To 31407:
May be being Russian I am not the person to teach you about the Freedom of Speech, but even I know that Freedom of Speech cannot be absolute. If it is absolute, it starts to conflict with other Human Rights, especially with Other People Human Rights. You can reed more about that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech#Limitations_on_freedom_of_speech
Also I am not sure about real existence of God, but even I feel bad looking at your posts with Biblical and obscene language mixture. What do you think real believers feel?

About this tragedy in South Ossetia and Georgia:
I want to note that Russia first asked UN and international community to intervene the conflict, but they didn't decide anything. May be because Saakashvili was lying all the time. Only after approximately 16 hours Russia have send backing forces to South Ossetia. Georgia started to fire at Capital of South Ossetia even way before 7th of August, but nobody was paying attention to this at that time. Also there was report in the news that Georgia concentrates their forces near the border with South Ossetia even before 7th of August. Saakashvili always lies about South Ossetia people. They are not separatists or terrorists or something like that. They are farmers! They didn't start that war. I have friends who just recently were traveling there. There was problem to rent a room in hotel so they stayed at someone's home. Can you imagine this Ossetia people even refused to take money for the food and stay? They gave a lot of fruits and their own wine to my friends to eat and drink while traveling back to Russia. I do not believe that those people started the war! Also do you remember Condoleezza Rice visit to Georgia at July 10, 2008? Right after that Saakashvili started preparations for the war. He should be judged as Saddam Hussein. And may be during the investigation he will reveal who paid him? Of course they will not tell us anyway…

Watching this unfold has been a great refresher course in Propoganda 101.

SOME Western media still manage to choke out the fact that Georgia attacked Ossentia first, (but still fail to mention they murdered the Russian peacekeepers)....but most have quicky changed this onto a Russian invasion of Georgia, and are now calling Ossetia a "Rebel" enclave of Georgia....

George Junior Bush crying about "the crime of invading a sovereign nation" is TRULY laughable....At least Putin has an reason on attack Georgia...actual self defense. The USA could not come up with ONE GOOD REASON to invade Iraq, despite all their spin doctors.

I am LOVING watching all the Imperial Neocons pissing in their pants!! Thinking of all the money they have to lose!! HAHAHAHA

Don't expect George Bush to do anything except spouting the usual rhetoric about democracy and human rights. Corporate America of course eyes the energy transit routes as much as Russia does, but U.S. troops and corporate mercenaries have their hands full in the other oil wars.
Georgia has made the fateful error of making overtures to the West unaware that the Western corpocracy is completely uninterested in democracy, improving the standard of living of Georgians or human rights. Georgia is nothing more than a piece of real estate to the Neo-Cons while the American public has no say in foreign policy decisions. The end result will be the 'incorporation' of Georgia back into the Russian sphere of influence but not before the deaths of thousands of innocents.

This is in part blowback for The balksans and the dismemberment of Serbia. Russia warned that the West resognizing Kosovo as a seperate state would lead to this very thing.

The US wanted to recognize Kosovo, not because of human rights, but because of the vast mineral resources they sit atop of which US firms could not access when it part of Serbia.

Russia stated quite clearly that if the peoples of Kosovo can unilateraly secede from Serbia , then the same would happen in places like South Ossetia.

This is that same old power game going on with the great powers trying to assert control over resources and trade corridors.

The Russians reassert themselves and the US quite frankly is getting its backside handed to it from a geopolitical standpoint.

What I find so hyprocritical is that the permanent members of the security council are not only the largest sellers of arms in the world, they also tend to be the ones behind most of the worlds wars and conflicts.

Nice timing to avoid outcry, Friday and start of the Olympics.

Georgia is bombing South Ossetia population centers.
Georgia says Russian aircraft bombed its air bases.
Who is playing by the rules of war and who is playing by the rules of Bush?

This is a clear act of aggression by Russia against Georgia. Too bad we're too busy with our own aggressions to do anything about it.

