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TechnoratiTravelers' Laptops May Be Detained At Border
No Suspicion Required Under DHS Policies
WASHINGTON - Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop computer or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed.
Also, officials may share copies of the laptop's contents with other agencies and private entities for language translation, data decryption or other reasons, according to the policies, dated July 16 and issued by two DHS agencies, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"The policies . . . are truly alarming," said Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), who is probing the government's border search practices. He said he intends to introduce legislation soon that would require reasonable suspicion for border searches, as well as prohibit profiling on race, religion or national origin.
DHS officials said the newly disclosed policies -- which apply to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens -- are reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism. Officials said such procedures have long been in place but were disclosed last month because of public interest in the matter.
Civil liberties and business travel groups have pressed the government to disclose its procedures as an increasing number of international travelers have reported that their laptops, cellphones and other digital devices had been taken -- for months, in at least one case -- and their contents examined.
The policies state that officers may "detain" laptops "for a reasonable period of time" to "review and analyze information." This may take place "absent individualized suspicion."
The policies cover "any device capable of storing information in digital or analog form," including hard drives, flash drives, cellphones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes. They also cover "all papers and other written documentation," including books, pamphlets and "written materials commonly referred to as 'pocket trash' or 'pocket litter.' "
Reasonable measures must be taken to protect business information and attorney-client privileged material, the policies say, but there is no specific mention of the handling of personal data such as medical and financial records.
When a review is completed and no probable cause exists to keep the information, any copies of the data must be destroyed. Copies sent to non-federal entities must be returned to DHS. But the documents specify that there is no limitation on authorities keeping written notes or reports about the materials.
"They're saying they can rifle through all the information in a traveler's laptop without having a smidgen of evidence that the traveler is breaking the law," said Greg Nojeim, senior counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Notably, he said, the policies "don't establish any criteria for whose computer can be searched."
Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy." In a statement submitted to Feingold for a June hearing on the issue, he noted that the executive branch has long had "plenary authority to conduct routine searches and seizures at the border without probable cause or a warrant" to prevent drugs and other contraband from entering the country.
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff wrote in an opinion piece published last month in USA Today that "the most dangerous contraband is often contained in laptop computers or other electronic devices." Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, he wrote.
With about 400 million travelers entering the country each year, "as a practical matter, travelers only go to secondary [for a more thorough examination] when there is some level of suspicion," Chertoff wrote. "Yet legislation locking in a particular standard for searches would have a dangerous, chilling effect as officers' often split-second assessments are second-guessed."
In April, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco upheld the government's power to conduct searches of an international traveler's laptop without suspicion of wrongdoing. The Customs policy can be viewed at: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/admissability/search_authority.ctt/search_authority.pdf.
© 2008 The Washington Post Company
100 Comments so far
Show AllHere are some elements of the U.S. Customs & Border Protection Policy Regarding Border Search of Information (July 16, 2008):
The amount of time that an item can be held is to be no more that 15 days; with the consent of an appropriate official it can be held an additional 7 days.
Customs & Border Protection (CBP) officers "...will protect the rights of individuals against unreasonable search and seizure
CPB "may seek decryption assistance from other Federal agencies or entities. Officers may seek such assistance absent individualized suspicion."
Officers may create and transmit a copy of information to an agency or entity (subject matter experts)for the purpose of obtaining subject matter assistance when they have reasonable suspicion of activities in violation of the laws enforced by the CPB."
When officers determine there is probable cause of unlawful activity-based on a review of information in documents or electronic devices encountered at the border OR ON OTHER FACTS OR CIRCUMSTANCES (my CAPS.) they may seize and retain the originals..."
Officers may not read or permit others to read correspondence contained in sealed letter class mail without an appropriate search warrant.
Legal materials (e.g. attorney-client privileged information)are not exempt for search.
In view of the above, here are some suggestions:
1. Try to erase any and all evidence of pornography. Bookmarks to sites where the ages of the subjects may be deemed to be under 18 years, as well as any pictures/videos of the same. These items are cause to refer the laptop to "experts" in assessing the age of persons based on physical features.
2. If the definition of "correspondence" is allowed in any form (e.g. any item sealed in a package identified as First Class Mail by the U.S. Postal Service, then one could mail one's laptop to one's self, and, by not opening it, could prevent it from being searched without a search warrant.
3. Encrypting data may lead to undesirable consequences, such as aroused suspicion and long retention period.
Comment:
How, indeed, will CPB officers protect the rights of persons against unreasonable search? This item is ludicrous, since the entire document revolves around the right to search without reason? Perhaps this inconsistency could be used to challenge the consistency of the document.
If you think that the vast majority of searches will be conducted at random, think again. As noted above, all of us here are contributing to a database that will certainly take priority over random searches. If you have ever visited unseemly webs sites, not just porn sites, but leftist sites, count on this information about you being noted. Also, to ACC: the works you've published may make you a special target for search. Anyone who writes things that challenge the system will also be prime targets.
colleen
sorry for the late post not on CD or the rest as much these days. Source that Russet meeting if you could as soon as I heard about it the old spider sense went off
Federal Agents take your goods
with three little words
"Stand And Deliver"
just like Road Agents.
We should encrypt everything on laptops. Not that there is anything to hide, but just to be difficult and waste their time.
BTW - is there anyone in the government who has a reasonable understanding of unreasonable search and seizure? This seems to fit the definition to a T.
