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Today's Top News
Getting Georgia's War On
The outbreak of war in Georgia on Friday offers a disturbing and somewhat surreal taste of what to expect from John McCain should he become our nation's Commander in Chief. As the centuries-old ethnic animosities between Georgia and Ossetia boiled over into another armed conflict, drawing in neighboring Russia, McCain issued a stark-raving statement from Des Moines that is disturbingly reminiscent of the language used in the lead-up to NATO's war against Yugoslavia in 1999, a war McCain zealously pushed for:
"We should immediately call a meeting of the North Atlantic Council to assess Georgia's security and review measures NATO can take to contribute to stabilizing this very dangerous situation," McCain said.
Calling on NATO to "stabilize this dangerous situation" is not going down well with Russia, where images of dead Russian peacekeepers and of frightened Ossetian refugees streaming across its borders have put the country in a very vengeful mood. It's hard to imagine what measures NATO could take under a McCain presidency, but in the mind of a man who thinks US troops should stay in Iraq for 100 years, and who runs around singing "Bomb Bomb Iran!" it's not hard to guess--and even harder not to be horrified by what it may mean come January 2009, should he win.
McCain's call to NATO-ize the war is not only frightening, it's also delusional: both NATO and US forces are already stretched beyond the breaking point, even by Joint Chief of Staff chairman Michael Millen's own recent assessment.
But McCain's brain remains undeterred by reality, a fact that became painfully clear today in Des Moines when he also demanded, "The US should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course."
The problem with McCain's bold demand about going to the UN is that Russia already tried doing exactly what McCain called for--and got rejected by McCain's neocon pals in the Bush Administration. Early this morning, Russia convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, calling on both sides to immediately cease hostilities, return to the negotiating table and renounce the use of force--but the last part about renouncing the use of force is exactly what Georgia's president Mikhail Saakashvili refuses to do.
The Bush Administration showed that it too has no patience with crunchy "renounce the use of force" resolutions. According to a Reuters report from earlier in the day:
At the request of Russia, the U.N. Security Council held an emergency session in New York but failed to reach consensus early Friday on a Russian-drafted statement.
The council concluded it was at a stalemate after the United States, Britain and some other members backed the Georgians in rejecting a phrase in the three-sentence draft statement that would have required both sides "to renounce the use of force," council diplomats said.
The meaning of this is clear: the United States and Britain are backing Saakashvili's invasion. Why would we back Saakashvili's reckless war, when last year even Bush was denouncing the Pinochet-wannabe's violent attack on his own people during a peaceful opposition protest in Georgia's capital, as well as shutting down the opposition media and exiling of political opponents? That would be a brain-teaser if the last seven years hadn't answered this question so many painful times already.
But with McCain, answering this is a little trickier. When he issued today's Des Moines statement calling for Russia to do what Russia already did a few hours earlier, you have to ask yourself: either McCain's short-term memory is totally shot, encased in an impenetrable tomb of aluminum-zirconium plaque... or worse, McCain simply doesn't give a damn about reality, he just wants to get Georgia's war on, as badly as Saakashvili does.
The awful truth is probably a combination of the two, which is the worst of all worlds, considering McCain's raving Russophobia, and his campaign team's financial and ideological ties to Saakashvili. As has been reported, McCain's top foreign policy advisor, neocon Randy Scheunemann, has a long financial relationship with Saakashvili to lobby his interests in the United States.
According to the Wall Street Journal:
In 2005, Mr. Scheunemann asked Sen. McCain to introduce a Senate resolution expressing support for peace in the Russian-influenced region of South Ossetia that wants to break away from Georgia, the records show.
Such resolutions of Senate support are symbolic but helpful to countries in their diplomatic relations. The Senate approved Sen. McCain's resolution in December 2005, and the Georgian Embassy posted the text on its Web site.
Sen. McCain has endorsed Georgia's goal of entering NATO, a matter for which the country hired Mr. Scheunemann to lobby. In 2006, Senator McCain gave a speech at the Munich Conference on Security in Germany in which he said "Georgia has implemented far-reaching political, economic, and military reforms" and should enter NATO, a text of his speech on the conference Web site shows.
Scheunemann, a bearded, pear-faced gun geek who looks like what might have happened to a GI Joe doll if it had spent years stuffing its face at pricey restaurants while power-schmoozing politicians and petty dictators, also worked for recently-disgraced Bush fundraiser Stephen Payne, lobbying for his Caspian Alliance oil business. The Caspian oil pipeline runs through Georgia, the main reason that country has tugged the heartstrings of neocons and oil plutocrats for at least a decade or more.
In 2006, McCain visited Georgia and denounced the South Ossetian separatists, proving that Scheunemann wasn't wasting his Georgian sponsor's money. At a speech he gave in a Georgian army base in Senaki, McCain declared that Georgia was America's "best friend," and that Russian peacekeepers should be thrown out.
