We Have Everything to Fear From McCain
When the almost six billion of us outside the US watch the contest for The Most Powerful Man in the World, we tend to focus on the candidates' foreign policies. If I was Iranian, say, I'd be anxious that John McCain keeps joking in public about killing me. As a bravo-bow after singing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" to the tune of the Beach Boys melody Barbra Ann, he responded to being told exports of cigarettes to Iran are high by guffawing: "That's a way of killing them!"
But there's a way in which the next US president will affect you even more directly than foreign policy. By his economic decisions, the next president will help swing the price of the food you eat and the wages you earn - wherever you live on earth.
So it's a little worrying that John McCain - who still has a reasonable chance of winning - says: "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should... To be honest, I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated."
This is a man who can't tell his Sunni from his Shia, and who opposed the Northern Ireland peace process as a capitulation to terrorism. And he admits he knows even less about the economy than that. On one occasion, he let his irritation with the subject slip by referring to it as "the credit cunt".
When he is forced to talk about the economy, McCain has always given the same answer: "I rely on the circle I have developed over many years - people like Phil Gramm." He has Herbert Hoovered-up his slivers of economic theory from this man - but who is Gramm? Until he briefly sputtered into the headlines a few days ago, nobody had cared to look.
Phil Gramm is an ornery old ex-Texas senator who seems to have swooped out of the most scathing H L Mencken sketch. He became McCain's "best friend in politics" - and started speaking to him every day - when they linked arms to stop Hillary Clinton's 1993 push to extend healthcare to poor Americans.
He calls for "ruthlessly" slashing government spending - but only focuses on spending on the poor. When he was told paying for healthcare plunged many 80-year-olds into poverty, he said: "Most of us don't have the luxury of living to be 80 years old, so it's hard for me to feel sorry for them."
Later, one of those very 80-year-olds approached him because she was terrified she wouldn't be able to pay her medical bills. Gramm laughed and told her to find herself a rich husband. He chuckled: "People say I don't have a heart. I do. I keep it in a quart jar on my desk."
But most relevant to those of us outside the US is that Gramm - more than any other figure in American politics - made the two great financial scandals of our time possible, and nearly brought the global economy down with him.
How? Gramm says government regulation of the economy is "akin to communism", and must be destroyed. His first great step towards this goal came in the 1990s, when he championed and pushed through the law that exempted Enron from both government regulation and public disclosure, on the grounds these were "unacceptable fetters on the free market". Enron was his biggest campaign contributor, and employing his wife to the tune of a million bucks.
So thanks to Gramm, nobody was watching over Enron any more. As a result, they embarked on a massive programme of fraud and pillage. After taking over the electricity market in California, they deliberately engineered blackouts in entire cities to drive up the price for power. In a surreal move, Gramm blamed "environmental extremists" - the nearest bogeyman to hand - even after it was proven Enron execs had paid the power plants to "get creative" in turning out the lights.
Gramm learned from the Enron scandal - to go further and push harder. He turned his attention (and his fund-raising) to the mortgage companies. Since the 1930s, there had been an unwritten deal in US politics: the government would rescue the banks if they grew sick, but in return the banks had to take the sensible medicine of regulation. Gramm thought this was "crazy": why would banks ever need to be rescued in a free market?
So in 2000, while everybody was riveted by the Gore vs Bush stand-off in Florida, Gramm slipped into a vast 3,000-page bill 268 pages radically deregulating the banking system. A legal textbook later called this "a stunning departure from normal legislative practice"; few lawmakers noticed it was there when they voted. Suddenly, the roles that had been reserved in the US for regulated banks were handed over to a vast network of unregulated financial institutions called the "shadow banking system." They began to offer wildly unsustainable mortgages to the poor at supersonic interest rates. Through accountancy-acrobatics, they then bundled these risky loans into exotic packages of derivative commodities.
All this was only legal because of Gramm's legislative footwork. He swiftly moved on from the Senate to a megabucks job at UBS, one of the banks raking in billions from his changes.
Within a few years, the entire system began to collapse without the support beams of state regulation. Sub-prime mortgages predictably fell apart, with 2 million Americans - mostly black and Hispanic - facing repossession. The state has had to step in with a much heavier hand than before - and even that will not prevent a recession now.