Traveling to/from US (or even within the US) is such a drag. How often have you heard people say, "I only fly when absolutely necessary." Why aren't the airlines siding with the People? If only because their profits are at stake, seems like they would. Or maybe, the new charges for absolutley everything, like baggage, meals, pre-flight seat choices, even soft drinks inflight-, offset the loss of travelers- but for how long? The treatment at US airports sucks, like the walking barefoot through the security checkpoint- ew! (I wear socks and immediately throw them out when I get through- a super-fungus is sure to result).
Makes you wonder about the folks that agree with this BS- they are so thoroughly indoctrinated by a warped, ultra-conservative, far-right Christian ideology, so damned brainwashed it is astonishing, and very, very scary.
IT IS DEFINITELY THE END! HOMELAND BUFOONERY RUN BY THAT OAF REFLECTS AN AMERICA THAT HAS BEEN DESTROYED BY THE PRESENT RULING CLASSES IN CONGRESS.
Wow. It is really hard to believe they are doing this - well, not that hard - but I don't want to believe it. It is a fascist takeover plain and simple.
Great comments by many, many posters here. Oh--and by the way--everybody who makes posts here on Common Dreams: please bear in mind that if you make frequent posts to this website, there is most likely a file on your IP address/identity being kept by a US government police/intelligence agency tracking your comments. This website is DEFINITELY being carefully monitored by USA security agencies.
...you see...folks like us are considered a "security threat" to the US government.
I've written for years saying that the only way to curb the United States is for the world community to declare us a global pariah and put us in Coventry. No trade, no talks, no press coverage, no visiting. Just cut us off from the civilized world and let us stew until we decide we want to rejoin the community. Then we would have to show we had changed and civilized before we could. We'd have to give up terrorism, rapacious trade policies, militarism and a host of other obnoxious traits, but it sure would be worth it, both to us and to the world.
miftin
There are people within every group that are capable of atrocities and have no compunction about using murder for their goals...For example for the Irish it is the IRA...
But your information is very interesting for me...and my views of America have changed a great deal since Bush has been president...
hedology is right. Its not laptops people need to worry about. Any non-American visiting the US these days simply need their head examined ...
The obvious responces are to avoid the bother, not do travel to the US, and not to do business with the US, and if the goal is to get subersive material in or out of the US, use encryption with the internet. Actual spy material found on real travelling spies is so third rate.
Of course they are monsters. Anyone and everyone in the upper echelons of U.S. government knows that the Israelis murdered JFK because he was preventing Israel from developing nuclear weapons. The top CIA operations guy was a Mossad mole. The big organized crimesters of that day were mostly Zionists. The Jewish crime boss in Chicago was actually a top Mossad official. Meyer Lansky was a Zionist who lived out his years in Israel after he got old and sick. Clay Shaw, the big New Orleans businessman was on the board of a Swiss company that operated as a front for Israeli Intelligence. Jack Ruby got his start running guns to Israel. LA crime boss Mickey Cohen was murdering people left and right, and was good friends with Menachan Begin. Ishtak Shamir was head of Mossad Assassinations division at the time, and he hired a top team of French hit-men led by Michael Metz, a contract CIA assassin, the same guy who went after Patrice Lumbumba and also tried to kill DeGalle after he PO'ed the Israeli monsters by withdrawing French forces from Algeria. They are worse than monsters.
Osama be Laughing...
The US is a terrorist state.
Just another in the long, long, list of reasons not to visit the USA.
How's the tourist trade doing folks?
Next year, I believe a lot of folks will have to apply for a visa well in advance of a trip to the states. This has not been advertised very well, and should anyone turn up at the airport, with their tickets and a valid passport, but no visa, then they will be turned away.
Look, I have an idea, why not put a big fence around the whole of the USA, stop all foreign air travel, to and from the states, take all US troops back home, and close your borders to everyone. Keep all US citizens in, and all other nationals out. Stop interfering in other countries, get out of the UN (because a lot of Americans think it is useless anyway.
When this has been done, watch how wars and conflicts decrease around the World.
PS. Sorry to all the reasonable people here, but I think this would work. There would of course be an amnesty period, where all peace loving, anti war people could leave the US.
Edward1793
Maher Arar was denied his day in court in the US because he was considered not to have entered America.
He was detained at JFK airport in NYC for several days under US control and then sent with the extraordinary rendition program to Syria where he was tortured..but he can not get justice in America for what the American government !!! did to him. because according to a judge ...Arar was never in America!!!!!
These people are dangerous and they are throughout the American system. They are using laws to advance their cause...whatever that is...
Nothing that's in the above article is new. Border agents have been allowed to completely search any one entering the country, this is just an extension of that search.
It's not that I'm in support of these unwarranted searches, nor for that matter in favor or BORDERS which is an arbitrary line drawn by the powerful to keep "those people" out, but this has been going on from the the time that the Border Patrol started keeping track of those entering and leaving the country, electronics are now included.
It's a blessing for those of us living in the interior to be able to just STAY AWAY FROM BORDERS. (I know that is not possible for many.)
Meanwhile. Don't like the Bush DHS? Try Obama.
Isn't it more clear now why there is no impeachment going on?
The Bush administration and its followers are extremely dangerous.
How difficult would it be to drive someone insane with drugs so that he would make crazy statements and under pressure commit suicide? Is that what happened to the anthrax scientist? Was this now a cover up of the use of anthrax by the Bush administration to frighten the public into supporting the Bush administration?
