo the Democrats self-castrate and remove the threat for the good of the stockholders.
Go Democrats? Go Obama? Go Rocky Mountain Oysters?
zaz August 12th, 2008 10:22 pm writes, "I will vote for the lesser of two evils (obama) if I have to. (I just won't eat before I vote)"
-I'm glad I don't have to worry about throwing up when I vote for Cynthia McKinney- glad I'm not a lesser-evilist!
Stephen Zunes well said sir, and I take back everything I said about you back in the Obama-fawning days.
"One cannot help but wonder whether a party and a candidate with such a twisted sense of morality really deserves to win in November."
-Amen Prof. Zunes
They most certainly do not deserve to win. Screw the Democrats and their war-mongering candidate Sen. Obama who is the consummate unprincipled opportunist of our time.
The Democrats do not deserve to win because:
a) they refuse to end the war
b) refuse to impeach Bush for war crimes when Clinton was impeached for getting his helmet polished.
GO GREENS! NADER! 3rd Party! ANYBODY BUT A DEM!
People are dying of starvation in Gaza. Why is nobody on common Dreams talking about it?
Vote anybody but the the two parties
I will vote for the lesser of two evils (obama) if I have to. (I just won't eat before I vote) If I know my state is decided I'll vote independent.
mandolin writes:
"If you're waiting for a saint to file papers for public office, keep waiting."
No, not a saint, just someone who isn't insane.
The Democratic-Republican duopoly has given the American public a choice that isn't a choice.
Both candidates are mouthpieces for Corporate America.
Both candidates are in favor of two current wars (Iraq and Afghanistan), while at the same time, both candidates are willing to fight two *more* wars in the Middle East (Iran and Pakistan). ... With all weapons "on the table," meaning: including nuclear weapons.
Thats' crazy. That's insane.
Moreover, neither corporatist-candidate has proposed policies that would in any meaningful way curtail Corporate America's ongoing rape of the earth's natural resources. ... Does it take a saint to see the "species-suicide" that such short-sightedness implies?
Such short-sightedness is not only suicidal, it's not only criminal -- it's insane! Self-preservation is supposed to be the most basic drive in human beings. Only crazy people act differently.
Several other advanced industrial countries have strong, viable third parties -- with many third party candidates sitting-members of the government.
Several other advanced industrial countries have "proportional representation" -- so that if 3% or, say, 30% of the population votes for the Green Party, then 3% or 30% of the legislature consists of Greens. ... But not so in America. ... Why? Because those countries are populated with saints and the US isn't? Come on, let's get real!
Are these systems populated with saints, or are these systems whose citizens are more politically advance, more politically *sensible* as compared to the United States?
People throughout the world snd throughout history have succeeded in their revolutionary efforts to the extent that, by compariosn, establishing a viable third party ... is small potatoes.
No blood need be shed. No Bastilles stormed. No prisoners tortured or killed.
If the US citizenry really thinks that establishing a viable third party movement requires "divine intervention" -- well, it just isn't true. History proves it.
What's required is:
a.) jettisoning the cynical notion that "it can't be done," that T.I.N.A., "There Is No Alternative", and
b.) working to achieve it.
As far as I am concerned I see no reason to vote. If you voted for a 3rd candidate like Nader in 04 you really voted for Bushit/Cheney. Like Lou Dobbs said....Democrats and Republicans are the same bird with different wings. I see no way out of this mess our country is in except by mass demonstrations. However most Americans are so selfish that they do not even know the "WHY" of the problems in this country. Until things get much, much worse Americans will sit on their fat, lazy, stupid a---s and do nothing.....Frustrated...The people who write in these boxes are about the only people who think as far as I am concerned...Frustrated more...
Words and deeds, DOUGWAGNER
Obama was "against the war" when he could do nothing about it. Cheap talk.
Since he's been in the Senate, how many war-funding bills has he not loved? Truth in deeds.
