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Let's Give 'Blue Dogs' the Boot
Pushing conservative Democrats out of Congress could help the party stand up to the GOP.
In American politics, exceedingly few positions generate overwhelming agreement across the ideological spectrum. Even propositions that ought to be uncontroversial -- such as whether there is scientific evidence for evolution or whether Saddam Hussein personally planned the 9/11 attacks -- produce sizable portions of the citizenry lined up on each side. One notable exception to this rule is the issue of whether the current U.S. Congress is doing a poor job. That question produces a remarkable consensus that is close to unanimous.
Earlier this month, Rasmussen Reports announced the humiliating finding that "the percentage of voters who give Congress good or excellent ratings has fallen to single digits [9 percent] for the first time in Rasmussen Reports tracking history." That extremely negative view of Congress cuts across partisan and ideological lines, as only small percentages of Democrats (13 percent), Republicans (8 percent) and independents (3 percent) believe that Congress is doing an "excellent" or even a "good" job. Perhaps most remarkable, some polls -- such as one from Fox News last month -- reveal that the Democratic-led Congress is actually more unpopular among Democrats than among Republicans, with 23 percent of Republicans approving of Congress compared with only 18 percent of Democrats. One would be hard-pressed to find a time in modern American history, if such a time exists at all, when a Congress was more unpopular among the party that controls it than among voters from the opposition party.
That a Democratic Congress is so deeply unpopular even among Democrats may be historically unusual, but it is hardly surprising or difficult to understand. On key issue after key issue, it is the Bush White House and Republican caucus that have received virtually everything they wanted from Congress, while the base of the Democratic Party has received virtually nothing other than disappointment and an overt repudiation of its agenda. Since the American people gave them control of Congress, the Democrats in Congress have given the country the following:
Unlimited and unconditional funding for the Iraq war. Vast new warrantless eavesdropping powers and retroactive amnesty for their telecom donors -- measures the administration tried, but failed, to obtain from the GOP Congress. The ability to ignore congressional subpoenas with utter impunity. A resolution formally decreeing parts of the Iranian government to be a "terrorist organization." A failure to outlaw waterboarding, to apply the torture ban to the CIA, to restore the habeas corpus rights abolished by the Military Commissions Act of 2006, to impose the requirement of congressional approval before President Bush can attack Iran. Confirmation of highly controversial Bush nominees, including Michael Mukasey as attorney general even after he embraced the most radical Bush theories of executive power and repeatedly refused to say that waterboarding was torture.
Other than (arguably) the resignation of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general and a very modest increase in the minimum wage (enacted in the first month after Democrats took control of Congress), one is hard-pressed to identify a single event or issue since November 2006 that would have been meaningfully different had the GOP retained control of Congress. The Congress of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi has been every bit as passive, impotent and complicit as the Congress of Bill Frist and Denny Hastert was. Worse, in contrast to the Frist/Hastert-led Congress, which at least had the excuse that it enabled a wartime president from its own party while he enjoyed high approval ratings, the Reid/Pelosi Congress has capitulated to every presidential whim despite an "opposition party" president who is now one of the most unpopular in modern American history. It's difficult to imagine how even Reid and Pelosi themselves could contest the claim that the Democratic-led Congress, from the perspective of Democratic voters, has been a profound failure.
With those depressing facts assembled, the only question worth asking among those who are so dissatisfied with congressional Democrats is this: What can be done to change this conduct? As proved by the 2006 midterm elections -- which the Democrats dominated in a historically lopsided manner -- mindlessly electing more Democrats to Congress will not improve anything. Such uncritical support for the party is actually likely to have the opposite effect. It's axiomatic that rewarding politicians -- which is what will happen if congressional Democrats end up with more seats and greater control after 2008 than they had after 2006 -- only ensures that they will continue the same behavior. If, after spending two years accommodating one extremist policy after the next favored by the right, congressional Democrats become further entrenched in their power by winning even more seats, what would one expect them to do other than conclude that this approach works and therefore continue to pursue it?
If simply voting for more Democrats will achieve nothing in the way of meaningful change, what, if anything, will? At minimum, two steps are required to begin to influence Democratic leaders to change course: 1) Impose a real political price that they must pay when they capitulate to -- or actively embrace -- the right's agenda and ignore the political values of their base, and 2) decrease the power and influence of the conservative "Blue Dog" contingent within the Democratic caucus, who have proved excessively willing to accommodate the excesses of the Bush administration, by selecting their members for defeat and removing them from office. And that means running progressive challengers against them in primaries, or targeting them with critical ads, even if doing so, in isolated cases, risks the loss of a Democratic seat in Congress.
Those goals are the basis of the recent campaign that I helped launch -- along with progressive bloggers such as Jane Hamsher and the Blue America PAC -- to target selected Democratic members of Congress who have been responsible for some of the worst acts of complicity and capitulation. The campaign we launched, which raised over $350,000 in a very short time largely from dissatisfied progressives, has run multimedia ads criticizing the likes of Blue Dog Rep. Chris Carney and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, despite the fact that neither has a primary challenger and despite the fact that Carney is quite vulnerable in his reelection effort this year.
The Blue America campaign also ran ads against Blue Dog Rep. John Barrow in Georgia, who did have a progressive primary challenger, state Sen. Regina Thomas. It was always clear that Barrow was highly likely to defeat Thomas in the primary. It was also clear that if Thomas beat the odds and won the primary, her chances of beating the Republican in the general election was far less than the chances of the more conservative and incumbent Barrow, who himself had to fight hard to win reelection in 2006. Knowing that a Barrow defeat in the primary might make a Republican win more likely in November, Blue America nonetheless ran ads against him. We believed that even if Barrow prevailed in his primary (as he ultimately did), the ad campaign against him would undermine his reputation in his district and could thus force Barrow, the Blue Dog caucus and the Democratic leadership to devote far more resources to defending his seat for November. That is what it means to attach a price to trampling on the political values of Democratic supporters.
