> "We must demand that Congress exercise its constitutional authority and block a war on Iran."

The great Joe Parko. What a relief, to see you're on the case, and moved away from stuffy Atlanta, to the fresh air of the Cumberland Plateau, free air conditioning.

There're few votes in Congress, to prevent a war they all want, most of them.

But they don't drop bombs.

The people who do that, they aren't on AIPAC's payroll, they don't get a piece of the laundered $3 billion, cash U.S. taxpayers deposit in Israel's NYC bank account, at the start of each year, taxpayer-paid free trips to Israel, and such.

They're patsies, destined to do hard time, if they obey patently criminal orders, "Bombing Iran's IAEA safe-guarded nuclear facilities."

Let's don't waste our effort, feed our misery, appealing to Congressional hoodlums, the Israelites.

Instead, let's inform the weapons release officers, and their combat chains of command, that we all know, what is, and what is not, a lawful "military objective." And we're going to devote our efforts, to make sure, after they're done, that they complete their role, as the designated patsies, and do hard time, for a long time, if they obey.

Get Real! If W starts a war with Iran right away, the US war machine will get the hell beat out of it. Let's not stand in the way of progress. The bad guys want the war until they get the hell beat out of them, then they can go cry in the beer, and we progressives can celebrate the return of the Vietnam Syndrome. Hey, we can say, "We kicked the empire syndrome."

let me clear this with the misses first... in our family it a democracy ya know. I think?

directdemo and others:

Yes, I wrote the "I give up" comments. You know what? I've tried to inform myself of the issues at hand. I've written my congressman and senators. I've gotten back crap that rationalizes the short-sighted and ignorant policies cited in CD. It's hard for me to see what to do about it. Corruption gets you access to money, which allows you to buy the system. Buying the system circumvents democracy.

We are getting towards the endgame of democracy in our country, and nothing short of a massive show of people power in support of our own democratic principles will make any difference. If you've witnessed the recent militant rants by your fellow Americans for cheap gasoline, and the demand to open up ANWR for drilling, you should have a very good idea of how imminent the seizure of democracy will be. Save your preaching for someone for which it will make a difference.

satr9prodxns July 28th, 2008 2:20 pm
remind any servicemembers you know that there's no glory in dying because it's suits the fanciful whims of a felon.

then suggest they recite 5 times in the mirror each day:

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I saw, recently, on the boob toob, a "human interest" story about a mother taking her son to Annapolis to enter the Naval Academy. His induction ceremony was filmed. The phrase "FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC" has been DROPPED from that pledge.

Kent

Hey, I know enough chords to fake my way thru a lot of songs. Can I bring my acoustic guitar?

Kent

MARC: IF everyone from CD comes to your barbecue, we could have a regular WOODSTOCK, render your acreage the next Yasgar's farm... musicians among us? Vegetarians can bring their food for a real feast...

Thad Stephens: I'v been planning my backyard BBQ for a while now. Its gonna be great lots of fun with food and drink. If your interested in hanin' out let me know. I'm planning on having a couple of single chicks there - and no they are not single because they look like al franken. Come on, a few weekends a year folks get to have fun and blow off some steam..... whats wrong with that? And give me a break, do you spend all your waking hours thinging progressive thoughts or do you sometimes think about............. .. .... .. . . .

directdemo:

Presto. This is the global citizen movement that is needed for these times. On a local and regional level, direct democracy. Linked across the continent(s) and planet into a coherent whole of CULTURAL nations forming one global society of humans.

For this to work, as so well stated, it will take years of effort that is going on while the criminal system crumbles, partly due to it´s own fallacious reasoning as a system, and partly due to the disasters already created.

As more and more individuals link locally and, as in the past, tune in to a sensible message, turn on to personal experience, and drop out of a failed social system, change will start breaking out all over the place.

Why?

Because people will discover that a social system based on balanced reasoning is actually more personally rewarding, more socially fulfilling, more mentally/spiritually enlightening, than any shop till ya drop/consumerism is your duty third rate effort such as the entire planet has now seen far too much of, could ever successfully pretend to be.

The concept of tribalism, communalism, the clan, etc. is by far a more workable social solution than the masses of humanity pandering the psychopathic whims of the criminally affluent few.

