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Like a Mirage in the Desert: US Exit From Iraq May Recede Into the Time Horizon
Key advisors to Barack Obama have put forward an Iraq withdrawal policy which they have labeled "conditional engagement." In their words:
"Under this strategy, the ... time horizon for redeployment would be negotiated with the Iraqi government and nested within a more assertive approach to regional diplomacy. The United States would make clear that Iraq and America share a common interest in achieving sustainable stability in Iraq, and that the United States is willing to help support the Iraqi government and build its security and governance capacity over the long-term, but only so long as Iraqis continue to make meaningful political progress." [from Colin Kahl, Michele A. Flournoy and Shawn Brimley, "Shaping the Iraq Inheritance," Center for a New American Security, June 2008.]
This policy may as well be called "conditional withdrawal" because the degree and speed of withdrawal is related directly to "conditions" of progress that are largely dependent on the cooperation of Iraqis and on continuing intrusive military activity by the US. Such conditionality of withdrawal makes this centrist Democratic policy approach much closer than many realize to the Republican position of "staying until victory." In this case victory is defined as "sustainable stability."
The goal of stable, secure, well-governed, and prosperous Iraq is a worthy one, especially for Iraqis. It is the work of decades, not years. It is principally a political job and it is principally the job of Iraqis. We must get over the notion that stabilizing Iraq is something for the US to do; that it is something the US can do. US troops have in effect been destabilizing Iraq since the invasion and Iraq can only move so far toward re-stabilizing as long as US troops remain in that country.
Nevertheless, Iraqis will continue to need substantial international support. Since US intervention is a contributing factor to Iraqi national problems, effective outside help will have to move through international agency, not bilateral arrangements or narrow multi-lateral arrangements dominated by Western nations. Support dominated by the US will continue to get in the way of progress. Therefore any strategy that involves staying militarily in order to achieve stability is in fatal tension with itself. It is easy to see how such a strategy will keep US armed forces in Iraq for decades to come.
Looking at the details of the conditional engagement policy proposal, one finds structures of dependency that have no end point. For instance, the Center for a New American Security report suggests that the US will need to manage the Sons of Iraq formations the US has been supporting by "preventing them from acquiring heavy weapons, tightly restricting their jurisdictions and movement, and closely monitoring them for compliance so that they do not rub up against rival militias." Such a level of control over native forces is more typical of a colonial power, and certainly not a reasonable mission for an army that is planning to leave anytime soon. Embrace that sort of mission and you will be there for a very long time.
I was one of the organizers of the Task Force for a Responsible Withdrawal from Iraq. We have published a set of 25 initiatives that complement and support a short timeline military withdrawal. We call for getting all the troops out within eighteen months while also remaining responsibly engaged by non-military means in Iraq and the region. We would disengage from failed policies of the past -- policies based on strategic error and that have led us into a strategic disaster.
Military occupation of Iraq is the central feature of this strategic error. No amount of clever adjustment at the tactical and operational levels will get us where we need to be. Only strategic change can get us on the road to recovery.
Three fundamental strategic errors have been made:
First, the US miscalculated what might be accomplished by force of arms and failed to appreciate the limits on the utility of military power;
Second, our leaders in Washington failed to appreciate the power and dynamics of identity politics... and the likely reaction to foreign occupation.
Third, the US failed to take seriously the importance of international cooperation and legitimacy in the eyes of the world. The price the US and others are paying for these blunders is not measured in blood and treasure alone -- although these costs are already terribly high. One example of these extraordinary costs we have addressed in the Task Force report:
There are now millions of refugees and millions of internally displaced persons, totaling nearly 15% of the Iraq population. The displacement of a proportional number of Americans would mean: 45 million forced from their homes, the equivalent of emptying out the population of America's ten largest cities. This happened under the American watch in Iraq. It is an immense failure for an occupying power; one still receiving the most 'care less' of responses from Washington.