If someone were repeatedly kicking you in the shin while insisting that he cared about you and your welfare, would you believe him?
Don't you believe that "actions speak more loudly than words"?
John Edwards's affair is the concern of only 3 people -- him, his wife, and the other woman. Yes, it's a sad story, but it's nobody else's business.
Edwards was my preferred Democratic candidate since over a year ago. He sounded more like someone from "the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" than any of the other candidates. My take was that, like LBJ, he started out poor, and knows what that's like. Who else in the party was even talking about poverty and related issues lately?
On the Iraq vote, how is Edwards any worse than Hillary or Kerry or a long list of others? He has at least acknowledged that he thinks his vote was wrong, and he regrets it. How many others have done that?
I've voted for only one winning Presidential candidate in my life -- LBJ in 1964. Did Lyndon have some undesirable traits? Yes indeed. But he did more for the black person in this country than any President since Lincoln. And he did a lot to alleviate poverty, starting even before he ran for Congress. But the Vietnam War was his downfall, and he had much more of a direct hand in the prosecution of that war than John Edwards's 2002 Senate vote did in Iraq.
Knowing now what I knew then, would I vote for Lyndon again? In a heartbeat.
If you're waiting for a saint to file papers for public office, keep waiting.
leftk,
You're right. Edwards hasn't DONE anything. I'm still glad he was verbally anti-corporate though. Haven't heard that from Obama yet.
Bill Clinton is (was) a hopeless buffoon. His free trade policies were gasoline on the fire for transnational corporations. And I'm afraid history won't be kind on his other social policies as well. Were some of us duped? Yup. just a bit.
WSWS.ORG: Many very important posts here today.
SAMSON: As to the question of Edward's authenticity. His sun sign is Gemini, sign of the "twins." Many born under the 4 mutable signs have a chameleon-like quality. They adapt by being what the moment calls for. You may recall that I believe in reincarnation, so when I find a birth chart before me that emphasizes these mutable signs (3 of the 4 are dual: Gemini twins, Pisces 2 fish, and Sag: half human/half archer) I consider what type of past life experience may have merited the intrinsic inner dichotomy such persons daily wrestle with.
The past 2200 years have in theory and programmed behavioral cues been influenced by the sign of Pisces and the duality suggested by the 2 fish has acted to exacerbate all forms of division, particularly between the genders, added to religious groups, racial groups, etc. We all experience some of the internal polarity as a result. But mutable signs really struggle with this, almost living the comic book sketch of an angel speaking to them in one ear and a devil in the other.
There have been many purges throughout mankind's bloody history, phases where counterfeiting WHO one was, cloaking their beliefs, disguising as other to fit in became a strategic survival device. I believe souls who lost their authenticity in such adaptation reincarnate under mutable signs, particularly if the entire chart is at odds with itself: shades of a man divided against himself cannot stand... for anything.
I have not gone into Edward's chart at depth to know how deeply the dual pattern impacts him, but the sun sign alone does explain some of his propensity to lead a double life. (JFK was also a Gemini, and quite lustfully open to infidelity, too).
Whoever compared Edwards to Gary Hart, I see the parallel. And Hart is a Sagittarius, another dual sign, whereas Ted Kennedy is Pisces, and there was that incident years ago.
I did relate this statistic in another thread, but a poll done by Shere Hite, a sex researcher revealed that almost 3/4 of women and 77% of men DO have affairs during the course of their marriages. Apart from the concept of the "exceptional nation" explanation, this is also a nation founded on some pretty strict forms of Protestantism, and original sin as taken for fact by mostly fundamentalist Christians carries more weight perhaps than the secular sin of premeditated murder. If only they understood...
I also question the author's stating that most churches were initially against this war. The 700 club and the millions of Evangelicals sure weren't, they were and ARE Bush's support.
John Edwards was a terrible choice for John Kerry as his Vice pres running mate ! I think Kerry tried to pull off a JFK/LBJ trick--Im a Yankee and I'll pick this smooth, young southern attorney guy to pull in the vote from the South !!
