Some people are never pleased; you can join GWB in China-bashing. Only a few short years ago, China was under the heavy hand of Chairman Mao. They have an unusually long history of existence and culture, unlike the U.S. yet we insist they must change to suit our sensibilities. Let them find their own way and proceed the way they can or cannot. The Chinese will be around long after the melting pot of the U.S. has declined.

Redruby, you completely and totally missed the point of the entire article. Ms. Klein is describing another manifestation of global disaster capitalism, of which the government of China is a part of, just as the Bush regime is a part of.

Please read again before you judge.

China's current population is about 1.3 Billion which is approximately 20% of the Global population, I wonder if there is a tipping point when it comes to a Global Police State 2.0. When Jun Tao states that it is "impossible to continue to function in China" will it continue much longer that any of us can function out of China? I think the idea that doing business with China will make China a "free" nation is naive it is more likely that China is already changing all of us.

A Police-Surveillance State?

"Some of America's most powerful corporations-Cisco, General Electric, Honeywell..have been working hand in glove to make this possible."

One Third of Ralph Nader's investments, millions of dollars, are invested in Cisco.

By definition if repressive surveillance police states are evil.

Voting for Nader is PURE LESSER EVILISM! I love this.

I invite someone to drefend this. Please.

Naomi I feel failed to appreciate how much the quality of life has improved for the average Chinese citizen in the last thirty years.

Bless Naomi Klein.
Best Wishes PRC. Obama '08.

The disturbing thing is just how eerily close this is to what's happening in America.

Surveilence cameras going up everywhere. Ever-expanding police forces. A government that now has the right (thanks Democrats!) to monitor all Americans internet traffic.

'remember when Western companies used to claim that by doing business in China, they were actually spreading freedom and democracy? We are now seeing the reverse: investment in surveillance and censorship gear is helping Beijing to actively repress a new generation of activists before it has the chance to network into a mass movement.'

An interesting and frightening read, it's describing the real technology and motives needed to build Orwell's nineteen eighty four state. Of course the tech developed will be exported to other states that need to control or monitor the opinions of their populations.

That of course includes the states in the formerly free west and third world countries. Add the surveilence to the climate change problem and we'll be utterly screwed.

All this to make us safe from terrorism. State repression to limit individual protest. I still hope that the state will not be able to afford to continue on the path of 'disaster capitalism', don't exactly know how that will happen, but concentration camps rarely produce a profit.

"authoritarian capitalism,"

Isn't that Fascism? I think Mussolini would agree.

Let see. We've got the Democrats fully signed on to making America just like what is described here. I'm seeing it here in Denver where the occurance of the Dems convention is the excuse used for the surveilence cameras here popping up on every light pole. And of course the bills that keep passing Congress that ever expand the US Govs ability to spy on Americans all are doing so with the support of the Dem leadership, with many Dem votes, and certainly with the absence of any filibuster from our faux-opposition party.

Meanwhile, there's someone out there who's been trying to fight and oppose this for years, including running for President once the Democrats had obviously become a part of the problem in this area (and many others).

So, naturally the Democrats use this as a place to do yet some more Nader-bashing.

If you like the idea of America becoming a police state just like this, then please continue to vote Democrat.
If you oppose this, then stop voting Democrat.

And everytime the Dems Nader-bash, you should be asking the question of what is it that they don't want you looking at? What is it that they don't want you hearing? What is it that the Dems are doing that can't stand the light of day or the presence of any effective opposition party in this country?

The last is the really key point. Watch the Dems and be amazed at how they never, ever fight the Republicans and this agenda. But, when there's even a hint of an opposition party starting to emerge, watch just how visciously the Democrats can fight then.

Then ask that last question again. Why is it that the Dems are so visciously opposed to any real opposition party forming in this country?

The fact that our lovely little Dem-supporting, Nader-basher above is pointing out all the supposed benefits from the Chinese one-party police state should make you very afraid.

"but concentration camps rarely produce a profit."

ask Ford Motor Company that question. During world war ii in Germany, I believe they used concentration camp labor in their factories.

