We have only two choices, uncertainty and certainty.

Obama can't really talk out of both sides of his mouth at exactly one time very well. So he supposedly self corrects and 'issues clarifications' instead and that comes off as sincerity, too! He doesn't have to act too well, since he's running against a moron.

To all those who "bother" to respond to 'Ariel_Sharon': My advice is to ignore this racist. I have encountered others like him on other sites. They all get their "marching orders" from Aipac or Jinsa or BnaiBrith or wherever. It is the standard Tel Aviv Likud line that is only more euphemistically expressed in the US Senate. Let their vitriol fall on deaf ears and dissipate entropically in the dustbin of historical commentary. He's not worth the time.

Like millions ,I heard His speech from beginning to end .Though His real intentions could well have been very different , each word was crystal clear - and the tone quite frankly groveling.

In essence ,He affirmed :Israel's absolute and inalienable right to exist ; that the US would stand shoulder to shoulder with it .And ,most importantly ,the centre piece of His speech was a ringing declaration that an undivided Jerusalem would be Israel's capital . (This last must well have been the sweetest music to Israeli ears .Never ,even in their wildest dreams ,could they have envisioned an potential US President going this far.)

However if He ,in His wisdom ,wishes to backtrack - He could have done so in a far less ham-handed fashion. ( By no stretch of, even the most fevered imagination , does '(no)barbed wire running through Jerusalem ' mean exactly the same as an "undivided Jerusalem." -in each and every respect .)

Retreating from ( or wiggling out of ) a position , is an art . And a very fine and subtle art at that.

Perhaps His advisers would do well to take a leaf out of Rommel's or Mao's book. Both the Afrika Korps long retreat from El Alamein , and the PLA's Long March were ,quite simply ,works of genius.

"Poor phrasing" hmmmm

Doesn't it bother you a bit when this fellow who's praised for his eloquence and his Constitutional Law teaching skills seems to be having more and more trouble with "poor phrasing"? There was that "bitter" thing too, right? Then there was his poor phrasing re NAFTA. Of course his vote on FISA MUST have been the result of poor phrasing. And then he admits his "universal healthcare" plan ain't exactly universal. Does make me a little worried about what might happen at 3AM.

Sorry, sorry, couldn't resist that one.

McCain misremembers. Obama phrases poorly. That must be the difference between the two. I was trying to figure out just what it was, now I know.

Someone wrote:

"Israel is a failed state. Israel and Palestine should be placed under UN administration for at least 25 years. Jerusalem should be placed under permanent UN administration as an international city and the UN headquarters."

Ahhhhhh, utopia. I'd give up my pinky finger to see something of that sort.

Sadly, I suspect that it will continue to be an unbearably long and drawn out process of dehumanization, murder and oppression. How anyone can look at this situation and not gag is lacking some essential human qualities: empathy, copmassion, caring etc. I believe the ANC vistors who called it it as it is.

Look deep in your heart and ask yourself: Is this right? There is only one conclusion. If you answer otherwise, I think some therapy might be helpful.

Ariel_Sharon

"thanks to israel's prowess"

The Zionist movement has maintained a striking continuity in its aims and methods over the past century. From the start, the movement sought to achieve a Jewish majority in Palestine and to establish a Jewish state on as much of the LAND as possible. The methods included promoting both mass Jewish immigration and acquiring tracts of land that would become the inalienable property of the Jewish people. This policy inevitably prevented the indigenous Arab residents from attaining their national goals and establishing a Palestinian state. It also necessitated displacing Palestinians from their lands and jobs when their presence conflicted with Zionist interests.

The Zionist movement-and subsequently the state of ISRAEL-failed to develop a positive approach to the Palestinian presence and Palestinian aspirations. Although many Israelis recognized the moral dilemma posed by the Palestinians, the majority either tried to ignore the issue or to resolve it by force majeure. Thus, the Palestine problem festered and grew, instead of being resolved.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/

indeed dear ariel

it appears to many americans that the false flag "riechstag fire" of 9/11/2001 has
involved some zionists in the works

Ariel_Sharon is a another hitler. nazi = zionist.. And also holecost is not real and never happend... and is'fake' don't count as they think of Palestinians dont count.