****But Edwards could not even deliver his own state in Carolina for his party---Man, if you're a politician and canot even bring your home-state to the party table--what good are you??? Yep, he was a fast riser lawyer, handsome and gets $300 hair cuts, family man, seemingly to care about poverty and middle America issues.
****My surprise was his success at bringing himself back up as a Pres contender in the primaries==his throw of support to Obama was a biggie which may have kept him on the short list as potential Obama running mate==up to last week !!
****Keep in mind that all during the Monica thing and his impeachment, Pres Clinton held a 70% popularity rating among all Americans==we are not too dumb and are able to separate the human error from the leadership qualities which Pres Bill did have !! ***Regarding the 8 percent popularity of the US Congress job performance , most of the above posts demonstrate they deserve it, for their twisted morality and their Culture of Corruption in the halls of our Government !! Once again we are not too dumb as the polls indicate==but also once again we Voters are left to pick the lesser of two evils, and not the best of the best !
The corporate Democrats now in power in that party form the deceptive progressive "Trojan Horse" of the totalitarian corporate regime in America. The corporate Repubicans form the out-in-the-open, pro-torture, militarism of the totalitarian corporate regime in America. The morality that Zunes points out as distorted is exactly that: a morality of the law of force and minority rule by the corporate rich.
That's why Edwards and his progressive rhetoric (and perhaps his progressive transformation) are out.
One needs to reach no further than Obama's comments about the Sermon on the Mount (which embodies universal morality of compassion and love) to support the conclusion of Zunes in this article:
Obama said:
"Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?"
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/
It is sameness not change that Obama and the Dems represent, for the Sermon on the Mount and its "blessed are the peacemakers" message are exactly the change America and the world needs.
Regardless of which warmongering president we get, once this election is over, we have a progressive, constitutional revolution to bring about.
Amen, Brother Zunes! The hypocrisy of the Demorats is nauserating! The deck is stacked an d yet the American populace, the Dumb and Dumbers and Naivete's, refuse to see it.
They would rather staym mesmerized by the coporate media's smoke and mirror circus and all the juicy rumors and inneundos of Edwards affair rather than the truth of what is going on in the world and how Obama is part of the problem not the solution.
If there exists a glimmer of hope that American's will wake up intime it will come in a huge adhoc movement during the Democratic and Republican Conventions to demand that the debates be opened up to Nadar of the Peace & Freedom Party and McKinney of the Green Party.
If there is no such adhoc movement and an open debate does not happen then we can be sure thatd the American spirit of real freedom and democracy is moribund and beyond hope!.
Vote for Nadar! Demand that Obama and McCain open up the debate!
"It is also profoundly disappointing that Obama — who, despite the North Carolina senator's earlier war-mongering, praised Edwards in his 2004 keynote address before the Democratic National Convention — apparently agrees with these distorted priorities."
In all due respect this is muddled reasoning. Was Obama supposed to trash the Democratic Party in his convention speech in 2004? Was his decision not to really suggest that he "apparently agrees with these distorted priorities"?
The superior moral argument against the invasion of Iraq has finally prevailed in the Democratic Party and in America. Let's focus on electing the candidate who had judgment in 2002 to oppose it.
If Dennis Kucinich had given a speech at the convention and not trashed John Edwards would he be being treated the same way as Obama is by those of you who apparently are voting for John McCain?
Barack Obama is a legislator, not a messiah. Legislators make compromises and get the ball rolling. Its up to activists to push legislators to make the right choices. You can't blame Obama for putting the Democratic Party on a firm anti-war footing in 2008 because he didn't do it sooner.
