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Derail Doha, Save the Climate
There's something surreal about the ongoing World Trade Organization talks in Geneva, which aim at coming up with a new agreement to bring down tariffs in order to expand world trade and resuscitate global growth. In the face of the looming specter of climate change, these negotiations amount to arguing over the arrangement of deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking.
Indeed, one of the most important steps in the struggle to come up with a viable strategy to deal with climate change would be the derailment of the so-called "Doha Round."
Global trade is carried out with transportation that is heavily dependent on fossil fuels. It's estimated that about 60% of the world's use of oil goes to transportation activities which are more than 95% dependent on fossil fuels. An OECD study estimated that the global transport sector accounts for 20-25% of carbon emissions, with some 66% of this figure accounted for by emissions in the industrialized countries.
Global Trade: Deeply Dysfunctional
From the point of view of environmental sustainability, global trade has become deeply dysfunctional. Take agricultural trade. As the International Forum on Globalization has pointed out, the average plate of food eaten in Western industrial food-importing nations is likely to have traveled 1,500 miles from its source. Long-distance travel contributes to the absurd situation wherein "three times more food is used to produce food in the industrial agricultural model than is derived in consuming it."
The WTO has been a central factor in increasing carbon emissions from transport. A study by the OECD done in the mid-nineties estimated that by 2004, the year marking the full implementation of free-trade commitments under the WTO's Uruguay Round, there would have been an increase in the transport of internationally traded goods by 70% over 1992 levels. This figure, notes the New Economics Foundation, "would make a mockery" of the Kyoto Protocol's mandatory emissions reduction targets for the industrialized countries.
Transportation: More Fossil Intensive than Ever
Ocean shipping accounts for nearly 80% of the world's international trade in goods. The fuel commonly used by ships is a mixture of diesel and low-quality oil known as "Bunker C," which has high levels of carbon and sulfur. As Jerry Mander and Simon Retallack point out, "If not consumed by ships, it would otherwise be considered a waste product."
Aviation, which has the highest growth rate as a mode of transport, is also the fastest growing source of greenhouse gas emissions, with its consumption of fuel expected to rise by 65% from 1990 levels by 2010, according to one study cited by the New Economics Foundation. Other estimates are more pessimistic, with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) suggesting that fuel consumption by civil aviation is going up at the rate of three percent a year and could rise by nearly 350% from 1992 levels by 2050. Note Mander and Retallack: "Each ton of freight moved by plane uses forty nine times as much energy per kilometer as when it's moved by ship....A two-minute takeoff by a 747 is equal to 2.4 million lawn mowers running for twenty minutes." In support of trade expansion and global economic growth, authorities have by and large not taxed aviation fuel as well as marine bunker fuel, which now account for 20% of all emissions in the transport sector.
Along with fossil-fuel-intensive air transport, fossil-fuel-intensive road transport has also been favored by the expansion of world trade, instead of modes with less emission intensities like rail and marine traffic. In the European Union, for instance, the focus on building up a road transport network led an OECD study to comment that "the way in which the EU liberalization policy has been implemented has favored the less environment-friendly modes and accelerated the decline of rail and inland waterways."
Decoupling Growth and Energy: a PanaceaThere has been talk about decoupling trade and growth from energy or shifting from fossil fuels to other, less carbon-intensive energy sources. The reality is that the other energy sources being seriously considered are either dangerous, like nuclear power; with deleterious side-effects, like biofuels' negative impact on food production; or science fiction as this stage, like carbon sequestration and storage technology. For the foreseeable future, trade expansion and global growth will fall in line with their historical trajectory of being correlated with increased greenhouse gas emissions.
A sharp U-turn in consumption and growth in the developed countries and a significant decrease in global trade are unavoidable if we are to have a viable strategy against climate change. This will set the stage for a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, including from the energy-intensive transportation sector. The outcome of the Doha negotiations will determine whether free trade will intensify or lose momentum. A successful conclusion to Doha will bring us closer to uncontrollable climate change. It will continue what the New Economics Foundation describes as "free trade's free ride on the global climate."
A derailment of Doha won't be a sufficient condition to formulate a strategy to contain climate change. But given the likely negative ecological consequences of a successful deal, it's a necessary condition.




43 Comments so far
Show AllAnd now for your up to date methane forecast.
