I know what you mean sojrnrz, the ditto-heads around here can find a reason to trash anybody and everybody. It has really been getting bad lately.

I think it is funny how people can blast Al Gore as he works to promote awareness/action on global warming. I guess these folks are doing more than he is, so they feel entitled to criticize. I don't know all there is to know about the subject, but I am in my 60s and have been a natural-born deep ecologist all my life. I wish there were more "equally significant" figures as Gore doing the work. I applaud anyone trying to save our asses, even though I am a little doubtful about our ability to save the planet's sentient beings. I guess we'll just sit here and grouse, since we can't fiddle :)

jerome irwin July 20th, 2008 4:37 pm
"Read again the real shepherds like "Toast", "Sierra", "Zamboni", "Beavercleaver". "Bubbasouth", "Shuoshuokan", "Salwa", ", 'Think For Yourself", "Dogley", "marias P", "Yours Truly", "webtalk, "formernadarvoter", "Karlof1″, "Words Are Important" "Axeye" and "jsc" They need others to second and third and fourth them."

Ah yes Jerome, the sages and prophets DO NEED their DITTO-HEADS!

Jerome, these people you idolize would crucify Bobby Kennedy on the alter of "lesserevilism" just as quickly as they would any other Democrat.

shuoshuokan July 22nd, 2008 5:40 am
You have made Rush Limbaugh and his followers in the chaos movement proud!

shuoshuokan July 22nd, 2008 7:32 pm
"Of course the "percentage of evil" used in my previous post are not verifiable statistics. They are not meant to be such. They are only a way to simplify the idea that as you are caught in the cesspool's deep-shit...."

Not only are the percentages not verifiable statistics, your whole diatribe was a bullshit-smokescreen, designed to further the false argument of "lesserevilism". However, I can understand your need to simplify the pabulum propaganda, to make it easier for the sheeple like Jerome to digest, and later regurgitate.

MikeBinSC, or is it Mike Bin Laden? You are "laden" with crap right up to your eyeballs so that you can't see what is there just four feet ahead of you.

You said, "The argument is not about lesser-evil, it is about making the best choice possible to move the country, and the world, in a more peaceful and more progressive direction, away from the destination of jack-booted fascism that we are currently headed toward." My God! It is the very same crap that is used by the Neo Con gangsters to spread miseries among the innocent Americans and other peoples all over the world.

Of course the "percentage of evil" used in my previous post are not verifiable statistics. They are not meant to be such. They are only a way to simplify the idea that as you are caught in the cesspool's deep-shit, the present American condition, you are still in deep shit however hard people like MikeBinSC might wriggle.

Great post above, MikeBinSC.

The fact that these people resort to name calling and childish mocking shows that they have no real point to make.

Saying that Gore has been in the pocket of Occidental Petroleum all his life is a blatant lie.

Al Gore's father owned stock in the company. Al Gore became the executor of his father's estate after his death, and the stock has since been sold.

Al Gore has never owned stock in this company.

So what exactly are you trying to do here bubbasouth?

What is it that you really don't like about Al Gore? I'm guessing you don't like the idea of breaking from fossil fuels.

Listen carefully Jerome, as one of your sages has just spoken, and I am sure that you are salivating like a "Pavlovian dog", waiting for his food. Exercise your brain Jerome. Open and examine closely, the "shoo-shoo-in-a-can", that has just been foisted on us as a reason to vote Nader or third party, and you will find it contains NO REAL LOGIC OR REASONING.

First of all Jerome, shuoshuokan and your other shepherds are pushing a false dichotomy, that they have manufactured and fine-tuned, in the whole concept of "lesserevilism". Your prophet uses the word evil 14 times in the above diatribe to describe the presidents of both parties over more than 4 decades, and possible future presidents as well.

The percentages used have no basis in logic, and have apparently been pulled out of either thin-air or out of their asses. In either event, they dont't pass the "smell-test", and are about as usefull in assessing our situation as teats on a boar hog!

