wsws: Too bad Nader does NOTHING to organze and build a platform and party in between election years; if he did, maybe he could have gotten that "5%" of the vote you speak of in 2000-instead he has gotten a smaller and smaller percentage of the vote, every four years.

He is quite the Houdini except in an election year. That would explain why his popularity has waned so dramatically.

How about blame this guy that does nothing between election years, then shows up to lambast the Dem's on Fox (I've watched it,) rather than us 'less than fully aware, less than principled' voters. I've been around these last eight years. Where has Ralph been? (Gone: No Cameras Rolling.)

Obama '08.

Obama's a politician, w/ all that implies.

Naders a DC beltway lawyer, Fox News Pundit, with all that that implies.

I guess he would be the lesser evil?? Ha Ha Ha!

Yawwnn,Zzzzz, give me a call when
he is ACTUALLY harshly punished.
You know, like so many Black and
Brown Americans are for extremely
petty crimes and first time/non-violent
offenses.

Most sincerely, Dwayne Chandler.

He looks like a frog. But what, he doesn't know how to march?

This man has caused immeasurable destruction to te world by helping orchestrate the theft of two elections with his unprecedented despicable slander that helped the planted the most destructive administration in our in office.

The vicious attacks against Max Cleland, a triple amputee Vietnam Vet, for sponsoring an investigation into the causes of 9/11 is only one of his many horrific deeds. He has no conscience and should be judged and punished accordingly

Hey guess what dogs? I am getting ready to go with my girlfriend to meet.................................yea, you guessed it buddy- Vincent Bugliosi! THE MAN himself is signing books in Pasadena CA. Guess what hosers? Yea buddy I will have my very own copy of Vincent Bugliosi's "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder ISBN 978-159315-481-3(2008)" signed by none other than Vincent Bugliosi!

I know you dogs are jealous. Aren't you? Kiss my butt!

I THINK THAT IT IS TIME TO TRY PELOSI FOR HIGH CRIMES AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

She has failed time and time to defend the Constitution against assaults from the administration. Which is worse, the perpertrator or the accomplice who allows it to happen? I say that they are equally at fault.

Both the Republicans and Democrats are at fault. Neither defend the Constitution. Each party caters to their particular interests, not the American people.

Remember, this gang of crooks doesn't want to rock the boat with impeachment or anything else. What they expect to do is inherit this crooked government to use for their own ends. As nothing has been done to curb the blatant criminality of the Executive for eight years, they have eight years of legal precedent to use to defend it if they are ever brought to heel.

Try writing to your alleged representatives asking for a return of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, intact and functioning, to the halls of government.

You will be ignored. this question has been asked by hundreds and to my knowledge, there had never been a response. They don't want to discuss the Constitution in any way, they just want to get rid of it. As Bush said, to all of them it has become, "just a god-damned piece of paper."

So let's say that if Gore in the last days of the 2000 campaign was clearly ahead in the polls that Nader instead of getting 2.7% of the vote got, instead, 5%-6% of the vote. …
Certainly not an unreasonable calculation.

Ok, and with that 5%, as you know, Nader would have gotten federal money. So then let's say in 2004 he added to his 5%-6% and got, say, 7%-8% of the popular vote. … Again, not an unreasonable expectation.

Now in 2008, would it be unreasonable to expect that he might get, say, 10%-12% of the vote?

If that was to be the case, the political establishment would *have* to reckon with a third party candidate who garnered 10% to 12% of the vote.

My point is -- a viable third party movement takes time to establish – but it has to start at some point. And that point could have been 2000, or even *before* 2000. BUT IT HAS TO START AT SOME POINT!

(Continued)

As for Ralph Nader ... Ralph Nader declared his candidacy in 2000 at a time when it looked like Gore would wipe the floor with the Republican candidate, George Bush.

And, indeed, that's exactly what *should* have happened. George Bush was the most beatable Republican candidate to have run for president since Alf Landon. (And was even more beatable when Kerry ran against him in 2004).

So let's say that in the last days of the 2000 election Gore was ahead in the polls by such a margin that it was likely he would be elected president. What would have happened is that more people would have voted for Ralph Nader. Why? Because a great many liberals, seeing in the final days of the 2000 campaign that the race between Gore and Bush was close, chickened out and instead of voting for Nader voted for Gore.

(Continued)

Lisa,

Thank you for your interesting, thought-provoking reply to my post – "15 Reasons Not To Vote For Barack Obama (Vote 3rd Party Instead!!!)"

In your reply you wrote:

"(I'm voting for Obama) FOR ONE EFFING REASON -- To keep McCain/Bush Part Three from happening." (Caps yours.)

It's interesting you made that point, about "Bush's Third Term," in that when I posted my "15 Reasons Not to Vote For Obama (Vote 3rd Party!!!)" ... I goofed and didn't include Reason #15. ... Here it is. As you can see, it relates directly to the point you made about McCain representing "a Bush 3rd term."

