Well, rather than a Rovian tactic, it could have been intended as a satire that just flew over our heads.

After all, a Michael Kinsley humorous quote ended up in the book "The Reagan Diaries" as an actual entry, thanks to the lazy research of the book's author and was republished all over the Internet as genuine.

"May 17, 1986. A moment I've been dreading. George brought his ne'er-do-well son around this morning and asked me to find the kid a job. Not the political one who lives in Florida. The one who hangs around here all the time looking shiftless. This so-called kid is already almost 40 and has never had a real job. Maybe I'll call Kinsley over at The New Republic and see if they'll hire him as a contributing editor or something. That looks like easy work."
-- http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kinsley.htm

Kinsley wasn't advancing any 'Rovian agenda' -- just having some fun.

It's also possible that there is a David Jenkins and a True Bible Society, but they don't have a website or do any business on the Internet -- that would explain why they aren't listed in the search engines.

I didn't blink twice when I first read the article because it so easily could be true and, in fact, shared it with an interested forum. But the only references I still find to the group and the person is in this article. And you're right -- it is being passed around like a virus, so it creates the appearance of legitimacy by showing up a lot in the search engines. It winds up cross-referencing itself.

I don't like the uneasy feeling that this may be a Rovian tactic -- tell a lie and hope it gets repeated often enough to become The Truth. I don't like it when the conservatives do that and I wouldn't like to see 'our side' taking up the tactic.

Opinionated [August 11th, 2008 3:10 pm] I did some quick checking -- couldn't find a 'David' Jenkins, but there is a Jerry B. Jenkins who co-authored the Left Behind books with Tim LaHaye, and there is an International Bible Society in Colorado Springs, CO, so this could be who Dreyfuss is referring to and the names were garbled. OTOH, it could be a hoax perpetrated by either the left or right, since the Christopublicans hate McCain as much as progressives.

Whatever it is, Robert Dreyfuss is a serious writer with a good reputation, so I can't see him just making this up, and CD certainly isn't to blame for rerunning a Nation article -- this story is all over the progressive blogs.

RSJ:
I would, save that links just lead to The Nation, or his Amazon book sales page. Considering the conversation this provokes, I think it only fair it be labeled fact or fiction, or it really throws the credibility of Common Dreams into question.

AndChomskyMakesThree [August 10th, 2008 11:32 pm], I'm not a Christian of the organized religion sort, although I was raised one, but I've felt it my duty as an agnostic to read some of what these Christopublicans spout as the Word of the Lawd. Biblical scholars across the board, except those at Oral Roberts University, find no reference to the 'Antichrist' anywhere in the Bible save in the Book of Revelation and believe John of Patmos was talking about Nero or one of the Roman Caesars. The Rapture is not even mentioned in the Bible; that seems to be an invention of the crackpot Bishop Ussher in the 17th century and taken up by American 'end-timers' in the 19th. Ussher also believed the world was created on October 23, 4004 BC by the Julian calendar, but I don't know if that was Greenwich Mean Time. One can only wonder if there was a Halloween that year.

At Prophecies About the New Millennium, written in 1998, it states:

"2000: Hal Lindsey currently does not make specific predictions about the end of the world. In his book The Late Great Planet Earth he did predict the battle of Armageddon in 2000 CE and the second coming of Christ in 2007 CE."
-- http://www.greatdreams.com/proph.htm

They're a little off, I'd say.

protester [August 11th, 2008 8:10 am], come on -- everybody knows the Whore of Babylon is either Judith Miller or Miley Cyrus! ;) And don't be so hard on Hillary -- you should learn to appreciate older women; they have vast amounts of experience that younger women just don't have the time to gain and many more interesting curves to explore, both physically and mentally.

Opinionated [August 11th, 2008 8:58 am], take it up with the article's author, Robert Dreyfuss.

RSJ --

Sorry, I mistyped in my note but not in my searches. I have not turned up any references to a "True Bible Society" or a theologian DAVID Jenkins, except for a liberal Anglican priest. I've asked others to search: nada. The only reference to them on the web seems to be in this "article."

There is satire and then there is telling lies. I'd like to know which this author was attempting. The religious extremists are crazy enough. People don't need to start making up stories about them.

OK, the Antichrist might have been in the Keating scandal, but i think he wouldn't have crashed his airplane so many times. You'd think he'd also be able to tell the difference between al-Qaeda and iran. Agreed about the charisma bit. If an antichrist is supposed to lead an armagedon war against isreal, i'd look elsewhere, than in american politics.

But seriously, i don't think it's bad CD put this up. Maybe it shows some sign of hope and split amongst the righties. With this, Paul and Barr, maybe we got a little mini Ross Perot thing going. We can only hope. I heard dobson was warming back up to him, i doubt hagee will though.

Ya, right! Can any of you biblical scholars tell me who the Whore of Babylon is? Where does she hang out? Does she have a website? I hope it's Paris Hilton. McCain astutely noticed a connection between Obama and Paris. It can't be Hillary; she couldn't make a nickle as a whore.

Ya, right. Can any of you biblical scholars tell me who the Whore of Babylon is? Where does she hang out? Does she have a website? I hope it's Paris Hilton. McCain astutely noticed a connection between Obama and Paris. It can't be Hillary; she couldn't make a nickle as a whore.

Didn't the so-called Christian prophecies indicate that the Anti-Christ will intelligent and charismatic and that he will easily unite the world under his sole leadership. McCain is obviously too feeble, too forgetful and too ignorant to accomplish such a tremendous feat. Amd Obama is a phony.

Of course, I don't believe in Christ, God or the devil, much less an Anti-Christ.

I actually read this several times to figure out whether or not it was a joke. I'm not a believer myself, but I do at least know that no serious Biblical scholar takes Biblical "prophecy" literally anymore, as no serious Biblical scholar eschews the historical-critical method like "the respected True Bible Society" apparently does. Did Dreyfuss even look at Jenkins' curriculum vitae? I'd really like to see the academic credentials that make David Jenkins a "leading Biblical scholar." Where exactly did he study? What are his degrees in? Who are the "scholars of the Book of Revelation," who believe that "the Antichrist will try to rebuild the ancient city of Babylon in order to use it as a springboard for an international effort at world domination"? That sure doesn't sound like real Biblical scholarship to me. I'm all for anything that makes McCain looks worse, but Dreyfuss shouldn't have taken Jenkins' word that he's a Bible scholar.

geeeeee whizzzz..with an article like this, those that 'VOTE THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS' may confuse themselves.
hahhhaa

wild

KEM PATRICK [August 10th, 2008 4:11 am], you had me going, but Don and Miftin are right. Not only was Fred Rogers NOT a Navy SEAL, he also wasn't a Marine sniper with 150 kills in Nam, nor an Army Ranger on Omaha Beach.

Speaking of Capt. Kangaroo as we weren't, actor Lee Marvin supposedly said that Bob Keeshan (the Capt.) was a Marine and acted bravely on Iwo Jima, winning the Navy Cross. This is bogus as well. Capt. Kangaroo was a Marine in WWII, but never in combat, not even as a buck private.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-marvin-keeshan.htm

You can also scrap those stories that Maj. Soupy Sales tested the first US jet aircraft, Sgt. Bob Denver received the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service in the Korean War, Professor Irwin Corey was part of the Manhattan Project that created the first atomic bomb, and Seaman Hugh "Beave's Dad" Beaumont served five years in the brig for strangling a cardsharp with his bare hands after a poker game on the USS Enterprise.

Although Chuck "Gong Show" Barris may have been a secret CIA assassin! ;)

Opinionated [August 10th, 2008 9:42 am], you couldn't find anything because his name is DAVID Jenkins, not 'Derek.'

doodledoo [August 10th, 2008 12:15 pm] wrote: Reporter: What will you say sir, if upon leaving this vale of tears and arriving at the pearly gates you find yourself facing a long table behind which sit the 12 apostles in judgment of your activities and pronouncements while here on earth?