Let's look at the record, Obama made this speech when the Clintons were still 'invincible':
"Some seek to rewrite history. They argue that they weren't really voting for war, they were voting for inspectors, or for diplomacy. But the Congress, the Administration, the media, and the American people all understood what we were debating in the fall of 2002. This was a vote about whether or not to go to war. That's the truth as we all understood it then, and as we need to understand it now. And we need to ask those who voted for the war: how can you give the President a blank check and then act surprised when he cashes it?…"- Barack Obama, October 2007
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/02/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_27.php
And made this speech as a not well-known Illinois politician, (too advance his career? give me a break.):
"What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.
But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars."- Barack Obama, October 2002
Little Brother:
"... the irony-rich truth is that the Clintons are too embedded in the Democratic power structure to let them get away with making Bill wait in the car during the convention."
Speaking of "waiting in the car," I once heard a story about the actress Tallulah Bankhead that fits Bill and Hillary to a tee.
It seems that Tallulah was in a restaurant, dining with "Husband Number Four," or maybe it was "Husband Number Five," somewhere around there. ... And into the restaurant walks "Husband Number Two," who Tallulah hadn't seen in years.
Without looking up from her meal, Tallulah said to Husband Number Two: "Didn't I tell you to wait in the car!"
Poor Bill Clinton. What if Hillary had won the nomination and chose Paula Jones as her running mate?
And who would Monica have voted for? (Inquiring minds want to know.)
And, while we're at it -- Did Bill, consciously or unconsciously, sabotage Hillary's campaign? It sure seems that way, doesn't it?
What, one wonders, was said privately between Ma and Pa Clinton after Bill put his foot in his mouth once too often?
-- Bill, are you tryin' to fark me over?
-- Why no, honeybunch, I'd never do that. ... Fark you over. ... Perish the farkin' thought. You lost because you just don't have my "communication skills." ... You know as well as I do that I can "lay down a load" with the best to them!
-- Well, how exactly do I acquire those communication skills?
-- Practice, practice, practice.
-- I see. ... And what do you think of John Edwards?
-- Practice, practice, practice.
trish,
I agree with you that sex scandals can't be a litmus test. But I think when someone's integrity is already in question something like an extra-marital affair further undermindes their credibility and trustworthiness.
For a long time I thought that folks just needed to leave Bill Clinton alone, but Monica-gate did matter. I completely disagree with the Republican assault on slick Willy, but nevertheless feel that the scandal revealed Clinton as a power-hungry scumbag. He's really done nothing in his career to make me think otherwise.
What has Edwards DONE to show that he isn't just interested in power over people?
Is it just me?
At 3:14 today I entered a post describing what I think is another egregious incidence of "twisted morality" of the Democratic Party, the apparent blindness of the Party and Obama's supporters to the indications of his possibly corrupt Illinois political connections. No one has yet commented, pro or con, on this posting or indicated whether they share my suspicion that this situation may well escalate into a "scandal" under the un-tender mercy of the Republican attack machine. The Democrats may throw Edwards under the bus, but what will happen if the Chief Under-the-bus-thrower himself becomes an impossible albatoss for any hope of a Democratic victory in the race for the White House?
.
I'll say it again…
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2000.
We needed Ralph Nader as President in 2004.
We NEED Ralph Nader as President in 2008.
Never before as we do now
http://www.votenader.org/index.html
.
There is no morality in marketing.
lefk
1. He did verbally take a stance against corporate greed. This to me was quite astounding. Maybe it was BS and he never could deliver on the stance in any substantive way. Maybe it was phony posturing under cover of his $400 haircut, but he said it. He put corporate profiteering out there as part of the national debate. Thank God I say. (Thank you Kucinich too.)
2. I dunno.....they all fool around don't they? We have to get over that being a litmus test. I'm disappointed for sure. But is spousal fidelity a qualification for public service? Looks like George and Laura are pretty solid. He's not exactly my kinda prez.
I save so much money not-buying multiple vitamins, because I consume well in excess of the minimum daily requirement for irony just by checking the news-- irony-poor blood is a thing of the past!