15.) Many right-wing supporters are *delighted* with Obama's post-primary lurch to the right. In fact, so delighted was the editorial board of the "Wall Street Journal"
-- the editorial board of the WSJ generally reflecting not just the right-wing but the right-wing within the Bush administration -- so delighted was the Wall Street Journal's editorial board regarding Obama's recent lurch to the right, especially as regards Iraq, that on July 2, 2008, they published an editorial entitled "Bush's Third Term." In it, they gloatingly stated: ""Maybe he (Obama) is worried that someone will notice that he's the candidate running for it (Bush's third term)."

So here we have The Wall Street Journal's editorial staff (of all people!) -- the right-wing of the right-wing -- *delighted* at Obama's post-primary move to the right. Indeed, gloatingly suggesting that an Obama victory might, in fact, represent "Bush's third term."

Wow!

(Continued)

Lisa said

If you can tell me how to help elect a 3rd party candidate this '08, I will vote for them. Gratefully

Aren't you answering your own question there? The way to elect anyone is to......VOTE FOR THEM.

Believe me, I am agonizing over this myself. I am horrified of the very possibility that McCain could be our next president. However, the "lesser of two evils" argument is wearing very, very thin. The reason we only have two evils to choose from, is because we keep believing this. I am ready to break out and stand (alone if I have to) for someone I believe in, rather than someone who stinks the least.

wcdevins gee a 400% increase isn't good enough for you ...sorry..just kidding How about some ideas like are posted in reply to the impeachment hearings in todays CD...a national day of do nothing on September 11th with a site to let people know just how many are willing and able to say....Government you are wrong, you are not doing your Constitutional job and we therefore are taking a day off either to mourn the constitution, because why should we do ours when you aren't doing yours any reason you want just so it is coordinated? and Lisa we are not doomed
we just need to do something......we are Soveriegn Individuals with God given rights and all the possibilities of which we can conceive so why would you choose doomed...no they, can impose anything upon you there is always choice...what is it that you and we want?
Me I want the US Constitution upheld, I want those who have broken with it to be Impeached and Prosecuted thus removing them from government. I want the Contemptable held to the rules of law for their contempt and in Rove's case his other crimes as well. I want regulations put back upon Banking, Corporations, Oligarchies, the stock and other markets. I want an end to these stupid "wars" terrorism, drugs, etc. and the money invested into America rebuilding our society and infrastructure. I want free education up to at least a college degree for all who qualify and want it,thus releaving the tremendous debt placed upon students and families.
Also this more educated society will create more good things and ideas making this a better and better society. I want we the people to realise the powers that we hold and for us to come together in numbers great enough to reclaim them.
Democrats-Republicans- Independants-Others how and why would Americans hold forth any of these labels over being an AMERICAN and all that that is and/or once stood for. Dreamer Idealist Nut case throw your label at me it won't stick for I am that I am and so are you....Isn't it time to Awaken yet?

Blackmail would be the ultimate weapon against any Democrat (or Republican, for that matter)who could do any real damage to the Radical Republicans. However, faulty political calculation on the part of the Democratic leadership will probably be enough to quash this thing. Hauling in Rove and others who have refused to appear before the House Judiciary Committee would be a huge benefit to the Democratic Party and signal to undecided or disgusted American voters that the Democrats can have a backbone if they choose to.

Richar Paine; You nailed it. "Between working hard, TV, and a cold one...." I've recently tried to 'talk' to a few 'normal, average Americans" and their frame of reference, scope of knowledge, understanding of their country and their world, was so skewed........A product of Fox News and decades of MSM doping,

For ex, yesterday I was asked, (A.) what if 10,000 Mooslims (sic) all went out into our forests and started fires at the same time?"

The ZionistInfluencedOwned media at work.

With A-rabs/Ragheads are now all Terrorists, (nice cover on the New Yorker, showing Michelle with an AK-47 and bin-Laden pictured behind her.....) Arabs are "The Enemy" BECAUSE OF ISRAEL AND the ME brimming with Oil and Natural Gas,

We are doomed: The MSM/MindControl is Largely Zionist. And the average American will ask questions like (A.) above, and vote for and desire war accordingly.

America has beeen hi-jacked.

Pelosi was on John Stuart recently. I couldn't watch.

Richard Paine says: "...if all those who said they would…. but… would vote third fourth or fifth party then maybe there would be 3-4 -5 parties……."

I doubt it. Instead of 1% of the vote they might get 4%. Third parties just don't appear on the average American's radar. The two-party system is a sham and a disaster, but it is rigged so the current rules won't ever allow a third party large enough to create a change. I don't know what the answer is, but I know voting for Nader when he comes out of his hole once every 4 years is not it.

