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It's the Torture, Stupid. Restoring Human Rights Must Be Next Prez's Top Priority
Both major presidential candidates have promised to roll back the Bush Administration's torture archipelago. Both say they'll close Guantánamo, abolish legalized torture, and respect the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war. Obama also pledges to eliminate "extraordinary rendition," in which the CIA kidnaps people and flies them to other countries to be tortured, and says he will investigate Bush Administration officials for possible prosecution for war crimes.
If followed by other meaningful changes in behavior--withdrawing from Afghanistan and Iraq and foreswearing preemptive warfare--restoring the rule of law and respecting the rights of "enemy combatants" can start America's long, slow climb back to moral parity in the community of nations. But there are worrisome signs that Barack Obama and John McCain's commitment to moral renewal is less than rock-solid.
McCain, who claimed to have been tortured as a POW in North Vietnam, says a lot of the right things. "We do not torture people," he said in a 2007 Republican debate. "It's not about the terrorists; it's about us. It's about what kind of country we are." He used his Vietnam experience against fellow Republicans, bullying Congress into passing a law banning torture against detainees held by the military.
Bush signed McCain's bill in late 2005, saying it "is to make it clear to the world that this government does not torture and that we adhere to the international convention of torture, whether it be here at home or abroad."
Days later, however, Bush issued a secret "signing statement" declaring that he would ignore the Detainee Treatment Act. NYU law professor David Golove, an expert on executive power, said: "The signing statement is saying 'I will only comply with this law when I want to, and if something arises in the war on terrorism where I think it's important to torture or engage in cruel, inhuman, and degrading conduct, I have the authority to do so and nothing in this law is going to stop me."
McCain, who says as president he would veto a bill rather than issue a signing statement negating its contents, was no doubt angry about Bush's perfidy. But, fearful of alienating Bush and the GOP leadership as he geared up for his '08 presidential campaign, he remained silent.
In February of this year, McCain backtracked still further from his anti-torture position, voting against legislation that would have blocked the CIA from subjecting inmates in its secret prisons to waterboarding, hooding, putting duct tape across their eyes, stripping them naked, rape, beatings, burning, subjecting them to hypothermia, mock executions, and other "harsh interrogation techniques."
"The CIA should have the ability to use additional techniques," he argued. He refused to explain why the CIA ought to be allowed to torture while the DOD should adhere to international standards of civilized behavior.
The U.S. continues to torture.
Unlike McCain, Obama remains a critic of officially sanctioned torture. "We'll reject torture--without exception or equivocation," Obama says. He would also end "the practice of shipping away prisoners in the dead of night to be tortured in far-off countries, of detaining thousands without charge or trial, of maintaining a network of secret prisons to jail people beyond the reach of the law."
The trouble is, Obama isn't laying the groundwork for stopping torture or closing Guantánamo or other U.S. gulags in his stump speeches. He talks a lot about energy policy, healthcare, jobs and the economy--and withdrawing troops from Iraq so they join the war against Afghanistan instead. If he becomes president, people will expect him to do those things. Without a sustained focus on human rights issues, however, any moves he makes will seem to come out of the blue--and face stronger pushback from Republicans anxious to bash him as weak on national security.
Why doesn't Obama emphasize Bush's war crimes? Maybe he's trying to play the Great Uniter, or maybe he knows that many Americans don't give a rat's ass about the pain inflicted against people they'll never meet in places they've never heard of. Who knows? All we know for sure is that, day after day, Obama fails to talk about what is arguably the worst crime of the corrupt Bush Administration.
Of course, renouncing torture isn't enough. Those who authorized it must be held to account. However, it doesn't seem likely that they will.
Asked in April whether he would prosecute Bush Administration officials for authorizing torture, Obama delivered his now-familiar duck-and-cover: say the right thing, then weasel out of it. "If crimes have been committed, they should be investigated," he said.
But not for at least four years: "I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of the Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we've got too many problems to solve."