As Orwell was well aware, as are those involved in marketing the Republican Party and right-wing positions, the labels and terms used to couch an argument can make all the difference needed to pull the sheeple (yes, I'm talking about you here Jerome) around by the nose.

The argument is not about lesser-evil, it is about making the best choice possible to move the country, and the world, in a more peaceful and more progressive direction, away from the destination of jack-booted fascism that we are currently headed toward.

What is the history of the two party "democratic" political doctrine called "lesser-of-two-evil", or LOTE Let's see. First, you have Nixon, 75% evil, followed by Ford, 50% evil, then Reagon, 65% evil, then Carter 50% evil, then Bush Senior 70% evil, then Clinton, 65% evil, then WHAM!, you got George Bush, 90% evil.

Do you really believe with the Corporate American system in place a 60% evil Obama will be followed by one 50% evil, then one 40% evil, then another 30% evil, and the next would be 20% evil? Sheeple Alert! Things in the real world do not work out that way, buddy. Maybe after Obama, you will get one who is 95% evil.

As long as you do not break the mold history will repeat itself

Good comment jpx.

Wake up Jerome! It is obvious even to the most casual observer that YOU, Jerome, are the sheeple being flocked, as you patronize, grovel before, and pay homage to this group of false prophets that YOU consider to be the authority on this contested issue of "lesserevilism".

Jerome, you need to exercise your own brain and not blindly accept what is passed to you from your authority figures as truth, but rather to seek and accept the truth you find as the authority.

I voted for Nader in 2000, what do i have to show for it? Politically what did it accomplish? Look I don't discount the criticisms of democrats, but when your building a house you don't start with the roof, you start with the foundation. If your in this for change then be prepared for progress by increments which requires patience. If your in it so you can sqwauk about revolution and feel dandy about your spotless morality then by all means vote for Nader. (though if you look at him with a cynics eye he too is far from spotless, to protect your virginal political purity you might need to vote for yourself!)

We do need, above all else, to get this current bunch of neo-conservative criminals out of the executive this round. (that means no McCain) Once done we can rail against the new "lesser" evil for more change but at least will be a step in the right direction instead of losing ground.

Nobody's perfect, nobody is clean, but Obama has at least got a conscience and he listens. At times he actually appears to be humble to his humanity and his mistakes which is more than I can say for either Bush, McCain, or Nader.

Poor MikeBin is the kind of sheeple thatd always has to justify his or her reasons for voting for the lesser of evil, regardless if it still is evil, because to open the themselves ujp to a different consciousness is too painful and too much work.

These are the sheeple who, like Hillary, criticize the visonary's and argu,e for the pragmatics of what is onlhy possible within the limitations of the system.

The sages and prophets that the MikeBin's of the world denigrate are those who, to paraphrase Bobby Kennedy, say, "Some see things as they are and ask why, others dream of thingas as they could be and ask why not!"

Like I said before, never the twain shall meet.

Was Nancy Pelosi's maiden name "Petain?"

Not shepherds Jerome, but more like sages or prophets. Yes, that's what they are. So pure of heart, thought and deed are they, I'm sure they have never compromised their virtues and made a choice of the lesser of evils. At least, maybe not this afternoon. Give me a break!

Nancy Pelosi. Pfft!

Jerome Irwin says, "real shepherds like "Toast", "Sierra", "Zamboni", "Beavercleaver". "Bubbasouth", "Shuoshuokan", "Salwa", ", 'Think For Yourself", "Dogley", "marias P", "Yours Truly", "webtalk, "formernadarvoter", "Karlof1″, "Words Are Important" "Axeye" and "jsc""

I sure am glad I'm not a sheeple in that flock! Maybe you should give up your day-job and get on the "Nader Express", you know, the one that is tethered to the "Straight Talk Express", and put your show on the road. Spread the good news, "Nader is back, and he's mad as hell this time, and he's not going to take it anymore! We could actually go all the way this time, and get on the ballot in most states!"

Some people get because they always got it(i.e the real visionary shepherds). Others don't get it and never will all the sheep and sheeples). And never the twain will meet.