Barrow and the two other two solidly pro-war Democrats targeted -- Carney and Hoyer -- were not merely supporters, but vocal and active leaders, of the effort to have Congress give to George W. Bush the sweeping new warrantless eavesdropping powers and telecom immunity Bush demanded. Why would any progressive want to see that behavior rewarded by having those three safely reelected? Given the certainty of Democratic control under all circumstances, what possible benefit comes from their seamless return to power?
Many progressives and other Democratic supporters are reflexively opposed to any conduct that might result in the defeat of even a single, relatively inconsequential Democratic member of Congress or the transfer of even a single district to GOP control. No matter how dissatisfied such individuals might be with the Democratic Congress, they are unwilling to do anything different to change what they claim to find so unsatisfactory. Even though uncritically cheering on any and every candidate with a "D" after his or her name has resulted in virtually nothing positive -- and much that is negative -- many progressives continue, rather bafflingly and stubbornly, to insist that if they just keep doing the same thing (cheering for the election of more and more Democrats), then somehow, someday, something different might occur. But, as the cliché teaches, repeatedly engaging in the same conduct and expecting different results is the very definition of foolishness.
As foolish as it is, this intense aversion to jeopardizing any Democratic incumbents might be considered rational if doing so carried the risk of restoring Republican control of Congress. But there is no such risk, and there will be none for the foreseeable future. No matter what happens, the Democrats, by all accounts, are going to control both houses of Congress after the 2008 election. Their margin in the House, which is currently 31 seats, will, by even the most conservative estimates, increase to at least 50 seats. No advertising campaign or activist group could possibly swing control of Congress to the Republicans this year, and -- given the Brezhnev-era-like reelection rates for incumbents in America -- it is extremely unlikely that the House will be controlled by anyone other than Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel and Nancy Pelosi for years to come.
The critical question, then, is not who will control Congress. The Democrats will. That is a given. The vital question is what they will do with that control -- specifically, will they continue to maintain and increase their own power by accommodating the right, or will they be more responsive, accountable and attentive to the political values of their base?
As long as they know that progressives will blindly support their candidates no matter what they do, then it will only be rational for congressional Democrats to ignore progressives and move as far to the right as they can. With the blind, unconditional support of Democrats securely in their back pocket, Democratic leaders will quite rationally conclude that the optimal way to increase their own power, to transform more Republican districts into Blue Dog Democratic seats, and thereby make themselves more secure in their leadership positions, is to move their caucus to the right. Because the principal concern of Democratic leaders is to maintain and increase their own power, they will always do what they perceive is most effective in achieving that goal, which right now means moving their caucus to the right to protect their Blue Dogs and elect new ones.
That is precisely what has happened over the past two years. It is why a functional right-wing majority has dominated the House notwithstanding the change of party control -- and the change in direction -- that American voters thought they were mandating in 2006. As progressive activist Matt Stoller put it, "Blue Dogs are the swing voting block in the House, they are self-described conservatives, and they are perfectly willing to use their status on every action considered by the House." The more the Democratic leadership accommodates the Blue Dog caucus -- the more their power relies upon expanding their numbers through the increase of Blue Dog seats -- the less relevant will be the question of which party controls Congress.
The linchpin for that destructive strategy is uncritical progressive support for congressional Democrats. That is what ensures that Democratic leaders will continue to pursue a rightward-moving strategy as the key to consolidating their own power. Right now, when it comes time to decide whether to capitulate to the demands of the right, Beltway Democrats think: "If we capitulate, that is one less issue the GOP can use to harm our Blue Dogs." And they have no countervailing consideration to weigh against that, because they perceive -- accurately -- that there is no cost to capitulating, only benefits from doing so, because progressives will blindly support their candidates no matter what they do. That is the strategic calculus that must change if the behavior of Democrats in Congress is to change.
Democratic leaders must learn that they cannot increase their majority in Congress by trampling on the political values of their own base. It's crucial that they understand that they will not gain seats, but will lose seats, the more they accommodate the right's agenda. That, in turn, will happen only if progressives target for defeat selected members of the Democratic caucus who are responsible for that right-wing-enabling behavior. That is the only way to eliminate the incentive for the Democratic leadership to continue to follow the strategy of increasing their own power by mimicking Republicans. Those who disagree with that -- who object that it is oh-so-terrible to cause the defeat of any Democratic incumbents, no matter how complicit and irrelevant -- have the responsibility to identify what alternative strategy they think should be pursued in order to alter the behavior of the Democratic Party in Congress.
Defeating scattered, individual Democratic incumbents -- even if it means that a Republican wins -- will result in nothing negative. What is the difference -- specifically -- if Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emanuel have a 43-seat margin of control rather than a 56-seat margin? There is no difference. Far more important than the size of the Democrats' majority is the question of who is dominating and controlling that majority.
