We are on the move! John Stauber says that we need a grass roots organization like "Move-on", well we do now. Al Gore has launched "WE". For more info log on to http://www.wecansolveit.org
Read his speech -- it sounds like a new, highly-charged Al Gore. Let's hope. WE need all the help we can get ...cause it ain't coming from government.

How true Greenerthanthou, all we have left in America is the means of distribution and wealth collection for the rich!

Good luck taking over the means of production in the USA today. What do we manufacture? Weapons.

What good will it do to take over insurance companies, mortgage banks, Starbucks, real estate speculators and WalMart?

This country no longer makes much of value. It has been stripped of its productive forces by the bougeoisie. We have to come up with another plan.

The Green Party calls for decentralization and local economies with fair trade. It's a start. I don't know. Sometimes I think this mess can't be solved. But what choice do we have but to try?

USAn: In popular discussions, the term 'dictatorship' has come to mean the iron dominance of an individual. Dictatorship of the proletariat refers to the iron dominance of the working class. By contrast, today, we live in the dictatorship of the bougeoisie, where the imperialist capitalists call the shots (quite literally!). Perhaps the terms are dated, and a little confusing at first, but once understood they correctly describe where we are and where we need to go.

A Marxist analysis of history is essential to see through the fog of capitalist reformism. We are in a class war! The dictatorship of the imperialists must be overthrown and replaced by the organs of the working class, or we will remain on the losing end of that war.

Pissant,

You make some good points. NN, the Obmama-ites, and other "progressive" wishy-washy bourgeois type organizations seem to be replacing the genuinely critical, class conscious, movements like those I mentioned above.

It is a little spooky - even our local Thomas Merton Center - formerly a big-tent organization for a diversity of left and radical* tactics and viewpoints - from Pax-Christi-types to Anarchists, has seen a bourgeois takeover where those with more youthful radical views have been kicked out.

But please avoid Marx's very poorly translated concept of the working people-majority taking control of politics and the economy for the benefit of society - this is hardly a "dictatorship".

* "radical" means: "one who seeks the roots of things". It does not mean "extremist"

"Most people weren't paying attention during the Clinton years, but the progressive movement has made progress since the SCOTUS overthrew the system"

I see just the opposite.

There was a very vigorous movement for global economic justice and against US hegemony in the later Clinton years and early Bush Years, connected on the internet by Indymedia system and culminating in the World Social Fora with attendances in the hundreds of thousands. This movement is largely in disarray now, and Indymedia is largely disused.

There are no issues except for encroaching martial law and the destruction of the constitution. If you don't win there you won't win anywhere EVER again. You'll find it rather hard to protest effectively from a FEMA concentration camp after the US gov blows a nuke off in a US city and brings the full hammer of martial law down.

"if you want to know what the future holds simply imagine a boot stomping on a human face,.. forever."

- George Orwell.

I think there is a way to make your point without attacking other progessive organizations like MoveOn.org and the ACLU. Neither organization is perfect but I have yet to find one that is. I consider myself a kneejerk liberal at the far left on most issues. Moveon.org generally supports the same issues as does the ACLU. As long as they do they will continue to have my support. When I find a better train to ride I will but until then, these two organizations deserve our thanks and support.

The Green Party has a lot of good points, but to gain any traction they are going to have to come up with a new candidate or two...I like Nader, but this guy has way too much baggage to pull an significant votes. Begin promoting younger people. If it is going to survive it will have to be a party of young voters. Why not Robert Kennedy, Jr.?

If you are a humanitarian who wants to know the way forward, you MUST have a class analysis of history. The primary battle everywhere in the imperialist dominated world is the war of owners against workers - bourgeoisie versus proletariat in the classical terminology. This is well known amongst learned leftists, and the fact that Netroots Nation never calls for proletarin socialism exposes them as cynical charlatans. Tampering with the machinery of the capitalist electoral system in the world's dominant imperialist nation will never bring lasting and meaningful change. The historical evidence of this is overwhelming. Do not forget that Hitler rose inside of a {bourgeois) democracy that was far more democratic than the American system.

Again in classical terms, we live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. There will NEVER be peace or economic justice until this is replaced with the dictatorship of the proletariat. Such appealing goals are simply impossible in a system that has exploitation of one human by another as its basis. Inequality, nationalism, poverty and war are integral to capitalism, and there is no way out except successful international proletarian revolution.

