On a Planet 4C Hotter, All We Can Prepare for Is Extinction
There's no 'adaptation' to such steep warming. We must stop pandering to special interests, and try a new, post-Kyoto strategy
We need to get prepared for four degrees of global warming, Bob Watson told the Guardian last week. At first sight this looks like wise counsel from the climate science adviser to Defra. But the idea that we could adapt to a 4C rise is absurd and dangerous. Global warming on this scale would be a catastrophe that would mean, in the immortal words that Chief Seattle probably never spoke, "the end of living and the beginning of survival" for humankind. Or perhaps the beginning of our extinction.
The collapse of the polar ice caps would become inevitable, bringing long-term sea level rises of 70-80 metres. All the world's coastal plains would be lost, complete with ports, cities, transport and industrial infrastructure, and much of the world's most productive farmland. The world's geography would be transformed much as it was at the end of the last ice age, when sea levels rose by about 120 metres to create the Channel, the North Sea and Cardigan Bay out of dry land. Weather would become extreme and unpredictable, with more frequent and severe droughts, floods and hurricanes. The Earth's carrying capacity would be hugely reduced. Billions would undoubtedly die.
Watson's call was supported by the government's former chief scientific adviser, Sir David King, who warned that "if we get to a four-degree rise it is quite possible that we would begin to see a runaway increase". This is a remarkable understatement. The climate system is already experiencing significant feedbacks, notably the summer melting of the Arctic sea ice. The more the ice melts, the more sunshine is absorbed by the sea, and the more the Arctic warms. And as the Arctic warms, the release of billions of tonnes of methane - a greenhouse gas 70 times stronger than carbon dioxide over 20 years - captured under melting permafrost is already under way.
To see how far this process could go, look 55.5m years to the Palaeocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, when a global temperature increase of 6C coincided with the release of about 5,000 gigatonnes of carbon into the atmosphere, both as CO2 and as methane from bogs and seabed sediments. Lush subtropical forests grew in polar regions, and sea levels rose to 100m higher than today. It appears that an initial warming pulse triggered other warming processes. Many scientists warn that this historical event may be analogous to the present: the warming caused by human emissions could propel us towards a similar hothouse Earth.
But what are we to do? All our policies to date to tackle global warming have been miserable failures. The Kyoto protocol has created a vast carbon market but done little to reduce emissions. The main effect of the EU's emissions trading scheme has been to transfer about €30bn or more from consumers to Europe's biggest polluters, the power companies. The EU and US foray into biofuels has, at huge cost, increased greenhouse gas emissions and created a world food crisis, causing starvation in many poor countries.
So are all our efforts doomed to failure? Yes, so long as our governments remain craven to special interests, whether carbon traders or fossil fuel companies. The carbon market is a valuable tool, but must be subordinate to climatic imperatives. The truth is that to prevent runaway greenhouse warming, we will have to leave most of the world's fossil fuels in the ground, especially carbon-heavy coal, oil shales and tar sands. The fossil fuel and power companies must be faced down.
Global problems need global solutions, and we also need an effective replacement for the failed Kyoto protocol. The entire Kyoto system of national allocations is obsolete because of the huge volumes of energy embodied in products traded across national boundaries. It also presents a major obstacle to any new agreement - as demonstrated by the 2008 G8 meeting in Japan that degenerated into a squabble over national emission rights.
The answer? Scrap national allocations and place a single global cap on greenhouse gas emissions, applied "upstream" - for instance, at the oil refinery, coal-washing station and cement factory. Sell permits up to that cap in a global auction, and use the proceeds to finance solutions to climate change - accelerating the use of renewable energy, raising energy efficiency, protecting forests, promoting climate-friendly farming, and researching geoengineering technologies. And commit hundreds of billions of dollars per year to finance adaptation to climate change, especially in poor countries.
Such a package of measures would allow us to achieve zero net greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, and long-term stabilisation at 350 parts per million of CO2 equivalent. This avoids the economic pain that a cap-and-trade system alone would cause, and targets assistance at the poor, who are least to blame and most need help. The permit auction would raise about $1 trillion per year, enough to finance a spread of solutions. At a quarter of the world's annual oil spending, it is a price well worth paying.
Oliver Tickell's book Kyoto2 has just been published kyoto2.org
© Guardian News and Media Limited 2008
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70 Comments so far
Show AllHere is a multiple choice test for you ~SIGGY~ and your Global Warming sidekicks.
A.___ ~SIG 11s~ COMMENT ARE ALWAYS FALSE
B.___ FEW CARE WHAT ~SIG 11~ POSTS HERE.
C.___ ~SIGGY 11~ CANNOT DETECT THE OBVIOUS.
D.___ ALL OF THE ABOVE
The correct answer is, ___(D). ___
Hi Kem,
Glad to hear you planted a few trees. I am not sorry that there is more ice in the Arctic this year than last. I am sorry that even with emperical evidence you refuse to believe that.
