The WMD That Really Should Be Worrying Us
If al-Qa'ida was unleashing this weather of mass destruction, we would do anything to stop them
Imagine if tomorrow the CIA and MI6 discover that Osama bin Laden has invented an incredible new weapon. This machine - stashed away in some dusty Afghan cave - doubles the intensity of hurricanes, causing them to drown a US city and kill nearly 2,000 people. It turns Spain and Australia dry in the worst droughts on record. It makes the oceans acidic, killing essential parts of the food chain. It is causes these acidic seas to rise and wash away whole nations like Bangladesh and Tuvalu. And if the machine is left switched on for too long, it will drown London and New York and Lagos and Kinshasa too.
This machine exists. It is called global warming - and we are our own Bin Laden. The world's scientists say our greenhouse gas emissions are causing this planetary cooking as surely as HIV causes Aids or smoking causes lung cancer.
If al-Qa'ida was unleashing this weather of mass destruction, we would do anything - anything - to stop them. But because the enemy is inside each one of us, we stagger on, building more airports and coal power stations and shrieking for cheaper oil. We are suffering from what psychologists call an "external context problem": this is so far outside anything we have experienced before, it instinctively seems it cannot possibly be true, no matter how much evidence washes at our feet.
This week, a small band of the sane is gathering to try to shake us awake. In the English countryside of Kent, thousands of ordinary people have set up camp to demand the British Government cancel its plans to build a new coal power station, with six others to follow. Coal is the worst warming-weapon, responsible for half of all the greenhouse gases humans have pumped into the atmosphere. It is twice as warming as the next worst fossil fuel - natural gas - and more than a hundred times worse than wind power. The Climate Camp protesters are refusing to be part of Generation Zzzzzzzz, drugged by celebrity and consumption. Armed only with the science, they are urging us to be rational, now, while we still can.
To grasp the urgency of the situation, let's look at one aspect of global warming that has been widely overlooked. As you lie on a beach this summer and stare at the ocean, you should be aware it is becoming rapidly more acidic - because of your emissions.
The oceans are the greatest carbon sink we have. They have inhaled a third of the carbon dioxide pumped by us into the atmosphere and buried it on the ocean floor. But there is a price. When CO2 combines with water, it creates a fizzy carbonic acid. You taste this acid on your tongue every day in your can of Coke. The more carbon the ocean soaks up, the more acid it produces. Since the start of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of the seas has soared by 30 percent, and by the end of my life, it will have increased by 150 percent - unless we reverse course fast. "A change of that magnitude is more than we have seen in 20 million years," says Richard Feely of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Seattle.
Turning the seas acidic sets off a series of disasters, only some of which can be predicted in advance. Disaster one: The collapse of the oceanic food chain. At the turn of the century, the US, Japanese and German governments were so impressed by the capacity of the oceans to mop up CO2 that they proposed compressing emissions from power plants and pumping the goo into the sea. So a series of tank-experiments were set up to see what would happen. Once the water became strongly acidic, the shells of dozens of sea creatures - from sea urchins to molluscs - simply dissolved, and they died. The food chain collapsed; almost everything else in the experiment died too.
One of the creatures that is killed by acidity is the pteropod, a tiny little sea snail. That doesn't sound like a big deal - until you realise pteropods are the major food source for salmon, herring, cod and pollack. If they die, so does the staple food of hundreds of millions of humans. So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Disaster two: the death of coral. Acidic oceans dissolve coral like a fizzing paracetamol in a glass. So the coral reefs - the rainforests of the ocean, home to a quarter of all sea life - are dying at a rate that has staggered the scientists who study them. And the Reefer Madness gets worse: atolls like the Maldives and Tuvalu have foundations made of coral, so they will dissolve and collapse, if rising sea levels don't get them first.
Disaster three: the seas will lose their ability to soak up carbon dioxide. The creatures that currently "eat" carbon dioxide and sink to the bottom of the ocean - shelled plankton - are killed by acidity. The result? A sharp acceleration in global warming up here. There is even a fear the vast amounts of methane stored in the oceans will be destabilised and rise to the surface. The last time this happened, 55 million years ago, it caused warming so rapid most life on earth died. Think of it as the fart at the end of the world. That's why the biological oceanographer Professor David Hutchins says: "Frankly, ocean acidification is apocalyptic in its impact."
But remember: these are only some of the effects on the oceans - and the oceans are only one dimension of global warming. Suddenly the analogy with the al-Qa'ida psychosis doesn't seem so extreme. As the environmental writer Mark Lynas notes: "If we had wanted to destroy as much of life on earth as possible, there would have been no better way of doing it than to dig up and burn as much fossil hydrocarbon as we possible could."
We need a sea change before the seas change irreversibly. That's why I will be going to the Climate Camp. Where will you say you were when the carbon bomb was fired into the atmosphere?
--Johann Hari
©independent.co.uk
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185 Comments so far
Show AllKP gone Ann R Key?
I don't think so. What brings you here?
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
One of our neighbors works in Tucson. He drives 210 miles, round trip in a Ford F-250 four wheel drive pickup everyday, Monday thru Saturday. by himself. He earns $11.50 an hour. There are many others who do likewise, in this area, all different types of vehicles.