Memo to Barack: This isn't about prosecuting Republicans. It's about prosecuting torturers.
"Prosecution of any officials, if it were to occur, would probably not occur during Obama's first term," Slate reports, citing Obama campaign insiders. "Instead, we may well see a Congressionally empowered commission that would seek testimony from witnesses in search of the truth about what occurred. Though some witnesses might be offered immunity in exchange for testimony, the question of whether anybody would be prosecuted would be deferred to a later date--meaning Obama's second term, if such is forthcoming."
First would come a South African-style "Truth and Reconciliation Commission," where the truth would come out. But the torturers would get off scot-free.
"The commission would focus strictly on detention, torture and extraordinary rendition, or the practice of spiriting detainees to a third country for abusive interrogations. The panel would focus strictly on these abuses, leaving out any other allegedly illegal activities during the Bush Administration, such as domestic spying," says Slate. Second--well, there might not be a second. Even if there is, shortsighted Americans' appetite for justice and accountability will probably have been diluted by the time 2013 rolls around.
Mainline media liberals, in conjunction with Obama supporters, are even going so far as to suggest that Bush issue his torturers with a blanket pardon in exchange for their testimony at Obama's toothless commission.
Regardless of who wins in November, we will get a president who's better on torture and other human rights issues than George W. Bush. At least their words sound nice. But real change and moral redemption will only begin if we--Democrats, Republicans and everyone else--demand the next president stands by his pretty promises.
Until they start taking taking torture, Gitmo and human rights seriously, neither Obama nor McCain should be able to appear in public without facing questions and heckling about these issues.


54 Comments so far
Show AllTed says: "renouncing torture isn't enough" and it makes me think of that scene in the first Godfather movie when Al Pacino is at his kid's baptism and the priest is saying "Do you renounce Satan and all his works" and Al says "I do renounce him" all the while intercutting between a whole series of mob hits being done at his behest at that exact moment.
Hypocrisy is endemic to human nature.
"It's the torture, stupid" is stupid. Liberals fail to realize that half the people in the country (Republicans) think that torture is fine---to them just a form of "playing hardball" or "kicking ass", which they like and admire in a "tough" president.
This author now wants to derail Obama by demanding he be heckled everywhere in public on "torture". Good grief, Ted, why don't you call for Obama to be heckled everywhere by abortion foes and gay bashers too? You're inviting the same result----a dumb single-issue loss.
I never get tired of saying this:
Is there a MORE worn-out and lame dodge to whitewash scandal, high crimes, and malfeasance than the "(truth) commission"?
Amerika has the equivalent of a Senior Tour for such burlesques; an elite bipartisan boatload of Esteemed Wise Persons deemed by their almost-peers (for they are themselves peerless) and the corporate media shills to have Impeccable Credentials and Sterling Reputations. They are venerated for being High-Minded and Highly-Principled; they are reputedly persons of Keen Insight and Unimpeachable Integrity.
Who would it be this time around? George Mitchell? John Danforth? Henry Kissinger? Madeleine Albright? Lee Hamilton? Arlen Specter? Sandra Day O'Connor, perhaps, or Robert Bork? James A. Baker? (thanks, Ephraim) Bob Kerrey, maybe, moving up from the minors?
No doubt such charlatans will put on a good show, with appropriate Mega-hyped Earnest Media Coverage. The "half-full" CD contributors will faithfully follow the bouncing ball and urge relentless public pressure to ensure that these co-opted and compromised scam artists pursue the issues rigorously, and present a comprehensive and unsparing final report.
And then more and more relentless public pressure will be called for to persuade the President to support whatever further investigations, indictments, and prosecutions are necessary to actually bring any and all miscreants to justice. Provided, as Rall notes, that they don't spay and de-claw the proceedings in the first place by trading truth for consequences, and obsequiously inviting participation by guaranteeing the equivalent of blanket immunity and amnesty.