At the moment, the Blue Dog contingent is dominant in the Democratic caucus and drives much of what the caucus does. The more Blue Dogs there are in the Democratic caucus, the more dominant they will be. Changing the face of Congress requires, first and foremost, that the face of the Democratic caucus change, that its strategic incentive scheme be altered. Until progressives make Democratic leaders pay a price for their allegiance to the right's agenda -- the only price that politicians recognize: having their power diminished and jeopardized -- then none of this will change. It will only continue to worsen.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com



106 Comments so far
Show AllIf we progressives and liberals would quit complaining and get our framing straight along with focusing on getting true progressives and liberals, the Democratic Party wouldn't be stuck with DLC and/or Blue Dog motherfuckers. Besides, look at Obama. He's as close to DLC/BlueDog as he can get whereas Ralph Nader is closer to FDR and in some cases far more progressive/liberal. The disaffected Democrats and Republicans would do better to join 3rd/Independent party candidacies for a change. Besides, I'm so sick and fucking tired of the GOP having easy times RAPING and FUCKING the Democratic Party with backdoor backstabbing bastards in the Democratic Party caving in to the GOP.
By the way, motherfuckers such as Daniel FUCKING David will keep trying to tell you to just support the Blue Dogs just because they have a D next to their name !
Anti-abortionist VA Gov. Time Kane, endorsed by DNC's Terry McCullough, is on Obama's VP short list.
Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sibelius is also on Obama's VP short list. Much better.
Hear, Hear. My thoughts exactly. The Blue Dogs blew it at every opportunity; they need to be blown away!
Greenwald update:
"Here's what I learned today about democracy and ideology as a result of my debate with Ed Kilgore and having read the comments to the piece I wrote about targeting Blue Dogs:
* If you believe in the Fourth Amendment, an end to the Iraq War, the rule of law for government and corporate criminals, a ban on torture, Congressional approval before the President can attack Iran, and the preservation of habeas corpus rights, then you're a fringe, dogmatic Far Leftist ideologue, the kind who ruined the Democratic Party in 1968 and wants to d so again..."
Update continues at:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/29/democracy/index.html
Why is Nancy 'impeachment is off the table' Pelosi not being targeted?
Support Cindy Sheehan.
Glenn Greenwald is an excellent reporter. Well done.
The linchpin for that destructive strategy is uncritical progressive support for congressional Democrats.
-I say take it one further and don't vote for any Democrat except those like Kucinich, that oppose the war and the FISA capitulation. Target all the bastards. OOPS! If you target all the Senators that voted to fund the war you won't have any Democrats left! Now wouldn't that be glorious!
I say dump all the Democrats except for the handful of progressives, I mean every single God-damned one. Obama is in the Congress and he is one of them too. Punish these bastards including Obama. I won't vote for Obama because he has supported the war and the FISA capitulation.
SCREW ALL THE DEMOCRATS EXCEPT FOR THE FEW PROGRESSIVES!
Blue Dogs are the lowest of lowest scum. Fakes. Totally useless when it comes to progressive ideals & humanity, in general.
We can start with the biggest and the worst:Obama.
Deny him and his fellow weasels.
Put the pressure on for real change in the democratic party.
Make your vote count.
Vote for Ralph Nader.
Its probably the last chance to rid the party of the enemy.
These so-called Democrats and "liberals" aren't stupid - they know what they're doing and they know the "public" wholly disapproves, yet they continue without even pausing to come up for air.
Hence, they have an unexamined agenda that is so vital and also so disconnected from the needs of We The People, even total rejection by said People can't slow 'em down.
That must be one mighty important agenda. Wonder what it might be...
Much as I agree with, and find enlightenment in, Glenn's writings on Constitutional matters his faith on being able to do something about the terrible condition we find ourselves in, from within the democratic party, is misplaced optimism, to say the least. Just look at how Coyners, Kucinich, Wexler, Dodd et al have become co-opted by default in activities they claim to vehemently disagree with. The strange bedfellows initiative, whilst commendable, if you believe in "freedom of speech" money, as an arbiter in politics, immediately excludes the mass of us poor plebs that can hardly feed ourselves let alone send money to a cause we might believe in.
I'm just curious as to why a poster or posters calling themselves "Frederick Johnson" uses a forum response to an article by Leonard Pitts, Jr. to criticize Americans for "living inside the 'Entitlement Society' bubble," and then at the end of his screed proclaims, "If you want to force Corporate America into cleaning up for their mess, GET RID OF BIG GOVERNMENT !!"--yet in his posted response to this Glen Greenwald piece "Frederick Johnson" includes himself with "we progressives" and proceeds to lecture progressives and liberals to support Ralph Nader for being more like FDR (the creator of Big Government entitlement programs).
Is Mr. Johnson schizophrenic or just a Limbaugh Lemming agitator?
i must admit i got lost in the logic of this article
dems/gop - two different flavors of baloney
it is a futile and long winded journey trying to spin the dems as being very much different from the gop
in fact you have to close your eyes to history
i have been watching and taking part in the discussions about the bush presidency and what to do about their disdain for the rule of law, the constitution, etc
it has been frustrating and disheartening to watch the slaughter in iraq and afghanistan to say the least
at the end of the day, the facts are the facts
1. the us has "crossed the rubicon" - it is now a militaristic police state bent on world domination. it has been this way for some time
2. the constitution is not suspended it is dead - gone - taking habeas corpus with it and leaving torture and rendition in its stead
3. voting ended in 2000 when the supreme court awarded bush the office of the president
4. corporations run the show from their offshore tax havens
5. media is alternate reality for the bored and defeated
6. there is no way short of revolution to intercede in this sad state of affairs
pretending that filtering out some of the democrats who don't think right will help is a desperate stab
the congress no longer oversees the government and how could they with more and more functions being conducted in secrecy and/or farmed out on contract to the private sector
blackwater (and others) are amassing standing armies in the homeland and are involved growing their spying and surveillance capabilities against ordinary citizens
the watch list is over a million names
the government operates on funds borrowed from the central bank of china and the central bank of japan
no one has any idea of what is going on in the black op segment of the government
the us is the leading debtor nation in the world
the dollar has no value (better hope the asians don't start dumping them)
people think the surge is worth talking about
people think the occupation forces in iraq are going to come home soon - not
it is laughable to delude yourself into thinking that normalcy is an option, that if we can only get things under control, get things straightened out, a return to normalcy is not only possible - it is doable
would that it were so
in this space/time continuum, as i understand it, one can only move forward - i think that is what they call an immutable law, unless someone has come up with a time machine of some sort
in the lawless deluded us - they don't apply to the discourse
it is a serious situation leaving many informed and scholarly people such as chalmers johnson and others advising that a condo in vancouver may not be a bad idea
Which one are you RichM, a TRD or a MOB?