Mukasey will never enforce any congressional action against a Rove & most other Republicans, even though he is supposed to. Hence, congress can bring contempt charges as often as they want to, it will all lead to nothing. How do we get rid of Mukasey? I'm afraid that nothing can happen until the next president takes office even though our Democracy cries out for it.

Lisa if all those who said they would.... but...
would vote third fourth or fifth party then maybe there would be 3-4 -5 parties.......Iraq has that many.
It is a shame that it has fallen upon the people of this nation to do something since their representatives, legal and not, aren't doing their jobs or duties. For between working hard and TV and a cold one, the mindlessness of the end of another day and the wonderful prospect of more of the same or worse tomorrow...well hey, how can I, in all reality expect, we the sheeople of the good ole USA to do anything more than take it and pay for all the mistakes and worry about it another day. The politicians and rulers don't worry about us or us doing anything. Gone with the wind, even Scarlett new it
I'll worry bout that tomorrow, for tomorrow is another day and thus ends the movie and quite possibly the country we knew.

"Does anyone but me suspect that Democrats in Congress were
the target of Bush's wiretapping. Someone must have some
information on them . . . "

That's the J. Edgar Hoover Syndrome and is probably true. The actual purpose of warrantless wire tapping is to spy on political enemies. That's how Hoover remained head of the FBI for life, by collecting embarrassing or criminal information on D.C.'s powerful. The Democrats, who are as deeply cynical as the Republicans, also love it because they intend to spy on the Repubs if and when they come back to supreme power in this country. The problem is the Republicans secretly love leaders like Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. At bottom, they are utterly ruthless thugs and killers. To them, spying like that is no more onerous than brushing lint off a dark suit. The Democrats, however, are fundamentally feckless pussies; they would be stiffed by the various spying agencies who would feed them ream after ream of totally unusable B.S. while the Repubs would continue to receive the really juicy dirt. Can you see Pelosi and Reid sitting around trying to figure out how Lindsey Graham's's use of Mexican made toilet paper he buys at the 99 cent store can be used to smear him?

Well, it's pretty clear not many think this will lead to anything serious.

My barometer: Did you see the face of David Addington in Congress? That smug bemusd smirk? HE knows something we are not privy to. HE ain't worried, just a little amused at these quaint little folks asking him questions. they actually think they have power to DO something!

Vote Green: for Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente to make more than a statement. Vote Green if you think you can. If you have your doubts, vote your conscience, BUT support the Green Party with a good donation to help it get its 5% with or without your vote-- and IMPORTANTLY, REGISTER Green -- now THAT's a statement. In many ways as good as or better than a vote because: 1- you voted with your feet and the Dem Enablers can get THAT message (they seem not to get the others), and 2- your new affiliation (unlike independent or NPA) actually reflects and says OUT LOUD the values you stand for: end the war, impeachment for the Bush/Cheney, single -payer health plan, sustinable energy and jobs, election reform, passage of ERA and much more. Don't you want to support a party that sounds like your won heart and mind? Help Greens spread YOUR words.

We NEED another party out there saying the right things opening hearts and minds to what really needs to be done to salvage democracy (what there is of it) here.

BeBe wrote: "They do not want to do anything to rock the boat so close to the election."

In other words, they would prefer to be elected vs carrying out their constitutional responsibility. The Republicans are right. The democrats don't believe in any thing. If the situation was reversed, you could bet your life that the republicans wouldn't be sitting on their hands while offering up lame excuses. Look what they did to that sorry bill clinton.

Who among us will do the right thing: a citizen's arrest of this political thug and haul him to Congress.

Re: Anney's mention of a news story on Pelosi. Seems like poor little Nancy is very upset about protestors camped in front of her house who are demanding George's impeachment. And Nancy is SUCH a martyr - she SAYS she's against the war and she STILL being critized for enabling the Bush empire. Could it be because she fails to act on what she says?

In any case, how about sending Nancy a bouquet of flowers to cheer her up? They will be the kind of flowers that are lovely to look at, but wither and die the moment you touch them.

wsws.org website: Though not addressing the couple of points I mentioned re dem's doing a bit of good; 1. heating oil assistance for the poor and 2.not drilling the ANWR....

Your withering analysis and cogent listing of some of Obama's most heinous immoral acts, along with the fact that you neglected to insult me, bring me to a response.

It's this. Although accused of being w/o principle and fooled by the Democratic party line because I've said on CD I'll vote for Obama the truth is this.

I've never, ever voted because I've always been keenly aware that either party made little difference. But truthfully I have thought the Dem's were a little better, Carter than Nixon, Clinton than Reagan. Still similar though.