Today, Georgian forces from that same Senaki base are part of the invasion force into South Ossetia, an invasion that has left scores--perhaps hundreds--of dead locals, at least ten dead Russian peacekeepers, and 140 million pissed-off Russians calling for blood.
Lost in all of this is not only the question of why America would risk an apocalypse to help a petty dictator like Saakashvili get control of a region that doesn't want any part of him. But no one's bothering to ask what the Ossetians themselves think about it, or why they're fighting for their independence in the first place. That's because the Georgians--with help from lobbyists like Scheunemann--have been pushing the line that South Ossetia is a fiction, a construct of evil Kremlin neo-Stalinists, rather than a people with a genuine grievance.
A few years ago, I had an Ossetian working as the sales director for my now-defunct newspaper, The eXile. After listening to me rave about how much I always (and still do) like the Georgians, he finally lost it and told me another side to Georgian history, explaining how the Georgians had always mistreated the Ossetians, and how the South Ossetians wanted to reunite with North Ossetia in order to avoid being swallowed up, and how this conflict goes way back, long before the Soviet Union days. It was clear that the Ossetian-Georgian hatred was old and deep, like many ethnic conflicts in this region. Indeed, a number of Caucasian ethnic groups still harbor deep resentment towards Georgia, accusing them of imperialism, chauvinism and arrogance.
One example of this can be found in historian Bruce Lincoln's book, Red Victory, in which he writes about the period of Georgia's brief independence from 1917 to 1921, a time when Georgia was backed by Britain:
the Georgian leaders quickly moved to widen their borders at the expense of their Armenian and Azerbaijani neighbors, and their territorial greed astounded foreign observers. 'The free and independent socialist democratic state of Georgia will always remain in my memory as a classic example of an imperialist small nation," one British journalist wrote.... "Both in territory snatching outside and bureaucratic tyranny inside, its chauvinism was beyond all bounds."
On Thursday, following intense Georgian shelling and katyusha rocketing into Tskhinvali, refugees streamed out of South Ossetia telling reporters that the Georgians had completely leveled entire villages and most of Tskhinvali, leaving "piles of corpses" in the streets, over 1,000 by some counts. Among the dead are at least ten Russian peacekeepers, who fell after their base was attacked by Georgian forces. Reports also say that Georgian forces destroyed a hotel where Russian journalists were staying.
In response, Russian jets bombed Georgian positions both inside South Ossetia and into Georgia proper, attacking one base where American military instructors are quartered (no Americans were reported hurt). By mid-afternoon Moscow time, as local television showed burning homes and Ossetian women and children huddling in bomb shelters, armored Russian columns were crossing into Georgian territory, and Georgia's President called for a total mobilization of military-aged men for war with Russia.
The invasion was backed up by a PR offensive so layered and sophisticated that I even got an hysterical call today from a hedge fund manager in New York, screaming about an "investor call" that Georgian Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze made this morning with some fifty leading Western investment bank managers and analysts. I've since seen a J.P. Morgan summary of the conference call, which pretty much reflects the talking points later picked up by the US media.
These kinds of conference calls are generally conducted by the heads of companies in order to give banking analysts guidance. But as the hedge fund manager told me today, "The reason Lado did this is because he knew the enormous PR value that Georgia would gain by going to the money people and analysts, particularly since Georgia is clearly the aggressor this time." As a former investment banker who worked in London and who used to head the Bank of Georgia, Gurgenidze knew what he was doing. "Lado is a former banker himself, so he knew that by framing the conflict for the most influential bankers and analysts in New York, that these power bankers would then write up reports and go on CNBC and argue Lado Gurgenidze's talking points. It was brilliant, and now you're starting to see the American media shift its coverage from calling it Georgia invading Ossetian territory, to the new spin, that it's Russian imperial aggression against tiny little Georgia."
The really scary thing about this investor conference call is that it suggests real planning. As the hedge fund manager told me, "These things aren't set up on an hour's notice."
Where this war is leading is impossible to say, but as Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention Chechnya, have shown, wars have a funny way of lasting longer, costing more in money and lives, and snuffing out whatever individual liberties the affected populations may have. As good as this war is for Saakashvili, who has become increasingly unpopular at home and abroad, or for McCain, whose poll numbers seem to rise every time the plaque devours another lobe of his brain, it also bodes well for the resurgent Prime Minister Putin, who seems to have become increasingly peeved with his hand-picked successor, President Dmitry Medvedev's flickering independence and his liberalizer shtick. There's nothing like a good war to snuff out an uppity sois-disant liberal who's getting in your way--even McCain can still grasp this concept.
As I'm filing this, Russian forces are battling to take back Tskhinvali, while Saakashvili has been alternately claiming to have pulled his forces back, or that his forces are in full control of the city and defeating the Russians. Meanwhile, Georgia has been on a massive, successful, multi-layered PR offensive in the West, helped by years of cultivating people like John McCain as well as the army of neocons and old cold warriors who naturally gravitate to a fight with Russia.
