I congratulate Matti,

His references and analysis of some here, who create more gas with their espousals than help in directions that people might take or think about for themselves to help this huge problem that has descended from our carbon-rich humanity poor atmosphere.
Joseph Stiglitz who writes here, an economist at Columbia University in New York, for those who don't know, writes about the economics of the Left and the Right in terms of the coming election in the USA and sums up the article, after an analyses of each with: it should not be difficult to decide.

It is as if he is speaking to a group of fellow thinkers who will decide the coming election, instead of some of the jocks who speaking from high and low places are trying to tell us there is a serious problem out there and up there. Or the people whose understanding of economics comes largely from stroking their own bank accounts and 401ks. His comments, although economically based and not environmentally driven, unfortunately, are at the very basis of the whether we have under two or four degrees of warming in the environment and so the end of your children and the future generations that will be subject to the ravages of climate changes. Lets forget about the arguments of the royal rich who make there fortunes by burning and selling the stuff

Climate change and the next election are inextricably linked. It is not about economics alone but is about an energy policy that relies on fossil fuel and other polluting sources of energy that prop-up the world economy, or a radical departure toward clean energy production and an inclusiveness of all in the global economy. To have as many people as possible who could contribute to change in this direction, as opposed to the top one percent who want a continuation of the status quo. Supported by Ted Turner CNN and the Wolf Blitzer kind of propaganda that wants a continuation of the status quo. NO, NO, NO, a radical re-thinking and re-making of the present economy away from special interests and the merchants of greed who have brought this country and the world to this low is absolutely necessary for human survival. The USA if it is to take the moral lead again has to show from example!

While the Democrats are the party of the little left turn, they do not represent the kind of thinking that will be required to change the future direction of climate change. To do that we must change the present and that means a global depression until everything is re-tooled. There are not many of sufficient courage on the political scene today, although Obama is the best of the worst, that will be able to move the global thinking processes to that direction.
The way we might all help, if there are those of you out there who really want to help, is rather than swinging through the trees that are disappearing and coming off the challenge put by Matti above, is to bring this awareness of these inextricably linked ideas to as many as possible. To help change public and media discussions in your place wherever that might be or contribute to what people are doing by tying the discussion of climate change to economic direction of the Western World. The leading polluting economy in the world is USA and Wall Street. Its pollution has just been eclipsed by China, is there any wonder that the Olympics is taking place in China?

This is not a bashing of capitalism, no no heaven forbid, the sacred cow of the America, this is an assessment of an economy based in a (killer) economic reality that puts profit above humanities survival.
As far as my own efforts and credentials to speak to this subject I do all I say above politically and I am making a documentary dealing with this subject. Its time for some here to stop taking up the endless arguments and do some things themselves.