Surface ocean waters off of Newfoundland have reached 6 degrees Fahrenheit above normal for this time of year. That's because there's no ice left to cool this water. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/atl_anom.gif
Also from noaa maps, mid-Pacific ocean temperatures at 40 degrees longitude, 180 degrees latitude have gone off-scale on the high end. They're at least 9 degrees above normal.
I'll see what I can find on surface temperatures of the Arctic Ocean's continental shelf waters, most of which have been absorbing sunlight and heating for weeks.
The biological race between civilized man and uncivilized man is nearing it's end. Uncivilized man is more powerful, short sighted, and will likely kill us all.
WOW..a 'a 2 minute 747 take off is equal to 2.4 million lawnmowers running for 20 minutes'....Man, the whole Methane gas ocean warming/Siberian permafrost warming is getting me depressed...Especially since I read that NASA says the Artic ice (reflects 60% of Sun's heat?)may be ice-free by summer of 2012 which fits right in with the Mayan 2012 prophecies...Well folks, if we all go out in one big Methane Burp let's chant a big AUM/OM & reincarnate next time with a little more power over our corporate controlled governments!
Behind it all is population growth and endless money-power concentration. But this is the one that cannot be mentioned.
PaulK - Can't wait until Sigi and MiMi show up, point to the bluish spot on your NOAA map, and claim the Atlantic is cooling.
People, even if everyone in your state stopped mowing their lawn for a year, one aircraft takeoff wipes out that gain. And whose aircraft are always taking off, without transporting anything of commercial value? The US military. One way or another, the MIC will kill us all.
Thank you ~WCDEVINS~ They will likely show up, along with ~Geo522~ and lately, ~Veracity or ~Presence~. Those types are very harmful and do all that they possibly can to insure nothing productive will be done in time to help solve the problem. Is there a pending issue of more importance than global warming and the end result of it?
And ~PAULK~ keep those comments and links coming. I say that you are a true blessing for all of humanity, I say it, in case you didn't know it.
KEM PATRICK July 29th, 2008 2:53 pm
"Those types are very harmful and do all that they possibly can to insure nothing productive will be done in time to help solve the problem."
That's a little harsh Kem. There are other belief systems other than science that have a longer survival history. I believe that progress is made when people are in balance. American's do not know the meaning of balance and therefore have little chance of mitigating climate change in time to avoid serious outcomes. Self is a lifeway that does not easily change and therefore is unlikely to act. The outlook is very bleak.
PaulK, that's just Newfoundland's economy, heating up the surrounding water. No need to worry, you see, they found oil, and their sucking it up, big time. Who needs cod, when you got oil?
What do you do with a drunk'n rig worker?
What do you do with a drunk'n rig worker?
What do you do with a drunk'n rig worker?
Earl-eye in du mornin?
Put him in a half - ton, till he's sober
Put him in a half - ton, till he's sober
Put him in a half - ton, till he's sober
Earl-eye in du mornin.
Walden Bello is absolutely right in wishing for the death of the 'Doha' round of talks but his focus is on its impact on climate change. While thats admirable and all that he fails to mention, even in passing, the devastating effect the WTO and Globalisation has on the farmers in developing countries and the horribly under-reported phenomenon on farmer suicides in India and other places.
Hopefully India, Brazil and other countries put their foot down and squelch this 'doha' round of the WTO. Of course, our corporate 'farmers' are gonna throw a hissy fit but who gives a f__k again ??
A little harsh? I thought I was being overly sympathetic and gracious to the deniers ~DOOM AND GLOOM~. Lately I'm attempting to be more pleasant with obtuse and ignorant fools here than I used to be. But then we all have our opinions.
I know of no other issue that humanity is causing and humanity can attempt to correct, where almost all life could easily be eradicated within hours on Earth, than when the Arctic's and oceans methane gas burps out into our atmosphere due to global warming.
The more who become aware of that stark possibility and reality, the better chance we have of action being initiated to prevent that human caused disaster. When people publically deny the current global warming and deny it is caused from burning coal over the past 200+ years, they are more than very harmful. That's my opinion about deniers on the subject ~Doom and Gloom~.
http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html
And this link well supports the author's comments of the previous link.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080423_methane.html
The Doha round has officially crashed and burned. What steps do we take now, considering the awfully destructive status quo that Bello highlights? Where do we look for leadership? How can we organize our economies differently when we essentially have no say in what our governments do?