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66 Comments so far
Show AllHaileCODEPINK (love that name .. a tribute to my codepink girls)
This article is interesting
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag02.html
This analyst ties this Georgian adventure to Bush and his cronies and ultimately caucasian oil. If Europe folds (as usual) and NATO accepts Georgia into its fold, Russia will react and im not sure if thats gonna be pretty. Our neocons (Cheney and Co) are truly brilliant and probably the most effective cabal in the history of the modern world.
In any event, the fact that Obama parrots the neo-cons lines again is extremely distressing from a foreign policy point of view. Nothing really changes as far as U.S. Empire is concerned. Neo-Imperialism is here to stay.
The Realist
I don't know why it's so hard for you and a few others here to get it through your heads that GEORGIA ATTACKED SOUTH OSSETIA. The U.S. stooge president of Georgia would never have launched such an undertaking without the express approval of the White House who clearly did not anticipate the fury of the Russian retaliation. Now you've got all the neocon clowns (Kristol, etc.)actually advocating that we go to war with Russia. Just exactly what is our threshold for this kind of bullshit?
What goes on at the behest of the terragantic military industrial complex is beyond the rhetoric of either John McCain or Barack Obama. Regardless of which sock puppet gets to sit in the White House they will have little to say nor have much ability in altering the agenda of the ruling elite that they serve, nor, will they want to.
Do you think anyone will actually give a damn that WCaucasian business interests are willing to stir up ancient ethnic hostilities in order to make another buck(or ruble)? Do you think anyone will even find either Ossetia on a map? Since Ossetia of either flavour doesn't have the romance of a Tibet or a Nepal, this war, too, which, by the way, has been going on for decades, will pass without notice or comment from the hoi-poloi...until somebody finds a Muslim faction in the mix and then everyone can take sides again. Yay. It all sounds so much like Bosnia 2.0, doesn't it? No one here will care until it affects prices at the pump.
But thanks for trying, Mark.
Before posters get on the Russian bandwagon, breathe one second and realize whom you are talking about: Czar Putin & Co. These are the same guys who invaded in that neighborhood, Chechnya. In the Caucauses, absolutely none of the players come into the situation with clean hands, as the region has long been an ethnic stew and crossroads where alliances constantly shift and yesterday's heroes are now today's villains. Additionally, it must be realized that it is Russia's long term strategic goal to reassert control of the Caucauses and it appears they will do it the same way they conquered the region during Czarist times, bit by bit with a combination of subtle diplomacy and brutal force. Additionally, it would be the height of disaster to let McCain and his neo-con cronies define this fight in the West. We've already seen the results of their hogging the conversation in regards to Iraq and Iran.
Oh yeah, the pipeline!! You got it buddy. I here Halliburton and Blackwater are ready for hire. They'll give those Ruskies a good go, of course if the price is right. Wow, Georgia a staunch ally in the war on terror, 2000 troops in Iraq, wants to join NATO. Where's "Bring it on Bush" now. Just a little too big of fight ain't it!? Oh, but the pipeline, baby!!!!!!
Well, a BAD situation when civilians die. Just ask the Palestinians. But, to South Ossetia. The leader of Georgia thought he had the MILITARY backing of NATO/UK/US for his misadventure in South Ossetia. Well, not so fast. Despite the fact that the Zionist NeoCons who run the Bush administration thought they could continue to poke the Russian bear in the eye with a stick, this time Putin and Medvedev said NO. No one will do anything to Russia about the conflict in Georgia. After all, is WWIII worth a pipeline or false pride???
"WASHINGTON— John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randall Scheunemann, lobbied for the nation of Georgia for four years, including for about a year after he joined the Republican senator's presidential campaign staff in early 2007."
America's Merchants of Death send so much military 'aid' to unstable countries that war or a putsch is inevitable. How long did the Pentagram think their American trained Georgian puppet, Saakashvili, could kick sand in the face of the Russian Bear? Our 'war' president may have another war on his hands and it isn't even Iran yet.
The Multinational Corporations controlling our government seem completely ready to sacrifice America for their global hegemony.
The justification which the President of the Russian Federation used for sending troops into South Ossetia is exactly the same which US President Reagan used for sending troops into Greneda.
This conflagration is a textbook example of what Pat Buchanan has warned against namely that we get involved in a war by being totally hooked up to an itsy-bitsy third rate shit country like Georgia.
The article fails to mention that Obama's position on Georgia is basically identical to McCain's. True, Obama didn't mention NATO, but he did suggest it be referred to the UN Security Council. He also supports Georgia's aspirations for NATO membership and condemns the Russian invasion, yet does not explicitly condemn the Georgian aggression. The article also fails to mention the number of US and Israeli military advisers currently in Georgia or our recently coordinated military exercises with them. Except it does mention that Russians attacked "one base where American military instructors are quartered (no Americans were reported hurt"). What are we instructing the Georgians to do? This could be another of our proxy wars.
Apparently we already had troops in-country 'training' the Georgians. If the CIA is not involved here some way or another, I'd eat my hat. Lotta money to be made, arms and ammunition. Dunno if they grow opium poppies in that part of the world...which will cut back on pocket money for the folks from Langley.