In any case, sooner than later it all goes straight down the Memory Hole anyway– another twisted tale of sound & fury, signifying nothing. If Obama is elected, and countenances such a commission, it will serve as a useful pretext for a sonorous Lincolnesque Second Inaugural Address redux, an imprimatur which pronounces our weary and torn Nation healed, and ready to turn away from the fractious past and resume building our Promised Land.
I'm tearing up just thinking about it.
LITTLE BROTHER: Half the time I don't even care WHAT you say, but damn, bro, you're so darn good AT saying it! It's all about marketing, brand names and that most esteemed of all states in a media-culture: celebrity. A lot of peerless peers truly think IF it's on TV, MUST be an expert.
Last night I made the mistake of trying to watch the film BRAZIL with my blue collar boyfriend, from a family of ignorant, arrogant (albeit good with tools, and good looking) republicans. He turned it off after 10 minutes, babbled about not liking how Brits talk, or identifying with their humor. He truly could not connect what this film was saying with WHERE our nation NOW is, and how tragic, albeit masked in dark comedy, the mirror's reflection is.
I was glad to then see the opening Olympic ceremony, those several thousands entranced in Tai Chi, brilliant spiritual choreography. Talked to my 82 year old life-long mentor today who said THAT ceremony gave him hope, that he had no idea China had a spiritual side. I related what I'd witnessed in Singapore, a wonderful integration between Western materialistic goals with the higher quest for spiritual growth. THAT is utterly lacking on our turf. He said he saw hope in the rise of a more enlightened Asian people. I agreed that the US empire was in stages of decay. Whether the nation--its body and psyche--finds the power & grace to rise like a phoenix from its own ashes, is yet to be seen.
Wish I could meet some of you for a drink tonight... blessings to all.
Everyone now says they are against Torture. Why don't they do something NOW then? November is far too late. By that time they might have changed their minds as supporting Torture seems to be like a fashion.
I'm reporting for duty General Taguba.
Happy Birthday Siouxrose. You are always a guiding light on here and we wouldn't know what to do without you. Cyber Cheers to you!
Philosophers and theologians have written many volumes on how the human brain processes "the other".
When I see another person who I do not know and who cannot see me, as from a distance, I can think "That is not me" or I can think "There I go again".
The first response is one of a person who can never understand how the other's pain can hurt him, the second is the response of a person who sees the pain of the other as being his own pain.
Between these two extremes are infinite gradations in the ability of an individual to see him/her self as being that other person.
The complete absence of such an ability is the definition of a sociopath, or psychopath. Such personality types are usually charming. They have learned how to tell others what they want to hear. Everything they do is an act, and through long practice they have become expert actors. I believe close to 10% of the population are sociopaths.
I believe that close to another 10% are saints. I have no references, just a rough guess based on my experience. Many saints are recluses. When they see the way most of the rest of us treat each other they are shocked and hurt. They find it more comfortable to be alone.
Only politicians get elected to office. It is obvious on which end of the continuum most politicians fall.
There has to be a better way of choosing leaders.
turns out that Nancy Peloser was aware of it, and approved of it.
Why are you mindless Lesser Evilists, lame ass Dem Party Apologists still voting Democratic?
And when are you apologizing to Nader?
By the way, GORE LOST, get over it.
Please note that Mr. David put scare quotes around the word torture. This suggests to me that he doesn't believe it's torture if such a belief is inconvenient to the Democrats' acquisition of total power. This makes Mr. David into a kind of Judas Goat or quisling, intentionally or not, and his arguments attempt to stifle dissent into channels acceptable to the power elite.
Tetti - How do you win a rigged election?
And how's this for an idea: Black bag McShame and send him back to his captors in Viet Nam. They obviously did not do a good enough job on him to utterly oppose ANYONE being tortured as he claims he was. BTW, wasn't McInsane known as the 'Hanoi Songbird' while he was a 'prisoner'?
He really is 'The Manchurian Candidate'.