I look at the gw issue with both eyes open. You are worried about gloom and doom, I am not. There are certainly drivers to global warming, but never forget the main driver is the sun. When it takes a snooze we are headed for some deep dodo. And it looks like its eyes are pretty heavy right now.
I am worried about the declining ph of the oceans tho. AT least from a present time perspective. I have read many diff theories as to what will happen to them. LIfe in the oceans is an important part of life on earth as a lot of people rely on them for food. OF course, if the ph reduces the amount of food, that will in effect reduce the amount of people and put less pressure on our resources.
You need to examine the strongest drivers of GW. It is not co2 by rather methane. The earth in the deep oceans produces a lottttttt of methane via natural causes. But another huge contributor are wild animals and livestock. That is much more of a worry with methane than co2 is a worry.
Hope you are having a good day. Fall is coming.....:(
You are so wrong about me being hung up on one book ~SIGGY 11~. You're not only a denier, you're an "assumer". As to your IQ? It don't matter if it's (299), you're totally wrong with your personal opinons about Global Warming and previouly posting, or supporting links written by a 19 year old political science students concerning the issue.
There have been at least 50 articles posted here at C/D about the Arctic thawing this year alone. You maintain that everyone of them is wrong. Is that a fact? I say that you're denying what a whole lot of people who are far far better informed than you are about the issue and I trust them and I don't trust you on the subject and you are perhaps causing confusion in some peoplles minds who are alos not well informed on the issue.
In addition ~SIGGY 11~ it has only been about 200 or so years since humanity has been burnng fossil fuels like we are doing now. You keep babbling off but haven't yet explained why the author of this article is incorrect. Address what ~Brian~ posted Aug 14, at 1pm and explain why he's wrong. Plant 10,000 trees and that isn't going to stop the Arctic from thawing and the methane from burping out. Funny , we plante dfur trees today, ___ two cherry and two dates. It was fun.
Kem:
The next election will certainly contribute to global temp increase as the hot air from both the main candidates continues to be spewn.
WEll Kem,
My IQ is a bit higher than 11.
Economy, I agree with you that the largest problem as people that we have is population growth.
But, the thrust of my posts was that the Arctic is not melting in any different fashion than it has for years and years. And our global temps are cooling rather than warming.
Ken is hung up on one book, and that is ok. Too me the biggest threat is global cooling, which is happening. That will cause the population to drop like a rock in the ocean. The 2nd biggest proglem is the PH of the oceans. I am concerned with the fall of the numbers. The effect that will have on ocean life will be astronomical if the fall continues.
I like the idea of revengegirl. Plant some more trees. Curious tho, did you know that the US has more trees now than it did 100 years ago? And wayyyyyyyyyyy more trees than it did 200 years ago. That is a good thing, as they break the wind and provide fauwna for the wild life. Conserve the soil etc.
I think the people on this thread need a "Time Out"
Why don't we all go outside and plant some trees.
Sigurdur11: I hope you are being humorous. The major difference between 9000BC and 1850AD climates is there were under one billion people during all that time - as far as we can guess.
Between 1800AD-1900AD we grew to 2 billion people. From 1900-2000, we grew to over 6 billion people and we will reach 10 billion within 50 years - or less.
Our population is growing exponentially, we are using up all our natural resources from petroleum to water and turning them in pollution. And it is all happening faster than predicted.
Then if you can manage that simple request ~SIGGY (11)~ Perhaps you would read the title of this article, then read the article slowly and carefully and tell us ALL where you in YOUR educated wisdom, find any disagreement with what is written there and tell us ALL why you disagree. Then tell us where you find Brian's post on 14 Aug, at 1pm, to be incorrect. Thank you ~SIG Eleven~. BTW, I fear it's the IQ, ___ not the age.
~~22005 thru 08 AD.~~
The arctic is RAPIDLY thawing and pretty soon the methane gas which has been safely locked up in the perma-frost there for about 600,000 years is going to all blossom out and enter our atmosphpere. Global warming will then run out of control and sea levels will rise as much as 200 feet within a very few years.
Any ten year old child with an average IQ can comprehend that FACT, but you ___~SIGGY 11~___ (BTW, is the number 11 your age, or your IQ, or both ?) You ~SIGGY "11"~ continually ignore that very obvious fact and post comments on these type of issue threads which have nothing to do with it. ___ Why do you bother, could you tell us please ?
Thanks for the weather report(s).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/goddard_polar_ice/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/
Headline:
9,000 BC
The earth is warming! How can we stop it? We are relying on the ice to keep our food froze over winter. Now if that ice keeps melting, pretty soon someone will invent a refrigerator, and the value of ice will decline!
1,000 AD:
The earth is warming! We can sail all the way to China and back. Visit the Inuits along the way, but they are not a friendly people. Must be the polar bears that they are eating is having an affect on them.