Is that stupid, ___ or just friggin crazy?
They are building 7,000 new homes in the Benson area now, for people who will mostly be working in Tucson. That's only abut a 140 mile Round trip however. Things are looking up. There are probably 7,000+ homes for sale in Tucson. People don't want to live there beause of the traffic problems. Once they get to Tucvson they are in the traffic there. And it's already bumper to bumper from Benson to Tucson much of the time. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's the water.
Hmm, not because of the ' though.
I thought that link was weird.
Truth be told, I am somewhat of a slow wit. When you said "I hope you realize my saying I fell in love love [sic] was in jest.", I thought you were talking about the "drag queen" of the Bush admin. Anyhow. . .
Indeed , we can talk, debate and argue on threads here without _wasting our gasoline_.
Its funny. My round trip to work is only 12 miles. Completely serendipitous. Many I know have a one way trip of ~40.
¿Ever posted a video? I have a camera and a computer to do the job, but never have. I sück.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale's_%22We_Suck%22_Prank
I thought we disagreed on the G/W issue but agreed on other things. We would like to meet in perosn with lots of the people who blog here. I like most of them and like you as much a I can know you. For a long tme we thought you were a gal too because of the ~ANN~ name and figured you were probably married. I hope you realize my saying I fell in love love was in jest. When I asked I wondered if perhaps you may be a fairly close neighbor of ours. But you're probably correct, why bother. We may not even like one another at all. It was just a thought anywwy, no big deal, don't even think of it again. We can talk, debate and argue on threads here without wasting our gasoline.
Just curious Kem, for the most part, we are butting heads. What would meeting in person do for you?
I had asked the guy that deleted his blog if he would like to meet on the off chance that actually meeting in person would somehow work for me where posting my "opinions" had not.
It was very astute of you to find that address by use of the phone number. I thought by the area code it was in New York City proper and when I spoke to ~Mookie~ she said she was in NY city.
ASU is a fine university. So is U of A. I know you realize that I was leg pulling. Anyway ~Mookie/Asfke` are one and the same and that happens with other bloggers who post frequently here at this site. When I Googled their names in the archives she has posted few blogs with the use of those names, but I suspect she's still here. The operater said, "Oh, the common Dreams agent." ___ Uh=huh.
Well,if you ever visit Bisbee or within the 90 mile area, let me know. I'll check this thread weekly and we can stay in touch and if you live in Tucson we go there occasionally. I"m a "Hold-em" poker fan and always win, so every few months we hit the casino there. Have to win $50 to pay for the gas.
I'm a bit dismayed (~ANN~) to learn that I fell in love with a male however. Will have to modify that wowd to, like an respect.
And I was not exactly a youngster. I had already served my time in the Army. I was 35 when I graduated.
I looked at the article. It was I Hate All *Iranians* by the way. I remember that. Kind of creepy. I have a colleague that was stationed in a place where he worked along side Iranians. He said they were just regular people. As most people are. Its the people in governments that are crazy fücks. Yes, that is a generalization.
As for the phone number, I did a search and got this:
http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2004/10/10/wikipedia-found.html
KEM PATRICK August 16th, 2008 1:43 am
Haven't checked out the article yet, but, yeah, people lie. COINTELPRO say they disbanded, but, I think its alive and well. International even.
I wouldn't mind meeting in person. How do we work that? I think I am still a member of the American Legion (my wife handles that, she was in the Army also). Haven't been to one for awhile.
Hey now, ASU has a fine engineering department.
KEM PATRICK August 16th, 2008 12:20 am
Funny the things one forgets.
Ü
I was an investigator with the Strategic Air Command's Insprctor General for many years and am sometimes a skeptic by nature. ___ So many people do lie.
Then scroll down to the Oct 2nd article titled, (Most In Poll Want War Funding Cut). There she posts using both names and in one only posts, "Has anyone seen Kem Patrick?"
I replied and said that we were leaving the next day on a three week fishing trip and during that trip to the east coast I called her.
Oops, It is an Oct 2nd article, but her blog was posted Oct 3rd, at 12.54am on that Oct 2nd article. She ended it with, "your friend Aafke". __ Friend?
I had never heard of her, but using the name ~MOOKIE~, she had replied to a blog I made on another thread the day previously and asked me to call her and posted that same phone number.
Out of curiosity and suspicion, I called that number from a pay phone, many miles from our home It's a New Your city area code. This is what transpired.
A woman answered and gave a company name, which I didn't catch well, but I asked to speak to ~Aafke or Mookie~ and the woman replied, ___ "Oh, the Common Dreams agent".
Hmmmm??? What's up??
She then transferred me to ~Mookie~ who immediately asked me to not ever tell anyone she had used both names when she had blogged here. She then babbeled on for a minute or two about the two threas we had blogged on, but All she "actually" wanted from me, was my home phone number, or my E-Mail address, which she didn't get.
She had a heavy smoker's voice and I "guesstimted" her to be in her late 50s or perhaps mid 60s. I believe she only posted comments here two or three times using those names. She screwed up when she asked me to call her the second time, forgetting that the first time she'd used the name ~MOOKIE~.
