Well first get past the idea that you're wasting your time if your resistance efforts do not pan out immediately - make it a matter of principle plus personal benefits. So you reduce your income to reduce your taxes, and make up by becoming more self-sufficient, and bartering, and explaining to people why you're doing it - this encourages them to join up, and really it's a grass roots movement we need to build, each of the grass roots has to start thinking for him/herself again, taking responsibility. Most generally, learn to spot all the power centers and deny them your exchange/association. And joining rallies and marches, writing to papers/reps - it's all good. Just don't expect immediate results. It doesn't matter if it takes a week or ten years for the fed to surrender - the changes have to start at the grass roots. Besides, the benefits start to flow immediately to the people who join the movement.

My brothers and sisters, we can change this. We are true patriots with ALOT of power, contrary to what alot of cowards claim. Yes Klever, we can surely take those scumbags out. Never say never. They are human like us but better organized because of thier " Think Tanks ". We can and need to form our own think tanks with immediate and urgent agendas. As I stated in my blog above, we are powerful because of who we are. Why should we give in??? These scum of the earth can and WILL be removed from our lives. They are a diseased organism and need to be gotten rid of.
Sleep well my people. Change is coming - real change - not the Obama type change.

We Get Congress To Impeach George Bush & There'll Be No Iran War

"How we going to do that?"

"We flood Congress with Emails, telephone calls during next week's House Judiciary Committee hearings on Impeachment."

"Anything else?"

"We hold mass rallies outside the district offices of every congressperson who's opposed to impeachment."

"But faced with impeachment, wouldn't Bush be even more likely to order an attack upon Iran?"

"He wouldn't dare."

"Why not?"

"Empowered by our having forced Congress to begin impeachment proceedings, we'll be the deciders."

"And Congress."

"Once again our servants, like the Constitution says."

"And our government?"

"Of, for and by the people."

"block I95 and CNN will be there in a heartbeat."

I-95 is blocked half the time anyway.

Wow. looks like we're gettin ready for Armageddon. Lots of us saw this coming in the 60's and had to leave the country so as to actually live a while without the onrushing fascist nightmare constantly demoralizing us....Now we're gettin old and wonder if we'll be asked to help re-invent "Amerrika" after the revolution....hey its been one helluva ride huh.

PROTEST? If you don't get out in the street and do it regularly, you simply are missing some of the best fun around....the chance to talk with strangers about the end of our little civilization! Meeting folks who actually care about the morality of torture! Deep analysis with wise old dudes! Etc.Etc. At least, I would respectfully request that no disparagement be done to those few who stand out there facing the rest of the apathetic little Fascist sympathizers who have somehow never been able to reflect on what the facts of our situation really mean....

Who the f..k cares if we can prove that "protest didn't stop the war..."? Rome wasn't built in a day and it won't come down on color TV. Nobody can say what tomorrow brings and mystery is the spice which makes getting up in the morning exhilerating....sweet dreams folks!!

JCrumb: Gee, Where did you Go? I asked you what you do with all the TAXES your sales web-site COLLECTS.....and you dis-appeared!

Awwwee....

Too tough a Question you hypocrite? Eat your rants.

I really wanted to BUY a MATERIAL THING, from you too JCrumb....but the TAXES made it too expensive!

The core of capitalism is PROFIT (rooted in "advantage" and so rooted in "DIS-advantage" of others). War is the means to maximum short-term profit (and of course to world-destruction). Nothing is going to change until peace and protest movements start affecting that word and the machine built for it. How? By WALKING OUT of work when your hours have pulled your weight in the world. The down-spike in profits will hurt the monsters where they truly live and awaken people to the fact that nothing works without their own labor. THAT is where the real power is---and what we'll gain is a new world like that of post-imperial Europe, whose every nation tried to dominate the world and learned the hard way that it's much easier/better to enjoy each day of life. How long will it take you, Americans? How many dead children do you have to see first? WALK OUT ON PROFIT---Work to pull your weight and no more. And the world will have to adjust to YOU, not the other way around. You cannot reason with psychotics---only hurt them where they live as you can, with your own hands and feet. And then you will find that life is about "other things" than advantage and status over neighbors....http://ancientgreece-earlyamerica.com

interesting, but long clip...meditation groups passing this around....topic: "healing ecology"...speaker david loy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77mGxHlV8nM

So, impotent liberals, how
did those NATIONWIDE PROTESTS
to stop US imperialism go;
stop any warmongering lately?