In addition the US has:
* weakened and misdirected its security assets -- since 2004 the Army has been at an unsustainable operational tempo with accumulating harm to that service;
* severely damaged its reputation, especially in the Muslim world;
* damaged its alliances;
* created a catalyst for communal conflict and provided a recruiting gift to Iraqi extremists;
* provided a motivator for jihadism and for terrorist tactics worldwide;
* handed Iran strategic and economic benefits which accrue every day US troops remain in Iraq;
* tarnished the meaning and the promise of democracy -- and undermined efforts to promote it. Moving from the level of strategy to consider US operational policy in Iraq, it becomes clear that we must proceed on an entirely new basis -- one that puts the Iraqis at the center and that gathers the international community to our side as equal partners in supporting reconciliation and recovery for this traumatized society.
The "new basis" necessarily begins with setting a credible -- meaning short -- timeline for withdrawal. This, because:
Withdrawal is essential to drawing the remaining "rejectionists", Sunni and Shia alike, into the political process;
Withdrawal is essential to further reducing the appeal of al Qaeda in Mesopotamia;
Withdrawal is essential to restoring the credibility of the Iraqi government as sovereign and as a leader of an inclusion and reconciliation process, and;
Withdrawal is essential to unblocking international cooperation -- especially that of key contact states -- who can do more to help stabilize Iraq.
Only some of the benefits of setting a credible withdrawal timeline will materialize simply by announcing the withdrawal. In addition it will take effective diplomacy and considerable resources, before and after, to draw the rejectionists in and catalyze international cooperation and support. Much of this is specified in the Task Force Report.
The "new basis" of policy implies a new realism about what the US can hope to accomplish in Iraq and how. It means finally coming to terms with a number of uncomfortable facts:
* American military presence and action has been part of the problem. ... It is an affront to Iraqi national and communal identities. And a stimulant to rejectionism and insurgency and violence;
From the start, the US has been handicapped by being an alien power in Iraq. It means US troops are judged by a different standard. And it tars everyone who works with the US ... it makes suspect every process the US presumes to lead.
* US "moral authority"... the ability to truly win "hearts and minds" in sufficient numbers has been undercut by too much firepower and too many house raids, checkpoint killings, road rams, jailings, and varied abuses of power. (Others may have done much worse, but that doesn't matter. The US in Iraq is judged differently because it is an alien presence in Iraqi culture.)
* US authority is also undercut because US troops and contractors wear their privilege and self-interest on their sleeves. It's evident in the US insistence of immunity for its nationals and in the details of basing agreements and oil deals the US tries to cut.
So we shouldn't be surprised, when opinion polls find that very few Iraqis think the US is doing a good job in their country. Nor should we be surprised when focus groups conducted for the coalition military command find, as the Washington Post reports that "Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of 'occupying forces' as the key to national reconciliation." Sentiments like these contribute to Maliki's recent push back on basing agreements and to his support of a withdrawal timeline.
The surge has brought down the level of violence... and today the level of violence in Iraq is comparable, proportionately, to the worst years of the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. It is a very good thing that fewer are dying in Iraq, but that improvement alone is far from sufficient evidence from which to conclude that US policy is now on the right track.
And how did the reduction in violence come about? Not principally by the application of increased US military power or by adopting new counter-insurgency doctrine, but by accommodating and supporting the desire of Sunnis for local control and by "coming to terms" with Moqtada al-Sadr and by his decision, encouraged by Iran, to stand-down his armed contest with the Badr brigades.
As we assess the so-called "surge strategy," it is important to note its limits:
* The surge has reduced violence by leveraging and reinforcing the inter-communal and intra-communal divisions that plague Iraq -- think of the walls American soldiers have built to separate Sunni and Shia enclaves in Baghdad; And,
* The fact remains that none of the powerful Iraqi groups or leaders with whom the US is currently allied share the American vision or purpose -- not even the Kurds. US alliances inside Iraq are marriages of convenience -- and shaky ones at that.
Indeed, the surge marks the limit of what the United States might accomplish in Iraq by military means. Now the task is to bring into the political process most of the remaining rejectionists and to catalyze the type of international support that will facilitate this inclusion and a national accord. And this requires US military withdrawal.
Some proponents of staying warn us about backsliding if the US leaves, including the specter of a failed state wherein al Qaeda will thrive. This warning displays a basic misunderstanding of al Qaeda in Mesopotamia which was founded as a reaction to the US invasion. When the US leaves Iraq it looses its primary motivation for its adherents and rather than thrive, it is very likely to fade.