Take a look at any map from before 1945 and you will see, clearly written out, 'Palestine' in that region.

The idea that there can be a religious state violates most basic human rights definitions, including the UN's.

A jewish, christian, or muslim, or any other religious state, would all be a backward step from liberty, justice, and peace.

Ariel_Sharon: "ariel sharon is a great man and a hero to the jewish people."

Article 7 of the International Criminal Court (ICC) Statutes of 1998, for example, describes a crime against humanity as an act "committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population".

On the night of 14 October 1953, Ariel Sharon led an elite Israeli commando force, Unit 101, into the Jordanian West Bank village of Qibya and systematically murdered all occupants of the town, using automatic weapons, grenades and incendiaries, blowing up 45 houses, a school and the reservoir, and killing 69 civilians, two-thirds of them women and children. At about 3 AM, to cover their withdrawal Israeli support troops shelled the neighboring villages of Budrus and Shuqba from positions inside Israel.
Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses. The UN observer who inspected the scene reached a different conclusion:
"One story was repeated time after time: the bullet-splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them."

In 1972 Sharon was in command of the forced expulsion of 10,000 Palastinians from their homes in the Gaza strip, bulldozing their crops and olive fields and filling up their wells with concrete, confiscating their land to make way for sixteen illegal Israeli settlements.
"I hope we can expel all Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan." (Ariel Sharon, New York Times, 17 May 1982)

On 6 June 1982, the Israeli army invaded Lebanon, causing 18,000 deaths and 30,000 injuries, mostly among civilians. By 18 June 1982, Israel had surrounded the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) armed forces in the western part of the Lebanese capital. A cease-fire, mediated by the United States, resulted in the PLO's evacuation of Beirut on 1 September 1982 after the PLO had been given guarantees by the Americans regarding the security of civilians in the camps following their departure. On 15 September the Israeli forces under the command and direct supervision of Ariel Sharon encircled and sealed the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila, entirely surrounding them with Israeli tanks. During the late afternoon and evening of that day, the camps were shelled. Shortly after 5 PM on 16 September 1982, a unit of approximately 150 Israeli armed and equipped Christian Phalangist militia were allowed to enter the camps, and for the next 3 days were allowed to relentlessly rape, torture, and kill hundreds of unarmed civilians, mostly women, children, and the elderly, while on 17 and 18 September, hundreds more were arrested and trucked away, never to be seen again. During the massacre Israeli fighters provided air cover, and Israeli artillery helpfully fired illumination rounds over the camps at night. Israeli soldiers who were witnessing the massacre were explicitly ordered by their officers not to interfere. According to Lebanese authorities, they murdered 1,962 unarmed civilians, with approximately 1500 missing and presumed dead.
On 19 September 1982 The United Nations Security Council condemned the massacre with Resolution 521, followed by a 16 December 1982 General Assembly resolution qualifying the massacre as an "act of genocide."
To their credit, on September 25 1982, a huge demonstration of 400,000 Israelis was held in Tel Aviv when they learned what had been done in their name, and Ariel Sharon was forced to resign.

"A good Arab is a dead Arab" (Ariel Sharon, Ha'aretz, 25 February 1983)

Obama- Will say anything, do absolutely anything to become the first "Black" president and his DPAs (Democratic Pastry apologists) will defend anything he says or does, regardless of what it is.

Words, lol what? That "palestine" is a british colony, not a country.

And you guys scrolling the shit about shaba and shantilla are truly wasting your mental energy. I have read ALL of that MANY times, and it kills me that you never pick up on what I'm saying and instead scroll this shit over and over. I do not support the lebonese christians. They are barbarians just like their muslim arab brothers, and its no suprise they behaved this way. Ariel Sharon, however, cannot be blamed for arab barbarism. It existed long before he or any other israeli was born, andf he certainly shouldn't have been expected to step in the middle.