Historically, the real visionar shepherds have only constituted a very small percentage of the people 8 to 10% on a bad day, 10 to 15 maybe even 20% on a very good day.

Read again the real shepherds like "Toast", "Sierra", "Zamboni", "Beavercleaver". "Bubbasouth", "Shuoshuokan", "Salwa", ", 'Think For Yourself", "Dogley", "marias P", "Yours Truly", "webtalk, "formernadarvoter", "Karlof1", "Words Are Important" "Axeye" and "jsc"

They need others to second and third and fourth them.

But sheeple like KMan2 never will get it no matter what truth is put before them.

The most we can do for this is to do what "52880" suggests and vote vor Nadar. If, say, 20% or more were to suddenly show up in the statistics as votes for Nadar it might have some positive effect on the sheep and sheeple and wake up a few more percent among them.

Focus people. Don't be distracted by these cretins. These are criminals. You think they are going to "save the planet"? What they want to save is themselves and their friends.

Vote Nader. He'll do the things we want done. What a sight THAT would be!

karlof1: Another twist on the proverb is "A people ignorant of the past cannot hope to make their future great" Don't know the source. Was quoted by a history professor many years ago.

Just read that Pelosi, et.al., in the dead of night a few days ago, got rid of the "lobbying reforms" that the Dems introduced when they first took over Congress last year. No more need to disclose anything apparently.

All these ideas cost money and most people are already short on that...
There is only one way to change the corrupt political situation and the greedy corporate structure in the US.
"Strike" It was done in Czechoslovakia, and the government collapsed!
The people of the US could crush the political machine and the greedy corporations in one month by going on strike.
It would require stocking up on food and water and some courage.
For one month no one goes to work, no one buys anything, no one watches TV, no one listens to the radio or goes on the internet. Everyone stays home and enjoys a peaceful time with family and friends, using none or minimal electricity, no phones, no cars, no shopping, no restaurants, bars or movies, no paying bills, (there would be no one to collect the bills anyway), no spending money for any purpose.
It would cost every big business, all state and federal institutions 1/12 of their annual budget, and would force them to change or collapse, because a second strike would be even more devastating.
Of course, there are too many cowards, greedy, lazy, indifferent,and ignorant people in the US to ever get this accomplished.
So, we are truly doomed!

Both Gore and Pelosi are sellouts to the progressive movement. And by progressive I mean where a government acts for the greater common good, rather than handing everything to the corporate elite on a silver platter.

The lawlessness displayed by our elected leaders by failing to uphold the constitution is a moral disgrace that is contrary to basic tenets of democracy, justice, and liberty.

so it goes

Vote Third Party

Absolutely no enegry production currently made by humans on the planet can be "carbon free"--it is absolutely impossible, until there comes a time when every component of an energy system and its total manufacturing and servicing chains can be done with non-carbon electrical generation and/or carbon neutral biofuel.

That a War Criminal like Gore gets cheers and a standing ovation whilst the other War Criminal Pelosi gets mild derision proves well the Nation of Sheep appellation. The response Gore received is indicative of a people unable to remember their history and are thus condemned to relive it, as we are today and likely will tommorrow.

kman2 has certainly reached the status of a sheeple.

One of the sheep is Markos of dailykos. His site has turned into an Obama cheerleading squad, appeasers of the corporate elite, rather than a site that supports actually Democratic policies.

shadowdancer,

your postings here are much appreciated. the true history of the USA is the (usually) unspoken context of everything else that is happening. thanks for coming back somewhat regularly to try to remind us. if "we" can't address the full reality of our world, then our attempts to address particular parts are like fantasies we spin for ourselves...

toast,

thanks for your posts the past two days about Al Gore's (non)references to Nuclear Power, and "clean" coal. lots of folks are very excited about the possibility of a massive investment in "renewables" and "alternatives", and Gore's leadership on the issue serves as a facade for misleading the people yet again...

The Impeachment Hearing Next Week Is The Opportunity Netroots Has Been Waiting For

"To do what?"