Over here we are currently working on the issues surrounding "loose" communalism, ie, people share the various workloads of living where it makes sense to do so and thread their own courses as they choose where it is not necessary or warranted. There are of course social mores and limitations, and agreed standards of moral and ethical natures that encompass the whole effort.

We really and truly need to simply step back from the abyss and let the fools go sliding off the cliff they have created;

-- COLLECT your local group and start genuine operations planning for daily
living in order to extricate as much as possible of your lives and
ultimately to live outside the failing system:

-- PLAN all/as many of your necessary trips together.

Use as few vehicles as possible and preferably master bike-loading so that you leave the vehicles and make a team outing of it; do what the Vietnamese could do thru the deepest jungle: tote up to 600 kilos of weight on those bikes and take your time about it. Too poor for bikes? Dumpster/backdoor the gig and start walking. Work in groups.

-- STOP purchasing ANYTHING from the industrial food outlets and their appendages such as the multitude of "fast" food megacorporations. The honest joy of sharing, preparing, eating, and storing wholesome foods cannot be overstated when it comes to mental and social health. Slopping down a fastfood anything with that swill that does NOT make things better is hardly conducive to constructive, creative, healthy social change.

-- GROW anything you can, wherever you are. Trust me, even if you are nearly destitute, have no hopes,desires,job, prospects, furniture, whatever... if you grow small plants on your window sill you will gain something back inside yourself that you presumed lost. If you go even further and work together to create a small plot and work it together you will gain back even more.

One thing is dead certain. If you live in an urban environment or have done so most of your life, what you do will not even come close to the reality of actually being d e p e n d e n t on one´s own back-breaking and heart-wrenching efforts to keep a family farm running in the times and raw deals small farms have been given in the "corporate" age. It will do you good though, in more ways than one!

-- SERVE. If you can walk or roll you can help. Get over to the shelter and do anything needed. If you want to feel better, forget yourself. If you want to feel hope give some to somebody and you will.

No shelter near you? Start one. Soon you will have a local clan, fit, ready, and able.

-- SHARE everything. It really isn´t that hard. Keep the precious and let the rest be available to the community. Leaders don´t take. They sacrifice.
That´s why they are leaders, they can be trusted to serve something higher and greater than themselves which they can clearly see and understand.

-- BARTER just about anything. Connect with other groups if you can and arrange the event; include music, food, handicrafts, street theater, educational events, childrens activities, guest speakers, et al, and make a new/old concept come alive; market day.

Everyone of us has it in us to be a leader (example) at all times.

-- RESIST all efforts by the enemy, on any level, at any given time, according to the immediate circumstances at that moment. Within every clan there will be a surprising amount of various talents and abilities...targets of opportunity abound at all times.

-- CREATE a new symbol for a new age; a global symbol, a symbol of humanities (natures) ability to resist, ability to adapt and transcend.

You know why I say this; look at the impact of symbology thru the ages...peace symbol, anyone? holy cross? just two examples but you get my drift.

The war for possession of the planet will not be won with guns.

The enemy is going to lose precisely due to the fact that it is trapped inside it´s own mental delusion concerning realities of life on this planet for human beings as well as all other life...

It will be won thanks to superior reasoning ability.

Thanks again.

The American citizenry sleeps, watches TeeVee, chooses their new color of nail polish, goes to ball games, barbecues hot dogs and walks the dog, oblivious to the outside world. The political elite, including all of the candidates for Prez, want to keep folks in a somnambulist state because it's easier to oppress folks who are too busy with their motorboats to pay attention.

Americans occasionally glance at what's going on and then decide to give control back to the elites while they plan the next backyard gathering.

You are the water, not the boat.

If the democrats don't do anything to stop an attack on Iran, it will be the democrat's war!!!!!!

Shoot Bush third.

'Well, you and I don't control what our government does. When it was brought to Cheney's attention that the majority of US citizens oppose the Iraq war and want our troops withdrawn, his response was "So?"."

'"If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears. I'm getting tired of reading these articles - and the critical comments - and not seeing any real attitude toward "progress."'

These two comments show the main theme throughout the comments. It is that we do not have control of our government, that we do not have democracy in any real sense (Hamilton called representative democracy an aristocracy in complete seriousness and without irony). The second part is that we don't know what do about it and are weary of the same ol', same ol'.