In addition, political instability does not equal a failed state -- there are many ways of avoiding that outcome that do not involve keeping US troops there indefinitely. Iraq is a traumatized society and that condition is a major contributing factor to why Iraq will be politically volatile for a long time to come. But seeking to shape or control Iraqi politics with Army brigades is to perpetuate the use of a blunt and inappropriate tool that does at least as much harm as it does good. Staying means staying for a very long time! US presence is one cause of the violence -- its troops will always be seen as a foreign invader to be resisted.
If it is strategically important to leave, we must understand that it is an illusion to think we'll just linger a while longer to fix things up in Iraq before we leave. As long as the US stays in Iraq the goal of national reconciliation will recede into the time horizon like a mirage in the desert.
Adapted from a panel presentation on The Future of the U.S. Military Presence in Iraq at the United States Institute of Peace, 25 July 2008. The panel consisted of Kimberly Kagan, Colin Kahl, Charles Knight, and Rend al-Rahim, with Daniel Serwer, moderator.
Charles Knight is the co-director of the Project on Defense Alternatives.

34 Comments so far
Show All"tarnished the meaning and the promise of democracy"
Yup, that is a biggie. Even as US media talking heads are still quacking about how difficult it is for the noble, altruistic US government to bring democracy to the savages at the barrel of a gun, the natives have long since figured out what Americans really mean by "democracy". It has set the international community, and Iraqis, way back.
The first time I heard the word horizon I knew what they meant. They plan to stay forever.
You never reach the place where the sky meets the earth.
And that's why America needs to snap out of the two party DUOPOLY and give 3rd/Independent parties a chance !
RALPH NADER FOR PRESIDENT !!!!
VOTENADER.ORG
The idea of this "time horizon" is to render it a moot point during the election in order to deny the Dims an issue. After that the horizon will keep moving back -- especially if Iran is attacked (and a fleet of ships is in route).
A "time horizon for redeployment" of US forces that would be "negotiated" is no withdrawal plan at all. In fact, it is conceptually indistiguishable from Bush's current Iraq occupation policy, which already involves extensive behind-closed-doors negotiations with the Maliki regime and various other sectarian factions outside the government to set some sort of a time deadline for withdrawal (without actually calling it a time deadline for withdrawal), all contingent upon future events that the parties to the discussions really cannot control.
There is simply no way to end the military occupation of a foreign country by playing with the semantics. If you do not order your armed forces to leave and return home, then you are staying. Pretty simple and straight foward proposition.
Bill from Saginaw
The situation is disgusting beyond measure. Back before this mess even began, the very same "practical people" who drug us into it were warned that they weren't prepared for any of these possibilities, and they blew off all caution and pursued this course anyway. And look where we are now.
Now we are expected to follow even more of their non-existent wisdom. Nothing doing. All I've seen this last five years is hardcore evidence that the problems of late capitalism alluded to by Lenin in his pamphlet "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism" were right on the money. Capitalism can't exist without imperialism, for if it could, it would. When I first read that pamphlet as a young "vanguardist" almost thirty years ago, I took it with a huge grain of salt. Now every time I hear Obama or any of our so-called liberal allies rationalizing a deepening of the invasion and occupation, I realize Old V.I. was a wiser fool then he's portrayed as. In fact, the longer this mess goes on, I'm more sure that the reason his name is visited with so much calumny anymore is that he unearthed some basic truths the postmoderns don't want to concern themselves with until after the fact.
And the world burns...
Ghandi told the British that one day they would leave India. The Brits scoffed and in their minds pissed on Ghandi's head but the day came when indeed they left. The cause: World War II bankrupted an already exhausted Great Britain and they could no longer hold on to their Empire. We, too, will go bankrupt after 4 years of yet more brutal and teeth grindingly stupid rule by John McCain, aided by the congressional Traitorcrats. The mountain of shit on the "horizon" grows exponentially by the day. Like Sisyphus, we keep pushing the rock of our own foolishness up that mountain. One day it will eventually collapse and bury us all.