I was about to stop writing here on this post until I read your submission. Please tell me if you would, how your point of view and efforts here will in any way effect the change in directions that must occur within the next seven to ten years?
The left leaning group of thinkers here are the aged, as you note, congratulating the Hippie movement of the sixties. The USA is a country where age and wisdom are passed by for the "cool" tattooed and scarified brains, of the new millennium.
The present choice of candidates and parties in the upcoming US election fronts a cast of characters that appear to represent an array of thinking that reflects the Hollywood billboards from a country that contributes the greatest amount of the greenhouse gasses.
The best "green" political mind in combination with Hollywood created a powerpoint presentation that was pro-business and cap and trade when produced and simply delayed the necessary global disaster dialogue now taking place by an additional four years. the entire cap and trade policy was flawed from the outset, as I pointed out repeatedly since Rio 92 and after Kyoto, that the idea of trading carbon emissions is equal to the UK Stern Report which blithely talks about five and six degrees of warming and its effect on the economy if we do not act "quickly" to achieve a so called, "soft economic landing".
With this Jurassic thinking in mind and prevalent on the western world,' Americanized, globalized economic landscape, a system of trading that was obsolete to begin with and supported by these bastions of Greed, imperialism, and neo-colonialist thinking, the World Bank and the IMF, there never was a chance to deal with this globalized environmental crisis soon enough.
The window to deal with it diminishes by the day as we watch aghast as the DNC, and the RNC draft their political planks of the platform to be put forward and walked upon by the standard bearers in the next American political farce. These planks, of course dealing politically with the greatest crisis humanity has faced since the dawn of civilization. Brought forth as a great boon to civilized thinking!
I watched the self-satisfied smirks of the drafters of these great words and [thoughts, (how much I would enjoyed and thought appropriate seeing the flooding slowly rising in the convention hall as the final approval was being given to final version of the platform that will be floating downstream very soon.
Joseph Stiglitz who writes here, an economist at Columbia University in New York, for those who don't know, writes about the economics of the Left and the Right in terms of the coming election in the USA and sums his article, after an analyses of each with: it should not be difficult to decide.
It is as if he is speaking to a group of fellow thinkers who will decide the coming election, instead of some of the jocks who speaking from high and low places are trying to tell us there is a serious problem out there and up there. Or the people whose understanding of economics comes largely from stroking their own bank accounts and 401 k's. His comments, although economically based are not environmentally driven, unfortunately, are at the very basis of the whether we have under two or four degrees of warming in the environment and so the end of your children and the future generations who will be subject to the ravages of climate changes. Lets forget about the arguments of the royal rich who make there fortunes by burning and selling all of the fossil fuel extracts.
Climate change and the next election are inextricably linked. It is not about economics alone but is about an energy policy that relies on fossil fuel and other polluting sources of energy that prop-up the world economy, or a radical departure toward clean energy production and an inclusiveness of all in the global economy, that would require a quit "Cold Turkey" to renewable and the global depression to attain the crash program necessary. I have been writing about this for months and this is the direction of my work!
To have as many people as possible who could contribute to change in this direction, support this necessity given the closing window of climate TO: Martin Schonfeld
change and we do not have 50 years to do it!!! This idea opposed to the top one percent who want a continuation of the status quo; supported by Ted Turner CNN and the Wolf Blitzer kind of propaganda that wants a continuation of this made in America and the UK, thinking!
NO, NO, NO, a radical re-thinking and re-making of the present global economy away from special interests and the merchants of greed who have brought this country and the world to this low is absolutely necessary for human survival. The USA if it is to take the moral lead again as we hear these days, such a laugh, has to show from example!
While the Democrats are the party of the "little left turn," they do not represent the kind of thinking that will be required to change the future direction of climate change. To do that we must radically reshape the present that means a global depression, until everything is re-tooled. There are not many of sufficient courage on the political will on the world scene today, although Obama is the best of the worst, that will be able to move the global thinking processes to that direction.
So, my ex-hippie thinker while I like what you say, action is the necessary "as they came in through the (closing climate) bathroom window attracted by a silver spoon"

Patrick: Do you have a mind of your own? Are you capable of analytical thinking? Are you able to process data? The author is 19 and therefore what? Funded by the oil companies and therefore false? You are way out of your depth. Try thinking about it. If you can. Refute. If you can.... but you cannot. You never can, you just parrot others and insult people who seem much more aware than you.

MOUSE: Inspired post, although I have to admit, I'm more apt to turn in my Buddhist robes for those of an Old Testament Prophet when it comes to the prospect of showing compassion for the likes of Bush/Condi/Cheney and their neo con enablers and tag team members. Then again, the Buddhists certainly understand there is a place for compassion, as well as application of the Law of Karma. Too many died, suffered, lost, or were forced into lives of not always quiet desperation by these persons... of course they never should have been allowed power in the first place, but I'll leave that discussion to the political heavyweights who contribute to this site.

I really appreciate the comments by Inanna and others above about the qualitative difference between "fighting" and "changing" as they apply to many facets of modern life. I suspect that a fundamental key to many of our political and environmental issues is human spirituality. Many humans seem to be awakening from the numb slumber of immature materialism and applying their personal energies in ways more closely aligned with their their spiritual core. This is a far greater concept than "consuming less" or "conserving petrol" to "ease the environmental crisis." I believe that by being more in tune and present with the earth we actually help facilitate her healing.

