I see this happening worldwide with wind and tidal energy in the mix. One more thing, my state reps our backing more nuke power to be built, fine, as long as the state/s that are allowing these plants to be built stores the waste in state and NOT ship it elsewhere. If you build it, you deal with it!

http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1901/
If you're in the mood....
Here's a link to a sarcastic, tongue in cheek youtube video about Cheap, Clean, coal

Beautiful. I wonder if enough of those could also help reduce global warming by providing shade. But finding fresh water to boil in a desert could be a problem, unless they can bring in and use seawater.

Why not just use PV cells?

Sorry - I got sidetracked by my imagination there. I was going to say how great it was yesterday to see a very concise, informative ad on the telly with the big oil guy talking about his plan to get into solar energy (don't know if he's going for wind energy as well.) Thought it was a very effective way to get people's minds off the ads the government is putting out about getting the dems in congress to ok drilling everywhere.

Build them all around the world, and one day in the far far future, humans, or whatever kind of beings live on the earth then see them and as we've done with the various ancient ruins and mysterious artifacts discovered around the world, will try to imagine what sort of beings created them - because obviously the humans living at that time in history (us) was far too primative to have done so.

It'll have to be guarded against terrorist attack, though---wonder how much security will cost?

Two things.

1. African sunlight is in Africa. What will Europe pay to take it? What will Africa get in the way of power and money?

2. That sand goes around the world to give the Amazon forest the fertilizer it needs to grow. What steps are being taken to understand the important of the sand itself? What if the mirrors and equipment change the distribution of sand?

"It'll have to be guarded against terrorist attack, though—wonder how much security will cost?"

Sure, I mean, these terrorists are everywhere down there! Destroying things every day. Irational beasts! Hell-bent on random destruction of even their own countries' economic resources!

"That sand goes around the world to give the Amazon forest the fertilizer it needs to grow?"

Can you cite the source of this supposed effect? I assume your point No. 2 is satirical.

No, it is a real effect.
Sahara sand really does fertilize the Amazon:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=17512

Also the Sahara really is a resource for the people who live there. If some European agency goes in and mines the solar energy there, what amount of that goes to the people who really own the resource?

Hi ~USAN~ How does this happen? We notice that there are already comments here on a newly posted thread that are somewhat critical of a plan that will eleminate all of the need for coal and nuclear power plants in Europe.

~Ezeflyer~, they will have a sealed system for the water to make steam, after the steam powers the turbines it condenses back to water and it just keeps recycling through the system.

Salt water is far more corrosive for steam turbine's blades. With "cost free" fuel for electrical power, they will be able to de-salinate sea water cheaply, irrigate parts of the Sahara and use their own "sand" fertilizer and also crack sea water for hydrogen fuel at a very affordable cost.

The comment about a terrorist attack is sort of strange. Can't terrorists attack nuclear plants and cause far more problems? Or do terrorists only attack solar plants?

There will be plenty of sand left after this plant is developed and who has the land title for that land will very likely be well compensated. They likely have already made an agreement. We gotta have better denying commments here, those are too easy. Where is Billy and Kendpotter when we need them?

umm, I wasn't saying we shouldn't do this.

I think this would be fantastic.

I just want to point out that we have a really poor record of environmental damage when building infrastructure and we have a bad history of taking things from Africa without paying for them.

But, yes, I agree this is a good step in the right direction.

It seems as though it would make more sense to use the Sahara to provide electricity to Africa.

Agrica is on fire, they have lots of night lights.

I would be so bold as to "assume", a trait which I normally deplore, that if this plan works, there will be some more constructed for Arcica, Egypt, the Mid-east regions, Australia, South America, China, Canada, Mongolia, the Medetranian countries, England and the Netherlands, and maybe even the good ol U.S.A., combined with wind, geo-thermal, tidal and wave power of course. The fact is, we must stop burning coal. ___ SOON.

youbetterwork -- Without wishing to say it could not be done, because of course it could, it would be hard to imagine any change to the Sahara that would not be an improvement.

By the way, it is not all sand. And as for dust from the Sahara fertilising the Amazon, pull-ease!

Isn't it the Amazon forest that's being destroyed by people? If it is, then it won't be needing the sand for fertilizer after all.

"HVDC cables can carry more power for the same thickness of cable compared with AC lines but are only suited to long distance transmission as they require expensive devices to convert the electricity..."

New generations of inversion and switching technologies are on the horizon. Everything changes, even change itself. Opting for change usually speeds the rate of change. The results are mostly seen in performance/efficiency increases and decreases in size/costs.

It's tough to project future costs/savings as there's no way to accurately gauge the degree of change through innovation over longer periods of time. As to the switches/inverters to which you refer, there is every expectation to believe that cost will come down and efficiency will increase.

We must start now. Energy loss due to AC transmission can no longer be ignored.

WMD ARE BAKING IN THE DESERT SUN

The Sahara desert is an Al Qaida stronghold. The WMD that weren't found in Iraq are there, according to a prisoner captured in Iraq and tortured to death by the CIA. Apparently, Al Qaida has dug a vast tunnel system under the sand. This is where many of the fighters live and plot their terror attacks.