It seems simple enough, we need to take control of our government. I'm sure a lot of people will talk of armed revolution and such and if a million+ americans pick up a gun, I'll do the same, but I'm not running out to the gun shop just yet. So what to do?

I'm humble enough not to make fanciful claims that this strategy will definitely work and fits every situation and can reach any goal. I think many of us are sick of such claims. But it's novel for our time and the only way to find out what it's limits are is to try it.

What I propose is a strategy that moves us not only away from the two party system, as many have demanded we do, but that we begin to move away from the party system (rep. demo) all together. Begin local campaigns to institute direct democracy, as these gain ground, connect with other campaigns and hopefully grow into a national movement that eventually threatens the institutions of representative democracy.

I'm in the beginning phase of such a campaign/movement in Madison, WI and I hope that soon to connect to similar campaigns in New Jersey, Vermont and other places I keep reading about. And maybe some of those who read this will join me.

jlocke - I understand the worth of websites like commondreams, and I thoroughly read through each and every comment in an effort to "progress" my level of awareness. But, the inundation of war/torture/environmental woe/political conspiracy article regurgitation and negative commentary are becoming defeatist.

We need more people. We need more passion. We need unity in a common cause. Even the few on this site cannot agree on the path we should take to a better future.

I want to petition for change. I want ALL of the people in the United States to vote third party. Or, I want everyone to, collectively, not vote at all. Or, even simpler yet, I want everyone in this country to seek the truth and have an interest in the governing powers who make the most important decisions about the quality of our lives.

It's not enough for me that the "progressives" that frequent this site will be able to stand in the end, heads held high, and say "we told you so."

Xan: "If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears. I'm getting tired of reading these articles - and the critical comments - and not seeing any real attitude toward "progress." "

Xan, critical reading and making critical comments IS progress. I know it sounds corny but Progress is not a destination, it is a progression. According to chaos theory, the beating of a butterfly's wings can lead to a hurricane. So who is to say what the effects of websites like this one are?

When was this "recent" meeting that left the Israeli hawks satisfied? Before or after US envoys visited Iranian nuclear negotiations?

Adel: Did they actually withdraw BOTH carrier groups out of the Gulf? When? That could be a very bad sign.

Is this article a rehash of what Scott Ritter has already told us, or is there some news here?

Bush & Co. do not need more money.. they are set for life.

Bush and Co. then need not worry about food, shelter, or even the price of gas. They are set for life.

More lies and another potential war.. the Bush way. Will someone remove Bush & Co. from office and try them before they help destroy our existence on this planet. We have cried out long enough. Our economy has been devastated, our lives ruined or comprimised. The welfare for our fellow man is waning. Bush and Co. have GOT to go!

I get the impression everyone is looking for a magic wand to change things. One simple little act that someone can do that magically changes the world.

And, if they don't find it, they immediately give up and start whining 'nothing we can do can change things'.

There is always a lot of ground work and organizing to create change. There is always a lot of work that gets done before change occurs, and which is often ignored even after the change occurs.

And, the way our media and our history tell us what has happened, they ignore this. Instead they focus on 'leaders' who changed things. So, we hear about Samuel Adams and George Washington from the Revolution, but very little about the struggle in New England against the tyranny of the King that had been going on for years before that. In fact, here's a pop quiz. When did the Revolution against King George III begin?

Or, we hear about MLK Jr, but we don't hear about the thousands of activists that helped create that movement.

Think a bit about how this Republican 'revolution' began. It wasn't that Ronald Reagan or Newt Gingrich or Dick Cheney was elected out of the blue one day and changed the world. There had been a lot of hard work both in creating policy options and organizing for years before Reagan won in 1980. There was probably at least a decades work before that.

Or, think a bit about the collapse of the Soviet Union. Do you think that one day magically millions of people suddenly decided to bring it down? No, activists had been working for decades to do the ground work for that.

When things change, they'll change fast. But there are years of work going into it before then.

Just for instance, I'd love to see a chart of the viewership of this site over the years. When it began, there was little else out there except Rush on radio and Drudges site. But over the years this site has become a gathering place for progressives.

The nay-sayers and the prophets of doom who litter these boards pooh-pooh that. But its very important. One thing we have to do is to establish our own channels of information, and our own tools to communicate with each other. This is laying the groundwork for change to come. But there will always be those who sit and whine that since the world didn't change in one day based on one comment, that all of this is useless.