This article is a prime example of why we need a progressive 3rd party and how the Greens can make a difference now - by giving progressives a place to turn and conservative Dems a price to pay. Yet, no mention that the Greens are running in 63 House and 8 Senate races and have endorsed Sheehan in S.F. for Pelosi's seat. Taboo subject?
Hey ASSHOLE "metal",
Your fucking brain is outdated. The Big Government you want doesn't exist. For the past 28 years, Big Government has been entirely different. Can't you get that through your motherfucking head ? Today's Big Government sides with the corporations not the people as has been more so the case for the past 28 years. Ralph Nader is not for big bloated but inefficient government. Government was not so big until RAYGUN stormed in and increased military spending, empowered the DEA, FBI, FCC, CIA, etc ..., empowered the corporate special interests of Wall Street against Main Street and the environment, and effectively opened the door to joining Big Brother and the corporations into the mess that it is today ! Either get that through your FUCKING head or stay a LOSER !!
nebraskagreen,
It's so sad that even CD won't accept that reality. I have yet to see them giving any hint of support of Green Party candidates over Democrat hacks. It's too bad motherfucking party hacks such as Daniel David and "metal" are for allowing the rightwing to undermine the progressive/liberal efforts election after election.
It seems to me that the question becomes whether it is quicker to change the party or to start a new one (or bring to the front a much lesser-known one).
I happen to live in a state whose senator did indeed vote against the war from the beginning and has stood tall (now you have to know I live in Wisconsin and that senator is of course Feingold). Crazy thing is, large areas of Wisconsin are incredibly conservative (Sensenbrenner, etc), yet I have absolutely no fear of Feingold losing the next election because even the conservatives are beginning to back his almost-lone stances against the chimp in the oval. Congress' lack of backbone is the sole reason for their approval ratings limbo-ing under the bar set by the chimp.
So I'll continue to back Feingold, but will divert some monies to these organizations. Why? Because the best way to support Feingold is to give him some allies.
Maybe this is the "Hold their feet to the fire" that we've been calling for.
ezeflyer July 29th, 2008 1:31 pm
Which one are you RichM, a TRD or a MOB?
-this blogger very rarely if ever, has any facts, reasoned arguments or anything interesting to say. Her specialty is name-calling and one line insults. She is beneath responding to.
I'm with you, Greenwald; Let's kick 'em out! Back in Texas, there's one: Ciro Rodriguez, who the folks had hoped would represent them, but lo and behold, he has been in Congress long enough, and has joined the Blue Dogs, much to our dismay. He is not representing the people in his district, but the "change at any cost, just to get elected" disease has rotted his brain, and lo and behold, if a lot of people aren't thinking that this old dog has seen his better days.
tailcrap:
Though I'm opinionated, you may think I don't have anything to say because you TRDs and MOBs only read articles that you can get in a rant against Obama or Democrats.
You, RichM and other TRDs are much better in the name calling department than I am. That's a plus for you.
RichM's labeling us comical "DPAs" was very original. So I took the liberty of borrowing from your handbook:
TRDs - Tricky Republican Devils
MOBs - McKinney's Obama Bashers
It's a childish game, but if you're feeling were hurt, cheer up. Your strategy of keeping us on the defensive seems to be working.
There is a lot to be said for term limits on members of Congress. If there were term limits, then eventually the electorate could get new representation without having to be so upset at all the nonsense that passes for legislative work these days. The Founders of our nation envisioned a government of the people and a legislature of citizens [not careerist].
How about 6 terms of office for the house of representatives; that is 12 years.
How about no more than 3 terms for the Senate or 18 years max.
Also:
How about limiting the term of office for the Justices of the Supreme Court? 25 years and out or age 70; which ever comes first.
Think about it! We could actually get people in there that might just do what they are suppost to do; act in the best interest of the American people!
Also, to keep the retiring member of the legislature from getting "too influential", legislate that they cannot return to government [unless re-elected] as a lobbist for at least 4 years after their term of office was completed.
These suggestions would require that we amend the Constitution, but it has been done before.
A good article, but the rot extends beyond just the Blue Dogs and encompasses virtually the whole party. There is a handful of progressive Dems who deserve support, but other than them, the party is, to put it kindly, most unreliable.
I'm a union member, and I've been demanding a refund of that portion of my dues that goes toward supporting political candidates (always Dems). I make sure that the union knows exactly why I'm doing this, and this year I'm going to write a letter to the state Dem party chapter and let them know, too.
I URGE ALL PROGRESSIVE UNION MEMBERS TO DO THE SAME. If this spreads far enough, maybe union higher-ups will feel the heat from the rank-and-file and start attaching more strings to the cash handouts. One can always hope.....
Outside the asylum, the entities we call "political parties" have positions on the issues. The American Democratic party is more of a fund raising apparatus than a party. I'm not sure how you would enforce such discipline in such a structure. Serendipitously, there is something called the Green Party of America. What do they say about reinventing the wheel?