Netroots Nation is a REFORMIST organization - one that has no stated intention of overthrowing illegitimate capitalist class rule. Their site is drenched with left-leaning patriotism, but never a call for global workers' revolution. Many of their platforms might be acceptable as transitional demands, but they are instead put forward as ends in themselves.

The theoretical work has been done - most of it more than a century ago by Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, etc. What remains is the task of implementation. Those who would have you continuously pressuring the capitalists (liberal Democrats, Greens, Nader, NN) are class traitors (or capitalist supporters) and perhaps more treacherous than open imperialists, because they sweep up masses of good hearted people who are subjectively revolutionary, and guide them down the rat hole of capitalist reform.

If you want real and lasting peace, prosperity and justice, you must build the party of proletarin socialist revolution. The enraged masses cannot go forward successfully without leadership. The task of our times is to build that leadership, and integrate it into the major industrial sectors. Whether or not this has instant appeal to you, any real red can demonstrate that there simply is no other choice. Without a disciplined Leninist party at the head of the workers movement, we are doomed to failure and mass death in the next world war.

I beg my CD comrades to explore this avenue seriously. NN is going to lead you down the primrose path to the next nuclear war. Many will be shocked by this attack on NN, but it is not based upon a pet peave or self interest on my part. I am offering the best social science known, and can readily dispel any opposition that dares step forward. This is not because of personal genius, but rather because I have a simple class perspective, and a basic knowledge of modern history. If you are unfamiliar with this approach, get studying. The world needs you!

I like how comprehensive and "radical" the GNA platform is and will sign up. But I would like to see the alliance highlight the more abstract values underpinning the platform. I'd like to see public discussions that frame issues in terms of those values. And if public servants do not share those values I want to see social/political pressure to push them out of public service. Intolerance? Yes. Intolerance for deceit/corruption/aggression.

Starofthesea - "So let's see, the opposite of sensible is??????? Oh I get it! Idealistic!!!!"

Actually the definition of sensible is - showing or having good sense, prudent, judicious, exhibiting understanding...

So, the opposite of sensible would be....

I'm just saying....

As Samson says, this whole nightmare is only the natural product of what was set in motion in WW2. The national unwillingness to deal with the evils of global dominance imposed through the nuclear hegemony has created the impossible situation we now face: our nation has failed to advance the higher moral imperatives in any way whatsoever. The USA has increased the rate at which resource depletion occurs, with very mixed results, but mere production never allowed morally defensible improvements for the masses of humans worldwide. We kidded ourselves in this regard throughout the past 50 years....quality of life is not really correlatable to resource use in the LONG TERM...we have confused resource use with happiness. Oil cannot bring happiness and satisfied societies any more than gold can.

Now it is time to take the long view and accept the mistakes made since 1945. US citizens have been the "nazis" for many millions worldwide since that time, and those of us paying attention know this full well. Our "best and brightest" were less thoughtful and wise than we had any reason to expect....ours is now a culture of denial and fear, anger and greed, wishful thinking and humorlessness. It is time for the experiment to regroup and rethink itself. Since there is ZERO chance that this will happen within the present consumerist dream, we must wait patiently until the raging multitudes ask for help, when and if. The Greens are right on right down the line. support them any way you can. Meanwhile enjoy every day and make your views known publicly every week. This is the time we were warned about . Better dig it.

DD--guess that's why I am not a supporter or member of MoveOn. I simply am not a sensible liberal. Thanks so much for clarifying that for me. I just thought I wasn't much of an organization person.

So let's see, the opposite of sensible is??????? Oh I get it! Idealistic!!!!

Gee, Daniel D., the Dem Central Comm. apologist has spoken. As have a few of the MO sheepies.

People should beware - if DD defends a group, it probably means the criticism of that group is correct.

One thing the Green Party includes that the GNA doesn't is
FEMINISM

Since the world-as-we-know-it, in its completely fucked-up state, is a product of patriarchy (still alive and strong in the USA), it seems to me that any movement wanting fundamental change would have to bring women, their voices and their concerns into the picture from the beginning.

All of your goals are good, but if you don't have a feminist agenda, you'll be re-inventing the wheel. And women will evenually be beneath the wheel once again. The reason we're near the end of the road today is because women have been out of the picture from the start of "civilization." And look at what we have! If this is civilization, it's not only uncivilized (and always has been), but it's time to replace it with something that's actually civil.