While Knight's "Task Force for a Responsible Withdrawal from Iraq" offers some excellent proposals and attempts to be comprehensive, it has one deep (possibly fatal) flaw:
The Task Force lists only one (ex-patriot) Iraqi, as a member of its advisory committee.
This kind of cultural myopia is self-defeating, and a bit hypocritical and arrogant.
For example, there is no mention whatsoever of the Iraqi labor movement in the Task Force's executive summary. This is a serious omission. Unlike the U.S., the Iraq labor movement is a considerable social and political force in that nation.
Another omission is representation from the many Iraqi political parties. Also unlike the U.S., Iraq has an extremely diverse multi-party political setup, which means they must be considered in any reconciliation/reconstruction plan.
Finally, per usual, there is no mention of the "special" U.S./Israeli relationship, a prime cause of instabilty throughout the region.
If a significant number of Iraqis, from diverse places in the political spectrum, were to take part in the work of the Task Force, the results would be quite different.
Hey, Iraq, just kick the American twits out right now. We people who think this way are Americans, too, but unlike them support you as well as America's place in the world. We have a song: "Hit the road, Jack, and don'tcha come back no more, no more..." We are unalterably opposed to the UnAmericans who stupidly put us there and stupidly kept us there, and will still be known as stupid a hundred years from now.
The U.S. will not leave Iraq.
U.S. Military presence will be in Iraq for 50 to 100 years.
Every since the military constructed in Iraq 6 visible bases and 1 fortress embassy it was clear they had no intention of leaving.
Any talk of leaving is political mis-direction (lying). When there's no oil left in the middle east and Israel's security is assured then, maybe, the U.S. will leave.
A millennium hence, this period may look much like the 11th century crusade periods, particularly since it employs many of the same old methods and tactics.
for ref. God's War: a New History of the Crusades (2006) - Christopher Tyerman
Obama has committed the one sin which we must not tolerate: lying, to which his switch on withdrawal is tantamount. it is time to think the unthinkable: build a third party at the risk of McBrainfarts in the WH.
Has anyone had the temerity to accuse the U.S. of A. of arrogance in the extreme after years of piling up an ever increasing record of botched accomplishments in the Middle East, specifically in Iraq and also in Palestine/Israel? How dare we promote the idea that we (the U.S) are the only ones who can produce a plan for peace in the middle east when we are the very creators of the mess there as successors to the 19th and early 20th century colonialists? The best move we could make would be to assume the fiscal responsibility for Iraqi recovery and turn the oversight of peacekeeping and restoration of Iraqi political control over to a consortium of European and Middle Eastern couhntries under the supervision and guidance of the United Nations.
The USA can't pull out of Iraq, and it can't stay in.
So, it will twirl on until we can't do either.
THIS JUST IN. ...
**********************************************
US presence in Iraq has destablizing Iraq.
... With John McCain and Barack Obama vowing to stay in Iraq until Iraq is stabilized!
**********************************************
Pretty funny, huh? I bet you think that's a gag out of "Catch-22." It's not.
But wait, wait, I got another one for ya.
**********************************************
The US government has told the American public that "If the United States leaves Iraq, chaos will ensue." ... With the US presence in Iraq being the primary source of chaos!
**********************************************
I know, I know, you're rolling on the floor, right? Because, let's face it, fellow bipeds, this is comedy. And burlesque comedy at that.
These are the kind of jokes that used to be told by comedians in baggy pants and big floppy shoes; just before the gals came out and took their clothes off.
The guys that are telling you these crazy things -- and that expect you to accept these crazy, insance things -- are clowns, buffoons.
But they're not just clowns and buffoons. They're sick clowns, and murderous buffoons.
Gorillas in suits.
And the only reason why they keep telling you these sick jokes is BECAUSE YOU KEEP VOTING FOR THEM!
BECAUSE YOU KEEP VOTING FOR THEM!!
BECAUSE YOU KEEP VOTING FOR THEM!!!
BECAUSE YOU KEEP VOTING FOR THEM!!!!
Evidently, they *enjoy* invading third world countries.
Evidently, they *enjoy* killing innocent civilians.
Evidently, they *enjoy* starving people, killing babies, making families homeless.
