The Nuclear Regulatory Commission says The Reactor Revival Is NOT Ready For Prime Time
A devastating blow to the much-hyped revival of atomic power has been delivered by an unlikely source---the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The NRC says the "standardized" designs on which the entire premise of returning nuclear power to center stage is based have massive holes in them, and may not be ready for approval for years to come.
Delivered by one of America's most notoriously docile agencies, the NRC's warning essentially says: that all cost estimates for new nuclear reactors---and all licensing and construction schedules---are completely up for grabs, and have no reliable basis in fact. Thus any comparisons between future atomic reactors and renewable technologies are moot at best. And any "hard number" basis for independent financing for future nukes may not be available for years to come, if ever.
These key points have been raised in searing testimony before state regulators by Jim Warren of the North Carolina Waste and Awareness Reduction Network and Tom Clements of the South Carolina Friends of the Earth, and by others now challenging proposed state-based financing for new Westinghouse AP-1000 reactors. The NRC gave conditional "certification" to this "standardized" design in 2004, allowing design work to continue. But as recently as June 27, the NRC has issued written warnings that hundreds of key design components remain without official approval. Indeed, Westinghouse has been forced to actually withdraw numerous key designs, throwing the entire permitting process into chaos.
The catastrophic outcome of similar problems has already become tangible. After two years under construction, the first "new generation" French reactor being built in Finland is already more than two years behind schedule, and more than $2.5 billion over budget. The scenario is reminiscent of the economic disaster that hit scores of "first generation" reactors, which came in massively over budget and, in many cases, decades behind promised completion dates.
In North and South Carolina, public interest groups are demanding the revocation of some $230 million in pre-construction costs already approved by state regulators for two proposed Duke Energy reactors. In both those states, as well as in Florida, Alabama and Georgia, Westinghouse AP-1000 reactors have been presented to regulatory commissions to be financed by ratepayers as they are being built.
This astounding pro-utility scheme forces electric consumers to pay billions of dollars for nuclear plants that may never operate, and whose costs are indeterminate. Sometimes called Construction Work in Progress, it lets utilities raise rates to pay for site clearing, project planning, and down payments on large equipment and heavy reactor components, such as pressure vessels, pumps and generators, that can involve hundreds of millions of dollars, even before the projects get final federal approval. The process in essence gives utilities an incentive to drive up construction costs as much as they can. It allows them to force ratepayers to cover legal fees incurred by the utilities to defend themselves against lawsuits by those very ratepayers. And the public is stuck with the bill for whatever is spent, even if the reactor never opens---or if it melts down before it recoups its construction costs, as did Pennsylvania's Three Mile Island Unit Two in 1979, which self-destructed after just three months of operation.
According to Warren and Clements, Duke Energy and its cohorts have "filed some 6,500 pages of Westinghouse's technical design documents as the major component of applications" to build new reactors. "Of the 172 interconnected Westinghouse documents," say NCWARN and FOE, "only 21 have been certified." And most of what has been certified, they add, rely on systems that are unapproved, and that are key to the guts of the reactor, including such major components as the "reactor building, control room, cooling system, engineering designs, plant-wide alarm systems, piping and conduit."
In other words, despite millions of dollars of high-priced hype, the "new generation" of "standardized design" power plants actually does not exist. The plans for these reactors have not been finalized by the builders themselves, nor have they been approved by the regulators. There is no operating prototype of a Westinghouse AP-1000 from which to draw actual data about how safely these plants might actually operate, what their environmental impact might be, or what they might cost to build or run.
In fact, as the NRC's June 27 letter notes, Westinghouse has been forced to withdraw key technical documents from the regulatory process. The NRC says this means design approval for the AP-1000 might not come until 2012.
The problem extends to other designs. According to Michael Mariotte of the Nuclear Information & Resource Service, the "Evolutionary Power Reactor" proposed for Calvert Cliffs, Maryland, "is way behind in certification" causing delays in the licensing process. Similar problems have arisen with the "Economic Simplified Boiling War Reactor" design proposed for North Anna, Virginia and Fermi, Michigan. "All of these utilities seem to want standardization for the other guy, not for themselves, so most of them are making changes to the 'standardized' designs, says Mariotte. "Even the ABWR," being planned for a site in south Texas, which has actually been built before, "has design issues" that have caused delays.
The problem, says Mariotte, "is that the NRC is still trying to go ahead and do licensing even with the designs not certified. This is going to lead to a big mess later on."
But in the meantime, Public Service Commissions like the one in Florida, have given preliminary approval to reactor proposals whose projected costs have more than doubled in just one year. Florida Power & Light's two proposed reactors at Turkey Point, on the border of the Everglades National Park, are listed as costing somewhere between $6 billion and $9 billion. FP&L refuses to commit to a firm price, and is demanding south Florida ratepayers foot an unknowable bill for gargantuan projects whose costs are virtually certain to skyrocket long before the NRC approves the actual reactor designs. By contrast, the "huge" preliminary deal just reached between Florida, environmentalists and U.S. Sugar to buy some 180,000 acres of land to save the Everglades is now estimated at less than $2 billion, less than one-sixth the minimum estimated cost of the two reactors proposed for Turkey Point.
In the larger picture, the depth of this scam is staggering. With no finalized design, and no firm price tag, a second generation of nuclear power plants is now being put on the tab of southeastern citizens whose rates have already begun to skyrocket. These reactor projects cannot get private financing, and cannot proceed without either massive federal subsidies and loan guarantees, or a flood of these state-based give-aways. They also cannot get private insurance against future melt-downs, and have no solution for their radioactive waste problem. Current estimates for finishing the proposed Yucca Mountain national waste repository, also yet to be licensed, are soaring toward $100 billion, even though it, too, may never open.
By contrast, firm costs for proposed wind farms, solar panels, increased efficiency and other green sources are proven and reliable. These projects are easily financed by private investors lining up to become involved. Some $6 billion in new wind farms are under construction or on order in the United States alone. They are established and profitable, and can in many cases can be up and running in less than a year.