Its not.

The greatest threat to peace and stability in the Middle East is ISRAEL. If you do not believe that, just ask the friends and relatives of the crew members of the USS Liberty, the relatives of those slaughtered by the Maronite allies of Israel at Sabra and Shatilla, and the families of the over 1000 civilians killed by the Israeli indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon in 2006. Unless, or until, Americans throw off the evil yoke of Zionism, we will not be free again.

Lets stop Buch so Obama can do it after he's been sworn in.

That's exactly what Obama just promised Olmert in this recent trip.

"Obama reportedly told Olmert that he is interested in meeting the Iranians in order to issue clear ultimatums. "If after that, they still show no willingness to change their nuclear policy, then any action against them would be legitimate," an Israeli source quoted him as saying. "
--http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1005286.html

Note two things about this. First, its a continuation of Bush's style of 'negotiating'. Which is basically walk in to the room, issue an ultimatum, then start bombing.

Second, its a very clear pledge from Obama to the Israelis that Obama will follow through on the policy of Bush after the elections.

So, lets stop Bush so Obama can do it after he's sworn in.

MS, you're dreaming. McCain doesn't have a prayer.
-- the corporate money has abandoned him for Obama. Obama's raised over $350 million to McCains $130. We are seeing the bizarre notion of the Republican asking for public financing while the Democrats floats in corporate money. If you think corporate money picks the winner, its Obama.
-- The war is still a boat anchor around McCain's neck. It would be more so if the Democrats were running a candidate opposed to these wars, but even so, McCain will never get above about 40%. The true believers on the right still support the war and McCain, but that's just about 25 to 30% of the people. Albeit a noisy group.
-- The right is splintering more than the left normally does. Barr is the leading '3rd Party' candidate with about 6% right now. The Christian right never has liked McCain and will be very unenthusiastic this time around.

In general, is the main purpose of your posts to simply say we are all doomed and that we should just quit? It sure seems that way.

Yes, let's stop Bush so McCain can do it after he's been sworn in.

"If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears. I'm getting tired of reading these articles - and the critical comments - and not seeing any real attitude toward progress.'"

It's understandable frustration. The job of activists is supposed to be twofold: Education and Organization. The "Organization" thing is about joining a group that focuses on an issue you think is important. Education is coming to places like CommonDreams and then using that information in writing letters, conversation, phone calls to your reps (202-224-3121) etc. The frustrating thing to me about these websites is (mostly) not the articles but more the comments section - it's just despair, complaining, attacks on fellow progressives for not being progressive "enough"... There are horribly oppressed people all over the world who do not complain like we do. They just do their activist work and then get up and do it again the next day.

Let's all try sharing information instead of just complaining. How about: everybody has to share one sourced fact on the topic at hand before complaining or opining about how terrible everything is and how stupid everybody is.

I'll start:

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran. Sayyid Ali Khamenei is. Ahmadinejad must take orders from Khamenei. Khamenei has issued a fatwa (religious edict), stating that for Iran to obtain nuclear weapons is haram (forbidden). These people are mostly Shia, they believe that Ayatollahs are holy, like Catholics and the Pope. His word is law. Iran has not done ANYTHING illegal, according to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). We, however, do not follow article 6. According to Article 6, section 2 of the US Constitution, the NPT is "the supreme law of the land" and has the force of domestic law.

Of the 2 candidates that have a chance to win the presidency, I believe that Obama is better on the issue of Iran and on the issue of Non-Proliferation Treaty compliance.

Obama has repeatedly stated his willingness to negotiate with "official enemies" and was attacked by both Democrats and Republicans. John McCain frequently attacks Obama on this issue, and retains the Bush doctrine: Once they've already done what we want, then we'll negotiate. Obama wants to cut missile defense and "weaponization of space" program budgets. McCain wants to increase missile defense and "weaponization of space" program budgets.

I hate to say it, Mordechai, but I have a horrible feeling that you may be right. Sadly, it appears that things are going to have to get much worse before they get any better. One wonders how many of us will be around to see the dawn. Not I, that's for sure.

"If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears. I'm getting tired of reading these articles - and the critical comments - and not seeing any real attitude toward "progress."