Past time to have a torchlight parade such as the one to Frankenstein's Castle. Our leaders are leading us down a rat hole.
Veteran '66-68
Obama is much smarter than the Republicans posting here, or ANY Republican anywhere. You will appreciate this if you read his book. We owe it to ourselves to find out firsthand what the man thinks without being led by the corporate media and the Limbaugh Operation Chaos brigade.
ezeflyer,
Who are you accusing?
How come there is so much bias and so little coverage of this conflict in western media?
Note that the UN resolution to a ceasefire was defeated by the USA, Georgia and the UK due to the wording "ceasefire by all parties". Russia and S.Ossetia must lay down arms and cease hostilities but no such restriction is placed on Georgia. Sound fair?
Al-Jazeera seems to have one of the few neutral coverages with balanced journalism and quotes from all sides. I have commented on the single article appearing in the Canadian Globe&Mail where the author uses the loaded term "rebels" to describe S.Ossetia compared to Al-Jazeera using the neutral term "separatists". I looked up one Globe commenter's reference in infowar.com and I explained that I had no way of confirming this yet but that it would be one explanation for the almost non-coverage in the West. Immediately after I entered this piece the comment section was closed and my comment deleted.
Here's the extract:
"In addition, the pro-Israeli news source DebkaFile reports that Georgian infantry units were "aided by Israeli military advisors" in capturing the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali earlier today.
Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel's oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat"
Am I being paranoid?
This war is an extension of the US-NATO assault on Yugoslavia and the Serbs to a more forward assault on the Russians in South Ossetia.
I hope everyone filled their car.
BAKU, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Shipments of oil and oil products from two of Georgia's ports have been suspended ..."
So this war is about securing oil. Wars always are. How very uninteresting. But also as always it is ordinary people who do the dying. I'm not a big fan of dividing this world in nationalist entities, but as long as what little international justice we have is based upon this concept, no one can find justification for Russia bombing Georgian towns. And calling Russian soldiers inside Ossetia peacekeepers is just a joke. I'm sure mr Saakashvili is no saint, but at least he was voted for. Let's pray the West stays out of this, but let's not fall into the trap of cheering Russia.
djan, I think you will find that the Russian peacekeepers in Ossetia were there under an agreement signed by both Georgia and Ossetia after the last kerfuffle. There's no saints in all this but let's keep a balance and yes as with most wars the reasons are economic and dirty old oil looks like it is rearing its head again.
Djan has it totally wrong. It was Georgia that entered into South Ossetia and leveled the capital city killing many hundreds that started this all off. The government of Georgia did this because they believe that they are solidly backed up by the US-NATO in this act of aggression, which the Georgian government is.
It is a real shame that so many liberals in the US don't seem to have a clue that China and Russia are the 2 main world targets of US aggression. As a result, these liberals end up on the wrong side entirely in the Pentagon propaganda wars.
"That's kind of like saying after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, that Kuwait and Iraq need to show restraint, or like saying in 1968 [when the Soviet Union invaded Czechoslovakia] ... that the Czechoslovaks should show restraint," the Georgia lobbyist, Randall Scheunemann, said.
Actually GHWBush/Cheney inspired Kuwait to prevent Saddam from paying off the CIA inspired Iraqi war on Iran that provoked Gulf Oil War #1 and it was the CIA inspired Czechoslovak revolt that provoked Russia in 1968. Now it seems that the same players are trying to provoke a war with Russia. I'm sure that the usual Multinational suspects plan to make another 'killing' from all this bloodshed.
Safiyyah,
I'm not trying to be pro Georgia or whatever. I prefer to be neutral to most conflicts, since I don't know shit about them. It's just that I notice that so many pundits on this site, in trying their best to define an anti-government stance, still view the world from a superior American perspective. The world would be a lot better of if the US left it alone. And the same goes for Russia and China. Because, make no mistake, Russia is a lot more powerful than you might think. It has oil and gas and it's not bothered by real democracy. So don't believe Russian peacekeepers in Ossetia are there to keep peace. They are there because Russia wants control over Caspian oil and gas as well.
This war smells bad. There is no accident here. The Georgian attack on separtatists is going to be long in resolving, unless Georgia withdraws soon. Osettia should be encouraged to join and fight if necessary for independence with sticks and stones and anybody who is in a position to help. First, the war must be stopped, whatever the cost to oneupmanship? They deserve the sympathy and support of the entire world and they must not be left to become another tortured 'tribe'.
Where are the diplomats? They in the west accepted the invasion of Yugoslavia and Afghanistan and followed up with recognition of Kosova as if all is inevitable and Yugoslavia is now sorted? The media continue the refrain, for a long time, of how the Serbs must kneel and that Bosnia is working out just and fine. The European Union co-opted to become the 'world community' supports the extra-ordinary peace efforts being made (as with rendition)in the interests of the her citizens by that, and only that, most complex of problems 'The Middle East', by her United States cousin. All rightly speaking english white peoples must row in unison. Canada, Australia and New Zeeland. But if we The Irish ever let the baton fall and lest we The Irish ever forget so flippantly, let me remind citizens from the four corner of the world that nothing is as it appears and that more importantly 'nothing can be different than it is right now' that we join Shakespeare whole heartedly in saying "Nothing is but what is not." but that we reserve the right to fart aloud.