Padraig: way to give the arab version of Quibla. That village was one from which many an attack into israel had been launched. Do you know about any of those? Its simply nonsense to claim that high a percentage there were "civilians", unless you consider people infiltrating into israel to murder and rape people "civilians".

Zionist watch: Again, the arab version of events, that conveniently leaves out their crimes. When does your timeline start, 1936? Last time I checked, 1929 happened before 1936, and the hebron massacre was in 1929.

You guys have lots of insults and stupid theories, but when you try to present "facts", its just arab propaganda. Do you really think someone is paying me to come and say this stuff?

I guess I should expect that from the "jews did wtc" crowd.

Idiots.

It is well past time that the acts of Israeli terrorism detailed above be taught in our schools to provide balance and understanding to the conflicts in the Middle East.

It is also well past time that the Israeli population vote the right wing Likud government out of power.

Israel is a criminal state born out of the last vetiges of western colonialism.

Sharon is a war criminal and thug.

obama is a craven politician.

^^^^ Well, I'm not so sure about that last vestiges qualifier. Western colonialism has certainly altered some aspects of its form and format, but its role in the overall imperial scheme still seems to be alive and well. In fact, I'm not even sure that all of the cosmetic changes that have occured have been for the better. We could ask the Iraqis about that I suppose.

its the last of the "old world" colonialism -- that is the western powers had to settle populations in an area in order to control it, as opposed to today, where its more about financial levers and technology.

This bickering over who did what and when who started it is a dead end street and all this fact mongering about Western dominance is useless. Israel is not a criminal state anymore than the US or France or whoever and, Ariel_Sharon, you're mind is clearly closed like most of American Jewry who believe a Jewish state is somehow justified, where as all other religious states are world-threatening. Your defensive nature is typical of people who have no logical leg to stand upon.

The fact is, the Palestinians are being collectively punished. Isreal would not even let Fulbright scholars leave Gaza to achieve their dream of studying abroad. That is a disgrace to the Jews, who have prided themselves on education and should be totally unacceptable under any circumstances.

The only solution is a one state solution. Israel is not democratic but rather a religious-based state, a Jewish state, which runs in contradiction to everything we believe in. The holocaust does not mean the Jews are somehow exempt from these crucial concepts. I'm Jewish and zionism is not Judaism. How all Jews got sucked into this zionist insanity is another story but we need to break out.

jl, israel is not a religious state. Nor is it only for jews as tens of thousands of non-jews live there.

You are not jewish either. Why do you leftyscum always tell me you are jewish? I'm not fooled or impressed.

Israel is the illegitmate creation of the West and it acts like it. Israel at best needs some time out.

Jerusalem should be an undivided city, but under the rule of no one nation, especially Israel. It should be an international city, open to all, Jew, Muslim and Christian alike, without any subjugation of minority populations or religions as Israel now intends. Israel can have its capital there, and so can Palestine.

Jerusalem is the home of three bloodthirsty cults.

_ A R I E L _ U N - R E A L I E L _

Mr _ J L S T I L E S _ very clearly QUALIFIED the phrase you responded to : "religious state"He said "Israel is not democratic

but rather a religious-based state"

Your feigned response is a testament to your inability to actually think about the issues before us, ans that makes your feigned desire for PEACE an insult to our patience and thoughtfulness.

If you have even the least desire to carry on a discussion, than YOU MUST consider listening to what people write -- as CONTRASTED to just pushing out more garbage answers -- that show how LUKIDicross you and those like you are.

Un-flinching terrorists, fear mongers, mass-murders, and totally unapologetic about that inhumanness and suffering being caused.

YOU'VE stated that COLLECTIVE punishment is FINE -- so we're gearing up

to make that the FINAL DEAL

for ISRAEL too __ GOT IT ???

Just kidding, I wouldn't fall so low as you, ever …

Can you "even" see the nose on your face ?