Then in 2000 the election is stolen, 2004 again, Diebold and SAIC "I'll delver you Ohio George" 9-11 is an inside job, Torture, The 9-11 Commission Report omits all mention of WTC7, Federal Immunity for Spying on Americans, Renditions, A gutted Justice Dept., That lawyer that criticized Cheney and committed Suiced and worst of all Wellstone and Iraq Afghanistan Somalia, Prison Ships and,

And wsws Nader the quintissential 3rd party candidate has been around for years, so has the green party, in this time of horror and death I am going to don protective gear and enter a polling booth- which I never have

FOR ONE EFFING REASON-

To keep McCain/Bush Part Three from happening.

Leaving apart how much potential good a 3rd party might do, with 100 days left, I'm voting for Obama because the Republicans have been so FUCKING SATANIC

I know the Democrats are complicit-it's just my opinion that McCain with his promise of a THREE FRONT WAR,

Will hurt and kill and bomb vastly more people than the warmongering Barack Obama.

Thanks your courteous inquiry and your clear points. I do submit that on this subject no one has a patent on how best to solve our country's crises.

But clearly a McCain-Reign, again w/ a 3 front war promised, would probably well surpass an Obama Monarchy in blood spilled.

If you can tell me how to help elect a 3rd party candidate this '08, I will vote for them. Gratefully.

Otherwise I'll vote against McCain.

Again I thank you for courtesy. All else is negotiable.

Vote smote

Send a little Sgt@Arms with a big taser
and shock TB into the Congressional dungon.

I heard Pelosi MAY let it go to a vote in Sept. They do not want to do anything to rock the boat so close to the election. They don't want voters getting upset that they are going after Bush etc. but I'm thinking what about all of us that are mad that they aren't doing anything. Pelosi needs to be fired along with the rest of the losers. I know Karl and the rest will get theirs someday, somewhere. Look at Stevens (R) from Alaska. He was just indited.

Oops, I forgot Reasons 6 to 9 ...

6.) Afghanistan is the 20th country the United States has bombed since the end of World War II. *Before* Bush started bombing Afghanistan, one out of every 7 Afghans were either starving or in imminent danger of starving. I don't have a statistic on what the current ratio is. I assume it's much worse. … This is the country that Obama wants to send more US troops to -- more US firepower to -- more US military contracts and military contractors to.

7.) Obama has voted to approve every war appropriation the Republicans have put forward, totaling over $450 billion.

8.) The Pentagon budget is over $500 billion dollars a year. Obama wants to increase that budget.

9.) The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are currently costing the US taxpayer
15 billion dollars per month. See http://www.costofwar.com/ Note: The vast majority of the 15 billion dollars per month is going into the hands of those who profit from America's military-industrial complex.

10.) Over 1 million Iraqis have died as a result of Gulf War II. See the following http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/31/6768/ … Quoting from an article by Patrick Martin, "Obama Backs Long-Term US Military Presence in Iraq" –
"In an interview with Newsweek correspondent Richard Wolffe, published on the magazine's web site Saturday (July 26th), Obama emphasized that his policy in Iraq was one of 'phased withdrawal,' in which US troops could remain in large numbers in Iraq for many years. 'They're going to need our help for some time,' he said."
11.) Obama voted to confirm Condeleeeza Rice, as well as a host of other Bush nominees.

12.) In 2006, Obama went out of his way to campaign for Joe Lieberman.

13.) Obama voted to re-authorize the Patriot Act.

14.) Obama voted for the F.I.S.A. bill – after vowing not to.

(Continued)

6.) Afghanistan is the 20th country the United States has bombed since the end of World War II. *Before* Bush started bombing Afghanistan, one out of every 7 Afghans were either starving or in imminent danger of starving. I don't have a statistic on what the current ratio is. I assume it's much worse. … This is the country that Obama wants to send more US troops to -- more US firepower to -- more US military contracts and military contractors to.

7.) Obama has voted to approve every war appropriation the Republicans have put forward, totaling over $450 billion.

8.) The Pentagon budget is over $500 billion dollars a year. Obama wants to increase that budget.

9.) The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are currently costing the US taxpayer
15 billion dollars per month. See http://www.costofwar.com/ Note: The vast majority of the 15 billion dollars per month is going into the hands of those who profit from America's military-industrial complex.

(Continued)

5.) In the same July 2, 2008 speech in Colorado Springs cited above, Obama praised the US military and vowed to increase its ranks. Obama has called for an overall increase of American ground forces by 65,000 soldiers and 27,000 marines, and "investing in the capabilities we need to defeat conventional foes and meet the unconventional challenges of our time."

Last year, writing in "Foreign Affairs" magazine, Barack Obama wrote:

"We must use this moment both to rebuild our military and to prepare it for the missions of the future. We must retain the capacity to swiftly defeat any conventional threat to our country and our vital interests. But we must also become better prepared to put boots on the ground in order to take on foes that fight asymmetrical and highly adaptive campaigns on a global scale."