These concepts are not just hippie mumbo jumbo or fanciful trips of the imagination. Studies show that water's shape and liveliness are directly influenced by the consciousness of living beings nearby, and that the water remembers and carries these influences with it downstream. Hopefully science and awareness can continue to bloom as long as humanity survives, but to do that they must be open to shifting paradigms as new data becomes available. The Electric Universe theory is a perfect contemporary example of science's inertia holding it back from understanding the true nature of it's own observations - by being a little too certain it "already has the story pretty much right."

Sometimes a little off is a lot off, and just like science, soon to overwhelmed by the evidence and forced to admit some long overdue concepts into its canon - maybe we as individuals should show a little less hubris in the world and just test the concept. Instead of worrying about overseeing institutionalized reforms on society and it's fossil fuel consumption, maybe just ride your bike and bask in the sunshine and give blessings of health and life to the land and water, not to mention yourself.

Maybe the Earth is warming because of petroleum usage and modern technological environmental stresses. Maybe the Earth is warming because the Sun and entire solar system are changing dramatically as we approach 2012, affecting the magnetic fields and raising the Schumann resonance of the planet. More likely both. And I believe that living in harmony and replenishing the vibrational and spiritual systems of the Earth are every bit as important as not materially contributing to environmental pollution on the gross physical plane.

Maybe this idea even extends to feeling compassion rather than hatred for deceptive political leaders, war criminals and those who hide in the shadows behind them. Perhaps it's less important in the long run whether such types are in jail cells or limousines, and the far more important thing is the placement of our own hearts, energy and attention. If their actions turn you into a hater, haven't their ideas in fact won? And if crimes of such massive depravity fail to rob you of your own humanity, haven't you?

Just a simple idea from a fellow mammal.

Scary? This ain't scary....you want a real thrill, read 'Bottomfeeder' by Taras Grescoe. He lays out what we've done to the ocean....pretty much 'harvesting' without doing a thing to leave or put anything back. According to this book, we've eaten ourselves right down to the bottom of the food chain. Next course? Long Pig...My fat Republican neighbors are a-lookin pretty tasty -grin-

Veteran '66-68

I suppose that depends upon who the scientists are that would determne that analysis ~SIGURDUR11~. Just because you say he is giving correct scientific evidence does not make it so.

Personally, I'll go along with the thousand + of credible scientists, who have spent their lives studying the Climate, atmosphere, and enviroment, who state with emphisis that this guy and those like him are decieving nut-cases.

If you want to go aong with the nut-cases and those like ~MIMICCS~ who is a ~Lyndon LaRouche~ follower and keep posting such conflicting bull here, those whom are funded by big oil, knock yourself out. Your credibilty is lower than whale shit however.

Kem:
That fellow did a good job of writing and there isn't anything in his writing that is scientifically wrong. It has been agreed for some time now that co2 lags temps by about 800 years, give or take 50. That is according to ice core data, if that can be considered reliable.

Hope you are having a good day. It is rather cool here. Feels more like early Sept than early Aug.

Interesting comments: INANNA, EARTHIAN, WEB WALK & MOTHER NATURE.

I'm glad to see some bring a spiritual perspective into the forum. The higher understanding does not preclude the call and cause to actual positive actions or campaigns for social change. These can be seen as complimentary forces.

BTW, That link MIMICCS posted and the other deniers support? That outfit is funded by oil companies and the writer is a 19 year old political science student.

Climate change alarmism is what happens when one part of the intelligensia (the humanists) know nothing about hard science, and therefore can't judge pseudo-science when they see it. I blame the schools. Here's one example: a quantity, 'A', that is highly correlated with another quantity,'B', yet that lags behind quantity 'B' by 800 years cannot be the cause of quantity 'B'. In this case 'A' = atmospheric CO2 levels, 'B' = average global temperature.