1500 AD:
The earth is freeeeeezing. Our crops have died, our neighbors are dieing left and right. When will this insantity stop and the earth warm again????????
2008 AD:
The earth is warming. We have to stop this from happening. The refrigerators are running full tilt, the trees are growing to fast, wildlife is flourishing wayyy to well. We can't have that!
(Reality. A bump in the road as we have not warmed in the past 7 years, and in fact cooled. Despite the predictions of 2007 that the ice would be gone in the NW passage in 2008, it has in fact only thawed to 2070 levels and is now advancing again. Global temps have decreased .7C from the 1980-2000 mean.)
Of coures, it does appear the sun has entered a solar min.....so the temp fall is not surprising.
chessgames56 you have not spent much time around cows have you?
I've seen one cow belch out at one time more methane than I can produce in a month.
It comes out of both ends in quantities that has to be seen to be believed.
No other mammal can rival a bovine in methane production.
UR funny miftin
Sorry BRIAN. I already did it without your okay, but I should have quoted you as the source.
My initial thought was, the deniers would then blast you too.
Thanks Kem, feel free to repeat or paraphrase.
That is perhaps the best comment about G/W of the year ~Brian~.
When the last ice age retreated between 17,000 and 11,000 years ago, atmospheric CO2 went from 190 ppm to 280 ppm. That 90 ppm rise in 60 centuries translates into pumping additional CO2 into the atmosphere at a rate of 1.5 ppm per century.
We are now putting additional CO2 into the atmosphere (primarily from burning fossil fuels and deforestation) at the rate of 2 ppm *per year* or more than 100 times as fast as the last natural greenhouse feedback period.
"We are all standing on the deck of an overcrowded Titanic, watching the icebergs grow ever closer. Some know it is already too late to change course, some scream to 'change course', and some believe it doesn't matter since the ship in 'unsinkable', most are just scared."
Hey EconomyJetSetter--
The Unabomber said practically the same thing. Only he blamed everything on the so-called "left" passengers on the ship, who were only arguing over which little progressive issue was most important.
And since someone brought up farting, has anyone ever done a study to determine the effect of human farting on global warming? I be we'd find we have the cows beat hands down on that one. :D
The Darth Cheney Age
WTF WTF WTF.
What is so difficult about instituting a REAL carbon tax???
JESUS
How perverse will it be to look back and say that our contemporary flash-in-the-pan bullshit society was responsible for the demise of civilization and life on the planet?
You'd better stock up on some monstrous tanks of oxygen too ~Hollow Point~ and build an enclosed biosphere and hope it works before you run out of bottled oxygen, because the biosphere we've named Earth is gonna die unless we can and do change course.
My family and I, my friends and neighbors, virtually all the people of the world - nearly 7 billion of us - have contributed to some extent or other to the converging catastrophes that are hitting our planet. Even the poor folks in the mountains of Nepal burn wood and charcoal.
We are all standing on the deck of an overcrowded Titanic, watching the icebergs grow ever closer. Some know it is already too late to change course, some scream to 'change course', and some believe it doesn't matter since the ship in 'unsinkable', most are just scared.
We had a window of opportunity when we all might have 'changed course' in the late '60s. I worked at THE MOTHER EARTH NEWS and heard the warnings and saw the alternatives then. They were exciting opportunities and might have started moving things in the right direction. Forty years later we haven't changed course much and we haven't gotten ready to save the other passengers either.
At this point, whatever our leaders do may mitigate the speed and angle at which Titanic hits the iceberg - it will still hit, and many, many passengers will still be lost. It is time to put on the life vests and round up the blankets - and pray to whichever god who will listen.
I live in a trailer and I fart sometimes. You wanna make something out of it?
Kem Patrick,
More of the same old same old polluting your mind and your air. And more of the same old same old increasing yearly average temperatures and extreme weather events. The premise of capitalism is perpetual growth. Great idea for a free-unregulated-market... if you can fly away to consume another planet in a few decades.
Too bad we can't. Too bad one planet isn't enough.
Could someone, other than ~IKE KAY~ explain to us, what the economy and the coming election has to do with the Arctic thawing?
~MISANTHORPE~ (2:13am) That was hilerous, thanks. BTW, what is Truthdig?
But as usual ~Miss In Thorpe~, you are full of shit. No trailer, we have a small mansion, all green BTW and the Mrs. doesn't use dentures, has 32 of her home grown teeth and I never fart.
How come you didn't post your usual stupidity and tell everyone global warming is a myth? Ahhhh, I know why. As the evidence mounts, you don't want the readers here to know you are one of the dirty rotten, ignorant scum-bag G/W deniers, who is more harmful for all of humanity than Bush is, by helping to make the G/W issue controverdial and supporting the Bush Cartel's propaganda.
You are correct about one thing, ~MISS A THORPE~, here is my favorite link. It's written by one of the people I often quote, becuse he knows the score and warned us all with this three minute read artilce four years ago. Nobody took it seriously.
http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html
He says, "once it starts, there is no turning back." ___ Well, it has started.