When the "top-tier", "viable" Dem candidates emerged, I presciently dubbed them "The Mod Squad": Pete, Linc, and Julie.
I never could quite settle on whether "Pete" Edwards is indeed an occasionally inspiring pretty boy, or whether he truly has redeeming populist/progressive beliefs. The question is moot, now. Amerika's atavistic puritanical streak of sexual retardation is pathetic and tragic, and the pathological mix of repugnance and fascination lays a cruel and unfair trap for politicians. (Did you catch "lays" in there?)
Because the fact remains that being caught with one's pants down after facing down the world with fervent denials about personal dalliances means that one may henceforth justifiably be condemned as a lying sack of shit. (To a point-- unless crowded by circumstances. See below.) Gaining a political life in this quagmire of hypocrisy, with its miasma of prurience, DOES mean losing a private life, rightly or wrongly.
My guess is that Edwards will be a second Gary Hart-- another politician with a glimmer of promise who indulged a politically self-destructive propensity for philandering and denying it. The stink does eventually subside, but Democrats never seem to rebound to a point where they can make it back into the starting lineup.
All THAT said, it's certainly no surprise that the Dem leadership is shunning Edwards; it strikes me as exactly the same approach Al Gore took to Bill Clinton. The Democrats aspire to a nauseatingly pious "squeaky-clean"ness-- ergo that abomination called Joe Lieberman, who slouched towards the Veep spot in 2000 because of his preposterous reputation for being morally upright and pure. HoJoe was insurance against the prospect of Gore being contaminated by a still-radioactive Bill.
Obama, despite some equivocal revelations about recreational drug use, is still pretty much coming off as a Boy Scout-- reverent, brave, thrifty, etc. And, as Joe Biden helpfully noted, "clean"-- a good, clean-cut Negroish man without a particle of venality or proclivity for sins of the flesh. This is no time for Obama to embrace and forgive sleazy sinners; the convention is Obama's glorious public baptism, in which the way must be prepared to allow the Voice of God to boom, "This is my Beloved Son, in Whom I take delight!"
And just to prove to all of the pragmatists and realists out there that I grok their attitude, the irony-rich truth is that the Clintons are too embedded in the Democratic power structure to let them get away with making Bill wait in the car during the convention.
Edwards is expendable; Bill is not. So Bill gets a pass, and is waved with apparent enthusiasm to the podium without the slightest suggestion that HIS "moral standards" don't make the cut.
It doesn't get marc richer-- whoops, I meant MUCH richer-- than this.
Twisted morality? What's morality got to do with it?
How 'bout just plain ole TWISTED?
GKL said: "But then who or what would admit to having sex with him?"
I think Pelosi would. Everytime I see her photo with Bush, she looks like an adoring school-girl. I think she's totally in love with him, which of course explains partially why she protects him.
Rtdrury,
In a previous post, you quoted Noam Chomsky …
"The question (Chomsky writes) is, are we capable of applying to ourselves the same criteria we apply to others. You can say that's a moral principle if you like. But it's so elementary that if we can't accept it, we might as well admit we are Nazis."
That quote reminds me of Chomsky making the same point, this time as regards "terrorism."
Noam Chomsky in a recent interview
" ...what I write causes extreme anger for the very simple reason that I use the U.S. government's official definition of terrorism from the official U.S. code of laws. If you use that definition, it follows very quickly that the U.S. is the leading terrorist state and a major sponsor of terrorism and since that conclusion is unacceptable, it arouses furious anger.
"But the problem lies in the unwillingness to recognize that your own terrorism is terrorism. This is not just true of the United States, it's true quite generally. Terrorism is something that they do to us. In both cases, it's terrorism and we have to get over that if we're serious about the question."
Click here for the entire interview -- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15416.htm
And this also from Chomsky in a recent "CounterPunch" article:
" ... terrorism (according to the US definition of terrorism, from the official US code of laws) is 'the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature ... through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear,' typically targeting civilians.
