The Motivation for Blocking Investigations Into Bush Lawbreaking
Harper's Scott Horton yesterday interviewed Jane Mayer about her new book, The Dark Side. The first question he asked was about the Bush administration's fear that they would be criminally prosecuted for implementing what the International Red Cross had categorically described as "torture."
Mayer responded "that inside the White House there [had] been growing fear of criminal prosecution, particularly after the Supreme Court ruled in the Hamdan case that the Geneva Conventions applied to the treatment of the detainees," and that it was this fear that led the White House to demand (and, of course, receive) immunity for past interrogation crimes as part of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. But Mayer noted one important political impediment to holding Bush officials accountable for their illegal torture program:
An additional complicating factor is that key members of Congress sanctioned this program, so many of those who might ordinarily be counted on to lead the charge are themselves compromised.
As we witness not just Republicans, but also Democrats in Congress, acting repeatedly to immunize executive branch lawbreaking and to obstruct investigations, it's vital to keep that fact in mind. With regard to illegal Bush programs of torture and eavesdropping, key Congressional Democrats were contemporaneously briefed on what the administration was doing (albeit, in fairness, often in unspecific ways). The fact that they did nothing to stop that illegality, and often explicitly approved of it, obviously incentivizes them to block any investigations or judicial proceedings into those illegal programs.
In December of last year, The Washington Post revealed:
Four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
The article noted that other Democratic members who received briefings on the CIA's interrogation program included Jay Rockefeller and Jane Harman. While Harman sent a letter to the CIA asking questions about the legality of the program, none ever took any steps to stop or even restrict the interrogation program in any way.
Identically, numerous key Democrats in Congress -- including Rockefeller and Harman -- were told that Bush had ordered the NSA to spy on American without warrants and outside of FISA. None of them did anything to stop it. In fact, while Rockefeller wrote a sad, hostage-like, handwritten letter to Dick Cheney in 2003 (which he sent to nobody else) -- assuring Cheney that he would keep the letter locked away "to ensure that I have a record of this communication" -- Harman was a vocal supporter of the illegal NSA program. Here's what she told Time in January, 2006 in the wake of the NYT article revealing the NSA program:
Some key Democrats even defend it. Says California's Jane Harman, ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee: "I believe the program is essential to U.S. national security and that its disclosure has damaged critical intelligence capabilities."
Harman then went on Fox News and pronounced that the NSA program was "legal and necessary" and proudly said: "I support the program." Even worse, in February, 2006, Harman went on "Meet the Press" and strongly suggested that the New York Times should be criminally prosecuted for having reported on the illegal program. And indeed, in 2004, Harman demanded that the NYT's Eric Lichtblau not write about the NSA program. As Lichtblau wrote in his recent book about a 2004 conversation with Harman:
"You should not be talking about that here," she scolded me in a whisper. "They don't even know about that," she said, gesturing to her aides, who were now looking on at the conversation with obvious befuddlement. "The Times did the right thing by not publishing that story," she continued. I wanted to understand her position. What intelligence capabilities would be lost by informing the public about something the terrorists already knew -- namely, that the government was listening to them? I asked her. Harman wouldn't bite. "This is a valuable program, and it would be compromised,' she said. I tried to get into some of the details of the program and get a better understanding of why the administration asserted that it couldn't be operated within the confines of the courts. Harman wouldn't go there either. "This is a valuable program," she repeated.
In light of this sordid history of active complicity, is it really any wonder that these leading Democrats are desperate to quash any investigations or judicial adjudications of Bush administration actions that they knew about and did nothing to stop, in some cases even actively supporting?
Yesterday, I was on Warren Olney's To the Point discussing the FISA controversy. The guest interviewed immediately before me was Jane Harman (and before her was Lichtblau). Harman was vigorously spouting every false talking point to defend her vote in favor of telecom immunity and the new FISA law, including the painfully absurd claim that the new FISA law actually "makes the law stronger than the original law. It's a better law." She kept saying things like this to justify her support for terminating the lawsuits arising out of the illegal NSA program:
OLNEY: But back to the question, though, of the phone companies. Why was it that one company, Qwest, seemed to think that there were serious questions to be raised about this and the others didn't? Can you tell us that?
HARMAN: Well, I respect what Qwest did. Qwest said that the strict letter of FISA isn't being followed, as I understand it. That was some very careful lawyering.
The other telecoms that complied with requests believed -- so they say -- that they were complying with valid requests from the Government. And remember that when this happened, it was shortly after 9/11 and so forth --
OLNEY: Yeah, but if they didn't, and privacy was violated, shouldn't they be held to account?
HARMAN: I think that a process should be followed. I think the people who should be held to account are the people who made the decision not to follow FISA, and those were not the telecom executives.
Actually, "the people who made the decision not to follow FISA" most certainly did include the telecom executives -- as well as people like Jane Harman herself who, in her capacity as ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, was told about the illegal spying program and supported it as "legal and necessary," and even tried to bully journalists into refraining from exposing it.
Exactly the same thing happened with Jay Rockefeller and Bush's torture program. It is absolutely the case that, as Mayer pointed out yesterday and as I wrote about at the time, Bush officials faced serious danger of criminal liability in the wake of the 2006 Hamdan ruling that the Geneva Conventions applied to Al Qaeda and Taliban detainees. But the Military Commissions Act, passed several months after the Hamdan ruling, took care of that problem by immunizing the lawbreakers. Jay Rockefeller was right there supporting that retroactive immunity, too -- thereby helping to block investigations and prosecutions for illegal torture programs about which Rockefeller knew and in which he was complicit.
This is exactly the dynamic which Law Professor, Fourth Amendment expert, and Simple-Minded, Confused Leftist Hysteric Jonathan Turley was describing on MSNBC on June 19:
I mean, the Democrats never really were engaged in this. In fact, they repeatedly tried to cave in to the White House, only to be stopped by civil libertarians and bloggers. And each time they would put it on the shelf, wait a few months, they did this before, reintroduced it with Jay Rockefeller's support, and then there was another great, you know, dustup and they pulled it back. . . .
I think they're simply waiting to see if the public's interest will wane and we'll see that tomorrow, because this bill has, quite literally, no public value for citizens or civil liberties. It is reverse engineering, though the type of thing that the Bush administration is famous for, and now the Democrats are doing -- that is to change the law to conform to past conduct.
It's what any criminal would love to do. You rob a bank, go to the legislature, and change the law to say that robbing banks is lawful. . . .