In short, Obama supports two wars now in progress (Iraq and Afghanistan) and has shown a clear-cut willingness to engage in two more wars (Iran and Pakistan). … Does that sound like a critic of the military-industrial complex or an enabler of the military-industrial complex?

(Continued)

4.) Obama has threatened to invade Pakistan. Quoting Obama from the above-cited op-ed piece:

"The greatest threat to that security lies in the tribal regions of Pakistan, where terrorists train and insurgents strike into Afghanistan. We cannot tolerate a terrorist sanctuary, and as president, I won't. We need a stronger and sustained partnership between Afghanistan, Pakistan and NATO to secure the border, to take out terrorist camps and to crack down on cross-border insurgents.

"We need more troops, more helicopters, more satellites, more Predator drones in the Afghan border region. And we must make it clear that if Pakistan cannot or will not act, we will take out high-level terrorist targets like bin Laden if we have them in our sights."

(Continued)

2.) Months ago, Barack Obama, along with the rest of the Senate, gave George Bush the green light to invade Iran. (The Senate to Bush -- If you invade Iran, we won't object.)

3.) Obama now wants to escalate the war in Afghanistan. In a July 14th "New York Times" op-ed piece, Obama proposed sending 10,000 more troops to Afghanistan.

Interestingly enough, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen, also feel that there are an insufficient number of troops in Afghanistan. And guess how many additional troops they recommend be deployed in Afghanistan -- the same number as Barack Obama, 10,000.

Note: Less than 24-hours after Obama's aforementioned "New York Time" op-ed piece, George Bush, in a White House press conference, indicated that the US and its NATO allies were already initiating a "surge" in Afghanistan.

(Continued)

In a previous post in this thread, Lisa wrote:

"Here it is hours later and not one word out of you Democrat haters in response to my earlier posts... Obama '08"

OK, Lisa, I'm game. Here are ….

15 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA. … (Vote 3rd Party instead!!!)

1.) Barack Obama supports the US presence in Iraq. His position went from that of a "peace candidate" during the primaries to what it is now. That is to say, Barack Obama *now* says that he will defer to the judgment of the commanders in the field. On July 2, 2008, in a speech in Colorado Springs, Obama stated:

"I have always said I would listen to the commanders on the ground. I have always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability."

In other words: I may withdraw troops in 16 months; but, if conditions change, I may not.

Meaning: Obama's current position on Iraq is essentially the same as that John McCain and George Bush.

(Continued)

And what have we done today....how many have emailed or called their Representatives.....oh they don't listen anyway....did you check out my earlier link, there is one possibility of something different you might try......then there is taking to the streets ...talking to friends and strangers to see how they feel....have you considered one of the other parties aside from the two do nothing double stink twins of dems and repubs... what you waing for them to take care of you or even do their Constitutional Duty?

Well they are taking care of us and by the time you figure out the plan what do you think is going to be left?.....Constitution...gone, appears null and void....regulations of corporations, gone......banking regulations...gone along with some folks homes.
How long do you think the FDIC can continue to absorb banks? jobs well hey minimum wages are rising and this is something Pelosi and crew thought was more important than the Constitution?

The impeachment list should include all who have broken with the Constitution and their oaths of office dems and repubs...or else 'merica might just be gone for good.

Time to Awaken and TCB cause doesn't appear we can count on any better than we're putting up with from Washington. Any intelligent discussions
yeah that's a laugh

I've been reasding and posting at commondreams for a while now and I would bet that the overwhelming majority of commondreams readers and posters agree with the overwhelming sentiments of the posters in thei particular thread, i.e., that Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the Democratic leadership are spineless, corporate-bought, corporate-controlled shills.

Two-thirds of the American public is against the war in Iraq. Who represents these millions of Americans? Certainly not the Business Party, that is to say, the Democratic/Republican Party.

The same is true of not just rhe War but virtually every other domestic and international issue -- the Democrats and the Republicans represent the narrow, oligarchic interests of the economic elite.

How can that be stopped by constantly "voting-for-the-lesser-of-the-two-evils"? While, all the while, the political consensus moves more and more to the right.

BFD! Big F*#%ing Deal !

I'm sure Turdblossom is really scared now.
Ms. "Off the Table" has lost any credibility she had.
I sure hope the SanFran voters kick her to the curb.

Let her, Conyers, Reid and the rest of the invertebrate Dems get spinal implants before they are allowed back in D.C.

Voting along party lines, the House Judiciary Committee said that Rove had broke the law by

HAD BROKE THE LAW

Who edits for AP?

Anney writes:

"For some incomprehensible reason, Pelosi does not want to be associated with bringing any of the Bush administration people to justice."

I'm afraid it's not at all incomprehensible, anney. The Democratic Party is part of the same con game as the Republican Party. The Democrats and the Republicans are two wings of the same party, The Business Party.

