Timothy McVey, Jim Adkisson, Bruce Ivins, George Bush, Dick Cheney. All responsible for unprovoked mass deaths of others. All angry white guys.

McCain zealots want us to subliminally fear Osama because he's black. Shouldn't we fear McCain because he's angry and white?

Another "red state" terrorist who should be getting shipped off to Guantanamo.

miftin

Its just a broad brush definition but I think you will like this song...

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/ochs-phil/love-me-im-a-liberal-11453.html

sample lyrics:

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Artist: Phil Ochs
Song: Love Me, I'm a Liberal
Album: There But for Fortune

I just love the way most of these posters throw out the terms "liberal" and "left" as though they mean the same thing. The American "liberal" establishment are a bunch of warmongers and you haven't had any real "leftists" since Norman Thomas died. Somewhere in between lie the wives of the petty bourgeois with their bookstores and public libraries, along with a bunch of UU college professors who would probably run the other way from an actual labor organizer.

^^^

No doubt colleen.

iwarrior

Some conservatives would probably like to see a gun war between people they consider losers like Adkisson and the left.... thus getting rid of two birds with one stone. And liberals would then be more fearful of expressing opinions...

Media need fight media. In it's OWN ballpark.

"The local religious froth are already talking about 'praying for them' not because of the shooting, but because they are 'lost'."

And they're most likely poor people being swindled by wealthy interests.

"Go read any right wing news board…you'll find some condemnation of the shooting but more jokes about how a church was putting on "Annie"."

Again, they most likely are not of the upper crust. They know not what they do.

"Remember folks: He's a Conservative so he's mentally ill but if he were a Muslim, he would be a terrorist."

Actually, I think most wealthy conservatives would see this unemployed, mentally ill man as a loser and dreg of society. The ones who aren't wealthy are dupes. I highly doubt there is an army of rich Republicans waiting to get someone like Mr. Adkisson off the hook.

I mean, they might have liked what he did, but they're not going to be rushing to save him from prison either. People like Mr. Adkisson are but cannon fodder.

If you ask me, Common Dreams needs less liberalism and more socialism.

"Or, you could stop being idiots about guns, and a couple other issues, and come over to the right side of things!"

I'm sorry I ever responded to you.

This is what a normal western nation does about the ownership of guns:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060225125951/http://www.handgunbuyback.gov.au/

as opposed to the US which is a violent nation....in words and in deeds.

Also Black Feather you made a strange comment about Australia and guns...perhaps you should read what Snopes has about guns in Australia

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Black feather

I am not impressed by what I have seen in hunters...like Dick Cheney. There are too many accidents for me to believe that more guns are the answer...

Americans are very naive people imo. they think that good will always win....and they think people can be pure...they look for politicians who are pure to protect the good of America. In reality all politicians will lie and its just as well they do...the world is not honest and trustworthy... The president will have to lie well to do well in this world

I have moved to Canada...where people are more reasonable..and I am hoping to bring my family here eventually.

Take a look at what jack posted for his class in how to use a gun

"Every day with guns is a good day. And the time is coming when we and our guns are going to take care of all the liberals who are ruining this country."

Still think all people need is some training and they will be able to handle a gun? Well You have not lived in the South.....

We are looking at a covert op here, using another mind-controlled patsy.

--From one of the people who tackled the gunman: "The only thing he said was he was asking us to get off of him, that he wasn't doing anything," Parkey said.

This indicates Adkisson had no conscious knowledge of what just occured.

A neighbor told 10News Adkisson described himself as a "Confederate" and a "believer in the old South." She says Adkisson self-identified in this way to her on more than one occasion, but that she didn't know what he meant by it. This reminds me of Wedgewood Baptist Church shooter Larry Gene Ashbrook(9-16-99, Ft Worth, TX, 8 dead), who was linked to a far-right group called the Phineas Priesthood by a local reporter. Buford Furrow, who shot up a Jewish day-care center in Los Angeles in August of '99, was also allegedly linked to that group.

They are painting the guy as being anti-'liberal'; this could be an indication that even the traditional liberal left is getting ready to jump the NWO ship, and this op was designed to stampede them back into the pro-gun control line.

The reason the books by right-wing radio talk show hosts were found at his home is part of a slow moving attack on talk radio. Like the internet, they want to get rid of all public forums. I doubt somebody on food stamps would spend any money on these books, so I figure they were planted.

Note also the military is being very cagey on Adkisson's military records, which show Adkisson was a private in the U.S. Army on active duty from 1974 to 1977. He served as a helicopter repairman for the 101st Airborne Division at Fort Campbell. The military wouldn't release Adkisson's discharge status. Sounds like he did something bad, got busted down in rank and given a Bad Conduct Discharge(BCD). So what's the big secret? Probably because he was confined to the mental wing of a military hospital.
There was also some talk of Adkisson being a Vietnam Vet. He graduated high school in 1968, and didn't go to college, so he would have been subject to the draft.

iwarrior July 30th, 2008 1:36 am: "What makes anyone think that the right-wing will rally around this guy?"

Easy.