As some atheist comedian of the past once answered: "You know what a liar I've been my entire life -- of course I didn't mean any of it!"

~Miftin~ I thank you for your correction, I checked it out and I was spreading a false rumor about Mr. Rogers. But you really should stay on topic, the Boss is watching.

You the boss here ~Don the engineer~? Hey everyone, don't talk about Santa or Elvis or get into any fun conversations with anyone, or ~Don The Boss~ here will shut you up.

Okay boss, I'll stay on topic, ___"Fuck you"___ and I say Mr. Rogers was a Navy seal Mr. Know it all boss.

No one here has suspected H L Mencken of being the AntiChrist and if his spirit is reading CD now, it's probably pretty chopfallen. He would have loved the title.

H L, as editor of the Baltimore Sun during much of the first half of the 20th century, never tired of ragging middle class mores and organized religion. He was probably the country's best known atheists. One day at a press conference:

Reporter: What will you say sir, if upon leaving this vale of tears and arriving at the pearly gates you find yourself facing a long table behind which sit the 12 apostles in judgment of your activities and pronouncements while here on earth?

Mencken: I will say 'Gentlemen, I was wrong'.

Biblical scholars and Clorado Springs is an oxymoron! Colorado Springs happens to be the HQ of the evangelical fundamentalits and who have already infiltrated their neighbor the Air Force Academy. We can thank God or good luck or both that the Chief of the JCS is an Admiral not an Air Force general.

Fred Rogers was a former Presbyterian minister. My family knew and worked with him. He was the same in real life as on TV.

Ummm... I can't find a True Bible Society listed on the web, nor a Dominionist theologian named Derek Jenkins.

Is there a way to check these references? Was the author attempting parody but missed the mark?

Hey KEM,
Try to stay on subject.
And if you go to Snopes.com: Mr. Rogers was NOT a tatooed ex Navy Seal.
That is an urban legend.

JH: It's a good question, but all one can do is guess. Probably, they don't really believe, and thus would vote for McCain because he's a republican. End of story. If there can be several hundred folks in Israel now trying to get them to take more land from their neighbors and not give any back so the original boundaries of judea (sp?) can be fulfilled to start their end times (And they all already own their own guns despite expecting to be raptured before it all starts, ha!) one must expect at least some percentage would know and vote for it anyway.

My suspicion is that those who "believe" will kill each other and the rest of us who can manage to stay out of it, and who can survive their poisoning of the planet in the process, will outlaw superstition in all its forms, and then we'll have 1000 years of peace.

The problem is people who believe in something that has little to not a shread of basis in reality, who are willing to act on their beliefs. These are the folks who must be stopped. Hopefully with reason, but if not, then as a gun toting liberal who's not going to ask how high when they say to jump, make sure you have practiced enough "gun control" to be able to hit what you aim at. Then for god's sake, AIM!
(Sorry all, I couldn't resist the puns there at the end).

Hi ~RSJ`, did you know our meek and oh so nicey nicey "Mr. Rogers" was a heavily tatooed ex Navy Seal and a true kick ass "bad ass"?

I was sure that tetti-tatti would be the first to post a comment on this article, but I was wrong - tetti was number two.

The only clarification I want is: Does this mean the Christian Fundamentalists are more likely or less likely to go out and vote for him? Would they vote the anti-christ to hasten their end of days, or would they vote on the side of righteousness?

The business of labeling any politician as the antichrist is just foolish. I suppose labeling McCain the antichrist is in response to those who labeled Obama the antichrist (see, for example, www.anti-christ.com) The Bible itself doesn't have a whole lot to say about an antichrist -- just a few passages in two of the epistles of John. Many political figures have been called the antichrist, going back to the time of Nero. Traditionally, the term "antichrist" was attributed to any person, or group of people, whose actions were evil (i.e., in opposition to religious teachings), rather than a supernatural being. In modern times, the antichrist appears to be viewed as an incarnation of Satan.

The bottom line: some people are just evil, and given enough power/cooperation, they can commit horrible atrocities.

Relax, everybody -- my husband is the Antichrist.

John McCain is a victim of war and suffers from PTSD. He is not a good candidate for President.

But he is not the antichrist.

LOL, Mordechai Shiblikov [August 8th, 2008 3:05 pm], and you have deposited the dart in the bull's-eye. I'm surprised any of the smart posters here at CD ever took any of this 'Antichrist' nonsense seriously.

Look at this through the cynical Rovian political prism: The only way the GOP is going to get some of the wingnut Fundies to vote for McNasty is to advertise him as the Antichrist who will hasten the End Times and The Rapture so that all of the rigid, lying, intolerant, war-like Good Little Believers from Messiah College and Regent University will be scooped up by the Republican Wall Street Jay-zus while the rest of us liberal peace-loving humanists and secular ethicists live in a hell on earth, as if it isn't that already (and thank you, Mr. Boosh and Mr. Cheney.)

Monica Goodling will be handing out jobs in the Republican Heaven and Jerry Falwell will be crucifying gays upside-down while John Hagee assigns black slaves to all of the rich folks and Pat Robertson controls the weather on earth. And, if you were unemployed poor white trash living in a beat-up trailer on earth, in Republican Heaven, you'll get a brand-new double-wide and a minimum wage job! (Minimum wage is $2.00 an hour in God Bucks, equivalent to about 27 cents US.) There you'll work away eternity for the Wal-Mart of Yah-Way, happy in your Blue Vested Paradise and Blissful Ignorance as you'll know your place and stay there, pissant peasant, until Leona Helmsley needs you to pick up after her dog.

Brian Brademeyer [August 8th, 2008 5:12 pm], the '666' are those plastic refrigerator-magnet numbers and they are hidden inside McCain's cheek.

Ephraim [August 8th, 2008 5:24 pm], good points.

Galen [August 8th, 2008 5:26 pm], I've read some scholars have actually revised the number -- it's really '616' instead of '666.' Another mistranslation, apparently, like that old joke about the Catholic priest exclaiming after rereading some old texts,"Oh, no, it said CELEBRATE, CELEBRATE!"

Siouxrose [August 8th, 2008 6:01 pm], would that be the 'Witness Projection Program'? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) ;) Seriously, as to the Nicaean Council: To think that the Book of Revelation was kept in the modern New Testament Bible by the vote of one bishop and all of the subsequent trouble it's caused. I'm always surprised at the number of so-called Christians who think the Bible was written by the finger of God who know nothing about the expunged Gnostic Gospels, the Essene's Teacher of Righteousness whose life and teachings closely parallel that of Jesus' later years, nor the Nicaean Council of 325 AD.

"Bishop Eusebius, a scholar of early Christian writings found at Caesarea and Jerusalem and attendee of the First Council of Nicaea, published a comprehensive history of the Christian Church. In this history, he also critiqued many books and writings circulating in the Christian communities at the time in an attempt to form some sort common library. The books he reviewed were broken down into three categories: a) accepted (the four gospels, the Book of Acts, and the Pauline epistles), b) highly likely (First John, First Peter), and c) questionable (Second John, Third John, Second Peter, Gospel of James, Epistle of Jude, the Book of Revelation, and others). He was all too aware of other church leaders views concerning Revelations with its imagery of war being at variance with Christ's message of love and peace. He finally came down to 18 books that he believed should become official Christian scripture." [...]
"Forty years later, a final list of 27 New Testament books was canonized by the Christian Church. This official list excluded many popular books either because they were written too late or they weren't felt to have been orthodox."
-- Wikipedia, "Banned from the Bible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_from_the_Bible

MiMiCcS [August 8th, 2008 7:20 pm], it's Tim LaHaye and the Left Behind Series and, excuse me, but you're out of your freakin' gourd.

LOL, Little Brother [August 8th, 2008 7:44 pm], rules out Dennis Miller, but not Bill O'Reilly!

shadowdancer [August 8th, 2008 10:56 pm], Jesus also said the kingdom of God is within you, and you could worship either Mammon (money and the world) or God, but not both. Guess what most 'Christian-Americans' actually worship when you trim away the pious persiflage? Hint: Hagee didn't build his church on prayers.