ArbeitMachtFrei August 8th, 2008 12:19 am

"Freud said that human beings have a Death Wish."

Freud was a psycophantic control freak, as was his daughter and nephew (the master controller, Edward Bernays).

Don't believe this death wish shit - it's just a result of fear, which the controlling class plays like a deck of cards.

Cuts me to the quick Kem does.

Attempting to step into the viewpoint of Mother Earth (Gaia) for a minute:

"The human species among all of My species is the most clever and innovative. But your cancerous-type growth and harmful pollution threaten to make our cleverist species into a toxic infestation to the Community of Life on Earth. I have an immune system. I can change so drastically so as to stop the human infestation. I'm in the process of having a "temperature" so to speak. That should stop the infestation. You are clever enough as a species to figure this out. If you can act soon enough, you can stop the infestation yourselves, end the pollution, and take your place among the other members of the Community of Life and live for the long term. If you do, your civilization can endure. And you can seed the galaxy with life. And if you don't choose to act soon enough, I will, and civilization will end, while life will continue. Bacteria are the base of the Community, and the Community will return. The choice is yours. One way or another I will persist. Don't fool with Mother Nature. I am in charge. You are not."

why isn't everyone running around screaming ???

it is going away ... all of it ... and the fool is in China daring to criticise the Chinese about religious freedom??????????????

the atmosphere has no time lapse ... it is happening now ... and all they care about is that Congress took too much power away from the president in the 1970's ??????

without a breathable atmosphere there is no religion, there is no President, there will be a planet different than the one we know, wouldn't you agree ???

who cares about black and white and brown and yellow ....... stop messing about ... the common enemy exists ... it is us .............

Arch enemy?? Thanks for the warning and your INANE, detracting comments here ~ANN~. Give yourself a cookie. very young and uneducated Children enjoy that type of a reward, even when they may be very immature.

Climate change and global warming are two totally seperate, but are closely related issues ~SIGUDUR~ and you know that, or you should. Intelligent, educated on the issue people are.

Quite frankly, I think that I've seen enough of the world. People don't impress me. I hope that when I die that I go to a better place.

Maybe the answer is not metaphorically to try to stick our collective finger in the rupturing dam? Maybe the answer is to accelerate the process of destruction?

Freud said that human beings have a Death Wish. Maybe we should tap into this Death Wish (e.g. The Rapture) and just push all this shit over the edge and hope that the world remakes itself in a few thousand years?

Fram:
Going to get that fur lined jacket so you can stay warm are ya?
MiMi.....great article.....everyone should read it. Right now in ND our average night time low is running about 12 degrees below historical norms. Last night it got to 46....that is only 14 degrees above freezing...or calamity....whichever way you want to look at it.

Wish people would dig a little deeper. It is beginning to appear more and more so that co2 is not the climate driver that some think it is.

To my archenemy KEM PATRICK August 7th, 2008 11:34 pm

The Pot by Tool

Who are you to wave your finger?
Ya' must have been out your head.
Eye hole deep in muddy waters.
You practically raised the dead.

Rob the grave, to snow the cradle.
Then burn the evidence down.
Soapbox, house of cards, and glass,
So don't go tossin' your stones around.

You must have been high.
You must have been high.
You must have been.

Foot in mouth, and head up asshole.
Whatcha talkin' 'bout?
Difficult to dance 'round this one
'til you pull it out, boy!

You must have been, so high.
You must have been, so high.

Steal, borrow, refer, save your shady inference.
kangaroo done hung the juror with the innocent.

Now you're weeping shades of cozened indigo
Got lemon juice up in your...EYE!

When you pissed all over my black kettle
You must have been HIGH, HIGH
You must have been HIGH, HIGH

Who are you to wave your finger?
So full of it.
Eyeballs deep in muddy waters
Fückin' hypocrite.

Liar, lawyer, mirror, show me. What's the difference?
kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent.

NOW!!
You'll weep or, change the cozened indigo.
Got lemon juice up in your high eye.
When you pissed all over my black kettle
You musta been!

