damien August 5th, 2008 8:25 pm

I really hate to say this, honestly I do, BUT I do hope you are at ground zero when the Iranians take their one good punch. Only you and NO ONE else.

The world should help Iran develop the atom bomb to put an end of U S aggression the the Eastern countries. It only takes one good punch to shut a bully up and make him run.

foxtrader -

I reproved you for your earlier suggestion that people who don't agree with you about Iran should not post here. Sorry if you feel this was condescending - but really, your attempt to supress other people's free speech rights is just plain wrong. It's fascistic.

BTW, I despise Bush and Co. more than you'll ever know.

RE Ahmadinejad -- I like his intelligence too, and his spirit of standing up to the US and Israel. But I don't cotton to the nutcase religious mullahs who currently run Iran and who Ahmadinejad answers to -any more than I do the christian/jewish nutcases that, along with corporations, drive US policies.

I suspect you and I agree more than we disagree about the evil of US policies. But your recent frothing style leaves much to be desired. Your posts have always been sensible and valuable to me in the past. But lately you're sounding like a Bill O'Rielly of the Left.

Peace.

forextrader August 4th, 2008 10:42 pm

"You are stupider than fuck."

Not only is your sentence grammatically incorrect, it makes no sense what so ever. Fuck cannot be stupid it has (like you) no intellegence.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48:

fuck \fuck\ n.
A slang term for sexual intercourse. [vulgar slang]

Also Ahmadinejad was not "Democrtaically" elected. The ruling religious theocrats bared all progressive and moderate candidates from the ballot. Many other pro-reform politicians boycotted the election in protest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/03/13/dl1302.xml

"The inevitability of the result follows the disqualification by the clerically dominated Council of Guardians of more than 800 of the 909 reformist candidates."

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1244

"Tehran sources report that his followers, seeing which way the wind was blowing, took matters in their own hands. Backed by armed Revolutionary Guards, they stormed the counting sessions Monday, Dec. 18, using threats and physical harassment to force the counters to falsify the results and reverse the gains. Four prominent Iranians, including ex-presidents Hashem Rafsanani and Mohammed Khatami, protested that vote-rigging was taking place."

Iranian democracy in action, if you don't like the way the vote is going bring out the armed Revolutionary Guards and terrorize everyone into voting for you.

At least all bushy boy had to do was get the supreme court to see that the demorats were trying to rig the election and declare the 2000 election was over.

How did bushy boy steal the 2004 election? He won by over 3 million popular votes. I guess when you live in fantasy land ANYTHING is possible.

Whatever the fuck ever Zounds. You were the one that accused me of something false in your previous post, I was putting you in check for that. If you left it the fuck alone and just spoke your piece, it would have been all good, but oh no, you just had to get on your high horse and lecture me about being civil. You don't know what the fuck your talking about.

BTW you don't know fuck about Iran. Achmedinejad is a very intelligent and thoughtful leader unlike your hero Bush.Achmedinejad was also Democrtaically elected. Your hero Bush stole two elections. You are stupider than fuck.

foxtrader -

America is run by nutcase pseuo christian plutocrats.
Iran is run by nutcase pseudo Islamic dictocrats.
Both want to tell everybody else to STFU.

I don't support either.

You apparently fall in with the latter.
But there's no real difference between the two.
And telling people who're trying to sort this out to STFU isn't gonna help anything get better. You dummy.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL
TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran's most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".
"It seems that Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani is forgetting that due to the present intertwinement of Israel and Palestine, the destruction of the Jewish State would also means the mass killing of Palestinian population as well", observed one Iranian commentator.
Mr. Salamatian wondered the reasons behind Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani's declaration, which he said should be taken seriously "considering the rank of the man who pronounced it"

Now I know this article is several years old BUT, RAFSANJANI has never repudiated it. The mad puppet Ahmadinejad has often called for the elimination of Israel backing up Rafsanjani's statement. Ahmadinejad is also a member of the Shiite twelvers, a rather deranged group of religious fanatics that firmly believe that if they can cause chaos in the world the twelfth Mahdi will crawl out of a well and lead Islam in conquering the world for allah (what better way to have chaos in the world than to have a few nukes tossed around). Just google Ahmadinejad + twelve imam, and read it for yourselves, I know most of you don't read anything that doesn't validate your myths and fantasies but you really should google the above. Now I know most of you are rabid jew haters, probably more then you hate bushie boy, BUT think for a second, in a country that is swimming in oil and natural gas, that has almost as much sun as North Africa, more earthquakes than they would like to admit, WHY spend all that money on building a nuclear reactor that can barely light a fifth of Tehran and they will have to decommission long before they run out of oil? Except to build the bomb. Now you know A. Q. Khan of Pakistan either sold or gave Iran the technology to put a nuke on the end of a Shahab-4 missile or a copy of the Russian SS-4.
Also quit with that ignorant straw-man - Israel has nukes so why can't Iran? HOW about if we say EVERY country in the world should have 10 thousand 20 megaton thermo nuclear bombs? Would even everything out wouldn't it, BUT WOULD YOU REALLY WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WITH THAT MANY BOMBS??