Interesting huh?
That's a phone number for a New Youk city office where a group of Neo-Con trolls have a bank of computers and they blog here and on other progressive sites and attempt to track us. Glad it didn't mean anythig to you.
Check the Oct 2nd article here in the Archives headllines section titled, ___"I Hate All Iraqis". ___ A blog by either ~Mookie~, or ~Aafke~ at 12.51am. She used both names. Whenever I type those and some other names here, I get a security privacy report. Just got one.
I'm in Arizona also, would like to meet with you in person someday. We live about 40 miles from Bisbee.
You'd mentioned you were an ASU grad. I'll not hold that sad error against you, as you were probably a youngster then and not aware of the stigma and that far better choices were available than being a pitiful Sun Devil.
Oh yeah, I am in Arizona. I state that in my blog. How'd you know?
Phone number does not mean anything to me. Should it?
Ü take care too.
No, and I find no necessity to contine the discussion, we are far too apart here too even bother. Semi-serious? I am serious, but cannot prove a word of what I wrote, as you cannot prove what you wish to believe and you want "proof".
How do I know the true history is lost? How do we know it isn't? I believe there was once an ultra-modern and technically advanced society here perhaps many thousands or even millions of years ago and a city named Atlantis; where is the actual written history? Is any written history we may have accurate? Etc.
Take Care, see you on the G/W threads.
BTW, does this phone number mean anything to you?
(845)-626-2815
I hope there is a God, I know that if there is no God that is intervening.
No, I really do not get the picture.
What do you mean semi-serious? The true history is lost, but we have some? How do you know the true history is lost?
I believe the power of the mind is more powerful than we are using now. Other than that, without evidence, I am not going to believe what you say is real.
You went to my blog?
Oops, Believe my second paragraph I meant.
Do you live in Arizona?
Well if you don't believe in God or that he allowed his son to die for us, then of course you wouldn't believe in Lucifer, or Satan, he goes by many names. It seens as if you wish to believe in an afterlife, or reincarnation, and I certainly do.
Imagine a billions of years old society of humanity, that is far far advanced in technology and personal use of brain cells from what we are aware of. I mean science fiction at the doctorate level, humans who have the secret of eternal life, able to travel through space in ships by just the use of their mind power. A few of the ancient ones have such powerful mind power, they actually can move mountains just by the thought.
Now imagine that society was ruled by a God, a King Arthur type and his high staff were the knights of the round table and Lucifer sat at God's right hand. Lucifer desires to take contol and a universal war results. Some, or a third of the humans in the entire universe join Lucifer. Lucifer and his followers are finally defeated, but Lucifer is granted a truce and during that truce he and his followers are banished to a far off galaxy that has three livable water worlds, two of which are barely fit for humanity, water is scare on those two.
Name them whatever we wish, I choose Hellus and Pergator. Lucifer's followers no longer have the chemicals to sustain eternal life, except for Lucifer and some of his aids, who are still allowed to travel thru time and space as he is a lawyer and is allowed to present and fight his case before the universal high courts. Reincarntion is a fact of life for his followers and they are us. Get the picture?
Yes I was semi-serious, the true history of humanity is lost to us, some is available in the ancient scrolls but the interpretations we now have, the Bible, the Koran, etc, are far from accurate, as are fables and folk tales which have been passed down to members of the the lost twelvth tribe who lives here.
It's rather complicated, because we do not have the "exact" written history of mankind available to us. Well, in order to believe any or all of that is possible, you'd have to believe my first paragph was possible. My Biblical version makes a lot more sense than the Old Testiment of the Holy Bible does.
Whoa Kimosabe. I missed your first post. I am not saying Satan is in control. I really don't believe in Satan. I merely stated that if there were a Satan in control, God would owe us an apology.
You aren't serious are you?
We are all being tracked. The only thing we have to fear is. . .COINTELPRO.
What's the difference between posting here and posting on my blog?
I never click onto blogs. I don't wish to be tracked. I understand that is not a good idea.
It is far far more complicated than us forming the opinion that God allows Satan to control this world. The humans here were aligned with Satan's army who fought in the great universal war against God. That war has been in a truce for millions of years. This is Satan country along with two other planets, one named Hellus the other Pergator. God is allowing us to make ammends, some will, some won't.
If there is a God, She is Deistic in nature. If God is letting Satan control the world, we most certainly have no sins that need to be forgiven. God would in fact owe us an apology. Have you been to my blog? We should continue this conversion there, if you want.
If you can HOPE there is a God and an afterlife, you can hope that he/she is a GOD, capable of ANYTHING. ___ A god.
You say your are still confused. Indeed, life, our past and our future is confusing, for we actuallly know so little. I can assure you from my experience, that there is an afterlife. Patrick came here and took me away for a few minutes, he piloted the craft I flew in as I stood behind him. The planet he took me to was beautiful beyond my imagination. He never spoke to me, he just gazed into my eyes for a few moments after we had stopped. I recived his messages. He was doing very important work now, and I percieved that he was very wise. He also was a beautiful young man, not a ten year old boy.