"Turnabout time."

"How?"

"We inundate Congress with Emails demanding the impeachment of President George Bush."

"Anything else?"

"Daily vigils around the district offices of every congressperson who's against impeachment."

"And say Congress does impeach the president, then what sort of world?"

"Empowered by our having pulled this off, it'll be up to us."

Support Cindy Sheehan to oust Nancy Pelosi and send a true progressive voice to Congress.

http://www.cindyforcongress.org/

to all concerned,

"Netroots Nation?"

And the writer, along with the rest of the so-called "Roots" withstood the announcement that protestations would lead "to the arrest," and no one walked out then and there when all of them should have illuminates more than the tiring pablum left by the writer. Ugh, what's his name?
WoW! Cummins I am really impressed...HARHA

"Netroots? What Netroots?," asked the Oligarchy in command of ALL and ANY political outlet in the good ole' US of Fascism, A."

"Next stupid article of somnolence, please." said the 3 little pigs, as the rest of us slept at the trough of indulgence.

"But I wrote all these articles to "awaken" them!" said the first piggie.

And the "Big, Bad Wolf" blew his house down.

"But I wrote all these books about what everyone knew from the articles!" said the scond little piggie.

And the "Big, Bad Wolf" blew his house down.

"But I am elected by the people to be their representative in the Big House of the U.S. Congress and you, Mr Big Bad Wolf cannot blow this House down.

The Big Bad Wolf tried and tried to blow the Big House down, but he could not. He, and she was finally arrested by the Homeland Security Police of Lilliputia, brutally interrogated by the "Speaker of the House," found his balls being cooked on a T.V. show about exotic foods, and all members of the "duly elected" government in "plausible denial" that the Constitution existed and, therefore, that the U.S. existed, but that there were libraries containing laws protecting, and encouraging the growth, of Corporations definitely existed and that those voluminous volumes were there for all to see.
Now, I realize that last simile was rather long for most of you to comprehend, as it is with most laws, I am, personally going to "boil it down" for you.

In the last 40 years of this so-called democratic republic 50 to 54% of the eligible voters of this country voted for whatever garbage was puked up for the unwashed to vote for. This means somewhere around 27 to 28% of the eligible voters elected, via the sieve referred to as the electoral 'pig sty' college, to this historical place we find ourselves.
Did you, really, did you honestly believe there was something called the "Netroots" or Netsroots" or whatever that would be any different?
I rest my case on the premise that we no longer exist. The species is no more. The sheep rule by proxy.

here's me listening to you Commondreams.org leftwing purists:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If I were Al Gore I would not want to be anywhere close to the Dems just to make sure that my message wasn't being confused with the Dems b.s. rhetoric.

First, we have the two political parties who are totally controlled by corporations and among other things build cages for dissenters during their political conventions.

Then two examples of major movements, namely, MoveOn and Daily Kos, whose mission was supposedly to give more voice and input to the public, heretofore totally ignored by the MSM and politicians, seem themselves to be tightly controlled with info either flowing from the top down, MoveOn, or as my understanding in the case of the Daily Kos only certain types of opinions get an airing.

Finally, we read about a Netroots convention, supposedly the antidote to the parties & MSM treatment of the public, where the same repressive methods against free speech are used, keeping everything sanitary and superficial, thus lacking in any real substantial discussion of political reality.

Even, a site such as the Grassroots/Netroots mentioned above still pussy-foots around the political reality. Their piece on "War and Peace" starts by telling us that people are against the Iraq war because of the exhorbitant monetary costs. Would anyone be against that war if it cost no dallars but only for the fact that we have destroyed an entire country and decimated its population because of the naked greed on the part of some either to control its oil or to usurp its water and land, adding yet more wounds to our collective soul, not to mention the mounting number of returned wounded and dead on this end.

Everything said above and more about Gore & Palosi is true. But this is long enough already.