What we are seeing here is the natural ebb and flow of the Russian Empire. This would have not come to pass if the West had heeded the warnings coming from the former Soviet Union that unless massive aid in transforming those nation's structures: political, economic, etc., came in, they would revert to doing business the "old way" and those who would hold power are very slimy indeed. That has now come to pass as Russia is now ruled by Czar Putin (enriched by oil and gas profits) and the empire has decided to flex its' muscle in a long term drive to regain "lost territories." Russia, along with China, India, & the EU (with Iran, Brazil Malaysia, & others scrambling to join), have become part of a multi-tiered, multi-power game not unlike the post Napoleonic order of Europe. The disturbing lesson from history is that order destroyed itself spectacularly in WW1. Now the weapons are of much greater scope.

What's wrong with balkanization? Anarchy leads to local self-determination.

Free South Ossetia has the same ring to it as Free Tibet. If they're ethnically different, let them govern themselves.

Perhaps South Ossetia is being used as a pawn in a much larger power struggle between East and West. Seems the simplest solution is to have Georgia just let them be.

No mention of the 1,000 US Marines in Georgia training their forces.

"renounce the use of force" had been unacceptable to the Georgians, backed by the United States...
What else needs to be said? The US cares not for diplomacy nor peacefully working out complex issues, only using people to gain imperial ends.

The US will not 'win' this. This is too close to Russia, they have much the bigger stake.
Only the warmongers will win because the fear level has been raised even more, just in time for presidential politicking.

This is another proxy attack by the US on Russia. It is a good thing that Russia is fighting back against this expansion of NATO aggression. Until Russia and China get their act together and unite to fight back against this constant joint US-Western European, we are just going to see a non-stop military advance by the US military-industrial-prison gulag complex around the globe. Russia and China can no more expect a reconciliation with the US and its allies than they could with the Germans and Japanese in the past.

Georgia is an interesting case, historicly. Long ago it plead for the protection of the Russian Empire from the Turkic-islamic peoples that encircled it and the main road of support from Russia to Georgia was driven through the heart of what is now Ossetia. As I imply, the religious issue is still paramount--Ossetians and Abkhazians are Muslim, as are most peoples of the Caucaus Mountain region--a region far more balkanized socio-culturally than the Balkans. A writer for AsiaTimes online predicted this event several weeks ago, and correctly called it NATO aggression against Russia through the use of proxy Georgian forces. NATO/EU is very foolish to back the USA in this as they are totally dependant on Russia for current and future energy supplies. I certainly do expect Russia to veto any further UNSC sanctions on Iran.

Someone needs to awaken the Europeans to the fact that they've already lost in any dispute with Russia if they want to continue to recieve oil and natural gas to run their economies; indeed, they must realize their future is in some sort of cooperative with Russia, not the increasing antagonistic posturing forced on them by the US Empire through NATO. Russia will be just as happy to send its energy resources south and east instead of west, and a policy is indeed in place to do just that as the pipelines and pumping stations are already under construction.

The European-region independent states that were once part of the Russian Empire are starting to understand through the geopolitics of energy just how advantaged they once were as their energy sources are no longer subsidized and they must now pay higher, spot-market-related rates. The Central Asian states have no illusions that they are within the Russian sphere, and after a brief flirtation with the US Empire and NATO, they have mostly resumed their former SSR status regarding where the shots are called from--Moscow. It's easy to see just which factions within the declining US Empire would like to rekindle the Cold War as the Global War Of Terror is losing its public appeal.

The Western big business puppet government has spoken, and isn't it "great" Reuters repeats this pack of damn lies.

Why is it Chechnya is referred to as a breakaway "republic," in the Western media, when it's never been a republic, but is moving toward being separatist fanatic gangster stooge
state for US neo cons, but South Osssettia the same media refer to as a "rebel territory"?
"Rebel territory" is just a way to attack the legitimacy of people seeking real democracy and freedom from being under the boot of US and other Western big business interests.

Moscow is fighting for democracy which the US Government is waging war on, again. You folks need to go see John Pilger's "War on Democracy," a documentary feature film about US foreign policy as it really is, not the fairy tale constantly passed off to us all by US media.