Evie conversed with Pat for a long time, but she has never told me what was said, except to say he was a beautiful young man now and he was very wise. "Very wise" were words we had seldom if EVER used with one another. Her's were the same as my observations.
We do not know if, and or, God ever interfers in mankinds lives. How could we know? I shun people who claim they converse with God. I suspect that God, or angels, do interfer at times, but we would not know that. "Miracles" do happen, sometimes we are alive after a very close call, only due to "luck". Chance or fate as we term it, comes into play with our very lives at times. Was it just luck, chance or fate, or was it devine intervention? You don't know, I don't know.
If there is a God, then there could be God's mortal enemy, Satan. Satan could be the one who still controls this world, he has Godly powers, but he is limited to what he is allowed to do, as it is written in ancient historical scrolls. It is confusing, for we only have the use of a tiny portion of the powers of our mind.
My personal belief? Very briefly. We are the fallen angels, we live many lives here and each time we are allowed to accept what God finally determined was the only option to allow most of us to desert Satan and return home some day.
God made it simple, he allowed his only son to be a human here on Earth and take ALL of our sins upon himself and die for us, for OUR sins and if we believe that is so, and have the faith to accept that is the truth, we will be allowed to return home someday. Or be "saved" as the Christians put it. Saved from what? ___ Saved from Satan's control.
And Jesus said, "By your 'faith', I promise you, that you will be with me in Paradise this day." __ 'Faith' ---- 'Hope' ---- Seek the truth, and you shall find it.
I salute you for returning.
Nevertheless, I am still confused. The only thing we can be sure about God is that God is allowing everything that we do. God allowed Bush to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. God is allowing Bush to point his bloody finger at Russia. And so on.
How have we rejected God? What is there to reject? Jesus is gone. How can I reject a person I have never met? I really have no issue with you believing in God based on your experiences, nobody should have to go through what you did, its your belief that Jesus is the only begotten I have issue with. The connection escapes me.
Thomas Jefferson believed in God. Jefferson did not believe that God was intervening in any way in the affairs of humanity. Jefferson believed in Jesus. Jefferson did not believe Jesus was the Christ.
I hope there is a God. That's it. Reason being, if there is no God, this is all worthless. The pain, the suffering, all of it will simply be dust if there is no God. If there is God, there is hopefully a beautiful afterlife. All of our lost loved ones will be there. There may be tears of joy, but there will be no more tears of sorrow.
I think that's worth hoping for. Wouldn't you agree?
God won't allow us to take more sorrow than we can handle. Then too, consider, if we have rejected him or her and turned our back on his his or her son, perhaps he doesn't visit? I dunno. I believe what happened for us was very rare. Nothing occurred when our second son wa killed twenty years ago. I can't answer your question except to offer that personal opinion.
Just in case you do come back.
I opened up to you by telling about my mother passing in 1980. We all have our tragic events in life. I have more. My wife's sister killed herself in 2001. Nothing from God that time either. Not sure how you expected me to react. Its not like I haven't heard similar stories. It only makes me wonder more since I am not getting any word from God. Doesn't seem fair, does it?
What you wish to believe is your perogative. I cannot speak for God. I've noticed he or she, sometimes allows the good ones to return home early. I wish now by your reaction, that I had not opened up and told you what happened for us.
I won't be returning here to continue the discussion.
1. Just to be sure, you don't expect me to believe based on your experience do you?
2. Don't you think it would have been better if God had stopped the bullet?
3. When do I get my experience?
4. Many angels doing what exactly?
5. You really think God is going to give me an answer this time?
You will have to ask God why he or she does whatt she or he does. I have my personal theories but won't write them here. It does not matter what we think or wonder about. The man on the cross next to Jesus who spoke to him that day Jesus died (here on Earth), had the right mind set, and that is actually all we need to know.
I do not know if you or I are going to be punished for anything. I do not speak for God. I know much of the "Holy" Bible is corrupted history and words written for a fucking politician and I've never met a preacher I trusted. I trust the written words that are attributed to Jesus. that is my perogative.
I and my wife were allowed to see our son for a few minutes, about three months after he was killed by another boy who accidently shot him, he died in his mom's arms. The "experience" happened in our home one afternoon, we were in seperate areas of our home at the time , both wide awake and we both recieved very smiilar messages.
Our son was well, very happy, was very busy with important work and he did want to return. He was no longer a young boy, he was a beautiful young man and he was "very wise". That experience saved us both from going insane. We had never discussed any such thing previously, neither of us has ever used mind altering drugs. We were both sober. It was a wonderful experience. There is a God, one God I'm certain, many angels.
You never answered my question: Is God going to punish me for my ignorance?
Ü
I am not wrong about Jesus. My mom died in 1980. I had no experience. Why? God may be real, but not like my computer screen. Why would God choose 2000 years ago to send Her only begotten? Why would God then take away Her only begotten?
Why didn't God leave a sign near the oil that said "Here is oil. It burns. Use it sparingly or you may upset the balance of Mom."
Why is God MIA?
We disagree becaue you are ignorant about the issue.