KEM PATRICK [August 9th, 2008 12:11 am], Kem, I've heard every name on your list referred to as the Antichrist except Hemingway -- Jebas, Papa Ernie was the Antichrist? BTW, you missed Elvis Presley and Capt. Kangaroo. Elvis for introducing teenagers to the 'wanton lusts of the jungle beast' and the Captain for indoctrinating young minds with leftist, socialist muck like 'share with others' and 'help your neighbor in need' and, also, for not being a real military captain. (And how about his enviro-terrorist sidekick Mr. Green Jeans?) I think, under those rules, Mr. Rogers would qualify as the Antichrist, as well. "Won't you be mine -- in HELL!"

mistersensible [August 9th, 2008 8:22 am], you have spoken rare truth: "Wow, McCain has charm?" That 'charm' escaped me as well -- I think he's downright creepy, like Col. Kurtz in 'Apocalypse Now.'

There are no Biblical scholars in Colorado Springs. If you want Biblical scholars, go to the University of Chicago or DePaul University. Go out to Oregon State University, and ask Dr. Marcus J. Borg, the Hundere Distinguished Professor of Religion and Culture in the Philosophy Department whether he thinks John McCain is the anti-Christ.

Don-

You have a point. They can be a downright nihilistic bunch.

As far as Wordpress goes, I've had problems with throughout the year or so I've been posting here. Sometimes it zaps my posts too. It's just an internet quirk I think. No conspiracy is afoot, aside from computer gremlins. :) My advice is to copy and paste your comments before clicking "post" so if it doesn't go throught, you can try it again.

I have the same problem when I blog elsewhere. Tbere have been a number of times when I wrote a really good blog only for it to get lost when I tried to post it. "Unexpected Errors." Ugh.

Copy, paste, and save. Always.

Hey thegreatrocky hill,
the problem is that the religious right WOULD vote for him because they want their "end times" to start.

Kind of makes you wonder if any of them have ever stopped to think:
...hey if I vote for McCain, and he's the antichrist, what side does that put me on?!!! Oh Horror of HORRORS!

:-)

I realize the tongue in cheek nature of The Nation printing this article but wouldn't it have been better off in The Onion, where it would have been funnier and more interesting?

Really, The Nation, this is what you're reporting on? What next a piece on Unicorn's for Guns- a Republican fringe group searching for unicorns and their right to bear arms?

Is it just possible that the antiChrist is not a single person but perhaps a whole group of people brought together to pursue the one objective of creating the 'end times.' Looks like there is a group who are preparing to begin the New World when the rest of us have been blasted to heck and gone. Hmmmmm. With only the ruling elite left how long will it be before they begin wrangling among themselves for top dog positions. A few will have to be at the bottom of the heap to become the serfs and slaves so that they can maintain their hallowed positions. And, then what? More war?

~Word Press is watching here ~Sue~ and they're a damn virus.

JERRY: Many of us have experienced quirks at time in submitting comments. I've occasionally gotten the message to slow down, that I am posting comments too quickly. Sometimes sites are closed off and I have to sign off on one screen name, sign on another to access that discussion; and sometimes important material that I relate disappears. Usually it just shows up later, after it has successfully "awaited moderation." I presume it's techno stuff, although there ARE watchers.

I twice attempted to post a comment to second barely human's 10:56 a.m. injunction to look in the mirror to find the antichrist by recommending Robert Jensen's brilliant Dissident Voice article on a "prophetic" approach which blames a "people" and not just their "leaders" for the sins of the world. Either I or DV must be a Common Dreams antichrist, because others have since posted on this thread. This may be yet another wasted effort.

~Thegreatrockyhill~ While I was typing and editing, your post arrived and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the same on this issue.

Ya Know, I and some others here have said this is a sensless article, but actually it's an excellent article well written by an excellent investigative reporter.

These Bible studying guys DO INDEED have a great deal of influence over the Evangilicals, rattlesnake snake charmer "Christians" and brain dead church goers in general, and what they report about McCain will have a major impact upon the final results of the election.

Of course that will help with the attempts to keep a Republican out of the White House again which suits me. I just wish we had a better choice for a viable opponent, like John Edwards or Kucinich, who obviously both like good lookin blonds and that's a positive sign of maturity and good judgment. Billy seemed to prefer brunettes and he got his dumb-ass impeached.

The Bible "studiers" of course display their political ignorance, by stating that McCain wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years and Obama wants out of Iraq and therefore Obama can't be the Antichrist. They obviously forgot that the Antichrist will be the great deciever.

Obama wants out of Iraq? Really? How about the rest of the mid-east, Afganastan, etc? I think these brain damaged Bible "studiers" are as warped and ignorant as most of the Bible thumping preachers. Every year they look for a new Anti-christ, because it's profitable to do so.

I don't know why they ever let Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt off their hooks. And Santa Claus COCO? No way, not St. Nick. I'm joking there of course, but the article is not a joke and I'm glad Common Dreams posted it.

The article isn't as ridiculous as people think because it actually imo bodes well for a McCain loss. If the Christian Fundies think McCain's the Antichrist, they're not gonna vote for him. And where do The Republicans get so much of their strength from? The Bible Beaters of course. So, if their leery of McCain, that's a good sign.

As much as I take Obama to task, I'd rather have him than McCain.

However yes, the whole Antichrist thing is a shell game or scavenger hunt. I used to be interested in this stuff when I was younger, until I realized that no one could pin the tail on the donkey, because they kept changing the donkey!!! Plus, the people pushing the idea seemed to be holy rollers bent on making money (books, tapes, etc.).

Hey, the Antichrist makes for good villainy and heavy metal lyrical grist too. Maybe that's why it all intrigued me.

Ok, it still does a little. :D

The Anti-Christ owns Diebold.

"The analysis was conducted by the *respected* True Bible Society..."

Uhhhhh...

unless you're a vampire................

The Antichrist is in every mirror.

McCain can't be the Antichrist! Bush is the Antichrist! There can't be two of them in this world can there????? I am not up on biblical myth because I am not a Christian! But, it explains the last 7 1/2 years perfectly!

ALTERNET REFUGEE

welcome to the 'real' world..............

MORDECHAI SHIBLIKOV

i've found out who ted nugent is (i really didn't know!!). so if you think he's the antichrist check these guys out...........keep your eye on the drummer:

http://www.eyeenvision.com/litterbox/scratch.html

Hi everybody, I'm new here and I just want you all to know I enjoyed reading your comments on this ridiculous story. UN-common dreams, you had me nearly shooting coffee out my nose, I was laughing so hard.

All these wonderful candidates for the antichrist! Still, my favorite is that tree-climbing Jeep in "The Gods Must be Crazy."

I'm looking forward to reading the articles and participating in the discussions on CD when I have more time but for now, armageddon outa here. See you later.

Well, now all you reincarnated, organic boil eaters, born under the sign of the anti-christ, booby whiner,

I say, 'Heal! Yes! Heal!Thy inner torment and pain... With good ole American john dean sausage. Doom and Gloom?! Try some eggs from China with that sausage. Don't worry about being organic. Didn't reincarnation come from China? Heh, Heh.

Luv, Your preznut,
Bush (Laura and Pelosi)

Such a menage et toi! Film at 11:00, after the kiddies are in bed with their favorite uncle, Guess who?!?

McCain the Antichrist? Isn't that Cheney's job?

longingforsanity says: "And all along I thought Dick Cheney was the antiChrist controlling Babylon. But I read the article with an open mind, and yes, I mistakenly thought the antiChrist would be transparently evil; McCain's "charm" is more in line with prophecy. "

Wow, McCain has charm? That one must've slipped by me while I was busy looking for an honest presidential candidate. I thought maybe he had early-stage Alzheimers Disease.

The END of DAYS refers to
The End of
The BU__! SH__!