Progress is going to have to come from people who don't read or comment about sites like this. And those people are getting ready to elect McCain.

As I like to quote Karl Liebknecht, "THE ENEMY IS AT HOME."

Well, you and I don't control what our government does. When it was brought to Cheney's attention that the majority of US citizens oppose the Iraq war and want our troops withdrawn, his response was "So?".

I'm done being outraged. Face it, we're impotent in dealing with the issues of the day. We don't have a democracy, fair press, decent criminal justice system, equitable economy.....you get the drill. I could go on and on. From now on, I'm focusing on the bright side:

**Just think how much oil consumption will drop when oil hits $400/barrel.
**People will end the lifestyle of consumerism, because when everyone loses their jobs, that will be the only choice.
**Gardening will make a big comeback as people struggle to feed themselves and their families.
**Bicycles will be more prevalent because people won't be able to afford to drive.
**Cycling and walking will increase the fitness of the average American.

I know this outlook is twisted, but we pretty much don't have any control over events. If you figure out a way to make changes, be sure to let me know, and I'll help.

Despite any and all possible consequences regarding military strikes against Iran by Israel and/or the USA, the heads of both these countries want to take Iran on very much. I have no idea why other than to make some money, kill millions of people, leave Iran radioactive, and/or USA and Israel feels paranoid about Iran wanting some nuclear energy. This does not seem worth killing millions of people over only due to Israel and the USA objecting (Europe does to for the most part but they seem to be strong-armed by the USA into going along with an air assault against Iran) to Iran wanting to develop nuclear power in my opinion. I mean...an elementery cost/benefit analysis would conclude that invading Iran to prevent this country from having nuclear capability just does not seem beneficial.

Iran basically asks the question, "Why is it ok for some nations to have nuclear power but not us."

I believe this is a fair question and demonstrates how much Israel and the USA are unable to be friendly towards all nations of the world - to the detriment of humankind.

I'm still waiting to see evidence that Quds is arming anti-US groups. Every photo-op that the US military have pulled to demonstrate that they have found Iranian weapons in Iraq have been utter embarrassments for the US military.

What else can we expect of an organization lead by GWBush?

from the article:

"An attack on Iran by either the U.S. or Israel and the ensuing regional war will propel us into the Armageddon-type scenario in the Middle East relished by the lunatic fringes of the radical Christian right"

a basic understanding of the situation in iraq NEEDS to include some kind of understanding that this scenario is exactly what the american death machine wants, maybe even needs, certainly prefers

the more blood the better

death is life
life is death

it is the shock doctrine in action

god only knows what these sick bastards will do during this kind of conflict - but the implications of martial law in the homeland are stunning

orwellian

total world war

never ending

always beautiful

god bless the united states and the bombs they make - the shock and awe of such beautiful death - dealt from unmanned drones flown from the bunkers in omaha nebraska usa

death is life

the surge is working

Totally unrelated. I'm not sad to see Robert Novak, the flesh eating clown, is dying from a brain tumor. I know it is bad karma but there are some folks who deserve no sympathy. Those who out CIA agents fall into this category.

If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears.

remind any servicemembers you know that there's no glory in dying because it's suits the fanciful whims of a felon.

then suggest they recite 5 times in the mirror each day:

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I WILL PROTECT AND DEFEND MY COUNTRY AND IT'S CITIZENS AGAINST ANY AND ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

"The American people must act to stop this madness. We must raise our voices in protest. We must demand that Congress exercise its constitutional authority and block a war on Iran. We cannot allow the Bush neocons to act out their final bloody fantasy and destroy all hopes for peace in the Middle East."

When, in the last 8 years, has this worked? Protests don't get media coverage, peace groups have become distracted and corrupt, and OUR CONGRESSPEOPLE ARE NOT LISTENING TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS!!

If anyone has a solid solution to stopping this madness, I'm all ears. I'm getting tired of reading these articles - and the critical comments - and not seeing any real attitude toward "progress."

(And, I don't want to hear the "Obama for change" crap. I don't believe it, and you shouldn't either.)

What can we do? What will work? Who will do it?

What, Americans worry? We withdrew our aircraft carriers from the Persian Gulf (out of range). As demonstrated before, cruise missiles work very well for shock and awe.

Superficial! So long as the problem is seen as being one of "stopping Bush", it will remain unresolved.