The local religious froth are already talking about 'praying for them' not because of the shooting, but because they are 'lost'. Go read any right wing news board...you'll find some condemnation of the shooting but more jokes about how a church was putting on "Annie".

Remember folks: He's a Conservative so he's mentally ill but if he were a Muslim, he would be a terrorist.

What an impressive resume!
He shot 9 people before he was subdued. He hates gays. He's vehemently anti-liberal. He was able to conceal and quick draw a .12 gauge shotgun. He has no problem shooting unarmed civilians.
Looks like Blackwater has a sweet employment prospect.

UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST PRINCIPLES

The Knoxville shooter picked the UU congregation because of its support for "liberal" social causes. UUs do not have a dogma or creed (justification through faith, the Nicene Creed etc), but teach and try to live their lives based on a set of principles that they consider to be universal.

These are the principles from which grew the social activism that so enraged the Knoxville shooter:

----------------------------------------------

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, convenant to affirm and promote:

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

* Justice, equity, and compassion in human relations;

* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
----------------------------------------------
(Source: the By-Laws of the Unitarian Universalist Association, cited in The Unitarian Universalist Pocket Guide, 1993)

Ted, liberals are probably MORE tolerant of ambiguity. Keep in mind people like the shooter here see things pretty goshdarn unambiguously. Worry not though, as it is the liberals ability to see shades of grey that IS your reason to be decisive and cohesive.

Or, you could stop being idiots about guns, and a couple other issues, and come over to the right side of things!

"The church's website speaks of its "long and rich history of taking stands for social justice," and said it has fought since the 1950s for racial desegregation, fair wages and equal treatment for women and homosexuals. It provides sanctuary for political refugees and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The church hosts social events for gay and lesbian teens."

Not bad. I wonder about the class dimension here. The shooter claimed liberals were taking jobs he should have had-- perhaps because liberals are more educated and wealthier. Of course the shooter was demented and scapegoating. Doesn't the liberal (as opposed to socialist) worldview neglect working people?

With his avowed hatred of 'gays' and 'liberals' this guy MUST be a Republican...

Ariel Sharon,

Your handle is very appropriate.

Thoughts_Into_Actions' post of the study about conservatives ended thusly:

"The variables we talk about are general human dimensions... These are the same dimensions that contribute to loyalty and commitment to the group. Liberals might be less intolerant of ambiguity, but they may be less decisive, less committed, less loyal."

The last sentence is what resonates with me, as a liberal. And, honestly, I can see myself in this. Does this mean that I (and liberals in general) will always be in the margins as the black-and-white absolutists march on with blinkered certainty? Can we liberals retain our ability to see shades of gray yet learn to be more decisive and cohesive? Is there a set of tenets that we can agree on that would help to hold our fragmentary group together so that we're not always merely reacting to attacks from the right?

Dunno. I hope that we can come together around something. I think it would help all liberals/progressives to start asking ourselves tough questions and challenging our assumptions. Something the right is loathe to do.

Fucking IDIOT!

I don't like liberals much myself, but they obviously aren't responsible for the countries' problems, when republicans have been in control of the presidency for the vast majority of recent history. What liberal policies have even been enacted since civil rights???

He shot the wrong people.

"Ted, you sound like a UU."

Thank you - I take that as a compliment.

Ted, you sound like a UU.

Thoughts_Into_Action July 30th, 2008 12:28 am

"Clearly, the man is mentally ill, and apparently has no family to pull him back from the brink. One study found that conservatism itself is a mental illness, which I find persuasive, or at least you can say that conservatism is profoundly antisocial.

"There are very few violent left-wing groups. However, almost all right-wing groups are aggressive and antisocial, bordering on genocidal at times."

You make some very valid points, T_I_A.

First, the modern strain of conservatism is in my eyes, antisocial. From their high regard to personal rights in the extreme to their antagonism toward social spending, it appears as if they are by all accounts, socially inhibited (one might say, phobic) and just plain angry. This is a very dangerous mix, as we have witnessed time and again.

As things heat up in this country due to the perfect storm of political, environmental, and social crises, it doesn't take much imagination to see who will respond violently.

I know of no other way to counter this than to live my life in accordance with how I want this world to be. In my heart of hearts, I can see no other way to get there.

"McCain doesn't have a prayer of winning. Zero, nada, none, no chance."

With current McCain/Obama poll numbers at 40/45% respectively, he's guaranteed to win by default if more than 5% of Liberals vote for McKinney, Nader, or Calero.

et another Christian Army Of Idiots preemptive strike

Too bad General Sherman didn't get rid of more of that gene pool when he made his very patriotic journey thru enemy-idiot territory. Not total enough total war
___________________________________________________
I'm surprised that no one has called out the idiot who wrote this. Or are all the readers of this site so used to having right-wing agents posting here that they don't even notice it?

You're allowing the insidious doctrine of racial purity to creep into civilized discussion.

If found guilty of these crimes, I hope that Mr. Adkisson won't be sentenced to death. Killing him would only drag society down to his level.