"Kish is for anticheirst, and the free of my hand to him!" (Joyce, 'Finnegans Wake')

Humans as ants.

Are we all too different?

We poison ants with sugar bait, bring them in. Give them what they want to kill them. Humans are the same. T.V., Internet, etc. Even those who think they are above it, the 'smarter ones' as they think, and maybe they are. still part of the group, the organism. Can they escape? No, It encompasses us all; clothes, house, education, car, it takes you over. Ignorance reigns supreme. Are the majority of humans ignorant or just easily manipulated, either way does it make a difference. We fight never ending wars until the next one, for so called freedom and peace. So many theories in socialism but so little action. Will the people ever rise up ? Will they ever realize? Can we over come? Will the masses always be ignorant and understand they are being played like a fiddle; is there hope. We live as slaves working for the master, playing the so called debt of what we stand against.

What are our options, Dem's, or Repubs, same shit different party. Slaves till the end. Patriotism has us lost in strait jackets when we should be rising up against oppression. The people need to unite; Liberal Libertarianism is the only way to go. We need to fight for us the people; retake our democracy, city by city, state by state. Our, yes our, money is being thrown away, given to corrupt people. Lets stop the madness. No more taxes to the wretched filth. They are all corrupt. We need to stand up together, no parties. We need to be sick of getting raped!!! Revolution is the only way. Revolution!!! Wars are started to make money. They make money off of us, yes us, that's you, every chance they get.

The problem is that we are all part of the machine. We are all part of the machine. Your job, your life is a part of it. You know it, you may even like it, you might not even know. You are being paid to make money for others. This is how most of up lead our lives, working to make money for others. In you job, paying off your house, your car, your loan, etc. all making money for others. Most of us will make money for others our whole life. Aren't you sick of it? Isn't it enough? When will you stand up? Now is the time!!! Make a stand!!! Your whole life for what? You live, you work for them, you die. Now is the time!

Our phones are all bugged, our movements are watched. This is not a democracy, they have taken over. Will you wait until you are in prison without a court hearing? This is no longer our country. They have burned our Constitution.

What to do is your next question, mine too. How about demanding with you co-workers the pay you deserve! How about demanding from the government not to pay for a war you don't want! Or for debts you didn't make! Vote them all out!!!
vote for you friend, or the person you know. Not for the one who just got $100,000 from the oil industry, or for the one who just got $200,00 to make the people have diabetes, and Asama. Stand up, start a change. Lets not spend more than we have, so we can stop being controlled by the banks. Most of us are with you, lets stand together, all off up. Not for Republicans or Democrats, not for Obama, or McCain's, but for us, the people. FUCK THEM!!! Let us, the people take our lives back! Start a local group. Take over the city council. Small steps to a big change. No more kings. Tell the feds you are no longer a part of the union. Lets start our own country without them. Lets start real freedom. And lets start it now!!!

REBEL FARMER

yeah, we gotta keep our sense of humour..............

PLANTMAN

thanks for the info..........but i still wonder why they are in the vatican. curiouser and curiouser...............

KEM PATRICK

you forgot santa claus on your list...............

btw you can make a good anagram out of ANTICHRIST - CART IN SHIT.

I don't look to Rashi to tell me how to vote so using the bible for the same purpose makes just as little sense.

Here's a nifty idea: let's decide who to vote for in the 21st Century based on the observations of 1st Century Roman dominated, Hellenized, Israelites.

Nothing exists.

Hi ~REB~ Yeah, I have my off days.

Oh, The Bush's are still kickin. Is junior smart enough? Nah, it ain't him either, and if his daddy was smart, he'd had junior stay in school til he got a 'C' average and he'd still be in school. So Senior don't fit the MOI either. Gotta keep lookin. Maybe Putin?

Who cares about the Anti-Christ? The Great Harlot gets better box office.

Hi KEM! Glad to see you got your sense of humor back!

This has really been fun. Some really great posts. I needed the laughs.

And thanks go to Dreyfus for reporting a silly news report that got the ball rolling.

We've had lots of Anti-Christ's and every darn time it turned out to be bogus. They all died. There was Hitler of course, JFK, FDR, MKL, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Carson and John Lennon all made the list, along with Ghandi and Ernest Hemmingway. Then we must not forget Stalin, Churchill, every pope that ever lived and Bush Sr, Jr, and Ronald Reagon. Nope, all dead ends so far and McCain is stupid, it can't be him.

Obama??? well, what's his license plate number? It better not be (B. O. 666) ___ LOL

This drivel is the 21st century reenactment of the mediaeval classical,theological,argument,"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?

Muslim or Animist Mongolian nomadic herders agree with Christian Amish or Mennonites who in turn agree with Animist members of American or Canadian First Nations on the universal truths and applicability of the Sermon on the Mount.

Live a Life based on what's important ; not something that you expect to find in the national enquirer ( even spell-check agreed on small case)

I'm not into the dogma, but I'm also not above using it against them.
I was waiting until closer to September to bring this up to people myself, having read some of the late great planet earth stuff pushed on me by a former religious zealot "friend".

They also believe that the antichrist will have miraculously survived a lethal head wound. May I remind everyone that back when those biblical prophesies were made, they had no idea of what melanoma was, but it was certainly lethal in their day. They also didn't have words to describe nuclear war, but they could see the vision of skin literally melting off of bone. Hmmm sounds neutron bomb-ish to me, and the players are right too. Gog & Magog are the historical lands of Iran/Persia and Russia who are closely allied in these waning years of the first generation who saw the nation of Israel restored. Freaky, isn't it?

Isn't EVERY sketchy leader pegged as the Antichrist?

They're ALL the Antichrist.

Hell, why does the Antichrist even have to be a single person?

Why can't it be a concept? Or a thing? Or things?

WAR is the Antichrist.

INTOLERANCE is the Antichrist.

POVERTY is the Antichrist.

INEQUALITY is the Antichrist.

IMPERIALISM is the Antichrist.

POLLUTION is the Antichrist.

Those who help perpetuate these things are merely human agents of the Antichrist.

I'm reminded of late comic book creator Jack Kirby and his concept, The Anti-Life Equation which is sought after by master villian Darkseid. Subsequent writers have tried to define it.

You can read about it here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-life_equation

Hey Everyone,

Cindy Sheehan's name will be on the ballot to run against Nancy Pelosi! Cindy was able to gather enough signatures to get on the ballot. However, she still needs to campaign in other areas and needs volunteers and donations if you can afford it. Last week I sent her a check for $200 towards my $2,300. Today is one giant step towards booting one of the crookedest and worst politicians in recent memory out of office and replacing her with someone who is honest, has a clear vision, and will fight to restore integrity and the Constitution. YAY!!!!!!!!! Go Cindy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mystery Babylon is not necessarily Babylon of old otherwise Mystery Babylon would not be a Mystery. The Book of Revelation lists many Beast Kingdoms or Nations. Mystery Babylon fornicates with the Kings of the Earth. This could possibly be through the U.N.?

Jesus stated his Father's Kingdom was not of the world of man, nor worldly things that can include man's worldly political, religious, business, & educational philosophies. This could possibly mean the world of man is anti-christ?

Jesus did not give any indication he came to start a new religion. He didn't seem at all pleased with the religious factions of Israel.
Jesus was turned into religion in the first large way through the Catholic Church who set up the Church/State. Instead of murdering, stealing, & torturing in the name of Caesar they now did these things in Jesus's name.

His warning of false teachers & the workers of inquity.

The Protestants would do the same as would many other factions of the religion called Christianity as they would meld their politics into religion becoming the same religious Pharisees of time past even in this day.

A part of Mystery Babylon besides it's political system that will become global is it's economic system that will become global, as well it's religious political pharisee system of organized corporate religion.

It is quite possible the Hagee types are worshipping the Beast & the Image of the Beast thinking this Beast,(Mystery Babylon) is doing God's work when it is actually doing the Devil's work? All a Nation has to be is a Beast Kingdom & if the people of that Nation love that Nation in their hearts then they are quite possibily worshipping the Beast & the Image of the Beast because they never fully turned away from the world of man to the Kingdom that is not of the world of man.