I love you too.
Your are wrong about Jesus too. I've personally had an experience, which involved the death of our ten year old first son. God is as real as your computer screen and Jesus is his first and only son.
I see you don't want me to get started on dick Cheney.
Actually, this is fun. Not often I get someone willing to keep an argument going.
Side note: I was trying to debate a Christian online and he ended up deleting his entire blog. I wasn't the only one debating certainly, still, it was . . . disturbing. I'd really like to "convert" someone.
Bö.
The archenemy was supposed to be tongue in cheek. So, I already loved you. Ü We just happen to disagree on what the particular response to climate change should encompass and as to the veraciousness of the consensus.
No, but there are some who are pretty goofy.
This is fun huh?
Am I till your arch enemy. or are you starting to love me?
Don't get me started on Dick. . .Cheney.
Is there such a thing as an non-opinionated snot?
Uh-uh. for example we often know when someone is a damn crook or a con artist, but I'm not either.
Opinionated snot. Nyah nyah nyah.
Takes one to know one.
Ü
Of course, twas easy.
You got me there.
Snot
Very well.
Suit yourself
Is God going to punish me for my ignorance Kem?
Am I gambling with my very soul? Do the fires of hell await me?
I've read the OT cover to cover. I've read the NT three times cover to cover. I think that's enough to know its all a crock.
And if Jesus the man WAS Jesus the Christ, and you are mistaken about your opinons on that score, you are taking a big gamble. You should find some "modern" papers and study that issue also.
Ya don't need a friggin church to study it either.
It's obvious. Your are very ignorant about the global warming issue however.
You still don't know if I am a denier Kem.
Unless you mean I deny that Jesus is the Christ.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you considered me intelligent though. Why did you think that?
Peace?
I didn' know you were a denier then ~ANN~
I had always consiered you to be intelligent.
KEM PATRICK August 4th, 2008 12:31 pm
Oh-oh, here comes ~MIMICCS~ and all of the other crazy global warmng deniers.
You started it!
KEM PATRICK August 6th, 2008 4:46 pm
If every human on earth stopped fucking today and did so from now until death, that would not prevent the life ending disaster that humanity faces from the result of global warming, caused by humanity from burning fossil fuels.
I'll take your word for it.
Ciao
Over population is a very very serious issue, so is cuttting down and burning the rain forests, so is polluting our oceans with plastics, chemicals and nuclear waste. DU use is a very serious issue, so is the threat of atomic war. Our screwed up voting system is a very importnt issue, wars are a very important issue. The use of tasers is a very serious issue as is the use of cluster bombs. Which of all of those is the MOST important, or are they all of equal importance?
Which of those serious and important issues could INSURE that almost all life on the planet, down to the microbal level was eradicted, when the ocean's methane burps out into the atmosphere?
If every human on earth stopped fucking today and did so from now until death, that would not prevent the life ending disaster that humanity faces from the result of global warming, caused by humanity from burning fossil fuels. So you tell us ~ANN R KEY~ which one of the very serious issues hmanity has, that should be the MOST serious.
Finally, you berate ME for offering MY opinion that global warming is our MOST serious issue, butttt, you have your MOST serious issue and it's perfectly Okay for you to state what YOU deem is the most important issue humanity faces, and not be termed a "know it all".
I see. ____ Well thank you so very much for the "intelligent" discussion. I do not think you are a know it all BTW. ___ Far from it.
Since you say its the most important issue, it must be, is that it? You are the know it all, right?
The issue I think is most important, a world with way too many delusional people breeding like rabbits, is apparently nothing to you since you haven't commented on it. My solution is to stop breeding for awhile. Reduce the world population by choice before the governments or mother nature does it for us. Its good for the planet and it might open up some jobs. Have anything to say on that?
I only responded to you because you first commented on one of my posts ~ANN~. Go back and check it out. You say it "could be" considered to be ambiguous. Well, it "could be" considered to be inane or funny.
Nope, don't got one. Keep lookin, knock yourself out. But apparantly you have the man figured out in your mind, so why do you need modern literature about his life? Try the library.
BTW, any "credible" (modern history) papers from the BC era, would have to be researched from the first penned versions, which are usually written in Sanscrit, or Greek, etc, and then translated into whatever language one desires to print THEIR version of the ancient history. What the hell is your ACTUAL point here ~ANN~ anything anyone would care about.
"Trolls" start these types of inane converstions at Common Dreams to detract from the issue ~ANN~, that's why I asked if you were a troll. It was not an accusation, a question, which was based upon your funny and detracting comments here on a most important issue that you say you don't care about.
So why bother even reading the article, much less posting comments and then you bring up Jesus Christ, a person you say was a rabble rouser? Rabble Rouser? Wasn't that a musical tune for drunks to dance to?
Hey, have you seen the latest satellite photos of the Arctic? Wow, never in recorded history has there been such a lack of ice there. Amazing, because we are in an "ice age", according to some of the smarter gang members here.