OK if I put up a few out buildings up for chickens etc and convert my 30 by 50 foot basement into hydroponics powered by solar and wind I will be OK. Now I need to protect it all
miftin,
Thanks for the tip! So, it is a satirical piece in the form of a ficticious report - like the old "Report From Iron Mountain".
I'll look for a copy.
...
Jruebl,
Poorly done satire! (It was satire wassn't it?)
I have a better idea:
Let's start thinning the human herd by sterilizing the defectives, people with low-IQ's, the poor, etc. Take everyone with an IQ of 120 or higher and give them incentives to childbirth, put them at the top of the society, put an end to this facade called "democracy," enforce strict rules on the environment, and teach people who are of lower intelligence the basic tools of survival called farming and fishing.
Get rid of multiculturalism, promote homogenity, and do everything locally.
Read Pentii Linkola, Plato, and Julius Evola for starters.
Humans are animals. The more we let defective animals breed, the more we have to plunder the environment to create an atmosphere and a place for them to survive.
Let's radically change society so the best of us survive in a pristine ecological environment.
Because the Capitalist creed is: The greatest good is the economic good, the economy of the world has become the Ultimate Tyrant. We nervously serve the Tyrant as the future rushes in with a closed fist.
Jacob,
Good points. This carbon trading by end-users or fossil fuels just an elaborate shell-game of denial. We need to realize RIGHT NOW that the CO2 isn't the pollutant, the FUEL ITSELF IS THE POLLUTANT - once brought to the surface - it WILL get oxydized to CO2 - even if it isn't actually burned in a engine or boiler.
So with this in mind, regulating global warming gases becomes administratively very simple because it comes from only three sources:
1. Oil and gas well-heads
2. Coal tipples
3. Oil Sand/Oil Shale Plants
Administratively simple - yes, dealing with the greedy owners of these resource - not so simple. The only solution I see is a revolution of some sort.
TO: Martin Schonfeld
I was about to stop writing here on this post until I read your submission. Please tell me if you would, how your point of view and efforts here will in any way affect the change in directions necessary, that must occur within the next seven to ten years?
The left leaning group of thinkers here are the aged, as you note, congratulating the Hippie movement of the sixties. You being so self-satisfied in being right. The USA is a country where age and wisdom are passed by for the "cool" tattooed and scarified brains, of the new millennium.
The present choice of candidates and parties in the upcoming US election fronts a cast of characters that appear to represent an array of thinking that reflects the Hollywood billboards of the past from a country that contributes the greatest amount of the greenhouse gasses and contributes in many other ways to global disintegration with its socioeconomic militaristic positions.
The best "green" political mind in combination with Hollywood created a powerpoint presentation-film that was pro-business and cap and trade when produced and simply delayed the necessary global disaster dialogue now taking place by an additional four years. The entire cap and trade policy was flawed from the outset, as I pointed out repeatedly since Rio 92 and after Kyoto, that the idea of trading carbon emissions is equal to the UK Stern Report which blithely talks about five and six degrees of warming and its effect on the economy if we do not act "quickly" to achieve a so called, "soft economic landing".
With this Jurassic thinking in mind and prevalent on the western world's, Americanized, globalized economic landscape, a system of trading that was obsolete to begin with and supported by these bastions of Greed, imperialism, and neo-colonialist thinking, the World Bank and the IMF, there never was a chance to deal with this globalized environmental crisis soon enough.
The window to deal with it diminishes by the day as we watch aghast as the DNC, and the RNC draft their political planks of the platform to be put forward and walked upon by the standard bearers in the next American political farce. These planks, of course dealing politically with the greatest crisis humanity has faced since the dawn of civilization, brought forth as a great boon to civilized thinking!
I watched the self-satisfied smirks of the drafters of these great words and [thoughts, (how much I would enjoyed and thought appropriate), seeing the flood slowly rising in the convention hall as the final approval was being given to final version of the platform that will be floating downstream very soon.
Joseph Stiglitz who writes here, an economist at Columbia University in New York, for those who don't know, writes about the economics of the Left and the Right in terms of the coming election in the USA and sums-up his article, after an analyses of each with: it should not be difficult to decide.
It is as if he is speaking to a group of fellow thinkers who will decide the coming election, instead of some of the jocks who speaking from high and low places are trying to tell us there is a serious problem out there and up there, while watching the athletes at the Summer Olympics in China wheeze from the air pollution. Or the people whose understanding of economics comes largely from stroking their own bank accounts and 401k's. His comments, although economically based, are not environmentally driven, unfortunately, and are at the very basis of the whether we have under two or four degrees of warming in the environment. This decision will effect the end of your children and the future generations who will be subject to the ravages of climate changes. Lets forget about the arguments of the royal rich supported by the network diva-journalist bunch who make there fortunes by selling the consumer driven economy and those greenwashing the burning and selling all of the fossil fuel extracts at the basis of the problem.