The high-profile campaign to paint atomic energy as some kind of answer to America's energy problems has hit the iceberg of its economic impossibilities. The atomic "renaissance" has no tangible approved design, and no firm construction or operating costs to present. There are no reliable new reactor construction schedules, except to know that it will be at least ten years before the first one could conceivably come on line, and that its price tag is unknowable.
In short, the "nuclear renaissance" is perched atop a gigantic technical and economic chasm that looms larger every day, and that could soon swallow the entire idea of building more reactors.
Harvey Wasserman's SOLARTOPIA! OUR GREEN-POWERED EARTH, A.D. 2030, is at www.solartopia.org. He is senior advisor to Greenpeace USA and the Nuclear Information & Resource Service, and writes regularly for www.freepress.org, where this article first appeared.
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61 Comments so far
Show AllThank you ~FELIX~. You're right on target in my opinion.
I always believed it was very possible that the aircraft that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9-11, had intended to be crashed into the nuke plant in Pa. They over-flew the site twice before heading south towards DC. They were inexperienced pilots and luckily for us, if their target was the nuclear power plant they missed seeing it.
Kem Patrick and other friends,
You and I have corresponded on these pages before. I very much agree with your outlook on the ultimate safety of nuclear power installations. The kiddofspeed video describing a bike trip through the Chernobyl region is very telling.
Rather than considering Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and hundreds of lesser calamities as isolated "accidents," we would be well advised to understand that occasional such accidents are statistically guaranteed to occur. And some of them will no doubt be more horrendous than any that have occurred to date.
In the nuclear power business, we are constantly battling the operation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This Law holds that in inanimate nature, in any closed system entropy always increases. Another way of saying that is that Nature tends to the ultimately stable condition where things are in chaos or mixed up. Highly organized systems such as a "contained" quantity of highly dangerous materials, are not stable, certainly not for the thousands of years for which such stability is required. A single inhaled microgram of Plutonium will give you lung cancer, and Uranium is likely not much safer. A nuclear reactor deals with these ultra dangerous materials by the ton, and there isn't a person in the world who can say what happened to every last microgram!
A nuclear power plant is an accident waiting to happen. Think "human error," or think a terrorist attack. The people who brought us 9/11 could have caused infinitely more death and damage had they turned their aircraft North to the nearby nuclear plant, rather than to down the World Trade Center. Just bombing the highly radioactive storage cooling pools near the reactors themselves would have made the whole region not only dead but uninhabitlble, like Chernobyl is today if not worse.
Nuclear power? No, thanks.
Felix.
Excuse me ,I am wrong about the (SIC) I didn't see I had spelled 'IT' as 'IS'.
~TOAST~ I see from the archives that you are a new blogger here, at least using the name "Toast" and you obviously are unaware of my opinions about nuclear power, nuclear waste and potential nuclear accidents and how I have endlessly argued against nuclear energy use here at Common Dreams. Let's drop it, before we get into an unnecessary shit fight.
~TOAST~ You only read one part of a sentence and didn't read, or you ignored the rest of the paragraphs. And your insulting cmmments to me were very personal.
What do you mean I don't agree with your viewponts about nuclear energy you idiot, you are purposly being obtuse. I do not favor nuclear energy, never have and have said so and you keep ignornng what I wrote in that respect. Buzzz off.
You also ignore that burning coal has killed and seriously damaged far, far more humans, animal and plant life than nuclear emissions have. And burning coal it is also the driving force of the global warming problem, the most serious issue humanity currently faces. That proven fact does not, as I have said twice previously mean we should replace coal with nuclear.
You have not addressed what I wrote, except for two sentences and you have taken my words out of context once again.
You didn't retain my original spelling, that's why I asked. Learn how to comprehend reading.
KEM PATRICK. You failed to understand that I wasn't attacking you on a personal level... just your position that there is some kind of absolute truth that I should believe that "Nuclear power is a far better alternative than coal, oil, or natural gas."
That is the energy industry talking-point lie. That you believe it isn't at all extraordinary, as many others do as well. Propaganda is very effective. Many shills repeat the same message as a result of delusion or payment... or both. If you are not speaking for the industry, then it may behoove you to look more closely at why you parrot the message.. and I provided a number of reasons for that case. It's telling that you didn't address that point.
I understand that you do not agree with my viewpoint, but not many individuals have dealt directly with industry and government on this issue... and I assume that includes you from your stance.
The danger to environment goes well beyond GHG and are proven beyond the degree of contention that global warming offers. Nuclear is NOT better than *anything*.
Big energy recognizes that their "oil" days are numbered. As a result, they are softening up the opposition to nuclear with the same message that you repeat. Sorry, it doesn't work for me and MANY others. That is just something you may have to recognize as an adjustment to your reality.
Since you asked nicely, sic is an accepted way to indicate that original spelling has been retained when quoting a passage.
Now it's opening.
Funny, that Kidd of speed link about Chernobyl is not available on this thread, but on my first post on the other "nuker" thread here in the headline articles, it opens up just fine. I posted that one a couple of days ago, cause I don't approve of nuclear power plants. ___ I don't aprove of burning coal either. I don't like EITHER ~TOAST~. ____ How about you?
Oops. Forgot the ___ //___ in that link. I also made a few spelling errurs, but this ain't a spelling be. It's readable, even for assuming Dufuses.
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html
It opens now, it's a really neat article, very informative for the undereducated and those ignorant about nucelar power.
Well ~TOAST~ I see you wish to have an unnecessary argument with me for some strange reason, known only to you. Something about me that you don't like? Spit out out and let's hear what your problem with me is.
I'll reply to you, since you have made several false 'ASSUMPTIONS' about me and then posted some unfounded lying comments about me and my stands on the issue of nuclear power, by "cherry picking" PORTIONS of two comments I wrote here. And what is the ___ "is (sic)___ all about?
For starters, in my posts here on this thread, and many many others I may add, I have stated that nuclear waste is one of humanity's most serious issues and I favor clean renuable energy and we should phase out coal, oil and nuclear power plants.
I also have the opinion, based upon statistical scientific evidence, that burning coal has been a far more serious health issue and problem so far for humanity, than nuclear energy has been.