So, lets return to the most obvious the most effective and the most cruel Barbarism that any self respecting 'in the know' political hack must realise if he or she is sane? And that is that when enlightenment was aroused in the Twentieth Century fold, we supported hook, line and sinker the capitalist ideal consequentially and democractic principles and that paragon of for free pioneer enterprise The State of Israel.
If Europe continues this path, I anticipate it much more likely to see civil action than I do in the USA. Europe is a weak link in that regard. Maybe Rummy wrote a memo about it? These is States not just 'states'. We were so wrong to be part of this too.
We need you, the citizen's of the Americas more than we ever did in our short history together. We aspire to your ideals but let me point out this. No country in Europe in the Union would accept your laws being instituted. If they were to be brought in, there would be bigger protests and civil unrest than would be worth talking about. There would be real and genuine gung-ho resistance and terrorism would commence here. It would have significant support. It would not peter out or be easily crushed. There have been plenty enough of 'terrorism offences' here already and many for good reason too. 'La resistance', is one example among many. And if the good citizens of the USA cannot lead and become a force to be emulated now, we in Europe will throw down the gauntlet as likley as not. We just need you to fight and weaken your economy. We can do without the second car too! With or without your help something more civil can easily emerge perhaps?
I hope it does before it becomes too late. And when John McCain becomes worth the effort that it has to be respected that he never surrendered himself to 'the commies' without bringing his brother's in arms home, lets under the banner with the stars and stripes, whatever that symbolises, think of the truth and how it can be distilled in time. Let's think rightly. And lets be honest too. Thanks!
"Suffer little children to come unto me"
I don't think the U.S. has clean hands in Bosnia/Serb conflict, and we don't have clean hands, obviously, in Georgia either. I think Stalin was born in Georgia, and I think we're trying to pull Georgia into NATO. Doesn't anyone find this insane?
Why do we continue to push Russia into a corner? Is it natural resources? Who is going to make the big money and off of what? I'm not pro-Russia, I just believe in the "don't believe your own B.S." philosophy.
Nationalism is dangerous, and there are many other troubles in the former countries over there (i.e. Romania, Moldova, etc.), all playing the same silly games, and for what?
Anyone who trusts any government has got to be smoking some powerful stuff. I don't see how anyone can take sides on this issue with Russia and Georgia, when it's the same old games between the U.S. and Russia, only the U.S. has been extremely agressive in recent years towards Russia.
Russians are proud, well educated, and good people. Yes, their previous governments have been horrible, and I would never want to live under Soviet communism.
But why are we being so agressive in every part of the world, when it seems we are struggling and near a tipping point with our finances? (if one couldn't see why being a peaceful, self sustaining nation would be a good thing).
I can see a time when America is not the super power, and Americans will be pouting, Monday morning quarter backing, and talking about what we could have done. And guess what? Nobody will care. Boring pouting by a country with no vision for the world.
Aw, this is just the birth pangs of a new Caucasus region.
This is the leagacy of the Bush policy of unprovoked invasion. Now that King George has led the way, many will follow. The genie is out of the bottle and it will be a long time before he decides to get back in. This sort of thing (invasion instead of negotiation) will become the norm. Besides, they have got to use up the glut of munitions we have peddled across the globe so more can be made and sold at great profit to the usual suspects.
I hate to say this folks (and forgive my language) but Georgia is big time 'fucked'. By the time this mess is over most-if not all of this country will be back in the Russian sphere. And their is nothing that the US and the west can do to stop it. More importantly it will cause NATO to talk a second look-if not don't invite any former Wasaw pact region membership.
I think we can say that, after this the cold war is officially back on. Thanks Bush for giving the next pres another steaming pile of crap.
What would have happened if, instead of Russian civilians in Ossetia being killed by Georgians, several hundred American citizens living and proselytizing in Iran were suddenly killed by the Quds force at the behest of the President of Iran? The NeoCons would blood-thirstily howl to kill all the Iranians, all of 'em, in straight-up howling-baboon Vengeance. And the American WarMachine would be glad to oblige.
Look what America did in Iraq, without the prior killing of ANY American. Look what it did in Afghanistan, without that government being involved AT ALL in 9/11 or ANY prior killing of Americans. Look what it is doing vis-a-vis Iran, when NOT ONE of the hostages of 28 years ago(!) were killed, nor have any Americans been killed by the Iranian government since. Yet this American Administration, Condi, and McNuts are up in arms when Russia moves to protect its citizens in even a neighboring country. What Arrogant Hypocricy on the part of Rice, McCain and the current American government.