Climate change and the next election are inextricably linked. It is not about economics alone but is about an energy policy that relies on fossil fuel and other polluting sources of energy that prop-up the world economy, or a radical departure toward clean energy production and an inclusiveness of all in the global economy, that would require us to quit "Cold Turkey" to renewables and the global depression that will ensue to attain the crash program necessary. I have been writing about this for months and this is the direction of my work and the direction the global economy must take!
The goal: to have as many people as possible who could contribute to change in this direction, support this necessity to do so for human survival, given the closing window of climate change. We do not have 50 years to do it!!! This idea, opposed to the top one percent of the population who want a continuation of the status quo! This idea supported by Ted Turner CNN and the Wolf Blitzer kind of propagandist that wants a continuation of this made in America and the UK, thinking!
NO, NO, NO, a radical re-thinking and re-making of the present global economy away from special interests and the merchants of greed, who have brought this country and the world to this low, is absolutely necessary for human survival. The USA if it is to take the moral lead again as we hear these days, as we must laugh, at these barrel of monkeys espousing this doctrine must show from example!
While the Democrats are the party of the "little left turn," they do not represent the kind of thinking that will be required to change the future direction of climate change. To do that we must radically reshape the present that means a global depression, until everything is re-tooled. There are not many of sufficient courage or have the political will on the world scene today, to do that although Obama is the best of the worst. I doubt whether he will be able to move the global thinking processes to that direction.
So, my ex-hippie thinker while I like what you say, action is the necessary, "as they came in through the (closing climate) bathroom window attracted by a silver spoon"
IKE
Human extinction - proof that evolution works!
Human extinction has been more or less a sure thing since the Neolithic Revolution, where humans discovered they could adapt the environment as opposed to adapting to the environment. The only real question is when it happens, if it is sooner or later.
So what ecological efforts will achieve is simply to buy some time, to attempt to escape the planet and become a spacefaring species. This will require huge leaps in science and technology, but honestly, the only alternative is the inevitable extinction. Let's hope we can keep the planet going long enough.
Kem Patrick wakes up, scratches himself, farts loudly.
"Where's my bean burrito Honey?" Mrs Patrick pops in her dentures.
"On the computer, where you left it." KP shuffles across the the cluttered room of their trailer. "Oh yeah," slurps and burps "still just as good as last night." He squints hard at the screen "Am I still logged onto Common Dreams , Honey?" "Where else, they banned you on Truthdig." KP begins mouse clicking and typing, mumbles, farts again, "Oh hey! Another global warming article, now where's that URL I always post…you know, the one about the methane burps?" Mrs KP shakes a can of room deodorizer hard, and sprays in all directions, "Yah probably still got it in yer buffer memory, just hit Paste." Kem grunts, his face inches from the screen "Thanks Honey." Mrs KP turns on the television "Where the fuck is the remote?" Kem ignores her, typing heavily, mumbling to himself, "No do overs…no second chances…this is the end."
Stay cool, folks. It's only a life and we've got a million more where this one came from. Nothing Exists.
I don't find these things scary at all, but you are correct Chief Seattle never spoke the words "The end of living & the beginning of survial." One thing he did say that I got a chuckle out of was, " He didn't know what it was the white man wanted?"
I'd been trying to figure that same thing out for years & decided it wasn't even worth the time or trouble figuring such things out.
I post at Native Sites where there is a great sorrow in the hearts of the Native people of this land (usa) about the destruction of the earth.
I tell them the truth that it isn't worth the time or trouble even worrying about because this planet is run by the money money money rich people, & they aren't going to stop anytime soon just as now most everyone upon the planet is enslaved by money so there isn't going to be anyone much do anything about anything except as pointed out phoney carbon tax schemes & other schemes...
I tell people at Native Sites they might as well just enjoy life as it is & how much the destruction of the earth plays into the end of the age is still a thing I don't know.
What I do know is if human beings are left to their own devices they will pretty much destroy themselves through either their own modern weapons, or their destruction of the earth.
All Chief Seattle could tell you is that if you build a globalist earth destroying world where most everyone upon the planet is enslaved by money instead of living simply upon the earth without money as the Tribes used to live then this is the result through Cause & Effect.
Lots of people of Native Heritage are prepared or are preparing to live off the land should things take some nasty ugly turn as are many other people of other races.
Many many people of Native heritage in this land follow & study our prophecies as well as the prophecies of other peoples of other lands.
Regardless the "Bills" come in as the planet orbits going nowhere & getting nowhere. The people who own the cash registers want their money for whatever they are selling. The way things are now upon the earth.
Thirty years ago, global climate modeling scientists predicted exactly the kind, order, and magnitude of the extreme weather patterns we are now witnessing today. They said "This is what it will be like in another thirty years" and that's what it's like.