I also stated here that burning coal was NO REASON to promote nuclear energy. I am fully against nuclear energy and have been before the first nuclear power plant was ever opened. YOUR FALSE assumption that I'm unfamiliar with the subject is just that ~TOAST~, ___ a FALSE ASSUMPTION.
I wrote here that "we should put our money into clean renuable energy and forget about nuclear and coal." But YOU ignored that comment and say that I'm defending nuclear. Can't you understand what's written? Never mind, obvioulsy you have a serious problem there. You either have a reading comprehension disability, or you are favoring the use of coal. ____ Which is it?
I have posted near 300 comments here at Common Dreams during the past 12 months, arguing against nuclear power, as Billy __y4 and many others here can attest. I've posted another 500+ about the dangers of nuclear waste, specifically the use of DU.
You are wrong about a nuke site anywhere near my backyard BTW, and there is no place on this planet that is safe from nuclear power plant emissions, DU contamination, or burning coal emissiions. You got that now ~TOAST~? Read tht several times and then give yourself a reading comp test to see if you can pass it.
Now about global warming, caused from pollution of our atmosphere, mostly by far from burning coal. You ~Toast~ say greenhouse gas emissions are just one of our problems? Well that's correct, it's one problem, but it's the MOST serious one and obviously it is you who is ignorant.
Here are two links I frequently post here. I won't ask you to bother reading them, for you likely wouldn't understnd what the authors wrote. But here they are "assumer" Toast.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080423_methane.html
http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html
And here is my favorit one which concerns nuclear power.
http:www.kiddofspeed.com/chapter1.html
That last link is not always available. It tells the horrors of Chernobyl with hundreds of photos of the area.
Now I've replied to you and it probably would be much better if we let it go at that. That's your call. You have your opinions, I have mine and insults are not doing anyone any good. Fair and sensible debate is fine.
Your insults to me, based upon assumptions, your obvious reading disability and "cherry picking" my posts are not fine, and I don't like you and I never will. __ Ya got it ~TOAST? ___ Read it again. ___ No need to apologize either, you are nothing to me.
Hi Siouxrose July 28th, 2008 11:34 am
"DOUGLAS JACK: Thank you for the interesting post."
I suggest we lay our planetary bets and personal efforts on rediscovering indigenous First Nation 3-D Orchard Life based solar technologies. The other side of this bet is rediscovering indigenous Economic Democracy based on time-based accounting, progressive ownership and multi-stakeholder governance as was found in the Production Societies, the Longhouse and Pueblo communities. Industrial based solar, wind etc have tertiary roles when people have rediscovered how to work and live together. Human kind has an important but not exclusive role on this planet.
KEM PATRICK wrote in part: "Is (sic) is an absolute fact, that burning coal is much more deadly for the enviroment (sic) and for all life than nuclear power is, that is not a lie."
You couch your argument within the same framework as industry shills. So you are either parroting, or you are deluded. I have no doubt that you believe that nonsense... but you are incorrect. The dangers to our planet are manifold. Greenhouse gas emissions are but one of them.
You can not defend nuclear as an argument to ending excess carbon emissions however... unless you know nothing of the subject. Nuclear is NOT better than any other form of production, because of the irresponsibility of those who control the industry... and the US government. If you believe otherwise, you believe a lie.
I suspect that you do have a nuclear wastesite in your backyard, nor have you been active in demanding industry and government accept responsibility for the criminal negligence on their part, in the total disregard for safe containment of their waste.
It is the most insidious form of energy production available... and in the hands of bottom-line corporatists, is always a grave danger to Americans. Radioactivity respects no boundaries. Safe waste containment and storage is a joke. Cooling systems and missing plutonium go hand in hand. Transportation of materials and waste represent one of the highest dangers to national security and public safety known. The mining of uranium leaves vast areas uninhabitable. The entire industry is a travesty that continues to be propagandized by greedy corporatists.
The big lie on the part of both camps is that increased power production from additional nuclear sites will help avert the climate crisis. The little lie is that nuclear production will have any positive effect on our energy dependence. Wall Street knows it. The insurance industry knows it. Why don't you?
Nuclear power generation can not be made safe unless every step of the process from mining, enrichment, construction, operation, environmental protection, inspection, facilities protection, materials accounting, transportation and waste disposal is taken completely out of corporate hands. The bottom line is that nuclear jeopardizes us all.
Radioactive contamination respects no boundaries. Once released into the ecosystem, it remains there, some of it for billions of years, some of the more active decay cycles render all in proximity to extreme health danger. That cooling requires billions and billions of gallons of precious water resources is not even discussed.
Before giving ANY consideration for additional construction, existing waste sites should be cleaned and decontaminated. I have been helping to fight for the cleanup-up of one site for decades... with little to show for the effort. The government's refusal to accept responsibility for nuclear waste is beyond criminal.... it is evil.
Meanwhile, radioactive waste that was knowingly treated as a low priority issue has either been dumped into trenches or has leaked from poorly designed holding tanks. The contamination has hit the water table and is flowing to the Columbia River.
Funding for cleanup has been vetoed, delayed, mismanaged, diverted and used for more dumping and weapons systems.. Although conservation is nowhere to be found in your stamp of approval for nuclear, investing in power conservation will provide over 10 times (1000 percent) return on the investment dollar than nuclear. Investments in alternative energy production need ALL our focus... and nuclear does not fit into that classification by any means.
Nuclear is just another big energy lie... it is THE biggest lie. It is NOT clean by any measure and we should not fall into the trap of believing that, just because their spokespinners suggest that it is.
NO on nuclear.
Judging from my bill, all the power company and Aanalld's hype about homeowner incentives and 1 million mandatory new construction with solar,there is no improvement in the power mix toward renewable, sensible power. But there was no hesitation in increasing the "nuklar" segment. Solar for a house is still prohibitively expensive. The return rate is too long, when "most" people move every seven years or so. $25+ thousand for 3kwh array, minus about $8grand for incentives, still leaves $17+ grand for homeowners to dig up, from pressured banks, as their own property value tanks.