Without women as equal partners in this movement (and hopefully they are and I'm just showing my ignorance), you'll end up like MoveOn, a top-down organization with men on top.

I am a MoveOn.org member because I see it as one practical way, among many others, to exert some influence. Like any other group, we are not the be-all and end-all of progressive activism. We serve a particular niche: rapid response and GOTV. We are not perfect in our execution of actions (though often we're pretty good), but why would we be expected to be? We are made up of human beings ;-) and we are still learning. We are still building. It is possible some of you are correct; maybe our time has come and gone. I do not think that is the case, but we shall see.
In any case, it does not appear necessary for promoters of the GNA to attempt to marginalize or demonize MoveOn.org in order to further the GNA goals.
But that's just me.

I had joined MOveOn way back, right after the Iraq war. But it took me just a few months to recognize the outfit and abandoned them. Good for me!

If you want political change first you have to change the system.

1. Work toward changes in ballot access laws

2. Seek legislative change on the local and state levels for Instant Runoff Voting

And, yes, the Dems are fully complicit starting with Harry Truman and the establishment of the National Security State. Churchill is supposed to have called Eisenhower in 1956 to say that with Stalin gone, saner heads were in charge and we should start negotiating with the USSR. Eisenhower didn't because he didn't want to be seen as "soft on communism". The next 2 Dem presidents and the Dem Congress perpetuated the myth that the USSR was scary so vast sums of tax dollars could be funnelled to the magnates of the military-industrial complex. Yes, they are completely complicit. The decent people in both parties are marginalized.

good luck with that. but i doubt enough people are radicalized enough to 'get it'. they probably will in an oil-less, food-less future, but not right now.

following bnerin, here's Zinn:

Zinn - Election Madness
The Progressive March 2008 Issue
http://www.truthout.org/article/howard-zinn-election-madness

I'm not taking some ultra-left position that elections are totally insignificant, and that we should refuse to vote to preserve our moral purity. Yes, there are candidates who are somewhat better than others, and at certain times of national crisis (the Thirties, for instance, or right now) where even a slight difference between the two parties may be a matter of life and death.

I'm talking about a sense of proportion that gets lost in the election madness. Would I support one candidate against another? Yes, for two minutes-the amount of time it takes to pull the lever down in the voting booth.

But before and after those two minutes, our time, our energy, should be spent in educating, agitating, organizing our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the neighborhood, in the schools. Our objective should be to build, painstakingly, patiently but energetically, a movement that, when it reaches a certain critical mass, would shake whoever is in the White House, in Congress, into changing national policy on matters of war and social justice.

This is where I sign...

MikeBinSC

Before you can throw a stone at me ( and you are asking a valid question of anyone that critiqes)...I don't have a plan. But GNA is nothing new, just another send me a $ outfit.

MoveOn is with no one but themselves. No use for them. Most average people won't believe anything they say anymore.

The only thing I can think of is to start at the bottom and work up. I can't see how anything else will work.

"some way to disconnect people from tv and radio, "

Thats why I have been so tediously repeating that the Alternative media is NOT an alternative Unless it also ATTACKS THE CORPORATE MEDIA EVEN BEFORE THOSE WHO ARE NOT WATCHING/LISTENING TO THE ALTERNATIVE MEDIA.

You have to Problamatize the Corporate Media itself not just maginalize yourself on a website that will never ever ever get to ask a question on National TV in Novemeber when That idiot anchor of ABC news will again play 24 hours with the Election the way he did in the New Hampshire primaries.

We must either DELEGITIMIZE the Corporate Media, or we must die.

If you got Howard Zinn who is about the most well informed historian of people's movements to endorse your idea, I would be on your ship in a minute.

I am not all that smart to see the entire picture, but Zinn could. The comments thus far for the most part have good points to make, even though some in disagreement.

My two-bits worth is that it would be great to gather all the diverse progressives under one tent to agree on 3 or 4 core issues such as vacate Iraq together with demilitarizing to some rational degree, universal single payer health care, adopt something akin to Gore's statement yesterday - all in preparation for whomever wins in November and in readiness for massive strikes or boycotts to bring action upon the core issues. People with imagination greater than mine could surely identify what kind of action would threaten our elected officials to act in our behalf, that is on behalf of the majority of Americans, even though that majority might not even recognize such reforms are in their interests.