"Padraig: way to give the arab version..."

Perhaps if you weren't so smug, self-righteous and closed minded, you might find hearing about Al Nekbah from a Palestinian point of view rather enlightening. However, enlightenment clearly isn't on your agenda.

I'm completely fed up with the United States being a client state of Israel, and I find Israel's rabid militarism and brutal racism absolutely disgusting and totally inexcusable. I'm sick to death of our government forcing us to be unwilling enablers and collaborators in Israel's frequent and ongoing crimes against humanity, and if Israel and ourselves reap the whirlwind in consequence, I'm hardly surprised; we deserve it.

Padraig Pearse July 14th, 2008 12:38 pm
-well said

_ A R I E L _ U N - R E A L I E L _
sov·er·eign
”
1. a monarch; a king, queen, or other supreme ruler.
2. a person who has sovereign power or authority.
3. a group or body of persons or a state having sovereign authority.
4. a gold coin of the United Kingdom, equal to one pound sterling: went out of circulation after 1914.
–adjective
5. belonging to or characteristic of a sovereign or sovereignty; royal.
6. having supreme rank, power, or authority.
7. supreme; preeminent; indisputable: a sovereign right.
8. greatest in degree; utmost or extreme.
9. being above all others in character, importance, excellence, etc.
10. efficacious; potent: a sovereign remedy.”
Even the Israelis have sovereign rights, while holding the reins ( reigns ) of power,
but more importantly
ALL HUMANITY have them
EQUAL to ISRAELIs.
It doesn’t matter in the least if your pathetic secular world view of ZIONISM denies existence of GOD and inalienable rights — because the rest of the world DOES.
It doesn’t matter if your pathological psychopathy and lack of conscience & shame
ignores others suffering, and puts any Israeli life AS IF “equivalent” to 400, or 4000 Palestinian lives
There are consequences to ALL actions === it’s called responsibility, the ability to respond.
Do you have anything other than more pathetic automatic suffering for all who _ y o u _( insanely )_ v i e w __ as threatening your illegal land grab and atrocious inequities ?
PERHAPS the _ i l l e g i t i m a c y _ of ISRAEL ( as the current state it is, not the lives of Jews, per se ) is eventually catching up with existence issues ?
Why WE bother at all, other than to show the obdurate tenacity of the wrong-minded to be righteously arrogant — at all costs.
Every bigoted prejudicial and insane word from your mouth, erases a little bit more of the rest of the world’s hope and concern for Israel to maintain ANY existence.
How much more do you think we have ?

Padriag, I've been following the israeli/arab dispute since I was a child, do you really think I haven't read the exact words you posted like a hundred times before? I'm sorry if I haven't responded to everything you guys have scrolled, but keep in mind I have responded to all this stuff literally hundreds of times in my life and I'm just tired so now I stick with my main points. Never in here did I say everything israelis have done is ok. But to compare them with the murderous arabs? Come on. Use the same critical analysis you use on israel on the arabs for once, and then talk to me about being "enlightened". Israel has never committed a "crime against humanity" except perhas dier Yassin in 1948. Calling defending thsmelves against terrorism a "crime against humanity" cheapens those words and renders them totally meaningless.

Veracity, sorry to try your patience. But when you guys come at me with silly shit like: "Israel is as bad as the nazis", "israel practices aparthied", or even better yet, "jews did WTC", what kind of a response do you expect? Let's see some reasoned arguments, before you get any change out of me. Namecalling, coming up with anti-jewish conspiracy theories, and randomly throwing around words like "genocide", and "apartheid" isn't going to get you anywhere with me or any other jews. And what is this crap about not believing in god? Its you lefties that are the atheists not me.

Thank you though, for at least saying israelis are human and have rights. For some on here such as dura even this is not accepted.

Ariel_sharon,

You are so full of shit buddy... just picking and choosing pieces of the story to paint your own picture. I'm not going to bother to refute your comments one by one, but really man, you should be ashamed of yourself. Stupid ignorant first-worlder... you need some bloody are on your doorstep to smarten you up.