If someone were to ask me if it's all manipulated by the real power players in this country, I would answer a resounding, "Yes." When the "Federal Reserve," a privately owned bank, starts calling in it's notes from all the banks in this country, as it just did, it causes problems for the vast majority of us, even if we have no problem paying our mortgage. This reduces the supply of money and credit. Even as the Fed reduces it's rates. The Fed always wins and the very few people who own it continue to make a profit even as 400,000 homes are in foreclosure.
Sweet, ugh?
Heaven is probably about the best alternative if it's help we are seeking.
Personaly, I'd prefer a Ford pickup.
Sorry, I'm obviously a little slow here but:
Billy y4 - did you indicate that the A1000 design was APPROVED on the basis of a COMPUTER model?
- 3D models are built to TRY and catch ,,,, problems before you make the hardware, but they WILL happen?
- You try to catch as many of them AS YOU CAN?
- You fix them AS YOU FIND THEM?
- The delays in Finland had to do with QUALITY CONTROL?
-The concrete vendor chosen was sloppy?
I'm a little confused here. I initially thought you were an advocate for nukes, but just about everything I've seen you post is a better argument AGAINST them than those written by their obvious foes. I think your use of a Chevy pickup as an analogy was revealing. A nuke plant is not in the same species, let alone genus, as a pickup. If we are designing and building these with the same mind-set as we are trucks, heaven help us!
DOUGLAS JACK: Thank you for the interesting post.
At a nuclear facility in Tennessee, there are automatic alarms in the buildings which sound off quite frequently whenever a radiation leak is detected.
To __me__ that is rather frightening. You see, there are flocks of geese that live near the facilty and if someone accidently steps on some goose poop, which is fairly abundent, when they enter a building that radioactive poop sets off an alarm. ___ Shit!
Evidently geese and deer etc, are able to survive more atomic radiation within their bodies for a couple of years than humans can without becoming horribly sick with radiation poisoning. Oh, and do not even think of eating any fish taken from the waters in Tennessee, ____or down stream to the Atlantic from Tennessee.
Germany had a choice in 2005 build a nuclear power plant or convince
enough citizens in one region to place solar on their rooftops.
Result: so many signed up and gen'd enough electricity the POWER PLANT WAS NOT BUILT in 2005.
Again Germany had a choice in 2007 build a nuclear power plant or convince
enough citizens in another region to place solar on their rooftops.
Result: so many signed up and gen'd enough electricity the POWER PLANT WAS NOT BUILT in 2007!
hello….
SOLAR ENERGY ON EARTH (How life works, 101)
Before we alter our planetary life systems, let's understand them. The following description should give basic tools for anyone considering various energy systems.
Thanks Harvey for this article and to the enlightened analysis of Kem Patrick & Galen in particular. Energy is only meant to serve life.
On planet earth, the food tree growing nuts, fruit, greens, fibres (fabric, clothing, building materials etc.) supporting many layers of vines (grapes), food bushes of all sorts, berries, herbs, mushrooms, grains, beans, wetland foods, diverse birds, animals, insects and life in all of its abundance is by far the most efficient solar engine ever developed. The multi-level orchard forest is capable of absorbing 92 - 98% of solar energy falling on most temperate and tropical lands.
The diversity of life in earths three-dimensional solar harvesting life system is thousands of times more abundant than two-dimensional human created agriculture (chopped down orchards replaced with understory crops alone). The orchard tree sends its roots down as deeply as the canopy pumping water, mining minerals and creating nutrient colonies tens and hundreds of feet into the substrate. 2-D agriculture only sends roots down inches or short feet. 2-D agriculture only harvests 2 - 8 % of solar energy.
When continental orchards as planted or nurtured by traditional 'indigenous' peoples (derived from the Latin meaning 'self-generating') absorb huge solar harvests, warm-moist winds from oceans are drawn to these cold spots. Condensation on leaf and bark surfaces account for 60% of ocean to land water transfer. Rain only accounts for 40%. Agricultural areas reflect over 90% of solar energy, thus producing hot spots active in energy that drive winds from the continent to the sea. These continental winds are a terminal stage of desertification. The deserts of the world by most food expert estimates are produced through agriculture. Agro-forestry is the key to earth sustainability.
Orchards will produce 100 times the foods, water governance, fibres, oxygenated air, toxin storage and other ecological services than will agriculture. Populations and industry based on such abundant solar harvesting will naturally be self-sufficient. When the empires of Babylon, Egypt, Phoenicia, Greece, Rome and Carthage and subsequently the crushed Celtic peoples of Europe cut down the orchard trees of their original indigenous inhabitants, they did so deliberately to control populations and territories through agricultural scarcity. In every subsequent jurisdiction conquered including the Americas, the massively productive orchard trees have been cut down. Today we do not even know about earth's 3-D design.
Most energy consumed today by Canadian and American energy gluttons has little to do with any kind of human benefit. As the end of a long line of conquered humans, we are constantly replaying the subconscious and endless theatre of our defeat, in obsession over the latest superficial and destructive toys, of war, of war toys and of media fixation over international tensions. The way out of endless obsession, is learning and caring for the earth as a living system. The daily harvest of sun on earth by indigenous orchards can be equal to millions of nuclear reactors functioning simultaneously, unsustainably and impossibly.
Across Europe and much of North America, the oak tree was the primary 3-D source of food (acorns produce delicious products of many kinds) as well as the backbone of water, air, soil and most life systems. Its time to get planting.
~TOAST~ I see that you posted HALF of the paragraph I posted. Wish you had posted all of it, so what I wrote is not taken out of context.
The other half is: "And Solar, wind, geo-thermal, tidal and wave combined are far far better than nuclear or fossil fuels."
Is is an absolute fact, that burning coal is much more deadly for the enviroment and for all life than nuclear power is, that is not a lie. But that fact should not be used to promote nuclear energy.
However, we should forget nuclear entirely and put the money we put into nuclear into clean renuable energy alternatives, because nuclear is deadly also and nuclear waste is perhaps the most serious problem there.
Also, someday there will be another Chernobyl with one of the "better designed" nuclear plants. It is just a matter of time before it happens someplace on Earth for any of several reasons and human error tops the list of reasons in my opinion.