I missed your previous post. For someone that doesn't care, you sure do respond to my posts regularly. A neo-con troll? Don't respond? Not quite sure what to make of you. Why not ask if I am COINTELPRO? I have said I am suspicious of the government concerning the events of 911. The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were war crimes. Do I sound like a neo-con? Mother nature might just thin out the herd. Unless we lose our delusions, I say fine.
The papers written at the time of Jesus were not even in English. 2000 years ago Jesus ostensibly was raised immortal and we haven't heard from him since. In the meantime, Islam creeps into the picture and they say THEY have the Word. Do you think the Bible and/or the Quran are from God?
Hey, does anyone see why I don't care?
Kem, Why is it that when I say something that could be considered ambiguous, its a laughing matter, but when you say something derogatory, its OK? I am looking for a modern day paper by a historian that shows Jesus was the Christ. Got one? Again, not something that says Jesus is a historical figure. I have no doubt there was a rabble rouser called Jesus.
Thanks
Hey, does anyone know where the authors for "MODERN HISTORICAL" papers, garner their information? ___ Haa Haah haaaaaa. We need a little humor here, Thanks ~ANN~. Haa haaa ha.
I NEVER said that I think you should stay away ~ANN~. ___ I "ASKED YOU", why you bothered to come here if you don't care about the issue. I see that you also have the problem of reading comprehension. ___ I don't care what you do.
This type of posts is just a distraction and is what Trolls start. Are you a neo-con troll? Don't reply please, cause I really don't care.
I've found that papers written at the time of events, are far more accurate than those which may be written hundreds of years later and for the final time, I won't discuss that issue with you. Read that two or three times so you that you "might" get it.
Not historical writings, modern historical papers that show Jesus was the Christ. Got a link that proves Jesus was the Christ? Or that Muhammad was a prophet of God?
You think I should stay away because I don't care that we may be in for a rough ride? I don't think so.
And there are historical writings that say Jesus was Jesus Christ the only son of God BTW. I don't have any in my possession and no one has to believe those writings are factual or accurate, but they were written. Which again is off topic here and I'm not going there any furthur here.
On this most important issue, no one has to believe the author of this artilce, or what Al Gore is saying, or what any of the scientists Gore quotes are saying. We all have our perogatives to do as we please about any issue or subject.
I happen to believe this author is correct and have offered links here as to why I believe that and I don't care if any of the GW deniers here agree with what I believe or not. I do hope that any who are not sure about the issue would read the links I have offered and give them some serious consideration. That's why I bother to post my comments and supporting links and then answer and argue with the few but persistant deniers. I won't stop doing that either, unless I get shut off by the C/D Webmaster, or run over by a concrete truck.
"You taste this acid on your tongue every day in your can of Coke."
That's not true: I don't drink coke.
Why do you bother to even come here and post your opinions if you don't care ~ANN~. Just bored and nothing better to do? Well you're not in the minority ~ANN~, lots of people don't care, or probably don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe it, but I damn sure do believe it and I obviously do care.
I guess if you knew a madman was racing towards your home with the intent of killing you and your enitre famiy, you'd just sit there and say, "I don't care, there's too many humans on the planet and this will help thin em out".
P/S. I think ~Hollow point~ has a good point. And don't be obtuse. You asked me a fair question and I took the time to give you an honest and frank reply. We both know that when I wrote ~Jesus~ whom I was referring to. I was unaware that you didn't care about the most serious subject humanly possible. So don't bother speaking to me from here on out and we'll both save a lot of time and not have a silly argument.
Look people you can talk post links and call each other names till the cows come home and there are some people who can't face the truth of what is happening in the world.
I notice this in Americans the most since before 911 there wasn't what you could say and attack or invasion of the US main land in modern times. There are still people who can't get their heads around it that this could happen to the USA. They have been spoon fed, brain washed from a early age that america can do no wrong and is the greatest country in the world. Then wake up each morning to the crimes on a global scale from torture to warming and are part of it. So post on and when the water in Florida or NO. reaches the top of your boots it will be mother nature attacking the shores of america then maybe then maybe all the coal, oil and other G. warming companies who buy off scientests will be held accountable.
KEM PATRICK,
I didn't say Jesus, I said Jesus Christ. You got historical papers that say Jesus was the Christ?
As for the topic at hand, I told you before, I really don't care. We got a number of delusional individuals out there. I'd be pleased if mother nature thinned out the herd. Then, maybe, they would understand, but, I doubt it.
~ANN R KEY~ there are many written historical papers, some published, that relate that the man ~Jesus~ indeed was NOT a myth. If you wish to argue that, please do it with someone else, for I'm not a member of any religious group nor attend any churches and that argument is way off topic here.
Now I've posted three links here, do you disagree with their contents, and if so state why, and I'll gladly debate it with you in a friendly fahion, as ~Physicscitizen~ and I had a very friendly discussion here about the issue.
And speaking about suporting ~McCain~ and the neo-cons. Scroll down a few articles to the nuclear thread here, and there's ~MIMICCS~ supporting nuclear energy and McCain's plan to build 100 more nuclear power plants in the U.S. Most of you deniers are all neo-con supportes, closet trolls and ~SIGGy~ here points the finger at me. ___ LOL.
