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TechnoratiDoubts About Anthrax Story
Survivors of the 2001 anthrax attacks and relatives of those killed by the deadly powder said yesterday that they want a full accounting from the FBI of its investigation to date, and they are not yet convinced that Bruce Ivins, the government scientist who killed himself last week, was responsible.
Federal authorities are expected to meet this week with the victims' families in Washington to discuss their investigation, after which the FBI could close its nearly seven-year-old anthrax case and publicly release its findings. But with reports emerging that the case against Ivins is largely circumstantial, some wonder if real closure will ever come.
"I don't know whether this is the right person or not," said Maureen Stevens, the widow of Robert Stevens, a photo editor at the Sun, a supermarket tabloid, who was the first killed in the fall 2001 attacks. Stevens said she has gone to Washington twice before for meetings, but nothing came of them. She said she received an e-mail from the FBI informing her of this week's meeting.
"I don't know if we'll hear anything from them that will convince me that they've gotten to the bottom of it," Stevens said.
Ivins died last Tuesday after federal investigators had spent a year watching his house near Fort Detrick in Frederick, following him, and interviewing him and his colleagues at the U.S Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases. Ivins' lawyer has said the scientist was innocent.
"I think he's a convenient fall guy. They can say, 'OK, we found him, case closed, we're going home,'" said Dr. Kenneth W. Hedlund, the former chief of bacteriology at Fort Detrick who hired Ivins. "The FBI apparently applied a lot of pressure to all the investigators there [at Detrick], and they found the weakest link."
The FBI has not yet said how it was able to connect Ivins to the attacks.
But the Los Angeles Times and Wall Street Journal, relying in part on unnamed sources, reported that investigators employing new technology were able to find a genetic link between the specific anthrax strain recovered from the letters and the bodies of victims and the one found in an office and other "nonlaboratory space" where Ivins worked in 2001.
The New York Times reported that investigators intensively questioned his children, Andrew and Amanda, now both 24. One former colleague, Dr. W. Russell Byrne, said the agents pressed Ivins' daughter repeatedly to acknowledge that her father was involved in the attacks.
"It was not an interview," Byrne said. "It was a frank attempt at intimidation."
Byrne said he believed Ivins was singled out partly because of his personal weaknesses. "If they had real evidence on him, why did they not just arrest him?"
The Associated Press, quoting unnamed government sources, reported yesterday that Ivins had a lengthy obsession with the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority, which has a chapter house near the Princeton, N.J., mailbox from which the anthrax letters were sent. However, the report says the FBI can't place Ivins in Princeton the day the letters were mailed.
Hedlund said Ivins was a bacteriologist and lacked the expertise to convert the anthrax into the deadly form that was used in the 2001 mailings to government offices and newsrooms.
Rep. Rush Holt, who represents the central New Jersey district where the anthrax letters were mailed, said circumstantial evidence is not enough, especially after the series of mistakes made in this case. The FBI spent years investigating Steven J. Hatfill, another scientist who worked in the same lab as Ivins. The government recently agreed to pay a $5.82 million settlement to Hatfill.
Holt sent a letter to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III asking that Mueller appear before Congress to provide an account of the investigation.
"One of the reasons they need to lay this out is so that the public can be confident that they are protected," Holt, a Democrat, said in an interview yesterday. "The post office workers, the general public, the local police - they are all owed an explanation. They would like to have closure."
David Hose, 65, contracted anthrax while working at a mail facility in Sterling, Va. He said he didn't believe Ivins was responsible for the attacks, nor does he have any faith in the FBI's ability to close the case.
"They just mumble and bumble around," he said. "It's like a TV show."
Sun reporter Frank Roylance contributed to this article.
© Copyright © 2008, The Baltimore Sun
28 Comments so far
Show AllSure, maybe he committed suicide, or maybe not. But there's no compelling evidence indicating that he masterminded the anthrax poisonings. Quite the opposite in fact.
It would be interesting to take a poll to see how many people are buying the story the "authorities" are selling.
What do we do? That's a good question. The Western male school of thought tends to prescribe action, preferably swift and decisive. But maybe thousands of people reading this story and rolling their eyes in disbelief is enough for now?
How many people believe today who believed yesterday, let alone eight years ago or forty years ago? The audience is getting restless, an increasingly large minority of the audience can see the strings and know how the trick is done. Some may opt for rotten tomatoes, but most just won't line up for the ticket in the first place.
Blame the guy. He "commits suicide". He can't be questioned about whether he was ordered to do anything and by whom. Case closed.
When in the course of human events...let me see ...we don't trust or believe the government (politicians) any longer, they have broken with the Constitution (across the board, as well as the aisle) Corruption, deaths, disappearances (of people and the rule of law) torture, harassment, theft, lies etc. etc. etc.
at what point is enough enough ?