As for investigating the Republicans on Iraq, the Democratic leadership knows that if they investigate Bush and the Republicans on Iraq, that before they get very far they'll run head-on into their own criminal complicity in the War.

So the Democratic leadership tries to give the impression that they're "doing something" -- especially (surprise!) before the November election -- e.g., shallow, toothless, impeachment hearings ... grandstand rumblings about Rove ... "outrage" at the price of oil. Ya-da-da, ya-da-da, ya-da-da.

Oh yeah, but I forgot, they're soooooooooooooo powerless. After all, they only have control of both houses of Congress. What-can-they-do? What-can-they- do?

To paraphrase that great American philosopher, Don Vito Corlieone, vis-a-vis Johnny Fontaine: "You can act like an oppositional party!!!"

Which of course will never happen. Because for the Democratic Party to act as a genuine oppositional party, they'd have to doublecross their corporate paymasters -- the same corporate paymasters the Republican Party is beholden to.

The only solution is to establish a viable third party movement in the United States.

If the Democrats win the White House in November, their investigations and outrages will be just as "status quo-maintaining" as they are now. (Plus a change, plus c'est la meme chose.) ...

The only alternative is a *real* alternative. Vote McKinney, or else vote Nader, or else vote socialist. Don't passively accept the political duopoly, a.k.a, the Republican/Democratic -- Business
-- Party.

I think the other politicians hated Bill Clinton getting a blow job because they only give them.

Karl Rove needs a perp walk more than any living being, with the possible exceptions of Shotgun Dick and Bu$h the inferior.

Blah blah blah. Most of what the commentators here say is true. Yet, they will continue to vote for either one of the 2 criminal parties and continue to hope for the best. It aint gonna happen folks. Vote for almost anyone except the Dems and the Repugs!

I cannot help but recall this report about some comments Pelosi made about who's "in charge":

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was in a determinedly good mood when she sat down to lunch with reporters yesterday. She entered the room beaming and, over the course of an hour, smiled no fewer than 31 times and got off at least 23 laughs.

But her spirits soured instantly when somebody asked about the anger of the Democratic "base" over her failure to end the war in Iraq.

"Look," she said, the chicken breast on her plate untouched. "I had, for five months, people sitting outside my home, going into my garden in San Francisco, angering neighbors, hanging their clothes from trees, building all kinds of things -- Buddhas? I don't know what they were -- couches, sofas, chairs, permanent living facilities on my front sidewalk."

Unsmilingly, she continued: "If they were poor and they were sleeping on my sidewalk, they would be arrested for loitering, but because they have 'Impeach Bush' across their chest, it's the First Amendment."

Though opposed to the war herself, Pelosi has for months been a target of an antiwar movement that believes she hasn't done enough. Cindy Sheehan has announced a symbolic challenge to Pelosi in California's 8th Congressional District. And the speaker is seething.

"We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow," Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their "passion," Pelosi called it "a waste of time" for them to target Democrats. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100902006_pf.html

The rest of the report is not much better.

It's not beyond belief that Democrats are being blackmailed, or that they are unwilling to open any of these super-sized cans of worms because Democrats and their party will be discredited by the contents.

But the theory that the Democrats are compromised by threats of extortion is far from necessary to explain their unwillingness to act.

The fact that the Democrats and Republicans are monstrous conjoined twins in the first place explains why the seemingly weaker twin is unwilling to raise a hand to the stronger.

This fundamental truth doesn't preclude the possibility that the Democrats may occasionally produce bits of legislation that don't stink to high heaven, and actually do some good. Even a bought-and-sold blind pig might turn up an acorn now and then to toss to loyal constituents. The pig (pardon my metaphor-jumping) actually has a pretty good nose for offering a modicum of rewards necessary to maintain the trust and hope of desperate supporters.

Here it is hours later and not one word out of you Democrat haters in response to my earlier posts-Other than the same tired Asshole calling me names-

But not one word in response to the points I made.

Same as yesterday when I made the SAME two points about the ANWR and the Heating Oil Bill-No Response because these are two clear illustrations of Democrats doing some good.

Anyone want to argue that? Intelligently?

Name calling is easier than refuting a question.

Obama '08

Couldn't have happened to a more contemptable guy! We'll see what happens.....but I'm not holding my breath.

decrepittex,

You are right in your assertion that the Repugnicans have the goods on the Dimocraps who are complicit in this whole scandalous and embarrassing affair. This is why Pelosi will not put impeachment on the table. If Bush is incarcerated for torture, guess who is going to the slammer with him. Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller, and Hoyer met behind closed doors to be briefed on torture and approved it. Pelosi, Hoyer, and Conyers had a private meeting before the impeachment information hearing to ensure nothing comes of it. Problem is, if the emperor has no clothes, neither do many Congresspeople.