Meanwhille, coal and oil continue to burn, Co2 continues to build in the atmosphere, the Arcitc continues to rapidly thaw and the GW deniers continue to deny it is happening.
Do you two fools honestly believe, that any sensible person would ever believe, that I'm a shill of the neo-cons, or the oil companies. I have begged Common Dreams to keep a thread like this one active at the top of the page for months, and you say I want it to die? I told you to continue to make fools of yourselves, ___ and you do continue to do so.
MiMi:
You sound like me. I believed in AGW also. At least till it started freezing earlier and earlier around here every year. And the springs got later and later and the geese flew north later and later. And we kept setting record lows year after year. I thought at the time that the variables were from AGW.
Like you, I actually started looking at modeling etc. LSD's.....the normal stat stuff. I am not totally convinced that co2 doesn't have something to do with all of this, but at the same time I am not convinced that it does. I am in that la la land.
When I read an article anymore, I look for certainty of fact. I have had one heck of a time finding that. There are a lot of what if's.....etc.
Well, if I set my alarm for 5:00 I will prob get up then. But if my battery backup fails and the power goes out I may or may not get up. Kinda like global warming......
Gotta run.
Sigurdur11. KEM is really the Global Warming Proponents worst nightmare, about as credible as Baghdad Bob.
You see similar tactics when you go on right wing sites and question Bushs integrity or Israel, not to mention 9/11. KEM BTW has equally strong feelings supporting the 9/11 official version. Even adding his own Magnesium theory to bolster the weak case.
Intelligent discussion is not possible with him and his ilk. He is likely a hired hack who gets paid by the comment so long as he promotes the issues of those who pay him.
I comment just to share knowledge I have had the time to obtain, and that may be your motive as well. I also hope to learn something I have not yet learned. I do not expect to convince anyone by my comments alone. The truth can only be self learned. If my comments lead those to question the official version, and they discuss truth they might not otherwise have found, thats a good thing. The biggest obstacle to truth and knowledge, is the certainty those have in their beliefs that have been accepted as a matter of faith. I actually bought into the AGW theory until they started talking seriously about carbon caps and trading. Then I looked into it for myself , and sure enough, found some holes, and then more holes, then big, huge holes.
Ted Markow - What a pleasant surprise you are.
Ken:
A lightbulb poped a few mins ago. I know another blogger who is just like you.
He will keep posting the same sources over and over again and then resort to name calling, etc. He does this to get a thread to die because most people do not like to read personal attacks, but rather the exchange of facts etc.
I am on to you now tho. You must be working for Exxon or such. For in effect you kill the thread with inuendo, name calling etc. What a damn shame.
Be gone so some of us can exchange and learn. You are not helping the Exxons/BP's, etc. even tho they seem to be your master.
"Hi Ted. I thought that might be you. I got it right about Obama, didn't I? I'm surprised you will vote for him. I thought for sure you would go Green. We had that disagreement many times before, if you recall…I haven't forgotten. The difference is now I am not a democrat for the sake of being one."
(Smiling)...
Well, what can I say? I'm not sure I ever disagreed that Obama's a great guy, but I had my doubts whether he'd be our next savior (I know, I know...). I do agree that he needs to be our next president, though.
I have come back around because of you, Mandi...and others. We absolutely need someone who has the intelligence and open-mindedness to harness the energy of the people, especially young people. I desperately hope that that energy doesn't wane after election day.
BTW, did you really think I'd vote Green? Guess I fooled you on that one. (Smiling again)
Gee KEM, I wouldn't mind if I agreed with you on other topics. Just for kicks, I think Jesus Christ is a myth, you?
Kem......I clicked on the link and copied the names from the article.
Then I went to the Senate Report and copied a bit more.
Kem, the names are there. Oh......I understand what I read quit well in fact.
In fact, I understand so well that when I read articles full of conditions to try and prove something, and when those conditions aren't met...oh well.
I do believe the same article was in the Toronto Sun.......would that suit you better?
OOps, sorry, one more. Those names you just listed were not in that article you offered in the "RIGHT WING Propagada link." ~SIg~. There were three scientists named, but no Noble Prize winners that I'm aware of, except Al Gore, and he's not a denier.
I see it offered the opinions of (~Rush~ "Limbow") though. Haaa haaa Haa. You should consider reading other literature than that Neo-Con crap you consider to be of importance, if you really wish to become educated on the issue.
Never mind ~Sig11~ you don't understand what you read anyway, that isn't an insult BTW, it's clearly obvious.
Italy: Internationally renowned scientist Dr. Antonio Zichichi, president of the World Federation of Scientists and a retired Professor of Advanced Physics at the University of Bologna in Italy, who has published over 800 scientific papers: "Significant new peer-reviewed research has cast even more doubt on the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused global warming."
Canada: IPCC 2007 Expert Reviewer Madhav Khandekar, a Ph.D meteorologist, a scientist with the Natural Resources Stewardship Project who has over 45 years experience in climatology, meteorology and oceanography, and who has published nearly 100 papers, reports, book reviews and a book on Ocean Wave Analysis and Modeling: "To my dismay, IPCC authors ignored all my comments and suggestions for major changes in the FOD (First Order Draft) and sent me the SOD (Second Order Draft) with essentially the same text as the FOD. None of the authors of the chapter bothered to directly communicate with me (or with other expert reviewers with whom I communicate on a regular basis) on many issues that were raised in my review. This is not an acceptable scientific review process."