If the USA is only a Beast Kingdom those that love the USA in their hearts & glorify their Nation then it is possible they are worshipping the Beast & the Image of the Beast?

Always, and ever always the duped citizens of the US mistake the candidates for the movement and social class for which "it" stands. As choices of the media and campaign selection of the major Vampire parties of the US, Obama and McCain are much less Anti Christs and more so the candidates for implementing the will of the Vampires. This is why foreign policy is so important a campaign issue. The chief Vampire must be willing to continue the empire for the blood of exploitation investments by the moneyed classes. Third world nations must bow down and send their resource tributes at low cost and human sacrifices in third world countries must be made to impress upon the others the nature of the deadly threats of destruction that the US holds against the entire world. US bases must continue to abuse the local populations and be a threat to the local governments. The US fleets must patrol the seas armed with cruise missiles to threaten the shipping of rebellious nations such as Iran and Venezuela.

The last American Vampire race to adopt these practices were the Aztecs, who ran out of victims to exploit, and then their civilization collapsed, despite all the human hearts that were ripped out. The US resource base of the world is running out of time and the world resource base is degrading, and the poor resource and overseas manufacturing billionaires in the US are feeling the pinch on their investments. Hence the level of violence necessary to feed the Vampire nation is periodically increased, and the search for ever more weakened victims that can be exploited for free blood and resource extraction. The shop dummy called a president they use to sell the products of military hardware and imperialism is the shiny resplendent high priest of blood sacrifice.

coco:
Actually, the scrolls have never been in "prison." The logistics of translating the texts hidden on crumbling 2000+ yr. old animal hides and papyrus (in worse shape then the hides) has been monumental and the pronouncements of scholarly whack jobs has not helped. Alot of good stuff is coming out about the scroll's contents, but you have to wade through some pretty technical publications to get at the jist. Check out "The Meaning Of The Dead Sea Scrolls"...I don't remember the two author's names but I'm sure you can find it; I did.
BUT...I agree the crap in the bible is pure fantasy. There is no such thing as an "anti-christ!" The first christians believed Yeshua ben Yusef was coming back within their lifetimes and the anti-you-know-who was the Roman Impirator (emperor). Babylon rebuilt was Rome and the final battle would see yawheh coming down from the clouds to fight the Romans and establish the Jews in their place as rulers of the world. Now, when science makes a prediction and it ends up to be wrong, we trash that hypothesis and return to the drawing board. Religion, on the other hand, faced with erronious prophecy (a prediction similar to scientific hypothsis), simply re-interpret the prediction...never acknowledging they got it totally wrong. Obviously, we just didn't understand the unfathomable mind of god and when "he" (actually some fanatic jerk) said Rome, "he" really meant the Soviet Union. People were so convinced Yeshua was coming back in Oct. 1843, thousands sold all their possessions, bought ascention robes, put them on and ascended the hilltops to be swept up in the clouds. Oops! That night they came back down and bought back their stuff at greatly inflated prices. Then they went home, got out their bibles and reinterpreted...because god doesn't lie so it must be their fault.
I would contend that a careful reading of Revelations (something I have done about ten times too many) lends itself to the interpretation that George Bush is the anti-Yeshua!

madcow; There is no reason at this point in time, in the year of 2008, to believe that there would be any difference between a McCain or Obama presidency. None. Guns will continue to fire on people, money and our Rights will continue to be stolen from The People.

I'm showing my resistance to this lie with my vote for Nader. At least he represents what I see as the problem(s) and what should be done about it.

You truly are a believer in The Lie.

Ephraim and Siouxrose

Thanks for your insights into how this kind of otherwise easily dismissible lead article can set us humans thinking about what we are able to reveal to ourselves about ourselves by probing further within ourselves.

this is beginning to sound more and more like a stephen king novel by the second................and that dear friends is exactly what the bible is: a novel.

at least the 'original' dead sea scrolls exist...........we should demand their release from their prison so we can find out the 'real' truth.

The Anti-Christ will also be very wise.

Well I do believe that leaves McCain off of the hook. Besides, the Anti-Christ is gonna be pretty.

What a shit article this is.

What the hell is the Anti-Christ? Is it the same as the Devil? If so I'm ok because I don't beleive in the devil. As far as the rapture goes, maybe it has already happened and we have been left behind, but so has Hagee, Parsley, Haggard, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and Tim La Haye. Maybe we all deseve it. The ony people who made the cut are the kids that disappear and are never found like Jacob Wetterling.
Thank you posters. I needed your delightful humor.

I'd love to wade into this one, but as one of the most obnoxious atheists you'll never meet, it don't seem right. I don't need some modern day Nostradamus to tell me why John McCain is wrong for America. It is STILL the Supreme Court, stupid.

More seriously:

Thanks Siouxrose, for yr thoughtful notes.
Yes, in the year 553 or so, Justinian's Council (subverted by his power-mad wife) removed nearly all traces of references to Reincarnation from the extant Bible, -proclaiming things like, "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema." (ie: kicked out of their corrupted 'Churchianity'!)

As to the Book of Revelation itself, well, - like many esoteric scripts, it was written in codified, allegorical terms so as not to let those lost in 'a cloud of unknowing' into too many things they didn't ought to know about, in case they misused the knowledge.
Shame: The crazed Fundy's got hold of it and manufactured chaos out of it anyway!
Just as Charles Mason managed to chronically misinterpret the Beatle's lyrics to 'Helter-Skelter' so too, the many oafs who read all sorts of nonsense into the Revelation text.

Because this chronicle is so VERY abstruse and opaque, when the very unlearned scholars / scribes of the Dark Ages and onwards got hold of it, they managed to mangle it even more.
As Coco pointed out (above) a bit more light might be shed if the various books secreted in the Vatican's mouldering vaults were released, but hey, why spoil a good (and very gilded) thing...

I reckon the Gnostic Kabbalists and Helena Blavatsky were pretty spot on, and I especially respect the Tibetan, [ Djwhal Khul's ] interpretations, - he supplied authentic keys which no one else had previously offered.

_______________

Folks get a lot of fun (and misinformed mileage) out of all that '666' stuff, but even that bit is based on garbled gematria, and if one smokes enough noxious weed, the Rastafarian interpretation of *BOR* (Book of Revelation) begins to take on a semblance of ...er... I forget now. What were we talking about?

As to the Hobson's choice between Premillennialism, Postmillennialism, Amillennialism and Antimillennialism, that's a tricky one: If your eschatology gets a bit wobbly here, why not just toss a coin and believe / don't believe in any of 'em! ;)

If anyone wants to find out what true early Christians believed, I'd suggest reading Origen Adamantius, but caution is needed as some of his work was mis-scribed / altered by later 'cycloptic' zealots. ~ Being good 'anti-heterodox' Christians, those ever-compassionate church officials decided to horribly torture this poor soul for being a bit too devout and sincere.

Yes Sioux, some chauvinistic 'Israelites' can be real slow learners! The Jewish folk of yesteryear wouldn't listen to the heads-up they got from Big G, so were 'accursed to roam'.

Bless the leftwing Progressives in that land at present, they have REALLY got their work cut out, - battling with those mendacious, obdurate and evil-hearted warmonger devils at the helm! (It's maybe interesting to note that due to the intricacies of Karma and reincarnation, some prior Nazis have since been reborn as Jews).

Sioux: " We are now in a battle between light and dark," ~ 'Twas ever thus m'dear! But maybe it's all a tad more enlivened now that Kali Yuga is ending and Satya Yuga has begun. The old devils are not giving up without a fight.

Then again, - nor are we!

Tsk Tsk!!

You are all being very naughty in implying that this nice Mr McCain-and-Abel guy is the Antifreeze!
I've been putting him in my radiator for a month now, and I can tell you that (touch wood) the engine hasn't frozen yet, (it just belches satanically sulphurous smoke instead).
So that proves it: Jonah McBrainAddle *can't* be the Antifreeze!