I inherited some firearms from my WWII elders, and got a license for them meaning I had to take a safety course. The big, burly buzz-cut State Trooper who taught the class made his opening remarks: "Every day with guns is a good day. And the time is coming when we and our guns are going to take care of all the liberals who are ruining this country." I swear to God these were his opening words. So I raised my hand and asked how "they" were going to identify the right people to shoot. "Oh, we'll know," he laughed. Ha Ha Ha. Couldn't agree more with the points above---that this nut-job was most likely filled with scapegoat-hatred by Talk Radio, which is All Hate All The Time 24/7. Even at a party I meet similar white guys all over---"What's wrong with the country is the liberals, the welfare people, the lawyers, the ACLU..." And when Tom Snokraw had Al Gore on "Meet The Press" his first six questions were virtually identical to Rush Limbaugh talking-points. "So you want to be Prince Albert and run the party from outside without accountability, right?" said Tom Broke-brain. "Why don't you want to be elected President, Al?" "I have already been elected President," Gore answered---and Schlock-craw just sort of sighed and moved on. That pesky truth just keeps worming in everywhere! We are surrounded by idiots all too eager to blame anything except the capitalism that is fucking us all.

Bigotry can be very destructive but other forces lead to events like this one. Posting armed guards at churches seems a little extreme to me.

I'm sure Rev. Hagee and his ilk are crowing with delight.

Many people who are liberal in their world view, eventually find that they really are UUs, if they are lucky. I live in a very red county in a blue state and feel blessed to have found the UUs in my community a few years ago.

It is a wonderful congregation of which to be a part. UUs acknowledge the central "truth" in all religions while rejecting doctrine that is exclusive in its nature. Some news accounts have a neighbor who says that Jim Adkisson was someone who felt wounded by his bible upbringing. Too bad he came in shooting because he would have found sympathy for his attitude that the bible contradicts itself in many places. Unfortunately, he never found his spiritual side and believed the condemnation part of Christianity and skipped over its message of salvation.

UUs know that we are all in this spaceship earth ride together. We seek to understand creation in terms of the big bang theory and the wonder of our cosmos. We see the glory in evolution of the universe and humans and believe in seeking to live a meaningful life filled with as much love as we can find and give. Michael Dowd's, "Thank God for Evolution" is an excellent text.

Our religious ancestors rejected the Roman version of Jesus, which reduced his life and wisdom into a god made man myth, which was not uncommon in the various religions during that period of time. I am not sure what a soul is, but I do know that one ignores the spiritual side of life at their own risk. Most of us find meaning in life by getting some understanding of this part of our existence.

I hope that this poor crazy unhappy man will not be executed and will be the subject of much study. I think much could have been learned about how Timothy McVeigh got so twisted. How much attention did Jim and Tim give to Mr. Limbaugh and Ms. Coulter?

I think some of you need to take a cue from the Amish.

What makes anyone think that the right-wing will rally around this guy? What makes anyone think that they would care about him? They'll distance themselves from him, and then attack liberals for associating them and their views with Adkisson's demented actions. Look at the phony indignation the right-wingers exhibit any time one of their own is compared to Hitler.

Hell, they are complicit in the neglect of the soldiers who fight the wars they start and support.

If it were up to the Repugs he'd get his own radio show.

Quite tragic, more senseless death.

Unfortunately, it sounds a lot like the plot from the movie, "Falling Down," about an unemployed defense worker.

Clearly, the man is mentally ill, and apparently has no family to pull him back from the brink. One study found that conservatism itself is a mental illness, which I find persuasive, or at least you can say that conservatism is profoundly antisocial.

Another factor apparently at play here is the strain of unemployment without relief, which promises to crush many here in the United States, both liberal and conservative. Someone above mentioned the ticking time bomb of shell-shocked vets - not good.

There are very few violent left-wing groups. However, almost all right-wing groups are aggressive and antisocial, bordering on genocidal at times.

Folks are correct to point to right-wing radio and its stream of hate. You can get plenty of that on the U.S. public airwaves, but almost no antiwar commentary - at least on the mainstream outlets.

Colleen

I'm not assuming anything, but when people are licensed to carry (at least in Oregon where I live and California where I used to live) training is mandatory as is an extensive background check. Felons, domestic abusers, drug users, etc, can't get a permit. I read that there has been only one case of an illegal shooting by a permit holder in Oregon in the last ten years. If the brave one had had a permit he probably wouldn't have missed.

"What if 10 people had had guns and all had started shooting? and at whom would they shoot?..at first no one knew what was happening." Well I think that the guy with the shotgun would have been the obvious target. Somebody sure knew who to tackle right away.

Your "white hats" comment is just silly, but "its a myth that guns in the hands of many people will offer protection…" deserves a response. Do some research on how the violent crime rate has soared in Australia since the Zionists managed to get all guns banned there.

"Adkisson should not have had a gun." Simplistic, like saying "People who drink shouldn't have a car." If we did away with alcohol and cars there wouldn't be any auto accidents.

Finally, "The US is a violent nation with violent people." That is a pretty broad generalization because the US is some pretty good things also, (like the Unitarians, the Quakers and this site) however I do agree with it which is why as the man said, "I'd rather have a gun and not need it then need a gun and not have it."

Peace, but keep your powder dry.