I must have missed something... is Pelosi really the Dictatorette Protem of the USA?

well for the most part it looks like" no business " or, "all for show business" politics as usual. Once again Pelosi shows in my opinion that she should be added to the Impeachment and Prosecution List. I am including a related story
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/how-to-perform-a-citizens_b_1511

Seems some (well 4) have awoken, and while not a bridge in Boston this might be a start. At least it gives us more opitions since our illegal government officials refuse to really act and do their Constitutional Duties.
How long would any of us have our jobs and be collecting our pay if we did our job like these good for/do nothings in Congress. And what would be the number on your Prison garb if you acted like this Executive branch? Yet we continue to allow this to go on.

Is it time to awaken yet?

Does anyone but me suspect that Democrats in Congress were
the target of Bush's wiretapping. Someone must have some
information on them, for them to just roll over each and every time. Maybe they are all crooked scum-bags and it really doesn't matter which party is in control. Rove will
get a very lite slap on the hand at most, and everyone will
continue with the rape of liberty in America.

Nancy will do nothing, she kisses bush admin ass and rove is a DICK

Of course, Congress has the right to question anybody. Rove was not elected by anybody, but was appointed by the target-in-chief, who IS entitled to executive privilege but not his minions nor EVEN his "brain."

nancy pelosi said ""I will be asking Chairman Conyers to consider legislation to ensure that the politicization of hiring of career employees at the Justice Department never happens again," Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a statement."

That's right. Pass another law Nancy--obviously your laws leave Bush quaking in his boots. You sicken me. You deserve to lose in the coming election for not carrying out your constitutional responsibilities. Your failures are really no less severe than Bush's in that you are both bringing down our constitutional way of governance.

Check this: I just sent to the Speaker's official email a plea to move forward on impeachment and indictments on any or all members of the Bush Administration (I'd rather use the Decidership). I then worded to Ms. Pelosi that she should stop worrying about what pundidts on Fox News or right wing hate radio would say about her (they slam her anyway anyway!) and start worrying about what history will ay about her, and what those who listen to Democracy Now, or watch Free Speech TV, or listen to Air America or Rhandi Rhodes or Ed Shultz, or read this and the other progressive blogs, might think about her! Don't know if it will work, but after emailing Feinstein, Boxer, Farr, and Pelosi about the illegality of the existence of the Bush Administration, I'm not going to stop until it really is too late, and it ain't too late yet for everyone who's progressive to email or phone Pelosi, and in doing so bitch slap her into moving foward on impeachment and indictment!

Conyers lied as he threw Cindy out of the hearings, Pelosi is complicit in TORTURE, she remained silent and did nothing. They are liars and pigs. Everytime I go there I need 10 showers more than the last hearing. Donate to Cindy every penny helps. Dennis is the only one that refuses to give up and they all laugh at him, except when Elizabeth walks by then they prove what pigs they are. Filth and liars.

Rove and Ken Lay are in the finals of the Paraguay Country Club golf finals, he will be conviently out of country. Please send all correspondence to his lawyers, "Dewey, Cheatem and Howe!"

Pelosi is very sorry. She will be even sorrier after she gets humiliated in the November election by CINDY SHEEHAN.

Wait until Bush is out of office so he can't get a Presidential pardon, then prosecute him for high crimes.

Ooh, I bet Rove is shaking in his boots!

The Romans had much more entertaining circuses.

And they handed out bread, too.

Say what you will about Karl Rove, he is a fat, ugly bastard. Keep your children away!

I have no confidence in Nancy Pelosi whatsoever. Her record is a disgrace.

Look! Its the White House Fat Ass Faggot, Karl Rove!

I bet he misses his boy-toy Jeff Gannon, fake news reporter/gay prostitute......

Give The Great Doughy Nerd some of his own medicine: get one of his bow ties and hang him by his feet from a cage at Guantanamo. Then walk away and leave him there. Or there's always the 1984 Treatment: put his head in a cage full of starving rats. Then walk away and leave him there. You can also put Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer and Conyers in there with him. This will not put a stop to the empire or halt the decline of the republic; it would just feel so good that, at last, one or more of these contemptible villains GOT THEIRS.

re: Pelosi: 1) her hub is an MIC player/investor, so the pressure is there to let things be, 2)She was briefed, along with others on the torturing going on, and did nothing about it. She is afraid of getting drug down into the muck with the rest. Well, isn't that just great? Too late Senorita; capt. karma never forgets. Its just a matter of seeing how it all comes out, not if, but when I would say. Used to be things could be hidden, but now... not so likely.

There is a great amount of contempt and cynical rhetoric here but it is warranted considering the circumstances.

The Free Thinking Progressives who read the articles in CommonDreams as well as Altnet, the Nation and so many others; now have the impetus to come together and demand that the elected officials who are in power to control the excesses of the other elected officials get off the collective "buttocks" and prosecute. They certainly would be busy, might even qualify for "overtime pay"; in the form of REELECTION.