I think the real AuntieChrist is my elderly relative. Her actual name is Auntie-Christobel, but we call her 'Berserkus Beelzebub Cheney' for short. She is a distant relative of Osama Obama, who in turn is related to Donald Duck-brain Regan and Peter Pan Bush.
All four have been through the secret Skull & Bones black magic ceremonies at Yale, so they are now PROPER war-lovin' loud-mouthed, arrogant, baby-crucifying, blood-letting *CHRISTAINS*, (not the namby-pamby humble sort, who still believe in all that old commie 'Sermon on the Mount' stuff...)

__________________

Btw: For those who doubt the veracity of the above article, please check out the bit in the 'Block of Revelation' where it distinctly says, "Ye Freedom Fries offer at WartMarl shall continueth till November, but after that, Herr Kommander John 'Diablo' Bolton says 'No more Mr Nice Guy'."
~ See! That proves it!!

"Halitosis Hallelujah! ~ I've got genuine 'Old Testermint Colorado Springs' in my mattress, and I can feel a happy-clap evanJelo hymn comin' on!!"

[...Sound of maniacal hymn singing, as U-C-D is carted off in large white van with the siren blaring ...]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Footnote:
Apologies for my former student, the abovementioned: "David Jenkins, a leading Biblical scholar."

I have tried SO hard with that poor demented boy, but he STILL insists on saying things like: "...We believe that the End Times *is* near" (- in place of ARE near).

And his grammar in, "...Many people think that the Antichrist will be *a* evil-seeming leader..." (instead of "AN evil leader") just proves that him insisting he should only ever read his 'New World Order MuckDonald's Bible' upside-down and backwards was not such a good idea after all.

Oh dear, [ -sobs- ] I so despair of that ignoramus Jenkins sometimes!

Maybe I'll quit teaching and take up gardening? ~ I've planted lots this year.

I have a (third) degree from the Blackwater College of Psy-ops Bomb Planting you know...

...

Actually, there is some thought that the papacy and/or the Pope are the anti-Christ. I was at a bible study class that pointed out the passages that supported this theory and didn't find any that ruled it out.

[...] Doesn't it say somewhere in Revelation that the Antichrist "will cause great laughter among the multitudes of unbelievers"?
_________________________________

Well, at least that rules out Dennis Miller.

Somone who sings Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran is hardly trying to pretend to be Christ like while being an anti-Christ. McCain wears his wolfs clothing with pride. The anti-Christ will be someone pretending to be a lamb while in fact is a wolf. Thats Obama. If you have ready the LeHay series, he is someone beloved globally and who becomes the UN (Global) President, a young skinny very articulate guy, just like Obama (in Lehays series he was a white French guy). Flashback to the staged Obama speech when 200,000 came out for a concert, the price of admission was listening to Obamas speech. Clearly campaigning for global President (4 years as US President followed by 6 year term as UN President, thats why he said he will have to deal with these folks overseas for 8-10 years).

Clearly Obama is being promoted as some kind of a Global President, and is more likely to be an anti-Christ than McCain.

The anti-christ will only be known to be evil AFTER he comes to power. Man, how do people not know this.

Anyone voting for him without reading Dreams From My Father deserves what they get.

To whom it may concern,

Mr. Dreyfuss was just rediculing the Christian Right. If you took him
for serious then the joke is on you.

To Siouxrose,

I told you to cut down on mescaline and smoking to much peyote.
Your hallucinations is getting out of hand.

THE WORD "IRONIC IS A WEASEL WORD WITH NO REAL MEANING IT POINTS TO NO ACCOUNTABILITY. FOR THE LEFT TO REALLY MAKE A CHANGE IN ITS VOICE IT CAN STOP USING THAT WEAK WORD.
HOW ABOUT , SAYING JUST WHAT THE WRITER REALLY MEANS BY USING THAT WORD?SUCH AS CRIMINAL , MULTIPLE LIES AND SUBTERFUGE .........LYING

elmysterio - thank you!

Siouxrose - facinating posts. Very informative. I too am a believer in reincarnation, although I feel the word "believe" doesn't even come close.

There seems to be a lot of complaining about Obama and McCain being the only candidates... I don't know if this seems off topic, but in reference to the first posted comments... if we had instant runoff voting that would solve all of those problems. We could vote for anyone we wanted... otherwise feeling like we are gambling our vote away, with Nader, Kucinich, etc. Many could even vote for Hilary if they wanted to regardless of the democratic party. In reality it could potentially make the party system obsolete.

--> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Instant+runoff+voting&search_type=&aq=f
--> http://www.google.com/search?q=instant+runoff+voting&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1

The author is reporting news. It is amazing news. He has done a good job to bring it to you. It is not his fault that americans are religiously foolish and likely to actually care about this nonsense. Why are you bitching?

.
O, What a pack of Bible-Pounding BOOBS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

Although I love the phrase "Bible-believing Christians" I think it would be more proper to call them by there true descriptive name, morons.

This is a really stupid article, but at the same time it is a real live hoot. It should be on some TV show, not a serious web page, but besides the fact that there are people who take this biologically processed cattle feed seriously, there are also people who spend large amounts of time writing responses to it. Would you believe that some people have actually discussed this in other than academic terms!!! For several paragraphs?!

A truly good metaphor is like the Rorschach Ink blot test... we SEE in it what we will, and much that appears revealed is itself based on the witness's own projection.

Alltogether now: thank you for the suggestion.

EPHRAIM: Interesting post, and I think I will check out that book. I have been more moved by the FACT that the Bibles have been rewritten numerous times to satisfy the various kings of England, etc. Most intriguing to me was what purportedly was expiated from the Bible during the Council of Nicaea, and that WHAT was expunged related to reincarnation.

Although "The Da Vinci Code" was fiction, the author, Dan Brown made a true point about the types of occult material retained by the Vatican. And since I believe in reincarnation, and have been very disciplined in maintaining my personal library, I sense I may have watched the great library (so many mystical/occult teachings) at Alexandria burn. Note, too, that totalitarian regimes tend to burn books and sometimes the intelligentsia that wrote them.

We are now in a battle between light and dark. If the old school were able to hold to power, a new dark age would advance. Truth can never get lost... it's written into our DNA, and some souls have such strong imprints, even if they find themselves born into obscure 3rd world tribes, they find ways to share what they KNOW.

Just for those who really want to know who the 'Anti-Christ' *was*:

666 (six hundred three score and six) is the number ascribed by the Kabalistic system known as Gematria to the Roman Emperor Gaius Nero Caesar. He's been dead since 76 CE.

He is noted for being an opponent of early Christianity, and was the one who ordered the exile of one John of Patmos, later called St. John the Divine, reputed author of the Book of Revelations.

Siouxrose, you might be interested in D.H. Lawrence's "Apocalypse," his last book, published 1930. Very interesting study, even if somewhat impressionistic, of Revelation. (BTW, empirePie, it's Revelation, no "s". It's singular, not plural.)

Lawrence shows how the last book of the Bible was really rewritten several times from earlier apocalyptists' versions, and how John of Patmos was a raging, vengeful Jew who lusted not only for the demise of the Roman empire that exiled him on Patmos, but feverishly desired the destruction of the universe. That's how pissed he was.

His Christ is the antithesis of Christ of the Gospels, to the extent that it can be argued he wasn't even familiar with the Gospels. The vengeful Christ of Revelation bears almost no resemblance to the Christ of the Beatitudes or the Sermon on the Mount. One point Lawrence makes is that the Jews had always felt superior to and hated their neighbors, and John the Divine was no exception. Lawrence makes Revelation seem as much a fevered dream of Jewish retribution as the crazed culmination of Christianity it finally came to be.

Little wonder then our current crop of fundamentalists have made their beds with Israel. Both seem hellbent on the total destruction of the world to fulfill their psychotic visions of "God's will."