This ain't the New American Century.
Does China Torture? I'm not sure. But they are a Police-State.
And Nader is Helping.
1/3 of Ralph's total investment's, millions, are in Cisco Systems.
Naomi Klein says Cisco Systems works "Hand in glove" with China implementing and operating their Surveillance Systems.*
That is Evil.
I guess at best, that would make Nader (he's got money in Dow=Napalm Too) a 'Lesser Evil.' At Best.
He is A Republican Tool For Certain.
Want To Please Dick Cheney? Vote for Nader or McCain.
Want To Please the World? Vote for Obama.
*In article on CD right now.
lisa3210peace,
Are you serious??? Nader a Republican tool! OMG, I almost fell off my chair.
Ask Naomi Klein if she thinks Ralph Nader is a tool? I dare you.
Galen, agreed on McCain. Burgess Meredith would play a perfect McCain in the TV movie, his Penguin was so ingenious. Too bad he died, we still have Danny DeVito though.
Obama would be played by OJ Simpson, who's also a horrible actor.
As for the rigged election, who cares? GORE LOST, he deserved it. He lost his own home state. He didn't fight like a man, Democrats don't, they're COWARDS.
A Gore presidency with Lieberman as VP would've been just as disastrous. Tweedledee, Tweedledum, who cares.
Tetti - Given that Lieberman is a creature of AIPAC, and Gore is owned by the corporations, you are probably right.
What chafes the hell out of me is that two US federal elections were stolen (2000 & 2004), in plain view of the entire world, and you did NOTHING!
As to a selection of actors to play McShame and O'ham-a: watch a flick called 'The Cassandra Crossing'. It *stars* (and I use the word advisedly) OJ 'I got away with killing a white girl!' Simpson. The best thing about his role is he dies in a futile attempt at heroics.
And if John McCain is so okay with torture, excuse me, 'enhanced interrogation techniques', he should volunteer to be tasered and then water-boarded on live TV, just to show people how 'safe' it is.
If he doesn't, then he should at least shut the hell up.
The question of the US' practice of torture props up again and again. In most of the writings the authors have tried impress that the US' practice of torture is limited to the Bush's presidency, and so it is only an abherration. This line of argument is followed not because the writers are ignorant of the US' history of torture since its inception. They are only trying to perpetuate the same "American myth" as vividly expressed by George W. Bush: "Our nation is chosen by God and commissioned by history to be a model for the world." The VICTIM of this "American myth" is the TRUTH. This "American myth" has also justified cruelty against humanity. Madeleine Albright asserted: " If we have to use force (and torture), it is because we are AMERICA!"
There are 275 military schools and installations, like Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, in the US where, along with the US soldiers, atleast 100,000 foreign police and soldiers from more than 150 countries are TRAINED. CIA, which is evolved as the US president's private army has used these TRAINEES in their countries in military coups, and to torture and kill those associated with anti-imperialist movements (eg. Nicaragua, Chile under Pinochet, paramilitary in Colombia). In some of these schools the students are trained in TORTURE TECHNIQUES.
Read some of these articles:
1. www. democracynow.org, Monday, June 25th, 2007
"The CIA's Torture Teachers: Psychologists Helped the CIA Exploit a Secret Military Program to Develop Brutal Interrogation Tactics"
2. "Torture As Official US Policy"
By Stephen Lendman
18 July, 2008, www.Countercurrents.org
Galen, yes the world did nothing. That's because when cancer is inoperable, there's nothing to be done.
America has inoperable cancer, a powerfully devastating disease. The cancerous cells are too strong and too greedy to let go.
I know Cassandra Crossing well by the way, great score by Jerry Goldsmith.
EvilTwinSkippy; Crawl back on your stool, and,
Google; Nader Republican Tool
The Utube hit, 1st or 2nd is a clip of NADER ON FOX NEWS ATTACKING DEMOCRATS.