Finland: Dr. Boris Winterhalter, retired Senior Marine Researcher of the Geological Survey of Finland and former professor of marine geology at University of Helsinki, criticized the media for what he considered its alarming climate coverage. "The effect of solar winds on cosmic radiation has just recently been established and, furthermore, there seems to be a good correlation between cloudiness and variations in the intensity of cosmic radiation. Here we have a mechanism which is a far better explanation to variations in global climate than the attempts by IPCC to blame it all on anthropogenic input of greenhouse gases," Winterhalter said
The most recent attempt to imply there was an overwhelming scientific "consensus" in favor of man-made global warming fears came in December 2007 during the UN climate conference in Bali. A letter signed by only 215 scientists urged the UN to mandate deep cuts in carbon dioxide emissions by 2050. But absent from the letter were the signatures of these alleged "thousands" of scientists
Dr. Denis G. Rancourt, Professor of Physics and an Environmental Science researcher at the University of Ottawa
Rancourt believes environmentalists have been duped into promoting global warming as a crisis. "I argue that by far the most destructive force on the planet is power-driven financiers and profit-driven corporations and their cartels backed by military might; and that the global warming myth is a red herring that contributes to hiding this truth. In my opinion, activists who, using any justification, feed the global warming myth have effectively been co-opted, or at best neutralized," Rancourt wrote. Rancourt also questioned the whole concept of a global average temperature, noting, "Averaging problems aside, many tenuous approximations must be made in order to arrive at any of the reported final global average temperature curves." He further explained: "This means that determining an average of a quantity (Earth surface temperature) that is everywhere different and continuously changing with time at every point, using measurements at discrete times and places (weather stations), is virtually impossible; in that the resulting number is highly sensitive to the chosen extrapolation method(s) needed to calculate (or rather approximate) the average." "The estimates are uncertain and can change the calculated global warming by as much as 0.5 C, thereby removing the originally reported effect entirely," he added.
Just a bit from the senate report, which is very easy to find. These fellows are experts, at least they think so, just as the people who believe in global warming think they are experts.
And people, get the numbers right for a change. This 99% consensus is so bogus it removes any credibility from your arguemens.
Where did I EVER say I would vote for McCain? LOL LOL LOL.
As I have repeatedly stated ~SIG~, you have a VERY serious reading comprenhension problem. I said the link which YOU offered, was a RIGHT WING paper, and if any wanted to order any Republicn shit, like McCains's book, or Reagan "T" shirts etc, to click on there.
That's your opinon ~ANN~. ___ I have mine, we disagree and that's perfectly Okay with me. I sure don't want to be known as agreeing with you. I gotta go, Bye. Have fun here making fools of yourselves deniers.
"Naw don't blame the parents, stupid bastards never know who their father was anyway."
Now THAT was stupid.
And Ken:
YOu can vote for warmonger McCain if you desire, being he is for carbon cap and trade etc. He will never get my vote.
~SIGUDUR11~ and the other deniers. Another blogger just wrote on another thread, and I partially quote.
"There are thousands of historians who believe in the Holocost, but it's not a 100% consensus, because a few historians deny it ever occurred."
The photographic and still living witnesses have proven beyond a shadow of ANY reasonable doubt, that the Holocost was as factaul as is the Earth is a spinning globe and a rare water-world in the universe.
There are thousands of scientists who believe that humanity is causing the current global warming problem. It's not a 100% consensus, a few say otherwise.
John W. Brosnahan, who develops remote-sensing instruments for atmospheric science for clients including the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA.
Nathan Paldor, professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
Paleoclimatologist Tim Patterson, professor in the department of Earth sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa
Paleoclimatologist Tim Patterson, professor in the department of Earth sciences at Carleton University in Ottawa
Hendrik Tennekes, a pioneer at the Netherlands' Royal National Meteorological Institute
Eugenia Hackbart, the chief meteorologist at the MetSul Meteorologia Weather Center in Sao Leopoldo, Brazil.
Reid Bryson, founding chairman of the Department of Meteorology at the University of Wisconsin,
B.P. Radhakrishna President of the Geological Society of India
Kem: I think I can count, and those names add up to more than one.
There is still disagreement amongst experts.
Show me a model, one model, that has been accurate so far would you please???????
My tone isn't negative as yours is. Before I worry about warming, and right now I am much more concerned about cooling, I will need to see something that is at least accurate and not tweaked, changed, and the underlying data unrealiable as well.
The diff between me and a lot of folks here is that you are angry that anyone would question you. Your mind is made up. Mine isn't. I was honestly hoping for something of validity in the discussion but that has been sorely lacking.
Naw don't blame the parents, stupid bastards never know who their father was anyway.
"You should be so ashamed, that you were ever born."
That was completely out of my control. Shouldn't that be "Your parents should be so ashamed, that you were ever born."?