The "timeline" translates as, "Get the hell out!"

Demands?! Who the fuck does Iraq think it is, anyway? A sovereign nation where democracy is beginning to take hold? Perhaps those Iraqis never got the message: democracy means precisely what Uncle Sam says it means and no more. Ain't democracy wonderful?

SnowWolf August 10th, 2008 8:05 pm writes "Israel with Nukes doesn't frighten me…Syria and Iran with Nukes does.."
-of course Israel is the US cop on the beat as Chomsky likes to say

Still, U.S. commanders say they worry that a hasty withdrawal could allow violence to resume.
-as if the US could give a crap about violence if oil wasn't involved

What they are worried about is any interruption in the rape and plunder of Iraq's oil!

snowwolf,
Iran is a signatary of the Non Proliferation Treaty, which entitles them to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. The IAEA and even a National Estimate Intelligence from the USA have declared that they are not building any nukes.
On the other hand, Israel imprisoned the whistle blower who talked about their nuclear war heads, they are not signataries of the Non Proliferation Treaty.
So are you dumb or misinformed?

How about a time horizon of "whenever the hell we say the troops go and not a day longer?"

This has worked for 5 years but apparently isn't working, or fooling, anyone any longer. I believe the truth will come out (it already has for many of us) that will show how corrupt and inept bush has been on Iraq. But just because the truth is out doesn't necessarily mean everyone believes it.

Why don't they ask McCain? He's obviously the next president.

To the comment that this simply a bit of electioneering on the behalf of "friendly parties" in the United States.

As in look, we will be bringing our troops home soon we are working at it.

I notice something else that counters the claims by some that the price of oil all about supply and demand.

It has plummeted in the leadup to the elections. There is no possible way this all due to drop in demand as it has plummetted by well over 20 percent.

So is this good new all about the elections?

I remain skeptical of all this stuff. The media tends to deliver news that those in charge want us to read.

pk

as Nir Rosen has said, Iraq is going to be like Somalia for who knows how long-- at least the Arab dominated parts. It is a country where there is no government-- in the meaningful sense of the word-- but only militias. Baghdad is a city of sectarian ghettos, with Sunni neighborhoods, the ones that survived, walled off from Shiite neighborhoods. Sunni militias, called Sons of Iraq and other names, are not going to be incorporated into Iraq's "security forces"-- which are Shiite militias-- leaving 80,000 well-armed men hostile to the US, the Iraqi "government," and Shiites in general. Kirkuk and other parts of northern Iraq that are still ethnically mixed are growing more violent, as the Tal Afar bombing shows.
There appears a glimmer of hope, though, in Sadr's pledge to disarm his Mahdi army if the US begins to withdraw according to a timeline. This could have a substantial effect, givin how responsible it has been for sectarian violence. But are we to believe that the US is going to just give up on its bipartisan project of controlling Iraq's oil? There appears to be a loophole, according to reports based on leaks of the ongoing negotiations, that the US could stay in Iraq longer if it sees that it is necessary. But maybe the US has finally realized that its mission in Iraq will never be realized, that where oil in Iraq is most abundant, in the south, is where Sadr has most support. Western oil companies are never going to be able to operate in Iraq, not unless the population is completely destroyed. Its hard to say what the pea brains in Washington are going to do. They have destroyed Iraq the nation-state. There will be little influence by ordinary Americans over the decisions being made about Iraq, the population just doesn't seem to care when Americans aren't fighting and being killed by the resistance in large numbers. Perhaps the talk of a withdrawal timeline is intended to help McCain get elected, orchestrated by the neocons so that Obama's campaign gets the air, undeserved as it is, taken out of it when it is seen that he basically is in line with the Bush administration. A McCain administration could send the Middle East to hell in a handbasket with a campaign to take out Iran's nuclear program. The future is bleak, to say the least.

overkill: "When will our trained killers start protecting Americans from their government?"

Good question - print tee shirts.

shakker: "I am very sorry to say we deserve what we get in the politicians we have collectively supported including the third party people who protest vote every 4 years but build no structure that can actually win."

Most progressives are voting their principles, not registering a protest. It's the principles, not the structure. As you can see, parties with structure but without principles crash and burn.

Get the facts straight about the illegal Israeli raid on the alleged Syrian nuclear reactor:

-----------------------------------
In his first public comment on Israel's mysterious bombing run on what some analysts suggested was a nascent Syrian nuclear reactor, Mohamed ElBaradei, the chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, called on the Israelis and other countries to share information with IAEA.