So who are you to wave your finger?
Who are you to wave your fatty finger at me?
You must, have been, out your, mind!

Weepin' shades of indigo
Shed without a reason
Weepin' shades of indigo

Liar, lawyer,
Mirror for ya,
What's the difference?
kangaroo be stoned
He's guilty as the government

NOW!!
Will you weep or, change the cozened indigo
Got lemon juice up in your, EYE!!
EYE!!

Now when you pissed all over my black kettle.
You musta been HIGH, HIGH, HIGH, HIGH.
Eyeballs deep in muddy waters
Your balls deep in muddy waters.
Ganja, pLEASE. . ., you must have been out your MIND!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2F_hGwD26g

Let's face it. The world is headed for some deep doo doo. Nobody is going to get serious about climate change until it really starts to hurt. By then it will be too late. The momentum of the forces that have been set in motion will see to that. Mankind is like the proverbial frog who is comfortably sitting in a pot of tepid water placed on a hot stove -- no problem. Oh yeah? We're gonna get cooked. (Actually, the world will be just fine. It will do what comes naturally. It's the living things that might have a problem.)

It is truly a shame that an isssue of such importance, gets such inane comments that have been posted here.

marc melchiori-You showed up a while ago whining about how much you loved your country and how you couldn't understand all the angst and negativity on this site. Now you periodically appear to shower us with your vile observations of a reality seen from the pig shit pits of Kentucky. Why not return whence you came? Instead of wishing death upon any of our hapless posters, do the world a favor, and practice on yourself.

webwalk,

Yes, the battle is never ending. How to keep aware, alert, awake, active, and still spiritually balanced.

I do see that you were not necessarily personal with your comments and I answered for all of us who are on a spiritual path. Some people I meet, including my own family, see me as negative as well.....simply because I try to "name" reality.

mother nature, you are right! This is why I believe we need to awaken now! We need to evolve to go with HER flow.

And thank you webwalk, for the blessing.

Another for
marc melchiori August 7th, 2008 10:21 pm

46 & 2 by Tool

Journey my...
Journey my child
You need to be taken through
No more chance

My shadow's
Shedding skin
I've been picking
Scabs again
I'm down
Digging through
My old muscles
Looking for a clue

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been
I've been wallowing in my own confused
And insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in
I wanna feel the changes coming down
I wanna know what I've been hiding in

My shadow
my shadow
Change is coming through my shadow
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again

Journey my...
Journey my child
You need to be shoved through
Closer to me

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic
Insecure delusion
I wanna feel the change consume me
Feel the outside turning in
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured in

My shadow
my shadow
Change is coming
Now is my time
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through

See my shadow changing
Stretching up and over me
Soften this old armor
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow
Coming out the other side
Stepping through the shadow
Forty six and two are just ahead of me

Stinkfist - i could go on with this one for hours - but I'll let you off the hook. it's a good thing your not gonna reproduce - most Dr.'s suggest the retarded don't.

A special bonus for
marc melchiori August 7th, 2008 9:46 pm

Stinkfist by Tool,

Something has to change
Undeniable dilemma
Boredom's not a burden anyone should bear
Constant over-stimulation numbs me but I would not want you any other way

Just not enough, I need more
Nothing seems to satisfy
I said I don't want it, I just need it to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive

Finger deep within the borderline
Show me that you love me and that we belong together
Relax, turn around and take my hand

I can help you change tired moments into pleasure
Say the word and we'll be well upon our way
Blend and balance
Pain and comfort deep within you 'til you will not want me any other way

But it's not enough, I need more
Nothing seems to satisfy
I said I don't want it, I just need it to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive

Knuckle deep inside the borderline
This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to
Relax, slip away

Something kind of sad about the way that things have come to be, desensitized to everything
What became of subtlety?

How can this mean anything to me if I really don't feel anything at all?