What about Tim Russert's death? Did you know he was seen that day by a man who was held for some time in Iran as a possible spy for Israel? How difficult is it to simulate a heart attack in someone?
These people are extremely dangerous imo.
Stop blaming Democrats...They are dealing with monsters in our government.
God help us.
Anyone seeing sanctions and boycotts of the new third world USA coming - not doing business with the US due to BS and worthless "money" - of course the Bush Crime Family and their like will be elsewhere laughing it up - laughing at all you cowering couch potatoes
Don't worry folks. I hear that the Democrats are very "concerned" about this matter.
hey, if your not doing anything wrong, you dont need to have your business laptop for a couple of months, right?
Dont worry, Chertoff and the boys will answer all your emails for you, pay your bills, text your lover, and do your online stock trading for you while they have it...
Welcome to Palistine, Yankees
big business not terrorist.
If you are a top CEO with a company and on a business trip would you maybe not have inside info on your companies doings in your computer? For every story out of the US take that step back and look at the big picture. The US Gov doesn't do anything that doesn't involve business first and its people last.
Why do they bother seizing laptops? Why not just grab the person, strip them naked, then waterboard them quick smart.
And anyone who carries a laptop is suspect I reckon. And those who have cameras are definitely guilty. Beware of people with dark sunglasses too! And hearing aids are a no-no!
In fact, let's shoot anyone who isn't American!
Human Nature Revealed! Check my blog.
Warning to all potential tourists. Find another country to visit.
They will want to confiscate your camera. Coz these days, the 10G memory
of your camera is where you would hide stuff. Not on on the drive of your laptop at all.
Does anybody remember the Horst Wessel song?
I wonder if anyone will ask Obama what he thinks about this.
They can already copy the data on your computer at the airport. The fact they want to seize it seems to indicate they want to do some forsenics and check deleted files as well, stuff they might not get in an airport check.
Obviously, there are many work arounds for someone wanting to travel to the US with files that will allow them to commit some sinister deed, or files showing they have done something bad abroad. I won't say what they are of course. But certainly our government knows this, so I would wonder why they even make this right to seizure public knowledge.
I think they just want to condition people to the fact that the boot is coming down on your face soon. They do these things step by step, and while there is some pounding on keyboards, nothing much happens to bother them, and so it continues. The sad thing is, as the US goes, the rest of the world follows. So this madness is spreading global.
Of course, if you leave you laptop at home, they can just go into your home and check it while you are away, as mentioned in an earlier comment.
Yet I see people are all in an uproar that China will spy on reporters in during the olympics and restrict/monitor internet activity. We are looking more like China than China at this point.
JUST ONE COMMENT...
MANY YEARS AGO I REMEMBER MY CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR SAYING THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS APPLIED TO THOSE --WITHIN-- THE U.S.
TECHNICALLY, UNTIL A CUSTOMS AND IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL SAYS GO AHEAD YOU'VE BEEN ALLOWED TO ENTER, YOU'RE NOT --WITHIN-- THE U.S. AND THUS HAVE NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO PROTECT YOU.!!
DOESEN'T SOUND RIGHT DOES IT?
Good Ol' senator emailed me telling mehe voted blah for what i blahed a petition for. I replied, "I suppose you didn't receive the email where I fired you. You replied with a codescending email about me pissing and moaning about you taking away my Fourth!, you insisted they couldn't wirtetap US citizens, because surely they never have, insinuating I was an uninformed yocal, when I told you Title VII 'Sec 702 and 703 said yes you could, and I will not allow you to keep pissing on my Constitution and what the hell about unreasonable searches in 'Sec 101, huh, Senator? Thanks, Sir. I s'pose he realizes I know now.
rjmart01 August 1st, 2008 1:35 pm
Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, [Chertoff] wrote.
Look I'm as opposed to child pornography as the next parent, but (1) how is it a matter of Homeland Security, and (2) if it's not, why is Chertoff bringing it up in his defense of his unconstitutional practices?
Answer: one more attempt by the worst administration in US history to use rabid emotionalism to create fear, in order to undermine what's left of the Constitution.
rjmart01 August 1st, 2008 1:35 pm
Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, [Chertoff] wrote.
Look I'm as opposed to child pornography as the next parent, but (1) how is it a matter of Homeland Security, and (2) if it's not, why is Chertoff bringing it up in his defense of his unconstitutional practices?
Answer: one more attempt by the worst administration in US history to use rabid emotionalism to create fear, in order to undermine what's left of the Constitution.
rjmart01, so that kiddie porn, eh WTF, but the "violent JIHADIST materials", that shit, you don't pay that no mind, yeah?
Violant Jihadist Materials, as a Muslim, I still must say, hmmmm.
#
WTF August 1st, 2008 1:28 pm Said, "Today laptops. Tomorrow your home."
Sorry, the original Patriot Act allows warrantless searches of your home, papers, computers and anything else. This may be kept secret. You'll never know when a federal agent has been nosing through your wife's underwear drawer.
I don't like this policy. If it gets publicized more, I don't think it could stand public scrutiny. Pass it on.
The Wright Brothers invented the airplane because the U.S. government wanted to use them to drop bombs on people. The original, founding purpose of the airplane was warfare, not some romantic notion of "the freedom of flight."
In a similar vein, NASA was started by a bunch of Nazi rocket scientists aligned with U.S. business interests for the purpose of militarizing space.
Maybe I'll get a round trip ticket to somewhere just to see if I'm on their list.