The billionaire Warren Buffet pointed out that Phil Gramm has twice tossed "financial weapons of mass destruction" into the US economy. Yet instead of shunning him, McCain made Gramm the co-chair of his presidential campaign, and hinted he might make him Treasury Secretary. McCain - the supposed scourge of buying influence - was even happy for Gramm to be simultaneously a paid lobbyist for the mortgage industry and helping to write his speeches about the mortgage crisis. The Gramm-grip on McCain's policies shows: incredibly, the wannabe-president responded to the credit crunch caused by deregulation by calling for even more deregulation.
The biggest question in US politics should be: would you buy a mortgage from this man? But it's a sign of how shallow the media coverage is that Gramm's ideological fanaticism passed almost without comment; he only became an issue when he made a silly verbal gaffe, claiming America is only in a "mental recession". (In CEO-Land, this is true: they are walking away with $100m bonuses from their failures.) Only then did McCain distance himself.
So it seems for this putative president, causing two major economic crises is fine - but speaking about them crudely is a step too far. Yessir: if you liked the credit crunch, you'll love McCainomics.
--Johann Hari
©independent.co.uk
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40 Comments so far
Show AllFeeling manic about McCain? Check out this short clip, it made me chuckle:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHVUKHYm_Vo
RSJ you are a slave to the Democratic-Republican stranglehold over our country. Never will be the time to break with these bastards according to you. If not now then when? Just how badly do we need to be sold out before we quit voting for them?
We start now. No more Democrats. We need to build up a third party a few percentage points at a time. It is precisely because of people like you that we can't break the duopoly. If we can get 5% this time, 7-8% the next, and we keep growing then eventually we take on the big dogs.
You are already defeated, never mind.
Okay, Tailcap, so vote for McKinney or Nader and repent while you live under McCain.
It doesn't matter how progressive McKinney or Nader is -- they're not going to get elected this year. If you think they are, you're living in a dream world. Ralph's only role in 2008, as it was in 2004 when he knowingly took money from pro-Bush groups, is to divide the progressive vote and put McCain in office. Cynthia Mckinney isn't even going to get on enough state ballots to win the electoral vote. Would you seriously rather live in a country with a President McCain over a President Obama? And don't give me your same old nonsense about both of them being the same. Even a quick look at their voting records and past history shows they are not. (Gee, which candidate is tight with the Bush family?) And that's the real truth.
Ralph Nader even admitted that it would have been better for the country had Gore been elected in 2000 (and he was, legally). If you can still afford a computer after four years of a McCain presidency, will you be quoting Nader saying it probably would have been better for the country if Obama had been elected, as he prepares to run again to serve his ego?
Lisa,
What I find amusing about your Nader rants is that you paint yourself as some kind of barefooted hippy, living in a cave with no electricity and no coffee, angrily picking at the specks in the eyes of our most progressive candidates like Nader, while being completely oblivious the the humongous beam jetting out from the eye of your chosen candidate, the establishment's very own pro-corportist, pro-war, pro-status quo, pro-FISA capitulator, SOB Obama.
Sorry, it's just hard to conjure up the image of a no-nonsense, non-establishment, flower-child radical sporting an Obama sticker on the bicycle. And that's the truth.
Lisa,
Ralph owns between $100,000 and $250,000 worth of shares in the Fidelity Magellan Fund.
The Fidelity Magellan fund owns 777,080 shares of Raytheon, a major missile manufacturer. The fund controls 4,321,400 shares of Occidental Petroleum stock.
Turns out Ralph has money in a fund that controls stock in questionable investments. I have a 403k for my retirement with this Legend Group that in turn buys Oppenheimer funds and bonds etc. All I get are statements that give me an acct.# and a general description but I am not really sure where the money is and with who. I guess if I indirectly owned McDonalds' stock and didn't even know it, I would be guilty in your eyes of making kids obese, spreading heart disease, shortening children's life spans, deforesting the Amazon rainforestwhere they graze the cattle on and contributing to global warming. In other words, I would be a monster!
On balance, I would still argue that on what I consider to be the most important issue of all, the warmongering that kills people directly unlike the greasy burgers, and super inflated military spending which Obama is a cheerleader for and which starves domestic programs that help people, Ralph is waaaay preferable and at least he would end the war-NOW!