In addition to organizing the GNA, I think all progressive Democrats should take it a step further by actually changing our registration to Green. As the Dems see the numbers rising in the Green and falling in the Dems, the message will become very clear - Either move the platform to the left or lose your base.

I'm all about supporting the Greens and any progressive candidates that have a chance of winning elections, just don't ask me to throw my vote away in a national contest that we have no chance of winning. Show me some organization, support and money for advertising, and in the interim, I'll vote to keep the jack-booted fascists as far removed from the seat of power as I can get them.

Here is the link to change your registration to the Green Party online, check it out -
http://www.switch2green.org/
If everyone would do this, we could have a big impact, and you can still vote however you want in the primaries and the general election.

BTW Greenerthanthou and Lorax, I have also been very active on the radio, pushing the Liberal/Progressive point of view out to an almost totally conservative audience here. I've been called every name in the book, but I keep telling them the truth, as they will never hear it otherwise.

Well, Mike, here is the Green Party website

http://www.gp.org/index.php

The 10 Key Values of the Green Party are:
Grassroots Democracy
Social Justice
Ecological Wisdom
Non-Violence
Decentralization
Community-Based Economics
Feminism
Diversity
Responsibility
Future Focus

Our politics stem from this, and the "plan" is to make this world a better place for all beings. The Greens are in almost every country.
Did you know that Ingrid Betancourt, the hostage recently released by FARC, is a Green? You may not have known that, since the mass media didn't report that. Wangari Maathai is a Green.

Greens don't always agree on everything, but we definitely plan to make this world a better place. And not by putting more troops in Afghanistan, or supporting nuclear power, or invading Pakistan, like the great hope of the Dems!

I posted this plan by Rich Whitney, a Green who ran for Illinois governor, at the Al Gore site, but it's worth repeating

http://www.whitneyforgov.org/articles/EnergyPolicy.htm

The only way any populist movement will suceed in lasting is for it to completely and permantly dis-empower the corporatist structure running this world. That means disenfranchising every single person with any accountability for the current state of our society. If you don't believe this, take a look at what happened in other countries that tried the same things being proposed by the author and other posters here. For starters: Chile, South Africa, Poland. Read "Confessions of a Hit Man" and "The Shock Doctrine". These people running the show are real serious, you just don't take away their marbles and let them run free.

I have a radio show, Lorax, but it's only 1/2 hour a week. Wednesday mornings at 9am, CST on
http://www.wdbx.org/

You can listen online if you want

I went through the platform of the Netroots Coalition, looked up matters on which I felt uninformed, and found myself in agreement or strong agreement on 118 out of 126 points, with questions about six points and reservations about two. Thus the degree of support of a politician for this platform - and the degree to which their votes reflect this - will represent an extraordinarily good measure of the degree to which they represent me! I am most heartened by this effort, and have joined it, sent the questionnaire to my representatives and candidates saying so, and signed the pledge of resistance.

I will urge others to do so as well.

Thanks for the info on GNA, Ronnie. I am willing to help grow a broad political alliance of progressives who are action oriented and committed to real change.

Samson, elmysterio, toast and all the rest, WHAT IS THE PLAN?

"At this moment, Obama is leading the only real "movement" we have going on."

I don't know how you define "we"... I can tell you with absolute certainty that I am not included in your group.

I will not vote for Obama. He is one more lying Republican posing as a Democrat. That you would want me to be fooled into believing otherwise would require that I disregard the clear evidence that he has grudgingly provided.

Obama's integrity is all tapped out. He had me at hope and change. He lost me with lies and deception. I don't need any more "leadership" from liars. Fool yourself... it seems that you are good at that.

Get out of the Democratic Party.
Build the Green Party.

Stop constantly looking at one election as if it is the only possible choice. We constantly see the same cycle. Progressives surrender their ideals and support a pro-war, pro-corporate candidate that opposes everything they believe in. In doing so they fail to build an alternative. Therefore, four years later they are faced with exactly the same problem.

The old saying is that when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

The first thing to do is to stop supporting candidates and a party that oppose what we believe in. Electing people who hate us, ridicule us and who oppose everything we believe in is not the answer.

The Dems always try to say that if you don't have a magic plan that fixes everything today, then we have to keep digging ourselves deeper into the same hole. Instead, we need to stop digging and start working on how to get out of this.