I'll keep digging 'tiI I feel something

Elbow deep inside the borderline
Show me that you love me and that we belong together
Shoulder deep within the borderline
Relax, turn around and take my hand

System and Environment

Thermodynamics has a saying:
'Every system shall fall
towards its environment.'
So one must view, in health,
Ones environment,
To divine ones direction.

Yet something there is for free will:
The environment that pulls
Is not the same one falls toward.
That environment remains
In an undiscovered country,
fashioned, in part,
By ones own hands.

There is the house,
And there is the location.
This location will change your world-view,
But,
Not until you build the house.

DRAGONSLAYER said: "It just hit me; I just figured out why extra-terrestrials have been buzzing around Earth for so many years…they want to witness and document the death of Earth, both for anthropological purposes and for their history. What they learn as we wreck our planet will be used to help them preserve theirs"

I want to believe [X-files]....

What you want some money for those razors? I don't get it.

This one is for
marc melchiori August 7th, 2008 9:12 pm
marc melchiori August 7th, 2008 9:21 pm

Ænema by Tool,

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.
It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks
Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this
Stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit.
One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.
(Learn to swim).
Mom's gonna fix it all soon.
Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be.

(Learn to swim).

Fuck L Ron Hubbard and
Fuck all his clones.
Fuck all those gun-toting
Hip gangster wannabes.
(Learn to swim).
Fuck retro anything.
Fuck your tattoos.
Fuck all you junkies and
Fuck your short memory.
(Learn to swim).
Fuck smiley glad-hands
With hidden agendas.
Fuck these dysfunctional,
Insecure actresses.
(Learn to swim).

'cause I'm praying for rain
And I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.
I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.
I wanna see it all come down.
put it down.
suck it down.
flush it down.

Ann R key - if it's that bad I'll pay to have your female parts removed so you can't ever reproduce - but why bother I can tell no man would want to be "with" you ("with" meaning birds and bees honey buns). God, I can picture the unshaven pits and the potato sack dress the smell of body odor ...... anywho... Uh, where was I... Oh yeah, if its realy that bad how about you end it tonight. Try shaving your legs and I'm sure you will bleed to death trying to get through that thicket. The way I figure it, the less you folks breed the greater chance at survival we humans have.

oh by the way, your gonna need a job and some $$$$ for those razors - so FIND EMPLOYMENT! Love ya, sweety. yours forever, marc

"How can we say we care about our kids or our grandchildren if we just go about business as usual."

Dave,

I think we have to challenge all assumptions.

Do people who really care about their kids and grandchildren just keep going about business as usual? If the answer is no, then isn't our assumption about ourselves wrong?

People who care about their children make sacrifices - sometimes very painful sacrifices. People who care about their children will forgo things that may give them gratification and happiness in order that their children have what they need. That is the essence of caring, of love.

We are of a strange culture. Ours puts the immediate in front of long-term. Ours puts gratification ahead of sacrifice. Ours puts fear above hope and faith.

I wonder it we can learn from those who don't do that. I have hope that we can. And, I care for my children.

I guess I'm of the wrong culture...but I've known that for a long time.

Jeez MIMICcS you are a fool - get with the times, man!

I escaped my consensus and I believe in climate change. I frequently change my climate indoors from cool in the summer to warm in the winter by a small device known as a thermostat. If you don't believe in climate change your a fool and a heretic. torquemada of castille will come visit you in the dead of night.

Those looking to escape the consensus reality that we are all doomed, may go here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9763

It just hit me; I just figured out why extra-terrestrials have been buzzing around Earth for so many years...they want to witness and document the death of Earth, both for anthropological purposes and for their history. What they learn as we wreck our planet will be used to help them preserve theirs..and just maybe they will intervene, before Earth becomes hopeless, to show us how to save our planet.

There was an unprecedented worldwide protest against the invasion of Iraq. . .before the invasion. It too was a deadly serious issue. Anyone think the government really cares about this issue? Actually, they do care as long as there's a buck to be made. Which indeed there is. The rich will get richer and the middle class will pay for whatever remedies they decide are doable.