COLLECTIVE_PUNISHMENT =

= TERRORISM =

= TORTURE =

= REVENGE =Nothing is ever going to improve when any of these three human rights VIOLATIONS ( + "R" ) continues -- on either side.

There is nothing to discuss about these three ( + "R" ), as EVERYONE with the least appreciation for general HUMANITY
Knows that any act of these three

ERODES the humanity on BOTH sides of the "STICK".

There is nothing to talk about when we're all acting like rabid beasts ( I don't want to denigrate dogs here ), at each others throats ___ inflicting greater pain.

It's the continued unrelenting cycle of violence that makes people act like IDIOTS, because the'rte programmed into SURVIVAL MODE
( see http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/11/10277/?jal_edit_comments#comment-323971 )

REVENGE ( "R" ) may feel good now,
but it trashes and then SELLs_OUT

One's FUTURE POSSIBILITIES.

A W A K E N __ t o

R E S P O N S I B L E __ A C T I O N S

Elm, damm straight I'm a first worlder and very proud of this. There's a reason the "first world" (i.e., the west) does so well while continents like Africa are garbage through-and-through. I'm happy to support progressive mankind rather then the regressives, liek the arabs you support. I know you're not going to try and refute what I say, because you really can't.

Veracity, the terrorism came before the collective punishment.

I'll make it even more SIMPLE. History is IRRELEVANT

The FUTURE IS ALL that is RELEVANT

IF Israel wants to have a future,

they have to give up on revenge and history.

REALITY is catching up on HUBRISNamaste « Presence »
« We must be the change we wish to see in the world » — Gandhi
« There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed » — Gandhi
« We adopt the means of nonviolence because our end is a community at peace with itself » — ML King

You can't have it both ways with history veracity! With one post you talk about history, and then in the next say its not important. I agree with you in the sense that history should not be a straightjacket that contains us, but at the same time it must be considered.

Either way, right NOW arabs are attacking israel. This so-called ceasefire has not in any way affected the two or three attempted suicide bombings every DAY that israel's "apartheid wall" and other security measures have stopped. As long as arabs are attacking israel, there is no peace and israel must fight back. Its not revenge, its self defense.

Self defense: repelling an attack. Revenge: invading whatever unlucky neighboring country is on Israsel's shit list. Of course, Israel couldn't do anything without support from the US.

ann, yes, self defense, as in, putting up a wall to keep terrorists out, putting up checkpoints, etc etc

What neighboring country has israel invaded? Are you talking about lebenon? Because unless you were asleep, you undoubedly rememeber that hezbollah attacked first.

I didn't intend to "have it both ways", so exactly where is it ( like a time stamp and quote ), where I said sometimes you interpret as contradictory ( as a attempt to nullify my issue ) ??

Where did i ever state that the history of tit for tat is IMPORTANT ?

The reality is a HISTORIC land grab ( for recent ancestral lands ) is about history as FACT ( not motive ), and as long as there's no open revenge issues, that issue can be dealt with calmly as it's factual [ not about who slaughter who when, and how many … ].

In my experience, it is best to ignore pro-Israeli moles who post on progressive websites. They love it when people react to their silly, simplistic arguments. Please, simply pretend they aren't there.

pax4all,

copy.

out.

Veracity, historic land grab? What land grab?

Do you mean the UN approved partition of the british colony of palestine?

What was grabbed?

Pax, of course you want to pretend like I'm not here. I shoot down your arguments, and always point out that you guys are as "bloodthirsty" as I am if not moreso. I'm like your conscience fucking with you, and some people don't have the courage or character to deal with that. You are obviously one of those people.

Good to see that you are not, veracity.

Discontinue Israel's allowance.

Ariel_sharon, the fact you assume I am not Jewish is a testament to your spouting of things of which you know nothing. The only true innocents here are the Palestinian people who were forcibly removed from their land and live on the brink of starvation and the Israeli citizens who have to live with hatred of their existence and knowledge of their own reluctant complicity in oppressing millions of innocents.