This saving the planet extremism is garbage and the left is going to look like fools. Using clean technologies is just sensible. Why not just argue common sense and honesty. NO ONE knows what the future climate will be and the ability to predict it is impossible. Hell we can't predict next weeks weather.
So just stop it. We need scientific reasoning and that type of reasoning alone. leave chicken little to the fairy tails
Somebody breaks into Al Gore's house with a sledge hammer and starts smashing everything in sight.
Al Gore says "I have a plan where you and the other guys who like to smash furniture can trade entitlements to smash furniture among yourselves, and we can keep the rate of furniture-smashing about where it is."
But the maniac just keeps smashing Al's furniture.
Al Gore says "I can get you a good job repairing furniture, because so many people are smashing furniture that there's an incredible demand for people who can put it back together."
But the maniac just keeps smashing Al's furniture.
At this point, Al Gore would finally call the police, and they would either arrest the maniac or shoot him, if he resisted arrest, and the reason that Al Gore would escalate his response all the way to deadly force is that Al Gore is serious about his furniture, and if he were equally serious about saving the planet, he would realize that the time to blather about trading carbon credits is over, and it's time to start shooting, if that's what it takes.
So, a long time ago, a bunch of atmospheric CO2 and methane created a "Thermal Maximum" that wiped out most of the life on our pretty little planet. All the dead stuff fell to the bottom of the oceans or got buried and eventually created fossil fuels. This results in a habitable ecosystem where we develop. Thinking we are quite clever, we remove the carbon store, put it back into the atmosphere, and recreate the problem. No sweat, now all we need is to have most of the life on earth die, followed by a brief waiting period of 55 million years and we should get right back to where we started.
I'm thinking we probably won't get invited to the second round.
Maybe some global planner will come up with the idea of dying-off people instead of just laying them off. You lose your job--you die. Now.
Susan George wrote a very provocative book called "The Lugano Report" written from the perspective of the top global elite as a detailed plan to drastically reduce human population by various means without anyone catching on to the methods or real perpetrators.
With the exception of ELF and a few brave souls from GreenPeace attacking whalers on the high seas, the rest of what prances around under the banner of environmentalism is just a bunch of wussies.
"I waved my little sign on a street corner, and then we had tea and cookies."
But when Brazilian lumber barons have leveled the Amazon from the Atlantic coast to the Andes, and there's nothing left to breathe, maybe a few people will realize that the rain forest was worth fighting for, with real guns and live ammunition, if that's what it takes, and if it takes a war to save the Amazon, then so be it.
The alternative is what we have now, with a few hundred wussies wringing their delicate little hands on street corners, and thousand of acres of irreplaceable rain forest disappearing every day.
Stilba 4:20 p.m., Kitaj et al,
About the human population... it is actually much closer to 7 billion than 6 billion; over 6.8b and counting.
If anyone would like to look at the "odometer" and watch it ticking ever onwards at a net rate of +3 humans/ sec.... go to http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
According to their calculations, we will reach 7 billion sometime late on the night of April 9, 2010.
Unless of course, there are some huge catastrophic die-offs before then.......
Jacob Freeze is advocating military means to stop oil production. Is this cool or what? Let's have a world war to curb pollution! Sigh, Americans...
They sell nickel bags on Nashville street corners?
Hi Kitajay: " People just wont deal with the overpopulation issue. They have the ego-need to reproduce themselves and feel they have the "right" to do so no matter what.
And so……."
I don't know history very well, but I would suspect that this idea about "my special rights to do whatever the hell I want" is a product of our modern industrial society.
"……I agree with Obonodori and stilba, I seriously doubt humans have the ability to transcend our grotesque immaturity, our egocentric disorientation to existence."
With increasing development, we see our "egocentric disorientation" actually mitigate against reproduction, and we have seen this happen very, very rapidly with both Ireland and Italy being prime examples.
"We need a totally Eco-centric worldview to be implimented NOW or it IS too late."
I absolutely agree with this latter statement. We see people sacrifice endlessly so that their offspring will have a good life. It is really a matter of going forth with all we can do at every level in order to give space for this necessary change in ethic. This vs climate should really be where primary attention is being put. Addressing climate change, or more accurately unsuccessfully attempting to, is an attempt to treat the symptoms while ignoring the disease, and this is why it is failing.
What the late Dana Meadows said is that, When its information flows are changed, any system will behave differently.
www.StudentsForTheEarth.org
pax4all August 11th, 2008 5:02 pm
Welcome to Easter Island.
That sums it up beautifully and should be the title of a book about the history of human stupidity, greed and selfishness that got us where we are. In the last scene, a toddler throws a blazing fit in a toy store because his parents won't get him or her a particular toy, screaming "I want it! I want it!" at the top of its tiny lungs. Then the parents relent. The toddler got his/her way and so the story seemingly ends. Except in the epilogue, which takes place the next day at the same shopping mall, the toddler throws the toy away and pitches another fit and the parents relent again. End of story.