Eff Fox News and it's talking Head Ralph Nader.
He is ALWAYS on Fox News attacking Democrats.
You going to watch the clip?
My guess is you saw it when it aired.
Fox Off.
Siouxrose
I believe that birthday congratulations are in order.
Happy Birthday! And may you always be surrounded by younger, good looking, energetic young
men....even if they do come from the wrong side (Republican!) of the blanket!
Tetti - Would you agree that when the 'cancer' is inoperable, it would be best to follow the Hippocratic oath and relieve the 'patient' of their distress, pain and suffering with a dose of hemlock laced with good strong hemp?
Whatever Americans decide about the torture issue, outside the US, under International Law, laws which the US was involved in drafting, torture and rendition are crimes.
Although Americans generally do not see themselves as subject to the constraints of international law, the rest of the world does.
If you think that International Law is meaningless, ask Henry Kissinger.
He cannot travel to Europe, because there is an outstanding warrant for him in Spain for crimes commited by Nixon and Kissinger in Chile, leading to the death of a number of Spanish citizens. If he travels anywhere in the EU, he can be extradited to Spain.
Since the end of WWII, the US has been the top economic and military power in the world by orders of magnitude. Now you remain a great military power, but the economic power has been frittered away, wasted, and now you are a debtor nation, at the mercy of your creditors.
One more thing, I have heard it said, and I believe it to be true, that there can be no peace without justice.
Claiming to be against torture does not differentiate Bush, McCain and Obama. If you want to know if a candidate is against torture, ask them to say three simple words:
WATERBOARING
IS
TORTURE
if they can't say those three words, then for practical purposes, they are not against torture. Its that simple. Ask Obama and McCain to say these three words. I will not vote for anyone who can't say them.
Siouxrose: Thomas More, who I trust, inferrs it is your birthday? Most very best!
I know we're different on positions and style-on the former I'm wrong of the latter I've none,
Which contrasts sharply with your poetic, spiritual and graceful posts.
MostBestMostBest.
Although Obama's wishy-washy over-qualifications usually annoy me, I think he's right to dodge this issue after the fact.
If prosecution of Bush/Cheney and all the other sadistic Republicans thugs in Washington would stop torture now, I would support it, but after Obama shuts down the torture chambers, it would be silly to back Republicans into a corner with criminal prosecutions.
If you corner them, they are likely to do some real damage out of desperation, and we should know by now just how crazy they can be. If some renegade Republican congressman, God forbid, shoots down Barack Obama in the Capitol the day after Bush or Cheney is arrested, what comes next?
It seems to me that Ted Rall is saying revenge is more important than peace, and that's what I call "thinking like a Republican."
I have been warning everyone for months about torture and warrantless activites by law enforement, the IAFF and community watch groups.
The illegal forced entry at Cheye Calvo's home this week , the mayor of Berwyn Heights, Md. should be a lesson to the nation.
This country has become an unchecked runaway police state.
Local law enforcement does what ever it pleases and is backed by the FEDS because of the Patriot Act, which also includes organized stalking an Cointel Pro conducted by agency's that do not have to obey the law.
The IAFF , EMS, and local community watch groups are conducting highly illegal Cointel Pro torture mind control tactics on American citizens.
This is what they have been taught to do by the FBI and CIA and DHS.
You can not have a war on terror without fear of suspects.
So , lets face facts , there are not many terrorists here,we have had 8 years and 400 billion dollars spent to find them, and how many have they found?????
So to keep the DHS money train going, you have to have home grown terrorists, so you create them using Cointel Pro tactics.
You heard me , you have organized slander and liable campaigns against choice targets in you city or town , create fear in the community , recruit community watch organized stalkers and train them on cointel pro tactics, not surveillance.
The watch groups don't even know they are participating in torture of the suspect. They are clueless, they get off on the suspects reactions.
This is some very sick stuff, happening nation wide, and being paid for by DHS dollars through grants to private corporations, IAFF , EMS and Law enforcement.