I've been hearing this bull about changing the Democratic Party from within from at least 96 when everyone was pissed at the Clintons and the congressional Democrats for NAFTA, Welfare Reform etc.

You've been trying for 12 years now ... how's that working for you?

And how long does it take to figure out you are playing in a rigged game you can't win? And that by continuing to play in the rigged game, all you are really doing is empowering exactly the policies you say your oppose?

Samson, do you actually have a plan you would like to share with us to make things better?

Please cite for me the large differences we've seen in policy since the Democrats got control of the Congress from the Republicans.

Has the war in Iraq ended?
Has Bush been impeached?
Has Congress exercised any effective oversight on the administration?
Has tax policy changed?
Has the policy of letting corporations send out jobs overseas changed?
Have any major environmental laws been passed by Congress?

Heck, Bush has had to use the veto very rarely.

The Dems TALK like there is a difference, but when you look at policy, you see very little differences. In fact, if you look at policy from the Reagan-Bush years into the Clinton years and into the Bush years, you see very few real differences.

And the key example is the 'project for world domination' that has continued unabated through times when the Democrats controlled the White House or the Congress or both.

The problem is that the progressives in the Dem party can't ever set the policy. Today's Dem party is a very undemocratic group where policy is set only at the top. And no one with progressive thoughts is allowed to reach that level without disavowing everything that made them progressive (see Pelosi, Obey and Conyers as examples).

For instance, progressives at lower levels in the party have been working all through this decade to pass resolutions at the county and state level against the war and in favor of impeachment. There's certainly no sign that this clear statement of what the members of the party wants has ever influenced the policy of the party. In fact, I can't remember even a hint that people like Reid or Pelosi even acknowledge the existence of these resolutions, much less give them any weight in determining policy.

The one thing the progressives in the Dem party need to do is to leave. Its clear that they are wasting their time and simply can not influence the policy from below nor reach any positions of power in the party. They are just wasting their time and efforts in even trying.

Samson, you like elmysterio, are painting with a very wide brush when you say, "the Democrats are full partners and leaders in the project for world domination, and you know MoveOn is just a wing of that party and therefore of that project, you know what you need to know." I think you should qualify that statement by saying that the DLC, the Clintons and the leadership of the party are the problem, as we have many good progressives in the Dem party.

Is Daniel David the next George Carlin?

I almost got in trouble with my boss when I read "that Obama is what the doctor ordered to re-make the Democrats into a more honest and effective party. " ... I was laughing so hard it was pretty obvious that I wasn't working!

This is the same Obama that just lied his rear off to the members of this party pretending to be a progressive to get the nomination.

This is the party who's entire nomination process was just a giant fraud. The problem for the Democrats was that the pro-war, pro-corporate rule policy of the Clinton's was very unpopular with the members of the party. Obama just lied, and that's the only word for it, and pretended to be an alternative to get the nomination.

And now Obama reveals that he's at least as bad as the Clintons, if not even further to the right.

Yep, that's the face of the new 'honest' Democratic Party!

Last time I heard, the neocons were Repugs. We may need to start thinking about damage control instead of getting down on Dems to let the Repugs win.

"The crazed neo-con project for world domination, aided and abetted by profit-obsessed multinational corporations; countered feebly by the "loyal opposition" of centrist Democrats, single-issue public interest groups, and top-down "progressive" organizations like MoveOn, have brought us to the precipice."
-------------------
Can't help deconstructing that sentence!

First, the 'project for world domination' did not begin with the neo-cons. It didn't suddenly arise as idea in the mid-nineties to be implemented the first time under Bush. Instead, this has been an ongoing project since at least the last few years of World War II.

Its clear from history that at some point during World War II it was obvious to American leaders that they would be a superpower in the world after the war. Much of what went on in the last couple of years of the war is about positioning the country to be just that after the war. And trying to limit its only obvious rival, the Soviet Union, and its prospects for the same after the war.

Much of the cold war years can be explained under the guise of a 'project for world domination'. As well as the Clinton era 'globalization'.

So, to try to blame this on the neo-cons is just obscuring the real truth.

The same goes for the description of the Democrats in this sentence. When you realize that America has been trying to achieve world domination since WWII (at least), then its obvious that for a huge portion of that period there has been a Democratic majority in Congress. They held that all through the 60's, 70's, 80's and into the 90's until 94. There were also Democratic Presidents under Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton.