This is a very frightening bill. What people have to understand is that FISA itself is controversial. This court issued tens of thousands of warrants granted applications for surveillance without turning down any. Only recently did they turn down two. . . . What you're seeing in this bill is an evisceration of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution. It is something that allows the president and the government to go in to law-abiding homes on their word alone, their suspicion alone, and to engage in warrantless surveillance. That's what the framers that drafted the Fourth Amendment wanted to prevent. . . .
Well, there's no question in my mind that there is an obvious level of collusion here. We now know that Democratic leadership knew about the illegal surveillance program almost from its inception. Even when they were campaigning about fighting for civil liberties, they were aware of an unlawful surveillance program as well as a torture program. And ever since that came out, the Democrats have been silently trying to kill any effort to hold anyone accountable because that list could very well include some of their own members.
And, I'm afraid this is Washington politics at the worst. And, so, I think that what you're seeing with this bill is not just caving in to a very powerful lobby, but also caving in to sort of the worst motivations on Capitol Hill since 9/11. You know, the administration was very adept at bringing in Democrats at a time when they knew they couldn't refuse, to make them buy in to this program, and now that investment is bearing fruit.
So, of course key Congressional Democrats who were made aware of these illegal torture and surveillance programs are going to protect the Bush administration and other lawbreakers. If you were Jay Rockfeller or Nancy Pelosi, would you want there to be investigations and prosecutions for torture programs that, to one degree or another, you knew about? If you were Jane Harman, wouldn't you be extremely eager to put a stop to judicial proceedings that were likely to result in a finding that surveillance programs that you knew about, approved of, and helped to conceal were illegal and unconstitutional?
When President Bush and Vice President Cheney celebrated the signing of the new FISA bill at the White House along with Jay Rockefeller, Steny Hoyer and Jane Harman (see the wonderful photos here), they weren't just celebrating with the political officials who helped protect them from consequences for illegal acts. They were celebrating with those who were participants in those acts, and who were therefore just as eager for immunity and an end to judicial proceedings as Bush officials themselves.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy.
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116 Comments so far
Show AllAlmost Forgot GO!!!!!!!!!!!!! CINDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH my my wouldn't it be nice if she got in.
PUT SOME MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS
SEND HER $ HERE http://www.cindyforcongress.org/article.php?id=38
Its going to be a cold day in hell before this war machine is stopped.Eventually Russia and China will cash in the bonds necessary to crash this country without a bullet being fired. Then when alot of us start getting hungry you will witness these bastards being dragged through the streets.
A beneficial Military coup might happen if they keep abusing the Armed forces the way they have. Desperate times, Desperate measures.
"incentivizes"?? when the hell did that become a word???
Get in there, Cindy, and get elected. We all need another good congressperson, and San Francisco should just damn show the way! We love you! Keep up the good fight to stop the neo con loonies!
If I lived in San Francisco, I'd vote for you Cindy Sheehan. You have my best wishes for victory in the election!
Make the slimeballs an offer: the first 50 of them to squeal get a 'Get out of Jail Free Card'. All the rest are to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Allow the Ceo's and the Congressional receivers of graft or lobbyists favors, (same thing pretty much), to keep 10% tax and penalty free. The rest goes to the relief funds for persons damaged by the avaricious war.
And, Ascott, Bush doesn't have to go to the Hague to be prosecuted. He broke American laws and can, and should, be prosecuted in the US.
ezeflyer do you get paid to be a Democrat apologist?
At least corrupt people like Randi Rhodes, Thom Hartman and others (on the 'left') get paid a ton of money to lie. But if you're doing it for free, you're their perfect type of fool.
Mordechai Shiblikov wrote:
"As many of us already knew, Nancy Pelosi was complicit in the crimes of the Bush Administration. As a result, no impeachment. She is the one who should be impeached and/or recalled. How about it California?"
You mean, how about it San Francisco? San Francisco, thought by most to be the most left leaning large city in the nation, won't get rid of Pelosi because of the money she can bring to "The City" ( as San Franciscans call it). They mostly like Pelosi and don't think of her as a Bush quisling. You can forget about getting rid of her. However, if the economy of the United States collapses . . . that's a different scenario."
The key word hear are "thought by most", which does not necessarily mean that SF is the most left leaning city. I speak from experience, as someone who lives in the area.
While it is true that there are many left-leaning folk (ranging from those wearing their O-bomb-'em t-shirts to real live anarchists) there are plenty of right-wingers here as well. Matt Gonzales (Green candidate) was narrowly defeated by Gavin Newsom, who had the support of the Getty family fortune and plenty of financial district and conservative money behind his (smear and fear) campaign for mayor.
The MSM loves to portray SF as a city where anything goes with gay men walk around wearing chaps with nothing underneath in order to reinforce the image that we all all liberal free-loving, kookies nutcases out here. But walk just a few blocks from the Castro and you'll find Asian communities that where nearly everyone goes to Baptist church on Sunday, or Financial district folk driving around in their Hummers with "Amerikkka will win the war on terror" bumper stickers. My neck of the woods (a majority Asian community) is VERY conservative.
And let's not forget our Senator Diane-never-met-an-AIPAC-lobbyist-she-didn't-like Feinstein. Plenty of Zionists out here too.
So when you say "How's about it, San Francisco?"....I can only answer "How's about it (insert your city here)."
There are plenty of misguided, stupid, and propagandized people everywhere. Including San Francisco. If you want to address the problem of Pelosi (and I agree, she is a BIG problem) then you get on the horn and call all of those !@#$heads in congress who are supporting her in keeping impeachment "off the table", particularly the ones from whatever state you live in (I'm guessing denial). Because without any support she wouldn't be able to keep anything on or off the table.
Alas, as Gore Vidal has so aptly put it, what we have in this country is a one-party system with two right wings. Reps like Pelosi and Di-Fi or O-Bomb-'em only prove that. If you want change, you'll have to change the one-party system. Just voting Pelosi out will do nothing to change that.
Come on over to my house and I'll happily join you for a Molotov Cocktail if you wish......
generallee wrote: So, stonetool thinks he\she has discovered something that can cause a person to tell the truth or at least reveal valid, or useful information just by torturing. And, even claim it to be moral as well. When you twist logic and truth it becomes a lie.
Honestly examining the possible justifications for torture one can hardly HONESTLY say that he or she would not under certain circumstances resort to such tactics. To claim otherwise is to deceive yourself. If a family member were held for example by criminals and in immediate danger of death........ and you could beat the location out of one of the criminals.... would you not do so? It is silly to fail to recognize that a one size fits all set of rules fails to fill the bill. There are times any of us would set aside "morality" because it isn't "convenient", and the "greater good" is served by doing so. (our definition of greater good). This is human nature. We are all just a short step from barbarism, and civilization is but a thin veneer. You may fool yourself with your high ideals but you aren't fooling anybody who is in touch with reality.
