China is really an ecological menace due to its middle-to upper middle class population size and material obsessions. At least if it was more of a democracy there would be a sense of widespread internal criticism but the impression one gets is that those brave enough to take a stand risk a lot more than Western activists do.
The ahole that runs a tiger breeding facility even has bears performing high wire acts without a net--and tourists are treated to domestic tigers ripping apart live steers.

I suspect China will cripple itself from pollution before long.

Except for pandas, I don't think the Chinese care about anything, but what they want - oh, that is a uniquely American trait isn't it?! All environmentally concerned peoples should boycott the Olympics; if the Olympics doesn't make any money, they won't come back.
In fact, the only reason Atlanta wasn't the "best ever" was due to the fact, that only $10 million in profit was made. So much for all the work entailed to get the games and host the games and we didn't even have the air pollution, water pollution, human rights violations, etc that the Chinese endure on a daily basis.

Unless we remove their Ivory, we'll have to put elephants in zoos until the Chinese become enlightened.

We don't care about people, we don't care about animals, we don't care about the environment. We just care about being entertained, even if it kills us.

We destroy the things we need to get the things we want.

No one wants to talk about the REAL bottom-line issue, and that is overpopulation on the earth. Population growth will NOT stop. The world's resources, the planet itself, will be denuded before long. We have another few decades at best. Get used to it. We live on a dying planet, its life taken by our own hands. We older folks experienced the best living conditions that nature would ever allow. The younger generations will know little but increasing suffering. Hey, we had a good run. Mother Nature made a huge mistake when she allowed human beings to evolve. Hey, at least the capitalists had easy lives for awhile, what with their McMansions and all. Good for them.

The ringing everyone hears and attempts to ignore is merely those bells E. Hemingway wrote about those many decades past.

Humanity is bankrupting the universe and what we end up with is truly and exactly what we deserve.

We are the stupidest species in the universe and it looks sooooooo good on us.

Kent Shaw is right. We breed like frigging roaches and each and every one of us needs to eat and drink and then the real damage starts: in China we want tiger body parts for virility and ivory because we like ivory. In America we want throwaway toys and a new SUV every year and houses air conditioned to 68 degrees every summer. And so on. We grab and we gobble and we make species extinct every day as we breed and breed till the ecosystems are strained way beyond the point where they can support us. Some of us live in the powerful countries and we can take more of the world's energy and food and resources. Some are so dirt-poor it's beyond belief they manage to live and breed at all, but they do. And they die faster than the more fortunate, but they also reproduce more as well. All the conservation measures in the world will not, in the end, do us any real good if we don't stop overbreeding. It is beyond me why decreasing reproduction is not made the prime goal of all foreign aid, and all sex education in the industrialized countries. China at least is making the effort; they are smart. India is a horror show. All their efforts at entering the first world will come to naught if they don't get a handle on their bursting population, and they act as if it were of no consequence.

My husband and I did our bit: I sterilized myself as soon as we married. A sacrifice, yes, but if couples don't start confining themselves to one or no children the planet is doomed. We have solar panels on our roof, a big veggie garden, an entirely water-independent garden, one small car, and we walk to the stores because we were careful to buy a house (a small house) near all the local shops. This is not to boast, just to say we do what we can to keep our footprint small and our energy use down.

Personally, I think the planet is doomed. I'm glad I won't be around to see it, but it breaks my heart to know our beautiful world is going to be destroyed.

What a bunch of nihilistic, racist, complaining posts.

That's what it will take ACC. Everybody voluntarily doing his/her bit could make this planet into the "garden of Eden" of legend.
The reverse, will make Earth into a hellish place like Venus.
The economic screw will begin to bite in the USA very soon. China may have a while longer.
Saving creation is saving ourselves, of course.

Words Are Important July 14th, 2008 1:27 pm
"We don't care about people, we don't care about animals, we don't care about the environment. We just care about being entertained, even if it kills us.
We destroy the things we need to get the things we want."

Thats simply not true. Not any of it.

..................................................

And no the World isn't dying (other thasn naturally) or any of that other stuff, although overpopulation is certainly a problem for many countries.

Thank you, ACC July 14th, 2008 3:40 pm. Much more eloquent than my abilities.

So, pedro, you disagree? Please tell me how to feed and shelter the 6 billion we have, let alone the 9 billion expected by 2030.

Seriously, I'd like to hear your well thought out solutions. One never knows where the answers lie.