I say, NO Nuclear. We can't even handle the nuclear waste we already have! What are we going to do with more. In Washington state Hanford is the largest superfund site in the country, and we haven't even dealt with that after all these years, what's going to happen when we're faced with other disasters, including the 3-mile island fiasco where the reactor melted down before the public could recoup the costs to build it in the first place, and again....contamination!
I'm for wind and solar. Moreoever, I think our state and federal governments should help subsidize individual home/building owners with the means to install wind and solar. In other words, take the vast amount of burden OFF individual energy companies, and shift a vast amount of the energy generation on individuals. The advantages to the individual home or buiding owner means you & I will NOT be marginally dependent if at all on power generation plants producing electricity. In fact, you and I will have the capability of selling energy Back to the Power Plants. We should be building all new construction with wind and/or solar. There are by the way, small sized wind turbines for residential, singular homes sites.
"Nuclear power is a far better alternative than coal, oil, or natural gas."
This is how the nuclear propaganda is couched. Recognize it for what it is. Nuclear is THE big lie.
Keep fighting Harvey.
Billy y4, Thank you for that refresher. Graphite, not ceramic, for the fuel balls. Graphite moderated, yet gas cooled as opposed to water. Since graphite is essentially a naturally occurring element that is in itself, by reason of it's propensity in all organic life, rather non-toxic and very useful to commercial products, it would appear that there is also a relation to what gas is being used and perhaps a shielding agent on the "pebbles." And you say there is only one? I was under a false impression on that number. But I really am curious as to why the Chinese would not pursue this as opposed to the, apparently, American corporate model.
Still, Is this design related to the Westinghouse 1000? I'm sorry for this persistence. I can always persue this somewhere else.
Thanks anyway.
But hey did anybody notice what I wrote previously. The shifting of % of generational sources and in a big way to nuclear in So.Cal. And no mention in the printed press or any media as far as I have been able to determine. Sure coal is really crummy. But why take away so much from large hydroelectric? No, do not tell me it's about water supplies. All I have to do is watch during rain storms how much water is just allowed to run into the ocean via gutters, flood control channels and not one holding construct. Yet the water companies complain about the low level of underground reservoirs. I see it. Manipulate supply for profit.
I think America has been pretty much milked of it's commercial resources. I guess the given name to citizens will change from "consumers" to something even more condescending, like "deadbeats."
:)
Billy_y4 - Portable nuclear reactors. Great. Just what we need.
Just add that to the rapidly growing list of environmental threats in Northern Canada. It's not bad enough that the permafrost is melting, threatening to release a methane mega-fart, or that the entire northern food chain from ducks to polar bears and people is under threat, or that the water around Ft. MacMurray is a toxic and carcinogenic witches brew.
No, now we want to have rolling Three Mile Island machines.
I wonder who will have the dubious pleasure of guarding these monstrosities?
And as to the whole concept of portable nuclear reactors, (and in answer to Merek about using nuclear power as transport), didn't the US Air Force try to have a nuclear powered bomber? Using a reactor that sat right behind the cockpit? As I recall, the pilots had to be protected with TONS of lead shielding, they never could get the damned thing to work right, and the entire plan was scuttled because no-one wanted a nuclear bomb flying over their heads.
So if we are stupid enough to actually have even one of these infernal devices, the local gendarmerie had better be VERY willing to lay down their lives to stop this thing from being stolen. Not that they will.
Even a moments idle contemplation of what a person with evil intent could commit with one of these things is enough to make me cringe. Hell, even a simple road collision would be cause for serious alarm.
I seriously hope the people of Alberta, Canada would strenuously, even violently object to this plan.
Dogleg,
You are correct that the nuclear power in the US is derivative from the naval propulsion program. All but one of the current and past US navy reactors were/are pressurized water reactors (PWR). (There was one submarine that used sodium cooling but did not perform satisfactorily.)
The first commercial reactor in the US was at Shippingsport PA. It was a PWR built by Westinghouse and sponsored by Admiral Rickover's office of nuclear power in the Atomic Energy Commission.
Of the over 100 power reactors in the US today about 2/3 are PWRs and are derivative from Shippingsport from various manufacturers. About 1/3 are boiling water reactors (BWR) and these were all built by General Electric.
China currently has 11 operating power reactors. 9 of these are PWRs and 2 are of a Canadian design. China also has under construction or close to construction start an additional 21 power reactors. All but one of these are PWRs.
The one Chinese exception is a high temperature graphite moderated gas cooled design. It uses billiard ball size fuel balls. The South Africans are designing and intend to build a similar style reactor. The South Africans has started negotiations with the NRC to obtain a liscense to build their design in the US as well as domestically.
The AP1000 which was the orignial subject of this string is a Westinghouse design. Westinghouse is also deeply involved, both technically and financially, in the South African pebble bed reactor.
PWRs and BWRs are not suitable for making hydrogen. They do not operate at a high enough temperature. The high temperature graphite pebble bed reactors are supposed to be able to 'crack' water to make hydrogen.
Bill
Billy4,
I will acknowledge that I am not a nuclear physicist. However, I remember reading an article that compared U.S. nuclear power and that of the Chinese. I believe it concerned inherent safety and the control of waste in the design. This was a Scientific American article I read on-line about this time last summer.
The research showed great superiority of the Chinese design. The article established that the design of U.S. nuclear power plants stemmed from the navy's invested design for nuclear power for submarines. The VIP names I do not recall, yet the common American capitalist scheme was illustrated and historically documented concerning the transition from sub to domestic power.
As a side note, I briefly worked for the G.E. plant in San Jose that was committed to the design and fabrication of electrical panels that controlled G.E. built nuclear plants that is why the article had my attention.
It seems the Chinese have equivalent numbers of nuclear plants or nuclear generated kilowatts. But zero problems. It seems it had to do with not using control rods as we do, but specially ceramic coated orbs, balls, the size of pool balls.
Are you familiar with this? If so, is there any relationship with this Westinghouse design?
I received my SCE, So Cal Elect, monthly bill. It is a new improved bill. My bill has six pages. On the back of page six there is a new box labeled "Power Content Label". Look:
2007 CA Power Mix: Energy Resources:
Eligible Renewable;Biomass and waste<1%, Geothermal 2%,Small Hydroelectric 6%, Solar <1%, Wind 2%.