"we essentially have no say in what our governments do"
We only have a say in what we do.
Dump the TV
Avoid buying 'things'
Grow a garden & call it Eden.
PaulK. Should be nice swimming in this localized area this summer. Have fun.
For the rest of those accepting their punishment to live like 3rd worlders from the malthusian high priests of AGW, for their sins against Gaia, some sanity and hope from the Land of Oz by a fellow heretic/denialist.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_seven_graphs_to_end_the_warming_hype/
Keep up the name calling. Defenders of deception never bother with fools. Must be hitting a nerve.
Howdy, howdy, howdy ~MIMI~ thanks for the Loooooooooooooooong and useless to the issue link, which screwed up the thread for reading real good.
Ya didn't do on purpose did ya?
That last link I posted, proves that you are all wet
on the issue. Ya wanna reply to it? Ha Ha, of course not.
Last year Co2 increases measured 2.4 monocules of gas added
to every molecule of air, which boosted the global concentration
to 385ppm. Pre-industrial revolution concentration Co2 levels
were 280ppm until 1850. HUMAN ACTIVITY, led by burning coal, has
accelerated those Co2 levels to 380ppm and every day that number
increases. 350ppm is the scientifically recognized tipping point.
As Co2 levels rise in the atmosphere, the Greenhouse effect increases
and global warming continues unabated. As that transpires, the very
important Arctic ice, which normally reflects a great deal of sunbeams
melts away, and it is now projected the Arctic will be almost entirely ice
free within five years or less. That is not the only problem.
As the Arctic thaws, the methane which is safely locked up in the Arctic's
frozen perma-frost, is able to escape into the atmosphere which is a far
more potent Greenhouse gas than Co2 is. It's 25 times as potent and methane
in the atmophere also rose by an alarming rate in 2007 and it will be even
highrer this year. That causes the FEEDBACK situation. More warming, more methane
releases, more methane, faster warming. It could be likened to an accelerating
choo-choo train. Wooo wooo, choo-choo-choo-choo, faster and faster. Maybe you
can understand that child like anology ~MIMI~, as you don't seem to understand
the words and warnings of distinguished, highly qualifed and world renouned scientists, who spend their lives studying the issue.
looks like the chinese just derailed it for us and doomed the climate. everything takes a back seat to double digit growth. folks its time to stop thinking only the western world is responsible for all that is wrong. The chinese are big boys now, and if they want in on the family of man they play by western rules. Hows that for you students of eastern philosophy who think the asians and there culture are sooooooo vaaaaastly superior to western culture. Climate change be damned - captain kirk has set the USS india and USS china to.... FULL GROWTH
oh yeah....... set your phazers to stun.
KEM PATRICK -- I have no intention of getting into the climate change arguments here as I've already wasted precious hours/days/weeks elsewhere talking to fence posts.
CO2 has been recognized for decades as the primary culprit in former episodes of global warming. The difference now is that human produced CO2 (from the fact that humans are special) is magic and won't produce the same results. Isn't that self-evident?
~ARRY~ You address me and you say that you have NO intention of getting
into the climate change arguments here? ___Really?? Well surprise, surprise,
you're here.
Are you serious when you say that the Co2 humans produce is different than
the Co2 which was produced prior to humans arrival on Earth? You cannot be
serious. So what is the point you are attempting to make? Sorry, I fail to
understand your point. Do you know what Co2 is?
Excessive Co2 in the Permian era for one example, was released into the
atmosphere by volcanic activity. "Excess" Co2 is currently being released
into the atmosphere from our burning fossil fuels. Excessive Co2 from
whatever source will cause a Greenouse effect in the atmosphere and global
warming will result. That is exactly what is happening now and what resulted
in the Permian era of Earth's long history, will re-occur when enough methane
gas releases into the atmosphere.
KEM - step back a little - it seems to me ARRY is being sarcastic and has butted his head up against the deniers too many times to do it again. His "magic human CO2" seems to be a way of lampooning the deniers views.
I recognize the sarcasm because I often use it here on CD and am sometimes misread...
wc
Humans release 3% of total CO2 into the air. Thats right, 3%.