Now bushie boy will not launch an attack on Iran, do you in your wildest dreams think he and cheney want to spend the rest of their lives in prison? Come on get real. Israel will not launch an attack either, Iranian nuclear development is too spread out and too deep under ground for an attack to have any serious impact. No, Israel will wait for Iran to shoot first, the Shahab-4 is wildly inaccurate, the Iranians might just solve the Israelis Palestinian problem by vaporizing the west bank or gaza, it might drop in the sea, Israel is betting it will not hit them. Now think about it, once the Iranians shoot, the UN MUST give Israel the green light to retaliate. BUT Israel will end their Arab problem not by dropping 1 or 2 bombs but by dropping 100 maybe 150 nukes on Iran and totally devastating that country. Ahmadinejad and the ruling clerics could care less they think they will get there 72 virgins to fuck for all eternity, it's the people of Iran who will suffer for their leaders stupidity. The arab street upon seeing the massive destruction will be scared shitless, knowing the jews have maybe 100 more and will use them. A rather nasty way to get lasting peace in the ME but it will work where nothing else has.

The USA IS, in fact, in decline.....serious decline. The main reason is spelled ISRAEL. The death of America started in 1967 when the Israelis were not punished for the deliberate and repeated attack on the USS Liberty. Now, in 2008, Ashkenazi Khazars from Eastern Europe, Poland and Russia totally control the USA with false whining about antisemitism. The Israelis make Goering and Goebbels look nice.

We have no right to attack Iran.
We have no need to attack Iran.
We cannot afford to attack Iran.

Troops and bombs are not the solutions to any problems in the world, real or conjured. To quote the movie "Witness":

There is always another way.

hello Miftin, well, being angry with me is of no value. i do know the frustration you speak of. so, it seems like what i wrote is not meant for you. but, this site sure seems like a FREE SPEECH ZONE to me. am i way off about this FSZ thing? if so, then i apologise. sure feels like change doesnt it!

Hey papercut, you have absolutely no idea what people on this forum are actually doing in their communities and on the streets. How many times have you been tackled and handcuffed for holding a protest sign in hostile territory? How many times have you been thrown into a holding cell after two cops tried to break your wrists? How many letters have you had published in the local paper? How many copies of articles and poems and essays have you distributed in your town for hours on end on hot days and been hassled by the police for it? How many county commissioners have you gotten into arguments with? How many fliers have you placed under wiper blades in church parking lots? How many copies of the book "Addicted To War" have you purchased and handed out to people for free? How many documentary DVDs have you purchased for the purpose of showing them to groups of people? How many books have you purchased and donated to your public library? What price, exactly, have you paid for your activism? Being denied employment in your profession?

wow, if you people could hear your selves! why don't you use this energy in the streets of your towns and cities where some real change could be created. complaining here is like being in an online FREE SPEECH ZONE.
is that what you want. amerika is an ocupied country now and you guys are all bark and no bite. the enemy is in charge and you talk about it online. wow.

How about Israel's 200+ EXISTING nukes? Can anyone enlighten me on this, or has the entire world been brainwashed?

Hey Zounds STFU!!! You don't know what you are talking about. I don't need lectures from undercover Bush loving Zionists like you bitch!

Love and respects to President Achmedinejad. Keep your head up my brother!

Plutonium leak at our Vienna laboratory, IAEA confirms
32 minutes ago
VIENNA (AFP) - Plutonium leaked overnight in an ageing laboratory operated by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) near Vienna, the United Nations nuclear watchdog said Sunday.

Do we want the leaks over there or over here?

Snow Wolf, I will not argue with you.

OK we know we have plenty of nut cases around, I know because I am one, but who knows what a nut case would do when his back is against the wall.

We are all concerned about Bush starting the Big one with Iran.

Here is something we all try to avoid discussing but it is one of those dilemmas...

Just Impeachment without the Senate conviction makes it illegal for any future Pardon. Which means Bush would be in big trouble just from the process being officially started.

Now if you thought Bush was crazy enough to bomb Iran now, what makes you think he wouldn't do it for sure to start a major war and emergency to escape punishment?

Do you think anyone is thinking about that ?

Or maybe he ain't that crazy? How crazy is he anyway?

Maybe that ain't crazy from the view of a war criminal.

Let's not forget the CIA sponsored heroin trade out of Afghanistan. A good percentage of Iranians are already heroin addicts and if the CIA/Wall Street drug cartel is interested in anything, it's interested in boosting its already gigantic profits by expanding its markets. Ditto Pakistan.

US in decline? Something is in decline, but what part of the US is Ahmadinejad talking about? Corporatism. Globalism. Nationalism. Militarism. Racism. Individualism.

The decline of any of these would be welcome, and would stengthen our prospects for a happy, sustainable world. If we are to build on our democratic tradition, we will want to encourage everyday democracy in Iran as at home. Let them make their own decisions without coercion. They would rather have a democratic US (or autonomous US republics) as friends than a dictatorial Russia or China.

Nukes? We have nukes up the gazoo. Let us unilaterally start destroying our nukes while building an alternative, defensive system. The best defense is dialog, with ourselves and with them. And, as M L King would have it, a "peace army".

The key to having this is to firmly break the commercial hold on our media---stop monopolistic corporate media giveaways, and support (yes, with tax $$) local and regional public TV, radio, and print. And encourage public schools to participate---teachers, students, parents, neighbors.