Let's not kid ourselves and view the Russians as saints. But that being said, the Russians are far more logical and reasonable in their geopolitical strategy. They're really not interested in war and are big on co-operation between nations. Frankly, we'd be better off with Russia as the sole superpower than we are with the US. I'm quite pleased to see Russia rebuilding itself after the western lead fire-sale that occurred in the early 90's. The United States drastically needs some counter-balance to keep them in line.

So since South Ossetia as been defacto independent since the 1990's, I think the Georgians are being played as patsies by NATO in order to drag Russia into a military conflict.

AD said: "isn't it "great" Reuters repeats this pack of damn lies"

Ah Reuters... they can always be counted on to write whatever the empire wants. They're one of the worst for propaganda, especially in their use of misleading language.

"No mention of the 1,000 US Marines in Georgia training their forces."

Yup. This aggression is clearly instigated by the U.S. and another pliant ally does our bidding for us for scraps. Hopefully Russia will clobber these morons. Already there are 1000's of dead civilians in the capital ... small price to pay for Empire.

I've been scouring the net for news on this all morning, and though everything you find has to be taken with plenty of doubt, it really looks like Georgie pushed for this more than Russia. What's Russia got to gain from this conflict? I've heard two arguments:

1. Territory. Sorry, but huge Russia's not going to become the worst pariah on the planet over little South Ossetia ....that's absurd. Last thing Russia needs is another little volatile basket-case province (with not a lot in the way of natural resources, no less).

2. Revenge for Kosovo. Even more absurd. Sure, there are Russians who'd love to see the west get a dose of its own medicine, but they're not going to start a war to do that. Wars are expensive, unpredictable, and almost never end up with the desired result.

These arguments aside, I'm not sure Georgia has much to gain from open conflict either, and maybe wasn't gunning for a full war as much as a flexing of its muscles in territory that it considers its own. Remember, a lot of Russians live in South Ossetia. Russians are very sensitive to the small former-Soviet countries that surround it, from the Baltic to the Balkans, that are basically trying to ethnically cleanse Russians from their realms in order to be more of a "nation." Ugly happenings in regard to this happen frequently, but we don't hear about them in western media. Russia maintains that it is only sending in forces to protect its people, and so far that's all they've really done. Georgia's done all of the bombing of its own territory. Yankees, Canadians and Brits ought to be fine with evacuating citizens - but CNN and BBC simply state "Russia Invades Georgia", like Stalin's at the helm and up to his old tricks.

Good points karlof1.
Russia controls Europe's gas supply and Winter will come.

As written by Stilba, "Russians are very sensitive to the small former-Soviet countries that surround it, from the Baltic to the Balkans, that are basically trying to ethnically cleanse Russians from their realms in order to be more of a "nation.""

I don't know about all the former SSR's but I do know that it was Soviet policy to 'settle' Baltic states with reliable Soviet families. "Russification" it was termed. It was coupled with "transportation" of idealogically unreliable elements - In other words, anyone who disagreed with the Soviet occupation was sent to Siberia. The theory was to enventually swamp and outnumber the indigenous populations and make the countries permanent parts of Russia.

With that historical context, I have little sympathy for the current Russian empire's complaints in regards to the Baltic nations. I feel for the Russians being imposed upon since they are having to pay for the sins of their fathers but not Putin and his lackeys.

I wonder if our Great White Benefactor (GWB) is behind Georgia's assault on the people of South Ossetia. Thousands are already dead.

VLADIKAVKAZ, August 8 (Itar-Tass) -- Georgian tanks are burning all round Tskhinvali, Ossetian peacekeeping battalion commander Kazbek Friyev said by phone.

test--Word Press clearly sucks. It won't allow imbedded hyperlinks anymore and nukes your comment if you try.

I tried to post a very good map of the former USSR that shows its administrative divisions which will help folks understand a few things. BUT, the comment software will not allow it--AGAIN!!!!!

Gee--I was able to post that comment!