CO2 values have increased from 280 ppm to 380 pppm. Temperatures rose 0.6 deg C over 125 years. Life is good.
These are inarguable facts. Now if you want to believe we are going to be toasted, having reached an unproven tipping point of 350 ppm CO2. And if you believe our CO2 lasts over 100 years in the atmosphere, then certainly you might accept that reducing the USA CO2 emissions while Asias emissions are accelerating is pointless.
Consider this"
http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2008/07/hypocrisies.html
"Between 1997 and 2004, carbon dioxide emissions rose as follows:
Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%;
Emissions from countries that ratified the protocol increased 21.1%;
Emissions from non-ratifiers of the protocol increased 10.0%;
Emissions from the US (a non-ratifier) increased 6.6%;
Emissions from the US increased less than 75% of ratifying countries.
With respect to the last point, the following are the percentage rises in emissions for a list of selected countries which have ratified the protocol (or which were exempted from targets): Maldives, 252%; China, 55%; Luxembourg, 43%; Iran, 39%; Norway, 24%; Russia, 16%; Italy, 16%; Finland, 15%; Mexico, 11%; Japan, 11%; Canada, 8.8%."
Doesn't seem like we are doing so bad, and BTW, compared to many of these countries, the US, including it's unmanaged forests in Alaska whose CO2 uptake does not get counted, is greener than many countries.
Now, if we could just stop the immigration growth, CO2 emissions from the US will decrease.
KEM -- It was a joke. A little satire on deniers. I thought *that* was evident. You didn't really think I thought human-produced CO2 was magic?! :-)
No, your posts are right on.
It's true, however, that I spent a month or so laying out the evidence point-by-point to a group of ostriches and the end result was a lot of stupid, hysterical, irrelevant LOLs, ROFLMAO's and so on and accusations of being on Al Gore's payroll. I'm kinda burned out for awhile anyway.
KEM PATRICK. You keep posting the 1st link (do you have a financial interest in the hits that site gets), and I have already given my opinion on another thread.
The second link, talks about a 1 year increase in CO2 and CH4 (BTW, CH4 had not been increasing for almost a decade before this rise) . There is no evidence that this increase has contributed to global warming. Hate to break the news for you, but global temperatures "decreased" last year and have continued to plummet in 2008 through June, globally.
Oh thank goodness ~ARRY~, I was afraid a new denier had arrived. Whewwww.
We already have too many of em here. And I get tired of answerig their
ignorant comments too. They don't understand, as MIMI's latest proves.
You had me goin for awhile. Yes, and whenever I use sarcasm, which can be
an effective and a strong tool, I have learned here to be careful, or expect
some flak from somebody.
The Right says, "Doing anything to slow down Global Warming, will kill the Economy". Or "We can't do anything as it will cost to much".
Well we don't need Global Warming, W and the GOP have killed the Economy already. It is the Shock doctrine.
I heard it on C-Span today. Oil is up, it is hurting people. The people don't care about the Environment when they can't drive or keep a roof over their heads. So what is the Fix. We have to Drill, off the Coasts, and open up ANWR. That's the ticket.
It doesn't matter if the Oil companies, don't have the gear to drill, or aren't drilling on the leases they already have. We have to open it up, to send a message. See how the price went down on Oil when W said it was OK.
Congress also sent a message at the same time, speculators beware, and regulations are coming.
The GOP has been running this country for the last 7 years. For the first 6, W didn't veto anything. They got us in the ditch and actually wanted us in it.
UBL doesn't need to attack America again and try to wreak the Economy, the GOP is doing it for him.
If you want more of the same Vote for McCain..
Your question if I am profiting from posting that link is a nasty
insult MIMICCS. Why would you call me "dishonest"? Call me an asshole,
if you like, or a bullheaded shit-head, or a fucking moron, but don't attack
my integrety.
I post it becaue I personlly believe it it is not only accurate, but it's
perhaps the most important article available for all of humanity. Yes you
have replied to it previosly, but your repy did not makea a lick of sense.
Humans emit 3% of the Co2 in our atmoshere? The proven problem MIMI,
and you never answer it, is: Co2 in the atmosphere began to accelerate
very rapidly, AFTER our industrial revolution. About 50% of the Co2 will
stay in the atmosphere for 100 years or so. Nature emits and takes Co2 from
our atmosphere and it balances out. By burning fossil fuels humanity has upset
that balance.