I'm voting for Cynthia McKinney, maybe you can dig up some dirt on her too.
Hi Lisa,
You like to pick on Ralph for supposedly having Raytheon stock, so let's pick apart Obama's stock portfolio:
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10342170/2/picking-apart-obamas-stock-portfolio.html
Obama sold his Skyterra holdings on Nov. 1, 2005, when the stock closed at $31. Based on the stock's closing price of $39.10 on Feb. 10, the day he bought the shares, he recorded a loss of about 21% on the investment.
While Obama ultimately lost money on his stock trades, these two moves do raise the question of whether there are ethical issues that should have restrained the senator from investing in shares of such unusual companies at a time when they were benefiting from federal funding.
"Homeland Security is a field that has really sprung up in the years following the [terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001], and you have a lot of small companies that are vying for a lot of big government contracts," says Massie Ritsch, the communications director for Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan organization that tracks money and influence in U.S. politics. "When the people controlling the purse strings for government contracts are invested in the companies that stand to get those contracts, it definitely raises ethical questions."
Lisa,
"I'm sick of you people that don't address your boy's cluster-bombs investments when I point them out, but rather make incorrect-invalid comparisons to my small world."
-Most of Obama's investments are tied up with conservative mutual funds. Obama also has stock with Skyterra Communications and AVI Biopharma, both happen to get a lot of money from a source Obama should be familiar with: the federal government.
Aside from sharing the same deep-pocketed benefactor, the two have one more thing in common. They both provide services in an area that has become a hot-button issue on Capitol Hill and with the electorate: homeland security.
Lisa are you ok with Obama's homeland security investments but not ok with Ralph's having Raytheon stock?
Is there a conflict of interest there for Obama? You claim Ralph is responsible for Raytheon manufacturing cluster bombs. Is it okay to pin any and all inappropriate activities and purchases made by Homeland Security on Obama because of his stocks as a kind of tit for tat?
Is there a conflict of interest there for Obama? Is Obama better than Ralph because his investment are with companies that eat at the government's Homeland Security trough instead of the MIC trough?
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
that right there just sent a severe chill down my spine... and after what he just did with FISA... makes you wonder just how much change this guys is after?
yet i'm no less afraid then mccains bomb iran parody... and his constant avowing that he did not get into politics for any social idea...
well then why isnt anyone asking a man that spent 5 yrs as a pow... exactly WHY he got into politics.... either way i think we're all screwed.... just in different ways!
and i just love all the name calling...
i used to belong to another site that was supposed to be neutral so that all opinions could be expressed and discussed in an intelligent manner... yet anytime anyone had anything critical to say of the govt.. bush... the war... anything... it was always with this critical personalized name calling anti amercian rhetoric that usually had me seeing red...
at the end of the day... we are not democrats... republicans... green party ... libraterians or independents... at the end of the day we are all AMERICANS!!!!
and its important that the us against them... isnt amongst us "common" folk... but those in govt that have sworn to do one thing... and immediately begin doing something else that is NEVER in the common good of the AMERICAN people... once they get into office
why has there never been any legislation instituted that holds politicians accountable to failed or ignored campaign promises once they are in office?
wouldnt you just love to see that vote outcome? lol
every party... every candidate has its demons and its issues....and if anyone believes otherwise... then step away from the koolaid for a bit... clear your head and rethink....
what it boils down to... unless we can ever get back on track... and i cant see that happening with out some truth being exposed (without spin trying to either down play or incite).... some serious sole searching from all of us... those in politics and those that enable them to behave in such craven ways... we will NEVER get anywhere and never get any better... for who ever is in office will serve the good of their own personal agendas and ideology and it just depends on what sect of the public will suffer more or less!
today we have an oil man that spent his first year in office mostly on vacation and then spent the rest of his time in office committing this country to war! and in-between all that warmongering... spent some serious time divesting the citizens of all... i mean ALL of our liberties and freedoms!!!
so while ppl go hungry.... while ppl decide... food.. gas... health care... clothing... shelter... those in office are playing with us... like some game of battleship.... moving pieces around on a board for whatever means benefit the ends... testing how far they can push us before we all crack!
and at the end of the day... we foot the bill...
the time for reckoning will come soon enough... the truth will out as it always does... the question is... will any of us be around to witness it?
pay attention to the laws that are being passed by both dems and reps and there your story is told...