Encrypted information is nothing, other than random binary noise, unless coherent sets of such noise can be identified and isolated, and then decrypted. If the encryption algorithms and keys are complex enough, decryption can be next to impossible, and most certainly a costly effort in time and money.
Ostensible binary noise can be embedded in such innocuous objects as "jpeg" picture files or "mp3" sound files. Assemblages of binary configured data do not have to be stored on such physical devices as hard drives and memory sticks, they can be conveyed over national boundaries in such innocent forms as pictures of granny at juniors wedding via email . Employees of the NSA and DHS are either complete incompetents or well positioned con men assisting and sharing with the telcos the huge sums of money being made off this scam.
sung425 August 1st, 2008 2:05 pm
"Can anyone tell me why it is that Chertoff, who is a dual Isreali citizen, is Secretary of Homeland Security? Jesus, everytime I go to an airport, I feel like a Palestinian, guilty until proven less guilty."
sung425,
Welcome to Hebron.
http://www.counterpunch.org/lendman01252008.html
It is true – in order to be free one has to give up one's freedom.
They hate us for our freedom to deny a decent respect to the opinions of mankind.
"The moment war is declared... the mass of the people, through some spiritual alchemy, become convinced that they have willed and executed the deed themselves. They then, with the exception of a few malcontents, proceed to allow themselves to be regimented, coerced, deranged in all the environments of their lives, and turned into a solid manufactory of destruction toward whatever other people may have, in the appointed scheme of things, come within the range of the Government's disapprobation...
The State is the organization of the herd to act offensively or defensively against another herd similarly organized...
War is the health of the State. It automatically sets in motion throughout society those irresistible forces for uniformity, for passionate cooperation with the Government in coercing into obedience the minority groups and individuals which lack the larger herd sense...
But in general, the nation in wartime attains a uniformity of feeling, a hierarchy of values culminating at the undisputed apex of the State ideal, which could not possibly be produced through any other agency than war. Loyalty-or mystic devotion to the State-becomes the major imagined human value...
In a nation at war, every citizen identifies himself with the whole, and feels immensely strengthened in that identification. The purpose and desire of the collective community live in each person who throws himself wholeheartedly into the cause of war...
It cannot be too firmly realized that war is a function of States and not of nations, indeed that it is the chief function of States...
War is the health of the State. Only when the State is at war does the modern society function with that unity of sentiment, simple uncritical patriotic devotion, cooperation of services, which have always been the ideal of the State lover..."
Randolph Bourne, "The State", 1918
Our home is seven miles, as the crow flies, across a high mountain range, to our southern border. We are friends of four border patrol agents. Last month several thousand illegals were apprenended in Arizona.
According to our friends, none that they ever heard of had a "laptop", but most were carrying one or two plastic gallon jugs of water. Several were carrying drugs and a few were packing hand guns. Several were driving, or were passengers in stolen vehicles, they prefer Ford vans and pickups. ___ No laptops though.____ Anyone attempting to board an airliner and is carrying "water" should be suspect. I'm gonna report this to Blackwater Inc.
Instead of doing my usual explosive, rational hate exposition, I decided to dig deep into this revelation to perhaps find something positive...
With the gutting of the 1st through the, at least, 14th Amendments to the Roll of Toilet Paper, including the demise of Habeas Corpus and, therefore, the Magna Carta agreement, the peasants are now living before ?1260AD. Now note this:
At least these neocon pigs haven't discovered the aristocrat's "Right to Wedding Night Nuptials."
Huh? Am I right, huh? Whatd'ya thunk dudes and dudettes?
Paint me stupid, hey?
:)
Sorry...Paint all of us stupid, 300 million plus, otherwise these traitors would have been hung six years ago.
whatfools August 1st, 2008 1:48 pm -- "laptops, newspapers, books & Bibles…
Why is an educated population such a threat to this government?"
I would assume that your question is purely rhetorical. Truthful information has always been perceived as a threat to those whose authority relies upon poorly informed popular endorsements. Frankly, I think that the concerns of U.S. authorities in that regard are vastly overblown. Persuading "Joe Average" USan about anything factual that is inconsistent with state propaganda has, in my experience, always been an exercise in futility.
WideofVision August 1st, 2008 5:53 pm
"How far is this from just detaining citizens for no probable cause, no suspicion?"
This already happens of course.
"How did they decide to pick out the people in the first place?"
Its at random. Its a typical police state procedure. Arrest with no charges, imprison for two or three days, release without explanation. Repeat at random.
And what does one have to do when "borrowing" anything that doesn't belong to you?
MAKE A DEPOSIT.
If they want your laptop, have legal forms ready with your computer's serial number and tell them they can have it, but must sign the paper and make a $1000+ deposit in the event of loss or damage. Said deposit will be returned to them when your property is returned unharmed.
cromerovich August 1st, 2008 4:40 pm
"The absurdity of the notion that detained laptops prevents child pornography and "terrist" sedition from entering the USA is that there is this thing called an Internet. It can bypass in nanoseconds all this anachronistic border patrol nonsense from anywhere in the world with virtually complete anonymity. High-grade encryption can, to all practical intents, make Internet interception futile."
Exactly. This is nothing more than harrassment for the sake of harrassment. Its nothing more than a way for the Department of Homeland Stazi to show you whose in charge and to remind you to mind your place.
Sounds like another attempt to isolate the States from foreigners who can read and write, people a President with a clear reading and speaking problem needs to be suspicious of. Maybe it is a corporate coup to get at confidential business information from European and Asian executives, at least this opens interesting intelligence opportunities.
