Savage Stands by Autism Remarks

It matters not if some of what SAVAGE said may be factual or not. His comments were atrocious and any who would support him in ANY manner is someone who deserves harsh criticism.

I grind my axe with you ~PISSANT~ and you may do likewise with me. And I could care less if you find me to be boring, in fact if your type didn't, I'd be concerned.

In case you don't know it, KEM PATRICK has an axe to grind from previous interchanges we have had, in which he is exposed as a reactionary anti-communist, who claims that if we all just spent forever improving ourselves, somehow that would spread to the imperialist masters as well. His froth-mouthed slams are deliberately deceptive, as anyone can see if they read our posts. I grow bored with him, but I guess it is necessary to respond.

I despise what Savage stands for in general, but it is folly to think that everything that comes from his sick brain is false. As I listened to his rantings, I realized that part of what he said is true - that the massive medication of children that we see today is undoubtedly misplaced and has a sinister element. I lend this credibility - despite its source - because it corresponds closely with my own experiences with the sawbones. I did not defend Savage's attack on autistic children and their parents - quite the contrary. If my words can be interpreted as supporting Savage's mean-spirited attack on the victims, that is certainly not my intent, and I apologize. I only wanted to point to a grain of truth to ONE THING that Savage had expressed, which is that drugs and medical procedures should be applied to children only after careful reflection and the exhaustion of alternatives.

Enough said?

So did I GEEK BTW, as I stated here in a prior post. Certainly a few children may be mis-diagnosd and many may be prescribed unnecessay and harmful drugs. That's another issue. This one was primariy Savage's abscene remarks. Mis diagnosis does not in any manner excuse Savage for his incredible remarks and another problem is ~Pissant's~ word usage in defense of SAVAGE.

KEM, read the article above:

"Catherine Lord, an expert on autism who is a visiting professor in the child study center at New York University, said that beneath Mr. Savage’s overheated rhetoric was a kernel of truth: that some children are saddled with an autism diagnosis by default, when they seem to fit in no other category."

As I mentioned in a post above, I do have a child who has been diagnosed with autism, BTW.

That is not at all what you said in your first post ~PISSANT~ and you and anyone who can read knows it.

First you stated you were not a doctor, "Buttt". And you also defended Savage's remarks with, you agree with his comments about autism being mis-diagnosed, etc. You come on and blather bullshit that autism is over-rated, mis-diagnosed, etc. Is that a fact?

I am certain that a minor mumber of any medical cases are mis-diagnosed. But autuism is usually quite obvious by the time a child is two to three years of age unless the child only suffers very minor attacks or episodes.

Autism is a brain disorder, a disase of the brain cells ~Pissant~ and your's and the GEEKS comments here on the subject are insulting bullshit for any parent who has a child who is autistic. As you fisrst stated, you don't know what you are talking about. Stick to your communism theme.

KEM PATRICK, why are you so venomous? I don't see that GEEK or me are attacking you or your assertions in these posts. We are only attempting to make sure that the autism situation is examined through the lens of well-known corruption in the medical establishment.

My position is that top quality medical care should be free to all, as a transitional demand that underscores the meanness of capitalism. We are certainly not saying that hurting children should be ignored. DU is an horrible weapon, and mercury in children's vaccinations is rightly being questioned. So what's your beef, doc? That we are not MD's specializing in autism? We never have claimed to be the know-it-all that you apparently are, but only offered that we must not lose our skeptic's perspective. Chill!

Yeah uh-huh, like you first said in so many words PISSANT, you don't know what you're talking about. And are you a medical diagnostic expert GEEK?

Your selected code names seem to be quite appropriate BTW.

Big_Geek July 24th, 2008 12:03 pm: That's what I meant to say. I could stand to take composition lessons from you.

In fact, and with deference to KIM PATRICK, I am not in a position to say whether autism is overdiagnosed or not, but experience makes me highly suspicious when a cascade of drugs and procedures are rained down upon every youth who isn't exactly like some fake ideal of the pefect child.

I think pissant makes some good points. Autism is real, but at the same time it is becoming increasingly over diagnosed. Part of the problem is the business model of the healthcare industry. The model is "supposed" to make things more efficient and cost effective (because the profit motive magically makes things efficient and reduces costs, right?).

The problem is, in the case of the health care industry, that the profit motive drives up costs instead. Physicians and drug companies are not competing to provide the best services at the lowest cost. Actually, the more unnecessary treatments and costly services they provide, the more money they make. Over prescription and over diagnosis means more money. Physicians and patients alike are mostly playing with other people's money (the insurance Co.), so there is no incentive to minimize costs (only an incentive to maximize costs!).

The insurance companies are playing with the employers' money, so there is little incentive for them to control costs. Rather, the higher health care costs skyrocket, the higher the cut that insurance companies get.

The system is deeply flawed and needs to be replaced.

C'mon KEM PATRICK, you are misrepresrenting what I said! I don't even disagree that autism is likely on the rise, nor with what you and others are saying about the probable causes of increased autism.

I have known one autistic child over a period of years, and do not doubt that it exists. But I also know of the pressure from the medical/educational community to overmedicate, including with my own son (who is now an adult who makes me very proud). That pressure extends into adulthood, and the dubious medicines and procedures that have been prescribed for me and those I know well are legion. What you will almost never hear from these AMA 'healers' is anything like nutritional approaches. I can say without doubt that I have all but eliminated my once debilitating atrial fibrilation through nutrition, for example - with no help at all from the esteemed clinic where I get my routine medical work done.

The reason I used the term 'unfortunately' is pretty obvious in the context of my post - I am reluctant to give that arrogant and savage reactionary even a shred of credibility. Still, just because Nazi's developed the VW does not make it a bad car.

Could it be that a chip on your shoulder is clouding your judgement?

My Grandmother, told my mother that smoking and drinking could affect a fetus and she should not do either if with child. My mother never smoked or drank alchohol after that.

This was back in the 1940s. There were no peer reviewed articles by scientists suggesting such the case then.