He's a poster child for the NRA and Conservative Right. They are high-fivin' in the Pentagon: "He's one of our own, let's get him the best lawyer team the Bush administration can buy. It's the insanity plea plus we can get him off on a technicality."

blackfeather

You are assuming that the shot would have been accurate. When people are untrained and carry guns they are dangerous also.

What if 10 people had had guns and all had started shooting? and at whom would they shoot?..at first no one knew what was happening..

The good guys don't always win and they do not wear white hats..when people carry guns the danger increases ....its a myth that guns in the hands of many people will offer protection...

Adkisson should not have had a gun.

The US is a violent nation with violent people...imo

The Cumberland Times-News called him an unemployed truck driver, not an unemployed mechanical engineer. The local newspaper publisher must have some friends who are mechanical engineers.

Colleen

While the Unitarian who "allowed himself to be killed to save others," was indeed brave, it was Adkisson who should have died that day. Had he been packing, the brave one might have committed an act of self defense rather than one of self sacrifice.

It's so sad how so many disenfranchised people are so misguided in their anger. They would kill the very people who are essentially on their side.

Elites clink their glasses over such acts of self-sabotage on the parts of workers.

I could go on and on about what a piece of garbage this person is, but he's really just a poor, sick dupe.

"Adkisson will never stand trial, and the Left will be blamed for his death, which will deflct the real issue into a black hole..."

Which is ironic, because in a true socialist democracy, one not controlled by right-wing elites, Jim Adkisson would most likely be employed, would have easy and free access to mental health care, and thusly wouldn't have harmed a single soul.

These jackals at the very top have us all maiming and killing each other for their benefit.

SavetheBor,

I agree. I am thinking of the physical evidence in this case, which is Adkisson's possession of one of Savage's books. If he has possession of Hannity's book, or O'Reilly's, terrific, more right-wingnuts to implicate. I know this is wishful thinking, and as Ted Markow points out, it mostly likely will have to be tried in the court of public opinion. But wouldn't it be wonderful for Adkisson to claim that Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly and others made him do it (which obviously would not stick in court), and implicate them in the trial? Yes, God forbid these three goons have to appear in court to protect their sorry asses! Sorry, just wishful thinking.

Blackfeather

A Unitarian stepped in front of that gun and allowed himself to be killed to save others. Another Unitarian held the murderer down and shouted for others to get out..because he thought there might have been a bomb in the paper bag the murderer was carrying.

I think those are incredibly brave acts and no gun was used. When many people own guns the situation becomes more dangerous.

This is Tennessee

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/31139/tennessee_electoral_college

Tennessee: McCain 51%, Obama 36%
July 02, 2008

"Republican John McCain could carry the Volunteer State in this year's United States presidential election, according to a poll by Rasmussen Reports. 51 per cent of respondents in Tennessee would vote for the Arizona, senator, while 36 per cent would support Democratic Illinois senator Barack Obama."

Of course it wouldn't be PC for my fellow Unitarians to be armed in church, but an alert person with a healthy sense of Zenshin and a concealed weapons permit might have saved at least one of those two lives. I wish more of my fellow lefties would wake up to the present reality. When guns are outlawed only the Military, the Police, Blackwater and right wing assholes like this cracker will have guns. Remember the Spanish Civil War? Git 'em while you can my brothers and sisters. Git 'em while you can.

I am also a Unitarian Universalist and was once the religious education director at the Unitarian Church in Oak Ridge Tennessee. My sons, daughter in law and grand child are also Unitarians, and I was very upset but not surprised by this shooting. When there are people like Ann Coulter who claims that liberals do not believe in God and Christians like Hagee who are ready to start a civil war...I am not surprised by this shooting...

My family is not safe in America.

Small correction about the Universalists..they believed that God was so good that all humans would receive salvation..it would be universal forgiveness for our sins. You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_of_America

The Unitarians and Universalists united in 1961

Samson

I hope you are right Samson...at your post at 5:58 pm..but I lived in Oak Ridge and they vote Republican...Tennessee is Al Gores state and they did not vote for him in his presidential bid. Gore's father voted against the Viet Nam War and lost his election in Tennessee because of that vote.

Others have alluded to this, but the story-behind-the-story is the uniquely USAn, profoundly twisted, 180 degree wrong, mis-assignment of blame so predominant among the US working class. Instead of blaming their capitalist bosses for their woes, they blame "liberals", "taxes", and "big government".

QUARK

I saw Lee Harvey Oswald murdered live on TV as a teenager, and the same people still run things in America. Adkisson will never stand trial, and the Left will be blamed for his death, which will deflct the real issue into a black hole.

Betting the farm on this is a sure thing ......... so get back to me when it happens.

SavetheBOR July 29th, 2008 8:18 pm

"And what of O'Reilly, Huckabee, and FOX commentators who have made comments about shooting or lynching one of the Obama's? if god forbid anything happened to one of them?"

I'm sure you're not the only one to have this cross their mind. As more shit hits the fan and we suffer more repercussions from right-wing thuggish tactics, anger and desperation will start boiling over. It always happens when the rich get too big for their pants. Stay tuned.

"But I am wondering if a slick attorney could at least snare Savage in this particular case, which would be a start."