They are all working outside the law and the Patriot Act is fueling this mess.
So the Mayor Calvos house is raided , his dogs are killed , and the true story about the warrant less activity barley makes the light of day.
Destroy the patriot act, the constitution is the law of the land, and for Gods sake, Americans should be able to clearly understand why our founding fathers have the second amendment in the constitution.
The greatest threat to our Democracy will come from a government that circumvents our checks and balances that our constitution provides.
We have 300 million registered guns in this country, all " We the People " have to do is demand the constitution be made the law of the land, and I am sure the government will listen.
Born Free Men
On the street in Cumberland, MD the other day, I got into a conversation with a middle aged white guy wearing a white shirt and tie with one hand casually in his pocket. He stood right there and told me that it doesn't matter who is elected president, what matters is who is chosen for vice-president--because McCain would die in office and Obama would be assassinated. He said all this with a little smug and superior smile on his face then just walked away. I guess as long as he keeps pulling in a good salary he doesn't care which. Yeah, they're real patriotic around here.
All violent criminals are conservatives. One just tried to assassinate Obama.
Courts in other countries could give Obama a way out by indicting American officials, up to and including Bush, and requesting extradition under existing treaties. Obama could then argue--correctly--that the law demands that they be handed over for trial.
Galen August 9th, 2008 8:17 pm
Tetti - Given that Lieberman is a creature of AIPAC, and Gore is owned by the corporations, you are probably right.
What chafes the hell out of me is that two US federal elections were stolen (2000 & 2004), in plain view of the entire world, and you did NOTHING!
Heh, I was in D.C. at Freedom Plaza with thousands and thousands J20, 01,
were YOU there?! No tv coverage and the world thinks no one protested. NO WAR ON IRAQ! COUNTLESS protests and millions worldwide were out there in the streets(WERE YOU?!), still the war. What the hell are we to DO?!
"Regardless of who wins in November, we will get a president who's better on torture and other human rights issues than George W. Bush."
This statement blithely assumes that the Dick and Dubya show doesn't
1. Attack Iran.
2. Attack US (again) so they can
3. Invoke Martial Law and
4.Cancel the dog and pony show they call "the election" altogether.
Nothing Exists.
If the handover cannot be recorded, it will not happen.
Knowledge of McNaderby. Where are my soothsayers?
Who wants what's coming 20 years from now?
Who allows these discrepid souls to shine among the lights of the Devil's media heaven's?
lisa3210peace August 9th, 2008 5:55 pm
"1/3 of Ralph's total investment's, millions, are in Cisco Systems."
I already pointed out to you on another thread that that information is 8 years old. If you have a newer source post the link.
I also pointed out that Nader was giving away 80% of his after tax income and owned neither a house or a car. Both of which you failed to mention but was also included in your 8 year old data.
Lobo Gris
Run Ralph Run!
Lobo Gris: Google ralph nader cisco
Third Hit. RALPH NADER, STUPIDER THAN WE THOUGHT.
Dated July 18th 2008.
Gets into his ownership of Cisco, Nice Try.
Crawl Ralph Crawl
Or: Google: nader cisco systems 2008
And the hits go on and on and on, detailing this Lobo Gris IN 2008.
Lobo Gris; Do you know how to use Google? I know mcCain does not. Learn how and check your facts before you go off on me.
Naomi Klein: Cisco Systems works "hand in glove" with China implementning and operating surveillance systems.
I guess if one still likes Ralph, it is because they think he is a lesser evil! hahahaha. too funny. bring it on.
Obama '08.
Bluesky - I live in Canada. And when I saw what was happening, I was beyond appalled and outraged.
All you had to do to see where Bush and his ilk were leading the country was look at how his handlers stole the election in 2000. And 2004.
And I have been to almost every peace march here in the Lower Mainland in BC that I can get to.
And guess what? The RCMP here is just as bad as your COINTELPRO setup in the US.