So, when you accept that this didn't somehow just begin with the neo-cons, it also becomes obvious that the Democrats were not a 'loyal opposition' feebly mounting opposition, but instead full partners and leaders in the project.

The only thing the neo-cons brought to the table was a change in tactics. The neo-cons are want the tactics of a blatant use of raw force, while some earlier administrations and congresses might have been a tad more subtle (read 'confessions of an economic hit man' some time ... or 'the shock doctrine').

MoveOn has always just been a wing of the Democratic Party. It formed to help counter the impeachment of Clinton. And since then it only very rarely distances itself in any way from the leadership of the Dem party. And if it does so, its between elections. During the climax of the election cycle, it is always just yet another operative of the Democratic Party.

When you accept that the Democrats are full partners and leaders in the project for world domination, and you know MoveOn is just a wing of that party and therefore of that project, you know what you need to know.

The solution is staring us right in the face:

www.nationalinitiative.us

Fantastic plan, Ronnie. I've been looking for just this sort of mechanism. Have signed up and am looking forward to being involved. And you evaluation of Moveon is
spot on. Couldn't believe when they resisted impeachment. What a dissappointment and rip-off. Am sure they are making a living, and that's nice, but was so hoping for real, genuine pressure for change.

Is this guy for real? This article must be a joke.
He says:
Here are five, immediate steps to head off catastrophe and to begin to build a radical populist alternative to MoveOn:
1. Move beyond single-issue politics and embrace a multi-issue, radical but practical, platform.
- Wrong. You must deal with the politics running the country right now. Anything new you start will get squashed under the wheels. Accountability and prosecution is the first step no turning a blind eye and trying to 'start over'.
2. Join up and help GNA build up a multi-million email list, a netroots army of multi-issue progressives and radicals, who understand the need to transform the System and literally overthrow the dictatorship of corporations and indentured politicians.
- Wrong. Since the internet is controlled and the bush adminstration has grated retroactive immunity to ISP privacy violations, your "email list" will assuredly fail.
3. Press the politicians to take a clear stand on all the burning issues.
- Wrong. What politicians? bush? Cheney? The bobble-headed morons in congress? Who are "the politicians?"
4. As we "press the politicians," we need to consciously and deliberately integrate electoral insurgency and netroots lobbying with non-electoral resistance — including boycotts, strikes, civil disobedience, and other pressure tactics. In the face of an unprecedented Crisis, we must move beyond polite protest to resistance.
- Right. Stop feeding the bear.
5. Sign the Pledge of Resistance.
- Wrong. Petitions and papers have already been signed by thousands. It will end up being "just another goddamned piece of paper". Save your strength for what matters.

The author is excited about starting a "new way" and killing MoveOn. Continually re-inventing the wheel isn't the key. The only "bad rep" that MoveOn got is because people listened to republican oriented propaganda attempting to generate bad publicity. MoveOn was FORCED to pull the Betrayus ad by republicans.
If you really want to affect change, you can only do it through radio. All the data on the internet is subject to corruption and television is going completely digital. The only way to get uncorrupted information out anymore is through radio.

I'm from the school of thought believing that Obama is what the doctor ordered to re-make the Democrats into a more honest and effective party. The antidote to the Terry McAullife attitude we have suffered under---so to speak.

Maybe MoveOn and the various "roots" will help us get there.

elmysterio, your painting with a very wide brush when you say, "The Democratic party is part of the problem, not the solution." I think you should qualify that statement by saying that the DLC, the Clintons and the leadership of the party are the problem, as we have many good progressives in the Dem party.

MikeBinSC said: "has gotten an undeserved bad reputation from many here on CD"

I think the reason for that is that some of us realize that MoveOn.org is nothing but a front for the DLC. Only democratic "true-believers" trust the DLC to affect positive change. But really, the democrats are JUST as complicit and corrupt as the republicans, with of course a few notable exceptions... The Democratic party is part of the problem, not the solution.

I agree with you DD, that MoveOn has done some very good things, and has gotten an undeserved bad reputation from many here on CD.

MoveOn is also conveniently pro-war. The fabled origins of this so-called liberal organization are cloaked in total b.s., somewhere between the National Enquirer and the Onion. When you have different groups of uber-power jockeying to f&*k over Americans, you need orgs like MoveOn to herd public opinion like cattle.