While McCommunism is a nice PR hook, it is not exactly accurate. What Klein describes so well is nothing more than a successful manifestation of plain old totalitarianism, a word that has been around for a long time.

What is truly important here is the description of the cooperation between the allegedly capitalist West and nominally communist China.

Chinese totalitarianism, Russian totalitarianism and Western corporate totalitarianism are merging to create global totalitarianism for the first time in human history (though many rulers have had this dream since the dawn of humankind). It is not inaccurate to call the situation global fascism.

I raise these points because the use of the term "McCommunism" and challenging "Chinese Communism" may further contribute to the hysterical red-baiting climate in the U.S.

There are many real and theoretical examples of successful democratic socialism (a form of communism) around the globe -- even in the U.S.

We have to be careful not to undermine them or feed into the general red-baiting habit.

Also, I think this may be a consequence of blogging, which often goes for the quick "sound bite." Certainly this is not a general characteristic of Ms. Klein's almost-always brilliant and down-to-earth writing and analysis.

I'm thinking of the original form of them in South Africa.

They are a money drain for the state. Companies might make a bit of lucre off of them, but for the state it's a money loser. A bit like the prison industry now seen in the usa, they might be operated by private companies, but the states still end up funneling much needed cash to prop up the prison industry.

Naomi, not to worry--Americans can multi-task! Besides keeping up with celebrity reproduction, we are totally informed on public policy; I bet at least 300 million have tuned out Rush briefly to read your post! Then, we are going to vote for the latest Great White (well, half white) Hope served up by the Democrats, a bastion of civil libertarians, so unlike those naughty Repubs. Both of which parties have wisely steered us away from wasting our votes on any little parties which might actually threaten effective change--it could rock our capsizing boat! Or we might vote McCain at the last minute; he knows how to win wars, and for sure will sucessfully finish Bush's war on the middle class. Anyway, we will have performed our civic duty for the next eight years, so what's the worry? Besides, an electoral governmental system has never been quickly transformed into a fascist, genocidal totalitarian military regime, never in history, right, since we can't remember any history, it never happened! You worry too much, Naomi!

BTW, while Mr. Nader may have had his investments in Cisco, who cisco contributes to is a more interesting question.

Go here, and type in Cisco under employer to search. http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.php

I just scanned the first page, and I don't see Mr. Nader's name on the list. But I sure see "Barack Obama", "Hillary Clinton" and several Republicans. Or, since in this area Obama, Clinton and the Republicans are all the same, I should just say a bunch of OTHER Republicans.

Vote Obama to have your very own US surveilence state. Or vote McCain, it doesn't make any difference on this issue. Bill Clinton was the same as Daddy Bush and Dubya on this issue too.

I think skippy is just arguing accounting. Who's books do the profits end up on? For a corporatist state, it makes no sense for the state to run a profit. That benefits no one they care about. In fact, by design, the state runs at a deficit in order to support corporate profits.

Sure, state money is spent on these camps. But that's just a way of taking tax money that should be used for everyone's benefit and instead using it in such a way that it creates profits on the corporate books.

It doesn't matter what you call it, it's coming to a neighbourhood near you.

"1984" is here. Orwell's dark predictions came true a couple of decades later then he thought.

samson;
It's true that a state doesn't need to run a profit, but if it runs a deficit too long the money made by the corporations becomes worthless paper.

I wasn't just arguing profits either, one of the reasons that Germany lost WWII was because they were killing people rather than using trains to carry supplies to the front lines.

Keep the television sets turned off of the Olympics for political reasons and ask others to do similarly. (And don't go watching the events on YouTube.com or other such sites either.)

susnow, I do get the point; everyone wants China to be in their own image of what it should be. If China needs to or wants to go through a period of population control or surveillance or a gussied-up trial presentation to the rest of the world for a few weeks even if it does involve the evil capitalism, then it will do so and our value critique of an ancient culture matters not. tj makes good points

China's industrial policy combining authoritarian control and cheap labor, both skilled and unskilled, has worked very well for them. Of course, with the flood of money entering China, there comes significant corruption; China is no different than other countries in this regard. If the authoritarian aspect can keep wages low while the country prospers, then money will continue to flow their direction. It will be interesting to see how long this approach lasts, i.e., when will Chinese workers tire of a suppressed standard of living compared to others? I don't see any major advantages for Chinese companies apart from the huge supply of cheap labor (again, both skilled and unskilled).