For one thing, its very hard sometimes to pin down exactly who's responsible for these acts. That's because the party and Congress plays games with who votes for what.
A couple of examples:
If they need a small group of Democrats to cross over and join the Republicans to help pass something that the Democratic leadership has agreed to pass, they will almost always pick Senators who are not up for re-election soon, or House members from very safe districts.
Along the same lines, when they are sure they have enough votes for passage, or maybe enough votes to secure a deal with the Republicans that X number of Democrats need to vote yes to make it look 'bi-partisan', they'll 'turn loose' the other members of their caucus to cast votes more pleasing to the base. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't vote Republican if they had to do so. No, it only means they weren't required to do so this time.
Especially for Senators, what this means is that you'll see voting records that are very pro-Republican when say 4 years out from election, but then they'll suddenly start seeming to pay attention to the base when its their election year. Then, once they've won they become the leadership's 'safe' vote for a few more years until election looms again.
For this reason, its rather dangerous to only focus on the people who voted the 'wrong' way on a particular bill. You see that often on the internets, a list of people we should 'get' because they voted the 'wrong' way. But that doesn't mean that just changing those people out of Congress would solve the problem, because there are likely many others who would have voted that way had the leadership required them to do so.
Its far, far easier just to refuse to vote Democrat. If you live in a district where you've got a member who's consistently good, then sure support them (although you should really be encouraging them to leave that awful party because most such members are clearly hated by the Democratic leadership. Example: the way they ran a primary opponent against Kucinich to try to force him out of Congress the same way they forced the next President of the United States, Cynthia McKinney, out of Congress).
Just don't vote Democrat. Let the decent Democrats get around that by their leaving the party. Don't vote Democrat.
I love it now that exeflyer and the fellow Democrat sychophants use exactly the same propaganda techniques as Bush and the Republicans used.
Remember back when the Bushies tried to deflect all criticism of Bush because it came from "Bush-bashers' or 'Bush-haters'.
Now we have the Democrats trying to deflect all criticism of the Democrats as it comes from MOBs. Or the real total line of bull that somehow all us rebels on the left are really secret Republicans.
Amazing how the Democrats seem to use the same play-book as the Republicans these days. Tells you a lot about that party. And it also tells you a lot that they won't even try to defend the pro-war, pro-corporate policies of their party but try to divert discussion by such bull.
I'm wondering if we could get all the progressives in the so-called battleground states to switch-right now-to the Green Party (sorry Ralph. An Independent registration could mean anything) if that would send a scare through the DNC? If all the prog. web sites and Act Blue took this on would we gain some leverage? We could come back when/if we get some respect and real changes in the party platform.
re Rockerbabe1 July 29th, 2008 2:30 pm
term limits are a bad idea, very undemocratic. if we have an incumbent in our district who we feel represents our interests, why should we be forced to have another?
getting corporate money out of the election cycle and making room for 3rd parties would accomplish your presumed goals, plus allow us the choice of keeping a decent congresscritter (if we're lucky enough to find one).
re ezeflyer (too many posts to list):
we agree that Rs are beyond redemption. where we disagree is that you think the Ds are not, and we like you too much to stand by and see you go on being played for a fool by them.
but since our concern only seems to anger you, we'll stop. okay?
If Barack Obama is not worthy of your trust, no one is.
Well if the current polls are correct Barr has 3 times higher polling than Nader.
http://www.presidentpolls2008.com/
If you don't live in Florida or Ohio, (where i controversially still believe you no longer may be voting against Obama rather voting for McCain) maybe this is a good idea to vote green.
If Greenwald is right about the chances of not losing ground in congress, then that's good news to start pushing greens now congressionally.
I'm not entirely sure the information is accurate, and will start some personal research on the matter. I'm all ready for pushing an alternative to this lame 2 party system as soon as possible, but not at the expense of a McCain presidency. (yeah, yeah, save your breath, i know those of you that think there's not difference between McCain and 99% of all dems. I don't agree and never will.) I always voted green gubernatorial-wise, and when there was no risk of split.
P.S. C'mon Ca., Cindy still needs more signatures. She's got paid signature gatherers now, and every buck you donate get's you a signature. http://www.cindyforcongress.org/
Umlaut, Sheehan pays thousands for signatures, Obama pays millions for wall to wall news/advertising, what a system you got there. Imagine the country you would have if they both had to go out and get votes.
jlocke123
I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
Just saying if you donate, even if you don't live in Ca., you can still help her get signatures.
I'm all for Cindy beating out pelosi.
I'm all for winning against both parties, but as long as you win. I'm not for voting idealistically when there is a 1% chance of winning. We live in a messed up political system with an ignorant populace. If my vote for a 3rd party meant a win for the reps, and something atrocious happened afterwards, and multitudes of lives were lost, I would fell somewhat responsible.
However the fact that you're just jumping to conclusions, pushes a straw man, and assuming everything here is just a debate of Obama vs. Nader/McKinney, I find very disturbing and tantamount to a fox news debate.
Here in Colo. our Democratic saviours were to be the Salazar Bros.Yea right,fat chance.
These Bush-enablers richly deserve a one-way trip back to their San Luis potato farm.
Scumbag Carney from Pennsylvania is a top line neocon.
He worked in Chaney's office for Fleth and was a member of a small committee that was set up to pedal the BS that Iraq met with Ben Ladin.
He slipped into the seat when Sherwood GOP beat up his girl friend in Washington and he paid her $500,000 to drop it.