"That to me is very distressful because we have a system," he told CNN in an interview. "If countries have information that the country is working on a nuclear-related program, they should come to us."
--------------------

While expressing concern over the prospect that Syria may have decided to launch a nuclear program in secret, some weapons experts question why neither Israel nor the United States made any effort before the secret attack -- or in the six weeks since -- to offer evidence to the International Atomic Energy Agency, a move that would trigger an inspection of Syria by the nuclear watchdog.

Syria is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has cooperated with IAEA inspections of the small, 27-kilowatt research facility it has run for decades, IAEA sources said.

Foreign sources familiar with the attack say Israel wanted to send a strong message to Iran about the price of developing a secret nuclear program. Israel is increasingly alarmed about Iran's intentions and frustrated that the international community has not persuaded Tehran to suspend its uranium enrichment program.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR2007101802549.html
---------------------

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — Syria said Saturday it would bar U.N. nuclear investigators from revisiting a site bombed by Israeli jets on suspicion it was a secretly built atomic reactor.

The move dealt a blow to International Atomic Energy Agency efforts to follow up on intelligence indicating Syria was hiding a nuclear program that could be used to make weapons.

Syria denies it has hidden nuclear facilities.

Justifying its decision, a Foreign Ministry official told reporters Syria's agreement with the U.N. nuclear watchdog — which already inspected the site in June — allowed only one visit.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-09-syria-nuclear_N.htm?csp=34

-------------------------

So:
1) The U.S. and Israel never complained to the IAEA *before* the strike.
2) After the strike, did not ask the IAEA to look at the site.
3) Months later, complained that Syria had cleaned up the destroyed site (I guess they should just leave the mess in the desert).
4) Syria *did* allow the IAEA to inspect the site when asked. The NPT treaty allows only *one* such inspection; Syria is just following the Treaty, unlike Israel.
5) After watching what happened when UN agencies were allowed to poke around in Iraq and Iran based on 'suspicions', Syria is wise to limit the IAEA to its one allowed inspection of the destroyed site.
---------------------------------
Israel with fighter jets, submarines, missiles, nuclear weapons and 'abused child syndrome' frightens me.

All this is reminiscent of how Nixon managed to finesse withdrawal from Vietnam as a partisan domestic issue for over six years, claiming that the sensitive details of the secret deal were all being hammered out behind closed doors in Paris between Henry K and the North Vietnamese, negotiations always at a delicate juncture, that might well be sabotaged if discussed publicly.

The logic of the whole ploy is that there's no need to protest against the invasion or occupation of Iraq if it's already agreed that the war's about to end. So you voters, just be patient. And certainly don't do anything stupid like emboldening the enemy by changing American leadership abruptly, since peace with honor is at hand. Be patient. Trust us.

This bullshit worked like a charm for Tricky Dick against McGovern in '72. I mean, who benefits most by announcing sometime this fall there's now an agreed upon time deadline for the end of the US military presence?

The party of Bush, and the party of Maliki benefit, that's who.

Let's watch both regimes declare victory at this politically convenient moment, so that nobody can accuse anybody of being a warmonger, or being a collaborator, in the upcoming US and Iraqi elections.

Bill from Saginaw

The latest Bush statement says they will pull out when the Time sync continuum is cognisant to the square of the hypotenuse.

Irael with Nukes doesn't frighten me...Syria and Iran with Nukes does

Don't wait for a timeline. Just kick the twits out right now.

The Iraqis want a timeline that ends before we go totally belly up financialy. As long as we're handing out billions of dollars to some powerful Iraqis, which they can convert to Euros or Swiss notes, or gold bullion, they'll want us to stay. I think they know we are about busted and don't want our well armed troops and the Blackwater gangs still there who aren't getting their monthly paychecks.

The puppet telling the puppetmaster what to do? Don't think so! For all the things that are perceived to have gone wrong with this occupation, for Cheney and the shareholders, everything has gone perfectly to plan and even easier. They want us to scrutinize this and that and think they're incompetent so we won't call it what it is, 21st century old world COLONIALISM! And demand that it Stop! The biggest weapon pointed at the Iraqis is their own quantum, fanatical religious division. The most honest thing Rumsfeld ever said was, "you go to war with the army you've got". Time has proven that's been more than enough. Remember when Cheney was asked about the 4'000th U.S. death in Iraq, his answer, "So"! That sums up what they think of the troops. This is not or ever has been a war, simply a large scale policing action to save time to rehash oil deals and pull Halliburton way out of the hole, and it's far from over. If Obama becomes president, he'll be the biggest puppet of all

remember more Iraqi people have been killed by Americans than under Saddams rule. I guess up in Canada your allowed to hear every week some Iraqi man or women holding a dead child saying we were better off under Saddam than America.
The world knows they are there for one reason only OIL.
As for Syria and Israel. I feel Syria is right and tell the UN to F off. Israel comes clean then the rest of the world. I am getting tired of Israel playing the poor us card when it is a Nuke super power

Re. the cock-ass bs about Syria not allowing the IAEA to inspect the site that Israel bombed, there is NO REASON justifying the IAEA performing such an inspection.