I didn't say I disagreed with anything, I was just commenting on the tone of the posts.
There is so much above that I agree with and so much above is what I already said (above).
I don't have any cure-alls, because the problem is an invention of perception.
People die. People breed. We are animals. Morality is an invention of our accursed consciousness. Mother nature doesn't make mistakes, she just IS. Of course there are finite limits to population. If we don't get smart together (we all need enlightenment, not just the chinese) we are doomed to more suffering than is necessary. Extinction is a fact of life and a matter of time. We have big brains, so there is a chance we can extend our time here as a species. Sometimes it doesn't look good. Then again it might not be up to us anyway. This earth is built for bacteria.

pedro July 14th, 2008 5:42 pm "the problem is an invention of perception" "This earth is built for bacteria."

Quite the contrary, the problem is very real. You can put bacteria into a petree dish and watch them gobble the food until they run out of it and die in their millions.

The Earth, like a petree dish, is finite. People, on the other hand, can reason. We can either have sustained pleasant lives for ourselves and our descendants, or we can multiply like rabbits and die off in a mass catastrophe.

Do you want to control population growth? Try education. Educated women produce fewer children. They are wealthier and healthier.

In addition, their posts on Commondreams contain fewer spelling mistakes.

jlocke123 July 14th, 2008 6:42 pm

Do you want to control population growth? Try education. Educated women produce fewer children. They are wealthier and healthier.

In addition, their posts on Commondreams contain fewer spelling mistakes.

No one could disagree with that.

Sure, I agree with all that. I mean that morality is an invention, not overpopulation.

I just said

"Of course there are finite limits to population. If we don't get smart together (we all need enlightenment, not just the chinese) we are doomed to more suffering than is necessary. Extinction is a fact of life and a matter of time. We have big brains, so there is a chance we can extend our time here as a species. Sometimes it doesn't look good. Then again it might not be up to us anyway. This earth is built for bacteria."

jlocke, you just repeated what I just said. The bacteria reference was hinting at the fact that some strain could wipe us out no matter what path we take. Stop trying to disagree with me. I agree with you.

Would someone please tell the Vatican that there are enough people on this planet. Humans are not going extinct; all the animals are and once they are gone, so are we.

We are indeed way overpopulated already. As I have posted elsewhere here, it took us over a million years to reach the first billion [in about 1805]. We had 2.24 billion when I was born in 1940, and we have almost tripled in my lifetime of 68 yrs, to 6.65 billion. But ... we are not going to destroy the world. Gaia will live on. What we are going to destroy [perhaps already have] is the ability of this planet to support us. Even so, some are likely to survive, unless the big methane fart happens for real, which will definitely kill all human life. Otherwise, some of us will survive, but not many. The die off is likely to occur in my childrens' lifetime - sometime in the next 75 yrs. But please to remember, it is resource use, not population alone, which does the damage. The average American uses more resources than an entire third world village. So don't point a finger anywhere but at a mirror.

When I say 'we' don't care about people, I mean that society as a whole doesn't care about people and the things that society needs to live a beneficial and rewarding life.

Sure, there have always been individuals who have acted in a caring manner but you have to wonder about this - Why are we at war right now? We, as in our country, and our resources?

Somehow history has always been tilted to protect the financial interests of the small group of the elite, at the expense of innocent people. Yes, usually they are on another continent, but that doesn't make it any less unjust.

As resources don't continue to keep up demand there will be more violence, civil unrest, and 'government' oppression, as has happened historically in similar situations. We are not living sustainably, one reason is population, another is that the capitalism always depends on demand being greater than supply so that it keeps the prices up.

By the way, who sets the price of a barrel of oil?

Good think we have a well equipped private army (like Blackwater) who will ensure that acts of justice are carried out in the US like they are in Iraq.

Vote Third party, don't waste your vote on the corporate democrats and republicans.

@kelmer July 14th, 2008 12:37 pm
"China is really an ecological menace due to its middle-to upper middle class population size and material obsessions. At least if it was more of a democracy there would be a sense of widespread internal criticism"

But what would you say to the person that mentions that the average American has an ecological footprint about 20 times larger than that of the average Chinese?

once they eat all the animals into extinction don't be surprised if they start looking at us and licking their chops - I like what many of you said - some of you may appreciate my postings - the latest one: http://poetsagainstthewar.org/displaypoem.asp?AuthorID=7345#453122802

scroll up once there to read more (158 in all)
PEACE - WE CAN'T EAT OUR WAY TO IT - WE CAN'T SHOP ARE WAY THERE - WE CAN'T BOMB IT INTO EXISTENCE