Jacob Freeze August 3rd, 2008 10:34 am -- "... Ahmadinejad should still avoid giving the sadistic thugs in Washington even the shadow of an excuse to slaughter millions of Iranians."

I won't bother to quibble with your characterization of Saddam's "stupid game", but your final comment sounds to me a lot like blaming rape victims for their choice of wearing apparel.

In any case, my point was that the true motivations for raping Iran have little to do with the cause stated by its potential attackers and, therefore, are unlikely to be influenced by anything that its leaders (or anyone else) might say or not say about the "whorish enticements" pretended by those attackers to justify their criminal intent.

Irans Nuclear threat could be neutralized...so long as we were certain of a high possibility of crippling all of it (Yes...even the deep Labs could ber taken out)...and it could be done without an invasion...

Iran has been waging asymetric warfare against us since Carter was President...and it will continue regardless who is elected in November.

and Nietzche I can't believe you're defending Ahmidinijad...unless you believe jews are apes and pigs..and Iran has no Homosexuality problem (yes...becase they hang them...no problem)...wait a minute...Nietzche?...perhaps you do..

Stalin had a term for persons like yourself..."Useful Idiots"...just saying..

Irans Nuclear threat could be neutralized...so long as we were certain of a high possibility of crippling all of it (Yes...even the deep Labs could ber taken out)...and it could be done without an invasion...

Iran has been waging asymetric warfare against us since Carter was President...and it will continue regardless who is elected in November.

and Nietzche I can't believe you're defending Ahmidinijad...unless you believe jews are apes and pigs..and Iran has no Homosexuality problem (yes...becase they hang them...no problem)...wait a minute...Nietzche?...perhaps you do..

Stalin had a term for persons like yourself..."Useful Idiots"...just saying..

oleman river...its not paranoia when people really are trying to kill you

I'd call it a clash of civilizations but clearly only one side is civilized...

Sorry...duplicate post...

joneden: "Foxtrader, I suggest you take a long hot bath and then maybe you will be slightly more civil. If that doesn't work, maybe you should try some Thorazine"

Maybe you try some cyanide koolaid, and then maybe YOU would be more civil.

Can't fuck with Iran!

Arvy August says...

"We've already seen how alleged threats of "weapons of mass destruction" were used in another Middle East invasion and occupation."

Saddam played a stupid game of pretending to hold an arsenal of WMDs for ten years, and when he finally allowed the IAEA inspectors full access, Bush/Cheney had already panicked the public and intimidated the media into supporting an invasion. 1,200,000 Iraqis have paid for Saddam's silly posturing with their lives.

I'm not defending anything about the homocidal imbecile George W. Bush, but Ahmadinejad should still avoid giving the sadistic thugs in Washington even the shadow of an excuse to slaughter millions of Iranians.

Nietzsche

Reread your post and give it some serious thought...

Jacob Freeze August 3rd, 2008 8:04 am -- "... without the excuse of a nuclear weapons program, the chance that either the United States or Israel would carry out a campaign of strategic bombing against Iran is virtually zero."

While agreeing with the general thrust of your argument overall, I think I'd have to regard that particular statement as an unwarranted assumption.

We've already seen how alleged threats of "weapons of mass destruction" were used in another Middle East invasion and occupation. They've just been a convenient excuse for "pre-emptive" aggression and their reality has mattered little or not at all -- except, perhaps, as an actual deterrent as in the case of North Korea.

Considering the non-impact of declarations by the IAEA and the U.S. intelligence community in the case of Iran, it seems highly unlikely that any shifts in Ahmadinejad's so-called "nut-case" rhetoric would have any more salutory effect than Saddam Hussein's previous efforts and offers.

Ahmadinejad, compared to these nut cases in the US government e.g. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Mucasey, or the appointees like the supreme court stooges is more intelligent, well spoken, better looking, and obviously more nearly sane.

I made a relatively flattering reference to Ahmadinejad, and some fanatical Jew-hater jumps out of the woodwork and complains that it wasn't flattering enough!

Okay, "zionist watch," I'll explain why I think Ahmadinejad is a fairly straight-talking nut-case who comes closer to the truth about us than all our newspapers and networks:

He is playing an extremely dangerous game of brinkmanship with our nut-case George W. Bush, who unlike Ahmadinejad is as stupid as a hockey puck. One of the likeliest outcomes of this crazy game is the slaughter of millions of Iranians under a rain of American bombs, and not only Bush but both Obama and Hillary Clinton have already endorsed the use of nuclear weapons against Iran, if it's the only way to shut down their weapons program.

And what's the prize for all this risk? An arsenal of nuclear weapons for Iran after its only really dangerous enemy in the region, Saddam Hussein, has already been eliminated. Israel isn't in a position to carry on a major war with Iran, and without the excuse of a nuclear weapons program, the chance that either the United States or Israel would carry out a campaign of strategic bombing against Iran is virtually zero.

Ahmadinejad is risking the annihilation of millions of Iranians for a very questionable exercise in national self-assertion, and that makes him a nut-case for me.

"The US is in decline..."

It's just plain weird that a nut-case like Ahmadinejad is closer to the truth than all our networks and newspapers.

But obviously nobody with any power is listening to Ahmadinejad, and in order to get their attention, he'll have to talk with bombs.