Don't watch tv period. Turn off the radio too. Buy or find the music you like and listen on an ipod or mediaplayer on your laptop or pc. You will be more free if you refuse to play their games and listen to their garbage. The Olympics are glorification of the few over the many for sports ability and have always been used for political purposes. Don't participate. Don't watch. You will be happier, healthier, and free.

redruby, why do you equate massive surveillance and repression of dissent with capitalism? Do you believe that in a free market, the citizens would choose these "services" from a government?

Naomi Klein is quite obviously cooperating with the neo-cons who bash China.

America is clearly much more repressive to its own citizens than China.

Anyone who doesn't see this is blinded by the MSM and the corporate government.

this is truly freightening.

"By the end of this year, police officials say, more than 100 cameras will have begun monitoring cars moving through Lower Manhattan... The Lower Manhattan Security Initiative, as the plan is called, will resemble London's so-called Ring of Steel..."

"According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country..."

"The NYPD's new firepower consists of cops with Mp5 submachine guns, rifles, body armor and bomb-sniffing dogs..."

"Privacy International filed a complaint with the Ontario Information and Privacy Commissioner's Office regarding the plans to implement 12,000 cameras across Toronto..."

"Los Angeles CCTV Camera Systems are now being installed..."

And we're worried about China, are we?...

Hey Samson,

You don't seem to be living in the real world here. We live in a flawed system in the USA. It's a two party system that's become quite dysfunctional. We don't have a parliamentary democracy where a minor party can get 6% of the vote and form a coalition with some other party and then help rule. Here in the USA we have a choice between two parties that are too alike in too many ways.

But there are differences!

Imagine what the world would look like if we were just finishing eight years of a Gore administration instead of the disaster that's been Bush/Cheney. Imagine Gore's two Supreme Court Justices sitting on the court right now instead of Roberts and Alito. Imagine an enlightened Gore energy policy. Kyoto might be ratified. No Iraq War. No civil liberties falling away...

So if you and others here who always bash the democratic party for being the same as the republican, continue your campaign to discredit Obama, and we end up with McCain, I hope you like the police state that we get when he solidifies the Bush agenda.

Naomi Klein missed the mark a bit when she dubbed China as "McCommunism," when a prior appellation is more accurate and indicative what is going on in most of the rest of East Asia: crony capitalism. Crony capitalism is a constant feature of authoritarian governments despite their stated political ideology, even communism (where the black market was dominated by party functionaries). Part of the psychosis of an authoritarian state is the need for "social harmony." This dovetails nicely with Chinese history and myth (see "Mandate of Heaven"). Simply put, the Chinese Communist Party is merely another dynasty like the Han, Manchu, & Sung: all that is different is the method of picking the figurehead.

Now the reason for Bush's visit to China becomes more apparent: to learn how it's done.

Naomi, you are a Goddess, Athena and Aphrodite combined. But then,

Nothing Exists.

in response to lisa3210peace's comment

"One Third of Ralph Nader's investments, millions of dollars, are invested in Cisco"

that may be the case, and i'm not defending him, but unless you keep all your money under you're mattress, your invested in corruption as well. Here's an interesting article:

http://www.alternet.org/environment/49657/your_bank_account_probably_supports_cluster_bombs_and_big_coal/

Wang Lung had won the victory over himself.
He loved Big Brother.

lisa3210peace, I have friends from/in China. If Obama's vision for the US is in keeping with your admiration for the quality of life in China, and the Democrat gets elected, good luck, you are going to need it. Love the Nader non sequitur by the way, not very subtle is it?