And why would you hate to break the news to me, that temperatures have
decreased? Do you think that I want to see global warming continue?
Let me ask you something, where do you get the information that temps have
decreased globally last year? And do you disagree that the Arctic is thawing
at a rate that alarms scientists who are there studying the region.
Now that last link I posted is from our government's weather outfit, the NOAA.
In that link, they state that humanity is causing the current global warming
problem by burning fossil fuels. Do you disagree with them? Do you disagree
with the atmospheric scientists at NASA, and the EPA, and the Far North Alaska scientists, and the British scientists who are workng at the South Pole? Tell
us why all of those dedicated scientists are wrong ~MIMI~. Please do Tell us,
as they ALL disagree with comments such as you post here.
`
The last time anyone saw Dubya reading anything was 9/11/01. He appeared to be challenged.
Angry denier on CD calls GW alarmists "retards".
Administration refuses to let Dubya read "chilling" EPA GW report.
What are they afraid of? Its only 5 months to the ex-presidential slacker, burnout, alcoholic, coke head, socially promoted, family money rich old fart pasture.
riddimboy,
If you Google Walden Bello you will see that he has spent decades analyzing every aspect of "globalization" and the IMF, WB, and WTO, and he is extremely astute on the agricultural issue you mention as well as pretty much every aspect of why "globalization" is so bad for people and the planet, especially for already disempowered people and countries. He is focusing on one narrow issue in this article, but he has a comprehensive analysis.
But where are the swarms of foolish deniers here today? Usually five or six swoop in when an article about climate change is posted at CD.
Maybe they are getting a bit tired of working so hard to deny reality and confuse readers? Probably not...
At least MiMiCcSs is here for comic relief. Thanks, MiMi!
Hey, ain't I funny too?
Back to the subject, Mimi went to a lot of trouble categorizing countries by GW talk and walk. There is a lot of hypocrisy. For example, how could the UK sign Kyoto while embarking on a huge airport expansion? Cap and trade offset efforts, so far, appear to be a money grubbing "greenwashing" joke.
The market adjusting to high fuel costs will help a little. Some companies who did the lemming thing and offshored to China are finding transportation costs have eaten up all those sweatshop labor, tax, and no environmental or safety regulation savings.
webwalk, at least we agree on the evils of globalization. AGW is a tool to facilitate it.
Somebody said once "we should call every truth false if it was not accompanied by at least one laugh". Hope it was a good one.
KEM PATRICK said "Your question if I am profiting from posting that link is a nasty insult MIMICCS. Why would you call me "dishonest"? Call me an asshole, if you like, or a bullheaded shit-head, or a fucking moron, but don't attack my integrety."
A little too defensive for someone who claims all scientists who are skeptics are bought by Big Oil. But my apologies if you are a true believer in your religion.
KEM "Humans emit 3% of the Co2 in our atmoshere? The proven problem MIMI,
and you never answer it, is: Co2 in the atmosphere began to accelerate
very rapidly, AFTER our industrial revolution. About 50% of the Co2 will
stay in the atmosphere for 100 years or so. Nature emits and takes Co2 from
our atmosphere and it balances out. By burning fossil fuels humanity has upset that balance."
I have posted information before questioning the validity of the CO2 historical data from the ice cores previously. New CO2 emitted is about 215 GTons, and 212 Gtons is absorbed (the numbers based on memory, might be a little off). Man emits 7 Gtons. The atmosphere has 750 Gtons of CO2. Do the math, 100 years makes no sense.
Incidentally, man is a part of nature and it seems unlikely climate does not have adequate feedback control to address a 3% increase in CO2 emissions without dire consequences for the planet. The limited temperature increases since 1850 show that it does. The fact that the IPCC admits to a low understanding of solar forcing on climate, and our lack of understanding of precipitation systems and their interactions with the climate, not to mention the lack of decent historical data on cloud cover, water vapour and preciptation indicate the disproof of their hypothesis lies there and will be difficult. But if you can't get funding, or get published because they want to protect the myth for social control purposes, it will be hard to disprove it short of the next ice age.
KEM "And why would you hate to break the news to me, that temperatures have
decreased? Do you think that I want to see global warming continue?