People must open their mind to anything being behind the scourges of diseases we have rampant out there. Waiting on the "Peer reviewed Science" can be too little too late.

The fact if the matter is that *IF* something like the use of DU Munitions and the pollutants from such lead to Autism, it does so whether there peer reviewed science on the matter or not.

The sharing of information and opinions , even if the evidence provided by what is very often a compromised Scientific community is inconclusive, helps all of us lead to more awareness.

Hi there ~PISSANT~.___ Since you state you are not qualified to speak on the issue, but do so anyway, I have a suggestion for you, so you may become sowmewhat more educated about Autism.

Go to a school where they have some Autistic students and request to visit a classroom and then observe and listen and then decide or determne, if you believe the children have been mis-diagnosed.

Why do you say "UNFORTUNANTLY", if you believe that "rat shock jock" is correct. You want to replace him perhaps? You certainly may be qualified there.

Thank you ~KITTYC~ for yur post. I agree there are many poisons that may be responsible, as I stated at 1:19pm, July 22nd.

The reason I personally suspect DU over others as the "primary" and most serious reason, is due to the fact that Autism AND childhood cancers began to have a "dramatic" increase right after DU was first used as weapons. Thousands of tons have been expended here in the United States and once burned, the microscopic particles can travel for thousands of miles.

There are over (five billion) of those specks of deadly DU poison in a single cupfull of aerosolized DU. There are three cupfulls, or 15 billion specks that are wind blown from a single tank's ten pounds of DU tipped cannon shell. There are are from one to two tons of DU in some bunker buster bombs. How many cups and deadly specks in a ton? I have no idea, ___lots.

DU can seriously harm anyone, or any living thing, however a child's immune system is not fully developed and inhaling even a single speck can more easily cause cancer in a child than an adult, cancer of the lungs or the brain. If inhaled through the nose and it crosses the oflatory bulb and goes directly to the brain and lodges there, over time brain cancer is almost assurred.

If and when a cancer develops, over time sections may break off, just as they will with melanoma and then travel to any part of the body through the blood stream and start another cancer factory.

In the lungs, it can enter the blood stream just as oxygen does and travel to any part of the body and it may lodge in bone marrow, where it can alter genes, or cause any number of nasty diseases, such as Lou Gerhig's disease, diabetes, Hodgkins, PTSD, Lupus, etc. Of course it becomes far more serious as the number of specks inhaled or injested rises.

No government dares to now admit they have used such an inhumane weapon, there are 30 countries who now use it, they mostly buy it from us. Our nuclear power plant managers happily give the stuff to weapons manufactures and then they don't have to store it for a million years.

Our government is and has been covering it up and some of the articles available on the internet are written by governnment funded writers or scientists. Even "WHO" denies it is dangerous. They have destroyed the finding and writings of some of their doctors and they quit in disgust. Because of that type of mis-information, Congress does not act on the issue and of course neither does our "free" press or media.

The string is pretty long, and the story grows cold, but I listened to the Savage Weiner the last couple of days, and unfortunately have to grant him some credit.

His position is that the tremendous growth in autism diagnoses is related to big pharma and perhaps other self-serving interests. I am not a medical expert, but as a long-time 'health food nut', I could not agree more that the AMA medical community is entirely too quick to assign the latest whiz-bang (and usually expensive) drug to everything they see. I don't have to be an expert, because I have seen them try to use me and those I love as a cash-flow pincushions way too many times! The bad doctor is correct in following the money trail on this issue.

It goes beyond lazy all the way into cynical, from what I have observed. Of course, Weiner's bombastic and overly general attacks on autism diagnoses rightly damages whatever credibility he has, and is hurtful to truly ill children, but we must be careful to not throw out the baby with the bath water.

The mis-training of physicians, and pushing of unnecessary drugs is just a tiny part of the corruption that captalism brings into our lives. This scourge will not go away until a socialist revolution replaces profit with humanitarianism in the world of medicine. Thus, even to get honest medical care, we must forge a Leninist party (the SL is the best I know of), integrate it into key industrial sectors (including healthcare), and end the vicious rule of imperialism forever.

For those of you who want more information on the effects of ionizing radiation, check out the work done by Rosalie Bertell (or Google her, sorry if you won't Google). She is a nun of the Sacred Heart and a Ph.D. in biometrics and has written about this and many other subjects over the last 40 years. I had the pleasure of hearing her lecture here in my neighborhood a year or so ago and had dinner with her. She came to our town to talk about DU, as that is a subject of great concern among the followers of veterans health issues around here. The DU of concern is the aerosolized version, as mentioned above, and the offensive form it takes is that of microscopic glass-like spheres, like atomized glass beads, and forms when it passes through a tank's armor for instance. The DU dust, in the form of these microscopic particles, becomes airborne easily and will disperse throughout the atmosphere. The particles emit alpha radiation (not gamma radiation, as it seems many on this site seem to think) which cannot even penetrate a sheet of paper, but can penetrate living cells and cause genetic damage. As Kem Patrick noted above, the DU may not show up in blood or urine tests after some time has passed from initial ingestion. The stuff does not seem to be chemically reactive, but emits the alpha particles just the same, and can break chromosomes or cause other cellular damage. These can lead to a host of physical ailments. The research is inconclusive, to say the least, as to its causing cancer and birth defects. But from my empirical view of the world, it seems DU will likely be found to be one of the culprits in autism, along with food allergies, environmental pollution, heavy metals and genetic disposition, the list goes on. We're living in a toxic soup and our scientists have their work cut out for them.

There were and still are a lot of childhood cancer cases and autism, etc, in the area of the atomic power plant located near the Jersey shore and a lot of DU was test fired at Fort Dix/ McGuire AFB in new Jersey also.

Hi ~Alaskamaid~, thank you for the kind words. James was our second loss of a son, our youngest son Patrick was killed at the age of ten when another boy was playing with a gun at their house. Over time it becomes easier, ____ but the wound never heals.