I did go to the States about once a year until 2000, then I didn't, because as a European with a passport issued in Buenos Aires and a couple of visas from Pakistan I imagined I would spend hours on the border explaining to a dumb border official that I am not the brother of the shoebomber. Since then I haven't been back to the States because I thought it would only take me about 10 minutes until I would find myself in a conversation that I would immediately regret (Europeans tend to talk a lot about politics). I thought I would visit the States again once a new President is in place, but first he would have to revoke so many regulations that it will probably take years. I would certainly not take my laptop with me as long as somebody can download its content, not because I have anything to hide, but because I see this as an invasion into my privacy. And I am sure many other Europeans think the same way I do.
4the future - Dumb question. Bushco happened.
This whole 'laptop seizure' may soon become a moot point.
The head of British Airways just announced that he expects all the airlines that have been struggling this year with negative profits and stratospheric fuel prices to collapse.
He said with fuel prices so high, and demand for and confidence in air travel dropping like a rock, the end of the majority of the airlines is just a matter of time.
The first powered heavier than air flight was in 1903. The first airline (for airships) was in 1909. The first US airline was launched in 1919. Originally, flying anywhere was considered a toy for the very wealthy. Why do you think the term 'jet set' was coined? Very soon, and for only a little while longer, that what it will be again. Especially Richard Branson of the 'Virgin' labels fame planned low orbit 'space' flights at $200 000 a pop.
Isn't it a bit sad to think that flying, once man's cherished dream, will once again be just that. A dream.
I just returned from a trip back to the states and they required you to open your carry-on luggage and remove your laptop so it was completely uncovered. I asked why couldn't they see it through the case and they said that there were usually too many wires that interfered with seeing it clearly. Maybe that is even what those low-level workers thought. Now I know, they want it easily available for confiscation purposes.
As has been mentioned above, anyone up to anything nefarious, would basically put the info on a website, undoubtedly encrypted, or in some other seemingly innocuous format, and have nothing incriminating on the travel laptop, which would undoubtedly be a brand new one.
We are going step by step deeper and deeper into the darkness. Whatever happened to the 4th Amendment? Whatever happened to the Constitution, whatever happened to America?
Galen, do not meddle with these swirling Blackhawk bandits for their cuirass, plackart, poleyn and tasset are most vexing to penetrate. Do not trifle with them, sir, lest they smite thee verily from on high.
imagine that people looked at all this shit and simply stopped coming......
And if you do object to having your laptop seized, there are all those lovely Halliburton/KBR camps just waiting for detainees to 'process'...
" Searches have uncovered "violent jihadist materials" as well as images of child pornography, he wrote.
Sure they have, but you can't tell us about them cause the terrorists are listening. Next thing you know they will be telling us that a top bioweapons scientist, son of a drugist, was responsible for the anthrax attacks. Having access to the most dangerous chemicals known, committed suicide by tylenol and codine. I guess we really are that stupid.
Michaelc - in 2003 I was at an SCA event in southern Vancouver (Whiterock actually), right up against the border fence (it was actually a farmer's fence just the other side of the ditch and cement marker that is the border).
This was just after the US had announced it was using Blackhawk helicopters to 'monitor' the US/Canada border.
There were 200-300 of us camped in our friend's family field, minding our own business,having fun and practicing medieval country dances and (safe) European martial arts.
And we spent the entire weekend under helicopter surveillance, with the helicopters violating Canadian airspace to hover right over us. And at night they would fly over and use the high intensity floodlights. Try sleeping in a tent in an open field with that happening.
I guess the US Government was afraid we would use our home-mede armor and rattan practice swords to invade.
And BTW: The SCA is on the government watchlist of 'terrorist' organizations, along with Amnesty International and Greenpeace.
I live in Bellingham, up near the Canadian border. I have done a lot of international travel in my day. This used to be the longest unguarded border in the world. Now we have uniformed thugs everywhere. In the several years of this increased border scrutiny, they have caught a number of rather stupid pot runners. No terrorists. They caught one dumbo with bomb stuff in his car, but that was before all this fooforah started. I am a backpacker and a small boat enthusiast. I can carry anything I want across this border any time I want, and these thugs, despite their high tech, cannot catch me at it. This is not about national security. It is about national supression of thought. It is about despotism. And as long as there is a television propaganda device in every living room in America, it will continue to worsen, no matter who is elected. Yes, the laptop thing is horrifying, but it is just one more nail in the coffin. I used to in favor of gun control. Not any more. We all need a few.
The cancer is spreading. The body of democracy is under attack by some of the most toxic egos imaginable.
Here's a short term prediction: Soon buying a laptop will get you on the no-fly list. And put you on the 'Homeland Security' watchlist.
The real bullshit here is that those who desire to keep the material on their laptop private, know how to do that. No computer genius of any stature can get information from a system where the user does not wish it to be discovered or where it can be easily destroyed. This being the case, only average people will be affected by this nose thumbing of the constitution. Anyone with true criminal intent isn't going to leave the data on their laptop in the first place (hell with the government, someone might steal the laptop!). And while the authorities may be able to take the laptop how are they going to get that flash drive media card the size of a postage stamp that was just shoved up the ass of the would be terrorist? Wouldn't this be the test case? Can they demand to do a body or cavity search without probable cause?