The district is very heavy GOPs and Carney has one of those right wing goof running against him. I would guess Carney will loss. When Move on. org wanted to run a tv adv in this local market Comcast refused to accept the adv. It was on the telcom vote and it mentioned Comcast.
add my senator..blanche lambert lincoln (d) ARkansas to the blue dog list, but she don't claim to be blue dog.
wild
Umlaut, what conclusions am I "pushing"? What "strawman"? What is the "everything" that I am assuming that you find disturbing?
Could you be any more vague?
Please send Cindy Sheehan at least $19.84. She says it's symbolic for the Orwellian times we now live in. GO CINDY!!! www.cindyforcongress.org
If someone asked you to count to 10, would you reply by stopping at two? Would you condemn someone who counted past two as an idiot? Would you bring up how irrelevant numbers 3-10 are and the historical significance of numbers one and two?
The most important number people conveniently forget when obsessing over one and two is zero.
I liked Samson's analysis of why you can't trust the Dem Gang any more than the Reps. "Loyalty" - the principle the Nazis put above all else - is the predominate modus operandi in both political gangs.
While loyalty connotes a sense of honor, it is only loyalty to principle - like to the Constitution - that gives it any notable worth. When loyalty is directed towards an institution or gang, which can morph rather quickly from one set of principles to another, it can seed the worst of all evils.
So even as an avid anti-Republican, for me it's DVD (don't vote Democrat) all the way!
For rasmus11, who wrote @ July 29th, 2008 4:15 pm, "If Barack Obama is not worthy of your trust, no one is":
Judging by this dictum, I'll suppose you never heard of seminal investigative reporter I.F. Stone. His rule of thumb was to assume that those in positions of power were doing what comes naturally---abusing it---and try to make them prove they weren't.
In his understanding of American constitutional democracy, being a spectator was an option available only to foreigners, and trust was "off the table."
I have to agree with BryanD:
dems/gop - two different flavors of baloney
And what makes it all the more dangerous this time is the Obama believers. They'll do anything their messiah tells them to. I suspect Obama is actually a Blue Dog himself, look at the DLC/Clintonistas he has surrounded himself with.
Although I agree with your intent to *act*, I would question the effectiveness of targeting those on the fence. Yes, they are posers and as such deserve our derision and condemnation, but really... what does that act really communicate?
In my opinion, it's the top of the food chain that needs excising, and all effort and resources should be directed towards those within the Democratic Party who wield real power. Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel and Nancy Pelosi and especially Harry Reid in the Senate. Campaign against them, even if they are not running. Expend some resources to let Americans (that 90+ percent disaffected by Congressional cowardice, inaction and treason), know exactly where the problem lies... at the top of the leadership charts.
Hold them accountable by consistently threatening their political careers. With any degree of Congressional shift away from Republicans posing as Democrats, the blue dogs will stick out for who they are and will be the first to fall by the wayside. But if you limit action to them, those in Congress who hold the real power will consider themselves immune to criticism and continue to lie, deceive and hold the American electorate in contempt.
Obama's integrity is all tapped out. Do NOT vote for evil.
Reagan Democrat is a funny term. Doesn't RR stand against every ideal that the Democrats, at least, nominally stand for?
Were there ever Franco Communists in Spain or Mussolini Liberals in Italy?
"If, after spending two years accommodating one extremist policy after the next favored by the right, congressional Democrats become further entrenched in their power by winning even more seats, what would one expect them to do other than conclude that this approach works and therefore continue to pursue it?"
Well, as Nancy Pelosi said the other day on NPR, "power is never given away". She wasn't BS-ing!
That should pretty much tell us why Democrats have been playing a "supporting role" in the Republican script and why "We The People" are being deprived of a "meaningful choice" within the two-party system that does everything in its power to prevent a progressive party politician from becoming a potential contender for the White House.
Pelosi is not Jewish, but her husband is. Together, their net worth is said to be around $90 million. Pelosi is totally and completely a slave of AIPAC. AIPAC likes the unnecessary war of choice in Iraq, and likes the coming unnecessary war in Iran. So, with the Speaker of the US House of Representatives a front for AIPAC in the US Congress, are you surprised with the low standing of Congress?? Democrats, you have been scammed. Of course, Hoyer did not help any either.
leftk .... the term dates from the 1980 election. That was a time of transition of voting patterns, and there were many people who had been voting Democrat in the old FDR coalitions who switched to voting Republican at that time.
This would be the generally white voters, who maybe had been in a union or otherwise in the FDR coalition before. But they also tended to be socially conservative on issues like abortion, or the just plain racist types I used to see in the South who hated the Democrats for integration and civil liberties for others.
The big trend of the 1980 election was the shift of these voters from Democrat to Republican. Thus the term Reagan Democrat. It was the media buzzword of the time, a lot like 'value voters' were in the last election.
By these days, the term is pretty meaningless. Those white conservative voters would just be called Republicans today.
The best way to do this is to run '3rd party' campaigns in their districts.
The 'blue dog' democrats should be especially vulnerable to this as they will have done the most to truly po the more liberal democratic base.
And, all you have to do is to make these fools lose. So, all you have to do is to take enough votes away from them to make that happen. If you look at a district and the blue dog won the last election 53-47, and you think a strong progressive 3rd party candidate could get 7 percent of the vote, you just turned that blue dog into a a 46-47 loser who's looking for a new job.
And, you get to have fun with a good progressive campaign, you get to talk to voters all through the election about progressive values (which will only build that base for future actions), and you get to actually support a candidate you believe in instead of some piece of scum who's only slightly less evil that the Republican.