The MIMIC will see to it that the revolution is NOT televised, but I think you will still be able to find it on the net, until they pull the plug on that too, as they are trying to do as we speak!
See - http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/12/10310/

And at the bottom of this comment you'll find the stick, to be used if the carrot doesn't work!

Most people weren't paying attention during the Clinton years, but the progressive movement has made progress since the SCOTUS overthrew the system and appointed "W" to the office of president.

The internet has been crucial to that success. As I said we threw Liarman out of the party in favor of Lamont, but the Reps elected him anyway as an independent Liebertarian. People like Cynthia McKinney, who was in, out, in and out again, and was the first to bring impeachment charges against this criminal administration.

Kucinich continues to fight the good fight and we are adding more, like Donna Edwards all the time. Al Wynn (DINO)out, Donna Edwards in. And this is happening in other races around the country as we speak.

Nobody can stop the crash that is coming, as it is already baked into the cake, but we can move to lessen its impact by taking the appropriate actions now. If anyone thinks that it will be easier to organize resistance under Insane McSame, rather than under Obama, they are not being honest with themselves.

If you want to hasten the crash and have it now, before the elections, we certainly can do that, and it would be easy, not requiring anyone to protest in the street or go out on strike. All it would take is organization on the internet, and here is how you could do it -

The markets and the financial institutions like Countrywide, Bear Sterns, Indy Mac, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, just to name a few, are on the brink of failure. The economy is headed into recession/depression. Two thirds of all economic activity is from people like you and me buying stuff -
See - www.storyofstuff.com
All that is required to push it over the edge is for people like us to stop buying everything except the barest essentials of existence. Those who have 401k plans through their employers and individual IRA accounts should divert all investments out of the stock market and into stable value funds or precious metals(not mining companies).

These actions would impact Wall Street and the corporate Oligarcy like no election ever could, in the only place that means anything to them, the wallet! Who's in?

The underlying problem that progressives must address, is their impotency in a two party system. Progressives have been effectively corralled in the Democratic party, just as the religious right has been corralled in the Republican party. The good news is, both have been making loud noises about breaking free, but the bad news is, neither have the organization needed to do it successfully, and the efforts so far have been too little, too late.

Both are allowed to have candidates in the presidential election primary process, but the MIMIC (Military-Industrial-Media-Infotainment-Complex) decides who's message will be heard, by how many, for how long, and how those candidates will be perceived by the unenlightened masses.

They shut out the really progressive voice of Dennis Kucinich very early in the primary and then proceeded to mute John Edwards anti-corporate messge. The MIMIC has effectively chosen the two acceptable (to them) major party candidates for you.

Without a major organized "Internet Progressive Revolution", that I referenced in earlier comments on other threads, we, and our progressive views will be used and abused for political gain. If the MIMIC is allowed control over the internet, the game is truly over.

While at times, it may not seem like it, but there is a big difference between the Dems and the Reps, as the last eight years should have convinced any sceptics. Are there MIMIC members in the Dem party? - absolutely! But we have some damned good progressives in it too - a lot of them!

I think that without a strong, united "Internet Progressive Revolution", it will be easier to take over the Dem party by keeping progressives like Kucinich in office and removing DINOs and replacing them with people like Donna Edwards. You don't want to throw out the "progressive baby" with the dirty bath water.

The progessives are a bunch of orphans in need of a home. The Green Party could be that home, with a lot of organization that no one seems willing or able to do, so until that happens, let's keep on ridding our current home of our malevolent foster parents!

ORGANIZATION IS EVERYTHING!!
This is what I have been saying all along. If you want to use the GNA to get it done, fine by me, at least it is a plan!

I am resubmitting this comment from another thread for those who have not seen it. If you have already read it, skip to the next comment -

I am as angry about the waffling and compromising as the rest of you are, but you can't solve the problems we have by voting third party or write-ins in November. It's too late for that now and we have many progressive candidates in the Dem party, like Kucinich who need to be re-elected, and first-timers like Donna Edwards who will be replacing a DINO if elected in November.

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face! A McCain presidency will spell the end of America and the end of any chance of turning things around before it is too late. Anyone who is serious about changing the system must start organizing NOW!

IT'S ALL ABOUT ORGANIZATION

This is the only way progressives can hold Obama's and the Democrats' feet to the fire, and at the same time, create a viable third party, the Green Party, and make the progressive voice heard. It would take a massive amount of organizing and cooperation, but it could be done, and I would love to be able to vote for progressive people like Cynthia McKinney and even Ralph Nader knowing that my vote was not putting Bush III in the White House.