Hmmm, I wonder what F. Lee Bailey is doing?

It would be a wonderful precedent to see one of these radio thugs brought down in court. I think, however, that it will have to be the court of We, the People, who finally do the deed. Not that I'm inciting anyone to violence, just to smart, well aimed tactics to start showing these Nazis for what they are.

"Since this guy had Savage's book at home, is it too far fetched to implicate Savage for inciting hatred against liberals?"

And what of O'Reilly, Huckabee, and FOX commentators who have made comments about shooting or lynching one of the Obama's? if god forbid anything happened to one of them?

Ted Markow,

I wholeheartedly agree that we should include the other people you listed. And you are correct in your assertion that they will never admit their complicity. But I am wondering if a slick attorney could at least snare Savage in this particular case, which would be a start.

Quark: " If one's faith is only in one's beliefs, and not in one's good deeds, what is it worth, anyway? " ~ Very well said!

(- and your Minister sounds like a great soul too!)

NeoFauve: @ 1:46pm... Great points!
NativeSon: thanks too for yr intelligent comments.
Overkill: Yours too, - I was going to make similar points.

Yes, Redcelt: " ...Judge this man's actions within the context that caused them, an economic system that values profits uber alles..."

Also GreenerThanThou, JBPM, Hedology, Sllawrence, Samson, Urthsong, Claudius, Miftin, Conscience, Militantliberal, Ted Markow, Poet, _and others: You've all made points which I think are very pertinent:

That demented being in Tennessee is but a symptom of *a very sick society*.
He may well stand trial, -- but someone could well build a stadium-sized court house now, so that ALL of the sick characters who vent appalling hatred towards any not exactly of their unwholesome breed, can likewise be bought to book...

The hate-mongers, the war-mongers, the industrial-strength arrogance and separatism which so pervades the USA, are all an *illness*, --a ghastly plague, but unlike typhoid or the common cold, it is (sinfully) being deliberately and consciously spread.
The infected old spread it to the young, so that they too then become sick with this truly *God-forsaken* malaise.

Which part of "Love thy neighbour" do they fail to understand?

There's not a chance that God will, 'Bless America'! – not for as long as so many of her wayward citizens continue to behave in such a prehensile and hateful manner.
If this dire situation isn't turned around in good time, the only 'blessing' may turn out to be similar to that which Atlantis finally experienced in it's last days, when it too failed to correct itself...

...Even today the Californian earth quaked...

__________________

** You U.S. Progressives are the Light and the Hope of your nation. **
__________________

There's an urgent need to totally reject the scheming blandishments of the status quo / establishment, and re-ignite the TRUE Spirit of America! - that which flies and soars eagle-high over her present social / cultural abyss.

Let thousands of reborn Tom Paines, MLK's and Henry Thoreaus (et al) lead us into courageously outwitting / re-educating those dead-hearted dullards who are still immersed in tragic mires of old-age barbarity.

We've got New Minds, New Hearts, and a New World to build.

~ Let's at it!

U-C-D
xx

Beyond the ugliness of the death and violence, there is something perversly wierd about this entire incident. The murderer's letter sounds like it was written by a consortium of Christo-fascists spokespersons like Pat Robertson, John Hagee, James Dobson, etc

Good ol' white boy, airborn vetern, out of work, angry at Liberals. Some of police chief Owen's comments don't inspire too much confidence either,"I don't think he intended to leave alive","hatred for the Liberal movement","had been planning the attack for weeks".

This sounds like the kind of mind control conditioning that led Sirhan Sirhan to confess to the execution of Bobby Kennedy even though repeated questioning could not determine a motive or how he knew Bobby would be going through the kitchen when that decision was not made until the moment they were ready to leave the Ambassador Hotel.

This guy needs to be thoroughly probed and examined for indications of mind control tampering. Now who would benefit from directing an assassin to go wild in a "Liberal Church"? Hmmm.....

claudius July 29th, 2008 6:38 pm

"Since this guy had Savage's book at home, is it too far fetched to implicate Savage for inciting hatred against liberals?"

Why stop at Savage? Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Ingraham, Levin, Larson... The list goes on and on. These cowardly and irresponsible reprobates will be the last to ever admit their complicity in inflaming violence against liberals by their fearful minions.

"I wonder what the Conservative Christians think about this?"

Be prepared to lol:

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=54177

This (alleged) murderer shows why the Republican party has a mass base in this country. There's the conservative entitlement mentality: I deserve a good living because I'm [fill in the blank, e.g. white, middle class, an engineer], and if I don't get it I'll blame some minority that I feel superior to rather than those who own the banks and businesses, and the politicians they control. Because I need to be above others! Then there's the hypocrisy. This guy was on food stamps even though he was able-bodied and below retirement age. Surely he has raged against "sniveling welfare cheats" at some point in his past?

This guy is the rightwing's "Manchurian Candidate" . .

The elite create poverty and crime and then blame it on
liberal government ---

This guy is so spun around by O'Reilly and Hannity, I'm
grateful this is all he succeeded in doing!

This isn't new . . . we also saw this aggressive move by the right wing to send out the nuts when Clinton became president.