Hate to tell you this Jane, but this article negatively critiques Bio and Carbon trading two linchpins of Obama's environmental agenda along with Coal and Nuclear. But you are right about one thing, we are in for some nasty shit whoever is elected president.
The problem is market-based capitalism. The solution is participatory economics.
Joneden,
People just wont deal with the overpopulation issue. They have the ego-need to reproduce themselves and feel they have the "right" to do so no matter what.
And so.......
......I agree with Obonodori and stilba, I seriously doubt humans have the ability to transcend our grotesque immaturity, our egocentric disorientation to existence.
We need a totally Eco-centric worldview to be implimented NOW or it IS too late.
Welcome to Easter Island.
Stopping global warming goes directly against human nature. There are 6 billion people today and virtually all of them want more than they have. We do not have the capacity to stop ourselves. Even if some plague came along and wiped out 99% of us, it'd still probably be too late. It's happening too fast and is going to hit humanity like a bullet.
And, knowing human nature since we are supposedly human, do you really believe that we have it in us to make the positive changes needed? Highly improbable.
Goodbye 21st Century forms of government, Hello 14th Century feudalism. National governments will disappear in the wake of massive upheaval and mega-mass starvation, to be replaced by local warrior-kings who will rule areas of decreasing sizes until some kind of equilibrium is reached depending on transportation modes and communication modes.
Then, it's just the luck of the draw as to whether one survives under an evil tyrant or a somewhat less-than-evil tyrant.
Oh my, what gawdawful misery lies in wait around the corner.
What we can do now is give future generations a little hope for partial recovery, and even this relatively modest aim would require a radical commitment equally repulsive to liberals, conservatives, and virtually everyone else except a few shock-troops from ELF and anti-whaling pirates from GreenPeace
The first order of business is shutting down as many coal and oil fields as possible, from Pennsylvania and Texas to Nigeria and Saudi Arabia, and denying any remaining fields access to global markets. Russia would defend its oil fields with nuclear weapons, but its pipelines to Europe and China are still vulnerable. Shutting down coal and oil production involves significant military action, and significant risk of military retaliation, but there is no risk-free strategy that offers any possibility of diminishing the worst consequences of an already inevitable ecological collapse. If remaining coal and oil reserves find their way into the atmosphere, however slowly, all conceivable counter-measures will be overwhelmed.
The second order of business is preventing further destruction of the rain-forest in Brazil and elsewhere, and none of the relevant countries will act without compulsion. The alternative is allowing lumber barons and peasant scavengers to finish cutting the lungs out of the planet.
The third step is replanting forests on a global scale, and transplanting most of the bourgeoisie from their unsustainable suburbs to mobile work-camps on the frontiers of desertification.
As radical and even absurd as my suggestions may appear to so-called "concerned citizens" of all political persuasions, not even the most radical program offers any prospect of "solutions" for us or our children, and all we can really hope for is a slightly better chance of recovery in the distant future.
We must stop palliating the symptoms of our predicament and address its root causes:
over population
over consumption of renewables and non renewables
lack of equity.
www.StudentsForTheEarth.org
Something that underlies all of the problems is Greed.
The Greed the causes people to live the lifestyle of two cars, a house that consumes more gas than 20 families use in Developing nations, and so on.
Who has the power? The same people I just mentioned.
Who are the king makers? The same people I just mentioned.
The MSM has glorified this style of living. Almost every movie you see that does not have cost of living at the core of the story line, shows extravagant houses and heavely settings. The Talking head on TV are all making six figures multiple time over, including the moroning weatherman.
Start with yourself. Pare it down. Demand it from your leaders. Al Gore can not be living on his footprint if he wants the world to change.
And that's why America needs to break away from the two party DUOPOLY !!
RALPH NADER FOR PRESIDENT !!!
VOTENADER.ORG
As JaneM writes, "this is scary shit"! It gets worse, but I'll leave that for others. JaneM also points toward the nub of the problem; our country, the "belly the beast", is dominated by people making vast profits from oil and coal, who see their control of the world's oil as essential to their power. But while it is true that removing Bush and his chosen successor is essential, it is sadly also true that Obama has a long and cosy relationship with the coal barons, and will at best bring a small opening for struggle.
The most serious omission from the "standard model" of global catastrophe is the fact that the billions of people who share the planet and its fate are sentient beings, capable of imagining the past and visualizing alternative futures, and increasingly capable of reading and understanding what the scientists are saying. Tickell only focuses on what nations should do, and the discouraging fact that they aren't showing signs of doing it. We need instead to look at how the people can gain control of the process.
As we try to picture what can happen, we must consider what the people in their billions might do as the environment deteriorates, not just as victims, "ignorant armies [that] clash by night", but increasingly as conscious actors, able to see their own individual crises as part of a global picture, able analyze the situation and picture the consequences of their actions. And able to see the possibility that by acting together they might gain control and change the outcome.