After all, IT IS ISRAEL that committed a war crime, a criminal attack, aggression, which Israel had absolutely NO right at all to commit. Israel commited an act of war of aggression, but Syria didn't militarily strike back.

Also, Israel has what's believed by many respectable analysis and others who simply [know], Israel has 200 to 400 nukes, has beeng totally criminal, despotic, ..., with regards to Mordechai Vanunu, has always refused to allow IAEA inspections of these criminal nuclear weapons threatening the whole Middle East and more by just possessing these nukes; plus Israel is extremely guilty of endless crimes of Hell's sort of making, against Palestinians and the Lebanese, but also others, certainly Iraq, Syria, Egypt; yet, also African countries where Israeli corporations and, by complicity, the Israeli govt acting along with the U.S. or West with their crimes of genocidal scale for the sake of ... NATURAL RESOURCES.

That Syria is guilty of some crimes, they far are less than what Israel has for real record, ongoing record.

snowwolf - the nuclear facility you speak of didn't have a fence around it or any guards. odd. Everyone knows N. Korea has a warehouse full of nuclear reactors for "just in time" delivery. Set up time 3 weeks max. It takes us 10 to 15 years to build one.

SnowWolf says,

"but isn't it nice to have a brand new Democracy right between Syria and Iran?

Speaking of Syria…I notice they won't allow the IAEA in to visit that site the Israelis bombed…I wonder why?"

An artificial, propped up "Democracy." I wonder what will happen when we leave. Given the Shia majority in Iraq, many speculate that we have created a ready ally for Iran. Of course no need to mention all the dead Iraqis, destroyed country and culture, chaos, and great pools of ill will and danger across the ME caused by BushCo's arrogant and unwise "policy" of preemption and democracy from the barrel of a gun.

Also,...
Maybe Syria would allow the IAEA in if Israel would do the same. It has an undeclared illegal arsenal. No small hypocrisy there.

Imagine living in a country where public opinion trumps special interests and personal interests. If Iraq follows through with their demands they'll have a more democratic democracy than we have in the west.

"BAGHDAD (AP) - The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq"

Coalition of the willing? Sounds more like Coalition of the can't-get-a-ride-home!

To me it is a crime that we are still there. We have ruined the lives of millions of Iraqi and have been responsible for way more deaths that Saddam. I want to see constant news coverage of American troops being air lifted out, all day every day. Do we have to wait to see people hanging off helicopters trying to escape? We have done an terrible thing in Iraq and hace consistently lied about our activity and involvement over the years. A number of people have become very wealthy as a result of Bush's war.If we started the impeachment process, at least they would have to testify under oath, before congress and the world. That would be a start. Somehow, these incompetent, self-centered egotists need to be held accountable for their actions.

the hell with Iraq. Let's help Georgia fight the Ruskies. Then Bush can be a real "War President." Instead of fighting countries that can't fight back. It takes the military to teach american "newbies" how to fight in 16 weeks. And Iraqies five years. Something doesn't sit right with me. Or is so Bush, Cheney and his jewish friends to rake in billions of billions of US taxpayers' money. Let's fight a real army that can really fight and let's see how our great generals will react to that. They'll run, like they did in Nam. I want the "War President" to fight a country that can fight back. Let Iraq do their own fighting. It's their country, or is it ours. It might as well be, we put the people in power and now they want ust ot leave. So let's leave. There is always another country that we can annihilate, for instance, Cuba. They have somewhat a military that are brave generals can beat up on and steal american taxpayers hard earned money. They better hurry though, cause soon they're won't be many taxpaying workers to give to Bush, cheney and all their friends. They get the gold, we get the shaft. Let's kill them all and let God sort it out.

revoltnow - you have a a good nose.

This reeks of stage management because it is just that.

Iraqi government marionettes would never be allowed to take strong positions contratry to their string puller's intentions unless the script called for it.