I relaize many who comment here don't believe in a God or an after-life, but both I and Evie had the rare opportunity to speak with our Pat a few months after his untimely death and he was Okay and did not wish to return here. He wasn't a little boy any longer either, he was a beautiful young man and he was very wise.

He let us know that he was doing very important work and Evie stopped praying for his return after that wonderful day and it was much much easier for both of us. We still miss both of the boys of course.

That incredible experience we both had was in seperate ares of our home and during the same ten minute time period of a fall afternoon and neither of us had been asleep or were sleeping and we both recieved the same message, except Evie's time was much longer, I only had a brief minute or two.

I know for certain now that there is a God and he will not allow us to suffer more pain than we can handle. We were both heading towards insanity and a very probable divorse. It's been Okay ever since. We just celebrated our 52nd anniversary. I don;'t tell that story often, but sometimes I get a strong feeling that I should.

Apology sincerely accepted. You were more tha gracious, more so than I was. We all have bad days, I sure have my share. So don't go away from Common Dreams, we lean from one another by debating issue like DU global warming etc.

Kent:

” didn’ ” ? Is this the newly approved contraction for “did not”? ” didn’ ” ? Got any more stones to throw from your glass house, there, “buddy” ? Got some problem with LITTLE words there, “buddy” ?

Hi Buddy, I don't have to hide behind big words to get my point through.

KEM Patrick, I offer my sincerest apology for the way I reacted to your offer of sympathy. Without knowing your background and experience with autism I presumed to place you in a category of people I have encountered who profess their sympathy for my son's condition without having the personal experience themselves. For that I am truly sorry for my reaction to your comments. I make no excuse for it and I own the consequences of it from here on.

You also asked how I know about my son's condition with respect to his reaction to soy, corn syrup and wheat without a peer reviewed paper. Well it's simple. My wife and I had my son tested by a doctor with a chem panel. It's a regimen where he was exposed to various foods and chemicals and the results are sent to a lab. It's an expensive test, as all things regarding autism treatment tend to be, but the results of 2 tests indicate that he has a pronounced allergic reaction to soy, corn, dairy products and wheat to name a sample of the food/chem types he reacted to. My wife and I can also observe the results when he consumes those foods. His bright attentive look goes away and he "zones out" and goes into his own world. The results are consistent when he consumes those foods. That’s how my wife knows and I stand by her observations. She's very adept at anything medical.

I agree that DU weapons can cause birth defects if the U-238 becomes pyrophoric and aerosolizes and is then inhaled by people downwind from where the DU munitions are used. I read the website. It was loooong and the brought up many good facts but if it’s damaged genes in the adults that is the cause of autism then I may be guilty as charged. However, I would say that exposure to radioactive radon gas is a much higher possibility, in my case, than living downwind from Fort Hood in Austin or living downwind from 3 Mile Island (TMI) from my vantage point in New Jersey ever was. Most homes in the North East where I lived back in the 70’s had and still have basements which collect and trap radon gas and it is likely the cause of more radiation sickness in the US then DU or TMI ever were because of the shear number of houses in the NE with basements. Even Dr. Helen Caldicott, a pediatrician and author of “Nuclear Power is Not the Answer,” agrees on this point. So if your contention is that it is because of radioactivity look to basements first before you go after DU.

Labeling everyone on C/D as equivalent to MS unfair? Well then I’m guilty as charged, provisionally. His toxicity has affected me as well and I am no better than MS for stooping to his level with respect to your comments regarding my son. There are some thoughtful people out there who have made positive contributions. However many have resorted to ad-hominem attacks and that just legitimizes what he does for a living and if there’s anything I want to do is to dis-empower this guy.

Finally if my further postings only serve to divide this group then this is my final post. I do not wish to do the adversary’s work for him/her.

Poor baby does somebody need his diaper changed? Mike is getting awfully cranky.

And how about the babies who are born autistic or may suffer that and also have even more serious birth defects. Lots of those at military hospitals. Epidemic in fact and the government or the center for disease control is not releasing that info.

Okay ~KEN~ and likewise when they insult you as they have on the 9-11 threads. Looks like we are pretty much on the same page with DU used as weapons. It is not very dangerous until burned and aerosolized. They do use lots of DU in bunker buster bombs. Four tons in the "Big Blue". And as yuou stated, it is not an atomic bomb. The eventual long lasting radiation hazard however may be far worse than an atomic bomb.

I remember, shortly after the beginning of Gulf War 1, reading a sensitive soul say that there seemed to be an unidentified demonic element which was unbound during that conflict . . . that person was right on, as that War was the first large-scale use of Depleted Uranium . . . the more esoteric among us might say that radiation is a very handy method of keeping our DNA in a fractured and degenerate condition, which keeps us as a species from healing . . . the Iraqis KNOW that they have been genetically poisoned by the US . . .
it is CRIMINAL that this knowledge is pretty much limited to internet forums . . .

It does seem rather synchronous that autism diagnosis leaped so dramatically in the 1990's, altho some of that may be attributed to thimerosol and the heavy vaccination schedule as well (the Russians stopped using thimerosol decades ago)

As far as 'peer reviewed' articles go -- i had to slog through a great many of that sub-species during an anthropology class last fall, most were very poorly written, the big problem with 'peer review' is that naturally the peers will refuse to review in the first place any article which does not already substantively agree with their position -- so what you really get is a 'preaching to the choir' effect calling itself 'peer review' . . .

Kem Patrick -- i am sorry for the loss of your son, what i have learned during this sojourn is that we are creatures not only of form but also of frequency, and while frequency codes for form, it is not dependent on it . . . if that makes any sort of sense to you . . .

Frankly, I doubt that there is one single cause of autism, considering that pretty much every case of autism has unique things about it. I personally believe that it's a combination of many things coming together in just the right way to mess with a child's brain in unpredictable ways.

Hi Kem,

As always, somehow we end up like this. I have never said DU wasn't dangerous. It is, particularly when it is aerosolized.