We need to take the Sahara desert out! After we have done that, we must commandeer the sunshine for peaceful purposes, depriving Al Qaida of the much-needed heated agitation that it thrives on.

:)

At reasonable recovery rates and accounting for cloudy days etc, a solar electric facility the size of Lake Mead recovers enough energy to power ALL of California.

This would require EU socialism, and King George assures us that socialism doesn't work. Da King says, let 'free market' capitalism free to work its magic! After all, to free market capitalism:

1. A Big Mac and fries is FOOD,
2. '57 channels and nothin's on' is ENTERTAINMENT,
3. A Hummer is TRANSPORTATION, and
4. The ocean/atmosphere system is a municipal dump.

This article and this thread are both very informative and inspirational. If we could only cast off the shackles of corporate capitalism and politicized science, and instead wed science with the love that is in our hearts! "Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free. It's dizzying, the possibilities."---Throwing Stones, The Grateful Dead.

Alternative types of power are out there for countries with governments that are not corrupt and will accept change. America is not one of them

Will there be any juice left over for, I don't know, Africa?

~COYOTEBREATH~!!! What a name You must be tougher than a shoe leather steak. ___ LOL

This famous American oilman "T Bone" Perkins, may be the light at the end of Bush's tunnel. We'll see. Already the CNN jerkoffs are making snide comments about him.

A solar panel is just sand and dirt, to which energy has been added.
Why are they so expensive? It's the cost of the energy.
Think about that for a minute. The Cost Of the Energy??? What's a solar panel for???
People need to look more carefully at the industrial engineering of the solar panel, with an eye to using the processes output as energy input. Until that happens, solar panels will continue to be overpriced for no good reason other than that a 'lowest common denominator' capitalism gives them that price. This capitalism insists the 'cost of energy' be drawn on the open market (it's analysis frankly blows up if you suggest 'energy' could come 'free')

'Lowest common denominator' capitalism is the wrong paradym for costing a solar panel (or, in fact, ANY energy producing product whose major cost IS energy).

But try telling that to 'free-market' conservatives like Bush.

I know what I'm saying sounds radical, but, thermodynamically, there is just NO reason why a solar panel producing plant couldn't be parked in the Mojave or Sahara desert, and (properly engineered) find EVERYTHING IT NEEDS to produce solar panels, in situ, for free.

No electricity costs. No material costs.

Just shovel sand in one side of the plant, and shovel solar panels out the other side of the plant.

The only cost would be the cost of maintenance of the (fairly sophisticated) equipment inside the plant.

NO ENERGY COST WHATSOEVER.

For all we know, they may do just that ~UBREW~.

I hope they do. It's been a crying shame watching the oil and nuclear industries take the hog of the energy dollar, and use a fraction of that to deny global warming and prevent useful research into alternatives for 30 years.

One of the oddest things, was to watch the Feds (under Reagan) do an about face and refuse to fund wind-energy in the 1980s. California wind farms had just gotten started thanks to generous subsidies and the rug was pulled out from under them. Yet, wind is SO cheap that these wind farms not only survived, they THRIVED. How much better if they'd just gotten a fraction of what the nuclear industry pulled, and oil.

Yeah, it's a kum ba ya moment and that's great but how is this not just a new wave of imperialism? More European jacking of African and Middle Eastern resources, how is this a good thing?
Now for those of you considering the cost effectiveness, look up Paulo Lugari's work in Los Gaviotas, Columbia. David Weisman wrote about it a while back, here's the link: http://astore.amazon.com/oneworldnet03-20/detail/1890132284
They apparently were able to harness solar energy even in cloudy conditions, which I think could be replicated in existing structures to create energy locally. We need to stop thinking in such broad expansive ways that require massive infrastructure and further subjugation of other people's natural resources and start figuring out how to keep things local and in our own space. In short we need to live with in our means.

cheeky, yeah lots of problems with Sahara Solar for European Electricity. Exploitation of African land, will need guard towers, maybe a million mile wall. Just imagine you were born at the edge of the Sahara and you have a spiritual connection with it. Then you visit Europe and they are leaving the lights on all night because your sacred homeland is so cheap and easy to exploit.

The article says there's three times the sunlight in the Sahara vs Europe then it says much of the cost is in the transmission so umm I guess if they really added up the full costs of the transmission, including the security patrols, the externalized costs of the materials and the political costs, it's not as nice as it sounds in the marketing brochure.

If 0.3% of the Sahara can supply Europe, then 1% of Europe can supply Europe. There are many important benefits to putting the power plant near the consumers. 1.) Lets others have their land back. 2.) Eliminates transmission lines and all their problems. 3.) Local industry to benefit local communities. 4.) The waste heat may be utilized in industrial processes for huge energy savings and greatly reducing water consumption (Sahara would use dry cooling instead of wet for 10% power penalty).

So now they want to steal Africas solar energy.