All the while serving as mouthpieces for Corporate America; all the while making their cronies rich.
These people are not just playing you for suckers -- so much so that P.T. Barnum must be rolling over in his grave, green with envy -- these people are also *criminally insane.*
Insane by any standard psychological criteria; and criminal by the very standards US judges established while trying Nazi butchers and Japanese warlords.
THESE PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALLY INSANE! And if you continue to vote for them, they're going to continue to act in a criminally insane way.
That being the case, one might well ask: are there any *sane* people to vote for this November?
Ironically enough (and by actual count) there are more sane people running for president than there are insane people running for president.
I mean, just look at your ballot. We have McCain and Obama -- both of whom have signed off on the above insanity, as well as loads *more* murder and mayhem -- both willing to make war in four (count 'em) four different countries -- AHH! but notice: compared to third party candidates on your ballot, THESE CRAZY PEOPLE ARE OUTNUMBERED! ... McKinney, Nader, a socialist or two. ... The two crazy people running for president are outnumbered!
No, no-no, I'm not making it up. I'm not asking you to take it on faith, I'm not asking you to believe anything that you can't see with your own eyes. ... The simple truth, the simple fact of the matter is: there are more sane people running for president than insane people.
Now (and here's the important part), now all you have to do is be registered as a certifiably-sane-person and *vote* for one of those sane candidates.
Give it a try. Because I guarantee: if you vote for more of the same, that's exactly what you'll get, more of the same.
What the author fails to mention, and indeed acknowledge, is the fact that the Bush administration insistence in staying in Iraq is based on the GREED of the new oil barrons of today. They want to control the oil in Iraq for many years to come! (ask McCain about his 100 years in Iraq comment).
It has nothing to do about "repairing" what we've broken (as Colin Powell was fond of saying).
Forget about these puny little occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. Pretty soon we'll be fighting the Russians.
Why aren't McKinney and Nader writing for CD? I keep hearing about how wonderful they are. I have heard nothing from them for months. If they have the courage of their convictions they should be out in front with them. They both seem like pitiful losers to me. And you gripers, write to the DNC and to Obama to espress your outrage. Give them specific changes that you would like to see. Complaining here isn't helpful. Going to the source is.
"American military presence and action has been part of the problem." I disagree. It is the whole problem. NOBODY would be even talking about Iraq if we had not invaded them.
The Europeans have become complicit in this regard to their eternal shame George C. Brown. and the populations are slowly becoming far less naive ever since Georgie boy became an embarrassment to humanitarian pretensions. Europe is still the weakest link in the chain of complete harmony for the neo cons agenda. The diversity of The European Union still renders it less compliant to madness and unlawful crimes abroad. N.A.T.O. is a different kettle of fish entirely and if ever an organisation should be opposed in its entirety it is this arms sucking, extremely expensive, war mongering and fascistic strongman, it is this entity. Nuclear war is on the horizon and there is no clean up scenario through scientific or technological evolution. The future generations are imperilled by as much as our own or more for the for foreseeable future unless this unnecessary militarisation of the western alliance can be arrested soon.
Resources should be shared among all the powers in an Internationally negotiated in an equitable fashion and company law must be entirely reformed to protect the weaker nations. But that of course entails curtailments on greed and corruption which has become ingrained almost as a natural or inherent right by our puppet masters? Fat chance of that and big chance of real war against some big guns. That's much more likely soon enough. We are all obliged noy to ever underesitimate the obvious potentials being created for the sudden outbreak of full scale wars across this suffering planet. We cannot say we weren't warned or were unaware of these dangers. Our behaviour does much to ensure such a scenario. All options are on the table. That sounds tough and is alive and well too. Think per-emptive and preventative as the opening of this Pandora's box. The rapid recognition of Kosovo, the NATO bombing of Yougoslavia, lthe laughable irony of 'The Peace Process' in 'The Holy Land'. Goodwill to all men, the pursuit of happiness and our Christian values, 'the world community' and our appeals for constraint and diplomacy, our calls for freely contested democratic elections, our support of odious leaders we force populations to be subjected to so we can live our dreams, our unabashed bias and racism in supporting a Jewish State on another peoples land and our blatant hypocrisy and double standards only compile our criminal complicity across this globe. There may well come a time where fight or flight will become all too a reality for us all.