Never-the-less, if Israel was not a religious state, then why do they need to exclude the Palestinians from the political process? Why not just have a big state and big vote, all inclusive. Why have the occupied territories at all? The settlements are not religious based? You're a perfect example of the complete irrationality of American Jewry when it comes to Israel. Just because there is a minority of non-Jews doesn't mean it isn't a religious state.

Ariel_Sharon, and what of those 7 Palestinian Fulbright Scholars who couldn't achieve their dream due to the Gaza blockade? Were they terrorists? That is a disgrace to Israel no matter how you look at it and a symbol of blanket Israeli oppression in this matter. It shows Israeli responsibility in this matter, something your cultish devotion to zionism prevents you from seeing. Zionism is diametrically opposed to democracy which is the real reason American Jews who have been indoctrinated into equating jewry with zionism, flail and get ultra irrational in any debate on the topic. They have no other choice to live with their views.

Oh yeah, missed that blog. You're right Pax4all, no one but a mole could be as big a dick as Ariel_Sharon. I'm done.

Ariel_Sharon, do you realize how bad you make the country you're defending look? I can't tell you how many times, when discussing these issues with others, that people were morally repulsed by people like yourself. It's bad enough that you and others like you can't acknowledge reality, that every time a fact is brought up that you can't counter (basically 99% of what is said) you respond by calling it "propaganda" or a "conspiracy theory". While I was educating myself on this conflict, I had to work hard to not hate Israel (not Jews in general, the right wing killers in charge of the government of that criminal state) not only for what it has done, in addition to the fact that it carries this out largely with US help and my tax dollars, but because people like you try your best to justify the violence with nothing more than blind, irrational loyalty. I wonder if the defenders of Stalin were embarrassed when his crimes were revealed, or if they continued, like you, to be functional sociopaths, coming up with weak ad hoc justifications for the crimes. I wish all you right wing Zionists would get the hell out of this country and join the IDF. Stop being parasitic elements here, fight your own battles and jump off your own damn cliff. Karma will catch up to people like you and your smug attitude and arrogance will remove any remorse people will feel for you when it does.

Israel could never make up for crimes it's committed but it can stop committing them in the future. The largest obstacle to that however is useful idiots like yourself. Typical too, the loudest voices are usually the stupidest ones.

"There's a reason the "first world" (i.e., the west) does so well while continents like Africa are garbage through-and-through"

I so wish you were saying this in front of me, of course you're a pussy, who speaks this way online to people you'll never meet. The "first world" does well for one reason, FORCE. There is a finite amount of reaources in the world, we in the West consume five to six times the amount of resources per capita than those outside of the "first world". Whenever countries try to even out consumption of resources (most of them are IN the "third world", so basically when they try to control their own resources) we in the West attack them. We destroy their democracies, economically and militarily attack them, fund subversive elements within the countries, etc. There have been countless democratic, progressive forces in the "third world" that have been attacked not because we had a morally just reason for doing so but because they threatened our access to the finite resources on this planet and we refused to change. We won't consume less or allow for true development because we believe in competition only and it makes no sense to build up those who will one day compete against us. So it's better to just attack countries that don't follow our orders and to give idiots like you bumper stickers to repeat. Honestly, you've done nothing but make yourself and Israel look worse by talking, I'm sure any defenders of Israel, who have brains, are cringing in response to your posts. I'm also betting that you're a weak little loudmouth who's never really seen the world. You obviously have a one side and simple view of the world, that's why people like you are called "usefull idiots". The smarter people who believe as you do use people like you to do their dirty work, but from afar. They would never attach themselves to your stupity but they'll reap the rewards in any way they can.

As I understand it, at Hebron many of the Arab Inhabitants came to the aid of their Jewish neighbours. Many more might have been injured or killed had this not happened. Why did it happen??
That is up to the historians to decide.
Shall we now turn to the nightmare which is the daily experience of the remaining Hebron Arabs as they live at the mercy of the vile and murderous settlers, many from the USA, who now can commit murder with impunity, as gods own??