Samboni said, "The Democratic Party is not fit to wipe my ass", or something to that effect. Actually they have no time for you because they are busily wiping the arse of the Republicans. They form a dream-team with one doing the shitting and the other the wiping.

Pathetic. Gore in the pocket of Occidental Petroleum all his life, now he is post-epiphany Saint Al. Yeah. And Pelosi? Disgusting, pandering hag. As Arundhati Roy figured out, these Woodstocky gatherings are ignored and brushed aside by the real power-players. Just people wanting face-time and rooty-toot. Yuk!

"Gore calls on the assembled netroots to educate the public and get behind his campaign to generate 100% of the nation's electricity from renewable sources of energy within 10 years."
This is a repeat performance under many other topics...the public's waaaaay out ahead of the career policians on renewable energy. Notice how they always need more action from the slaves? more money? more letterwriting? more patience? more time? and yes, again, more money? There's not a fully developed adult brain in all of Wahington DC, but as leaders, they follow the script of Nancy Pelosi/Al Gore and read their condescending lines anyway. Maybe it'll take a street revolution for them to lead, follow or get the hell outa way. These people are so constipatingly pathetic!

I chose not to go, so that I could stay home and make improvements in my own energy grid. Bah Humbug to politicians playing with politics!

Pelosi SUCKS, and SUCKS emphatically. What a liberal San Francisco establishment whore. Stiff, robot-like, elitist in a bad way. I'm sure Cokie Roberts and Pelosi get along famously :-D

The democrats are far worse than the Republicans.

No question who runs this country (Republicans).

....it sure as hell ain't friggin clowns like Pelosi!

The democratic party is not fit to wipe my ass with.

Both Pelosi and Gore have deep ties to the corporate world and live "above" the average American (like so many other in Congress and the Senate with the exception of a handful).

"Clean Coal"

yeah, right!!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Stephen Hawking expressing his concerns about Global Warming turning the earth into a Firey Venus a couple years ago in an Article on the Net?

A Climatologist named Hansen addressing your Nation's Govt about stopping the use of coal as the Earth is at it's Tipping Point or Point of No Return?

All this only 113 years of rounding up the last of the Native Tribes who were placed in living prisons called Reservations. Huh?

The Earth at the Point of No Return??? And yet in mathematics if human beings had lived at Complete Zero like the Native Tribes used to live then human beings would neither destroy themselves by their own hands with either their modern day weapons, or their own destruction of the Earth?

Good post Ronnie. My opinion is that Pelosi has proven time and again to be the absolute worst choice possible for House leadership... and if possible Reid a close runner-up in the Senate. Cowards and traitors.

"Gore calls on the assembled netroots to educate the public and get behind his campaign to generate 100% of the nation's electricity from renewable sources of energy within 10 years."

Although I wasn't there, and more importantly, that's what I wanted to hear... I don't believe that is what he said... at least, not in his speech on energy... think you got spun.

"Today I challenge our nation to commit to producing 100 percent of our electricity from renewable energy and truly clean carbon-free sources within 10 years."

Part of that 100 percent he referred to *IS* nuclear... he just spun that into the "truly clean carbon-free sources" category (along with fantasyland clean coal). Of course nuclear is anything BUT "clean"... but because it does not add directly to the carbon problem in the same respect as burning fossil fuels (plenty of indirect carbon additions however), it only takes a little spinning to make you believe that he isn't including nuclear into the mix. In fact, he admitted so in an interview after the speech according to a NYT article:

"He said he envisioned nuclear power retaining its current share of domestic electricity generation, about 20 percent."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/washington/18gore.html

Now... there's the second spin... He believes nuclear should retain its 20 percent share. Don't make the mistake of reading that statistic to mean that he believes that nuclear generation should remain fixed at the current level of generation, just that it should remain fixed at the *proportion* of generation... and since electrical demand will grow exponentially, that of course means that the nuclear generation sector will be adding many more plants to maintain the 20 percent proportion.

It's easy to lie with statistics. Gore has always been an advocate of nuclear generation. That hasn't changed. Don't believe otherwise.

Definitely sheep.