Most Sincerely, Dwayne Chandler.

Many good ideas. Some very emotional but right on.

We might have to shower, shave, make ourselves presentable & beleivable and run for local office and take over. Then we run for higher office and so on. There are enough pissed-off people to vote for someone who finally makes sense instead of feeding us the same old bullshit.

It's really cathartic to blog at the keyboard but taking positive action is tough.

MLK never said "I have a complaint or a bitch", as we know, he had a dream and he followed it till his death protesting peacefuly. Maybe we can do it withour the seemingly fruitless protests by joining the system & voting no!!!!.

I seem to remember that if you re-file your W-4 with your employer, you can increment your dependents to 99 (?), and thus avoid giving the creeps in govt. your money for the rest of the year, at least until you file your next return.

This may put you in a class where they demand your 'quarterly deposits' for the following year, but at least, this would deny the money to GW.

Well I see this has gotten many talking and some who quit...JCrumb are you sure "they" wouldn't just print and borrow money anyway? And you haven't answered lisa3210peace...seems her question is valid. Dwayne, the most famous pacifist was a little brown man by the name of Gandhi, he and his followers 'en masse' took on and overcame the most powerful empire (England) of the time and acheived Independance for India.
Some of his tenents were...that, Wealth without work...Pleasure without Conscience...Science without Humanity....Knowledge without Character....Politics without Principle...Commerce without Morality...and Worship without Sacrafice were problems which needed to be changed and overcome. And Gyro I like the lighten up maybe though enlighten up might serve us as well........lover of peace is it not still our choice to live in fear or not.......Surrender are you talking with others about being a part of 'en masse'? ThomasMc....I agree vote for anything other than the two sides of the same coin neither dems or repubs and if "we the people" do it 'en masse' we may once again become "WE THE PEOPLE"......but I disagree that protests 'en masse' won't help facilitate change I agree with Jack Nelson Stewart NON VIOLENT.......what percentage of "WE", who on an arranged day took off, no work, no shopping maybe gathered across this nation to mourn the loss of the Constitution, maybe stating that if the politicians won't do their jobs well guess what neither are we, what kind of numbers do you suppose it would take to make a difference? There are those out here who if they thought it would make a difference are willing to do this even though they can't afford it. Change this says we have many knowledgeable folk who believe.....maybe someone knows how to set up a web site where we might agree on a day then "WE" could see what kind of numbers would be willing to JOIN in ....arcing28 come join 'en masse' we'll happily include you and maybe this would get your Reps attention....Skokulan we can make our own media U tube for instance isn't that right revenge girl? Or, does our power scare you? are you afraid, you shouldn't be for all we would be doing is talking truth to those in power. now, why is it wrong or hopeless to oppose another war? I can be reached at Peterntomsbro@aol.com

Other participants in this discussion: How many of your friends, family, co-workers, church members or civic groups feel the same way you do? You all have sincere convictions that change is necessary to overcome what has become a polorized nation totally stuck in a 'what-to-do-mode?' If roughly 80% of the population thinks that we are on the wrong track this should give us a lot of confidence that a broad movement to support change would be sucessful. However, each and everyone would have to make a compromise: stop the battering of each others ideas, which is childish, and concentrate on all of the positive suggestions. Bad Language and rudeness has never accomplished anything, except perhaps bad feelings. Go back and reread these postings and from each one write down the one positive thing you gleaned from each entry. It makes quite an interesting list and the beginning of a good platform for reform with everyone contributing sound thought and commom sense. This is way too productive to give up and way too meaningful for pettiness. Get back to work and keep the ideas coming!

Is this really what demonstrating means in the 21st century? Large numbers of people standing still for five minutes?
In 2002/2003, millions of people marched against the Iraq war, and it still went ahead, so now we are going to raise the stakes - we are all going to stand still!!!??????
Please let me off this planet ASAP.

Nationwide protests on August 2nd. Join one near you or create your own and list at
http://www.stopwaroniran.org/aug2.shtm

I've really enjoyed reading everybody's comments. You know if each and everyone of us could come up with one,small thing to do everyday, or when the opportunity arises to screw non violently with the system, or the powers that be in Washington and the Media that we won't take their crap anymore, it might start a cycle of change. I have two suggestions to try. Both of them would not cost us a thing, it would not hurt anybody but the FatCats in Washington DC, and in Chicago, and Phoenix and all the major Media outlets in the country know things are about to change and its us the people who are going to bring it about.
1.) When a Polling Company calls you listen attentively ans wer the qeustions until 1/2 through, then hang up. The joy o this is that they cannot count a completed poll, the candidate still has to pay for it and its wastes their time and money. Plus it does not give them the knowledge of what we are thinking or how we are voting!