Yet McCain calls for a NEW COLD WAR(!) against Russia, for doing in Ossetia what America has done to God Knows How Many Nations in these last decades. Yup, distract the American Lumpen Class with an external boogie-man, giving no details or objective truth about the situation. Take their minds off the Republican plutocrats stealing this nation blind, selling its citizens out, serving only money and enabling transnational corporations.
Yup, let that old MilitaryIndustrialMachine Run. For free-floating fear, free-floating anger and fre-floating revenge - the Republican trifecta. This is right out of the Hermann Goering playbook.
The Ossetia conflict makes it clear that even the American Bushite Administration knows there is no such thing as the GWOT Global War on Terror. It is really the GWOP and the GWOR, the Gloal War Over Power and the Global War Over Resources.
Not that the Russian government has not perhaps over-reacted, or that it is some paragon of virtue, as certainly it is not. But the jackass Georgian President, who thought it would be 'a good idea' to attack Ossetia during the Olympics, is OUR stooge in Georgia. He should be told to back off his stupid war, against mainly civilians with Russian citizenship. But the Bushites and the NcNuts Gang of Idiots are backing the guy and telling Putin and Russia to get out of the nation that Russia has 'Preemptively Attacked To Defend The Citizens of the Country' (NewsFlash: Pot Calls Kettle Black!).
Actually, the Georgian Incursion is not even preemptive, as Russian citizens were killed and were still being killed, and the Russians are staying within the Ossetia zone to stop this... for now. So the Russian incursion is FAR more justifiable than the American incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq - two blatantly illegal wars that McInsane says are 'winnable'... illegal, immoral, unnecessary, unjust nation-destroying wars are winnable? That is some logic, that is.
Great. Because of the meddling Foreign Intercessions of the Bushite government... entanglings that were warned about by President Washington among others; warnings that are totally ignored by this corpo-fascist new-world-order Bushite/McSame junta... there goes the "peace dividend." Again.
Amd here comes World War III. Again.
I notice that some of the above posters are possessed of the bizarre notion (along with the New York Post and other assorted Rupert Murdoch owned media) that Russia invaded South Ossetia. After an armed conflict where the Ossetians defeated the Georgians, they became an independent territory in 1992. This flagrant aggression by the Georgians is about nothing but oil and gas. They don't even control their Caspian seaports and are about to become extinct, Hence this last gasp attempt to try to get NATO involved.
I don't support Russia's actions nor did I support the US's actions when you exchange Kosovo for South Ossetia. Both cases of imperialists forcing their will. I just thought I'd point out the hypocrisy. It confused fox news for several minutes when they reported that the US was supporting South Ossetia, which wants to join russia. After the voice in their ear told them otherwise they corrected themselves that the US supports the country that wants to hold on to the region, Georgia. In less than a year the us supports one region breaking off from a sovereign state and then supports another remaining a part of a sovereign state. This very unprincipled stand made it confusing for the news corporations to spin it.
The Jakarta Times just reported that the Caspian Sea end of the Georgian pipeline was bombed by Russian warplanes. With both that and the Turkish end down, so much for Caspian Sea oil being shipped to Europe, Asia, and the US for the foreseeable future.
What's up?! The rouble fell like a shot goose back in May. Cheney and his masters took Iraq and Afghanistan (on the backs of the U.S. middle-class taxpayer), lettin'em grow poppy so they won't muhajadin and all, the bases are built, the boys ain't comin' home for a long, long time. There's so many pipelines through this "inistan" and that "inistan", the new customers are India and China right next door. Now Putin and his masters are saying "Bring it On", "Shock and Awe". Will it be dollars or euros?
medusa:
"Since Ossetia of either flavour doesn't have the romance of a Tibet or a Nepal, this war, too, which, by the way, has been going on for decades"
How is Nepal coming into this analogy, can you explain?
It was a nice and intentionally meaningful gesture by the silver medal winner and bronze medal winner, (Women's 10m air-pistol shooting event,) Russia and Georgia, respectively, go out of their way to embrace and kiss in front of the cameras at the Olympics.
It won't stop a war but it does show that individual people can personally transcend politics and that athletes have the choice of following their governments' lead or making personal statements of human solidarity.
"GORKI (Moscow region), August 10 (Itar-Tass) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said at his meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that all necessary decisions must be made on aid to South Ossetia.
He said the Russian government had developed a program of assistance to restoration of housing in South Ossetia."
Amazing! South Ossetia is still burning and already there is a Medvedev plan to rebuild. How did George Bush and his Republicans do with the rebuilding of New Orleans after Katrina?
How can America get a government that looks after the needs of it's people like Russia does?
Well I guess we're going to see. We're over-extended, and, while engaged in our invasion of Iraq, rattling sabers at Russia's invasion of Georgia? It seems to me that we're bent on surrounding Iran and creating a shituation from which "honorable" extrication is impossible. McCain is obviously losing it, but not yet nominated. Is this all about creating so much urgent confusion as to steer the electorate into picking the safest guy, or to serve as a basis for extending a lapsed term of office?
galen said "The Jakarta Times just reported that the Caspian Sea end of the Georgian pipeline was bombed by Russian warplanes. With both that and the Turkish end down, so much for Caspian Sea oil being shipped to Europe, Asia, and the US for the foreseeable future."