Anyone that thinks they should keep on breeding knowing the seriousness of this matter is either brain damaged, stupid or totally ignorant as to just how deadly serious the issue could very well be.

Mother Nature runs the universe, not man. Man continues to be greedy and take until things get so bad that they can't stand it any more and are forced in the right direction.
like the chinese who were so overpopulated, leading to such miserable living, that they agreed to have only one child per family to get out of the horrible mess. Mother
Nature lets things change, forcing life to struggle adapt and adjust, or die. The only true direction for me comes from mother nature and she is preparing me to operate
off the grid, the dollar, expensive living, dependent existence, now having nomadic ability to move, etc. Man will just let things get worse and worse, and direct himself
into oblivion, like Easter Island. Listen to man and that is where you will be. Listen to Mother Nature and begin on the road to the future.

Inanna,

Thanks for your thoughtful further explanation, sorry i snapped at you.

i too want to have a healthy psyche. i also believe sometimes people use their desire for personal health as a defensive block against perceiving what is actually happening in the world, which then allows the processes that are disrupting the living Earth to grow. i struggle to keep my senses and my mind open to the reality of what is happening, despite its perhaps detrimental effect on my personal health, because i think the effect of closing off my mind to this reality only serves to enable further degradation of the larger systems that i am part of.

(i hope you see that i am not necessarily specifically focusing my reasoning at you, who i obviously hardly know, but i am giving you some background that may help explain my reaction to what you wrote...)

It's a hard thing to balance, and i do tend as an individual to try to err on the side of maintaining focus on the larger systems and processes that i am part of. Lots of people experience me as "negative" and i try to appreciate that, but i usually understand this as being more about the world we share than about "me". If i live in a world going mad, how do i represent my experience of this world to others? i think, as openly and straightforwardly as i can manage.

i think a "spiritual awakening", if i thought in such terms, would enable me to maintain my awareness of this mad world, and my engagement in shared efforts to change course. Bless you on your path as well!

Change will occur inspite of the media, the arrayed special interests in the coal, oil and gas industries. But it will require resoluteness and not giving into compromise or despair. I love a good fight. Dive in anyone?

webwalk,

I've read your posts on the other thread: "Prepare for Catastrophic Impact." There is nothing in your posts that I disagree with. Some of the ways you espouse on "how to fight" are actually good ways on "how to live." I like your thinking process.

I have spent a number of years "fighting" the system in various ways....i.e., protests, letters, vigils, canvassing, talking, reading and reporting, joining organizations for change, and nothing much has changed EXCEPT the level of awareness to the reality of global warming and possible catastrophe. Each individual must awake to the realization of how living their lives in a different way can impact the world. We all must find that way individually first. The powers that be are in place now and they will not stop their momentum toward the destruction of the planet until or unless a sea change of counter energy brakes their movement. That energy cannot come from "fighting" but must come from "changing."

One thing I KNOW....when something threatens to harm me, my body reacts even before my mind can determine where the harm is coming from. Before I can even "think," my adrenalin is pumping. When I read these posts month after month, my body picks up the fear level, the powerlessness, the negative energy, and deducts that there is nothing that can be done by me personally to change anything. I know that because I have tried to DO something but have found that the result is like a drop of water on the Sahara Desert. Yes, awareness is greater, but what is changing in the places of power? They know something that we don't. Therefore, if I cannot change the powers that be, I can change myself. I don't advocate sitting still or sitting back. I advocate bringing peace to my soul. Projecting peace to my neighbor. Acting in peace in my world. Moving toward peace and away from war. That means also, being less of a consumer, as you advocate, and expending my energy in a positive direction for the good of life rather then in a negative direction to the detriment of the soul and detriment of a clear conscience. Am I doing all this now? No. I am moving toward it....and that is all I can do.

I no longer wish to harm my own psyche by allowing negative thoughts and emotions to ruin my remaining life and diminish the light by which my spirit projects into my world. I'm not talking here about a "faith based system." I am talking about a spiritual awakening. I would not have called it "New Age" thinking, but maybe it is? I would have said it is an awakening and awareness of the "Mother" side of life, not only the "Father" side of life. Balance rather then extremism. I've been traveling in this direction for awhile....it is a hard won peace that I speak of. Bless you on your path webwalk.