But nuclear war is our biggest danger because when another major terrorist attack is perpetrated in the United States nobody in the rest of the world in their right minds expects that the USA will react rationally. Indeed, one would imagine here would be serious attention to the fostered assumption that those who most hate our freedoms and are somewhat even jealous of this wonderful bounty bestowed on mainly white people and their allies in democratic elections. But we jailed the innocent. That's what we do best and mostly after killing millions more and torturing the remainder who are not lucky enough to be refugees or displaced in abject poverty. We imprison them, refuse to recognise their democracy, their leadership and happily and greedily deal and wheel with the resources that keep us and nobody else fat through our complicit friendly top family dictators. We write reports and sound off about human rights and we speak with much forked tongues in International forums laughing our way to the bankers. We are the prison guards of these imprisoned. And they are innocent. And the guards know it. But it pays well as does the benefits accruing from being a Jew in a racist state whatever the view point of the Jew there.
But Israel is not bad when you look at Algeria or any other example? In fact its positively........
We must concern ourselves with the truth. We must work for Peace with Justice. But surely justice is based on the rule of law? Is there to ever be Justice on this earth. Is mankind capable of seeking it? We must. It is the only real honest and truthful way we can reconcile and make this planet work with us again. Too much blood in being spilt and so much more will be inevitably if we don't really fight again for Justice and diplomacy. In relatively free societies in 'the western world' we just like relatively free Israeli citizens cannot really comprehend the law of Karma or the teachings of the top religious schools about the equivalence of an after-life being dependent on our actions in this allotted time on earth. To usurp the name Christian in the conduct of human rights atrocities abroad is obscene. Yet obscenity appears to be the norm now. It is open and not hidden. It is casually accepted along with what's sometimes called the official truth. As in that its not an Israeli problem, it's a Palestinian one. Or listen to Bush giving out to The Russian's about starting wars? Russia is a bit bigger than Iraq or Lebanon. And Putin and the Oligarchs don't exactly go for true Christian values either when it comes to Muslims. But there are valued resources to be fought for. I'm sure the Afghanis must have a view on NATO and Russia moving more closely towards conflict. Divide and rule helps to use against your oppressors too.
Here is the Bush and McCain plan for for withdrawing US troops from Iraq.
"We can't withdraw while there is chaos, and instability in Iraq."
"Even though Iraq has been stablized, We can't start withdrawing troops because it will fall into chaos again if we do."
Now that's a horizon plan, and is not remotely related to conditions on the gronnd."
A PASSION PLAY
Iraqi: Why are you in my country?
US: To better help you. We don't want Iraq to be a failed state, we need to stay there until it's a successful state.
Iraqi: What is fail state? What is successful state?
US:
Failed State:
1. Makes decisions based on its own self interest not the interests of the US
2. Do what is best their people
3. Figure out their own problems free from outside influence
Successful State:
1. Are dominated by the US
2. Have a puppet government that has been vetted and approved by the US
3. Do what is in the best interest of US corporations
4. Screw their people
Iraqi: Okay I don't want your help, so please leave.
US: I am here to "help" you and insist on staying.
Iraqi: Who is in charge here?
US: You are.
Iraqi: Okay, then leave.
US: Look, it's the oil stupid and we don't leave until we secure it.
US: Got it?
Iraqi: Got it.
Iraqi: How long will that take?
US: Obama and McCain think it will be about 18 months.
Iraqi: Thanks.
US: You are very welcome.
The Best part of the Iraqi war is:
1: All the DHS local Communtiy watch Stazi organizations.
Naton wide Warrantless Surviellance.
2: All the money spent on the Fatherland " Homeland" protecting us from Home Grown Terrorits. 400 billion/8 years
3: The Patriot Act.
4: Illegal Warrantless Law Agency Activities. Ask Mayor Calvo. Whos dogs were killed in a warrantless raid at his homelast week.
5: Illeagal WARRANTLESS electronic wire tapping / email tapping. NO CHECKS AND BALANCES.
Who's to stop them from digitally altering informtion to create false suspects. Keep the contract money coming.