From EIR

"This British policy of treating Africans as chattel, wiping out their people, and looting their resources became the official, although not public policy of the United States, under President Richard Nixon, with Henry Kissinger's 1974 National Security Study Memorandum 200 (NSSM 200). This report targeted the fastest-growing populations in the "Third World" for population reduction—i.e., genocide. It also sought to prevent those nations from expending their natural resources for their own benefit, when these resources were deemed vital to the Western financial cartels. NSSM 200 was a Malthusian tirade against population growth, especially that of non-Caucasian people, but also included the importance of the "advanced sector" having a continuous flow of "mineral supplies" from developing countries which had high rates of population growth.

In its Executive Summary, under the subhead, "Minerals and Fuels," Kissinger's report states: "Rapid population growth is not in itself a major factor in pressure in depletable resources (fossil fuels and other minerals), since demand for them depends more on levels of industrial output than on numbers of people. On the other hand, the world is increasingly dependent on mineral supplies from developing countries, and if rapid population growth frustrates their prospects for economic development and social progress, the resulting instability may undermine conditions for expanded output and sustained flows of such resources" (emphasis added).

If one truly desires to understand why people are suffering in such horrible conditions today, and why countries like Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, Zimbabwe, and South Africa are under attack, one need only refer to NSSM 200."

Now we understand why we want to suppress Africas development through population growth.

As for the solar plant idea, I am sold. If the governmnet ever frees itself from the clutches of the financial oligarchs and creates it's own money for it, we can do it.

They won't though, since the plan is to encourage the rest of our manufacturing base to move to Asia. Thats what the carbon tax and carbon cap and trade are all about. By the time these solar plants are all built, most people will be living in tents, assuming they are still around above ground and not buried 6 ft under.

There are several countries like Israel England etc looking and moving forward. The US wants in a story last week make oil from coal. There is a problem with this or what!!!

WHAT TO DO WITH ALL THE COAL IN AMERICA
Turn it into a giant Britta water filter and clean up the worlds water supply.

MiMiCcS July 24th, 2008 4:58 am

So now they want to steal Africas solar energy.

WHAT a load of BULL CRAP!!!

The ME thanks to an accident of geology has been the recipient of the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind. NO ONE HAS STOLEN THEIR OIL!! If we did regular gas would be about $1 a gallon in the US, not $5.07 where I live!!!!!

IF this is feasible which it may not be (every thing looks good on paper), the Europeans will finance it, engineer it, build it, run it and pay the North Africans a vast amount of money while they like the citizens of the ME sit back and DO NOTHING but rake in the $$$$$. AND since when do the North Africans OWN the sun?
Europe will be in a decade or so be held hostage by the NA electricity just like the rest of the world is held hostage by the ME oil.

It would appear Islam (with the help of blatantly ignorant and greedy infidel leaders) has finally found a way to finally defeat the infidel and avenge Abd-ar-Rahman and the Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa, without firing a shot. Just get them totally dependent on Islam for their energy and then either drive up the price or cut them off and watch their economies collapse and the world will be ruled by sharia law (it's already the law in some parts of europe now). Read sura 9:5 in the qur'an for all the details.

MiMiCcS, you probably won't see this, but for information about Britain's foreign policy over the decades, go here:

www.markcurtis.info

Mark Curtis is a British historian and journalist, he's a reputable, trustworthy source for information.

PS The site is very relevant to Americans, as often where Britain is/was abroad, so is/was the U.S.; what Britain is/was doing, so is/was the U.S.

(Sorry for the poor sentence construction).

Wolf123 writes: "AND since when do the North Africans OWN the sun? Europe will be in a decade or so be held hostage by the NA electricity just like the rest of the world is held hostage by the ME oil."

Wolf's colonial mentality shining through!

Neither the ME nor Africa can hold another country hostage for merely protecting/exploiting its country's natural endowments.

Will Americans let foreigners take their oil, trees, land, etc., for free?

As for who owns the sunlight: sunlight, whether you agree or not, is a resource, like any other resource.

As soon as the "white man" wants something foreigners have, if it's not handed over for little or no cost, America and Britain scream they are being held hostage. lol! (I'm white, incidentally).

It's merely economics, wolf. What's very valuable to others, even if cheap to produce or obtain, can end up being very expensive to buy.

Film stars get paid tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for doing next to nothing. I don't hear you screaming that Hollywood is being held hostage by them.

It's all just economics and capitalism.

staying_sane_in_an_insane_world July 25th, 2008 7:19 am

Sorry it's NOT "all just economics and capitalism."

The problem is you don't have a clue, the ME and NA will hold Europe and the world hostage to their ENERGY DRUGS (economics) just like drug dealers hold their addicts hostage to their drugs. The main difference is the drug dealer is also addicted to the money he gets for his drugs the ME does not give a flying shit about the money. It's all about forcing the world to accept sharia law The law of allah. Unfortunately your head is so far up your ass you can't see it. You despise capitalism and through that vision of hate you can't see islam sneaking up behind you to cut off your head.