Published on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
China: Capitalism Doesn't Require Democracy
by Robert B. Reich

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0110-42.htm

Capitalism and freedom are not mutually exclusive.

boy, do we need marijuana in a big way...not because of all of the 'other' uses for it, although there are hundreds, but because of the wonderful, enlightened, magical and natural perspective the smoking of marijuana creates...we need a positive philosophical shift away from industrialization\consumption, and marijuana is key...we, all of us at the same time, need to get high...we need to get a perspective that has been physically, violently taken away from us...a perspective much more conducive to living in harmony with one another and the planet...we need to say no to cameras, no to surveillance...we need to do so before it's too late...cameras and data mining software work 24/7, just waiting and watching...forever! We need to remember that numbers of actual people are on our side...we've only been outnumbered by the automated system...we need to take our lives back, and smoking marijuana will help us see that, help us understand how we might work together to do it...soon, they won't even need anyone to call the police...they'll just show up, take you or your loved one or your neighbor away, and the street will go quiet again, and no one will ever know where you or anyone else went...the window of opportunity is closing...this is not environmentally related, this is human related...they have prepared weaponry\jails to support their cameras...why do they hate marijuana? because it is absolutely wonderful (unsurpassed) at raising the human consciousness and grows freely everywhere...many of you may disagree, but time is running out, so I must be vocal...

Does this mean that Unveiling Police State 3.0 will be Ms. Klein next write-up about the UK's use of drone planes to keep tabs on the Welsh, the Scots, the East Anglians, Londoners and both Ireland's the chosen and the unclean?

The question that is of uppermost interest to Americans is what right do its administrations have in policing the world from some 160 military bases scattered around the globe. Attempts at being cutesy in belaboring whose emperor is without clothes is highschoolish. Every state is primarely a police-like entity and policing it becomes a question of degree and based on historical events the only standard that determines whether the policing has become onerous or not is when a revolution takes place.

"U.S. companies have been barred from selling police equipment and technology to China"

Israel is the leader in this field BTW.

The hypocrisy on China is simply amazing. If we were to hold Olympics in the US today, WTF do you think security would look like?. We are doing all the same things China is doing anyways, and the rest of the world is following the US lead. The plan is by 2015, the police state will be global.

Naomi has lost her credibility.

MiMiCcs said it best...Naomi has lost her credibility. Deng Xiaoping said it better"

"It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice"..

MiMi,

I don't think it's fair to call the critics of China on this website hypocrites. Most folks on this site are VERY critical of US foreign and domestic policy.

To my knowledge nobody on this site is pro-amerian imperialism and anti-chinese imperialism.

Nobody is pro-American police state and anti-chinese police state.

Sure there is a question of degree, which we can debate. I tend to think China is worse on domestic policy than the US. In terms of numbers the US is worse internationally. At the same time chinese "communist" elites and american capitalist elites eat from the same trough.

So maybe there is hypocrisy on china by mainstream dems who have done nothing but support American imperialism and the illegal war/occupation. But lets have a civilized progressive conversation without the name calling.

P.S. Don't you thionk it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction to say, "Naomi has lost her credibility"?

MiMiCcs said it best…Naomi has lost her credibility. Deng Xiaoping said it better"

"It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice"..

Well, Lennon said,
If you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao,
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.

You and Mimi are embracing totalitarian thinking. (It seems like you'rs saying, "If you're against China you're pro-West & pro-capitalist."

"Through all the nasty news stories, however, the Chinese government has seemed amazingly unperturbed. That's because it is betting on this: when the opening ceremonies begin friday, you will instantly forget all that unpleasantness as your brain is zapped by the cultural/athletic/political extravaganza that is the Beijing Olympics."

No, Naomi, that's not the reason. That's what you would like us to think! The real reason is that the government knows that it has the support of the people, a fundamental fact that many in the west don't want to accept because they wish to continue to delude themselves that the Chinese are just waiting for the right moment to overthrow their government and welcome conquering western armies as they land on China a la Iraq.

Last month the left of centre New Republic ran an article on China demanding that "our ultimate solidarity" should lie not with the "odious government" in Beijing but "the billion long-suffering men and women of the world's largest dictatorship."

'Long-suffering'? Ummm, obviously they didn't bother to ask the Chinese about that. Especially when just recently a Pew world poll showed that 86% expressed happiness with their lives and the direction the country is going.