Like Scarlett in gone with the wind I'll worry about that tomorrow, yes tomorrow for tomorrow is another day? What might you be willing to do then or is it just convenient that tomorrow never comes.
What truly are you willing to do? When a system is so corrupted that it no longer functions as it is meant too...what do you do?
More twisted lies from our psychopathic government to cover the crimes of those in Washington DC who were behind both 911 and the subsequent anthrax attacks and a horrific host of other international crimes for which they, once outed, should hang from the neck until dead. One day I hope to not feel shame when I tell people I am an American, but that day is not today.
During another reign of fascism, in the twentieth century, there circulated a short quiz among the intellectuals of Italy. It went something like this: What is the difference between Fascism & Christianity?
In Christianity one man sacrifices himself for all. In Fascism all men sacrifice themselves for one.
And now in the twenty first century, we all sacrifice for the bobble head of the govorporation. Actually, we are sacrificing & suffering, but not by choice. When all tentacles of the govorporation vie for dollars, each suction cup on the tentacle will do whatever is necessary to gain control of more dollars. If it means poisoning some people to divert dollars, so be it. If it means scaring the shit out of the populace to divert dollars to the Department of Offense, so be it. If it means invading another nation to divert dollars to subcontractors, so be it.
Welcome to the vortex of the United States Govorporation. See you at the bottom.
"I think he's a convenient fall guy. They can say, 'OK, we found him, case closed, we're going home,'" said Dr. Kenneth W. Hedlund, the former chief of bacteriology at Fort Detrick who hired Ivins. "The FBI apparently applied a lot of pressure to all the investigators there [at Detrick], and they found the weakest link."The FBI has not yet said how it was able to connect Ivins to the attacks.
That was my first gut feeling to the new report...sounded like they were waiting for someone to die, then blame them....
The reality is, if you put this story together with the recent relevations of the Bushies using CIA created forged documents to "prove" Iraq had WMD..then the indentity of the real culprits becomes very clear.
Tumbleweed, I am afraid that it is too consistent to be incompetence. I think they have achieved exactly what they wanted. If it seems like incompetence and bumbling, it is easier to excuse. The task has been completed. "Mission accomplished!"
We the People have lost our freedom, our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We are learning to accept that we have no privacy and no rights, that all we have is subject to seizure at the whim of government. We are beginning to accept that we may be picked up, to disappear into a gulag for life, with no trial, no confrontation of witnesses, no nothing.
In eight years, we have descended into a fascist state with no more than a whimper. We've already been banged.
When national bankruptcy is declared in a year or two, all social services will be gone and we will be at the mercy of the rich oligarchy that controls the wealth the United States used to have. The NeoCons will have finally achieved their dream, the American nightmare.
Taking into consideration that our government has literally no credibility anymore. They couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag. It's affected the whole government. Bush's incompetence has infested the whole process. Which more than likely includes the FBI! I think I will wait for more evidence to emerge. If it ever does! There is literally nothing these people say that I believe anymore. They have lied to many times.
NativeSon, I could not let this thread go by without addressing your post. Sadly, you are right. Peace to you and a healing water to wash away the bitter root. The Great Mother and Father surround your Spirit and give succor. One day you will See.
Bbbaaahhh don't like to be sheeople......then what do we do about it.....and just who is we.
What, and where is the answer...who to believe...how and when could a difference be made?
If this last 8 years were a movie would you have walked out? Asked for your money back? Thought who could come up with such unbelievable trash?
Thought no way could this plot be accomplished in America?
Well it wasn't a movie ... mission accomplished, with more to come...and believe it or not it doesn't seem to matter to enough of us to make a difference what is said or done anymore.
It is too convenient. And on top of it all I am still stuck on 911 and the airforce stand down and the crime scene carted off in record time and evidence melted down. We saw it with our own eyes and the official story doesn't fit. And all the lies since and the wars because of them and the deaths and the agony. And that is THE question, what do we do about it?
Does ANYONE believe that Bruce Ivins was the "culprit" and then conveniently committed suicide? As if. After nigh on to 8 years of lying to us, cheating us and b.s.ing us, the Feebs, the CIA and this obscene administration doesn't seem to realize that we are onto them. The question is, what do we do about it?
TXBODHI: Excellent post.
BROKEN TOP: You raise interesting points and connect the dots astutely. Some director ought to bring Sherlock Holmes back and apply him to these particular mysteries... if nothing else, to use fiction to open the curtain to those who would otherwise believe "the official version."