Keep in mind that the crimes that so many want an impeachment process to be directed at have statute of limitations, but the international crimes this administration has committed do not. In every other court of law the more serious crimes are prosecuted first, the lesser are often set aside, or at least take a lesser importance.

The people should not expect the Democrats to do as much as they have the power to do. If not for a few twists and turns of fate; the same complaints now levied against the Bush/Republicans could be just as likely to be applied to a Democratic Pres. They all are in the "septic tank" to get what they can from the mess that the American people have allowed to take place with their political arena.

In fact the system is so very corrupt that it would hardly matter who was elected to high offices in Washington, when the entire the system is corrupt, the people come along and join in and "feed the beast". They do not want reform any more than they want to see criminal charges brought against the Bush administration; it might impact them directly or in the future. Some might even be thinking "if not for fate/the grace of god/chance/ etc ; "I could be there".

The American people are the only answer to the problem they helped create with their own inaction in the past.

They can change it any time they want.

Hopefully the Progressive Movement will lead the way.

The Conservative movement could just as easily make it worse and might even be happy to do it for the Progressive movement.

The difference is in the action and who takes it to what direction.

lisa3210peace (12:57 pm), the noted bird brain, claims, "...This is an example of Democrats doing a little bit of good. Just a little, but still some."

- No, Lisa, it is not an example of Democrats "doing a little bit of good." It is an example of Democrats letting Rove get away with murder, offering only the shallowest possible pretense of doing anything about it. The pretense is extraordinarily feeble & transparent -- but clearly good enough to fool dimwits like you.

Look at the picture in the article. Does Rove (casually taking in a ball game) look very worried to you?

Pelosi (and Conyers) have failed the American people… Vote for Cindy and wish her well and dump Pelosi and wish her good riddance. And send Rove to jail where he rightfully belongs.

LoL! Nothing will come of this. Once again the Democrats will prove themselves ineffective except in lining their pockets.

Here's an idea: Send the Sergeant-at-arms to arrest Rove, Myers and the other foot draggers and bring them before Congress!

Congress can call anybody it wants to testify, whether or not said witness thinks their testimony is relevant to anything. The person called on is required by law to show up.

By wringing their hands and doing nothing, Congress has allowed an executive coup d'etat that puts an end to our system of checks and balances.

All of this is bullsh*t. Do I hear "inherent contempt"? This is all meaningless foot dragging. Nothing will happen. It'll go to court for 6 months to a year. Oh, but we might get another strongly worded letter out of Conyers. Terrific........

This is an example of Democrats doing a little bit of good. Just a little, but still some.

And a typically concurrent example on Common Dreams where it is all black and white. All the Democrats are the same or worse than the Republicans all the time.

Not true. In Congress now Democrats are trying to pass a Fuel Heating Oil Assistance Bill whlich would help the Poor.
Republcans are blocking it.

Republicans want to poke holes in the ANWR. Democrats are fighting this effort.

Sure they are all whores.
But the Republicans kick the door in and strong-arm you halfway through the act.
The Democrats just F you for money and leave.

I'm for fuel oil for poor, no drilling in the ANWR-little things, but Democrat led in Congress, Today and not un-typical.

This is an example of Democrats doing a little bit of good. Just a little, but still some.

And a typically conccurrent example on Common Dreams where it is all black and white. All the Democrats are the same as Republicans allthe time.

Not true. In Congress now Democrats are trying to pass a Fuel Heating Oil Assistance Bill whlich would help the Poor.
Republcans are blocking it.

Sure they are all whores.
But the Republicans kick the door in and strongarm you halfway through the act.
The Democrats just F you for money and leave.

Kudos, Ms. Pelosi!
Keep up the good work and soon, very soon, the approval rating for Congress could rise to, shall we even dream it, above 10%.

Why, with your continued proficiency and leadership your approval rating could even rise enough to match George Bush's.

Rove is laughing at Democrats, as he should.

Even without Bush's pardon, Rove will be fine. He has so much dirt on Democrats, he knows they can't touch him. That's what happens when you elect Tweedledee to keep an eye on Tweedledum.

For some incomprehensible reason, Pelosi does not want to be associated with bringing any of the Bush administration people to justice. She wants to stay focused on purely domestic issues and more Democrats in Congress. It's as though she's either blinded herself to the urgent need for the rule of law or has herself broken the law (her refusal to bring the illegal torture of detainees to the attention of Congress way back when she had knowledge of it) and doesn't want to risk her own neck.

I don't think she'll allow this to go anywhere.

Well, good for them. Only about three years too late. This will result in an official, "Letter of Strong Dissappointment", but Pelosi will be afraid to sign it.

Hang him high!

Anyone want to take any bets that Pelosi does nothing and lets this die?