When the rightwing becomes fearful of not being able to
at least pull off another steal --- keep your eyes open
and watch carefully!!!

You've got nearly an entire town in western Maryland who think like this guy if they are able to think at all. Fascists have been indoctrinating these locals for many years. Rush Limbaugh plays every day on the local radio in addition to a fascist local talk show host, the editorial page of the newspaper runs Cal Thomas or Bill O'Reilly or some other so-called "conservative" every five out of six days, and the so-called "liberal" viewpoint amounts to that of some syndicated wishy-washy moderate.

Today's paper runs a large photo of the local senile Republican Congressman, Roscoe Bartlett, handing a belated medal to a World War II vet. this is at least the third time Roscoe Bartlett has been in the newspaper awarding belated medals to WW II vets.

The USDA just awarded $50,000 to Allegany County schools, and the superintendent is using all of it to increase video surveillance and purchase two-way radios to keep the schools in close contact with Homeland Security. the ruling fascist's idea of a profitable business around here involves video slot machines. They tore down one of the last affordable housing project where blacks lived, and now they're going to build townhouses for sale in its place. So they're come up with six or seven different names for the townhouse project, all but two having something to do with African-American history, and are in the newspaper wanting local citizens to vote on the name. The other two names are those of a deceased local banker and also a former president of the Kelly-Springfield Tire Company, of which a retired CEO is now the mayor. Otherwise, it's "Duke Ellington Plaza" or "Frederick Douglass Square" etc...This is pretty ironic given that the local establishment is doing its level best to purge black people from this area who probably can't afford to buy one of those new townhouses anyway.

Maybe I should go down to the small, local U.U. Fellowship and stand guard outside every Sunday.

Gee, I wonder which name will win?

Since this guy had Savage's book at home, is it too far fetched to implicate Savage for inciting hatred against liberals?

There's the home-grown terrorist that American politicians and commentators have been warning us about for the last seven years.

At my UU congregation last night, we held a vigil much as UUs all over the nation did. There was much said of sorrow, fear and even of anger. But nothing was said of hate. The anger was directed to the man's unemployment situation, the dearth of access to mental health care, the teaching of hatred that he had learned as well as the fragility of our existence. I understand that Adkisson had a book at home written by Michael Savage claiming liberal thinking is mental illness. Imagine! An entire book claiming that written by a media celebrity. No. UUvies will continue to pursue reasoned, moral understanding and actions. When King non-violently marched in Alabama, many UUvies were there. One UUA minister was killed and eulogized by King. Three of our first six presidents were Unitarians including the author of our Declaration of Independence. Are we UUvies being naive, unrealistic or being taken advantage of when we refuse to buy into hatred, intolerance and injustice? I know we have some Republicans in our congregation. I do not believe that liberal thinking is reserved to one political party. The noun has been demonized by those who would teach hate and divide our nation for their own reasons.

"the church to be a bastion of liberalism in an otherwise socially conservative area of eastern Tennessee."

That's just a British paper saying they don't know @#$%$ other than stereotypes themselves.

Knoxville is a decent sized urban area. Such urban areas are always more liberal than the conservative hinterlands around them. Knoxville is also a major university city, which is also usually a pretty good indicator that its more liberal that other areas.

The typical voting pattern in most areas like this is that liberals and Democrats do pretty well in the cities. Certainly in the true urban areas. Sometimes its balanced out by having more conservative areas in suburbs that are within the city limits. And even those 'conservative suburbs' are more conservative soccer moms than they are crazy, gun-toting, religious extremists. I'd have very little doubt that almost everyone in those conservative suburbs are also shocked, saddened and sickened by this.

Its just as wrong for the left to smear its enemies with hateful stereotypes as it is the other way around.

The bit about liberals taking his jobs is fascinating actually.

If you read Paul Craig Roberts, he writes constantly on the decline of engineering jobs in America. He makes the rather obvious point that if you send the manufacturing jobs overseas, the engineering jobs will follow. Makes sense since in many ways engineering is just building and improving the machines that are used to manufacture.

This of course is the policy of corporate executives and big shareholders. They are the ones who get the bonuses and the profits when a company makes more profit by using cheaper labor overseas.

But, of course, these same corporate executives and shareholders own most the media in this country. So the last thing they would do would be to honestly tell people what the real cause of the problem is. And one would suspect that the thing that could make them nervous would be if most Americans started to figure our who is really responsible for the economic hard times we face individually.

Thus, the propaganda myth that 'its the liberals' fault is put forward instead. And fools like this believe it.
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The right has long been pushing the idea that free speech should be restricted such that anyone who's preaching leads to terror acts can be shut up and prosecuted. This of course is aimed at islamic clerics who are supposed to be teaching hatred that leads to terror attacks.

But, in this case you've got people on the radio who are well paid to preach very similar hatred against those their corporate masters have deemed the enemy. And its done very deliberately to mislead the very people who are screwed by their economic policies into not correctly blaming the same corporate masters for their problems.

Isn't that at least as serious problem to society as some rogue islamic cleric?