"The British government's definition is about the same: 'Terrorism is the use, or threat, of action which is violent, damaging or disrupting, and is intended to influence the government or intimidate the public and is for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, or ideological cause.'
"These definitions seem fairly clear and close to ordinary usage. There also seems to be general agreement that they are appropriate when discussing the terrorism of enemies.
"But a problem at once arises. These definitions yield an entirely unacceptable consequence: it follows that the *US* is a leading terrorist state ..." (Asterisks added.)
Click here for the entire article, "The Terrorist in the Mirror," http://www.counterpunch.org/chomsky01242006.html
The same can be true for words like "aggressor" and "invasion." We're not the aggressors in the Middle East, we didn't invade Iraq and Afghanistan. We're just there to "pacify" Iraq. Oh, yeah, and to promote and guarantee democracy.
And we don't have weapons of mass destruction. ... Oh, ok, we do. ... But we would never use them. ... Oh, ok, we did. ... But we didn't mean to kill innocent civilians. ... Oh, ok we did. ... But, but: we really didn't kill "innocent civilians" -- those dead people weren't even dead people, they're "collateral damage."
Indeed, what does the US government call one of its most lethal nuclear weapon systems
-- "The Peacekeeper."
And we don't "arm space," all we want to do is "build a shield" against enemy attack.
In a previous post, KaneJeeves wrote:
"I once had a conversation with a die hard conservative Repub about how bad Bush was compared to Clinton. I said 'Bush is responsible for the deaths of 1000's.' His response was 'yah, but come on Clinton had sex in the White House and cheated on his wife.'
"I was stunned. But I think I know why that response now. If you believe everything US does is by definition correct (i.e. believe in American Exceptionalism) then Bushes actions are justified. Clinton's on the other hand don't fall under the purview of American Exceptionalism, so they are in fact worse."
But I think it's something even beyond American Exceptionalism, Kane. ... In 1988, Garry Will wrote a book called "Reagan's America; Innocents At Home," in it he wrote:
"The truth about (America's) actual behavior, whether on the old frontier or the new, is as threatening to our sense of identity as the terrorist himself."
Americans for the most part are in a state of denial -- historical denial, psychological denial and ethical denial. And, as such, Ronald Reagan was, and remains, their emotional hero.
Because Reagan was so much more than a mere propagandist – he actually *believed* the cover story. So that when his handlers sent him out to lie about this and lie about that, he actually came to believe the cover story, he actually believed the lie!
So that here was this ... shield. You know, and what possible harm could a peace-loving nation like the Untied States do putting a "shield" in outer space to protect against nuclear attack?
And here was "poor little Kuwait," being attacked by "big bad Saddam Hussein."
Reagan was great at telling morality tales -- even if the moral itself was contradicted by the American government's own egregious actions!
Reagan is greatly loved by millions of Americans because, like them, he thoroughly believed American myths.
George Bush does, too; so did Richard Nixon; but their lies are not as convincingly told as "The Great Communicator." Because their faces are not that of Ronald Reagan. He smiles, theirs scowl. He soothes, theirs raise suspicions, even amongst the faithful, even amongst the flock.
Again, Garry Wills:
"Visiting Reaganland is very much like taking children to Disneyland. It is a safe past, with no sharp edges to stumble against. The more visits one makes to such a past, the better is one immunized against any troubling incursions of a real New Orleans ... the real American West. If capitalist 'conservatism' cannot be rooted in the real past it works to obliterate, then it will invent a deracinating past, a nostalgia for the new, a substitute history to lull us in the time machine that travels on no roads, reaching goals no one could plan. ...
"Reagan gives our history the continuity of a celluloid Mobius strip. We rides its curves backwards and forwards at the same time, and he is always there. There is an endlessness of surface that becomes a kind of depth … "
Enter Jerry Falwell. Enter the Christian fundies. Enter the evolutionists..