And what data would the terrorist keep on the laptop that would need the power of a laptop in the first place? An email? If you use a website to check your mail there is no record on your laptop.
This pisses me off because it will do nothing to catch a terrorist. As in the examples listed in this article they didn't convict any criminals, only ticked of American citizens. How far is this from just detaining citizens for no probable cause, no suspicion? How did they decide to pick out the people in the first place?
Did the "violent jihadist materials" lead to some big terrorist bust? No, it was probably a copy of one of those graphic videos of a beheading or execution.
the terrorism that our masters really fear is from their subjects, as the society continues to collapse. we are the real targets of the anti-terrorism campaign.
realityseeker August 1st, 2008 3:49 pm:
"I'm a Canadian ... Since I bring a laptop with financial and personal information on it, I guess I'll never visit the US again."
The solution is simply. Buy a second hard drive and install it with just the OS and browser. Put your real drive in luggage and swap drives at your destination, if your machine is not confiscated. If machine is confiscated buy a new one and charge as the cost of business.
To quote Mr. Crumb from last week" I am out of here" and now I join him!
Today I asked a Maryland State Trooper if he's been spying on any peace activists lately? Then I told him that I'm a peace activist and asked if he'd like to spy on me. He was getting into his car and pretended to not hear me. But I wasn't more then fifteen feet away. After he got his car running he sat there looking at me. Five minutes later a Country Sheriff's car pulled up and the guy walked past me and asked "How you doin'? I told him "Lousy." Then five minutes later a city cop car pulled up and he walked right past me, checking me out. Funny, but none of them seemed interested in petting my dog. Oh, and some other guy in a suit did come right up and start petting my dog and asking me about my dog, but what he really seemed to be doing was looking right into my eyes really close to see if I might be on drugs. Cumberland, Maryland. Avoid it. IN fact, don't even drive through it on the Interstate. Find another route.
If people like Russ Feingold, Dennis Kuchinich, Barbara Boxer, Chaarles Rangel, Howard Dean, Bernie (the phony socialist) Sanders, Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee, et al -- in other words, the left-wing of the Democratic Party (which is, in reality, the left-wing of the *Business* Party) --if they had any political principles, let alone political courage, they would break away from the Democratic Party, join the likes of Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader et al, and establish a third party movement.
Can you imagine the *power* -- the immediate acceptance -- a party with that kind of name-recognition would have!
But they don't do that. And why? Because they're oh-so-attached to the political power -- the political *property* -- they've accumulated as part of the Democratic/Republican duopoly.
The left wing of the Democratic Party is very helpful to the economic elite in that they create the illusion that the Democratic Party will actually *do something* in times of political unrest.
They don't.
They co-opt broad-based progressive movements ... then they dilute them .. and finally they betray them.
So that, for example, the Democrats co-opting of the labor movement in the 1930s, a few years later, morphed into the Democrats winding up in bed with the likes of George Meany -- both of whom, the Democratic Party and George Meany, collaborated in selling out rank-and-file America.
... The Democratic Party sold out the working class in the years after the Civil War.
... They sold out the Populist movement in the 1890s.
... They sold out the labor movement in the 1930s.
... They sold out the civil rights movement, the environmentalist movement, the antiwar movement.
The Democratic Party betrayed the antiwar sentiment in this country four times -- count 'em -- FOUR TIMES in the past six years!
1.) In 2002, the Democratic Party told the voting public, in no uncertain terms, that the Congressional elections that year would not be about whether the US should or shouldn't invade Iraq -- invading Iraq was a done-deal, a bipartisan decision -- instead, we were told that the 2002 elections would be about "other issues." ... In other words, peace was "off the table."
That's 1.
2.) In 2004, what could have been a national referendum on Iraq, a national referendum on war or peace -- a war candidate, George Bush, versus a peace candidate, Howard Dean --instead became a choice between two war candidates: John Kerry and George Bush.
That's 2. That's the *second* betrayal in the past six years -- by the Democratic Party -- of the antiwar sentiment in the United States.
3.) In 2006, the Democrats captured both houses of Congress, chiefly because millions of Americans voted Democratic, hoping the Democrats would end the War. ...
However, in the days that followed their stunning success, the Democratic leadership wasted no time making it clear to the American public that ending the War in Iraq wasn't in the cards, it just wasn't going to happen.
Ending the War ... off the table!
Impeachment ... off the table!
But just so the table isn't completely bare, guess what? ... The possibility of war with Iran: *ON* the table! ... The possibility of war with Pakistan: *ON* the table!
That's 3. That's the *third* betrayal in the past six years -- by the Democratic Party -- of the ever-growing antiwar sentiment in the United States.
4.) Which brings us to 2008 ...
Enter Barack Obama. King of the con men.
Wonder of wonders, Barack Obama the peace candidate, has now become Barack Obama the warmonger!
And oh, thank-you-thank-you-thank-you, Barack Obama, for finally "clarifying" your position on Iraq -- Obama's position now being that if the commanders in the field say we should stay in Iraq, we stay.
The fact that Obama's now-clarified position is essentially the same as that of John McCain and George Bush has yet to make an impact on mainstream media, specifically, left-liberal media.
Moreover, Obama has the hopeful audacity to claim that -- Hey, you misunderstood. I'm not a flip-flopper. That's what I meant all along. No, really! Would I lie?
(In other words, it was *our* fault for not listening carefully.)
Obama supports two wars now in progress (Iraq and Afghanistan); and has shown a clear-cut willingness to engage in two more wars (Iran and Pakistan).