Never fear for, I today received a letter in reply from my congressman, a republican, in response to my asking him to support the Impeachment proceedings... his reply...we haven't yet passed our constitutionally mandated bills which set spending limits for practically the entire federal government....we can not afford to spend our valuable time on any measure that has no chance of moving through the legislative process. But he hopes he and his colleagues should be able to put aside party politics and work on protecting us from terrorism, lower gasoline prices and solve the foreclosure crisis which are crippling our nation's economy. So never fear fellow sheeople all is well.
and remember
We the sheeople, who in order to continue to lose our nation and because we no longer wish to be ruled by law, but have decided to follow blindly to our slaughter, do here by and forthwith relinquish our Constitution and the rights within. And, because of the seperation of church and state, and to be politically correct we acknowledge that we no longer have any God given rights, self evident or not. And let us finish with our Sovereignity, which we the sheeople do forthwith hand over to the 'state', let them do to, and with us, as they will...this is for our own good and because we know they will take such good care of us.
After WWII high level Nazis were brought over to help create the CIA. Most of them were practicing evil occultists. Why is it that otherwise brilliant liberals like Chomsky refuse to see the reality of dark conspiracies in the US government and corporate Oligarchy? Those who refuse to face the shadow side are doomed to be overwhelmed by it. It takes a holistic mix of analysis and intuition to see clearly. We need more people like Dennis Kucinich who both meditates and does action for progressive change to lead us away from the Brave New World-New World Order that the Oligarchs have planned for us. Don't leave conspiracy theory to Libertarians with half baked inconsistent theories; they blast the corrupt Oligarchy and then support the economic de-regulation that empowers the corporate Oligarchy. Living in Austin Texas I've had conversations with Alex Jones and he's done great work exposing the Bohemian Grove activities and the 9-11 conspiracy, but his Libertarian views and views on Global Warming are misdirected. We need more progressive folk digging into the dark secrets of the secret government. We need to end the world rule of the dueling dualists.
If possible (?) Do "we" have the means or the will (?)
Time to throw all the bums out!!
Vice Pres, "This is a stick-up!"
Pres, "Yeah, a stick up see?!"
Vice Pres, "Now all you donkey's better listen to me!"
Pres, "Yeah jackasses, listen up see?!"
Vice Pres, "We're invading Iraq whether you like it or not."
Pres, "So you'd better buy Cipro stock!"
Vice Pres, "Some evil evil doers sent these fairy dust letters."
Pres, "If you don't approve our war budget, you'll be retiring sooners then laters!"
Looks like the foxes not only are guarding the hen house, they're the ones investigating the death of five hens eaten up a couple weeks post-9/11 by unknown assailants. Nothing much from the Fox's Bureau of Investigation (FBI) about those murders until last week when it claimed that a dead hound dog was the culprit. The official FBI story is that shortly before being run over by a car, said mut was seen barking across the street from the hen house and, therefore, the FBI is on the verge of declaring 'CASE CLOSED.'" This despite the FBI's not having interviewed any of its own, even though it's well known that the hen is one of the fox's favorite meals.
Ah yes, 911 and then the "Anthrax Horror." It was hyped and hyped until it appeared in the papers for about a day that the strain of the virus came from one of our (by treaty, non-existent) bio-weapons labs.
After that, you heard nothing save an occasional squib on page 47.
We (the government, not the people) sent the letters out, to kill a couple of Democrats if possible and panic America. It almost worked and the government has used it as a panacea to combat any sanity.
The result is that it takes weeks to send mail and have it delivered to government offices, if it ever arrives. No "terrorist" has ever repeated the exercise, though Darth probably would if it would forward his agenda.
Folks, We can go back 40+ years to the murder of JFK, MLK and RFK to see the similarities of all these murders. The lone gunman, the racially hate motivated gunman, another lone gunman and a bio-chemical killer. One conveniently shot dead two days later, another who later protested his conviction, but was not believe. One, without a public trial, silently shut away for life and a "suicide" before a single question could be asked. Witnesses vanish, evidence washed away, unskilled doctors perform autopsies, tapes destroyed, film cut and spliced. 9/11 happens leaving behind hundreds of unanswered questions and a month later anthrax killings begin.
There has never been a believable explanation as to the failure of our early defense warning system and the Air Force's failure to within minutes respond to the hijacking of four planes. The list goes on and the conspiracy theories never die--nor should they--because conspiracies are what we have. The convenient "suicide" of a suspect is in itself suspect. I agree with all those who say we will never know the true identity of the anthrax killer(s)because it would lead to high levels of the government just as the other killings I mentioned would. In my opinion, not one of the episodes mentioned above were ever the work of a lone man but that of conspiracies.
some interesting stuff in the wall street journal of all places...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121789293570011775.html
some snipits...
Bruce Ivins Wasn't the Anthrax Culprit
By RICHARD SPERTZEL
August 5, 2008
...
But ... this is still far from a shut case. The FBI needs to explain why it zeroed in on Ivins, how he could have made the anthrax mailed to lawmakers and the media, and how he (or anyone else) could have pulled off the attacks, acting alone.
...the equipment to make such a product does not exist at the institute.