Wills:
"Only a believer could make Reagan's fictive past credible to others. Only a touch of fanaticism can hold out against all kinds of converging evidence. ... For many, Reagan is not only a comfort but a necessity. He is a demagogue as rabble-soother, at a time when people do not need to be stirred up by assuaged, to have anxieties dispelled, complexities resolved. They need to believe that the simpler past not only perdures but prevails."
And so this was the America Bush Sr., Bill Clinton and, in turn, Bush Jr. inherited from the Grand Master, Ronald Reagan. ... Except now things *are* stirred up. Things *are* beginning to unravel, with millions of Americans having a hard time maintaining the knee-jerk denial that so long has been their friend and companion.
So, it's not just a sense of "American exceptionalism," it's much more than that. It's a mythology, rooted in denial, that is so powerful that its antidote, the truth, would be several times more damaging than a thousand 9/11s.
This is a country that has yet to acknowledge the truth as regard countless historic events -- Scottsboro, Tuskeegee, Dresden, Ludlow, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Japanese "internment," Vietnam, the near-genocide of the American Indian, Cuba, Nicaragua, East Timor, Chile, New Orleans, the Palestinians, the economic sanctions against Iraq. The list goes on and on. ... And here we are in Gulf War 2, with over 1,000,000 Iraqis dead. And counting.
As things are going now, given that "American denial" is still in full-force, 20 years from now some curious soul might ask -- Why in the world wasn't Bush impeached for invading Iraq? ... Why did both parties let him get away with what he did? ... The same can be asked of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon, just substitute Vietnam for Iraq.
And corporate-controlled, corporate-sponsored mainstream media, will they ever admit America is less than great? Of course not.
And on it goes. Mythology. Exceptionalism. Denial. ... "The Great Communicator" lives on!
As one of the crew of the Pequoid said of Captain Ahab: "He's dead, but he beckons."
I would not vote for Bill Clinton. His personal and political lives don't deserve a distinction. Were Clinton a great humanitarian I would forgive the personal sins without hesitation. The truth is that Bill Clinton is not a trustworthy politician or a trustworthy man.
Let me get this straight, Edwards is not allowed to speak due to his affair, and Bill Clinton does. Now don't get me wrong, I think they both should speak. Bush and Cheney destroy America on so many different levels, and they are welcomed with open arms at their convention. And Democrats are worried about what these people on the right think, for what reason. Great, punish Edwards for a sexual dalliance, but let the crime family of the Bush administration just walk away scott free, with not even a slap on the wrist. Yep, this party's moral compass is severly damaged and twisted.
I would vote for JFK again (well, if he were alive that is), I would vote for Bill Clinton again, and I would vote for John Edwards again - IF sexual peccadillos were their greatest "crime."
Of course I'm not a democrat or republican. Guess that does make a distinction.
I wonder if Pelosi would have had impeachment on the table if W had been lying about a sexual affair instead of just WMDs, torture and everything else. But then who or what would admit to having sex with him?
trishlane August 12th, 2008 5:26 pm
i always admired edwards' anti-corporate stance. i think politicians shouldn't be asked questions about their personal life. it's none of our business.
I feel that my response to your first contention has to be left-wing. My response to your second might sound more right-wing but I don't think it is.
1.Edwards is a member of the political elite. He is a rich trial lawyer and phony as his 400 dollar haircuts. He never made any serious challenge to the powerful folks who control the Democratic party. I don't think president Edwards would have stood up to powerful corporate interests.
2. I think personal lives do matter. Not that I want everybody delving into people's personal issues, but the fact is that people who are opportunists in the political world are going to be opportunisits in their personal lives. I'm not sure that the opposite is true, but in any case I think this affair only further undermined Edward's honesty and integrity. It takes character to stand up to corporations and Edwards doesn't seem to have a lot of that.