To get the map for yourself, you'll need to go to the CD mainpage; scroll down until you see "Tools" on the left. Click maps. On the lefthand menu, click Russia/Republics. Scroll down to Soviet Union--Administrative Divisions 1989 (422K) and click. Now, with that up in one window, you can read what follows:

Back when I was studying the meltdown and breakup of the USSR and the further travails of Russia in the early 1990s, I read Soviet Disunion: A History of the Nationalities Problem, and I was alerted to the Abkazians, Ossetians, Chechens, and many others. The reason Chechnya was termed a "breakaway republic," is because that's what it was, an ASSR. It wasn't "eligible" for independece as were the SSRs, like Ukraine, Georgia, Latvia, etc. What everyone needs is a good map. There you will see that Abkazskaya is an ASSR within the Georgia SSR, whereas Yugo-Osetinskaya is an Autonomous Oblast within Georgia. These administrative divisions had special meanings within the USSR's government that included particular levels of autonomy from the "parent" statelet/SSR. For example, the Abkazians declined to join the newly independent state of Georgia from the outset. The Ossetian question is far more complex and is tied up with the war agaisnt the Chechens. As the regions name--South Ossetia--implies, there is a North Ossetia, too--Severo-Osetinskaya--which would like to combine into one province within Russia.

Upon perusing a list of books published recently about the Caucasus, I'm not too surprised at the vast expansion of attention its garnered since 1991. When I did my research, I had access to a very good university library that had most of the then extant books published in English, and a few in Russian, about the region, mnost of whom I read. There are easily ten times that number now available. If I had to do it now, I would choose the older publications first, especially those detailing how Russia came into possession of the region and studies of its peoples. Then I would carefully screen the newer publications for objectivity and use those without a clear bias. And all the while, I would have a good map.

Yes, Russification was the name of the policy and it occurred throughout the USSR, in much the same way the WASPs settled the USA. Regarding the conflict between the newly independent states and Russia over the treatment of Russian nationals, that erupted immediately and Yeltsin was very much the bulldog--not Putin. And it should be clear by now that Putin doesn't have "lackeys," whereas it was quite clear that Yeltsin did, and that they were foisted on him by Clinton and the West.

Now lets see if this comment will be allowed.

Georgia is the doorstep of the remaining Caucaus oil fields. If the pipeline out of this troubled region via Turkey is severed, that will make control of the Persian Gulf and the Straights of Hormuz that much more critical.

At the same time the US is moving two more aircraft carrier battle groups into the area, at the same time that Israel has all but announced it's intention to start bombing the disputed Iranian nuclear facilities.

News of this is all over the CBC and BBC, as well as the major European and Asian news services.

And the OECD has announced that it expects oil prices to jump to levels in excess of $200/bbl in light of drastically falling world oil production within 7 - 10 years, with 2015 being the time when world oil production is expected to drop 50%.

But in the US, the news is being dominated by the latest politician 'sex scandal'.

War for the control of the remaining large oil reserves will be starting soon, and I will be amazed if we make it through August without a war on Iran starting.

If it wasn't clear, Russification happened both before and during the USSR's life. Indeed, it was doing nothing more than following an old Tsarist policy. In fact, a lot of what the USSR did were extensions and modifications of former Tsarist policies.

Hi Galen--Remember the Bond flick, The World is Not Enough? Anybody? I suggest you rent it as it's one of the most honest Bond films ever made, and covers the topic at issue.

Put your comment and URL link in with an underline instead of a . such as www_PaulKemp_info and readers will edit the link in the browser bar.
www.PaulKemp.ca

Please look at Wordsofpeace.org for a free DVD about it. And Contactinfo.net. Also Peace is Possible by Andrea Cagan. It is an excellent bio. with 400 pgs. and 90 pictures of the last 50yrs from events on the most important things in Life. The Prem Rawat Tribute website is also excellent with audio samples to listen to. Thank you. Byam

"From The Times
August 9, 2008

Georgia's fait accompli failed
-Matthew Clements: Analysis

Georgia's main aim in its offensive in South Ossetia appears to have been a swift advance on the separatist capital Tskhinvali to seize Ossetian territory and achieve a fait accompli before Russia is able to respond."

Yet another Pentagram blunder???