Nevertheless, my good friend, when someone castigates you over something you quite obviously know a lot about (history, crash investigation) I will defend you.

Just as I will laugh at anyone who thinks DU is used as the explosive in a thermonuclear bomb or as fuel in a reactor. They may have a degree in something or the other but it sure as hell is in no relevant field.

Hi ~KENDPOTTER~ I never claim that I'm an expert on the DU subject, I do post comments and offer links to back my comments up, so when anyone says I'm wrong, they actually are saying the doctors and scientists whom I quote are wrong so like you, they must be experts on the subject. It never matters to you whom I quote, you always say they are wrong, like the nuclear professor at Georgetown university, and there are hundreds of nuclear scientists who totally disagree wth your comments about the dangers of DU and why does our militsay warn soldiers to keep clear of expended DU ammo if there is no danger as you have stated? You are spinning the mukers claims and of course you fully support nuclear energy. So who is it that has an agenda? Not you of course.__ LOL

And to believe the governments of the world cannot cover up the truth as you stated is a bit much. I beleive our government and others can cover up many things or put out their spin, as the meo-cons who control our electeted, also control the media and press.

And as to DU poison, even our government and the Pentagon have admitted that inhaling DU is deadly. I do find it strnange that some here believe soy and corn products can cause autism, but become a bit testy if someone suggests DU may be a cause.

And I won't cherry pick anyone's posts here and select and then repeat specific paragraphs like ~Radio Tec~ does, which may cause others to be mislead or take others comments out of context.

I will say I find it humerous and am somewhat bewildered that he posts comments here, asks questions and if one replys and or also posts comments here, he says we shold stop wasting our time posting comments here at C/D and do somethng productive. It's alright for him to post comments, but if someone makes a comment he disagrees with they should go away.

And you ask me to please stick to PEER REVIEWED articles. Then you say your wife believes soy, wheat and corn products play a significant factor with autism. As you didn't state you disagree with that , do you have any PEER REVIEWED studies about that that you could share with us ?

Finally RADIO TEC, you say that after reading the comments here you find ALL of the bloggers have slipped to the level of ~SAVAGE~. HUH? How on Earth could you or anyone foster that opinion. And you also say you don't live "down wind" from any military bombing or firing ranges, but you live in Houston, Texas. Ahh, how uniformed most are. BTW as to posting comments here at C/D? We're retired, but we spend eight or more hours a week assisting L/D teachers, it's a local group of parents and teachers named (PIC) "Parents Involved Care".

Have a good day R/T and no need to apologize for blasting me for nothing. I see that you are a type that shoots from the lip.

nigelUK July 23rd, 2008 2:05 am

"I’ll let both Mr. Savage’s crass remarks, and the works of Stephen Wiltshire, one of my country’s top artists (if not the World’s) speak for themselves. Stephen’s Website is www.stephenwiltshire.co.uk"

After reading his detailed bio, I can't help but feel that, if Wiltshire was not diagnosed with autism as a child, he'd be referred to as an "eccentric genius" rather than an "idiot savant." I'd rather be called an eccentric genius!

mnibbler July 22nd, 2008 1:04 pm

"There is no doubt in my mind that this idiot just got confused between autism and ADD and now he feels to stupid to admit it."

I believe you have nailed it on the head! Otherwise, his comments make no sense whatsoever. It is a pretty common "conservative" POV that ADD is just bad behavior.

whatfools July 22nd, 2008 2:13 pm

"Dr. Albert Einstein was autistic."

Einstein was never diagnosed with autism (although he was a late talker). When people suggest that Einstein was autistic, it becomes apparent just how broad the autistic label has become. Apparently, any kind of atypical development is more or less considered autism.

If what he had was autism, where can I get some? We should find the cause of autism so we can have more of it!

I too have a child who was diagnosed with autism. I personally think it is ridiculous that a child who is very bright, affectionate, sociable, well-behaved, and has no significant language delay can be given such a label. These days, autism apparently just means "different." That is the epidemic.

The autism diagnosis is a way for atypical children to qualify for free government services. Physicians (and apparently psychologists also) are basically playing with other people's money, so they will of course tend to over diagnose and over prescribe just to be on the safe side. The wasted money and wasted effort are of no consequence for them. (Although there are of course many children who genuinely need these services).

Radio_tec your wife is probably correct. Corn and soy products are in friggin everyting. They are one of the factors in the obesity crisis in this country.

On July 23rd, 2008 11:16 am kendpotter wrote:

"“el mysterio,
Hey Ken Potter, Long time no see…

Which field are you ‘very well educated’ in? Autism or the effects of DU exposure?”

Hi el mysterio,

No, not autism though I have read about it and have studied epidemiology. I really feel terrible about the inability for science to make significant strides for these kids. As near as I can tell there appear to be many factors at work. I hope that chelation can be proven as effective therapy because I am have a hunch that heavy-metal toxicity has many effects not yet well understood [SNIP]"

kendpotter, you've been very constructive on the science side and I thank you for that. I subscribe to the Carl Sagan school of science that says, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," so I listen to Professor Michio Kaku habitually on my Pacifica affiliate because I respect his heartfelt dedication to the integrity of science and its service in the public's interest.

Blaming sure feels good. I should know because I have engaged in it. I too believed in the themerasol link but my deductive reasoning side isn't satisfied by the paltry and circumstantial links so I let that go. Now I have to focus on what the science says. And yes even my wife believes to a certain extent to the thimerasol link but she believes that soy lecithin, modern soy products, corn syrup particularly, wheat and other foods play a significant factor as well.

On July 23rd, 2008 1:58 am KEM PATRICK wrote:

"I apologize for bothering you ~RADIO TEC~. I did not intend to anger or annoy you, that in fact never entered my mind. Silly me. I DO UNDERSTAND AUTISM AND HOW IT EFFECTS THE FAMILY, BECAUSE OUR FIRST ADOPTED SON WAS AUTISTIC.