To give McCain election ammo, and ease republicrat losses in congress, and balm edgy US voters, the Bush Kommando administration needs to somehow create the illusion of successfully closing-out the intractible mess it created -- without seeming to leave 'prematurely' and thus inconsistently, of its own accord.

The Malaki gov is clearly being told by Bush to go on stage and demand a US withdrawal timetable. And the US must now pretend to be somewhat resisting this demand out of concern for 'doing it right.' But after a little more calculated handwringing - and well before November - Bush will 'concede' that, '...after all, Iraq is 90% ready to govern itself -- and who are we to stand in its way?' .. or some such claptrap.

Of course at this point, even such shoddy theatre would be acceptable if, after the mutual security pact was signed, the US actually left Iraq/Afghanistan and the tragi-comedy ended.

Unfortunately, as we all know: no matter who gets elected in November, the mutual security agreement will only be the end of a protracted opening Act.
Both McCain and Obama have promised many more Acts to come.

If we leave Iraq how will Cheney's Halliburton keep earning money and the thugs from Blackwater stay employed?
Will anybody ever find out where a few $billions have disappeared?
For centuries hatred between ethnic groups has existed with murders and mutilations over absurd and sometimes tiny differences tat never end.
Let us get our people out and let the Iraquis solve their problems but while permitted the innocents to leave and finding a safe haven for them. Let the remainder manage to get the oil out, which was really the basis of this stupid war started by a stupid man and the evil and ignorant people surrounding him.

Speaking of troop withdrawal...

"BAGHDAD (AP) - The U.S. military began flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq"

...thereby providing direct military support for Georga against Russia. I didn't know that George and his Pentagram were strong enough to take on the Russian military. Is Ukraine next?

When will our trained killers start protecting Americans from their government?

Unless the CONTRACTORS and the soldiers ALL actually leave, this is all political press releases. Talking about this illegal occupation, terrorists, islamo-fascists and various dispositions of occupiers is to keep the minds of those with moral foundation confused or drowned out in their effort to stop the war crimes and impeach Bu$h the inferior and Shotgun Dick.

The best strategy for Obama to use if he chooses to stop the war crimes and punish the big evil doers is to wait until he actually becomes President then nail them all at once and fast. Unfortunately, that is not his plan and his current actions come off as wimpy.

Obama wants to be President not another Kucinich. The actions needed to become President in the last 40 years at least, preclude anyone from being on the best terms with morality. The people of this country are hypocritical. Almost all the people that display outrage at Bill's BJ or Edwards little ring a ding would and do screw around at the drop of a hat. Half the marriages would not be ending in divorce in this country if sex was always man on top (of a woman) get it over quick like the snooty bastards pretend.

I am very sorry to say we deserve what we get in the politicians we have collectively supported including the third party people who protest vote every 4 years but build no structure that can actually win.

Iraq is playing Bu$h the inferior vs McCain vs Obama for an internal audience to keep the current figureheads alive. Absolutely nothing more.

Knew we wouldn't stay forever...

but isn't it nice to have a brand new Democracy right between Syria and Iran?

Speaking of Syria...I notice they won't allow the IAEA in to visit that site the Israelis bombed...I wonder why?

What? Our puppet government in Iraq is turning against us, who do they think they are? Let's assassinate one by one.

Now that we know for sure there are billions of dollars in oil and we Democrats are about to take over in 2009, both congress and the White House, we need to make sure anyone opposing us is killed.

Somehow this all doesn't pass the smell test. Seems awfully convenient for the Iraqi government to start demanding a withdrawal just in time for US elections. "Mission Accomplished" all over again.

If we stay after they've asked us to leave. then there is no way we can continue to call ourselves "the liberators." We are the invaders - which of course is what we've always been.

'Still, U.S. commanders say they worry that a hasty withdrawal could allow violence to resume.'

Whenever we get out of Iraq, hastily or otherwise, there's going to be violence. We got rid of Saddam for them, and now we should respect their wishes and get the hell out of their destroyed country so they can rebuild.

>>Still, U.S. commanders say they worry that a hasty withdrawal could allow violence to resume.

This is what Iraq has to worry about. Remember those British Soldiers arrested by Iraqi Police several years back?

They were dressed as Arabs and had a carload of explosive devices.

PK

Bush, McCain and Obama have united on the same policy for the continued occupation of Iraq. The difference between them is continually shrinking.

A true peace candidate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxbDwXeOeA4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UzcqK2Ii70