2.) Stop all communications with the media, no letters to the editors, no contributions to story lines, no phone calls to them, shut them out of our lives, freeze them out of your life, believe me they'll notice.

DREAM WARRIOR July 19 11:20 p.m.

Protesting, signing petitions, writing letters, and not buying a lot of garbage are really all the options I have available.

You don't know anyone that lives in an apartment building in a large city, do you? That's where I live, in CHICAGO, and let me tell you about it. My neighbors: mostly foreign, too fearful or disinterested. (One I know is intent on making money for a few years - and then going home to start a small business. I think his roommate has the same goals.) Some don't speak English well enough for me to communicate with beyond the fundamentals. There's an elderly couple that couldn't/wouldn't be bothered to come out of their apartment when we had a fire scare in the building. That's how I met most of the people that I have met: by running from apartment to apartment, banging on the doors, trying to find out whether someone had left the gas on under something on the stove. Two others I met in the laundry room: nice enough people, but not easy to converse with because of the language barrier.

Grow things? Fish and hunt? In Chicago? We don't even have an unpaved back yard. And what there is, isn't large enough for 20 people.

Chicago is the home of apathy! I went to an Impeachment site - at one of the national organizations - and there was only one person in my district signed up! She wanted to play a DVD at a local bar to get people interested. How far do you think that would have gone?

Every once in a while, a few people from an anti-war (and pro-impeachmentthat) group put up a small stand near the end of one of the commuter train lines - (the "Brown" line) - and they try to hand out flyers and talk to passers-by. They have a large sign, asking drivers to honk for impeachment. Very few people will do that much. If you can't get more than a few people to make the effort to honk a car horn, how do you get them to do anything?

As for not paying taxes, here in Chicago, a lot of people seem to be know, even now, that the police and the FBI combined couldn't take down Al Capone - but the IRS did! That makes one hell of an impression... Doesn't matter how it's done, the idea of not paying taxes scares the bejeepers out of most.

I'd love to get rid of AT&T (SBC) - but what can I replace it with? I've called every telephone company I can find, and either they don't seve my area or they are closed to new customers. (I thought breaking up the Bell System was supposed to end telephone monopolies...)

I had thought about the possibility of going in with someone on a small rural property, but I couldn't find anyone that wanted - or could figure out how - to leave the city. They can't take their jobs with them. The longer it takes, the less money I have to do it: I'm not working, and I continue to pay rent.

No, I am not arguing your points: they are good, but they cannot apply to everyone. (I wish it were otherwise, but there you have it.)

- - - - -
AVION 20 12:25

You have got it: one of the worst things that happened, early on, was the court declaring that corporations are 'persons.' Far too many people shrugged that one off.

- - - - -

Oh, and to those that have suggested it: I will not get rid of my television. How would I play my DVDs or cassettes? (I need some respite from 'reality.') I have refused to attach the rabbit ears, though, since I moved 7 months ago; and, obviously, if I won't watch it for free, I am not getting cable or satellite.

With so many people dissatisfied with the way things are and, if they keep up these conversations and discussions it is bound to be contagious. I have heard things repeated back to ome that I commented on months ago and now people are agreeing with me although they didn't way back when. I think there is a powerful silent movement. It may be slowly producing results we have yet to see. Evidently the only people in the 20% who feel we are on track are the ones w/pocket being filled with taxpayer funds. With odds of 20% against 80% I would say those of us 'dissenters' have the upper hand. We just have to figure out when to hold them and when to fold them. There is too much good to be overcome by greed and selfserving government elected and nonelected officials. What was it we all learned in typing???...now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their party.....maybe change that to 'come to the aid of their New party.'

P. S. Start a list with everyone adding one or two suggestions.
#1. Election reform

#2. Peace through positive karma.

Volunteer somewhere, anywhere, to help anyone. Someone near to me said that volunteering is truly giving of one's self because you can't get back the time you give to someone else. Too many people give stuff, and not enough give time. Be it at a school, helping tutor children, or at an old folks home, listening to elders; the time spent is worth it in the end.

There is too much negative in this world, and that negative only begets more negative. Donate to the collective positive.

Hope is NOT a lost art...only a forgotten one.