...Information released by the FBI over the past seven years indicates a product of exceptional quality. ...
...According to a FBI news release from November 2001, the particles were coated by a "product not seen previously to be used in this fashion before."
The motive for the crime is too apparent. Funding for the war of terror exploded over the smoking hulk of 9/11, Bush began to publicly masturbate for a Lockheed Murder 'Missile Defense System' - " that would prevent 9/11 from happening again". General Dynamics, GE, etc - all of big defense inc - celebrated the windfall.
Deep within the paranoid church of the DOD, it was decided that a terror attack was needed, a chilling display of "how very unprepared the US is" in the event of a bio attack. Again the funding exploded, to the heartfelt joy of many.
One account that I came across noted that the M.E. listed Tylenol ingestion as the method of suicide. I recall an account I read in one of the medical journals I subscribed to some 30 years ago re a series of suicide in the U.K. At that time it was pointed out that these folks took up to 100 tablets and died a very slow, horrible death from liver failure.
How the mighty have fallen--deservedly so! Does anybody believe anything the FBI alleges, says, or claims anymore? What a bunch of bureaucratic fumbling clowns these brutes have become.
I listened to NPR the other day and they interviewed numerous relatives, neighbors, and co-workers all of whom said they flat out don't belierve any of the FBI claims regarding Bruce Ivins. Several of them believe that if he did commit suicide, it was provoked by the FBI harasssment of him.
The Lorax is oh so right on.
The only reason the Bush administration and the FBI, CIA, and every single person involved in this Government have attained the power they have is because this is a corrupt culture. Otherwise there would have been a large surge of "whistle sales" in DC in answer to the needs of the "whistle blowers" during this latest administration; just one of many other corrupt administrations---coming from a corrupt culture.
Unfortunately there are not enough people of integrity in this culture to take any control over the others. In fact, it seems that the American people as a whole have little use for integrity, or intelligent approaches to problems that in most cases were created by their own excesses, and lack of integrity.
So they fool themselves and go to insane extremes to fool others as this story is an excellent example.
The fact that there are most likely thousands of people who believe the original story, and then stretch the imagination to astrological proportions in order to maintain their own self deception is a direct indication that this story will in just a few days---maybe even hours---- be forgotten and replaced with a close examination of what Mrs. McCain or Mrs. Obama wore to the latest fund raiser, or what the polls are saying about the "next Messiah"---who's gonna save us all.
The people who died as a result of the Anthrax exposure, whether it came from one branch or another, died as a result of even just one person who knew what was happening remaining silent. Those DEAD people are simply "collateral damage" no different than the wedding party bombed a few weeks back in Afghanistan, or the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives or survived to be refugees in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a direct result of this administration's corruption; the corrupt participants and the corrupt society that gave them the power.
This is the same corruption that has been present throughout the history of the USA. Even in light of the recent "apology for slavery", the same body of government still has not moved to abide by the treaties it signed with the tribes in the late nineteenth century---and still does not abide by today.
America you are doomed to failure because you are a corrupt society.
To those few members who have integrity, my heart goes out to you. You are on the brink of extinction, and there are no members who want you to survive; you remind them that they live a lie. There are not enough of you to matter, and certainly not enough to take control or to make amends for the mistakes of history. Good luck-----you will need it in the coming years. Like the fictional Noah, your children IF you survive, will be the ones who "replenish the earth" .
But try and remember this-----IF----
----is the middle word of l-"IF"-e------
As for me, I was taught by the ones who cheated my people that there is a God who dispenses justice to the "sinners". I do not believe this but in case I am wrong about this I know that I will have this one last thing available to me.
On judgement day, I will slap that Gog's face, and blame him or her for having made me the son of a great people who ended life surrounded by liars and cheats and thieves and cowards.
And I will not submit my intelligence and integrity by giving my worship; even in the face of Hell-----because I have lived in America---where Hell was invented---Hell will mean little to me when I am dead.
Still no mention of the elephant in the room. The selectivity of the government officials who received the letters and their relationship to getting the Patriot Act passed. That's the real story here.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
This will be another unwinnable battle for the "hard to fool".
Just as the 9/11 truth crowd is labeled as "conspiracy nuts" by the insanely gullible, so will the naysayers about the "official" anthrax story.
Soon the new website "Debunkinganthraxconspiracies.com" will be born and we'll all cheer the FBI for their brilliant police work and Homeland Security for their execllent job.
Remember kiddies - all these events 9/11, Afghanistan, train bombings, Iraq, car bombings, Syria, Iran, Guantanamo, torture, the Patriot Act, wiretapping, FISA, etc. are all part of a Islamic plot to take away our freedoms cause they hate us. Osama Bin Laden planned it with his cell phone from a cave in the Pakistan mountains. (Must be Verizon since they have more bars everywhere)