Coal 32%
Large Hydroelectric 24%
Natural Gas 31%
Nuclear 3%
Other 0%
Then
2008 (projected)
Eligible Renewable;Biomass and waste 2%, Geothermal 9%,Small Hydroelectric 1%, Solar 1%, Wind 3%.
Coal 8%
Large Hydroelectric 5%
Natural Gas 50%
Nuclear 21%
Other <1%.
This perplexing when you know that large hydroelectric were mostly paid for by taxpayers as was/is nuclear, at the bottom line anyway. Yet natural gas, under the control of oil companies, and corresponding commodities markets and speculators, had the single largest increase. And SCE was kind enough to ask for a rate increase via an insert with the same bill. Actually, only about .oo8%. Multiply that times, given a population of 34 million people, and every single structure with electricity. For this purpose let's say 8 million residences, and 25 million structures related to schools, hospitals, gas stations, all the stores in every mall, in essence every business in California. So we are up to 33 million electricity users equals $264,000 per WATThour. The average house uses about 830 Kilowatt hours per month. Now that is 830,000 watts for however many hours a house used electricity, 720 hrs. divided into 830,000 equals 1152 watts per hour, then times 8 million residences...
This is why if taxpayer money goes into ANY fuel resource development that these corporations are given, and they are given, requires new ways of looking at how the people of this country can control corporations, legally, but also demand a dividend as any other entity?
My June bill was over $400.00. My July bill was $77.00. I increased my thermostat from 78 degrees to at least 82 degrees as soon as I found out about that June bill. I started waiting for this solar thermometer to indicate to me my maximum for comfort level. I am disabled and it can vary. Most of the time that was about 82 degrees and sometimes 84. At any rate, a 5 degree difference saved me well over $300.00 and my forced air/heating unit is only 10 months old. The house is very well insulated. It will rarely rise above 84 degrees, by my solar thermometer that is 8 feet from a patio door that faces north.
If a power company tells you to set your thermostat at 78 degrees for summer air conditioning to save money and reduce greenhouse emissions, you now know they are lying to you.
Beyond the interesting "Power Content Label."
Galen,
I will grant we are past Peak Oil. The Fischer-Tropsch process and its knockoffs, if used with carbon sequestration, can provide a supply of liquid fuels. The cost, including the feed coal at its current price, would be approximately $100-120/barrel. Fischer-Tropsch is not a new process. It was the major source of liquid fuel for Germany during WW2.
The Canadians are envisioning mobile nuclear reactors to provide heat and electricity for mining and processing of tar sands. The reactors used would be much smaller than something like the AP1000. (They currently are using natural gas for exploitation of tar sands.)
Bill
Excellent comments ~GALEN~ and ~MEREK~ actually` wrote that Nuclear waste is NOT A PROBLEM??? ___ LOL.
Google nuclear accidents. We have not been able to SAFELY store nuclear waste for 60 years. How on earth does anyone possibly believe that we can safely store it for a hundred, a thousand, or a million years. ___ Ha ha ha. That is the worst element of nuclear energy.
Yucca mountain BTW, is right near an earthquake fault line and not far from several others and it's situated over a valuable deep water aquifer.
Merek - I beg to argue on a handful of points.
1) You say it doesn't matter what the fuel cells are made of. You say that electrical or capacitor vehicles will take over all the work load. Fine. How do you extract the raw materials to build them. More electrical powered machines? Okay. That would mean building power plants near the sites of the raw material extraction. That power would not go to the greater grid. And you would have to move the electrical generating plant as each resource played out.
2) You say we can 'synthesize' what ever we need, even from raw materials if necessary. Two arguments. a) How are you extracting the raw materials? (see point one above) b) other than fictional Star Trek (tm) style 'synthesizers', what is the device that will transform the raw materials from what they are to what you want?
3) You say nuclear waste is not a problem, and all you need is several 'Yucca Mountain' style facilities, where I presume you will bury the waste and ignore it. Answer me this: Would you want to live next door to, or on top of, a nuclear waste facility? Or drink water that has been contaminated by nuclear waste? Do you think the people who evacuated Three Mile Island and Chernobyl were over-reacting, if as you say, nuclear waste is nothing to worry about? And please tell Erin Brokovich she is full of crap while you are at it.
You also say we have 'only a century of nuclear waste to worry about'. Do you have any idea of the radioactive half-life of uranium? By your thinking, we should start moving back into the Chernobyl region tomorrow.
4) Will you accept that uranium ore itself, the fuel for nuclear reactors, is a finite and therefore non-renewable resource?
5) The scientists have been poking away for at least 40 years trying to get even a hot fusion reaction going. So far nothing. Is there some breakthrough only you are aware of?
6) How do you plan to turn nuclear energy into fertilizers? Or asphalt? Aspirin? Here's an easy one: petroleum based fabrics that are made into clothing? How about the majority of pharmaceuticals that are made from oil?
I apologize if I sound harsh, but you are coming across as just another pie-in-the-sky techno-fetishist who expects that some great gadget will solve all our problems. Other than a multitude of minor refinements to existing technologies, nothing has substantially changed since the 1950's. We still drive gas powered cars, the computers are smaller and faster, but they are still dumb but fast adding machines, and we have neat microwave radio based personal communicators. But the basic science behind all of these is unchanged.
So SiouxRose, it still isn't completely clear about approval status. Design changes? Site problems? Change in policy at NRC from the assumption the next administration will start enforcing laws and regulations again?
Which part of the state? Progress Energy on the Gulf Coast is a lot farther along than FP&L down near Miami. Obstructing reactor construction with petitions and legal manuevers will probably only slow things dowm, while China has broken ground on at least one of the very same reactor.
Delaying things as much as possible would be good as no one has actually completed and started up an AP-1000. China might have the first one up and running in time for any lessons learned to be applied in Florida.
Secondly, if Progress hasn't yet ordered the reactor vessels, Japan Steel is still the only mill in the world (except maybe in Russia) with a big enough mold to cast one piece reactor vessel forgings, and quite a queue is forming with hundreds of reactors in the works. That is going to change soon, but right now they only cast about 8 vessels per year.