My post was not meant in any way as a justification for the torture and abuse by this administration, but merely as an intellectual exercise to try to understand how people with the same moral upbringing and standards as the rest of us could fall into indiscriminate torture. This has been a problem with humanity that never entirely disappears.
Howard
Well, that explains it then. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Pelosi and the Democrats were protecting Bush and company. To save their own asses!! A lot of good it does to call your Senator because they vote against your wishes anyhow. I wish I never got involved with what is going on in this country. It is very disappointing and sad.
send 'em a message: support Sheehan.
What could be the role of The International Court of Law?
correction:
-What is the difference between MOST Democrats and ALMOST ALL Republicans?
-Answer: one takes a crap on the Constitution and the other cleans up the mess
This is kid's stuff.
Not the core of the matter at all.
See the book Crossing theRubicon by Michael Ruppert.
ezeflyer July 16th, 2008 11:28 am
What is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican (congressperson)?
Democrats don't like real progressives like Kucinich. That's why Democrats gave him 5% of the vote and opted for that Republican-lite, Obama instead!
Sure the Democrats have a very small handful of progressives but the majority are really Republicans. As evidence I offer that almost 40% of Hillary voters said they would rather vote for McCain than Obama. In other words they prefer the real McCoy.
They MAJORITY of Democrats:
1) Refuse to stop funding the war
2) Refuse to impeach Bush
3) Refuse to hold Bush accountable for torturing
4) Allow right-wingers like Mukasey and others to be confirmed
5) Confirmed right-wingers into the Supreme Court
6) Rubber stamp gargantuan military budgets
7) Allow Bush to spew 935 lies about the war
8) Allow Cheny to out CIA agents and defy subpoenas
9) Granted Bush and the Telecoms immunity
10) Insert your favorite Democratic Party capitulation here:Â________________________
Ok?
Or do we let the perfect become the enemy of the good?
__________________________________
Wow, I never heard THAT one before!
Sounds kind of crazy to me. After all, if we weren't so dedicated to letting the imperfect become the friend of the bad, we wouldn't be in the position we're in today!
Until this article, I wanted to believe that there was too much inherent good in people, and the only explanation for the complicity of Congress was that W had spied on his political enemies and had career, family and freedom- threatening dirt on all of them...
Which is still true, of course. But I never considered that the Dems were anything other than spineless and/or compromised...the FBI investigation of Conyers' wife, for example, bore this thinking out.
But now, GG has forced me, albeit eloquently, to the conclusion that at least some of the Dems do not wish the light to be directed at them via investigations and impeachment, because it's their asses on the line, too.
How can we continue to vote as though it matters? What other evidence do we need that our Republic is lost until we take it back the old-fashioned way?
How do you get up in the morning and not just rip your own heart out in despair?
GREENERTHANTHOU
I wasn't talkng about Congress being involved in criminal court proceedings, (though it's obvious some of them deserve seating with Bush et al. in The Hague). The investigation and trial I was referring to were the impeachment investigation (House) and trial (Senate).
What is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican (congressperson)?
Some differences are Kucinich, Feingold, Wellstone, B. Lee, Kennedy vs. GWB, Cheney, Rove, McConnell, Boner, Hatch.
Or do we let the perfect become the enemy of the good?
Glenn ROCKS! Another excellent exposure of both the Republicans and the Democrats-KUDOS! Glenn Greenwald for president! Glenn is my favorite reporter.
Republicans, but also Democrats in Congress
-Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumber
obviously incentivizes them to block any investigations
-Democrats sell out and refuse to uphold the Constitution
Identically, numerous key Democrats in Congress
-collaborators and co-conspirators
"I support the program."
-what is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican?
Answer: one takes a crap on the Constitution and the other cleans up the mess
repeatedly tried to cave in to the White House
-they are not caving in, they agree with the Republican agenda
Democrats who were made aware of these illegal torture and surveillance programs are going to protect the Bush
-that is their job
Glenn exposes the Democrats for covering up the crimes of the Republicans. A vote for a Democrat is antidemocratic and immoral given the facts.
Let's throw the traitors out! Vote for Cynthia McKinney, Nader or 3rd party!
So, stonetool thinks he\she has discovered something that can cause a person to tell the truth or at least reveal valid, or useful information just by torturing. And, even claim it to be moral as well. When you twist logic and truth it becomes a lie.
Nancy Pelosi
Jay Rockefeller
Steny Hoyer
Jane Harmon
These people are the scum of the earth, despicable hypocrites, traitors to their party, the people, and the Constitution--the worst of the worst.
THROW THESE BASTARDS OUT ON THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE (If not before)!!!
This is a lesson in perverted logic. Laws and rules are NOT carved into stone and do not demand obedience of their own accord. They are tools to govern human behavior and keep it within civilized bounds. I would hope that not one person reading this would hesitate to torture or murder..... and damn the consequences ...... when there was no doubt that the lives of their family, friends, and countrymen were in truly imminent danger, and a person who undoubtedly had knowledge that could prevent this was in their control. That is reasonable and logical, and it is NOT a crime under natural law........ if the conditions I mentioned are met. Imminent danger, and no doubt as to the knowledge and by extension complicity (for refusing to reveal information that might save lives). Unfortunately this logical and reasonable conclusion.... that setting aside our normal distaste for mistreatment abuse, torture, and murder of our fellow man is justified in these circumstances....... can be and is often extended to fishing expedition. Certainty is displaced by probability, and then by vague suspicion. We all know that these kinds of acts can be justified..... morally if not legally...... and moral justification is all we require. However we MUST guard against taking this path if at all possible and apply rigorous review to the justifications we use. We must condemn and bring to justice those who take things beyond the reasonable limits in this area. This is NOT a clear cut area...... the justifications cannot be codified as law, but those justifications do exist and are valid. It is a dangerous path to tread when treading it great discipline is vital if our humanity is to be preserved and we are not to fall into the same rationalized program of violence as the Gestapo, Stazi, and other organizations famed for their abuses and crimes against humanity. Capture someone you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt is involved in a dirty bomb plot...... or bio attack plot, or some other heinous crime against my country, and I will help you pull his fingernails out one at a time and do unspeakable things to him as needed to make him reveal his plot. This is a real moral quandary for all of us...... and in the case of Bush/Cheney, like Gobbels and Goering, once the initial step of rationalization to justify these crimes was made, they could justify anything easily in their own minds. Ultimately we have a higher power to answer to for our sins and crimes..... let us never forget that!