6: Cheap Gasoline. 2001- $1.70 /gal 2008- $3.70/gal
7: Bush telling the Russians that they should not have invaded a Soveriegn country.
8: The Russians now doing exactly what we have done.
9: And we have asked for a cease fire.Right that will work.
10: Our illegal ocupation gave Russia a reason to start a new active war, hot , cold , who knows.But Russia has lots of Oil,money, and thier own Military Complex.
They sure as hell are not the Iraqi or Iran military.
You know we wont go to war with Russia.
Our country has been hijacked by the very agencys we trust to protect us.Congress, CIA, FBI, DHS.
And all the Military complex contractors and thier stock holders are laughing so hard, they need limos to drive them to thier banks.
Lets put all the nukes back in the Silos. lets start keeping tabs on all the Muslims and Russians in this country.
And of course , any Americans that have Russian and Muslim friends are on watch lists too.
Hell, lets round up all the Russians,Muslims and suspected Americans and stick them in Fema Camps.
And we realy still don't know what happend on 9/11.
BornFreeMen
As others have noted, as far as Iraq policy goes, voting for Obama will have the same results as voting for McCain. No surprise there, both are corporate vetted capitalist candidates. If you want to vote for true peace candidates, vote for the Brian Moore/Steward Alexander ticket of the Socialist Party USA. See:
http://votesocialist2008.org
On the ballot in New Jersey, Vermont, and Colorado, and as an official write-in candidate in Indiana and North Carolina.
i'm convinced the cornerstone in the wall of propaganda today is the idea that there have been 'strategic errors' made in a 'misconcieved war' mislead by an administration of 'idiots'.
those pulling the puppet strings would say everything is going as planned, not one missed step, from energy costs and a failing economy, to russia acting on the precedents they've set.
This entire sack of bovine excrement (article and comments) would have been both impossible and unneeded without 1913's double hijack of US income - the 16th amendment and the FED.
They were a true "axis of evil".
Someone above made a reference to comparing our attacking Iraq with Russia's recent military action against Georgia.
Call me un-American, call me unpatriotic, call be a dirty rotten pinko commie bastard if you will, but you cannot imagine the sheer delight I have felt these past few days seeing Bush & Cheney simmering over this situation.
Bush has condemed their actions; Cheney has issued a statement threatening Russia, not with military action on our part but rather how this could damage their relationship with us. Who the hell cares anymore about having any relationship with us, the world's biggest war-mongers.
When I caught a headline this morning that Russia had called a halt to the offense in Georgia, I think I felt a bit disappointed. It was so good seeing Dubya & Darth just stammering over something that they knew they couldn't do a damn thing about.
The above article about the Iraq timetable/horizon or whatever you want to call it is just another load of crap.
Sift through all the fancy words and phrases and you still come down to the dependency of the Iraqi government to stand on its own. We have been allowing them to use us as a crunch for so long I doubt if they now have the will to do anything else.
It may sound corny but at times like this I recall the words of Bruce Willis, who once said, "You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't make him a duck"
Someone above made a reference to comparing our attacking Iraq with Russia's recent military action against Georgia.
Call me un-American, call me unpatriotic, call be a dirty rotten pinko commie bastard if you will, but you cannot imagine the sheer delight I have felt these past few days seeing Bush & Cheney simmering over this situation.
Bush has condemed their actions; Cheney has issued a statement threatening Russia, not with military action on our part but rather how this could damage their relationship with us. Who the hell cares anymore about having any relationship with us, the world's biggest war-mongers.
When I caught a headline this morning that Russia had called a halt to the offense in Georgia, I think I felt a bit disappointed. It was so good seeing Dubya & Darth just stammering over something that they knew they couldn't do a damn thing about.
The above article about the Iraq timetable/horizon or whatever you want to call it is just another load of crap.
Sift through all the fancy words and phrases and you still come down to the dependency of the Iraqi government to stand on its own. We have been allowing them to use us as a crutch for so long I doubt if they now have the will to do anything else.
It may sound corny but at times like this I recall the words of Bruce Willis, who once said, "You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't make him a duck
I have not been on here for over the "30 minute limit" and if I didn't write it, who the hell did?