James was killed on Christmas eve many years ago at the age of 20, when he ran out in front of a speeding truck. His pain and hurt for not being what was considered to be normal bdhaviour by his peers ended that evening.

Jim actually was a genius with math, and he memorized long mathamatical charts by just reading them once but he could not very well understand instructions or anything like a text book for scinece he read. It was very frustrating for him. [SNIP]

KEM PATRICK, those statements are the first I do understand. All I have ever wanted are solutions and not witch hunts. It if is DU, so be it, but I have never been in the military or have lived near a weapons testing range. I would rather deal with certainties so let’s please, please stick to peer reviewed research and not gut feelings. That's the same thinking, or lack there-of, that got this nation into the mess we are in.

As for Michael Savage, MS from here on, he is what he is. I have had the unfortunate circumstance to listen to him and I change the station because the man is so toxic. I'm grateful to have a Pacifica station here where I live in Houston and that helps to make up for the sewer that AM talk radio is today.

He is symptomatic of a more general public reaction that I see when my son gets out of control. Sometimes when someone gets upset with my son I feel like saying, "Sorry, shall I have him flogged for you!" And it is the publics' perception of autism that needs changing after all. I can deal with these demagogues behind the mics. But we in the autism community understand each other and often a kind action toward my son speaks louder than words because it says I am with you because I live in this situation too.

As I read the posts on this site I see that MS is winning. He has succeeded in getting all of you to get down to his level. It’s almost as if MS was planting pods under the beds of those who call themselves, "progressive," "liberal," or even "radical."

So if you really want to help us in the autism community BE OUR ALLIES. Stop pontificating on websites and when you see a child yank your daughter's pizza slice and start eating it show some understanding and kindness. That's all we want. We'll handle the discipline part.

Hi Kem,

You are quite right. I tried to look at the first link but was unable to for some reason. You know what I think of the second link so I won't bother. I did get to the first link today and while I am familiar with a couple of the cites and people I did not do any research on them. I did pull one paragraph and I will tell you what is true and what is not in what was stated.

"Depleted Uranium gets its name from the manufacturing process used to extract the isotope uranium-235 which is know as enriched uranium." True

"Depleted Uranium is primarily composed of the isotope uranium-238." True

"DU is used as the nuclear fuel in hydrogen bombs." Completely false. The nuclear fuel in a thermonuclear device is plutonium (in the primary), lithium deuteride and tritium (in the secondary). The only thing DU is used for is as a neutron reflector.

"Only about 10% of the nuclear power plants are designed to use DU in their reactors the other 90% must use the enriched 235 isotope." False, you cannot run a reactor on DU. You need enriched uranium (a minimum of 2.5%) to sustain a reaction. We used to have weapons production reactors that would employ U-238 as a target. Enriched uranium created a reaction bombarding the U-238 and turning it into plutonium 239 and 240.

"Following use in a reactor, enriched uranium is converted to DU and made into weapons because of it's extreme density." Nonsense. DU is created in the first part of the fuel cycle and the stuff that is used in weapons never sees the inside of a reactor. We don't do reprocessing of fuel in this country due to proliferation concerns. The fuel is used once, sits in a pool to cool, and then is slated for long-term disposal at some site such as Yucca Mountain (assuming it is ever opened).

"DU emits 60% of the radiation of enriched uranium" Utter nonsense, DU is far less reactive than natural uranium let alone enriched uranium.

"and behaves in the body the same way as other uranium." Absolutely true in respect to chemical toxicity. Isotopic content has no effect other than on the emitted radiation.

Kem, these people have some kind of agenda. I don't pretend to know what it is but they made so many mis-statements and half-truths in that one paragraph that you can't trust anything they say. If you have a strong case, there is no need to exaggerate or make things up.

"el mysterio,
Hey Ken Potter, Long time no see…

Which field are you ‘very well educated’ in? Autism or the effects of DU exposure?"

Hi el mysterio,

No, not autism though I have read about it and have studied epidemiology. I really feel terrible about the inability for science to make significant strides for these kids. As near as I can tell there appear to be many factors at work. I hope that chelation can be proven as effective therapy because I am have a hunch that heavy-metal toxicity has many effects not yet well understood (something Kem and I disagree upon - he has sources that say it causes thus and thus and I say that may be but the facts aren't in yet). The thing I really hate about the one web site he links to (European DU conference) is it talks about how the government is covering everything up. As if the government held the reins of all scienctific thought and research in the country. It is utter nonsense. I know a couple of non-government funded scientists who believe that DU does many of the things that Kem thinks, but want very much to actually prove it. Until the proof is in, it is merely conjecture.

You're welcome, KEM PUTZ-TRICK!

If we really want to get rid of Savage and his ilk, target the sponsors of his show. If a sponsor got a petition with 20,000-40,000 signatures protesting Savage and a threat to boycott its products, Savage would be muzzled or gone. Money talks.

Thank you for posting that link GRUMPY Old BAT.

Kudos to AFLAC for dropping their ad's from Savage's show. They were a great company to work for and they've done tremendous work on behalf of children, including the creation of a pediatric cancer center in Atlanta, GA. Buy an AFLAC plush duck at their website, www.aflac.com, all of the proceeds of which go to the center.

I hope that Michael Savage's show gets yanked. The man is a fool.

What an ass.
As to the cause of the rise in autism, there are several studies that indicate that autism is the result of a convergence of negative factors. One of those factors appears to be an external, environmental factor. I hear what everyone is saying about DU, and it really could be a factor, but, more likely, in my opinion, is high fructose corn syrup. In the 80's it began to appear in our processed foods and is now in a majority of them. It sweetens everything from cereal to soft drinks to medicines. There has never been any testing of it's effects on the human body that i've ever heard about. Certainly there are no long term studies as it is only about 20 years old. An interesting thing to take note of....many manufacturers are returning to sugar as a sweetener because it is now cheaper due to processing costs. Most notably, McDonalds has begun using real sugar in order to save money. As the energy crisis continues and cost begin to soar, there will be a return to those things that need LESS processing. It will be interesting to see what happens to autism rates as we return to more local, more natural foods.