Im with Garvey @12:36pm

Isn't this a nearly perfect example of "terrorism"? Shouldn't we put all people with these kinds of values and political views on a "Watch" list? Shouldn't they be spied on, wiretapped, and have any organizations they are apart of infiltrated? Thats sure what they do to us "leftists", and none of us have hurt anybody.

On a much more sad note, my condolences to those who died watching a childrens play.

MS is as wrong as usual. Get out and really see America, and you'll realize that nut jobs like this are not anywhere near the majority.

I count what, 5, 6,7 in the last 10 years or more.

You've got this fool. You've got Eric Rudolph who set the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics and some more at abortion clinics and a gay\lesbian bar. You've got a guy who gunned down abortion doctors. I remember a racist in Illinois who went on a killing spree.

Even if I missed a few, in a nation of 300,000,000 that's no where near a majority.

Some poll numbers for the blind and misinformed.
-Bush has a job approval rating in the low 20's.
-Cheney has a job approval rating getting down near single digits.
-Congress has a job approval rating that is in single digits precisely because of their failure to stand up to Bush and Cheney.
-The Iraq war has an approval rating of the low 20's. When given options on when to pull out, big vast majorities of Americans want us out by whatever choice they think is practical.
-A majority of Americans think Bush should be impeached if he's committed crimes.

So, where is your crazy, right-wing, McCain supporting majority in these numbers?
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I suspect one would have no trouble walking into a very fundamentalist church and finding lots of people who think this was just plain sick and who are appalled by this heinous act.
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One of the key things of any struggle is to know your enemy. It helps if you do, and don't just go by bizarre rants on a message board. Get out and meet people.
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And McCain doesn't have a prayer of winning. Zero, nada, none, no chance.

And the real thing to realize is that the money behind the throne could care less if the Republicans stay in power. They are perfectly happy with a pro-war, pro-corporate Democrat named Obama putting a new face on the same policies. If they weren't, then Obama wouldn't have raised $350 million and McCain wouldn't be begging for public financing.

I'm struck by how a 'Christian' can be so filled with 'hatred' for others that he walks into a CHILDREN'S PLAY and opens fire.

A Christian is supposedly one who follows the teachings of Christ. I guess I missed the versus about walking into the religious sanctuary of people who don't agree with you and gunning them down while they watch their children perform a play. Was this in one of those newer gospels of Jesus that the archealogists sometimes find or that a church committee kept out of the bible?

Funny, the parts of the gospels of Jesus Christ that I remember from my days in a church in east Tennessee all talked about 'turning the other cheek' and loving one's enemy.

Yeah, even in east Tennessee the church my parents took me to taught that sort of stuff. I guess I'm lucky it was nearly 40 years ago and in those days even the religious nut jobs didn't go into a church and start shooting at kids like I used to be.

I'm constantly struck by all this hatred in the name of Jesus Christ, who seemed to teach the message that everyone should love each other. Some people have seriously missed the point.

My vision of paradise is me sitting in a comfy chair near the pearly gates where St. Peter is greeting the potential new arrivals to heaven. Hopefully with a nice drink in one hand and something pleasant to smoke in the other. Then I'd get to sit there and watch St. Peter tell misguided fools like this just exactly how badly they got the whole idea wrong.

Then get see the look on their face as they are banished to the nether regions of hell reserved for the sort of evil hateful @#$@%@s who would walk into a children's play and open fire.

I'd probably get bored with that after awhile, and then go of to other parts of paradise to check out what's going on. Bob Marley has to be jamming in a room somewhere. But, this is sure a fun vision to fantasize about.

"I wonder what the Conservative Christians think about this?"

They love it! The number of hard-ons today in Jesusland Red State America probably exceeds the number of guns they own. How many actual plots against Obama's life is the FBI winking at right now? But it won't take an assassination to assure McCain's victory. Creeps like Adkisson (minus the homicidal intent) are the majority in what's left of this country; so McCain has it in the bag.

Hedology, your words are inane and ignorant almost beyond belief.

I wonder what the Conservative Christians think about this...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/search?;s=tennessee%20church
...Oh, I see.

I read on another thread that "Inside the [shooter's] house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly."

I guess Adkisson was the proxy all the hate-mongers hiding behind their 'patriotic' microphones,'Christian' pens and pulpits were waiting for. They get the multi-millionaire lifestyles; Adkisson gets arrested for murdering liberals. Mission accomplished.

The man who takes out his imagined grievances against innoccent others is probably suffering from premature alzheimers syndrome and paranoid schizophrenia mixed with depression from long unemployment. In other words, rage and stupidity, a mix that many in the US of Zionism seem to suffer. Add to it the possession of lethal weapons and you have the direction of foriegn policy of the US of today.

The line about liberals taking jobs away from him is pure BS.

Having worked with mechanical engineers in many different public and private organizations during the past thirty years, I assure you that a majority of mechanical engineers in the US lean right of center politically and the many of the organizations they are employed by lean even further right.

Boy, jcrumb, you must not know any Unitarians. "God's plan?" I don't think so!

Plus, I doubt there'll be checkpoints in a Unitarian church.

Note that the first man who died was protecting the children and the congregation subdued and held the gunman.

These are the "cowardly" liberals the right wing hate mongers are always railing about!

The John Bolton mustache should have been the first tip-off.