Bornfreemen...
Comments about Russia...
From what I have seen, I think this is more of a parallel with Kosovo than with Iraq.
Russia did not commence this action, the Georgians did...the media calls the 2 independant provinces "Rebel states" - making it sound like they were in a recent uprising, whereas they went independant over 10 years ago.
This was an attempt by Georgia to re-conquer 2 states...and Russia responded by pushing them back out...really it would have been understandable if Russia had used it as an excuse to attempt to reconquer their own former state of Georgia...but they didn't.
Also, Russia tried for a ceasefire first...but with the condition that NO force be used now or in future. Georgia does not want this...they use the tactic of invade, take ground then ask for ceasefire - thus de-facto claiming the ground they occupied. That is why Russia waited to ceasefire until all Georgian units were expelled from the provinces.
I calculate that four more years of war in the Middle East will cost each American family another $40,000 that they don't have. Problem is, the previous balloon mortgage is due right now. Your banks are crashing now.
Failure to pay off the national balloon mortgage right now will lead to runaway gasoline price increases (so it happened already, I'm kind of a cheap psychic), runaway prices of everything else, a collapsing housing market, collapsing banks and government-sponsored banks, and then a collapsing jobs market.
The five stages of grief are:
1. You lose your job, there's no money to pay the mortgage and you need to pay the hospital. You tell yourself that everything will turn out all right, it always has before.
2. Your furniture is out on the street. You move in with the in-laws. Now you blame Bushie, unless you're a lifelong Republican in which case you blame Ted Kennedy and the teacher unions for everything.
3. Your anger ticks off the in-laws. They're not doing that well themselves. You bargain with them to let you stay until you get back on your feet.
4. They kick you out. You hit rock bottom. You get a pretty good sleeping bag for bad weather.
5. After a month on the street you get it, you big dummy. Everybody else is out there too.
What's most interesting to me about the Russia question is that in essence, it hasn't changed at all even though the so-called communist party of the so-called Soviet Union is long gone. The revolution in Russia started out as a grassroots movement, but became involved in defensive measures in very short time after the west invaded with something like 10 or better armies in 1918.
Now, "socialism" long gone, the behavior of the west demonstrates that the so-called threats to liberty that the "Soviets" represented were never the issue at all. The issue is the self-governance of one sixth of the world that just happens to have access to some of the richest metal, mineral and petroleum deposits in the world. The Russian government, no more than a competing capitalist interest, even now is seen as an aggressor when it seeks to defend what it sees as its territorial integrity. But the hypocrisy of the capitalist moneylenders in the west knows no bounds. You don't have to agree with the Russian perspective to see that if Mexico were pushing for a more direct and confrontational level of self-determination tomorrow, the United States would be moving the troops in like white on rice, especially with oil in the Gulf of Mexico up for grabs by either a nationalizing or socializing militant government. Hell, these people can barely stand Chavez' actions in Venezuela, and he's even further away.
So while none of us can lend support to the Russian actions, I think it's plain to see why things are occurring as they are. The United States, through a few of its proxies in the more mercenary quarters of the Georgian struggle for self determiination, wants to move armies right up onto the Russian doorstep, and the Russians have never been a people to tolerate outside interference in what they view as their affairs.
All of the postmodern experts tell us that the age of world wars is over, and I suppose if you eliminate class heirarchy as a factor, that may be true. But the current world war is one of the richer nations of the world on the poorer ones, and no country on this planet has given more powerful entities a blank check more effectively then the imperial warlords of the United States. Curse Russia all we may, the real leader of the club has its star spangled boots on all our necks.
I would not be surprised to learn that the U.S. had a hand in getting this mess started, either.
Read Pravada English. Be exposed to a viewpoint that is not Zionist.
The reality is few imperial occupations have lasted 50-100 years and with our economy in shambles anyone who beilives we will be in iraq 100 years from now is a moron (the british werent in india for 100 years if i remember correctly. With violence levels reduced to practically nothing the future president will have a hard time justifing troops in iraq five years from now. He won't have to though, because it won't happen. Current spending in iraq will crash our economy and that will provide enough of an incentive to leave.