Howard
well, I'm not legally qualified, but I'll comment anyway.
Bush has admitted to millions of witnesses that he broke the FISA law. A federal official, including the president, who breaks this law is committing a federal felony, and the punishment is up to 5 years in jail.
Why would the Congress be involved in a criminal court proceeding? There are plenty of witnesses without any congress members involved.
The torture is a different subject. It is against international law and American law, but I'm not sure how the President would be prosecuted.
PLEASE...
A legal question to anyone out there with any kind of legal background/knowledge.
A criminal accomplice wouldn't be allowed any say in whether/how the crime he was involved in is conducted. Is that not accurate? Cops are not supposed to investigate, nor judges preside over hearings of, family, friends, business associates, etc.
Why are the criminal accomplices in Congress (the House) allowed any say in whether the crimes they facilitated are investigated? Why would they (in the Senate) be allowed to voted on their cronies' guilt or innocence?
Couldn't we investigate the accomplices first? Would federal court be the place, if, as has been stated, they can neither be impeached not recalled?
How many weasels would request a deal (please, not immunity!) and roll over on the members of the Bush administration? Couldn't they legitimately request leniency, on the grounds of having been coerced? ("Tell on us and you'll be charged with disclosing classified information" would qualify as coercion, wouldn't it?)
ANYBODY COMPETENT TO COMMENT?
tetti_tatti July 15th, 2008 1:44 pm
"That's what happens when you elect Tweedledee to investigate Tweedledum.
When will Democrats apologize to Nader?"
When the temperature in Hell falls below 32 degrees. He's much too useful to them as a scapegoat.
ezeflyer, you're supposed to vote your principles and let the Demoks take credit for any "planetary oblivion" caused by their failure to earn your vote.
unionave, jojoba is an impressive perennial oilbush/tree that can penetrate 40 ft or more down to the aquifer and efficiently draw up the minerals it needs from the rocks in the harshest desert climate and produce 200 gal or more of oil per acre with only propagation management and harvest labor inputs.
One may limit consumption of liquid fuel to 100 gal./year and write up a contract with a local small independent farmer for biofuel production, specifying a highly sustainable species such as jojoba and other criteria such as a certain standard in permaculture production, including mix of native companion plant species, no water/chemical inputs, and a topworking program to propagate the more productive genetic lines from local wild lines. An integrated harvester/oilpress seems like a promising idea. Its capacity is small so that it may be fabricated locally and easily handled and it may return the oilnut remains directly to the field.
please vote green this year, and the next, and the next and the next. Until they're all out.
Bingo! Telecomm Immunity! Compromised House members !
All too familiar.
Wow , when you turn on the light of truth these cockroachs really scramble for self Immunizing laws.
We have only seen the tip of the icburg, the only way to see the whole iceburg is if our NSA,CIA,FBI,DHS step up to save our constitution.They need to tell all.
So let me shove your patriotic Propaganda down your throats,
Do the right thing, tell all.
I know you guys read all the the dialog that has your agency names , 400 billion dollars in 5 years buys alot of computer power with fancy warranltess wire tap search engines.
Bomb,Bomb,
bomb, Bomb
If everyone in the counry wrote emails all day long for one day with the key words in it to trigger the DHS computer warrantless wire tap mechanisims, I bet we could bring them to a halt.
All of them. I'm in trouble now.
BornFreeMen
Above all, I believe that Cindy Sheehan should be in
Congress and wouldn't betray us.
And my thanks to her for the truthful work she has
done for all of us in fighting the war!
Re the spying: Watergate is a good thing?
Bush began this spying immediately upon taking office -
-- 7 MONTHS BEFORE 9/11 ---
Now, why would Democrats agree to be spied on from
the first days of Bush's administration to these closing
days?
And, of course, they know this includes them.
Does this make sense to anyone here?
We need to switch into a STRETEGY OF DELEGITIMIZING THE CORPORATE ELECTIONS
This can only work if we do it on MSM sites like those of daily newspapers. Not saying dont type here, but here and "MSM"
There are so many 20 and 30year olds who have grown up ONLY HEARING CORPORATE PROPAGANDA SO THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW RIGHT THE COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF THE MEDIA AND corporate media use the word center.
If you dont point out how far right these Bendovercrats are THEY WILL NEVER KNOW
Please type here NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6
Dont be scared to type in the Fakely labeled MSM. net. there are a lot of smart people there and you just SONT NEED TO RESPOND TO THE AIR HEADS
OTHERWISE HOW WILL ALL THE GREAT IDEAS ON THE COMMENTS SECTION SPREAD?? (WE WILL ONLY BE COOPRerating in our own marginalization...
Hw many times do the votersof this country need to be told something before they believe it?Republicans have always said they wanted smaller government.how much smaller can it get
You've still got the 2nd Amendment isn't it about time it got used
Thanks for answering my question Cindy. You are quite a lady and right up there in my book with my hero Ralph whom I campaigned for in 2000, but whom I cannot vote for this time around due to the higher risk of planetary oblivion from a McCain win.
I will vote for as many progressive Dems, Green Party candidates and Independents as I can.
Hopefully one or more of them will follow up on Senator Gravel's National Initiative and we can circumvent the oligarchy with an incorruptible direct democracy via the referendum.
Wishing you the best of luck.
QUESTION: What does Barack Obama -- that great agent of "change" -- have to say about all this?
ANSWER: Not a damn thing.
And why haven't we heard a peep about all this from Barack Obama? Because "Obama the Hustler" knows the code ... omerta.
(Shhhhhhhh.)
Barack "The Hustler" Obama, along with the Democratic Party, needs to be taught a lesson, and the lesson is simple -- unless and until progressives in the United States *withhold* their support for corporate-controlled, corporate-sponsored cnadidates, nothing is going to change.
When is enough enough? How much more obvious does it have to get for so-called liberals to realize that they're being played for chumps?
Vote Nader, or else vote McKinney, or else vote for any similar-minded candidate. If those left-wing candidates, combined, get just 10-12% of the votes, watch how quick Corporate America will take notice. Watch how quick change -- real change -- will take place.
Notice how much further to the left the general public is versus the political establishment. ... Two-thirds of the American public wants out of Iraq. ... Only 25% of the American public approves of George Bush. ... And yet so-called liberals are scared shitless when it comes to thinking critically about the "lesser of the two evils" con game.