But their opinions don't seem to matter to these westerners. Why? Maybe it's because the Chinese are too stupid to know what's good for them. They need people like Klein and the New Republic to tell them...the way Bush is telling the Iraqis...

dubet: you equate smoking marijuana with non-violence?

No Way. That evil weed comes either from seeds, right? In which case the MALES are slaughtered at their first indication of SEXUAL PREFERENCE,

OR, cuttings are cloned, sliced from a young screaming bleeding female, sure she recovers,

And they all grow up, the memories of their men distant-THEN THEY TOO ARE MURDERED; pretty girls in their prime, virgins,

So that they can be dried out AND IMMOLATED!

dubet: that is pure violence.

Lisa3210 - I'm sorry for my outbust a cople of nights ago. It was not me speaking - you see I'm on pain meds for several pinched nerves in my upper back. I am very sorry, please forgive me. The doctor has lowered the dosage to 2400mg of mortin and two percs. It does the job but does not make me ctazy. no joke here - drugs are powerful and can make you do and say things without forsight and control. If its possible, please let me know that you accept my apology and we are OK. marc

Opps I forget - the doctor said not to mix with alchahol. I never listen to him. He yelled at me also and called my even worse names than you.

dubet:
You expressed yourself in an interesting manner.
The resistance to marijuana has been from a Byzantine alliance of far right Christians-big pharma-the "corrections" industry-and organized crime.
There must be hundreds of thousands in prison just for possession.What a horrible waste of lives and taxpayer dollars.
In my case-I'm 66 and suffer from numerous conditions including arthritis and depression.Were it not for the severe penalties involved-I'd be a frequent smoker.
Are our Canadian neighbors stupid?I think not.
I agree with you dubet-smoking puts most people into a gentler frame of mind-often leaning to creativity.A favorite memory was watching Sterling Hayden in his numerous interviews with Tom Snyder.He was a heavy smoker which didn't interfere one bit with his acting or writing.He did have a "verbal twitch" of saying "eh!" frequently-which probably pissed off the "law and order crowd" no end.

klever - 66 and depressed. Stop reading this sight and you will feel better - I promise.

marc m: Cute. Throw that stuff away and start smoking pot.

It is an analgesic, it kills pain, and helps one relax which helps pinched nerves.

Motrin alcohol and percocet suck. unless pureed in a blender together.

Back on topic: the Han Chinese have another "master race" thing going, it seems. These games remind me too much of the affair in Nazi Germany. The non-Han are equivalents of the Jews, gays, etc. of that era. The totalitarian thing is also what we are tending to in this country, but the Chinese are taking us to school right now.

Remarkable how few commenters seem to have understood Naomi's piece at all. Maybe if they'd read The Shock Doctrine they'd have a bigger context in which to place this big red flag on what's happening here. It's not just China, folks -- it's not just the U.S. -- it's global. Naomi is pointing at what the Chinese have on display for the world, and the implications speak for themselves. We're not in Kansas anymore. Forget substances, get to work directly on your minds. Naomi's appears to work extremely well.

JDK posted a link above to Robert Reich -- Capitalism doesn't require democracy. Americans don't understand this and need to learn it fast. China and Russia are both great examples of how capitalism can "succeed" without democracy.

And right now this is the difference between the Republican and Democratic parties. You all can complain about how the Democratic party lately has acceded too much to the Right, but a Dem president and a Dem majority in Congress will at least slow down the capitalism-sans-democracy process in the US.

A vote for the GOP is a vote for capitalism without democracy; fascism if you prefer. A vote for Nader is as good as a vote for McCain. And if you think that's OK; for example, you think that four years of McCain will finally teach the US voters the lesson they need to learn, you are fooling yourself: on the road to Police State 2.0, we're less than four years away from the point of no return.

lisa3210peace;

Maybe Nader does have a large investment in Cisco. No one is perfect.

With that said, Mr. Obama and his party of thugs are ready to continue the real ongoing murder of men, women and children.

I'll take Nader's not-so-best-side (if its true) over the continued murder by the thugs of your beloved candidate, your useless congress and your sorry-ass party, any day.

Po-leeeeeze!