Listen up all ye worthless non-believers and committers of other unforgivable sins, when someone fingereth the AntiChrist. Boweth down before this prophet and render him praise, for the AntiChrist is slipperier than a greased eel and more clever than Donald Trump buying real estate, thus a real bitch to pineth down.

-- Book of Rodney 6:17

To convince the fundies, doesn't Dreyfuss have to show that McCain indeed has the Number of the Beast (666)?

Did Common Dreams run out of articles to publish?

if he's the antichrist theres not much we can do about it now can we?

or maybe it will go like this

"um...sorry satan, the antichrist didnt win the electoral college...we'll have to wait another eternity and try armageddon again..."

sioux,
like your comments, you might enjoy this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCermULRk-I
abani talks about how some africans create gods, build idols and shrines, but when the gods mistreat them they are torn down and not mentioned again. a way of maintaining humanity as the priority. its beautiful.

it looks like they took the website off the internet. Pity...

I don't recall the title of the book by Gregg Braden, but it's premise is that the ethers surrounding our planet (and solar system) constitute an interactive field. This is where all the belief systems that teach students to focus their intentions, hold an image in mind that they wish to manifest, recite affirmations or repeat mantras comes into play. There IS a power to all of this. (I don't make a practice of using these systems as I see them as a form of spiritual manipulation, or white magic. Ultimately we each have a plan, and are intended to learn through our lessons, some involve labor pains.)

It's been said that Tony Blair and Bush really do believe in the End Times scenario. And even if they did not (their policies reflect such a distorted belief, although as KIVALS has often shared in this forum, it may just be convenient for these leaders to use the Christian flock, useful idiots, by taking on the "faith" semblance to trick them) there are MILLIONS who do believe that mankind has come to THE END. I spoke to two interesting sources on this emerging aspect of a powerful segment of our own population. One was a trance medium. He told me not to under-estimate the influence of those "that want oblivion: an end to it all." Think how easy it is if your life is unsatisfying, this speaks to those who suffer lives of quiet desperation... to believe you will be "beamed up" to a better place.

It struck me driving home last night (I get my best ideas when I am alone on a long road) that one of the most intelligent uses of money, perhaps a fund raising campaign to amass it, would be a large advertisement placed in a well-read international newspaper (perhaps one here in the US) that spoke to ALL people of (presumed) faith... and asked them to PLEASE look anew at their beliefs... for their FAITH in end times is positioned to KILL a great many people. And the fundamentalists of all 3 major patriarchal religions are guilty of this grotesque error of spiritual understanding.

The 2nd source were Buddhist monks when I had the privilege of spending 10 silent days at a monastery in Nepal several years ago. At that time, a popular misconception moving through New Age circles (since 1942 has often posted in this forum about the influence wielded by editors as cultures' gatekeepers. As one who made a decent living as a writer until something like being blacklisted hit me in l995, I can truly say that there are very definitely "rules" to what gets published for the most part.) was that the time of THE END OF KARMA had come.

How convenient for those who never learned the basic lesson plan, to pass their most basic tests here on "Earth School 101" to graduate to this "end of karma" or "end times" without showing any evidence of the quintessential teaching central to ALL religions: consideration, kindness, LOVE for one's fellow man/woman. Living life as close to the ideal of peace and justice that we can.

The anti-Christ is probably best understood as that energy that would run counter to those beliefs espoused by the Masters who came to this primitive earth to do their best to leave behind the SEEDS of understanding that would grow into harvests of peace and decent living for ALL. It's been more than obvious that the types of person by blood lust or blood lineage who have assumed power have used religious teachings to serve their own diabolical ends. THAT is the anti-Christ. And as I have personally shared in this forum, there is no greater proof necessary than noting to degree to which religion, (many blame Jews, yes, Israel is part of the problem) has fostered and promoted this insane middle East debacle, a war of CHOICE. Indeed it is the sum of self-fulfilling prophecy for those who have elected to believe in these end times. For the rest of us, we either wake up the insane (if that is possible), pray pretty damned hard for Divine intervention, or ride the wave. In case of the latter, I encourage you all to consider that your SOUL is inviolate and timeless... but this world, as we knew and loved it, may pass away. If dinosaurs preceded us, it's hard to say what's next.

That our air force and military is using rhetoric about Christianity/Christ/holy war and crusades nominates IT for the anti-Christ award.

www.bushisantichrist.com

I have heard rumours about Obama being the foretold Anti-Christ based on the idea that he wants to bring humanity together. I believe it says somewhere that the real Anti-Christ gives the impression that he is a "unifier." Both Obama and George W. Bush gives this impression but the above website gives compelling evidence and is an interesting read.

Put them in a police lineup: Senator McCain, George W. Bush, and someone dressed up as a purple cloth baby toy (Tinky Winky). See if the Evangelicals can positively identify the Antichrist.

This is true!

Are these people as dumb as they sound. Neither McSame or Obama can be the anti-christ. It was Reagan!! Ronald (6 letters) Wilson (6 letters) Reagan (6 letters) 666. Case closed

Was the Antichrist supposed to be so short?

wilmoor asked: "Where is Babylon, anyway?"

Babylon was an ancient city in Mesopotamia in what is known now as Iraq. Archeologists have been excavating it since the 1970's and have found many wonderful treasures. Unfortunately, since the US invasion of Iraq, looters have trashed the site, as well as the US military using it as an operation base. They've pretty much destroyed the historical record there. That is a crime against history that we should all grieve.

(Both McSame and Obaminable are satanic. It's like choosing between Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.)

Ummm, you DO realize that this is 2008 and not 1008, right? Would it be too much trouble to ask that before you vote, you acquaint yourself with the modern world?

Couldn't agree more Daniel, whatever the reason, no matter how far fetched, if it helps to keep McCain out of the White House, then keep fanning the flames!

I know, I've already been told why gwb can't be the Antichrist, but someone further up the posts said something about great numbers of people laughing, and there's certainly a lot about him that's laughable - if anyone felt like laughing.

A very conservative christian I knew told me back in 2000 that McCain ran a devil worship cult in Arizona.

Where is Babylon, anyway?

McCain the antichrist? Would that tag work to drive evangelicals away from him when merely being a hard-cussin' skirt-chasin' adulterous beer dealer won't do that trick?

Okay. Works for me. Get those church folks crankin' those crank e-mails about McCain as antichrist. They're so far too dumb to merely see the CRYSTAL CLEAR beer dealer problem, so give 'em something more based in prophecy wonk stuff. Maybe THAT will be the buttkicker in the pews.

AllTogetherNow said: "the anti-christ, don't vote for him? or the anti-christ, the end of days is just what we believers have been waiting for?"

Exactly. Does this mean End-times believers are going to vote FOR John McCain or AGAINST him? I mean, don't they WANT the end-times to come, cuz it means smiley-faces and chocolate milk for the rest of eternity?

In any case, I believe McCains left cheek may be an alien from another planet, giving him orders against his will.

Anyone who thinks McCain is "charming" will fall for this joke masquerading itself as news.

'i'm starting to think cd has been infiltrated by neocon-fascist bent on bringing down obama'

i'm starting to think cd has been infiltrated by aliens.................

mordechai, who is ted nugent?

according to the dead sea scrolls (the ones that have seen the light of day anyway - the rest are still being held prisoner in the vatican) the next battle to end all battles will be in har megaddo (spelling?) which is (or was) in (ancient) jordan - hence the name armageddon............

Hmm - vote for Obama and be denied the Rapture.
Vote for McCain and start the apocolypse. Decisions decisions...........

longingforsanity August 8th, 2008 1:54 pm
Truth_Forward August 8th, 2008 2:16 pm

I am stupid! Of course!! McCain cannot be the anti-Christ because I've known for certain, for years it was Dick Cheney.

The Anti-Christ of Revelation was NERO.

See "gematria"

If McCane is the Anti-Christ then who is in the Whitehouse? Shaytan Bozorg?

Can't anyone see the glow in John McCain's eyes when he's mad?