When is enough enough? Obama should be *swamping* McCain. He should be ahead by 30+ points in the polls. Instead, he's barely ahead of McCain. And why? Because he knows what his role is -- move to the right and hope to win by appealing to those 1% or 2% of the voting public who can't decide between twiddle-dee-dee (Obama) and twiddle-de-dum (McCain).
Quoting from the following article by Bill Van Auken, "Obama's swing to right sparks warnings from "left" backers" --
"Obama's rhetoric about 'change you can believe in,' his invocations of Martin Luther King's "fierce urgency of now" and phony concern for the poor have always served to mask a right-wing capitalist program.
"When the candidate insists that he has not shifted on Iraq, he is essentially correct. His promise to 'end the war' always envisioned the continuation of the US occupation and the pursuit of the war's original predatory aims. His essential difference with McCain is over whether more troops should be shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan to escalate the US war there and potentially extend it into Pakistan.
As for domestic policy, the money that has poured into his campaign coffers from Wall Street, NEARLY TWICE the amount donated to his Republican rival John McCain, is based on the clear understanding that an Obama administration will faithfully serve America's financial oligarchy. (Capitalization added.)
"If the candidate is more openly promoting his right-wing agenda now, it is not in interests of gaining votes. Over two-thirds of the American people want an end to the war and the overwhelming majority is hostile to the Bush administration; he does not have to appeal to some vast right-wing constituency. On the contrary, Obama is making his pitch to the ruling elite, attempting to cast himself as 'presidential,' i.e., someone who is prepared to do whatever it takes to defend the interests of American capitalism, both at home and abroad."
Click here for the entire article -- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jul2008/obam-j09.shtml
"
To Cindy Sheehan,
I've written about the context of Nancy Pelosi's involvement in the torture cover-up and subsequently taking impeachment off the table.
Bush and Cheney may very well be planning an attack on Iran. It could come any day now. Nancy Pelosi knows this fact as we all do.
Such an attack could conceivably involve nuclear weapons. The Russians and Chinese may act to defend Iran. It's not beyond reason to think that WW3 could break out. Tens of millions of people may die in such a conflict. Hundreds of millions will be thrown into an economic abyss.
Nancy Pelosi is the one person who could unleash the impeachment hound, removing Bush and Cheney from office and STOP THE COMING WAR.
But she's more concerned about protecting herself from indictment.
She knows that a first year lawyer who advertises in the Yellow Pages could easily impeach and indict Bush and Cheney on at least 34 of Kucinich's 35 charges in a matter of weeks.
Pelosi is only concerned with protecting her ass and the asses of her accomplices from ending up in jail.
If war with Iran breaks out please remember that Nancy Pelosi knew she could've prevented it but chose not to.
I forgot to mention fear as a motivating factor that is the glue that holds the top elite together; the Washington crime family punishes, in very severe and nasty ways, anyone who shows even a moment of integrity or honesty. This applies especially to the inner corp of administrative elites but also to elected officials and their staff.
When I say crime family, I do mean just like the mafia; oh, maybe there are no cement boots passed out, just other methods of destroying careers and personalties.
The other factor, besides fear, is the art of shunning, cocooning or inoculating 'troublemakers' i.e, those seen as asking for too much honesty and integrity. Dennis Kucinich is a pretty good example of this. He is, in a nice way, (as far as we can tell) being shuffled off to Buffalo because he dares to ask the questions all of America is asking. He is therefor ridiculed in the mainstream press and has consistently failed to get any traction at all in Congress.
So now we know, almost all of the people in high places in this country are complacent in allowing criminal behavior to be condoned and abetted. One might ask, why do they do it.
1. They stick together for fear of being cut out of the serving up of the gravy boat of power; power that lets them associate and hang out with other moguls in the big money of the land of elitism.
2. There is a fear of letting go of a swell paying job-after all, try to find the perks, in the real job world, salary and freedom of movement that goes with a high ranking government job or seat in Congress. This leads to the next point
3. Most members of Congress and people in many other political offices, including George Bush, are out of their league. They hornswaggled, lied, cheated, electioneered and otherwise dissembled their way into public office. I've watched members of Congress very closely, as well as members of both parties in and out of office and it's always the same-use your pole vault into public office to gain more money and power and status and moments in the limelight than you might otherwise have by staying back in the hill country selling insurance. In other words, it's a real fun stage game that pays pretty good as well. But to say the truth, America has long lost, if it ever had, any element of personal integrity in leadership. I guess that's just the par for all of human history as well; the farther up the totem pole you go, the nastier the stench.
I had a dream last night that the 1000 biggest lobbyists were killed by someone who was later called insane.
The resultant improvement in government caused thousands of CEO's to jump out of windows of tall buildings.
The improvement in the economy resulted in sustainable jobs, food supply, and energy.
Unfortunately I woke up before television programming could be improved.
Biomusicilogist,
Thank-you for giving us the real-world San Francisco. Similar things can be said about other "liberal" havens like Portland oregon, of Burlington, Vermont too.
The war crimes of the Bush Administration may not allow any members of the Bush Administration and moreover congressional representatives both Republicans and Democrats to travel outside the US of A.
I'm in New York. But I just signed up to receive updates regarding Cindy Sheehan. I sent her an excerpt and the url of this. She probably has it already, but one never knows. Change isn't enough. I want improvement!
"As we witness not just Republicans, but also Democrats in Congress, acting repeatedly to immunize executive branch lawbreaking and to obstruct investigations, it's vital to keep that fact in mind."
Because what our "reps" are actually doing is immunizing themselves - the Executive Branch, the Cheney Branch and the telecoms are just the beard.
"It's what any criminal would love to do. You rob a bank, go to the legislature, and change the law to say that robbing banks is lawful..."
Actually, it'd be more like robbing a bank and then "lobbying" (read: paying off) the legislature to change the law to the one said lobbyists wrote that makes robbing banks lawful only if the robbers are also the said lobbyists...
This story made my false teeth pop out of my mouth!! I believe we need to "throw the bums" out of office, install new ones and see if they work better! If not get their butts out of office as well! I had a feeling there was some slippery movements by the Blue Dog Democrats in Congress, now I understand why!!! My blood pressure is about through the roof..Good luck Cindy I hope you win!!! I'll try to send a couple of dollars your way as well!!!
From the article:
OLNEY: But back to the question, though, of the phone companies. Why was it that one company, Qwest, seemed to think that there were serious questions to be raised about this and the others didn't? Can you tell us that?