if you are a TRUE patriotic American... then you will not hate your fellow man that questions authority... but hate those that would subvert the law of this once proud nation... even if it means looking in the mirror!
the election has already been decided... this idea of a free election and campaigning for our votes is just for ppls amusement...
as a side note… has anyone else noticed how many ppl have been dropping dead lately in and around the "political" arena?
i'm not paranoid conspiracy theorist... i'm just a scared realist wondering outloud...
if mccain wins... should I apply for citizenship elsewhere?
if obama wins... should I apply for citizenship elsewhere?
where are the annuki when you need them... as it seems we cant save ourselves from our own... we are forever looking for the hero/savior to come kick down the doors of the unjust and evil in the 11th hour like some modern day john wayne...
prepare for the worst and hope for the best...
with over 800 fema camps being built by Halliburton and others... the repeal of posse comitatus and the melding of our military alongside our civilian police... with food poisonings and wild weather devastating crops across the nation and the world! disease and famine.... do you HONELSTY think it matters who's going to win this rigged election?
and for those of you that pishaw all that... and think i'm nuts i just have one question for you... why would THEY go through all this trouble to build and institute laws that contradict the bill of rights and so many other laws instituted to protect the citizenry of this country from rogue politicians... if they didnt intend to use any of it?
prepare for the worst... hope for the best!
and when the dust settles maybe we'll be able to say that we learned from our mistakes... (year right.... cause apparently hitlers reich just didnt happen long enough ago for our "scholars" to truly impact us with this sage wisdom of what happens when corporations run govts)
another side note: any wonder why norad was moved? any wonder why our analog signals are being taken away?
anyone paying attention to the small stories in the news... like the black box warning from the fda regarding cipro (the antibiotic that recovers ppl from anthrax) or the fact that the fda cant locate this latest spread of food poisoning across the US... or so mannnnny other stories and dont you ever start piecing them together and go... ah ha?
or even...
hmmmmm?
does it really matter who YOU are going to vote for... maybe the more important question here needs to be... who your representative is planning on voting for...
oh and here's another question....
WTF is a "super" delegate?
no cars.. no banks... no food... no homes... living off the grid?
isnt that what alot of ppl have been forced to do lately and not by choice?
maybe with the polar caps melting there will be new property for sale.... wonder which govt is going to claim these new land masses as theirs?
I vote for barney frank as president and t boone pickens for vp... there... that's who I vote for... anyone else with me?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz....I was responding to some idiot poster that compared My having a bank account, which I don't,
To Nader having money in Raytheon/Cluster bombs, Which he does.
I'm sick of you people that don't address your boy's cluster-bombs investments when I point them out, but rather make incorrect-invalid comparisons to my small world.
That's insulting the messenger because you don't like the message.
Yes, I ride a bike, don't bank, don't heat my home. And do volunteer work.
And I grow what I smoke and some of what I eat. Don't compare me to that scum ralph nader again.
Holier than thou? Thanks for the insult. Here is reality; we are as holy as the way we treat our brothers and sisters and the planet.
I do better than some. Not as well as mmany.
But I'm no DC lawyer with money in Cluster Bombs, Halliburton Or General Dynamics.
Compared to that Financial Ssupporter of Murder, I'm a Saint.
Becasue you see, EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE.
Signed, Holier than the Assholes in DC.
lisa321,
I didn't know you are a Obama supporter, how do you justify such a hypocritical stance?
You claim "i don't drive.
I don't use a bank.
I never ever go to a gas station."
Well, good for you. But aren't you being a little "holier than thou"?
Try reading this:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/25/8508/
"Because other than using electricity, I'm off grid,"
You know, I think that phrase in usually applied primarily TO electricity and the internet, hence the "grid". Do you think a guilt by association case could be applied to your use of electricity? Is it all solar or are you giving your money to the largest energy corporations?
You use the internet, right? But that was developed by the US military! By your logic, you are supporting the US military! You probably own a computer made by a corporation with defense contracts!!! Do you really think you are immune from guilt by association? Do you pay income or sales taxes?
But I suppose your never buy a single consumer product or anything that would require being transported from one location to another. You don't own a TV. You don't eat meat and you grow your own food as well as cotton by which to sew your own clothes. I suppose your kids will walk to school - that's nice if they live nearby - but a drag if they live twenty miles away.