We can take them down. The think that is lacking is generally the knowledge that the Democrats are often the enemy. We still tend to think a Democratic majority is a good thing, even though we've had so many times when we've been clearly shown it isn't. So, the left tends to play 'safe-state' strategies that deliberately avcid taking on these sorts of politicians.
The answer is to realize that the first thing we need to do is to defeat the Democrats. Realize that causing them to lose ia perfect for us. At the very least it might make the Democrats bargain seriously with us for our support instead of taking us for granted.
Defeating the Democrats is the goal. We should try to do it as often as possible. With just a few exceptions who really need to just leave a party that in no way represents their values.
Blue dog "democrats" demonstarate what that party is all about. The "let's
split here, let's split there" greens(how many "green" parties are there now?) demonstarate what they are all about. We already knew what the repuglicans were all about. To hell with 'em all. Voting uncritically only
reinforces the superstition that change will come from above. Go ahead and vote. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it, but be prepared to fight when you are betrayed, because you will be, and that fight is the only hope we have for the future of the world. Be prepared to fight!
Samson, I've got a question for you, or anyone who has an answer. What are the chances that the Rs and the Ds will flip positions. For example: the Ds will adopt the overt imperialism in order to look tough meanwhile the Rs will them rediscover fiscal responsibility as a motive to bring the major military campaigns to an end.
Umlaut (4:25} I read a piece stating Cindy was on the ballot.Are you sure? 2. The only viably third party I can think of would be a coalition of - Unions with new leaders, minorities, independents, and others. They would probably need their own media though. Big job. 3. Running ads against BD dems. A little late now. 24/7 all year would be great.
RichM July 29th, 2008 4:09 pm said:
"ezeflyer, you gutless worm"
Rich you're such a bitch.
If we can't push conservatives out of windows, let's at least push them out of government where they can't do as much harm:
Conservatives Deconstructed
by Joel Bleifuss
In These Times magazine, October 2003
Are they nuts?
Have you ever wondered about those ubiquitous conservatives?
Why do they support tax breaks for the rich when so many of their fellow citizens are in dire straits? Why do they applaud John Ashcroft and his post-9/11 curtailment of civil liberties? Why do they oppose laws that address historic wrongs and enforce constitutionally guaranteed rights? Why do they respond to a societal drug problem with incarceration and expanded prison construction? Why do they gut regulations that are meant to protect the environment? Why do they invest more than half of our tax dollars in the military? Why are they so meanspirited? In other words, why do conservatives do what they do? Are they nuts?
No, not according to a fascinating new study in Psychological Bulletin, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition." Conservatives do, however, possess certain psychological traits and motives that no one in their right (or is that left?) mind would want to share.
The study's four authors, John T. Jost, Jack Glaser, Arie W. Kruglanski, and Frank J. Sulloway, write, "People embrace political conservatism (at least in part) because it serves to reduce fear, anxiety and uncertainty; to avoid change, disruption and ambiguity; and to explain, order and justify inequality among groups and individuals." To come to this conclusion the authors examined 88 different psychological studies conducted between 1958 and 2002 that involved 22,818 people from 12 different countries. They boiled that information down into a number of psychological attributes that are closely associated with people who are politically conservative.
Rigid and closed-minded
"Dogmatism has been found to correlate consistently with authoritarianism, political-economic conservatism, and the holding of right wing opinions," write the authors. Conversely, studies have found that conservatives in general have little tolerance for ambiguity. A fact that helps in decoding this statement that George W. Bush made in Genoa, Italy: "I know what I believe and I believe what I believe is right."
Such thinking could explain why the Bush administration officials ignored those intelligence reports that failed to support going to war with Iraq. "[Conservatives'] intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic clichés and stereotypes," write the authors.
Numerous studies have also shown that conservative policymakers entertain less cognitively complex thoughts than their liberal or moderate counterparts. A study of speeches made in the House of Commons in 1984 found that "the most integratively complex politicians were moderate socialists." Their complexity of thought was found to be significantly higher than that of extreme socialists, moderate conservatives or extreme conservatives. Similarly, in the United States, a study of speeches on the floor of the Senate in 1975 and 1976 found that senators with liberal or moderate voting records exhibited significantly more complex thinking than their conservative counterparts.
That explains a lot, doesn't it. Bush again comes to mind. As he told a British reporter, "Look, my job isn't to try to nuance. My job is to tell people what I think."
Further studies show that conservatives have been found to shun new, stimulating experiences and to avoid situations where the outcome is uncertain.
The authors write that the fact that conservatives are "less tolerant of ambiguity, less open to new experiences, and more avoidant of uncertainty. may help explain why "congressional Republicans and other prominent conservatives in the United States have sought unilaterally to eliminate public funding for the contemporary arts."
From an early age, conservatives demonstrate a personal need for order and structure. One study has shown that conservative teens are more likely to say they are "neat, orderly and organized" than are liberal adolescents. The authors note that this desire for set rules correlates with the examples of mental rigidity mentioned above, and can be seen in the political realm when conservatives attempt to order their own and other's lives by advocating drug testing, core educational curriculum, controls on people with AIDS, and strict parental control of children.
Impulsively aggressive
R.A. Altemeyer, a psychologist who has extensively studied people with right-wing beliefs, has observed:
[Right-wing authoritarians] see the world as a dangerous place, as society teeters on the brink of self-destruction from evil and violence. This fear appears to instigate aggression in them. Second, right-wing authoritarians tend to be highly self righteous. They think themselves much more moral and upstanding than others - a self perception considerably aided by self-deception.... This self-righteousness disinhibits their aggressive impulses and releases them to act out their fear-induced hostilities.