Let me ask you something, where do you get the information that temps have
decreased globally last year? "
See, you didn't even open my link since this was right at the top. I do not know what you think. I do think supporters of AWG just want to use it lower the developed worlds standards of living and to transfer wealth to developing nations so we can be comfortable merged into a one World Government. Many supporters truly believe this is necessary for mans future. But they are pawns in the hands of evil.
KEM "And do you disagree that the Arctic is thawing
at a rate that alarms scientists who are there studying the region."
It alarms some scientists, not others. It thawed in 1940 and in the MWP.
KEM "Now that last link I posted is from our government's weather outfit, the NOAA. In that link, they state that humanity is causing the current global warming problem by burning fossil fuels. Do you disagree with them? Do you disagree with the atmospheric scientists at NASA, and the EPA, and the Far North Alaska scientists, and the British scientists who are workng at the South Pole? Tell us why all of those dedicated scientists are wrong ~MIMI~. Please do Tell us, as they ALL disagree with comments such as you post here."
And other scientists disagree with them that any man made global warming is a problem. Yet you insult their integrity by calling them lackeys of Big Oil.
I weary of discussing the issue with believers who have no open mind, like the religous on the right.
Science has been corrupted by postmodernists who believe in the right of elite to impose on us their own visions of the world and versions of events. If a research finding could harm a class of persons, or more importantly, the elites neo-malthusian Globalization agenda, then the theory is that scientists should change the way they talk about that finding, and if they don't, they don't get funded or published. Since scientific method is a way of building a body of knowledge based on skeptical testing, replication, and publication, this is a problem.
The scientific method mandates figuring out what would disprove the theory being tested and then looking for the disproof. The thought process that spawned the scientific revolution was inherently skeptical.
Postmodernist schools of thought and scientific method are polar opposites. AGW seems to be the first postmodernist religion, sorry, I meant science.
As to conflict of interest.From Roy Spencer:
http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm
"The dirty little secret is that environmental organizations and global warming pessimists receive far more money from Big Oil than do global warming optimists such as myself. While professional environmental lobbyists are totally dependent upon environmental crises for their continued existence, atmospheric researchers and meteorologists have day jobs which are not. Some outspoken global warming pessimists have received large cash awards (hundreds of thousands of dollars) for the positions they have taken; there are no such monetary awards for global warming optimists. Instead, we have to endure scorn from several outspoken peers in the scientific community, some of whom are successful at thwarting our publication of scientific articles and government funding of our research proposals.
As long as the global warming pessimists can convince the public that we skeptics are simply shills for Big Oil, they do not have to address our scientific arguments. The claims that there are no peer-reviewed scientific articles that oppose a manmade source of global warming are, quite simply, wrong. Fortunately, the tide is slowly turning, and increasing numbers of scientists are now speaking out about their doubts concerning mankind's role in recent global warmth."
Follow the money. Who will profit from AWG being accepted as fact?. Due to interlocking directorships, Big oil, Banking and environmental Industries are all linked. Those who suffer will be the some ones who suffer from the Peak oil myth and Big Oils cartels and financial speculation.
If you wish to respond to this, I will let you have the last word.
Corection, I meant carbon in CO2, not CO2.
"New CO2 emitted is about 215 GTons of carbon, and 212 Gtons is absorbed (the numbers based on memory, might be a little off). Man emits 7 Gtons of carbon as CO2. The atmosphere has 750 Gtons of Carbon as CO2. Do the math, 100 years makes no sense."
~Mimic~ You have failed your objective. Abort mission and return to sleep mode. Abort mission and stand down.
set phazers to FUN!
James Hansen has been predicting global warming caused by green-house gas emissions since 1981, and so far his predictions have been right on target, and he was usually the most pessimistic researchwer in the field.
Who should we believe, James Hansen or a bunch of clowns from Big Oil who can't predict or explain anything?
set the phazers to INSANE! That's what worrying about this crap is!!
Obviously you have already set yours to insame GEO
Thank you for the last word here ~MIMI~, This will be it then. Unless
another denier shows up.
First, I never have said all scientists who deny global warming are paid
shills, nor do I believe you are a paid shill ~MIMI~. I beleve the paid shills
are more devious than you are. You're just obtuse when it concerns this
subject. I say that, because there are several very importnat items that
you never address or reply to with any sensible language.