Does the President have the authority to issue a non-specific "blanket pardon" for crimes not yet accused or proven? Yeah, I guess that's what Ford did for Nixon. Still, who's going to issue the blanket pardon for Bush? Can he give himself a blanket pardon?
JACK CANUCK: Right on!
BORN FREEMAN: I am quite tuned into what you are saying. It reminds me of the era where women were accused of being witches and burned. Don't forget Arthur Miller wrote, THE CRUCIBLE as a symbolic study in what was STILL possible. He watched lives and careers ruined under the "watch state" that McCarthy's era constituted. As a writer who at one time had her own TV show and was a frequent radio guest on a number of Florida stations to one who has been effectively blacklisted, these people DO maintain a tight grip on the perceptions they allow the public to be apprised of. Any who rock the boat are targeted, and as you well related, the mechanisms for the state to now seize or ruin such peoples are at an all time high.
THOMAS MORE: You have a good sense of humor! Having done deep astrological analyses for 30 years, it's clear to me that we all come in with specific lessons that we will be forced to work on in any given lifetime. Some get job karma, money karma, health karma... mine is the "close encounters" sort. However, I seem to LIVE my scripts and then they become works of art. My Republican squeeze is fodder for a hilarious script in early stages of development based on a blue collar worker laid off, and what he has to do to make it (financially) in this new global economy. I won't give my plot line away as this work is not yet tied up or copywritten. Point is--Ms. Rose here extracts poetic justice, no love interest gets a free ride!
CITIZEN BLOG: Thank you so much for your acknowledgement.
LISA 3210: You surprised me! I am a Nader fan, but I am so glad you could put aside that difference, and wish me well. (I am not sure how I will vote yet, but deeply resent the way the "choices" are framed for us. )
The sun is shining on this Sun-day in the sunshine state that OUGHT be the world leader in solar technology, rather than bloody wars over oil as Mother Nature burns... enjoy your day everyone! I don't feel a bit older (LOL).
"It seems to me that Ted Rall is saying revenge is more important than peace, and that's what I call "thinking like a Republican." "
It seems to me he's saying justice is a prerequisite for peace.
The "spiritual" symbolism of the Olympics is a facade:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/04/vause.gold.machines.cnn
Don't forget--the Chinese authorities outlawed the Falung Gong spiritual sect that practiced meditation and opposed commercialism and rampant materialism. Many, if not most Falung Gong members were incarcerated and even executed. Here in the U.S. media hardly a peep in protest. Even the progressive left didn't protest much, if they even knew about it.
I agree that we are living in a police state. I realized that 40 years ago on Michigan Avenue in Chicago when I tried to participate in a demonstration against the war in Viet Nam during the Democratic National Convention.
As a 17 year old kid just out of high school civics class, I thought we had Constitutional rights to assemble and peaceably demonstrate.
I watched in terror and amazement as a big crowd of police in riot gear stampeded out of all the side streets. First they smashed the TV cameras, and beat up anyone with a camera or who was taking notes. Then thousands more cops (we called them pigs) attacked and they began running anyone down they could get their hands on and beating them bloody and unconscious. The cops were operating in teams of 5 or 6 and they would gang up on individuals and then just beat them and leave them lying, injured, we thought dead, on the ground and then run hollering and grunting until they grabbed another victim.
Lake Shore drive presented an escape route until Army jeeps with barbed wire wrapped timber frames on the front came racing south in both the northbound and southbound lanes and started crashing, full speed, into the crowd of demonstrators, running peolpe over and leaving a wake of crying, sreaming, bleeding people laying on the ground and stumbling along with blood streaming down their faces and broken and twisted limbs jutting at odd angles through their torn and bloody clothes.
There were 12,000 Chicago pigs, a like number of fully armed National Guard troops, and 27,000 regular Army troops with full combat gear and automatic weapons arrayed against 3,000 unarmed, peaceful demonstrators.