HARMAN: Well, I respect what Qwest did. Qwest said that the strict letter of FISA isn't being followed, as I understand it. That was some very careful lawyering.
--I suspect the answer lies in a recent Qwest ad. 95% of Fortune 500 companies are Qwest customers.
Cynthia McKenney was just nominiated by the Green Party, I think....this time I am voting my heart and it will not be a Democrat or Republican. Neither of those have done a damn thing for this citizen, ever.
ezeflyer
i am probably going to vote for Cynthia McKinney who is the national honorary chair of my campaign....
I love Ralph and Matt, though, and I have their 100% support for my race...I also have the support of Mike Gravel.
anyhoo...I will NEVER vote for another warmonger again...and O'bomb'em is certainly turning out to be one of those, isn't he?
xo
Cindy
Can anybody explain to me the difference between Congressional oversight and political complicity, or between an elected official of the minority party being briefed about a classified program, and that same official then being co-opted into being a supporter should they fail to publicly voice criticism?
The 9/11 Commission's laundry list of suggestions for reform of the national security systems were all acted upon except the most important one: reform of Congressional oversight. At least on this point, the Commission had it diagnosed right.
The existing oversight system insures that the minority party's designated leadership is told about clandestine security programs in a private conference, and those so briefed are then sworn to secrecy about all that they've just heard. Not surprizingly, this dynamic virtually assures bi-partisan accountability (both legal and political) should the shit ever hit the fan.
Bush/Cheney in the brave new post-9/11 world refined and figured out how to exploit this Congressional oversight function by extending it to briefings about classified activities that were also quite clearly criminal.
Speak up about what you heard in the classified briefing, and you commit a federal felony.
Shut up about it for long enough, and you become a co-conspirator.
Clearly, what needs to be thoroughly revised is the standards governing classified information and the Congressional oversight provisions of the National Security Act of 1948 - a nice project for the next Congress to take up.
That said, I don't see how the shortcomings of the oversight system excuse the acquiescence of Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller, et al. in implicitly authorizing torture of detainees overseas by the CIA, and illegal warrantless wiretapping by NSA on American soil. Nor do I see protecting those Democratic leaders from partisan fallout as creating sufficient justification to retroactively declare that which was once illegal now to be treated as legal.
On this last point, my suspicion is that the Democrats latest legislative roll over is largely beltway mentality.
Everybody holding office in DC simply assumes their office and personal communications are all being secretly monitored by the national security bureaucracy anyway. If our elected representatives must live in such a dreary surveillance fish bowl, then why should the peons out in Peoria be heard to complain about the sanctity of their personal communications?
I mean, how could the people possibly have more rights under the Constitution than their elected leaders enjoy?
Bill from Saginaw
I had an "after thought" when reading all of these postings.
Under the present political election system, where vast sums of money are raised by lobbyists for their candidate, who then have power to win favor over that candidate would it not be wiser for more people to gather their collective power to change the system?
One might argue that the time limits to office is trumped by the election process, but is it? With the system open to so much corruption?
Are these problems not solved by human beings when the problems themselves are created by human beings?
In a five hour fit of anger and frustration, I dug up the names and contact information on the "Democratic" House & Senator traitors who voted to approve the latest version of the "Compromise FISA bill" -- which destroys our Fourth Amendment. Â I put the two lists up on the Net as websites and will now go about "promoting" them. Â Ideally, with your help, we could bring these sites to the attention of enough people to develop a viral network that could then gain critical mass among voters to remove these traitors.
Here are the sites:Â
For House "Representatives": http://www.cloudbyte.com/traitors.html
For "Senators": http://www.cloudbyte.com/senatetraitors.html
Go Cindy.
I sent you fifty buck on June 23rd. I will see if I can squeeze another out of my disability check next month.
Folks, it's time to reduce the lamenting on CD and start planning for actions to take back control of our political and economic system before it is too late.
If you were Mr. Obama wouldn't you want immunity, too?
Seems he must have had a "good" reason to vote for the bill to protect himself or his congressional supporters.
Go ahead, vote for Mr. Obama, then you will have something to whine about for the next eight years.
Stonetool, you are falling for republican logic when you assume that torture has times when it is necessary and useful.
Alfred McCoy, in Question of Torture, spends a chapter pointing out the illogic in your logic. (Which, no doubt in my mind, has been formed by the massive pro-torture propaganda campaign the ruling class has propagated in the last 7 years).
What are the odds that you know there is a plot against your family members, and you know the people involved, and you know that by torturing a certain person you will get that information, and you know that there is a time limit, but the only thing you don't
know is where your family member is?
And, if there is a time limit, the person being tortured can lie and it's just too late by the time you find out.
Take the anger you feel at pretend terrorists threatening your family and direct it towards the ones that REALLY ARE threatening your family - the very rich owners of this country and their democrat and republican puppets!!!
I'm not saying that just voting for Cynthia McKinney will get you a better country. You need to get more involved than that. But it will be a wake up call for the ruling class if enough Americans, finally, see through the bullshit that keeps them afraid (of terrorists and of voting their dreams) and refuse to vote for the "lesser of two evils".
How many times do people have to point out that the lesser of two evils is still evil? When we now live in a country that openly tortures, that imprisons people without charge or trial, that spies on its own citizens, that pollutes the planet and refuses to cooperate with the rest of the world, that attacks other countries without provocation, that allows its most desperate citizens to live on the streets, that taxes its people to pay for the export of their jobs, etc., etc., etc.? Democrats voted for the Patriot Act, the Real ID Act. the Military Commissions Act, the Protect America Act.
They are evil! They are a threat to your family!! Wake up and work with others to take their power away. (Not by torturing)
A little review: Harman was one of, if not the primary supporter of the Homegrown Terrorism and Violence Act - a piece of legislation straight from hell (or Nazi Germany). Cited ' dangers' of Internet, use of universities as place to compile information, a committee (with a majority to be appointed by the Executive), etc. Much of the stuff in this piece was produced by Rand Corporation; a tangential statement also mentions 'Green radicals and animal rights groups' in the same breath as 'terrorists.'
Simply - Kucinich and a handful of others are the only ones that should be returned to power. Blue-Dog Democrats should be hounded out of the country on a rail, and sychopantic lapdogs who supported the illegal and unconstitutional expansion of executive powers should be imprisoned. It really is just that simple.
tobiasaurusrex .... its easier at this point to just throw all the bums outs. There can be a few exceptions, that will be pretty obvious. Kucinich, B. Lee, R. Paul, Sen. Feingold etc.