Dave and Kem,

People just do not want to believe what is happening as we begin to live in what Richard Heinberg calls a "Peak Everything" world.

Dave, our presidential election Spectacle, and all the inane commentary from our over-paid media whores that goes with it - is so pathetically immature and ridiculous that just watching an hour of it often makes me ill and depressed.

GwNorth August 7th, 2008 3:43 pm
Soon denial will be a dried up river in Egypt.

That was great!

Inanna,

i think your view of what our governments know is correct - everyone should Google the CIA and Pentagon reports (written a few years back) on what the world will look like in 2020, they both acknowledge climate change as a major disruptor and are actively preparing to be the CIA and the Pentagon in THAT world.

But, your New Age reduction of our responsibility to karma and reincarnation is absurd. i suppose your belief system helps you cope, but the FACT is you don't actually KNOW what you are talking about.

And we also do not actually KNOW how the human future on Earth is going to play out, so i encourage everyone to engage these problems and "fight the powers that be" over climate change and other crises.

Please see the thread on today's other CD climate-change article "Prepare for Catastrophic Impact" for further analysis of how we fight and how we live.

Soon denial will be a dried up river in Egypt.

PK

Does anyone really believe that there is a chance to change our planet back to what it was a generation ago? We have gone too far and more then likely, natural, predictable planetary changes are part of the global warming equation. Together these two things have already crossed the point of no return. I believe the governments of the world are already privy to this fact and especially our own government, and that is why they have been distracting us with all the chaos and wars and rumors of wars, etc. They are reaping the planet now so they can have the funds to take care of themselves in whatever way they have determined will gain them time. We have only one option now.

How we elevate our consciousness will determine how we die. How we die will determine where we then begin again.

Don't waste your time in bitter reprisals or fight the powers that be. It is a losing battle. Instead, focus all that beautiful human creativity on a new way to live now! As Jewel says: "No longer lend your strength to that which you wish to be free from."

Your extensive up to date methane forecast is the sixth comment down under the "Prepare for Catastrophic Impact" story. It's a bit too long to re-post here. Unlike the dedicated eco-trashing crew, I do not waste Common Dreams's comments area with repetitious arguments.

Anyone that thinks this subject is not serious and brushes it off, or ignores, or denies it is a fact, is either brain damaged, stupid, obtuse, or totally ignorant as to just how DEADLY serious the issue actually is.

If any have young children, or grand children and truly love them and desire that they have any hope for a future, they should be fighting to have our world leaders fight the "global warming" issue, which is the cause of "climate change and they are two seperate but closely related subjects.

"Climate change will just have to get in line behind gay marriage and abstinence only. Where are your priorities?!"

Outstanding!!

I'm trying to think of what other animal will deliberately befoul food, after having had their fill, so no other animal can partake of the remains? Anyone?

Lynas is absolutely correct, and in fact, his book goes on to talk about what happens in the event of a five or six-degree celsius increase in temperatures, and you don't even want to read it, it's so scary.

What I fail to understand is how we as a species--supposedly blessed (or cursed) with self-awareness and the seemingly unique ability to think and plan ahead--cannot see that this is a predictable and yet possibly avoidable catastrophe for which urgent early action is imperative.

How can we say we care about our kids or our grandchildren if we just go about business as usual. It doesn't make much sense to slave to send your kids to college, if in the end there will be no jobs for them and no life for their grandchildren.

We're looking ahead to deadly wars over water, lebensraum, food, and ultimately to possible extinction, within perhaps the lifetime of our children or grandchildren, and what are we talking about in our presidential campaign? Offshore drilling? Rebuilding bridges? When to exit Iraq? Whether to invade Iran.

This is insane.

Dave Lindorff
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net

Climate change will just have to get in line behind gay marriage and abstinence only. Where are your priorities?!