Hi ~KENDPOTTER~ Good to hear from you again. Oops, you erred KEN, by stating those two links I offered were ones you had disagreed with me about previously. That first one I posted on July 22 at 12:09pm, was the first time I had ever posted it.

Oh, and much thanks for the support there from you and ~Elmysterio~ I was a bit surprised and a little hurt feelngs I guess, by the reply from RADIO TEC, ____ I must have touched a nerve, but with no intent to do so.

Some interesting things there in that new link KEN, but first I will state that the DU readings in Baghdad are near (600) times normal background level. (60) over would be quite alarmng, as near (zero) is preferable.

In that report, "A Doctor Durakovic, Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine of "Georgetown University" in Washington, no small potato there, was asked by the U.S. Government Veterans Administration, to LIE about the risks of DU in the human body. He had concluded, that DU does cause cancers etc, and "mutations of "genes" and it does kill." ___ He refused to lie.

It also states with figures provided by the VA, "that 73,000 Gulf War ground troops vets are already dead." Those are mostly people in the 25 to 50 years of age. ___ Hmmm, pretty young.

"Birth defects in Iraq are up 600% since the first Gulf War. ____ 225,000 U.S. ground troops have already recieved VA acknowledgement of service connected sickness due to Gulf War Syndrome, or PTSD."

This comment is not from that report but it is accurate. __ "PTSD" is a military generic medical term used for saying, "We know the person is ill with a variety of medical problems, but we do NOT KNOW what is wrong and we are not going to persue DU contaminatin as a cause, even though the patients symptoms are that of radiation poisoning of varying degrees."

This is in that report, figures given by the VA. "~1,620,900~ U.S soldiers have so far filed for disability."

Those vets are mostly not able to function, they are sick, very ill, and they are not being well treated, as it's mostly "PTSD" cases and no one is treating them for radiation sickness or anything else.

One more. DU particles will travel in the atmosphere to every "round corner" of the globe. DU will kill any living thing over time and it's half life killing power will still be active for 4.5 billion years. It's sort of a rather nasty poison.

And DU can and will cause "autism", among other reasons and before or after birth. I t also can cause Hodgkins disease, cancers, diabetes, serious birth defects such as brain malfunctions, missing limbs, etc. The acute rise of autism cases and childrens cancers and DU use are accuratlely connected by "TIME". ___ Follow the time frame. Coincidences often are not.

`

Oh, I'd better state that Jim's "PEERS" were NOT my wife, or I, or his brother and sisters. The four kids all knew one of them was adopted, but they didn't know which one was. His peers were co-workers, teachers, other kids, etc.

I'll let both Mr. Savage's crass remarks, and the works of Stephen Wiltshire, one of my country's top artists (if not the World's) speak for themselves. Stephen's Website is www.stephenwiltshire.co.uk

I apologize for bothering you ~RADIO TEC~. I did not intend to anger or annoy you, that in fact never entered my mind. Silly me. I do uderstand autism and how it effects the family, because our first adopted son was autistic.

James was killed on Christmas eve many years ago at the age of 20, when he ran out in front of a speeding truck. His pain and hurt for not being what was considered to be normal bdhaviour by his peers ended that evening.

Jim actually was a genius with math, and he memorized long mathamatical charts by just reading them once but he could not very well understand instructions or anything like a text book for scinece he read. It was very frustrating for him.

I did not offer those links for you so you could SUE anyone. What you do is none of my business. I thought they may be a source of interesting informatin, as you had asked what is causing this sudden and dramatic increase in Autism. The massive use of DU weaponry and testing ammo and bombs DU here in the United States and that sudden increase of autism cases correspond. DU is a strong possibility in my opinion and I'm far from being alone in that respect.

Once microscopic, gasious DU is in the body organs it will not show up in urine or blood tests, as stated in the articles I posted. There are actually over a million articles about DU on the internet. DU in the body MAY show up as a heavy metal with medical tests.

DU will not show up in medical tests if the autism was caused by genetic alterations which were in the male sperm. That too has beeen fairly well established, as there are so many cases where the father was in areas where DU partices were injested or inhaled but it is not proven as yet, so Peer reviews are not likey at this stage of the ongoing investigations.

If you don't wish to consider DU as a possibility it's Oklay with me and that of course is YOUR perogative. I am very sorry that I ever replied to you. You didn't state you didn't wish anyone to be so rude as to do so. I'll certaintly keep it in mind if you should ever show up here on a C/D thread again in the future.

first label them. then execute them. that net widens each and every week as the bush presidency winds down. or does it? now's the time, finally, to be afraid citizens.
very afraid. and we thought some disaffected arabs called al queda were scary? i wish.

copenhagen July 22nd, 2008 10:04 pm
Hmmm, didn’ you mean ‘pusillanimOUS?’ If you’re going to muddle around with big words, please use proper spelling.

" didn' " ? Is this the newly approved contraction for "did not"? " didn' " ? Got any more stones to throw from your glass house, there, "buddy" ? Got some problem with LITTLE words there, "buddy" ?

Here is a thought. Find out his sponsors and call one of their local offices, and talk to the receptionist, or whoever answers, as Savage talks. And, when you have been hung up on, call back and say this is what they are sponsoring. Ask to speak with the manager or CEO. Share the love with him/her.
Let me know how it goes.
peace,
st john

The fact that such people can drawa such large audiences doesn't reflect well on America.

Little Brother July 22nd, 2008 11:25 am: I love your post!

It's wrong to groove on Weiner's pain, but I can barely restrain myself after hearing his trash so many times over the years - too often from other know-nothings at work, a few days later. His mean spirit, the way he cuts off challenging callers, his illegitimate wealth, and his inability to EVER admit that he is/was wrong about anything actually serves to steam up my engines for positive action. But, oh, my blood pressure! ...Or was caused by my parents inadequately belittling me, too?

pasiphae: I paint what I see.