But, "Throw all the bums out" is short enough to fit on a bumpersticker, and a nice general slogan to follow.
Gorsegrower:
A Bill of Attainder was a method of "trying" by the legislature someone accused of treason or othe crimes. It was inherently unjust because the votes lined up according to party. After the victim was found "guilty" he was stripped of all his civil rights and property--thus impoverishing his family--before being punished.
"Ex post facto" means that what was not a crime at the time it was committed is now made a crime, so someone who let his lawn grow too long last year could, if the legislature decided to make not cutting one's grass a criminal offense, be tried and punished now even though it wasn't illegal at the time he did it.
However, if you're thinking of Telecom immunity, that is an ex post facto tinkering with one specific case in civil law, not criminal law, and there seems to be some doubt and argument about whether it would be unconstitutional or not in that case. John Dean, for one, seems to doubt that "ex post facto" applies to civil law.
MIKE KEOGH: You ask the question we all would like to know... or possibly see enacted.
EL MYSTERIO: I agree as per "null and void." Perhaps a decade from now a new Constitutional Congress of sorts will convene and indeed grant that wish.
COUNT COUP: Excellent points, particularly about Rove.
THE LORAX: In my almost completed book, MOON DANCE: FEMININE DIMENSIONS OF TIME I explain the archetypal energies that animate human personality types. The TYPE of individual (of both genders) that tends to gain power in the USA today is a borderline sociopath, one crazed by power and largely indifferent to human suffering. With that being said, the FEMALES on your valid power-abuse list all simulate the character of the Goddess Athena. In mythology she denies being born of a woman/mother and instead identifies so much with her father Zeus (patriarchal values of culture, privileges of the boy's club) that she asserts her origin came through her father's head (i.e. thinks like a male).
Many women have to try to out-bad the bad boys to show they can "have" power. There are few examples where society values feminine traits. BOTH genders own all expressions, but the way we are enculturated has a lot to do with how we express in our lives. You know, like "real boys" don't cry. One author stated that as a result they cry BULLETS. The collective repression of FEELINGS to the pursuit and command of cold logic has brought the US to the point where it almost worships force first, macho posturing, false heroism cum militarism. It's a SICK, asymmetric paradigm that greatly needs the input and expression of healthy persons of BOTH genders; but WOMEN in particular are needed... "Athena need not apply."
"And remember that when this happened, it was shortly after 9/11 and so forth"
Since when does February 2001 come shortly after September 2001? Why does this not get mentioned? All that wiretapping sure kept us safe on 9/11...
With the extensive campaign to not investigate 9/11 and the flimsy 9/11 Commission investigation one could speculate that the administration and the leaders of Congress also had far more foreknowledge of the attacks of 9/11 than they've told the public.
Remember that in the first week of July 2001 the G-8 meeting in Genoa Italy had anti-aircraft missile protection; this was the first time for missile protection at a G-8 meeting. During the meeting President Bush was flown out to sleep on an American aircraft carrier surrounded by its attack group. An American aircraft carrier attack group is the world's best anti-aircraft system.
Also in the first week of August 2001 John Ashcroft quit flying on commercial airlines.
And don't forget that Bush and his cabinet started taking Cipro, the antibiotic to treat Anthrax on 9/11/2001.
We need names, and we need to make sure all those complicit never get re-elected.
We need a list of members of congress who have military and "security" investments.
ctrl-z (2:59} You've raised a valid question. We certainly are an odd culture.
yes, harman, bush, cheney have all been eating at the tree of propaganda.
"Be afraid, be very afraid." these narcissistic sociopaths all shriek. The
terrorists are out there, and by god, they're gonna get you unless you get
them first. Let's get a little real here. The only ones i'm really fearful of
are the leaders of my own country. And i know i'm not alone. Doesn't that
say something?
Cindy, I don't think you'll be just another hot-issue-avoiding politician.
But just the same, who are you going to vote for President?
I doubt you will answer this, which demonstrates the serious limitations politicians have on revealing what they would do once in office.
That's why I hope you will adopt the referendum in your campaign and let the people decide, not politicians who are tied, voluntarily or not, to some special interests.
Senator Gravel did the work for us. See for yourself at:
www.nationalinitiative.us
I talked about this the other day, Article.I.Section.9.,Clause 3 in reference to :Shawn @ 3:36 pm, ex post facto Laws are Laws that are LEGAL then made ILLEGAL, so it is not applicable in the FISA with retroactive immunity, this took perfectly fine Law that upheld the Fouth Amendment, rewrote it and said although we are JO's and MFER's that are complicit this Law is the new LEGAL Law, albeit a redaction of our Fourth Amendment and allowing the Department of Whichever to Whenever they feel the mood to search us, kick our door in at 3 am and say , "We just wanna do it, 'cos we felt like it.", and my phone and emails can now ?legally? be tapped and trapped because I have a home in Turkey and my daughter and her Dad are there for @ 7 weeks and although technically Asia Minor, everyone thinks they're Arabs in the ME, We phone back and forth alot. This is under Title VII, 'Sec.703 and 'Sec.704.
We knew about Pelosi witnessing Torture already, I think it was this site that had that story. "The House chuse their Speaker...", so the complicit pigs have the Right to remove HER!!!!
QT-
Do you actually know what that was about?
No one takes the time to understand history.
Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party?
When our Executive Branch and much of our Congress are war criminals or complicit in condoning/encouraging war crimes, what kind of government do we have? What kind of country?
The election of one member of one of these two war crimes parties, both part of the Corporate/War Party, will not change much.
The coming economic meltdown will only give these criminal thugs in suits more of an excuse for imposing martial law. "When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Yes, San Francisco. Mordechai Shiblikov, you are right, again. The money Pelosi brings into "The City" is big. And if (when) the economy collapses, the "Citians" will probably not be bothered too much and go ahead and forgive her. So, San Francisco, your liberal reputation is on the line. Are you traditional, liberal democrats, or just the corporate type that our country can be sorry for. Good luck Cindy.
In regards to the Military Commissions Act AND the "new" F.I.S.A. Bill that "grant retroactive immunity for past criminal activity by Congress and the Whitehouse:
Acticle I,SS9 U.S. Constitution: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed.
Ex post facto basically means after the fact. Wouldn't this make the laws retroactivley immunizing the preznit and congresss critters after they already committed the crimes invalid?
Lorax-
Gender has nothing to do with any of this insanity - though I do get your point.
And why hasn't Common Dreams printed her speech?