After an exhaustive study lasting more than a decade, utilizing the archives of every major theological seminary in The Known World, I have concluded beyond any reasonable or unreasonable doubt that Ted Nugent is the AntiChrist. This man Jenkins is an obvious imposter and a paid agent of the Darkest Powers currently accelerating the Armageddon. Seek him out and destroy him! Repent, you heathen faggots and philistines! Your only salvation is repeated listening to the collected works of Lawrence Welk and Guy Lombardo wherein you will hear the evangel of The Harmonic Vibration The Great Spirit sent out at the moment of Creation. McCain is a nobody, a dumb, lying agent of the Jewish/Communist Bankers' Conspiracy. GET RIGHT WITH GOD! DO IT NOW AND YOU WILL BE SAVED TO ULTIMATELY SIT AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE LORD WHEN THE WORLD COMES TO AN END AFTER THE SUPER BOWL IS PLAYED IN ROMANIA!

I'm still trying to figure out whether the author is serious. Is this happening? Christ (oops!), it's only August.

What'll we get for an October surprise?

Well, it's hard to argue that the anti-christ won't be a Romanian with all the vampires runnin' amok and all, but McCain genial and folksy?! Hell Naw!!!!!!!! What's wrong with those people?;)

Looks like we are screwed because apparently Obama is also the antichrist!

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1830590,00.html

the anti-christ, don't vote for him?
or the anti-christ, the end of days is just what we believers have been waiting for?

Whenever I read this kind of shite, I can't help but think how much better the Protestant franchises of Christianity would be if Martin Luther had stuck to his gut feelings and kept out of his Bible the books of Hebrews, James, Jude, Revelation. Imagine not having to listen to this end-times crap!

Ragnarok is coming, Jesus ain't.

Revelations

Do you have the spirit of the revelations?
Is the true spirit in the Revelations?
Does it show God's love?

Should it be included in the Do unto others book?
Have you read Revelations?
All agog with brimstone and retribution.

Where are we in the prophecy?
Searching for Babylon?

Hey Babylon has fallen
Mission accomplished
Abuh Graib the infidels as we
extend the new empire (Babylon)

Where are we in the prophecy?

Pondering the four extra spirits?
Searching for a new island penal colony
A new wall?

Those one hundred and forty four thousand…
Are they within the wall?

Have any seals been opened yet?

Are we busy looking for the beast?
Has that cradle river dried up yet spewing
Forth a beast?

What sort of beast?
Foul and frogfish
Or jawed and dragonish
Perhaps…… a non-being with people rights
Yah a false prophet with one bottom line..
Aligning fire from above
with prophet spin
Consumes us while we plunder
Our spaceship garden

God's oceans of blood colored wrath
A tame form of shock and awe
While depleted U makes that
burning sulfurous lake blush with Bushness.

Say what color is Dubayah's horse?
Has anyone seen the beast?

Who really cares what or who the Anti-Christ is? This is all nonsense!

More nonsense from the religious. It won't ever end but it's amusing to see what new absurdity they can dream up from their cauldron of fantasy.
Since there's no Christ, there can be no Anti-Christ. Even if there were, McCain has neither the following, the intelligence, or the vitality to be.

Damn.

I though John Hagee was the antichrist but as usual I get those things wrong. I've always been told that the AC will pretend to be a devout Christian. As far as CD publishing articles like these, everybody needs a little entertainment now and then. Fundies are always good for a laugh.

Does anyone seriously believe that McLame has the brains to be the anti-Christ? Now cindy.....that's another story.

I know this essay is supposed to be cute, cute, cute...but damn it, I ain't laughing. If it were a parody on the desperation to secure votes for Obama by convincing us that the alternative (McCain) is so much, much worse that we should forgive every Obama "sin" rather than enable the anti-Christ, I could lighten up and yuk a little. But given the proclivity of Nation (of which I'm a "fellow," no less!) to perpetrate exactly this brand of fear-mongering in favor of the same Obama whom they criticize and issue "open letters" of supplication to be a nicer little progressive, I think it's not a parody at all, because the "butt" of the joke is not faux-progressives like themselves but the wooden McCain who makes stupid "insinuations" about Obama, the most insidious of which is the (supposedly) crazy idea that Obama talks, thinks and acts like "The One." And as if McCain were the only soul who happened to note just a tad of the "cult of personality" in Obama's followership.

hail Cthulhu

And all this time I've been convinced the Antichrist is either Wolfowitz, Ahmadinejad or Robin Williams. Doesn't it say somewhere in Revelation that the Antichrist "will cause great laughter among the multitudes of unbelievers"?

I'm glad to see that the life, love, and teachings of Jesus have been put to good use: to manipulate and control the impressionable using fear as leverage.

Truly this is what Jesus meant when He said "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love."

Or when his student said concerning their faith "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear..."

I'm so embarrassed.

Armageddon was fought in 1917. Armies from five continents clashed together at "Megiddo" in a world war one battle.

thank god for Kafka and the theatre of the absurd

"I'm starting to think CD has been infiltrated by neocon-fascist bent on bringing down Obama." That would be an ignorant assumption. CD does, however, have independent thinkers who are not marching lock-step with the Obama camp. There are millions of disgruntled, ex-Democrats, progressives who are savvy about Democratic Party complicity with the war machine. No Nader supporter ever said Nader would "save" us. What we are saying is that voting for the same thing over and over and over again and then yelling ouch my butt hurts over and over and over again and then voting the same again is the definition of insanity. It amazes me that Democrats who want to convince Nader supporters to voting Democratic only offer invective and insults. You know, you would think you would have learned by now that this doesn't work. Then again, these are the same folk who voted for the Pelosi gang and are now voting for the S.O.S. again. May is suggest a healthy supply of Preparation-H. You are going to need it. As for anyone being the anti-Christ or the Redeemer. What ignorance that anyone should believe any of this? The 21st century is a new Dark Age.

Welcome to babble-on!

Dangit! I've been telling everyone that the present dear leader was the antichrist. I guess I have to send out another e-mail...

Do we have to keep paying our bills during the end times?

Dave

It's like choosing between Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

come on, Ted just liked to play with his food.

And all along I thought Dick Cheney was the antiChrist controlling Babylon. But I read the article with an open mind, and yes, I mistakenly thought the antiChrist would be transparently evil; McCain's "charm" is more in line with prophecy. I don't know if they've got it right (for the nonironically inclined, I am being ironic), but I do heed the old Confucian curse: "May you live in interesting times." Do we ever.

Ah, "Mihaj" is just the Romanian form of the exceptionally common name "Michael." The phrase, "Who is like God" is a question, not a statement. It was the battle cry of angels, led by the archangel Michael, against the satanic angels who dared to question God's authority. In modern parlance, it's the equivalent of "You ain't shit, punk."

Not that we're taking Jenkins seriously, but it would be nice of these so called Biblical scholars weren't so utterly stoooooopid.

I can't believe CD has put this excrement on here. Only the deranged could even consider the context.

Whats next....a paper by John Hagee explaining that his research proves that Senator Obasma is really from Pluto?

Thios is truly embarrasing for CD.

"McCain the Antichrist?"

Oh my gosh! This is the strongest argument to vote for the Democrats yet! Cast out the devil! Be gone unclean beast! Are you serious? The corporate party's habit of demonising (literally) both tweedledum and tweedledee is getting a little stale, don't you think? Be afraid, be very afraid! I guess this article takes the place of McKinney's last speech we won't be discussing, or the policies of Nader that might interest people.

Where do these people come up with this shit?

Can't wait to see how many posters say McCain and Obama are the same---and only Nader will save us...I'm starting to think CD has been infiltrated by neocon-fascist bent on bringing down Obama...

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Both McSame and Obaminable are satanic. It's like choosing between Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer.

I thought he was a shape-shifting lizard, but I'll take Antichrist.

Maybe these are the same nuts who started
the story that McCain is the 'Manchurian Candidate'
after 5+ years of brainwashing in Vietnam? Or
some twisted Limbaugh logic.