One is: If global warming is a myth, how can anyone HONESTLY state that the
Arctic is not thawing at a rate unpresidented in history? Last year is the
first time in recorded history that ships could traverse the North West Passage
without the use of ice breakers to lead the way. At the current thawing rate, the
Arctic will be totally ice free within five years or less. The Arctic has
never been ice free for hundreds of millions of years. Now it is or will be
shortly. Wonder why that is, if as you claim, we are in a cooling period?
Number two is: There are many atmospheric scientits, many geologists, many
climatic scientis throughout the world. Many work for NASA, NOAA, EPA, etc.
The consensus of the vast majority of those scientists, geologists, is that
the Greenhouse effect, the current global warming, is as factual as the Earth
is a sphere and it rotates on it's axis. They also have a firm consensus that
humanity is causing the global warming by burning fossil fuels. There are a
minority of scientists who belileve otherwise. You and a few other deniers
choose to support the opinions of the vast minority, I choose to support the
vast majority.
I support the majority because I can see with my own eyes that the Arctic is
thawing and is doing so at an alarmng rate, it is not doing so over a period of several million years time as it has done multi-millions of years in the past.
The Arctic is thawing at an alarmng rate in just the past "two years" time. What
is occuring this last year was not foreseen by any scientists. That 350ppm of
Co2 in our atmoophere is very important and evidently the scientists who warned
it was the tipping point were right on.
Now ~MIMI~ you are fully aware that I am not a scientist, nor am I qualified to offer
scientific opinions on ANYTHING. Al Gore is not qualifed either, and I'm
certain he is far more educated than I am. Gore however also has taken the
words of the majority and likely he can see with his own eyes, that the Arctic's
ice is indeed rapidly melting away and it should not be doing that. Gore had
and has the name ID and the power to have a film about global warming produced.
The film lays it out scientifically, as Gore used the vast majority scientists
words and it is very difficult for anyone to argue it with any credibility.
However, many do argue it and as they cannot do so HONESTLY or with credibility,
so they twist truths and confuse the issue and that is done with the monetary assistance of big oil. Greed has overcome common sense and that sin of course
is a crime that has been committed ever since humanilty first arrived on this here planet.
So ~MIMI~ ~GEO~ and all of the other global warming deniers who post comments
here on this issue, you have chosen your path on the subject, I have chosen
mine and I do thank the many bloggers like ~PAULK~ and ~BBR~, etc, who have helped
me to learn the truth of the issue, the very most important issue humanity has ever
had to deal with. And so far humanity is not dealing with it, mainly
because big oil execs and other money controllers of the world have allowed GREED to
overcome their commmon sense.
These two links are all we need to understand that we have a most serious
problem and time is running out for life on this planet and we have no other
planet to run to. And neither do the children of the world, who are going to be
left with what we leave them have anyplace to run to, or to hide when the
Arctic's methane suddenly burps out and global warming then begins in earnest.
One more time, and if any here have never read these links, you ought to give it
a shot and then consider if the authors are correct. For if they are correct,
and the scientific evidense is they most certainly are, then perhaps you will
relaize that time is short and this subject is not really funny, nor is it
sensible to joke about it, for it is deadly serious. But we should maintain our
sense of humor, so let's laugh at ourselves and remember our children as we do.
http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080423_methane.html
1
Well it looks as if this article is already a dead issue, as no one has
posted a comment for the past two days. ___ I'll post another anyway.
When the Arctic's methane is released into our atmosphere, it will raise the
amount of Co2 in our atmosphere from the current (385ppm) which is (35)above
the tipping point, to (135,000,000, 385ppm ) an increase of a hundred and thirty
five MILLION ppm. Now I'm not a genius with math, but that's what I figured using
the data available in those two links I posted.
I wonder if that bothers anybody?
Oops, typo. 135 billion PPB (parts per billion) of CH4, up from 1,800 ppb.
Worldwide we need to promote and support diversified local agriculture that is geared toward feeding people rather than growing single cash crops. Diversified local smaller scale farming has so many benefits, including nutrition, soil rotation and providing stable livlihoods for farming populations. It will make it harder for a few corporations to manipulate the food supply and force us to accept genetic mutations and abominations like sterile seeds. It will cut down on the length of journeys to transport food from the growing place to the market. That will reduce need for burning hydrocarbons.