It would be surprising if a few very large IEDs aren't already in place, in Washington and New York. Bush has been threatening Iran for so long that even a bunch of idiots, which they aren't, would have gotten the message and prepared to strike back.

Foxtrader, I suggest you take a long hot bath and then maybe you will be slightly more civil. If that doesn't work, maybe you should try some Thorazine.

Dang, we just got pwned by Iran. LOL

Apologies to all for coming late to this commentary, but I still have to work for a living.

First, to understand how the U.S.claim that Iran seeks a nuclear weapon is TOTALLY BOGUS, one must know a little physics. The fissile material required for a uranium nuclear reactor AND for a uranium bomb is U-235. Natural uranium which is mostly U-238 (anyone familiar with the Periodic Table of the Elements?!) and for the most part NOT fissile, contains less than one percent U-235. To create uranium 235, or U-235 at sufficient quantities for the production of heat to generate steam to operate electrical generation plants, natural uranium must be ENRICHED. In other words, the U-235 isotope must be first separated out from U-238 so that it can be separately manipulated for electrical generation purposes. There are at least two ways to separate U-235 from the base U-238. One is with centrifuges, with which the U.S. is totally obsessed (as in charging that Iraq's "aluminum tubes" were intended to centrifuge a nuclear weapon, which turned out to be totally BOGUS. Another way to separate U-235 from U-238 is via a system of ceramic filters. This is rarely discussed by the US MSM, probably because they have little knowledge of it

To create a NUCLEAR BOMB from U-235 requires SEVERAL MAGNITUDES of ENRICHMENT compared with what is required to produce steam from Nuclear Power. Check out Wikipedia's excellent and peer-reviewed item on this: "uranium enrichment."

Second, on the issue of nuclear weapons, our "government" has been lying to us at so many levels that it is nearly impossible to explain this to the American people, who in general have no knowledge of the physics of nuclear energy. For starters, most Americans do not believe in the presence of what they cannot see (except God!), because, again to put it politely, they are IGNORANT AND PROUD OF IT. And on this score, J Robert Oppenheimer had it right. Americans want to be entertained; they do not want to study.

Iran merely seeks to prevent U.S. hegemony. They have huge allies in this. Take China and Russia, please. Also, has anyone noticed how quiet Japan has been, lately?

The President of Iran has it right that the United States is "in decline," a rather polite way of saying we have screwed ourselves since WW II. We had the means after that war to save ourselves from ourselves and we blew it. We are a very sick society (we are not a "culture" thanks to Disney et al). The President of Iran has a degree in engineering. U.S. President Carter had a degree in engineering and he called for conservation. President Bush has a degree in organized business bullshit. He has bankrupted the United States and is happy to do so.

Third, the President of Iran is not the real power. The Real Power has issued a Fatwah against Iran's development of a nuclear bomb as it is not in the best interests of humanity. It is about time Americans studied the Nature of Islam instead of being jerked around by the Israeli and Neocon sources.

I grew up in the belief that Israel was the hope of the European and Russian Jews for a Homeland. Like the U.S., Israel blew it. Israel is now a Paranoid State.

It is time to acknowledge that Iran is more sane than the United States at the International Level.
-30-

Well, believe it or not--there's actually a really huge new red Ford pickup truck (with all kinds of additional chrome hanging off of it) driving around this area with the Maryland license plate: VOLK

Tetti_Tatti

It was FOXTRADER I meant to reprove - not you. My fault. Sorry for my misattribution.

BTW, If you re-read my post, you'll see I have no problem with roasting Bush supporters. How could I? I think it's our duty.

Apologies,

Zounds

Why are sanctions being threatened against Iran? What are they doing that would bring on these sanctions? They are enriching uranium which they are allowed to do according to the NPT which they have signed on to. So what is the reason for the threat of sanctions? What right does Israel have to say anything about the Iranian nuclear program when they have not signed on the NPT themselves? It astounds me that there are countries that are still willing to be bullied into following the US lead even after all the lies that the US has been proven to have told. When will the world say enough is enough and tell the US to get lost and mind its own business when it has anything to do with another country's sovereignty?

Someone here stated that Iran had ought to find cleaner sources of post-oil power than uranium. That quite misses the point. Any Middle Eastsern country is well situated to exploit solar power--but they don't want to enrich uranium to make electricity. They want to do it to keep the US in doubt as to whether they just might possibly soon have nuclear weapons. Which proves that they ARE a bunch of evil, dangerous nuts after alll, doesn't it?
No. Think about it--as the Iranians surely have. When Bush made his famous, silly speech about the Axis of Evil, only one of the three--Iraq, Iran and North Korea--actually had nuclear weapons (of a sort). So what happened? Iraq was slated to be attacked on a prtext of having WMDs. They opened up the country to arms inspectors, who found nothing. The US attacked anyway, and Iraq was left even more defenseless against the attack because of having divested from any sort of big weapon, as well as a decade of sanctions and two wars. Meanwhile, North Korea loudly proclaimed that it DID have a bomb, and finally blew one off just to prove it. The US removed all sanctions, and there has never been a threat to attack it. So if you were a leader of Iran, what would you do? Sure looks safer to say you HAVE WMD's--although it would help a lot more to NOT have oil, but that can't be helped...
As to the US being a failing empire, if having the world's biggest military is the sole test, then we're doing just great. Unfortunately, by any OTHER measure, we are certainly, inarguably in decline. There is less and less pretence of democracy, as elections are stolen and courts rule in favor of corporations and against the Constitution, we have by far the world's highest prison population, along with one of the highest rates of infant mortality in the developed world, the gap between the rich and poor keeps growing, a handful of corporations are quietly grabbing the key resources necessary for survival, the technology and legal apparatus of a police state have been put into place, and most people really don't care--they are in a drug-induced stupor, obsessed with celebrities and sports and consumption, actually proud of their appalling ignorance; corruption at every level is becoming endemic--as climate change and other environmental threats show themselves to be the most urgent crises of our times, our response is to do nothing, change the channel...there are solutions, but since they don't benefit key corporations and their obscenely wealthy stockholders, it's virtually impossible to get them implemented...ah, but are we in DECLINE? No, we can't be, not when we are in position to kill every man, woman and child, every breathing being on the face of the Earth!