The pipline serves Europe, not Asia or the US. The Taliban is hindering the pipeline that could pipe the oil to Pakistan and other parts of Asia. Thats one of the reasons we want to be in Afghanistan for a while.
Don't worry though, Russias pipelines to the North are fine, so Europe will be ok unless Russia gets upset and cuts them off. The Caspian oil can be sent to Russia.
Thats what Kosovo, Afghanistan, Georgia, etc have been all about. It's called the Great Game and it's going to start WW III some day.
BTW, Georgia invaded the autonomous breakaway region of South Ossetia, killing Russian peacekeepers that were there under the 1992 agreement. Some of you are watching too much US news on CNN if you believe Russia started this. Just turn the TV off when it comes to stories like this. You are just being brainwashed like you were over the last NATO war over Kosovo, also part of the Great Game.
As for McCain and Obama and what they had to say, as pointed out McCain likes the NATO option as would be the option to bypass the UN and Russia has veto power over any UN resolution. Obama would not want NATO involved until he takes over. McCain's foreign policy is driven by TLC Kissinger/Shultz, and Obamas is driven by Russian war hawk TLC Brzezinski.
Neither recognize the legitimacy of the break away regions claim to independence like we did Kosovo, despite Georgias ethnic cleaning and treatment of the people that precipitated the clashes in 1992.
The UK Guardian has a photo gallery on this dust-up. One picture shows Putin and Bush at the "Opening Ceremonies" in a "discussion." Bush has the look of a deer caught in the headlights. Putin may have been doing most of the "dissing" and the "cussin'".
Regardless, Putin went back home and took care of business. Drove most of the Georgians/Americans/Israelis back to whence they had come. Set up a little seaport embargo, so no more arms can get into Georgia --- from whereever-- by sea.
Bush --- went to watch the bikini-clad American women compete in Olympic Beach Volleyball.
So, we are,--- where we are.
One more friggin' mess for somebody else to clean up in a few months.
Check Out this brilliant example of US media PROPOGANDA...
The Georgians have offered a cease-fire.(LIE) The response by the Russians has been to step up the attacks,(LIE) continue bombing civilians with strategic air assets (LIE) and then to reject the notion of any international mediation at all(LIE) — it's very difficult for us to understand that," the official said. "It is simply not acceptable that anyone would reject an offer of a cease-fire and a plea for international mediation."
"The violence is endangering regional peace, civilian lives have been lost and others are endangered. We have urged an immediate halt to the violence and a stand-down by all troops. We call for an end to the Russian bombings," (BUT NOT AN END TO THE GEORGIAN BOMBINGS?)a grim Bush told reporters. He did not take any questions.
"I would be very direct with President Putin that these actions will have consequences long term, in terms of our relationship with Russia, and it is in violation of the norms of international conduct,"(LIKE ILLEGALLY INVADING IRAQ WASN'T?) he said in an interview with The Associated Press in Las Vegas.
The U.S. official suggested Russia was looking for a way to draw Georgia into a conflict because Moscow wants to keep Georgia out of NATO. ( THEN WHY DID GEORGIA ATTACK OSSETIA UNPROVOKED?)
McBUSH - WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH RUSSIA...
The russian bear will do what it will in its own back yard. And the people of Georgia will do what they see is in there best interests. Its NONE of our business. However, independence movements like that in Georgia, or Belgium or the Basque region - to name a few - re-inforce the notion that people of similiar race, ideology, religion, culture, and common history stick together and desire to be independent and seperate; and that no supra-governmental organization or cry for one world and human unity will EVER come about. And why not, its the natural way of things.
We have the Georgians trying to keep their country together and stop a significant chunk from breaking off and joining Russia. We have the Russians taking what they view as their people and territory in a "semi-restrained" fashion that shows just how restrained Israel actually is. No, this is not a full-scale Russian invasion. Hopefully it won't be. We have the Ossetians playing the race game, trying to split from Georgia, but they're paying a huge price for their bigotry. We have the whole world complicit by empowering the New Soviets with high oil prices.
So what can we do? The US getting involved in the war directly is stupidity, but indirectly it blunts Russia's power as they have to deal with the crap. Russia's doing the same to us with Iran. This is just payback. Let that continue. Meanwhile pull the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, let them figure things out themselves, then pour the necessary trillion dollars into energy research, mass transit, infrastructure, manufacturing, and urban renewal. Pretty soon, Russia, Iran, and all these other bastard regimes (not that we don't have our own) will be left with a bunch of useless oil and will have to start down the long road to freedom.
Oh, and good one, the guy who blamed the Zionists. That was sweet! Congrats to the rest of you for not blaming the Jews.