Is this really a workable solution? No cars and no banks?
Vast numbers of everyday people do use banks and drive. Are you condemning all of them?
commonsensePDX July 18th, 2008 12:59 pm
We are certainly glad you love us and we love to be loved, but this is a liberal site.
commonsensePDX July 18th, 2008 1:46 pm
"yes, I'm sorry, you wouldn't want anyone to debate with as you are so openminded as oppossed to those closeminded, simple conservatives"
I didn't mean it that way, I meant liberal as opposed to Progressive. Come on in by all means. Speak up. Anyone is welcome here as long as they are civil.
What is your point?
and your post, commonsense, is that what you call openminded?
That pressured stream of characterizations and name calling, of sarcasm and convinced self righteousness, is that a demonstration of the openness of your mind? Does that stand for you as an invitation to debate?
Why would anyone want to debate with a Fox News jukebox?
yes, I'm sorry, you wouldn't want anyone to debate with as you are so openminded as oppossed to those closeminded, simple conservatives.
commonsensePDX July 18th, 2008 12:59 pm
We are certainly glad you love us and we love to be loved, but this is a liberal site.
wow, I love these progressive sites for unrestricted blabbering on why liberals are really mainsteam, why anyone who ever goes to church or believes in God is a mindless follower not worthy of opinion, and how can government not be the answer? Oh, and everything will be better after we let Obama move to the center to get elected so we can institute our own progressive agenda once we've fooled the right wing, ignorant lemmings who actually believe in working hard, the opportunity that America stands for that actually attracts more immigrants than any other nation on earth. So, keep it up, soak the americans who have worked hard, made something of themselves, and for their children. Take it all away for the people who are unwilling to do what it takes to succeed in a land of democracy, equal opportunity that is the light of the world.
Hi Lisa. Couple questions for you. You are really down on Ralph because he has Raytheon stock. Do you know who Obama has stock with? Obama actually wants top increase military spending.
Obama: "We need more troops, more helicopters, more satellites, more Predator drones in the Afghan border region...etc. Obama has called for increasing the military by 90,000 troops. More military spending equates to more money for the Military Industrial Complex which Raytheon is a part of.
Lisa did you know Predator drones are used to assassinate people extra judicially? Helicopters are used to kill people too.
You hate Nader because he has stock in the MIC but probably are unaware of Obama's stocks and bonds plus you are aware Obama is calling for more military spending on top of the fact we already spend more on "defense" than the rest of the world combined.
In addition, military overspending starves domestic programs that help people. Why is it okay for Obama to call for increasing military spending but you bash Nader for his stocks?
Do you see the contradiction in your position? In other words, Ralph Nader, with all his worts is head and shoulders more progressive than Obama. How do you know Obama doesn't put money into cluster bombs too? You also haven't made a case for not supporting other 2nd parties in an effort to build them up and make them viable.
Your position of attacking Ralph and giving Obama a pass is silly!
Hello? There is another thread going about Satire?????
Yeah, I was being Satirical above, but some jackassette didn't get it and lectured me! Cool!.
Hey zzz, I don't have any "money" so there is none in any bank.
SO MY MONEY AINT INVESTED IN RAYTHEON/CLUSTER BOMBS LIKE NADERS.
Many of you Naderites trill loudly, but I point out in detail he's got money in cluster bombs and there is NO EFFORT to refute or answer that.
Instead I'm told I'm no better or different because I probably use a bank.
i don't drive.
I don't use a bank.
I never ever go to a gas station.
I don't have any fucking money-but I'm rich.
Because other than using electricity, I'm off grid, I did not even heat my home last winter I'm so goddamn poor. I could see my breath.
So what? I'm not that DC lawyer asshole Ralph Nader: Dudes, his money was in PETRO-CHINA, in Darfur, before embarressment forced divestiture. G.E.N.O.C.I.D.E.
Insult me at your own peril. Most soft bellied, never been hungry little liberals ain't been there. Homeless, Four days once without ANY food, beaten by police, separated from my kids by the law until I got sole custody of them and raised them alone.
I got no portfolio, but my integrity is intact. Now I help feed hungry people. But I don't put money in cluster bombs like Ralph.