Iran's prevarication is nothing compared with what We-The-People have been fed for the last half century from our American government.

The face of our enemy is in every mirror.

The prayers of fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Moslems, and fundamentalist Jews were answered the day George W. Bush was born.They all believe they are the anointed ones who will survive the "End Times", and the Texas Simpleton is doing his best to make "On the Beach" a reality.

GwNorth, please don't go pointing out the facts about the myth of American superiority. You might upset some people!

Problem is that America's back might well be broken but, like a stricken rattler, it can still inflict a bite. Like Israel, it will use nukes as a last resort to try to prevent its empire crumbling.

That is the danger for the real world, the one that exists outside America's borders.

www.dangerouscreation.com

"As long as we have washington, london, and that "shitty little country" israel, there never will be parity. The zionist are hell bent on ruling the world and they don't give a damn how many of OUR young people need to die to get it. Below is yet another example of these filthy vile people."

But the people in your example are all Christians!!!

Ein volk, ein vaterland, ein fuehrer! Seig Heil!

How history repeats itself.

Hey Joneden don't even go there! G50 was calling people delusional and all that crap and was not discussing the issue. So go fuck outta here with your self righteous holier than thou attitude!

Hey America, don't fuck with Iran! You will get what you deserve if you do!

Ah? "Just because you are all in agreement about your delusion does not make it true - see if the US just falls apart. Pretty sure it won't." They said that about the Soviet Union, the British Empire where the sun never set, the Spanish Empire, the Japanese Empire.... Who's next?

The USA, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, and many other nations negotiated and agreed to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1968.

Article IV of the treaty states that "Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty."

If the USA, UK, France, Germany, Russia and China now dislike Article IV of the treaty, then these nations should formally withdraw themselves from the treaty. Why should Iran be punished economically and threatened with war, even nuclear war, because these nations now dislike what they agreed to?

In law, treaties are contracts. Imagine you signed a contract selling your house, got the money for the house, and now want to keep the money and the house. So, you threaten to bomb the new owners if they do not give you back the house. What would all reasonable people, the media and the courts do in such a case? Obviously, we should not be backing nations who want to use economic sanctions and war to undo the treaties they agreed to.

Then we have this warmongering bastard Kenneth Timmerman who in 2006 wrote "Countdown to Crisis: the Coming Nuclear Showdown in Iran" writing yet more propaganda, fueling the flames of war with Iran.

U.S. Intel: Iran Plans Nuclear Strike on U.S.

http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/iran_nuclear_plan/2008/07/29/117217.html

Then read this on Timmerman:

More surprising, perhaps - and not mentioned in any official bio - is Timmerman's presence on the Advisory Board of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) - an honor he currently shares with Rep. Eric Cantor, Michael Ledeen, Jack Kemp and Richard Perle. Past Board members include Vice President Dick Cheney, US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, and Undersecretary of Defence for policy Douglas Feith. A heady and powerful grouping.

Exclusive: Neocon Expert Caught Out Over Iran Warmongering
http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2006/03/exclusive-neocon-expert-caught-out.html

The neocons want more war and at any cost. The American people, who have no say in the matter can only sit back and watch as this horror show of Middle East hegemony unfolds.

Take it easy on g50 "Pretty sure it won't." This was the collective Statement of Faith of the citizens of the Persian , Assyrian , Greek ,Roman , Frankish , Ottoman , French , British , Austro-Hungarian , Belgian , Spanish , Portuguese , Dutch , German Japanese... (did I forget any)empires that fell apart.

Strictly-continental USA may not fall apart but to think that the US Empire will "beat the odds" where others failed , is a tad self-delusional . "g50" probably has an IQ higher than his name but he needs to read " The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" and "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich"and the biographies of Churchill,Stalin,Mussolini...

Arvy, I agree its confusing for Americans such as ourselves to read this, but don't blame it on the Brits. The Latin derivation of "prevaricate" means to wander from the path. Where the "path" is a goal or direction, then wandering means dithering or procrastinating; where the "path" is a truth, then wandering means lying.

In 1945 the US GDP was 50 percent of the worlds. Today it at 22 percent and dropping. In 1970 the US was the largest creditor nation in the world. Today it is the largest debtor nation.