The film clips you see from those days of police riot in Chicago are usually of cops, somewhat brutally, pushing some token prisoners into big paddy wagons. But what really happened that day was the police delivered a beating to anyone they could get their clubs and weapons on. They weren't interested in arresting anyone or enforcing the law. Because the law was on the side of the demonstrators. The Pigs were beating people to teach them the lesson that the Pigs and Mayor Daily were the boss. You had no rights at all - and if you didn't do what they said, they could and would kill you. It was terrorism, not law enforcement.
That was only my first experience proving we are living in a police state, and I have seen many more examples in the past 30 years.
heavyrunner; The jeep with the 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire on the bumper running over protestors is a powerful image.
Thanks for that powerful post.
The tide may not turn until an event like what happened in Tehran Square in 1979 happens here: The Shah ordered his Generals to Machine-Gun the protestors, a sea of humanity, and they refused.
And after decades of Savak Torture, learned at the School of the Americas, after all the lost and disappeared, it ended.
By that time though, most people in Iran had a relative who had already been killed or tortured.
How long until our Police refuse to shoot us, to beat us, to mace us?
Namaste: Aahh, thank you for adding to heavyrunner's potent post.
I hope that day served you well in life-a black and white snanpshot sprayed with color.
Blinders offorever.
It will be interesting to read of effery republican provoked and laid at the feet of-blood-curdling scream of terror here please-Anti-American Leftwingers.
Presence, This Hit's For You. Later.
lisa3210peace August 10th, 2008 10:20 am
Your insults and sarcasm aside the Jack Lewis article also states that Nader doesn't disclose his finances and he offers no proof that Nader is invested in Cisco in 2008.
As to your claim that the hits go on and on that isn't true either.
The lead hit is from an article in Slate Magazine dated Jun 26, 2000 which does say that Nader is invested in Cisco. As I stated, the information is 8 years old which is I'm sure why you didn't mention it.
I will restate my request that if you have newer info post the link to it, rather than going off on long diatribes.
Lobo Gris
The activist fantasy that the last mid-term election (2006)was
a statement by the US public to ...fill in your goals (health care, jobs, etc.) is pure hokum. We are a (non-) combination
of different people. I think Speaker Pelosi has done a magnificent job and where I disagree, I say so.
I am a Democrat.
" No answers to these questions can possibly be obtained
today in the terms afforded by American public discourse
on the Middle East. In this, a presidential election year, more
than in preceding years what the various candidates have said
about the Middle East has been especially depressing. Every one
of them salutes Israeli accomplishments with reckless
abandon: Israel is not only our 'staunch ally'; it is also a
'bastion of democracy,' and a state beleaguered by terrorism..." Edward W. Said in "THE POLITICS OF DISPOSSESION"
(Vintage Books, NY), p.44 (paperback ed.)
Ronald Reagan went on to win that election. But things haven't
changed too much.
peterloeb@yahoo.com
Lobo Gris: Nader has long been invested in Cisco Systems.
Ralph Nader is notorious for hiding his investments, and I can see why. His investments in Fidelity Magellan, with their $ in turn invested in Wal-Mart, Dow=napalm, Raytheon=cluster bombs is embarrassing.*
Given the fact that his Cisco Systems ownership is long-standing, a matter of public record, the onus is on you to demonstrate he divested if you can.
1 or 2% of Americans support Nader. And the rest of us are idiots. Yawn. Vote for him. Please Cheney.
* To anyone who says FM separates their $, puts some here, some there, I scoff. They are evil. Period. Eff creative accounting.
" . . .or maybe he [Obama] knows that many Americans don't give a rat's ass about the pain inflicted against people they'll never meet in places they've never heard of."
Bingo.
But even more importantly, Americans don't like to be REMINDED of the fact that they don't give a rat's ass about inflicting suffering on foreigners. They are much happier believing that only Arabs, Muslims or other non-christian barbarians commit such heinous acts.