Where are all the Free-Tibet bumpkins? South Ossetia desires independence from Georgia. Shouldn't Russia be supported?

Georgias president is our lackey that we helped get into power, and a Harvard University graduate. The timing of Georgias invasion suggests the invisible hand that wants to start a war with Russia is at work and not waiting for the elections that will put Brzezinski in power (Gates is a Brzezinski man and will likely continue on as SOD under Obama).

Republicans give us the little wars, Dems give us the big ones. This has been true for over 100 years. Lets see what happens in China and surrounding territories these next couple of weeks.

I stand by my damn statement that Reuters is putting out a pack of lies, and much of the British press especially the Guardian/Observer did the same damn thing over the Balkans crisis and the BBC faked footage to bring US intervention in the Balkans. I know what I'm a talking about as I covered Balkans crisis as a real independent journalist, Mr Hot Air Maestro.

The USA as it was in 1776 is fighting for slavery and calling freedom, as it kept slavery about 85 years after its fight for "freedom" in the 1770s and 1780s. The USA is for freedom for the rich white man to keep the rest of us in slavery. Let's stand up freedom and Moscow.

I'm thankful today Moscow has a first strike policy on nuclear weapons, and would love to see them use on the bad guy's military in Georgia. Appeasement of fascism has never worked.

The peceeding wasn't a full fledged endorcement of Moscow, but for now Moscow is standing up for the little guys getting pushed around.

This is amazing. This is a huge story that I am seeking more information about. But all I can find on all for networks is John Edwards' affair. Jesus christ, this guy isn't even a Senator anymore, he's a former Senator. Who gives a crap!

Courtesy of the Red White and Blue.

This has been a very informative discussion. Thanks all!

Galen, I think August is a little soon. I don't think that is enough time to get all the war machines in place. But I do agree, that this is going to be THE big one. And I think there are going to be war fronts all over the world. Here is my target list.

Venezuela coastline, Iran of course, something along the Russian border where the US is trying to put missiles (Poland?), and somewhere that will really piss the Chinese off and provoke a confrontation.

Bush and the EU have been going around poking a lot of nations in the eyes for several years. Especially Russia. And I think that Putin is going to make a very formidable and ruthless adversary. And his people love him because he truly loves Russia. And he will always protect Russia, no matter the means.

One thing that bothers me though. It is clear that we are reaching the tipping point of worldwide financial collapse. I don't know what inning we are in, but I know that the rich filth are behind all this. And they are going to have all their ducks in a row before they let the world explode into The Earths LAST War. I just don't know where they want their ducks. This club is euro centric. And I don't think Russia, China, So. America, or Africa have been allowed to be members of this rich filth club. That's the reason they have to be disabled. I also don't think Russia will ever be subjugated or disabled. I truly believe that they will blow up the planet rather than be serfs to the rich filth.

So, there you have it. The World According to the Rebel Farmer. Pretty dam* scary......

Karloff1 - Hey back at ya. And yes, I did see that Bond(age) flick.

Reb- There is a major concentration of US/UK naval firepower building in the Persian Gulf. It should be ready to go by next week. And Israel said last week they were ready to launch an 'independent' pre-emptive airstrike against the Iranian nuclear reactor sites.

Most of the chatter I am reading on a number of sites says the game is on, and August is the month.

Ever since Sherman marched into Savannah, those Georgian rebels have been holdin a mighty grudge. Now look at what they done, stirred things up so much the Russians had to get called in to settle em down a bit, Russians for crimean sake! Bush's so damn busy pretendin he's Alexander and marchin off towards Persia that he's gunna end up loosin Athens.

"Saakashvili, a U.S.-educated lawyer (Columbia Law School & George Washington University), came to power in 2003 backed by the U.S.

Most of the 70,000 South Ossetian residents hold Russian passports.

Georgia is a key link in a U.S.-backed "southern energy corridor" that connects the Caspian Sea region with world markets, bypassing Russia. The BP Plc-led Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline to Turkey runs about 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali."

This looks like Cheney's Oily Cabal has been at work for some time.