The United States needs countries like Russia, the Arab States and China to lend it money.

That hardly suggests a superpower.

It most definitely a country in decline.

The British Empire once ruled the seas, and a qaurter of the Globe. At its very height it had already begun to collapse as an empire. South Africa was added in 1901. After 1918 a number of other ex German Colonies were added along with areas once held by the Ottomans.

Some 30 years later it was all gone and The empire was broke.

Today India has a larger navy.

PK

China is just as much indebted to the value in dollars of that debt. Plus, the economy is backed up by the military. So I don't really see anywhere for it to go to.

To the person mentioning PressTV.

Your good Government has a resolution (HR 1308) wherein Press TV will be labled (along with others) as terrorist web sites.

You WILL be monitored if you read such a site and or if you link to articles on it. Under the "Patriot Act" the "Military Commissions Act" and the "Homegrown Terrorist Act" in so reading said site you risk giving up all of your rights as a citizen of the United States.

Trying to inform oneself of the truth in the new Amerikka is deemed a crime. You WILL read only what the Government wishes you to read at the risk of arrest.

This is to ensure that your rights to freedom of speech and your other constitutional rights protected because those Islamofascists all hate your freedoms and liberties.

Barack (Yes We Can) Obama said last week that if sanctions fail to stop Iran's enriching of uranium then military action against Iran would be legitimate.
Iran offered, during negotiations with the EU in 2005, to stop enriching uranium in exchange for a security guarantee (guess whom that was directed towards). In all my reading of the US and UK mainstream press, the only time I found mentioned that Iran is seeking a security is a Financial Times article about two and a half months ago.
As I have written elsewhere, I highly doubt any sane imperial ruler (US president or vice president) would bomb Iran because, as ElBaradei has said, it would turn the Middle East into a fireball. The consequences would be so dire (unimaginably high oil prices, Iranian retaliation outright and through proxies, the sparking of of a nuclear arms race, ect.) that it would take somebody with more than a few screws lose to embark on that fiery journey. Moreover, its not even certain that a US strike, and certainly not an Israeli one, can do more than only delay the Iranian nuclear programme. That being said, Bush and Cheney are still in power, so who knows?

Zounds I never asked g50 to go away, you must be mistaking me with someone else. And I can't understand why it's ok to question and disparage Bush's intelligence here but not his supporters'.

g50 it takes some time for an empire to fall apart completely, signs of its decline are all around, however, make sure you're paying attention. China owns our debt, for instance. That means they actually own the US. That's a clear sign of decline.

Anything we do to Iran will only stiffen their resolve - but what they can do to us and the world - close the Strait of Hormuz with mines, sunken ships, and silkworm missiles - and overwhelm our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan - will reduce us to jello. Then what? Nuking them will not prevent or heal the damage they can inflict.

But don't think that that reality will phase the dunce we have in the Whitehouse, or the jelly fish we have in the Congress.

And don't bet on Iran's leaders to have the good sense to back down from the threats of the certifiable nut-case "W" Bush.

I'm betting on our military to prevent the nut-case from carrying out his insane plans. He does not yet have the grip on our military commanders that the other nut-case Adolph Hitler had in 1939.

Just because you are all in agreement about your delusion does not make it true - see if the US just falls apart. Pretty sure it won't.

fresh1 August 2nd, 2008 6:28 pm -- 'For the British, the verb "to prevaricate" can mean "to lie", but may also mean "to procrastinate". This surely is the sense intended in this article from a British source.'

I don't doubt your suggestion that the British (apparently including Tony Blair) may sometimes use the terms interchangeably, If so, however, it's due to erroneous linguistic confusion and not because of any legitimate equivalence. The two words have very different etymological roots.

In any case, this "news" article is quite misleading for the majority of us who rely upon the dictionary (either Oxford or Webster) for our definitions.

Besides, I fail to see where procrastination would accurately fit the circumstances either. The Iranians are merely rejecting an artificially imposed external "deadline" for abandonning their pursuit of nuclear developments that are, so far as we know, fully in accord with their treaty obligations -- unlike the U.S. and Israel.

Arvy, I believe it was George Bernard Shaw who said that the US and Britain were "two countries divided by a common language".

For the British, the verb "to prevaricate" can mean "to lie", but may also mean "to procrastinate". This surely is the sense intended in this article from a British source.

This is a progressive-oriented website designed to share and debate opinions, and presumably learn and deepen our thinking thereby.
Few of us would want it domintated by right wing opinion (because too much right wing opinion is nothing but dictated authoritarianism.)

Okay.

But neither should we want Common Dreams to be a site for exclusively progressive opinions, with no tolerance at all for opposite political views
In many cases, the issues we discuss here are either too complex to be analyzed via basic/standard Left perspective alone, or, there is no agreed upon basic/standard Left perspective to begin with, even among us 'regulars.'

Angrily shouting off this site civilly comported opinion posters whose opinions we don't agree with, like Tetti_Tatti has done above, smacks of a personal-level fascism more akin to a rightwing personality than a true progressive. Unless the occasional rightwing visitor is disgustingly vulgar and/or violently hateful, telling them to go elsewhere only marks us in their minds - correctly so - as leftwing group think goons. And this in turn only further divides a world we progressives are supposed to be trying to heal through reason and tolerance.