There is only one viable political party in the US, and most of us know that. Both parties represent ONLY the interests of the rich, and both have grotesquely exploited the poor. Both are pro-war; Obama's preference is for war in Afhanistan, while McCain appears to prefer moving into Iran. America today is like a house with a crumbling foundation, about to collapse. Instead of rebuilding the foundation, both candidates have their sites set on reselling the fallen lumber and bricks as soon as the building collapses.
We could vote for a third party candidate, but it wouldn't change anything. In the past, we could say that it forced the two parties to recognize the support for anything other than the corporate agenda, but I really think it's too late for that to matter anymore. Talking about campaign finance reform -- a priority for at least the past 50 years -- hasn't accomplished a whole lot; US politics, after all, is owned by the rich. They are the deciders, and without widespread revolt, this isn't going to change.
i always admired edwards' anti-corporate stance. i think politicians shouldn't be asked questions about their personal life. it's none of our business.
Just another dot to connect when considering the 'Democrats twisted morality'.
Think about taking impeachment 'off the table'. The Constitution is crafted to create 'seperate but co-equal' branches of government that provide 'checks and balances' against any one branch grabbing two much power for themselves. This is the most fundamental guarantee of our liberties that the writers of the Constitution could give us.
On top of that, each member of Congress takes an oath of office to 'protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.'
When the Democrats talk about taking 'impeachment off the table', they always talk politics. They don't refute all the potential charges against Bush and Cheney. They don't present evidence that no crimes were committed. Instead they talk about politics. They talk about being afraid of a 'backlash'. They talk as if taking this course in blocking impeachment is something that will help them win the next election.
In essence, they are willing to destroy the Constitution of the United States of America, let the best protection of our liberties collapse, and violate a solemn oath they took upon taking office .... all for the shallow and greedy purpose of trying to promote their own grab for political power.
The bizarre thing is that anyone would ever be willing to elect such people or such a party to positions of responsibility.
To Jerry Rose. I liked your post a lot, but there is one detail I thought I'd point out. I lived in GA up through 2003. With Rep. Cynthia McKinney, there were two major attempts to kick her out of Congress. One in 2002. Then, after she won her seat back in 2004, there was a second in 2006. I lived in GA during the 2002 elections, and volunteered on her campaign.
In 2002, it was as much a Democratic attempt to kick her out of Congress as it was a Republican operation. Essentially they both sided against her. The candidate who they picked to run against her was a protege of Democratic Senator and former Governor Zell Miller. And as you can expect, when someone is both a former Governor and sitting US Senator, they are probably the most powerful elected official in the party. The campaign against Ms. McKinney was funded by Zell Miller contributors and the consultants who normally worked a Zell Miller campaign were working for Magette, Ms. McKinney's opponent.
Magette held the seat for just two years. Then the other part of the deal between her and the Democrats came into force and she made the run for the US Senate that they had promised her. But I guess she didn't get a promise that she would win as she finished way down a crowded primary field.
But, in 2002 at least, it was very clear that it was the Democrats who attacked Cynthia McKinney as much as the Republicans. The Republicans contributed their part, crossing over in large numbers to vote in the Democratic side of the 'open' primary. But it was very, very clear that the Democrats wanted Cynthia McKinney gone as much as the Republicans did.
I wasn't in GA in 2006, so I can't speak to that campaign.
anbaric_lite ... it might help you if you knew that Nader is not running on the Green Party ticket. Former Rep. Cynthia McKinney is the Green Party nominee. Nader is running as an independent.
I'm waiting to watch Edwards over the next few years to see what he does.
For instance, if he's really serious about his drives to fight poverty and help workers, we'll know it. Its pretty obvious that he won't be running for President in 2008. So, if he's really serious about these efforts and puts a lot of effort into them, we'll see that he really means it.
At this point, I don't know. I see the rhetoric and the positions taken in his last campaign. But are they for real? Who can tell? Unless you've got some sort of psychic power to read the man's soul, you probably can't know for sure.
But time will tell.