The man oozes vile.

Oh yeah he also hates Irish Americans and Senator Kennedy too:
http://www.hatehurtsamerica.com/?p=159

I have a hard time believing this moron gets as much media space as he does.

I think he says shit like this only because it's been way too long since somebody kicked the living shit out of him.

Maybe it's time for a refresher course on why he should shut his piehole.

Just a thought.

Not only does he hate innocent autistic kids, Michael Savage is a biggot who hates Muslims too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtY-JWahHQs

Wow Kent, hey Buddy, if you have hate in your heart, let it out man! Free speech is great, and that was quite the interesting choice of words there. 'Pusillanimaous...' Hmmm, didn' you mean 'pusillanimOUS?' If you're going to muddle around with big words, please use proper spelling.

Dr. Savage my ass. Doctor of mycology. HEY, WEINER! Meet me any time of your choosing, any place of your choosing, and any weapons of your choosing, you pusillanimaous asshole and I'll rip you a new asshole you fucking hatemonger. Come on asshole. Let's go.

Oh I don't know, I figure Dr. Savage made a good point. Just my two cents of course.

our brain chemistry is absolutely hammered to pieces by mercury-based vaccines, amalgam fillings, lead pollution, stray pesticides in air food and water, a thousand new polymers that have not beena part of Earth's evolution, some serious background nuclear radiation way above "healthy" levels, a complete smog of EMF's that are very disturbing to cellular process and all our natural biorhythms, and then this stupid rancid shock jock has the gall to suggest that we're still all suppposed to be diagnosed as "normal"?

GMAFB!

The only 'Savage' in the media I respect is DAN Savage.

He writes 'Savage Love', a gay/bi/TG/TS/alt sex advice column.

Dan Savage (and, yes that is his legal name) is the man who entered the term 'santorum' into the common lexicon to describe the residue of anal sex, named after the esteemed Rick Santorum, who Mike Savage quoted extensively.

Of the two Savages, Dan is the far better informed, erudite and sagacious.

Littlebrother,
"The real issue is how a pustulent pimple like Weiner, whose utterances are the amplified mutterings of a“ of a slobbering drunk or the irrational ejeculations of an unmedicated Tourette's Syndrome sufferer... He's simply a loud-mouthed snarling thug..who spews is ingnorant inanity to a loyal audience of like-minded lizard=brains – your local lumpenprole “wise guy...It's unfortunate that the statements and opinions oozing from his fould and filthy stump of a mind are dignified...

Wish I didn't have to dignify YOUR post by holding it up for reflection. Michael Savage could take lessons from YOU.

"Savage Nation"? Its key advertiser is probably the Pentagon. Sign up for a killing tour today!

Apparently, 'Doctor' Savage has come up with a breakthrough in medicine. I bet all those MD's, Phd's, mother's, teachers, and other assorted specialists have red faces now!

Here's a way to help Mr. Savage w/ his legal defense

His website takes legal defense fund donations via PAYPAL.

One could donate one just one penny

Paypal charges 1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD for each donation made

do the math
;)

It would be good if we could simply ignore fools. But Mr. Weiner aka Savage suffers no negative consequences while spouting his hate talk, and it is just that, on the publicly-owned airwaves. Families with autistic children must deal with social shunning and worse as it is. I know whereof that I speak. My autistic son is 34 with autism, severe MR and a major seizure disorder. I can still recall the way his brothers were ostracized in the neighborhood. There was only one household that would speak to me. I was told that the old-timers believed that those with disabled children were being punished by God. Oddly, after long years, I think I might have been blessed because I believe I am better for having him. As to causes, there may be a number of them. But heavy metals is a very strong suspect. My son had a 37 lead level when he was four which was an aha moment, realizing we'd all been poisoned by lead paint dust, he in utero. A very wise teacher told me that the brain has limited ways of behaving when injured. No savant he. But I loved it when he hummed tunes and even symphonies on perfect pitch. Though I cannot see him too often now because I'm caring for my mom in another state, I love his hugs and smiles when he sees me. He's been totally mute for a number of years. I ache to hear him say "Ma" again.

Hey Ken Potter, Long time no see... ;)

Which field are you 'very well educated' in? Autism or the effects of DU exposure?

elmysterio
"Radio_tec: Whoa, little hostile towards Kem. Unnecessarily I may add. Did you even look at the article Kem posted? It cites a number of different sources and references and can’t be counted out so casually."

elmysterio,

I am very well educated in the field and the authors of the report Kem keeps linking to are not. They make many assertions in the text of the report that are not backed up by the science they cite as references. I have told him that over and over, but it makes no difference. There is good peer-reviewed science being done on the subject but Kem's links aren't.

I have a feeling radio-tec is also pretty knowlegeable in the field and also views it as "junk science" and likely resents having wasted his/her time - But that is opinion, not fact.

Also, radio_tec: Kem Patrick didn't say that DU is the cause of YOUR child's Autism.. that could be anything... hell, it could even be something that YOU did while the child was inutero. What he is saying is that he thinks DU is one of the major causes of increased rates of autism. As well, it was very rude of you to shit on his expression of sympathy for you and your child. Expressions of sympathy are acknowledgments of the difficulties facing families with autistic children.

As well... I'd like to point out that Savage gets paid to be an asshole... to stir up controversy... drives up ratings. So, that's what he does. Yes, he's ignorant, and a class-a shithead... but he's doing what he's paid to do. Until there is NO market for these talking head windbags, they'll continue to plague the public airwaves.

Radio_tec: Whoa, little hostile towards Kem. Unnecessarily I may add. Did you even look at the article Kem posted? It cites a number of different sources and references and can't be counted out so casually.

savage is that in many of his comments, and maybe worse than i've heard before...but...

while his simplistic charge about parenting makes little sense, the overdiagnosis of autism is pretty much a fact...

the medical-disease-psychocratic industry jumps on bandwagons to sell therapies and medications in the marketplace and autism is only the latest case of profiting from illness, and the more illness diagnosed, the more profits...

he would not make that point, preferring to indulge in his career success, which is based on anything but criticism of a system and focused on identifying "them" as the root of all problems, whoever "they" might be, for the moment...

fs

I don't listen to the radio often. I have never even heard of this guy.