If need be, roasting aggressive rightwingers with counter facts and opinions is fine. Civilly calling into question their political intelligence and their psychologically-deformed love of authority is also fine --even arguably a duty. But instantly barking at them that there is no room for their opinions on Common Dreams, marks us as hypocrites and fascists -- in a word, one dimensional idiots not too different than they are.

g50 August 2nd, 2008 1:44 pm

"So you seriously believe Iran has no intention of building nuclear weapons? Really?"

Not in the immediate future, but they might at some point. Of course, as the French pointed out, they would be unable to use them and their only value would be in preventing an invasion.

Such the is lunacy of current US foreign policy where the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive strike promotes nuclear arming of sovereign nations for self defence.

forextrader August 2nd, 2008 3:55 pm

" BTW you are in the wrong forum, why don't you go to "WorldnetDaily" or "NewsMax" where you would be more at home?"

Forextrader, who exactly is welcome to participate in this forum. I thought the idea of forums was for people to discuss issues--not to prove one's liberal bona fides.

www.StudentsForTheEarth.org

George is running out of time and patience to prove his manhood. If I was Iran, I would be concerned as to what our madman might do.

Why no discussion of Iran's rights to civil nuclear power or self defense in response to Israel's secret nuclear arsenal? Or some coverage of the alternative plans to deal with Iran?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/americans-dont-know-there_b_111199.html

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21112

"We want and we expect a response this weekend," a US State Department spokesman said.

Hey USA, you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime you just might find you get what you need.

Drop one firecracker on Iran and Persian Gulf oil tanker traffic is going to grind to a halt. And NOBODY will feel that jolt like the USA.

Previous commenters have already responded appropriately to the fatuousness of the knee-jerk exceptionalist and chauvinistic view that Iran is cruisin' for a bruisin' by (possibly) daring to achieve nuclear weapons parity with hostile and belligerent nations near and far.

It's another manifestation of Civil War Land in Bad Decline.

g50 you are the one that is deluding yourself. BTW you are in the wrong forum, why don't you go to "WorldnetDaily" or "NewsMax" where you would be more at home?

"TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran's ambassador to IAEA Friday said the measures adopted by the US envoy at the Governing Board with regard to the nuclear deal with India are, in fact, planned steps to create precedence and pave the way for Israel to continue its clandestine weapons program without undergoing UN monitoring."

- FARSNEWS
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8705121192

The Oily Cheney Cabal are reaping unheard of profits while we the people and our hungry children are watching the crime. Buddy, can you spare a dime?

g50 is the number 50 your IQ?

So what if Iran is building nuclear weapons? What gives the US the right to have nuclear weapons and the rest of the world not?

The US might still have the world's most powerful military but it's definitely, certainly, positively in decline.

It can't even afford body armors for its soldiers to begin with, or win a war with mere 3rd world nations, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Just for everyone's information (though many of you may know this) "The Telegraph" is an unapologetic supporter of the Tory Party in the UK. They are a conservative news source and tend to carry that bias just as much as "The Wall Street Journal" or "The Washington Post" does in the USA.

If you want a paper that got it right prior to the Iraq war and maintains a more progressive stance then you need to stick to "The Guardian" in the UK. "The Independent" is not quite as good, but tends to align with the Labour government.

These are my opinions anyway having read all three of these papers widely over the last 10 years.

Iran will wait out the U.S. elections. Why be in a hurry when signs point to serious economic problems and a more reasoned presidential candidate. Bush is grasping at straws. Israel will not succeed in involving the U.S. in it's war with Iraq. If Israel bites it off, it better be able to chew it itself. The American People will not support another war.

If Iran gave up its nuclear energy program, the Bush Crime Family and its buddies, the Israeli-Zionist thugs, would just find another excuse to attack Iran. They have oil and war profiteering on their fevered brains.

Jack37 asks: "How would the U.S. behave if Iranian forces were in Mexico and Canada?"

That's not such a rhetorical question if you're a Canadian. Canadians think about that kind of question a lot. We would be another Iraq and not merely psychologically occupied, as we have been since 9/11. I have nightmares about tiptoeing through unexploded cluster bomblets.

So you seriously believe Iran has no intention of building nuclear weapons? Really?

And you say the nation with the world's most powerful military is in decline?

All right, believe what you will, but a lot of this "deluding yourself" talk in the comments comes across as laden with irony.

Thanks Tom, I made it a favorite.

http://www.presstv.ir/

The Ides of August are fast approaching !!!

One of the reasons I feel the attack will take place around this date is that Congress is adjourned.

It seems there are folks here who are as disgusted with Western news reporting as I am. I can't bear to indulge CNN anymore, and I've even lost faith in the BBC.

But for what it's worth, I've recently been turned on to Press TV. It has a great website, ticker with up to date news, documentaries, streams live... well, you get the picture.

If you're looking for news from a source where Israel doesn't "automatically" receive the benefit of the doubt, check it out.

if these countries were smart, and far-sighted/visionary.. they would go totally alternative. even nuclear is going to become expensive, as fuel grade uranium is not a cheap component, nor readily accessible. the US is already buying most of its nuclear fuel from russia ( I believe.. or it nor, will be soon).