Ditto McCane
WASHINGTON— John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randall Scheunemann, lobbied for the nation of Georgia for four years, including for about a year after he joined the Republican senator's presidential campaign staff in early 2007.

Too bad the Caspian Sea oil deposits (the real reason the US, Canada, and NATO are in Afghanistan. Just look at the map of where the bases are. They follow the abandoned UNOCAL proposed pipeline route) are more dry hole than oil. But Bush is VERY familiar with the whole 'dry hole' drilling method...

Just read elsewhere that the remaining Georgian oil pipeline has suffered an explosion in Turkey, and will be down for the count for at least two weeks... any bets the price of oil starts going up on Monday?

karlof: "they are totally dependant on Russia for current and future energy supplies"

Europe can fully supply its own electricity on 1% of its land area. Biofuels on another 8%. Is this too much land to dedicate to energy? The USA dedicates 20% of its land area to meat/dairy. So why should Europe let the warmongers drag it into world war over fossil fuels?

kendpotter: "they are having to pay for the sins of their fathers"

Those ready to accept privilege inherited from their fathers should be ready to shoulder responsibility for the sins of their fathers.

Saakashvili attacked on the 7th day of the month under cover of a truce - a day of infamy?

"In Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian leader, Eduard Kokoity, claimed 1,400 civilians had been killed. There was no independent confirmation of his assertion, but witnesses said the city was devastated."

If it really is 1,400 civilians, that's two percent of the Russian population, then I doubt Russia will stand down soon. They might just go all the way to the Turkish border.

Armed Cossacks pour in to fight Georgians -
I wonder what they will do with any captured US 'advisers.' Treat them as 'unlawful combatants' just like George and Dick do at GITMO?

Source: Reuters
RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY ACCUSES UKRAINE OF "ENCOURAGING" GEORGIA TO CARRY OUT "ETHNIC CLEANSING" IN SOUTH OSSETIA BY PROVIDING ARMS

Maybe the Russian Bear will retake both Georgia and Ukraine.

Heckovajob, George, heckovajob!

I was in no way in my earlier posts seeking to canonize Moscow, but I would go back to Lord Action's words, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." That certainly held true of the USA when it became the sole international super power and completely corrupted by its power. With more of a balance of power retuning internationally, and the more the better, in this case with Moscow getting back to being an international super power, this gives hope for restoring more balance in international relations.

Russia needs to understand that Georgia no longer belongs to them - that Georgia is an independent nation now. That Georgia wants to join NATO (Personally, I would not recommend that) is the business of the Georgia Government and not of Russia. Both scenarios seem difficult for Moscow, but it is a reality Russia needs to accept. Georgia should just order the people of South Ossetia to leave and go live in Russia if this is how the people of South Ossetia truly feel.

There should be cease-fire, if only for the Olympics going on.

Z. Brezinski's "Grand Chessboard Strategy" is real and the game has begun, but possibly not to his liking. After the humiliating years of the Yeltsin/Soros years of carpetbagging and privatization, V. Putin restored Russian pride and has been instrumental in rebuilding their economy and negotiating alliances both economically and militarily in the region. As REBEL FARMER stated above, the Russian people do love him and he will do whatever it takes to defend the country. The Shanghai Cooperative Organization is the equivalent of NATO with Russia and China the key members. China also has ICBM's with hydrogen and atomic warheads that could land anywhere in the United States if push comes to shove.

Oil, natural gas, and minerals are finite and will be fought for by the imperialists, money lenders and the American Empire which will eventually be defeated in spite of the having the most powerful military force in human history. As some of you have said above, Europe should stand with Russia instead of being America's flunky. The whole world has been set back by the US "mortgage/banking crisis" so why should they continue in subservience to US demands? The people of Ireland get the gold medal for refusing to sign the accord several months ago on granting the EU more power than it needs.

Sadly, as I type, how many more people will be killed or maimed? Militaries in EVERY country on this planet must be eventually dismantled if humans ever want to establish a true brotherhood of people. We are long overdue to take up the pen and plowshare and not the sword .

All reasons for warring bullshit, now and throughout history, come down to one thing; guys just like to fight.