Then this must be acknowledged to wit: At least the following will definitely be p*ss*d off; Norman Podhoretz, Joe Lieberman, Frederick Kagan, Bill Kristol, the AEI and Israel.

Will such postures be producing more positive karma than just protestations opposing war with Iran?

yknot...why not...add a positive to the list instead of negative comments...just a thought. You wouldn't even be posting after reading the above comments if you were not seriously interested, so evidently you have given all of the issue serious consideration and had a few thoughts on how to make positive changes. Share them!

i say, what ever anybody can do, be it large or small is a good step, and they should be encouraged. you just never can tell what action will be the tipping point. I been fighting this monster since the 60's and I will continue till my last breath.

annabelle

Negative comments usually are in the eyes of the beholder. Facing reality is the first step in any journey that is worth taking. If you are seriously interested in a serious consideration how about the following; in the November election vote against all the incumbents regardless of party affiliation.[does not that read too much like a negative comment?]

yknot Positive comment #3
Vote against all incumbents regardless of party affiliation in November. thank you..that wasn't so hard, was it. Great contribution!!!

lisa3210peace
I'm not sure about Jcrumbs state but in PA sales tax is paid to the state not the federal government .Except in cases where the criminal state governments have cut deals w/ Walmart and the like that allow them to collect sales tax and keep it as profit.

The Iraq War of 2003 was illegal. It is now legal. Germany & France were against, Both are now in favour. Speaker Pelosi was against. She is now for it. Dems were mostly against. They are now for it [those in Congress anyway]. Forces against invasion are called terrorists. The invaders are called liberators. Omar Bashir is to be indicted but not Bush & Blair & Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz & Kristol & Haas ...

The US government knows only how to enter without bothering how to withdraw. Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. Military action against Iran is logical culmination of the policy that is being followed by successive US administrations. Without radical departure in policy Iran is to be attached and at this juncture a policy can not be changed that has taken decades to shape. So let look forward to a new war – most devastating war that will inflict much deeper wounds than the Second World War or rather all wars fought in the human history. Let look forward to great (war) entertainment on corporate controlled media.
Subhash Dhuliya
New Delhi

Grappa, thank you for that

If so many people are afraid to speak up (and believe me, they are in my neck of the woods) it's important to speak up. Even if it doesn't "change" anything. It's not enough to do only that, but it's not worthless and ineffectual either.

Read up on resistance or liberation movements that worked. What factors were present? Organizing, strategizing, protesting, non-cooperating, etc.

I've done a lot of non-cooperating in my life but I want it to deepen. Trying to become aware of distracting falsehoods, like even the notion of nation states and their charismatic (or negative charismatic) leaders. This forum helps me a lot despite the rudeness and shouting. Venting may drain off energy, or it may free us up for effective action. Venting can be shouting in forums or writing to a so-called representative. Maybe anything that relieves our frustration is a bad thing, a tool of the corporate empire. (Is there a name for the power holders that we can agree on? I feel silly calling it the evil empire, but am willing to go with that if it's clear what is meant.)

Glancing references to some good actions here. Where can we talk where no one will be listening?

It is all very well for the IRI to spend money and get you to go and protest against WAR - which is a noble cause BUT - what do you say about this ---" Nine face stoning death in Iran - At least eight women and one man are reported to have been sentenced to death by stoning in Iran. -BBC 7/20/08 " -
Would you like to go on the streets and protest about this bit of barbarism too?
I suggest going straight to Tehran with a long piece of rope and stinging all the Fascist Mullah Mafia's of The NON - ISLAMIC. bloody NON REPUBLICAN, OF INVADERS OF IRAN and hanging them from the Pahlavi avenue's trees...How about it folks ---any volunteers?

How would we know if protests had any impact whatsoever? Protest today is America's silent story, not covered by our "free" news media. I recall "back in the day" (late '60's, early '70's) that what gave protests relevance was the media coverage; much of mainstream America, it turned out, often shared the views of the protesters. Media coverage also "legitimized" protest as a means by which government can be compelled to listen to the people. This time around, it appears that the media black-out has had a demoralizing impact, making dissent appear to be without public support --just some isolated non-conformists grumbling about this or that.

All ideals aside, the public perception of today's protests will remain that of small groups of bored youth UNTIL the media is compelled to cover it.
Once that is done, it'll bring more and more people with similar views out of isolation, joining in the demand for change, and that's how movements are born. What would it take to end the censorship of the mainstream news?