Will the good-ol-USA please stand up and return a favor to a dear friend by sending combat troops to help its puppy - Saakashvili? Georgia contributed 3000 troops to invade and occupy an innocent country and in the process kill hundreds of thousands of its citizens. Now that's something!
4The future: Excellent observation!
FV Horn: Solid analysis
PLANTMAN 13: So true, and the same exact monkey-see/monkey-do is also going to tragically find itself repeated in the torture zone.
Not being completely familiar with the region, I looked it up on BBC and found this under their country profile
"In recent years Moscow's key rival, the US has a major interest in security and stability in the country, having invested heavily in an oil pipeline from Azerbaijan via Georgia to Turkey. The Georgian armed forces have been receiving US training and support".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1102477.stm
russian encroachment in georgia achieves numerous objectives...
- it sends a clear message to breakaway soviet satellites that they still are in the russian sphere of influence. don't contemplate participating in the imperial alliance NATO or else...
- it reaffirms putin's role as leader (military leaders always glow) notice we haven't heard much from putin's replacement (dmitry medvedev).
- it reaffirms the internal russian power of russian oil/natural gas interests moguls.
- it directly checks the europeans who are dependant on russia's natural resources. it trivializes the US support for georgia.
- it indirectly lends credibility to russian support for the serbian nationalists on trial in belgium for the atrocities in the baltics. the military aggression delegiitimizes the role of the UN and the ICC (international court).
if there were problems w/ ethnic cleansing in ossetia. the issue should have been addressed in the international court. russia (like the united states and china) frequently violates human rights.
unilateral military action against georgia implies russia also is above the rules (like china in tibet, like the US in iraq). strength/power determine the outcome of geopolitical crises - not diplomacy and the rule of law. superpowers, b/c of their nuclear arsenals and security council membership are exempt from the rules they impose upon the rest of the earthlings.
- the action against georgia gives russian troops valuable experience fighting a real war (more valuable than war exercises). hitler's invasion of poland gave his army an advantage. US/nato troops have 6 years of experience waging war in afghanastan and iraq.
- the russian action was timed to coincide w/ the opening of the beijing olympics further demonstrating the world's inability to respond to imperial aggression around the world. russias actions occurred as world leaders (bush,hu jiantao) were convened in the same location.
- finally a russian presence in georgia moves their military power closer to the real battleground, iran. russia wants a relationship w/ iran (providing nuclear technology).
iran is the domino wedged between the three powers (remember 1984) US/europe - china - russia. whoever controls this region controls the world's energy (a russian response to the goals of the project for a new american century).
a few headlines from this mornings azerbiajan news service today (azerbiajan between georgia and iran on the caspian sea)
http://www.azerbaijannews.net/index.php
.. Azerbaijan Airlines orders four Boeing planes
.. Azerbaijan Halts Oil Exports Via Georgian Ports
.. Chinese president hosts breakfast for leaders from Central Asia and Transcaucasia
the last story was a link from the people's daily online
"Chinese president hosts breakfast for leaders from Central Asia and Transcaucasia
10:00, August 09, 2008….
Calling them old friends of China, Hu extended his warm welcome and thanked them for helping with the Beijing Olympics.
These countries are all traditional friends of China, and have been building mutual political trust and scored remarkable results in the cooperation in security, humanitarianism, economy and trade, and energy, Hu said.
"China values the traditional friendship with the five countries and is ready to raise bilateral relations to higher levels," the Chinese president said."
russia's (gazproms) actions just moved us one step closer to armageddon (the final battle of the energy war waged by national armies on behalf of bp, gazprom, exxon-mobil, shell)...
...peace...
apologies, i meant to say balkans - not baltic's - my edit function isn't working.
...peace...
No mention of the 1000 U.S. Marines who've been 'training' Georgian troops these past few months. Georgia clearly thought the U.S. and NATO will back them in their little imperial trot. The best resolution in this conflict would be for Russian troops to enter Tbilisi and put the squeeze on Saakashvili.
The Times actually has a fairly well balanced article on this for a change:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/weekinreview/10traub.html
instead of parroting the Administration's lies.
Hey if independence is good enogh for Kosovo then it's good enough for South Ossetia.
iowablackbird
Russian encroachment in Georgia? Do you work for Rupert Murdoch? THE GEORGIANS ATTACKED SOUTH OSSETIA, a territory they ceded autonomy in 1992. They have since got their asses kicked and are demanding a ceasefire. All the U.S. special ops guys in Tbilisi can now flee elsewhere and contemplate another miserable failure ordered by Little Caligula (currently in Beijing with an ironclad alibi). What a turd.
People need to read Alexander Cockburn in Counter Punch as well another article in their take on this mess. Cockburn puts it just like it is. Moscow is giving the USA and its Western backers "a well deserved finger." I may not have the exact words, but Cockburn is right on the mark as usual. He kicks right wing booty!
Forget about telling any pollster you want to vote for Barak Dukakis, the war monger after the primaries and caucuses are over candidate. With just 15 to 20 per cent in polls showing saying they're for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader, Obama might just do the right thing, because might have to.