MiMiCcS July 18th, 2008 2:04 am
I see your logic and you make some very good points: "McCain would be the best hope for the right to finally wake up that the Republican party of today is evil, and join with the left who are waking up to the fact the Congressional Democrats are in league with the neocons."
That's why "the sky is falling quick vote for a Democrat" doesn't work for me either. I don't care if McCain wins for the reasons you stated.
My rationale for voting for McKinney instead of Nader is like yours: "But he only runs for the matching contributions which keeps his organization alive..."
But on the other hand. the Greens are trying to build an organization so if they can get the matching funds that would be a good thing. No?
You wrote: "I want to win whomever the elites does not want to win." That is another good point.
As in other recent campaigns, lawyers account for the biggest chunk of Democratic donations. They have donated about $18 million to Obama, compared with about $5 million to John McCain, according to data released on June 2 and available at OpenSecrets.org.
DJM July 17th, 2008 10:50 pm
Thomas More said;"I can't believe Obama suggested this. I am appalled…." You must be the shill ezeflyer accused you of being….
Oh yeah, you are the folks that are fond of making accusations and then disappearing.
I read Obam's speech. Are you suggesting that he lied in his speech and I just didn't get it?
Since you both insist on making it personal and you do or you would have said "have you lost your mind, didn't you see this or that was a lie"
ezeflyer July 17th, 2008 9:30 pm
You keep making accusatioons and then can't come up with specifics. Where are the posts that I made you say are "unempathitic" and all the rest?
So as I said, since you have made it personal allow me to express my contempt for you little kiddo's.
lisa321 wrote: "The article failed to mention Gramm is a DEMOCRAT."
That is an outright falsehood. He originally ran for Congress as a Democrat and served as a Democrat for 5 years, before resigning and then successfully running in a special election for his own vacated seat as a Republican.
He spied on the Democratic caucus in budget meetings while he was nominally a Democrat, secretly giving their legislative strategy to the Republicans and helping get Reagan's first budget passed. Is this the behavior of a Democrat?
He had a (D) behind his name for 5 years while in Congress and an (R) behind his name for the next 20 as a Representative and Senator. Somehow, lisa321 still thinks of him as a Democrat.
Seriously, try to know what you're talking about before posting.
Well, the article's headline draws us into what is we might expect to be an exposition of what we have to fear from McCain. About three quarters of the text is about Phil Gramm.
Now it isn't that I don't think Phil is a dandy target for such polemics, but let's call the article "Watch Out for Uncle Phil if McCain is Elected!!"
I realize that people over in the U.K. mostly have to deal with the fallout (word deliberately chosen) from our foreign policy, but those of us at home here in the Good Ol' U. S. of A. will have to deal with our president's doMEStic policies as well. McCain is LOTS more dangerous MUCH more immediately to US.
He has already clearly stated that he will continue to push the courts to the right, especially the Supreme Court, which, now that Congress has fashioned itself into the hood ornament on the Unitary Executive, is our last remaining hope for a brake on the slippery slope toward Fascism.
He has let it be known, as a byproduct of his judicial appointments, that he will be looking to have Roe v Wade overturned. Women across this country are looking at a kind of Federal Reproductive Police State.
Yeah, he has used Philly the Gramm as a financial advisor and THAT should get our attention, there is no doubt. If Phil is brought into the administration of a John McCain as anything higher than a Greeter WE are the ones who will feel the pain.
On the international front: "Bomb,bomb, bomb ... bombbomb Iran" and "Maybe that's a way to kill them." referring to selling cigs in Iran, are NOT JOKES in a prospective Commander in Chief of the United States armed forces, they are chilling unguarded glimpses into the mentality of the candidate.
The real bottom line question, though, remains: Do you want to continue to follow the course we're on?
Obama is not our savior. He is a young Chicago politician with a background of community activism and a history of positioning himself where his activities will be best supported. He has assembled an organization of extremely capable and knowledgeable people and has been following their advice in matters where he lacks expertise.
That's not a bad set of traits in a chief executive.
That vote for this FISA legislation left a baaaad taste in my mouth. Didn't like it at ALL and I want him to explain why he voted for that.
As he moves into the general campaign I expect he will continue to position himself closer and closer to the center.
That's what politicians DO in national elections.
Obama won't save us AND: He seems to know how to build an effective organization and use it and he's not on rails to keep going in the direction we've been going for the past seven and a half years.