Then we need to make a mental shift, and include ourselves among them. The question then becomes "what will *we* do"? For it is a fantasy to imagine that we, most of the readers of this article, are among the masters of the Empire, those who get to choose its direction, and the evidence thus far is that those masters are unable or unwilling to heed either us or the scientists.
We are like passengers on a ship that is headed toward the rocks. Our fellow passengers are the welders and toilet-cleaners of Dubai, the rice-farmers and garment-workers of Bangladesh, the machine builders and prostitutes of Sao Paulo. And the WalMart clerks and school teachers of Tulsa, the migrant chicken-packers and the children selling nickel bags on the street corners of Nashville, the guards and the prisoners of San Quentin. Like Walter Mitty, we fantasize, as do they all, about what we would do if we were captain, and we despair when we remember that we are not and see that he won't listen.
So what will the billions do when they – we - fully comprehend our situation? When we understand that we're all in the same boat, and that only by acting together to get control of the ship can we generate a future for ourselves and for our children and our great-grandchildren? The answer is not written. Science can go only so far in forecasting what will happen, because so much of the current situation is unprecedented. For example, we can learn from the ecological and social collapse of earlier societies such as the Maya, and try to use those as models for what could happen, but part of what makes our situation unique is that our toilet-cleaner in Dubai is very possibly listening in and pondering the same question! Moreover, much of our science of what people do and why is "tobacco science", paid for by those who want to keep control and preserve the status quo, those who want to disempower us.
Tickell's article fills the reader with dread, paralysis, because what hope it offers is so far beyond our personal control, much as horror stories about the health effects of tobacco don't induce smokers to quit. Our story must rather include the possibility and ways that forklift operators in Caracas, coffee-pickers in Kenya and file-clerks in Chicago can fully comprehend the situation and act together to change outcomes. Such a science will empower us to think globally and to reject temptations and inducements to despair or to blame each other. And to reject the temptation to sit this election out and wait for a new and better messiah.
Two things, I think, matter most, one negative, one positive.
On the down side, the US is on bipartisan record for having effectively undermined international efforts at mitigating climate change. Information on human-made global warming is 70 years old (Callendar, 1938). The discovery of climate change is 50 years old (Revelle and Suess, 1957). Proof of anthropogenic CO2 as cause of warming is 30 years old (Hansen, 1981). The Earth Summit convened in 1992. The Kyoto Protocol dates from 1998. The Bali Summit met last year. We can change the future, but not the past. We can't hide the history either: the four American percent of the world population have contributed a third of the world's greenhouse gases, drive a third of the world's cars, and effectively sabotaged effective and binding global emission caps. And everyone knows it.
What is worse is that the US president has never been made subject to impeachment in his eight years in office. To any observer outside the US, US citizens appear to endorse the US president. For if they didn't, they'd have kicked the Climate-Changer-in-Chief out of the oval office. All this is on record. It has become historic. And I fear the judgment history will render on America.
Yet another thing matters, too, I think, and this is all good: while Amerigenic climate change is potentially catastrophic, it also forces us to evolve, as a species, as a civilization, as spirits and as intelligences. If humanity doesn't wish to earn a Darwin Award, it's got to shape up. For the first time in my life, this puts the marvelous deep-ecological dream of a postconsumerist, postcarbon, and postcapitalist future within reach. Finally, this dream is not the luxury of happy Hippies anymore -- its realization has become the precondition to future prosperity if not survival.
Hippies win. And as a philosopher, this makes me happy.
Of course, remember it was the Dems who first sabotaged Kyoto.
At that time, the world's scientists were calling for about a 20% cut from 1990 emissions. The Europeans were largely willing to agree on something like around a 10-12% cut from 1990.
The VP Gore showed up, negotiated everyone down to a 5% cut. Then they added so many 'carbon trading' loopholes to make it meaningless.
Which just means, don't think this problem gets magically solved when Bush leaves office in a few months. After all, most of this article is a British debate, and their Labor Party is the same sort of psuedo-right-wing equivalent of America's Democrats, and they can't do anything either.
This is scary shit. As long as Bush is in office, there's no chance we can do anything meaningful, at least in this country.
Miftin wrote: "Hey EconomyJetSetter–
The Unabomber said practically the same thing."
I am sure millions have said the same thing - the sane and those on the other side of river "Sanity". You can share their frustration on either side - just not their tactics. Same for the Weather Underground of the 60s/70s over Vietnam. Bombing isn't the answer for sure - bombing anybody, anywhere, anytime. Not that I am sure what the answer IS though - it just doesn't involve killing more people.
Again, I would highly recommend Susan George's book: "The Lugano Report: On Preserving Capitalism in the Twenty-First Century" Eleven years old and still right on the mark.
jruebl;
You forgot to sign off with a proper sig heil! Isn't eugenics wonderful? So many victims to abuse-perpetual sadistic satisfaction.