I disagree with him most definitely, but I was surprised at the number of parents willing to protest. It was perfectly appropriate, but I wish that we had that sort of reaction more in the U.S. for world news and political controversies. Seems like caring about current events isn't that important unless you're personally insulted. If policy changes happen, who cares. But dare someone simply say something outlandish, on all grounds go after them.

I'm just disappointed in the political apathy across this country.

'
Mr. Savage is a rude, crude, IGNORANT-SOB; who should be immediately returned to the ranks of the unemployed.

The Talk Radio Network should be BOYCOTTED, for sponsoring such "misinformation and stupidity".

We, the listening public, should either turn off the radio, or switch stations.........

.

I have a family member who has severe autism. There should be the most miserable place in hell for trash like Michael Savage. Picking on people that are the most vulnerable. Fuck you Michael Savage!

This ignorant, vicious egomaniac---sometimes I just can't believe what I'm hearing as I "slide by" his radio show here and there. Never heard anybody so choked with hate and self-love at the same time, so stupid and certain of himself (a nice match for GW Bush). Look up "cretin" in the dictionary and there's Savage's photo---but imagine, all that hatred in him is just a measure of the monsters behind him running the "RKO Hate Radio Network" 24/7....Featuring Limbaugh and Howie Carr besides. Gah.

Acting like a moron today will get you 400 million bucks.

On July 22nd, 2008 4:04 pm kittyc wrote:

"Radio_tec: I was not saying thimerosal causes autism. That would have been up to the courts to decide based on the evidence at hand. What I was trying to say though is that government was trying to preemptively protect the corporations from the expense of defending the litigation, and in so doing stifle people’s recourse to the courts for remedy."

kittyc, agreed. I believe that Frist did try to protect Eli-Lilly and that is what I believed when I learned about it all those years ago. kittyc, I believe you mean well. However autism dollars are limited and I don't want them to be spent on a wild goose chase. Like I said before if there is a causal link established in a peer reviewed study then sue then 'till they scream and give the money to the heart broken mothers who cry when their little Johnny doesn't get the services he needs from the schools because they don't have the money to put there kid in a private school like I can, or smears the walls with feces or runs out of the house and she gets a call from family services to interview her to see if she's not a "bad mom". They are truly in need of help.

On July 22nd, 2008 3:41 pm KEM PATRICK wrote:

"I do feel for you ~Radio Tec~. I sincerely do wish I could help.

After extensive studies of the DU issue for the past year and considering all of the pro and con opinions, I personally beleve DU is the “major” cause, and as the years pass autism will become far more epidemic.

A high percentage of the cases are of a parent who served in the Gulf Wars or anyone who live downwind from military firing and bomb ranges here in the U.S. If a parent is contaminated with DU, a variety of medical probllems can be passed onto a fetus, as DU contamination will alter genes.

Here is another link on the subject and as ~ARMCHAIR~ so well noted here at 2:40pm, the government and manufacturing companies of DU ammo and bombs will say and do anything to cover up that horrible mistake. [snip]""

KEM PATRICK what you are showing me is anything but a scientific peer reviewed study. All we have is what YOU believe. My wife and I devote our time, effort and considerable financial expense to SOLUTIONS not feelings.

Like I said before and it bears repeating I am not interested in a witch hunt. If this is the case, that DU does cause autism, we might as well shut down Johns Hopkins Hospital, The Houston Medical center, et al. Sorry but my son does not have DU poisoning. He has lead, mercury, and tungsten in his body in trace amounts. This is what several very expensive tests, costing several hundred dollars I paid out of my own pocket and interpreted by a board certified doctor, told me. Now if you can cite a peer reviewed study by a respected medical institution then I'm all ears. Anything else is Area 51, X-Files pseudo-science.

Oh, neither my son nor I need anyone’s sympathy. I used that admission to illicit understanding not sympathy.

And here I thought Bush was autistic too. Thanks for clearing it up Savage Wiener.

Cowards hide behind sun glasses. That, and he's damned ugly - inside and out. Has to employ the name *savage* so he sounds ferocious, tough, his definition of a *man."

Avoid all of them ~JJ~.

I wonder what drugs Savage is on, to make him so hateful. I wish he'd share that knowledge, so we can avoid what afflicts him so terribly.

I have listened to his self-serving rants on the drive home, waiting to hear an intelligent comment. Nothing.

Today I find out his last name is WEINER.

It's all starting to make sense.

Radio_tec: I was not saying thimerosal causes autism. That would have been up to the courts to decide based on the evidence at hand. What I was trying to say though is that government was trying to preemptively protect the corporations from the expense of defending the litigation, and in so doing stifle people's recourse to the courts for remedy. There is more we don't know about autism than what we do know, and I think any number of factors will ultimately be found to be involved in its cause, DU, environmental pollution, genetic dispostion, but there will be a time when we do know. Someone like Savage though just perpetuates our ignorance and confusion. I'm sorry about your son's condition. I have a nephew with autism, so I also know first hand what torment you are going through in dealing with it.

I guess this is just proof that Savage is the one with severe behavioral problems and brain damage.

And just think how many hundreds of thousands of vicious white trash hang on his every word. God bless America!

‘Don’t act like a moron. You’ll get nowhere in life.’ - I guess Mr. Savage did not have a father around to tell him that either.

I was out on the town one night and there was a drunk sitting on the sidewalk being obnoxious and yelling at people that went by. Almost all of the people that passed him, and heard him, ignored him. I guess that they did not take him seriously because of who he was. Why is it that when we have some idiot on the radio say something ridiculous we just don't treat him the same way?

Consider the source, if s/he is not an authority then ignore him/her. . .