JBPM, I'm sad that UU blogs have depoliticized it. I didn't.
http://wagelaborer.blogspot.com/2008/07/unitarians-and-rush-limbaugh.html

So many people here can see the truth clearly. The hatred spewed out daily on the corporate media will lead the demented to kill us when their conditions worsen. That's the point of the broadcasts!!

The ruling class certainly doesn't want the anger turned towards them!

What blows my mind is that this is already being depoliticized in the few places that it is being reported...even on UU blogs. Even though the man's stated reason for killing two people and shooting up a sanctuary was to kill as many liberal voters as he could, since he couldn't access the liberal politicians themselves, there was nothing political about this killing. Um, how in the fuck can you depoliticize something so manifestly political? Only in America, I guess, where "political" means "partisan" means "liberal."

I guess I'm particularly stricken by how quickly UUs and other liberals have come out to depoliticize this. It is a sign of how far the Right has come in this country when they can advocate second class citizenship (if not worse) for liberals in daily radio, print and TV; then regard it as all in jest when someone takes them a little too seriously; and finally demand that liberals, in the liberal spirit of fairness and open-mindedness, defend them against the attacks of the "far left" who insinuate that describing liberals as sub-human might, just might, lead someone to act as if liberals are sub-human.

How dare we liberals actually think that a guy killing people because they are liberals means that people are killing liberals because they are liberals? Can't we see that all the horrors of the last eight years are the fault of LIBERALS? Can't we see that liberal attempts to educate people, provide adequate food and housing for people, and otherwise treat people decently are just part of the ploy to make liberals look like actual human beings, instead of just sub-human targets?

Wake up liberal/progressive/Left America. Our time is running out.

"..He had apparently been out of work since 2006, and believed liberals were taking jobs he should have"

If he'd trained as a lawyer, he could have worked for the DoJ.

I agree with george w. bush. This is what happens when you listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, and Savage. I wonder how many more incidents like this will happen.

J. Crumb also has some good points.

Framing the incident in political or religious terms alone only serves to distort the truth- that economic circumstances can drive anyone over the edge, far enough to do all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons. Judge this man's actions within the context that caused them, an economic system that values profits uber alles.
Until we do something about that nothing of any consequence will change.

I can't fathom how this man was unable to find work. Sounds like he had all of the qualifications to have a successful radio talk show on our public airwaves.

I meant quousque sorry.

I thought Quark had a good point.

This terrorist's faith based assassinations were produced by the hate radio pundents of the religious reich.
I no longer hope from any sort of law and order from Bush's America. It is time, or past time, for every honest American to arm themselves for their own sake and for the sake of their children as the Laughing Cowboy and his vigilantes are on the prowl for more human sacrifices.

"...was driven to bloodshed..."

Was he in a car pool?

Such inane words from a police chief.

This is simply one more example of the absolute stupidity of the "conservative mind set". The coward pictured here most likely felt justified in his actions, and arbitrarily carried out the same actions that the President of the USA and his supporters have done to countless people----he killed them because they did not believe as he did.
Which is exactly the definition of the conservative mind set.

So the thought process that had a "speech writer", then the coaches and handlers of the most powerful "conservative thinker on the planet" lead him to say: "You're either with us or against us"---is the same thought process that would cause yet one more "conservative thinking moron" to arm himself against the "ones who aren't with him---and kill them.
The argument that "conservatism" equates to insanity is very close to reality here, and this coward most likely will not be screened for mental illness. Let us hope that he does not receive the death penalty in a "death penalty state"-----he should be allowed to live out what remains of his miserable life in a very small cell.

I am very familiar with the Unitarian doctrine and there are no other group of people who are less harmless to others or even the environment than they. That someone would feel even the slightest motivation to harm even one of them, much less as many as he can before he is shot himself, is amazingly stupid but so very exemplary of the conservative mind and movement.

However in this tragic story the Unitarians will make a point. That there "liberal" approach is more worthy of consideration than the "conservative" is borne out in the facts.

There never has been a single account of a liberal shedding innocent blood---much less guilty blood----for the "liberal cause"----the "conservatives" however are literally the exact opposite.

Teach children about this incident---that they may learn from the mistakes of others---and someday----in the future-----there may hopefully be a museum somewhere that will be dedicated to exhibits informing the visitors of the "ancient and now extinct thought process known as Conservatives " --------

Conservatism is a DEADLY FLAWED DOCTRINE and has no place in reality, and no place in a society that hopes to survive.

Thank you for your time.....

george w. bush July 29th, 2008 1:08 pm

I think an even more important question is: "Of the 7,772 hate crimes logged in 2006, how many do you think were committed _BY_ white, christian republican males?"

It'd be fascinating if the authorities released a list of the station presets on the radio in SUV where they found his four page manifesto.
The network news magazine shows could engage in their "connecting the dots" style reporting.
It's only "Fair and Balanced" (not to mention logical) that, when a hateful, middle-aged white guy shoots up a church full of liberals, HIS media and culture diet should be examined and exposed in the same way rap lyrics and video games are when a teenager goes wrong.

quosque, your paranoid blather does not add to the discussion one bit.