Florida is growing fast. If this plant in your back yard is inevitable, remember the AP1000 is a new generation safer reactor. Its probably the safest design ever licensed. It will be "standardized" to control costs, with many parts and systems identical to those proven elsewhere. And when you run your A/C, make hot water or plug in your new plug-in hybrid...your GHG emissions will be a fraction of what they would be from fossil energy.
Learn all you can about possible emissions and leaks, and how they will be monitored and reported.
Galen, I do not know what the fuel cells will look like in ten years, which is when the nuclear reactors will start coming online. And it doesn't really matter whether fuel cells will work, because there are other non-carbon alternatives. Electrical vehicles powered by batteries or ultra-capacitors work today; if they are widely deployed, we will need a huge boost in our electrical generation capacity. This why we need nuclear reactors.
As for the tires, don't be silly. With enough electrical power, we can synthesize them -- from the raw elements if necessary.
Oil used for mining uranium ore: that is a trivial amount of oil compared to the energy we get from uranium. And there's no reason our mining machines won't be able run on electricity.
I agree that fission is only a stopgap: it will be replaced in a century or so by better sources of energy, such as fusion. Which is why the current hysteria about nuclear waste disposal is unjustified: we will have only a century or so of waste to deal with; a few Yucca Mountain repositories would be more than enough for the whole U.S.
Merek - And you are building the fuel cells out of ... what? And the hypothetical 'hydrogen' vehicles will be rolling down the road on tires made of... what? And the road will be made of... what?
Nuclear power is a stop gap measure at best. Right until the oil used to fuel the machines that extract the uranium ore runs out.
Didn't think about that did ya?
I wold trust this 'approved' and 'only exists on a computer' AP 1000 about as much as I trust Three Mile Island (which was only online for three months before it went blooey!) and Chernobyl.
OK, I see my complaint appeared, but my substantive posting did not. I will try again.
Billy_y4 wrote: "Almost all the commercial nuclear power in the US is and, for the near future, will be used for electrical power generation. In this role nuclear power is a threat to coal but not to oil. Very little oil is used for power generation in the US."
That is true -- for now. However, if we are building nuclear reactors, we are by definition planning for the future, since a reactor can take up to ten years to bring online (three years to build after seven years of red tape).
Ten years from now, if we are foresighted enough to start right away, a large percentage of our transportation fleet could be electrical or fuel celled. (And the fuel for the cells can be generated by electrolysis.)
So nuclear reactors can make a huge difference, not only to the cost of transportation but also to the environment.
would someone tell Obama? He seems to be out of the loop on this one.
I just posted a reply to Billy_y4. Why the hell is Common Dreams dropping my messages? This is not the first time either.
When the poor are sweltering or freezing the Republicans are doing something about it - killing the poor!
"WASHINGTON (AP) - Republicans on Saturday blocked the Senate from considering a bill next week that would nearly double federal aid to help the poor pay heating and air-conditioning bills."
H2O/Kem,
As rtdrury correctly points out, the AP1000 has not yet been built. Any time a design exists only on a computer, there will be glitches that occur during the 1st unit. (The first AP1000 unit will probably be built in China, not the US)
A nuclear reactor is an extrodinarily complex set of pipes, wires, pumps and motors. 3D models are built to try and catch the alignment and interference problems but they will happen. You try to catch as many of them before you make the real hardware as you can. As you find them, you modify the design. (Do you remember the Chevy pickup that had to have the engine pulled to get to the rearmost sparkplug? This was a particularly egregious engineering layout screwup.)
Reference was made in another string to the delays of the EPR reactor in Finland. Those delays have almost all had to do with quality control issues, not the design. Some major castings were received with defects and had to be remade. The concete vendor was not used to working to nuclear grade reqirements and was sloppy on some of his mixing. As a result some of the concrete had to be removed and redone. The bad news is the project is delayed and costs go up. The good news is the Finns are doing it right.
Grandma,
Nuclear power is not a particular threat to oil. Politicians who say that we can achieve 'energy independence' with nuclear are blowing smoke. Almost all the commercial nuclear power in the US is and, for the near future, will be used for electrical power generation. In this role nuclear power is a threat to coal but not to oil. Very little oil is used for power generation in the US.
Bill
Why don't we just import the French reactors then? They definitely work: France gets more than 80% of its electricity from nuclear power.
Sorry for the near double post, guess the first one got lost in the plumbing for awhile.
The Westinghouse AP-1000 nuke plant is "vaporware".
Call me paranoid, but this could be a neat way to scare us all into dropping nuclear and sticking with oil. IMO, nuclear is not the way to go anyway, but more and more good people have been talking about it recently and this may scare the oil folks. Maybe they decided it was time for people to forget about alternatives (including nuclear) and "Come home to OIL!" Great slogan, no?
Well ~H2O~, no one seems to know where 'several' TONS ended up. I would seriously doubt that 10 pounds was recovered from any plumbing. The NRC admitted it was presumibly 'lost' in the industrial process. ___LOST? It isn't lost, they just don't know where it is.
The good thing is, after several million years it will be safe to handle with bare hands. We must learn to accept the good with the bad. We all should know that example is just one example, there are many horror stories which concern nuclear waste, and very likely many more we never will hear about.
Me too BILL, and I don't trust the French or us with the deadly waste either, or any other country for that matter. Tons was "lost and unaccounted for" the NRC admitted. ___ LOST? ___ It's not lost, it's someplace. Nobody seems to know where it was "lost" however. I doubt they found a great deal of the "lost" tons stuck in plumbing lines.
That's just one example of the dealdy game of playing with nuclear power. We both know there are many horror stories and many others are very likely never disclosed.
Billy y4
"The design of the AP1000 has been approved. Since that approval, Westinghouse has modified (and presumably improved) the design."
Question: if the design of the AP1000 was approved, why did Westinghouse modify it? If it was "presumably improved", can we "presume" that it was because it needed to be improved? And if it did not need to be improved, then why tinker with it? Isn't it still true that, generally speaking, if it ain't broke, don't fix it?