That's good enough for me right now.
lisa321,
Do you use a bank?
If so, the bank will invest your money in the same way as Nader invests his.
Were you being Satirical or do you keep your money under a pillow?
MiMiCcS "in an ideal world Nader will win"
In this ideal world will he sfinally divest himself of his hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in Fidelity-Magellan?
They're holdings include Raytheon-Cluster Bombs
General Dynamics-Bombs and Missiles.
Halliburton-You heard of them?
Nader is invested in these killers. You support McCain?
You think Nader is "perfect?"
That thinking is illogical. No personal insult coneyed.
But your analyses miss Nader's munitions holdings,
And McCains involvemnent in the Savings and Loan Scandal. Have you heard of it?
McCAIN NAPALMED CHILDREN-made FIFTY runs over CIVILIAN targets before being shot down over a CIVILIAN area.
McCain has referred to the economy as a "credit cunt"
He was calling VietNamese Gooks for decades.
He left his wife when whe was badly hurt.
But you MiMiCcS Support him? Were you being Satirical?
tailcap- in the ideal world Nader will win. But he only runs for the matching contributions which keeps his organization alive, and there is zero chance. Obama or McCain will win.
The money power backs Obama. My state will vote Democrat by a wide majority, so I won't bother to vote. My mental vote for McCain, no pun intended, is simply because I do not trust Obama. It is more of an anti-Obama vote. His book is disturbing.
While we are screwed with either one, I think Obama can cause more internal divisions and chaos in the US than McCain, he can charm like a snake and people will follow him over the abyss. Neither will give up war, imperialism or the economic fraud that is our current economic system. McCain would be the best hope for the right to finally wake up that the Republican party of today is evil, and join with the left who are waking up to the fact the Congressional Democrats are in league with the neocons. The left already oppose the neocons and will be suckered into relaxing their guard if a Democratic President is in, thinking the danger has passed. The right will unite in their opposition to the Democrats, and all that goes wrong will be blamed on them, while the left will blame the 8 years of Bush policies for their Presidents failures.
Thats why they change leadership every 8 years, to keep people divided, left vs right. There is no difference of course, the downward spiral will continue no matter who is in charge, because that is what the power wants.
Daniel David; Maybe you don't read Common Dream's threads.
You are going to VOTE FOR OBAMA?
The article failed to mention Gramm is a DEMOCRAT.
Gore would not have been 1% better than George Murder Bush.
What, you still subscribe to that tired two-party lie?
There is only one, because the "two" are EXACTLY the same.
Vote Nader for Change: He invests in America! Like RAYTHEON! WHO MAKES CLUSTER BOMBS! (via his Fidelity Magellan Holdings)
Maybe you just don't support investing in America Daniel David.
Obama '08. Yeah, he's the lesser of a lot evils, by a country mile. The dynamically blind who do not 'want' to see that need to read the above article carefully. Or have it explained to them by an adult if necessary.
PS; Naderlovers, tell your creep to dump his $ in CLUSTER BOMBS, Dow Chemicals and Halliburton.
Hilarious: You're 'man' "Ralph" is 'the greater' of one whole hell of a lot of evils, and he's the most hysterically, emotinally cited example on CD of a good third party candidates.
Obama or McCain. Hmmmm, geeee, oon principle I'm voting for Jesus, because only Jesus is perfect.
ANY OTHER CHOICE is "lesserevilism"
MiMiCcS July 17th, 2008 8:03 pm writes "That's it for me, I am voting McCain"
-why not for for McKinney, Nader or 2nd party?
If your rationale is to vote against what the establishment wants then vote for one of them because Obama and McCain are status quo, establishment candidates to the bone.
Voting for 2nd parties opens up the possibility of us getting the necessary 5% vote needed to qualify for matching funds.
Thomas More said;"I can't believe Obama suggested this. I am appalled...." You must be the shill ezeflyer accused you of being....or maybe you just didn't go read the entire article. It is a half truth at the most. This reminds me of the lazy ones who can't be bothered to check the claims made in those right wing email rants. They just send them on to all their contacts like they are told to do because it includes the lie that "I already checked this out, and it is true" Damn lazy!
ezeflyer: "Are you on drugs?
Vote McKinney, vote McCain, what's the difference?"