He's four-for-four!
Evidently, Obama wants to be a war president just like George Bush and John McCain want to be war presidents.
All of which guarantees that the 2008 election will, once again, *not* be a referendum on war or peace.
Has anyone had their laptop sent to Guantanamo?
The absurdity of the notion that detained laptops prevents child pornography and "terrist" sedition from entering the USA is that there is this thing called an Internet. It can bypass in nanoseconds all this anachronistic border patrol nonsense from anywhere in the world with virtually complete anonymity. High-grade encryption can, to all practical intents, make Internet interception futile.
Here, as usual, any of the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse (Terrorists, drug dealers, organised crime and child pornography) can be invoked to cover any situation requiring invasion of privacy. It's a matter of National Security! Don't you know there's a war on?
I'd be extremely leery of keeping any competitive company information on a laptop that might be of interest to the US and in particular a US corporation, particularly one with connections to the current administration's politicians. There's big money in commercial espionage.
Encrypting the entire laptop hard drive works in principle but is defeated if the border "officers" force you to divulge the password.
Instead use the laptop just for access, keep and save all information to a central company server using encrypted links via the net and clean out the cache etc. after every log off. Stay away from memory sticks etc. and remember that deletion doesn't erase data, only overwrites and formats can do that.
Galen: Ve hef vays unt means of making your laptop talk.
Bet this thread gets more than a few comments.
Every time the government does something else I think "maybe, just maybe, they'll stop now." Each time I think they've finally gone as far as they feel they need to go. But no. Now it's my laptop. I spend my entire working day with my laptop. I'm a writer of fiction and poetry. I post on blogs all over the place when I'm in the mood, and I'm never complimentary about the fascists in D.C. I email people all over the world, including places like the West Bank, Turkey, and England, as well as dissident types all over the U.S. Hell, I post here, where all of you are soooo supportive of our government. Now I don't look particularly terrifying, notwithstanding the fact that I am a mixed bag of races (uh oh) as is my husband. He is a software engineer. My computer is like my third lobe (left brain, right brain, center brain so to speak). I can save the data, no problem. But for them to take it away would be more than just taking data. It's got my journal, which I'm not esp. interested in letting ANYONE see. Ditto my current novel, or poetry that is in the process of being formed. It's PRIVATE, DAMN IT. It's MINE. I am just a normal person getting by in this increasingly hostile country, trying not to drive too much or waste money on things we don't need, and this computer is the external repository of who I AM. I'm nothing special in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn't hurt a fly, I write because I must, I grow a garden, I play with my cat. Ordinary. There could never be ANY reason for someone to suspect me of being otherwise. And now I find that they don't NEED A REASON to suspect me. They can just take my computer because they feel like it. Maybe someone won't like my hair, or my smile, or the fact that I wear glasses. Or maybe they'll just be in a bad mood that day and want to take it out on someone. And then they'll read my inmost thoughts, which are nobody's business but mine, or my work, or some of the things I've written for submission to various sites that don't agree with the government's position.
I'm sorry. I'm ranting. This thing hit me between the eyes and I'm so pissed I can't see straight.
I don't even have the hope that the goddamned Congress will do anything about it. I'll call the people who supposedly represent me, but I know it won't help. I guess, no more travel abroad with the laptop. I just can't risk it. It would be a little like a lobotomy to lose it.
How long before you are stopped on a street corner by a Blackwater 'security consultant' and asked 'Vhere are you papers?!'
6 to 18 months.
Hmmm... It appears the walls to keep the Americans in their own country are swiftly going up.
When you start to limit how people can travel, you stop them from communicating as effectively. Then you can control them even more.
How long before you are stopped on a street corner by a Blackwater 'security consultant' and asked 'Vhere are you papers?!'
I'm a Canadian who has traveled for decades to the US - once a month before 9/11. Mistreatment and hold-ups at the border have reduced my trips to a couple of times a year. Since I bring a laptop with financial and personal information on it, I guess I'll never visit the US again. It's a shame.
" always back up your data. This can be done on a flash drive the size of a pack of playing cards." - Nate W
Don't terrorists have enough money to buy a laptop when they get here. So even if terrorists didn't have fabulous mafia memories why would they travel with laptops. Data can be stored in things not much bigger than a stamp. Gee, my digital camera can store information. Now, homeland security will want to steal my camera and the card inside it. Next thing we know there will be full body cavity searches for all air travelers. After all if you search one person you have to search them all. That's what equal protection under the law means.
I heard this about a month ago.
My business partner in Germany doesn't even want to do business in the states any more because of this.
As someone who has travelled abroad more than the average American with laptop in tow, this latest development is truly alarming. While on visual inspection, I do not fit their current profile for a random search, one can not rely upon that staying so forever. If anything, this measure calls for one to fall back on a basic of Computing 101, always back up your data. This can be done on a flash drive the size of a pack of playing cards.
I guess McCain is safe from having his laptop searched. Actually, what the early-Alzheimer's McCain remembers can be written on the back of a stamp.
"reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism?"
Hardly. Perhaps Senator Feingold would lead the charge to DISMANTLE the Department of Homeland Security and the new intelligence arrangement where all 16 or 17 intel agencies are to be managed, or so it seems, by the intelligence czar appointed by the president.
President Clinton apparently had the heads of the FBI and CIA meet often with him to keep him and each other up to date on whatever was going on. It worked. And it worked without setting up huge, unwieldy and unworkable bureaucracies that sop up billions of dollars while destroying the Bill of Rights.