Something doesn't smell quite right here - please enlighten.
Also, fascinating that plutonium winds up in plumbing and distribution lines. Where else does it wind up?
Kem,
During the demolition of several of the Rocky Flats buildings some (not all, but some) of the 'missing' plutonium materialized in plumbing and distribution lines.
The same thing happened when they demolished the old uranium diffusion plant at Oak Ridge.
I am more concerned with the lax security and accounting in the former Soviet Union on their inventory of HEU and plutonium than with the US.
Bill
It is rather unusual for the NRC to say much or reveal much of anything derogatory about nuclear power plants, so I'm a bit surprised at this report but glad to read it. Any lengthy delays may allow other ACTUALLY clean energy alternatives to get both feets in the door. ______ Or is it feats?
In the 1970s, the NRC finally grudgenly admitted to Congress, that several "tons" of plutonium was "missing" and unaccounted for, they "assumed" it had been lost in the industrial process. ___ ASSUMED? A rather frightening assumption.
Any plutonium 'missing' is more than a simple error in my estimation. But then I'm not a nuclear scientist or a member of any international safety organization, so perhaps it's not really such a big deal as I "assume" it is.
I do wonder how much other nucler by-products are MISSING over th epast 50 some years and how much more may end up missing with another 25 or so new nuclear power plant in operation?
Nuclear power is a far better alternative than coal, oil, or natural gas. Solar, wind, geo-thermal, tidal and wave combined, are far far better than either nuclear or fossil fuels.
Galen,
In a regulated market, if a utility installs new capacity or other infrastructure, the utility normally adds the capital expenditure to the rate basis as it is expended. It doesn't matter whether it is a nuclear power station, a wind mill or a power line, that is the normal regulatory structure. Florida and the Carolinas are all regulated markets.
In an unregulated market, the utility does not have a revenue source until it is delivering electricity. The rates are also not controlled and the profit potential is much higher. That is why Texas is lined up to get more of the new build reactors than any other state. Texas' electricity is fairly expensive because much of it comes from natural gas. If you generate electricity for less than the cost of natural gas you can make a good profit. (That is one reason why Pickens is building his wind farm in Texas.)
Bill
The design of the AP1000 has been approved. Since that approval, Westinghouse has modified (and presumably improved) the design.
The approval was based on a generic installation and required assumptions. After a specific site is selected for installation, some of the assumptions may be invalid (such as the subsoil strength and permeability) and require modifications to the basic design. Other items in the design approval are merely contingent on site specfic information and are being addressed in the operating liscense application.
This link will take you to the NRC description of the modification of the design review and schedule of the AP1000: http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-licensing/design-cert/amended-ap1000.html
The process is not broke. Wasserman is merely stirring the pot.
Bill
They have approval on a design that is as yet uncompleted, and the majority of the paperwork has been rejected, and no ground has actually been broken, but the company is still collecting millions of dollars in Government subsidized profits.
Is that right?
Shit, where do I sign up to fleece the public?
i disagree with the basic thrust of this piece, but am glad to see the author framing his argument in quantifiables. and i hope that everyone taking part in this debate will get the facts on breeder technology.
SiouxRose:
You better do a little more research. The AP-1000 design IS approved, but it ISN'T approved. I don't get it. A "Friends of the Earth" post agrees with this one, but most cite "final approval" as a fact. Maybe its approval of design changes since 2005?
That thing better work right, or there will be a lot of disappointed people:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/07/china-wants-100-westinghouse-ap1000.html
BBR-001: The meeting is coming up this week, but I'm glad for this article as it arms me with some up-to-date data. What a nemesis! Look at the blatant irony! THIS--Florida--IS the sunshine state, yet the pro-oil/nuclear/war maniacs insist on the least safe, most expensive technology all to grease the palms and fill the pockets of their amoral cronies.
We've had powerful discussions in this forum on the extent of global corporate capitalism without conscience (I just ordered The Shock Doctrine, although I feel I've been apprised of its contents via comments made on this site) and how far it will trash a community/nation/ecosystem for temporal profits. I do applaud the efforts of those citizens, organizations and attorneys who are doing what they can to fight this out of control BEAST. Mother nature is certainly fighting back, too... unfortunately the vast majority are taught by logic not to connect the metaphysical dots, and therefore the SIGN language goes unheeded. What's a seer to do?
Oooh, Harvey, this is going to put a dent in so many people's plans -- most notably Al Gore, who's plan for "carbon-free" electricity will require more than twenty new nuclear power reactors to be built in the next ten years, and for Obama, who took $150k from Excelon and asserts that nuclear belongs in the mix. Also upset will be Bill Richardson, who is seeking a position in the Obama administration so that he can follow up his work privatizing USEC and selling off the public nuke-fuel stockpile to his bro's, and Bill Gates, who has partnered with the nuke utility PNM on a new save-the-world endeavor called, eerily, "EnergyCo". I wish it wasn't so. I posted a couple of related articles on my site at www.localenergynews.org
Thanks for your very hopeful article! - Mark Sardella
The cancer of corruption has grown beyond even the corrupts ability to contain.
This nuke plan is probably part of the new Energy Policy hammered out in early 2001 by Dick Cheney and his secret task force. The policy that led to the Energy Act of 2005 that alloted kazillions and billions to oil, coal, gas and nuclear and pennies to renewables.
Nukes are now, of course, being pushed by John McCain, who wants 45 new nuclear plants built but who probably has zero knowledge of what Mr. Wasserman reveals above.
Great article Harvey. I wonder how long it will take Bush to replace the whole NRC with nuclear industry swindlers?
"But as recently as June 27, the NRC has issued written warnings that hundreds of key design components remain without official approval. Indeed, Westinghouse has been forced to actually withdraw numerous key designs, throwing the entire permitting process into chaos."
Maybe they can palm them off on Iran -- like they've done-before (under that 1953-Puppet, before the 1979-Puppets)?
Hey SiouxRose: How did the FPL nuke meeting go?
Hey SiouxRose: How did the FPL nuke meeting go?
Hey SiouxRose: How did the FPL nuke meeting go?