The countries that bypass fossil fuel and nuclear fuel will be the ones who win in the end. and that end.. is closer than it used to be.

alternative energy CAN be achieved.. via small-local energy production, design changes, conservation etc- but it requires a paradigm shift. It will happen where it can be built from the ground up on a totally clean playing field. Only then will it then diffuse back into the existing structures of society-culture-" civilization".

OK I found it!
thanks ZW

http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/5855

melmac78 - are we wishing it away that Iran is in its rights to enrich uranium? No, we're just pretending it doesn't exist. Pretend it long enough and no one will remember. Same system being used as saying something over and over and it's believed.

You can bet there's no proof of that meeting in Cheney's office, and anyone attending that says what went down will be ignored - unless the person persists. Then - well, we've seen what happens to those kinds of people.

Cheney's plan for creating a casus belli for war with Iran is similar to that used by the Nazis in Germany for war with Poland. In that case, they took a few prisoners from their jails and dressed them up as Polish soldiers. Cheney's thinking wasn't very original, but its obvious where he gets his ideas.

why am I not reading anywhere, anymore that Iran is within it's rights to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. Are we wishing that away?

Yes, one as to very aware of the bias in the U.S. media towards Iran.. The words are
Chosen carefully to give the impression that Iran is the problem.
I read an example of it the other day.. The article used the word deviant in describing
Iran response to this latest offer. As if IRAN is the problem.. When they have every right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes under article 4 of the NPT.
All the inspections by the IAEA have no evidence of any weapons program..
The NIE report that came out March stated the same, that is no evidence to support
The idea that Iran is pursuing a weapons program…
Yet Iran is made to be the villain

Hi Arvy--I saw the same stuff:

"Prevarication" by Iran--Where? Does the writer even know the meaning of the word? Perhaps equivocate is more what is in mind, but to conflate the fundamental nature of prevericate--to lie--is to propagandize.

Second, how is speaking the truth about the US's very visible decline an "anti-Western diatribe"?

Of course, no where is it mentioned that Iran is every bit within its rights to pursue the nuclear fuel cycle for generating electricity or that the IAEA has repeatedly stated that there's no evidence of Iran pursuing a nuclear bomb.

All one need do is look at the source to know it's just the usual anti-Iranian propaganda.

It would be nice to know what this international offer entails. If it is to have enrichment in Iran involving an international consortium it sounds like a winner. Everything would be above board. If the US won't accept a consortium deal the negotions are a sham.

"We want and we expect a response this weekend," a US State Department spokesman said. "They were given two weeks. The two weeks is up this weekend."

The U.S. "decline" is simply its coming to terms with the rest of the planet's post-colonial era, by which "others" no longer freely surrender their resources to God's people. I'm not worried about it because having traveled outside of America I do not see anybody whose purpose in life is to screw us, as American pseudo-leadership wants to believe and wants us to believe. Yeah, if we lose the big world competition (held in the midst of plenty for everybody), the Chinese will come and take my refrigerator, and go around wearing my best ties. Hence the above sounds like a self-appointed parent talking to a designated child. Like a would-be master talking to a would-be colony. Once you detox from the American-Israeli propaganda-lie that Iran's ambition is to destroy Israel and to put The West over an oil-barrel, it's impossible to imagine that this kind of paternal "diplomacy" is going to produce anything but escalating conflict. (Iran's president said Israel's fall, if it happens, will be because of its apartheid injustices). See news anchor Brian Williams on "Daily Show" who was just in Teheran's "sanctum" of Iranian security to interview Iran's president---to my amazement, Williams said outright that all of their president's foolish statements are "playing to his base at home" (like "Bring 'em on" Bush), that the source of all this trouble is America's/Israel's OWN mal-informed paranoia. If anybody has a right to be defensive, would it not be the party whose government was toppled by the others (Shah, etc.) and whose natural resources its predatory neighbors are drooling for? How would the U.S. behave if Iranian forces were in Mexico and Canada? Williams' first-hand perceptions are supported by a range of third-party data, including the latest and respected intelligence estimate showing that Iran's claims of peaceful purposes are borne out by the facts and lack of ANY evidence otherwise. (Israel's nuke program started from the same claim, "peaceful purposes," a matter of record.) Iran is ALREADY surrounded by a more than adequate "response" were they to make one nuclear flinch---and they know it. What they want (as Williams reported too) is connection with the world, investment, PARITY with the "grown-ups"---so who is it with fundamental founding philosophies of "us over all others"? For answers see Old Testament and the Smithsonian Institution's motto ("The past is prologue")....

The US in decline? That's the understatement of the century.

Arvy August 2nd, 2008 12:07 pm, wrote:

". . . considers the misleading character of western reporting overall on this subject, amongst many others."

Welcome to 1984; set your watches back to the Stone Age.

However, despite Iran's prevarication, there are signs of increasing internal debate over whether it should, eventually, accept some sort of compromise.

Prevarication?! What prevarication? And why is the internal debate said to be occuring "despite" it?

Very strange choice of words for an allegedly factual news report. But not so strange, I suppose, when one considers the misleading character of western reporting overall on this subject, amongst many others.

As for the U.S. being "in decline", I would regard that as a highly conservative description of ongoing developments in its global status and an impending economic catastrophe.