Many decent people are trying hard to undo the evil the yeshivaniks do..
Perhaps they will succeed to get the better of these foul creatures. If true antijewish feelings arise again, which I hope does not happen, then these criminals, the Hilltop youth and the IOF which supports and protects and arms them, will have had much to do with it.

The Only way forward is for a Federation of two states, Israeli and Palestinian. Equal human and civil rights for all, the right of return for those who seek it and compensation for those who are prepared to stay elsewhere.. There are enough people of good will to let it happen if they can defeat the warmongers and criminals.

Creatures like Sharon are useful to remember how not to live, to be a half decent human being.. He should be held up as an example of what not to do, ever.

Ariel Sharon.. Good name for a brain dead pig, soon to be worm food.
Bastard. Worse than Hitler.

jstiles, israeli babies blown up in suicide bombs are innocent too. And no, you arn't jewish. No jew would be so flippant about the violence against his own people.

Fullbright Scholarships? No, I do not agree with israel on this one, those student should be allowed to study in america. I don't agree with israel on everything. (if it were up to me they never would have left gaza).

Therzal, the arabs in hebron gang raped, tortured, and murdered their neighbors, there was most certainly no "aid" given. Where would you have heard that?

Ariel Sharon worse then Hitler? LOL

Grant, but how did the west get a step up in the first place? Why did Portugal colonize Africa, rather then the other way around? Also, how can you explain sucessful non-western countries like Japan and China? China was brutally colonized and opium was forced on their people. Yet clearly China will be the next world superpower. So why is China doing so well, and Africa still a pile of garbage?

Could it POSSIBLY be something about the Africans, rather then whitey?

I don't care "how bad I make israel look". Jewish people weren't put on earth to win popularity contests, we were put on earth to speak the truth loud and clear no matter what the consequences. All of you fools who say that I am causing more anti-semetism are way off the mark. If israel causes anti-semetism, then what about the previous couple thousand years before the modern Israel's existence???? Jew hating is not "back", it never left.

Every generation there will be those who rise to destroy us. This generation its you leftyscum and your muslim allies. Do you really think that I will back down in the face of THIS unholy alliance? My ancestors faced down Hitler, Torquemada, and Nero. You guys are punkasses compared to them. Its an insult that satan can't shit out some more worthy opponents, but I'll take what I can get I suppose. Scaring me off with threats or silly shit about me being a "spy" of some kind isn;t going to work.

Jlstiles, I wanted also to respond to your question about palestinians voting. There's a simple reason why israel doesn't want a palestinian voting majority and its not religious its political and ideological.

When arabs vote, they vote in muslim fundementalists. This is true whether we are talking about the palestinians or the iraqis. A majority arab vote would likely lead to the expulsion or genocide or the jewish population of israel within ten years. Regardless of whether israel is a "religious state", they arn't going to let themselves be genocided!

You are a classic bask case. "Scaring me off…I shoot down your arguments…Its an insult that satan can't shit out some more worthy opponents (what the hell does this even mean?), but I'll take what I can get I suppose."
Who outside of a self deluded narsisist says stupid off the wall garbage like this? It's funny and interesting to watch. Someone lists a bunch of facts to back their argument up, do you know what facts are? You then ignore the facts & the logic, say a bumper sticker or two, call someone a name then tell everyone how intelligent and great you are. What the hell do you say to someone so stupid and self deluded? Like I said, you are making yourself look like an ass and are not doing Israel a favor by defending them. If you aren't out to defend Israel, to defend their actions then you're here to do one thing, to puff up your ego, which is already too big and has little to nothing to do with your intelligence or abilities anyway. You're like the guy in the office who says stupid things, who brags all the time and the second you turn around people roll their eyes and make fun of you. To you, you're a genius. To everyone else you're the asshole who doesn't know what he's talking about who thinks he's a genius.