Why do you keep pointing out in every single discussion the obvious fact that Nader and McKinney aren't going to be elected president this cycle (or any election cycle in the foreseeable future)?
Do you think we are all idiots, or is it something else?
When Bush ran for office, no reporters mentioned the savings & loan debacle exposed brilliantly both in Mother Jones Magazine (an article then entitled, "Bush Family Values") and in the book, "Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings & Loans," by Stephen Pizzo.
This group of sophisticated thieves will not be content until it's ALL gone. I sometimes wonder if delegates from China will come to our nation and bid on things like the Washington Monument when it's clear the US cannot pay its enormous debt.
DANIEL DAVID: I wrote something to you on yesterdays thread: "Voices Missing from Op-Ed." You might find it interesting.
And the repug shills crawl out of the woodwork.
MiMiCcS July 17th, 2008 8:03 pm
Thank you. I can't believe Obama suggested this. I am appalled. Added to all his lack of answers to legitimate questions and his threat of a pre-emptive strike in Packistan......This may decide me.
Gramms legislation was signed by who? And remember, Greenspan supported it.
At least McCain is not talking about setting up Hitlers Brwon Shirts or Mussolini's Black Shirts.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-national-servicejul03,0,5754842.story
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set," he said Wednesday. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Funy how MSM does not pick this up. That's it for me, I am voting McCain (subject to his VP choice is acceptable or not). The Money and MSM (despite the bashing in July that nobody will recall when the general campaign really starts this fall) are clearly behind Obama. I want to win whomever the elites does not want to win.
Oh, and read his book Dreams From My Father. If you have not, you are not informed enough to vote.
Both Obama and McCain will keep us in Iraq, expand the war in Afghanistan, and give us one more war be it Iran or somewhere else. Obama will give us Carbon cap and trade, and McCain seems to have backed off this. But at least I will be able to criticize McCain without being labelled a racist. Obama means a journey back to the 60's, but instead of sex drugs and rock and roll, he will provide us with a Hitler Youth Corp with service and responsibilities, and having kids turn in their parents for being 9/11 Truthers, anti-globalists and global warming deniers. Fascism will come out of the closet under Obama.
We are still toast, either one. My bet is McCain won't toast us as bad as Obama.
Send this silly ditz to the Old Soldiers' Home.
Obama hasn't said so much as a single word against the financial oligarchy that rules the country. He hasn't made serious criticisms of deregulation, & happens to be on the receiving end of far more Wall Street loot (aka "contributions") than McCain is. Instead of hiring a well-known asshole like Phil Gramm as his economics advisor, he's hired other less-well known assholes, including some Milton Friedman types.
Like the typical two-faced Democrat, Obama appears on the surface to be not nearly as crazy as McCain. He's better at public relations & image management. But in terms of policy & practise, he'll be pretty much the same as McCain. He'll serve the same interests, and he'll serve them very well. That's why they're investing in him.
There is no way out of this relentless downward spiral, if the 2-party tyranny is not broken.
Are you on drugs?
Vote McKinney, vote McCain, what's the difference?
And what about Obama? He's no different from Mccain and if shitfaces such as Daniel "shut up and vote Democrap" David want to argue about it, I say BRING IT ON !
Hari's argument reminds me of people who said we had to elect Clinton to protect Welfare - before he gutted it.
For us "leftists" as they like to call us, lesser-evilism has gotten very old, and easy to debunk. Johann Hari tries to put new spin on lesser-evilism, it involves only talking about the evil and leaves the lesser for you to conclude is the better alternative. Notice Obama isn't even mentioned.
We already know McCain is a Republican, which is all we need to know. Nice try. Vote McKinney, Nader or 2nd Party!
Unfortunately the US electorate loves its cowboys and bad boys more than ever. If Governator Arnold had been born in the US, the 2008 presidential election would have been over before it started...nobody in their right mind would have challenged him from either party.
No thanks. I don't plan to "love McCainomics". I plan to see Barack and Michelle elected. The "key" is not bashing McCain on his ignorance of this or that, although it never hurts to be aware of his cluelessness. The "key" is separating him from the vote of evangelicals on the single point that the God of their church cannot possibly be calling them to vote for Republicans who could not nominate anyone but a smart-aleck, wife-dumping beer distributor.