They have been doing this for over a year now and this is nothing new. A Bush appointed judge ruled last year that lap tops are not part of luggage and for international flights, they can take yours away from you and go through all of your files and copy any of them that they wish. I suspect they could even do this for domestic flights if they wanted. If this isn't unreasonable search, I don't know what is.
Just as long as they don't dig up my potato patch.
Did they confiscate Obama's laptop or any of his staff's electronic devices when they returned from their mid-east/european tour last week....? have any MSM electronic devices been detained....?
My bet is that they target little guy's and let the big fish off of the hook... Otherwise I think that this policy would be up for repeal last week....
Technically, this policy does apply to anyone who travels abroad. CEO's, Politicians, Celebrities, etc.... so why is it not being implemented evenly across the board...???
Perhaps if these "big shots" had their PDA's rifeled through, we could also eliminate or show a drastic reduction in "white collar" crimes....!!!!
KCT
Ahern himself, in his self-generated report, has captured, or detained, or hampered, or scared off, thousands of real and imaginary terrorists.
Some of the evil-minded got employment in the WhiteHouse from where they rain down terror on lots of people. But, they are for sure not trying to cross any borders with their laptops.
Apparently the U.S. government is determined to ensure that those "freedom hating terrorists" are deprived of any and all reasons for hating Americans.
Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern is right, of course, when he says that their efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy." You can't infringe on something that is non-existant.
So much for: Freedom of speech
Freedom from unwarranted search and seizure
Freedom of the press
Freedom of unrestricted travel
Freedom of association
Freedom of religion
Freedom period.
One more signpost of The End of America. Naomi's Wolf's book was aptly named.
And this from the guy who covered for South American death squads. Oh, if they would only apply this to government officials and corporate executives passing through customs. Welcome (again) to Fascist America. Revolution is nigh.
Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts "do not infringe on Americans' privacy."
Why wiretap, burglarize and torture without just cause or warrant when you can search through the private thoughts, notes and address books of millions of citizens as they travel? Bravo land of the free!
Americans needed to join Hammas and visit the West Bank for this sort of treatment before our government brought it over here.
Land of the free?
I don't understand why they...OH Right! The terrorists! Almost forgot about them.
I forgot that they are "always planning their next attack" and "hate us for our freedoms" (like our freedom to keep personal information on a laptop)
Terrorists are lurking in the bushes outside your house right now! Terrorists are hiding in the stalls in airport restrooms. Terrorists are in the sewers, the stairwells, the crawlspaces, and the elevator shafts. OH NO! Terrorists have remarkable skills and can fly jetliners, construct nuclear bombs, and manufacture synthetic viruses. Terrorists are able to evade satellites, sneak into military bases, converse undetected, and they are expert drivers. WOW!
I wonder where all these terrorists are coming from? OH yeah! Iran! The terrorist training camps are all there. In fact, the entire IRG is a terrorist organization! Our congress says so! They are ALL terrorists and the president is a "terror leader" that's attempting to build nuclear bombs to fulfill his evil world domination plot! (did I get that right?)
Osama Bin Laden was the original bad guy but didn't have enough oil to be evil. So Saddam Hussein attacked us on September 11 and we had to rid him of his oil to prevent furture attacks by his huge stockpiles of non-existent chemical bombs. After Saddam was lynched a cheer of victory went through the "free" Iraq and now we are welcomed there as liberators.
Afghanistan and the evil Taliban with their leader Osama Bin Laden (I thought he was the leader of al-quada, oh heck he's a bad guy anyway!) was oppressing their people and we have freed them and they throw roses at the feet of our troops because they are so thankful we saved them.
We have to fight these radicals! We've teamed up with Saudi Arabia and Israel to help fight against radical religious oppression!
The Chinese have to be stopped next! How dare they censor the internet, execute criminals, force a specific religion, wiretap telephones, and imprison without due cause. I heard they sometimes even confiscate people's laptops! It's a good thing I live in America where nothing like that ever happens.
I love Big Brother.
Can anyone tell me why it is that Chertoff, who is a dual Isreali citizen, is Secretary of Homeland Security? Jesus, everytime I go to an airport, I feel like a Palestinian, guilty until proven less guilty. Mr. Chertoff is even constructing "security" walls on our southern border. What happened to America? Maybe the republic has been invaded and occupied over the last eight years, and the invaders are in the white house.
Well, I'm quite glad that I'll never have to travel into or through the usa if I don't want to. I really can't get around the idea that anyone thinks this is a good idea, or that it's legal. Then again, torture isn't legal, neither is launching wars of agression, so we shouldn't be surprised that the bush junta is taking this road. I suppose it'll be a mere matter of time before people are held at the border for weeks/months at a time before being allowed to continue their journey or deported; oops, that's already happened hasn't it?
The Republic is gone, welcome to deciderville, United Sociopaths of Amnesia.
Books? They're confiscating books? I wonder if they're confiscating bibles? Those books contain quite a lot of terror plots, violence, murder and pornography. Especially the older Jewish parts.
Of course any serious terrorist wouldn't carry anything with information on it through a border or customs station. Whatever he needs will be in his head. Mafia guys have the greatest memories in the world. Their lives depended on remembering an incredible number of details. Terrorists are no different. So who's stupider? The DHS clowns and their Republican enablers, or the guys who actually know their business and carry it out efficiently and ruthlessly?