Idiots like you see any critism of Israel (and not Jews directly), from however small of a reactionary group, as anti-semitism. Of course anti-Semitism never went away, just as anti-Arabaism never went away (ironoic that you whine about people hating Jews while you blabber on about the evil of Arabs, you reap what you sow dipshit), just as racism against black people never went away (which your posts above show). However, the actions of the murderous state of Israel and the brain dead and reactionary followers like yourself are sure to increase anti-Semitism. You say that it isn't about "winning popularity contests", again, what idiot would think of it in those terms? If you have a state of Israel that cannot be morally or logically defended, and people far more intelligent and articulate than yourself have failed on both fronts over and over again throughout the years, it isn't about "popularity contests", it's about reality, which you seem to have a problem with. At some point there will be a reaction against Israel and the defenders of that murderous state and instead of seeing Israel's and people like your actions as a reason you'll whine about the invisible worldwide anti-Jew conspiracy (funilly enough, people like you say some of the most articulate critiques of Israel are Jewish themselves and are "anti-Semetic").

Why is Africa the way it is? Why is Latin America's standard of living far bellow Asia's as well? Latin America followed Western orders economically in the past few decades, they had their resources stolen, their democracies attacked, have seen millions of their people slaughtered, just like Africa. Asia has typically followed a state centered economic development. When Japan showed themselves to be superior to the UK and the US in manufacturing goods what did they and the rest of the West do? Scrap "free trade" and close off their countries to Japanese imports. That has been the case before even WWII. South Korea, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, all used state centered economic development, most of them in order to counter China's influence in the region, China has been alllowed to have a state run economic development if most of the benefits get siphened off to the West, which is what has happened. Latin America and Africa have not been so lucky. They haven't been able to militarilly defend themselves like Japan and China (a nuclear power) have . They haven't been allowed by the West, for complex reasons that you're ignorant to, to have state centered economic development. They haven't been allowed to protect domestric industry, like Asian coutnries have, so they could truly develop. Does it make those regions less of people or less intelligent? No, they aren't as good of killers as whitey is and they didn't get whitey's ok to develop as they pleased, so they're behind developmentally.

Latin Ameica in particular is doing so now, and soon enough whitey will have to trade on more equal terms. Africa could use a Chavez or Castro.

By the way, Charles Tilly has written extensively about European state development and shows pretty clearly that violence, microbes and military might have been the reason that whitey has been able to subdue the rest of the world. Whitey had been practicing killing one another for centuries, on scales far bigger than elsewhere, and perfected the art of war. It wasn't intelligence, hard work or ability (a good portion of our scientific & mathmatic advancements emerged outside of whitey's world), it was force, and we know you have no problem with violence, cause you're a brave internet warrior.

Anyways, Down with Israel!

"When arabs vote, they vote in muslim fundementalists."

Tell us genius, did Israel ever support Hamas? Did Israel ever support Islamic fundamentalist groups to counter the influence of Iran, the left and people the SECULAR Nasser? Yes, as you don't obviously know Nasser and the secular left in the ME was a huge influence in decades past (in Egypt it is now making a bit of a comeback). Nasser and the left in the ME was a threat to US and Western objectives for economic & ideological reasons, was a threat to the Saudi Royal family because of its calls for a more secular and democratic movement and a threat to Israel for obvious reasons. The threat even spread to within the Saudi Royal family at one time. So all banded together and funded groups like Hamas, the Saudi run World Muslim League, etc. to counter this influence. ISRAEL funded many of these groups and Arabs backed these secular, and leftist elements. Hell, the Iranian Revolution had many secular, populist elements that were eventually controlled by the religious fundamentalists there. You really are a stupid, one sided reactionary. You're also a racist anti-Arab, and again, you do this because you're online and don't have to say this to anyone's face. You're a loud mouthed, closed off from the world know nothing coward.

I just want to clarrify that I was just being a jerk when I said down with Israel, I sunk to his level.