The hell with the telecommunications civil suits!! Breaking the FISA law is a federal felony. Why don't people emphasize that Bush should be prosecuted?
Your list of women traitors is extensive, but doesn't include Cynthia McKinney, who, like Frank Church, was targeted after she questioned Rumsfield about the missing Pentagon trillions, asked what the administration knew about 9-11, and supported impeachment of Bush.
The Democrats teamed with the Republicans to throw her out of Congress in 2002. She fought her way back in 2004, only to be targeted again.
Cynthia McKinney learned that the Dems and Repubs are not to be trusted. She's now running for US President on the Green Party ticket. Anyone who votes for Obama when you have the clear choice of a true progressive deserves the destroyed environment and economy that you will get. Unfortunately, I'm right here in this country too, so I'm doing everything I can to get her on the ballot and elected.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/mckinney-s-acceptance-speech-green-party-nomination
The image that goes through my mind about all of this is a horrible film repeatedly stuck in "rewind" and "play" mode about Bush Co. hijacking the White House and country with the help of the Congress. Unfortunately it is real, horrifying, and far less entertaining than the Hollywood film "Ocean's 11"
Face it, the criminals are in charge. The Government is here to help (themselves). Democracy only works for those who can afford to buy the criminals. The criminals, Bush, Cheney, Harmon, Pelosi, and Feinstein are invested in Military Companies. Our honorable military officers retire then work for defense companies to further defraud the people out of money. The books are cooked out of existence and as long as the pay checks roll the bureaucracy supports it. There are not enough courageous and honest people left in America to face this corrupt monster down. In fact ordinary people are so corrupt that it seems normal to them. There is nothing left to challenge it, spare Mother Nature, and she IS doing her job. It does not appear to me that mankind has earned the right to continue living. Make your peace.
I would reinforce RichM's point about the American Revolution being protracted in popular support. Howard Zinn accurately, astutely and articulately discusses this in his book "A People's History of the United States"
ctrl-z asks (2:59)
"...Was there ever really a revolution here or did the business interests in competition with the East India Company just write up a thrilling history after they won their trade war?"
- I saw a talk given by Daniel Ellsberg, who had researched a closely-related question. He said that the best studies of opinion at that time show that at the time of the American Revolution, about 1/3 of the population favored independence from Britain; about 1/3 wanted to remain loyal to the king; and 1/3 were indifferent.
I would say that generally speaking, the image we're given of the American Revolution is ludicrously over-glorified. Probably many ordinary people of that time understood quite well that they would just be getting a new boss, who'd be little better than the old boss.
Cindy Sheehan,
I would vote for you if I could!!!
But I can help with some grassroots work way over here in Massachusetts.
When things like these happen in other countries the citizens take to the streets, strike, shut down the country.
But in America we have orderly, government sanctioned peace marches. We express our outrage on websites and blogs. We call our representatives.
We change channels.
Was there ever really a revolution here or did the business interests in competition with the East India Company just write up a thrilling history after they won their trade war?
Or is it the fact that we are largely descendants of people who decided to immigrate here rather than stay and fight conditions in their home countries?
How have we come to the point where we accept conditions that would have other countries citizens out doing something about them?
On the National level, Obama lost me with his last flip, I will be voting for Barr, and trying to remove my sitting Congressman and Senator. You don't get CHANGE by sending the same do nothings back and back and back. The military can refuse to obey an unlawful order, but any resistance by the higher ups has been met with earlier than wanted retirement by our corporatic employees in Washington.
I have a question based on my ignorance of 'ex post facto' and 'bills of attainder.' If the law cannot make something a crime retroactively, then how can it do the logical opposite, i.e. repeal a criminal statute retroactively?
Wouldn't that be unconstitutional on its face? I thought the test to be whether it was illegal at the time it was committed. Is this one of those cases where something is illegal but nobody challenges it in court, making it effectively legal in practice?
Where have all the shills gone?
[Transition to understudy mode]
errr...
Don't vote Green/Nader or else McCain will pardon everyone.
Women should be outraged.
Every time an American woman is appointed to a powerful position - Madeleine Albright, Kathleeen Blanco, Condoleeza Rice, Nanci Pelosi, etc. they turn out to be corrupt, incompetent, or both.
What a shot in the arm for all the men that say "Women can't cut it!".
Thank God people wised up before they elected Hillary!
cindysheehan July 15th, 2008 2:34 pm
Wish we could vote for you, but all we can do is send a check each month.
Send Pelosi to the showers.
Countcoup.
On target there. The prisons are full of people who thought they would never end up there. But the accountability caught up with them, and the oversight of the court system assured it.
If the people in the USA make the criminal behavior of the Bush administration an example NOT to follow, the possibility of future infractions will be reduced considerably.
GW Bush and the co conspirators of these latest series of crimes, from both houses, should be held accountable and suffer the consequences of those crimes.
If making the punishments not worth the commitments of the crimes, then only the mentally ill will be locked up.
It might be a better investment for the future for the USA to be willing to finance a special prison unit in the Spandau example, instead of spending so much money on the corruption the cureent political system requires.
Mr. Bush and Mr. Rove could be "cell mates" even sleep in each other arms each night, for the rest of their lives.
It would be another example to confiscate their personal wealth as well, so as to set an example for the future members. Mr. Bush is a multimillionare who never really had a job so to speak, and if his name were not Bush, and THAT Bush, he would be one of those homeless people with a spray bottle and cloth standing at intersections cleaning the dead insects off of windshields----for change.
Umm..duh
I have been saying this since December 8th, 2007, when the WaPo broke the story that Pelosi had been briefed on torture in 2002.
Congress members CANNOT be recalled or impeached.
We can demand Pelosi's resignation, but somehow, I don't think it will work. OR we can vote her out in November, and elect me.
www.CindyforCongress.org
xoxo
Cindy
Maybe someone here can answer this, If the commander in chief and the next in line are the ones attacking the constitution who does the military obey.
Many years ago some one discovered that the oil from the jojoba bean (Indigenous to America) could lubricate all of our machinery . Including auto engines . A crank case full of this bean oil would mean just change the filter and top off the oil . Production of this bean oil would bring the crude oil prices down to 1930's prices and the speculators would be jumping out the windows . This bean grows well in most of north and south America . The petro and auto companies have designed the auto in a way to make it difficult to burn anything other than gasoline and in doing so have increased the cost of auto production parts greatly . So why fret over fuel , lets start with the other products which require no modifications to the auto .
Please don't include Kucinich in this mob of criminals. He is one of the only ones that have stood up to these monsters.