First of all you would have to organize all the progressive outlets on a common thread and around a common mission. By progressive outlets I mean websites, news sources, blogs, radio and podcasts, and print media. I'm talking about MoveOn, CommonDreams, TruthOut, BuzzFlash, DailyKos, HuffPost, AirAmerica, NovaM, DemocracyNow, The Nation, Mother Jones and all the rest! I'm talking about an Internet Progressive Revolution here! This can't be done on a piecemeal basis!

And here is the mission -
Get every single progressive Democratic voter to change their registration from Democrat to Green. Even if we got eveyone to do this, we would not have enough to win an election, so they can, and still should, vote Democratic in November, but we would be well positioned to make demands on the new Democratic power structure by threatening them with mass losses in the 2010 elections for the House and Senate, as the entire House stands for re-election every two years, along with one third of the Senate.

By 2010, we could make the Green Party a viable alternative if threats are not enough, and should we still need it. I would hope that we don't need it, as the time available to make a course correction to save this country, and this world, is growing very, very short. We are in that proverbial quandary of an irresistable force on a collision course with an immovable object, and it ain't gonna be pretty! The perfect storm of financial and economic failure, war without end, global warming, peak oil, food shortages, water shortages, resource depletion and dying oceans is bearing down on us at breakneck speed and the ship's crew is either asleep-at-the-helm, or as another commenter said, trying to figure out how to make us pay for the carnage with our tax dollars!

Mike B. in SC

MoveOn.org is an ally of sensible liberals, but not the be-all, end-all "spokesman" their leadership imagines. Same with the ACLU. Both are generally on the correct side of "things" and therefore friends, not foes, but sometimes both (especially MoveOn) is slightly "over the top", "a bubble off", slightly warped (to the ineffective) in communication attempts.

Recent TV ad with a young mother holding her baby, Alex, and telling John McCain "you can't have him" (for a hundred-year occupation of Iraq) is an example. While correctly opposing the occupation, MoveOn chose to most likely offend (and politically energize) many families of veterans now serving and mothers of plenty of others who served in the past. Little Alex is NOT somehow too special (more "special" than other kids) to serve, and the Mom appears clueless that when Alex is 18, he (not his Mom) will make his own decision about military service. The ad cost plenty, no doubt, and was not nearly as effective as it should have been if more properly structured.

At this moment, Obama is leading the only real "movement" we have going on. People need to realize that now is the time to take initiative and vote for what positive thing we actually have running---not just pine away for a "pie in the sky" someday thing. We aren't going to remake MoveOn, or grassroots or netroots or whatever in about 100 days.
We do, however, have an excellent shot to set conservatives way, way, way back in this election. Let's hope we don't get distracted and "choke".

If there was some way to disconnect people from tv and radio, a lot of them might wake up to reality again, and realize they're heading over the cliff with all the other lemmings shoving behind them.

It's true that plenty remain blind to what is happening around them and to what they are part of, and most if not all career politicians are corrupt...but anything that can encourage even some people to wake up is a good thing. It's too easy to just focus on how fucked up things are. It is easy for me anyway and I see that in posts here and discussions as well. But it is worthwhile to participate in processes that create even incremental change. Just to throw one's hands in the air and proclaim everything hopeless is not helpful.

But I fear that many millions more remain willfully blind as they shall be called - food.

I agree with you 100% Arvy.

I also hope the plan of action proposed could work, but I'm not holding my breath.

The bloviation of Move On is certainly well described.

Netroots, grassroots, any other root... do you really think that the career politicians really give a shit what any of these "grassroots" organizations think? HELL no! Stop trying to work within the system that is rigged against you! YOU CAN NOT AFFECT POSITIVE CHANGE THROUGH THIS CORRUPT SYSTEM.

Millions of Americans ... are finally connecting the dots between the burning issues, moving beyond limited concerns to radical awareness.

I sincerely hope that is true. But I fear that many millions more remain willfully blind. And I'm doubtful that even the level of "radical awareness" that does exist is sufficiently radical to overcome forces of suppression that have grown overwhelmingly strong.

The GNA survey is brilliant. I sent it to all of the folks in office or running for office in the state where I live. At the very least it puts them on the spot.