George Will seems steeped in that fear. To illustrate that point the authors quote this passage from an essay by Will: "Conservatives know the world is a dark and forbidding place where most new knowledge is false, most improvements are for the worse." Psychological studies back Will up. People with right-wing personalities hold more pessimistic views and left-wing personalities hold more optimistic ones. And that pessimism and optimism appears to inform how conservatives and liberals view their fellow humans. A 1984 survey of "emotional reactions to welfare recipients" found that conservatives "expressed greater disgust and less sympathy" than liberals.
While this propensity of conservatives to be threatened and fearful does not appear to induce neurotic behavior, one study of dream lives discovered that Republicans had three times as many nightmares as Democrats, indicating that fear, anger and aggression might be a factor in the subconscious motivations of conservatives.
The authors speculate that this susceptibility to fear "may help explain why military defense spending and support for national security receive much stronger backing from conservative than liberal political leaders."
Afraid of loss
It has long been known that conservatives resist change while progressives accept change. Indeed, according to studies, this is the most common way that people from both groups self-define themselves.
"To the extent that conservatives are especially sensitive to the possibilities of loss-one reason why they wish to preserve the status quo-it follows that they should be generally more motivated by negatively framed outcomes (potential losses) than by positively framed outcomes (potential gains)."
Consequently, conservatives respond better to threats. In a study conducted five days before the 1996 presidential election, researchers presented voters with persuasive arguments that stressed either the potential rewards of voting ("it is a way to express and live in accordance with important values") or the potential losses from not voting ("not voting allows others to take away your right to express your values"). More generally, the authors suggest that "framing events in terms of potential losses rather than gains leads people to adopt cognitively conservative, as opposed to innovative, orientations."
Haunted by death
Of course, the greatest personal loss is death. Studies demonstrate that the people who most fear death are the most conservative. More generally, the fear of death and the resulting protective posture that such a threat engenders cause people to become conservative and to strongly "defend culturally valued norms and practices" and "to distance themselves from, and even to derogate, out-group members to greater extent." Similarly, the fear of death has also been linked to "system-justifying forms of stereotyping and enhanced liking for stereotype-consistent women and minority group members" and "greater punitiveness, and even aggression, toward those who violate cultural values." Applying that knowledge, the authors write, "High profile terrorist attacks such as those of September 11, 2001, might simultaneously increase the cognitive accessibility of death and the appeal of political conservatism."
While trying to retain the impartiality of scientists, albeit social ones, the authors warn that the available evidence indicates that governments can manipulate people's conservative tendencies by raising the specter of death. They write, "Priming thoughts of death has been shown to increase intolerance, out-group derogation, punitive aggression, veneration of authority figures and system justification."
That is what we have seen in the wake of 9/11 as public opinion and media coverage took a sharp turn to the right, setting the stage for pre-emptive wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The authors acknowledge what has long been assumed by sociologists, economists, and political scientists: people adopt conservative beliefs to serve their own self interests. They agree that this helps explain the conservatism of "upper-class elites." However, the authors hold that the personal need to "reduce fear, anxiety, dissonance, uncertainty or instability" better explains why a vastly greater number of people who are not part of the elite, and particularly those who are disadvantaged or from low-status groups, "might embrace right-wing ideologies."
The authors also take issue with the common notion that people inherit ideological beliefs from their parents. A statistically significant correlation exists between the two, but it is far from overwhelming. The authors maintain, "Conservative ideologies, like virtually all other belief systems, are adopted in part because they satisfy various psychological needs."
Conservatives have not taken kindly to "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition." Will, perhaps fearing the truth, ridiculed the study in the Washington Post, making fun of the authors' academic jargon.
Yet this delineation of the psychological needs that motivate conservatives provides progressives with lessons on how they might communicate with a wider audience. For example, when speaking to the problems of the PATRIOT Act, administration critics could reach out to a conservative audience by emphasizing that the act presents a radical infringement on the Bill of Rights, and should therefore be opposed by all who value the precepts on which America was founded.
Ezeflyer, rasmus 11, and others-
Don't listen to the drivel coming from RichM, Tailcap, samson and the other "Operation Chaos" ditto-heads.
Greenwald has a good article here, but he stops short of making the hard calls. I have echoed these ideas and advocated even tougher measures than Greenwald's, and I still get grief from these dumb-assed, brain-dead, ditto-heads.
For instance, I have called for a plan with wide support to remove Pelosi and send a message to all of the Blue-Dogs. I have also pushed for all progressives to register Green, to further emphasize our displeasure with their actions. I have also called for supporting true progressives of any stripe over DINOs. Donna Edwards primary victory over Al Wynn should be used as a model of "How It Is Done" for others around the country. I have posted this link-
www.switch2green.org and this one-
www.cindyforcongress.org several times. I have suggested that in states where the vote for Obama will make no difference, vote for Cynthia McKinney to help build the Green Party. And I still get grief from these assholes!
They will not be satisfied unless you are willing to commit to political suicide by voting for third party, independent candidates for president, who have, absolutely no chance in hell of breaking 10% in any state! And, aside from all the bullshit rhetoric, the truth is, all those votes will be pulled from Obama, and strengthen McSame. Obama is going to have a hard enough time overcoming the race issue with many voters, let's not make things any harder for ourselves.
Dismiss these Rush ditto-heads, TRDs and MOBs, and vote for a better America and a better world. Vote for OBAMA '08
P.S. Support the Green Party and other progessives in local elections. Learn to live smaller by visiting-
www.storyofstuff.com and watch the short animated video, buy local, secondhand if possible, and get out of debt ASAP!