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Torture and the Rule of Law
The New Yorker's Jane Mayer, one of the country's handful of truly excellent investigative journalists over the last seven years, has written a new book -- "The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned Into a War on American Ideals" -- which reveals several extraordinary (though unsurprising) facts regarding America's torture regime. According to the New York Times and Washington Post, both of which received an advanced copy, Mayer's book reports the following:
- "Red Cross investigators concluded last year in a secret report that the Central Intelligence Agency's interrogation methods for high-level Qaeda prisoners constituted torture and could make the Bush administration officials who approved them guilty of war crimes."
- "A CIA analyst warned the Bush administration in 2002 that up to a third of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay may have been imprisoned by mistake, but White House officials ignored the finding and insisted that all were 'enemy combatants' subject to indefinite incarceration."
- "[A] top aide to Vice President Cheney shrugged off the report and squashed proposals for a quick review of the detainees' cases . . .'There will be no review,' the book quotes Cheney staff director David Addington as saying. 'The president has determined that they are ALL enemy combatants. We are not going to revisit it.'"
- "[T]he [CIA] analyst estimated that a full third of the camp's detainees were there by mistake. When told of those findings, the top military commander at Guantanamo at the time, Major Gen. Michael Dunlavey, not only agreed with the assessment but suggested that an even higher percentage of detentions -- up to half -- were in error. Later, an academic study by Seton Hall University Law School concluded that 55 percent of detainees had never engaged in hostile acts against the United States, and only 8 percent had any association with al-Qaeda."
- [T]he International Committee of the Red Cross declared in the report, given to the C.I.A. last year, that the methods used on Abu Zubaydah, the first major Qaeda figure the United States captured, were 'categorically' torture, which is illegal under both American and international law".
- "[T]he Red Cross document 'warned that the abuse constituted war crimes, placing the highest officials in the U.S. government in jeopardy of being prosecuted.'"
This is what a country becomes when it decides that it will not live under the rule of law, when it communicates to its political leaders that they are free to do whatever they want -- including breaking our laws -- and there will be no consequences. There are two choices and only two choices for every country -- live under the rule of law or live under the rule of men. We've collectively decided that our most powerful political leaders are not bound by our laws -- that when they break the law, there will be no consequences. We've thus become a country which lives under the proverbial "rule of men" -- that is literally true, with no hyperbole needed -- and Mayer's revelations are nothing more than the inevitable by-product of that choice.
That's why this ongoing debate that Andrew Sullivan is having with himself and his readers over whether "torture is worse than illegal, warrantless eavesdropping" is so misplaced, and it's also why those who are dismissing as "an overblown distraction" the anger generated by last week's Congressional protection of surveillance lawbreakers are so deeply misguided. Things like "torture" and "illegal eavesdropping" can't be compared as though they're separate, competing policies. They are rooted in the same framework of lawlessness. The same rationale that justifies one is what justifies the other. Endorsing one is to endorse all of it.
In fact, none of the scandals of radicalism and criminality which we've learned about over the last seven years -- including the creation of this illegal torture regime -- can be viewed in isolation. They're all by-products of the country that we've become in the post-9/11 era, primarily as a result of our collective decision to exempt our Government leaders from the rule of law; to acquiesce to the manipulative claim that we can only be Safe if we allow our Leaders to be free from consequences when they commit crimes; and to demonize advocates of the rule of law as -- to use Larry Lessig's mindless, reactionary clichés -- shrill, Leftist "hysterics" who need to "get off [their] high horse(s)".
That is the mentality that has allowed the Bush administration to engage in this profound assault on our national character, to violate our laws at will. Our political and media elite have acquiesced to all of this when they weren't cheering it all on. Those who object to it, who argue that these abuses of political power are dangerous in the extreme and that we cannot tolerate deliberate government lawbreaking, are dismissed as shrill Leftist hysterics.
All the way back in May, 2006 -- just months after the NYT revealed the illegal NSA spying program -- I wrote in my first book, How Would a Patriot Act, the following about the NSA eavesdropping scandal:
This is not about eavesdropping. This is about whether we are a nation of laws . . . . The heart of the matter is that the President broke the law, repeatedly and deliberately, no matter what his rationale for doing so was . . . .
The National Security Agency eavesdropping scandal is not an isolated act of lawbreaking. It is an outgrowth of an ideology of lawlessness that has been adopted by the Bush administration as its governing doctrine. Others include the incarceration in military prisons of U.S. citizens who were not charged with any crime or even allowed access to a lawyer, the use of legally prohibited torture techniques, and the establishment of a military detention center in Guantanamo Bay, a no-man's-land that the administration claims is beyond the reach of U.S. law. In the media and the public mind, these issues have been seen in isolation, as though they are unconnected.
In fact, all of these controversial actions can be traced to a single cause, a shared root. They are grounded in, and are the by-product of, an unprecedented and truly radical theory of presidential power that, at its core, maintains that the president's power is literally unlimited and absolute in matters relating to terrorism or national security. . . .
What we have in our federal government are not individual acts of lawbreaking or isolated scandals of illegality, but instead a culture and an ideology of lawlessness.
But those who argued such things were The Shrill Leftists, The Crazed Civil-Liberties Extremists, the Hysterics. And they still are. By contrast, Serious People understood -- and still understand -- that our leaders made complex and weighty decisions for our own Good and that terms like "lawbreaking" and "war crimes" and "prosecutions" have no place in respectable American political circles. Hence, our political leaders operate in a climate where they know they can do anything -- anything at all, including flagrantly breaking our most serious laws -- and they will be defended, or at least have their behavior mitigated, by a virtually unanimous political and media establishment. The hand-wringing over Mayer's latest revelations will be led by the very people who are responsible for what has taken place -- responsible because they decided that rampant, deliberate lawbreaking by our Government officials was nothing to get worked up over.
There are many political disputes -- probably most -- composed of two or more reasonable sides. Whether the U.S. Government has committed war crimes by torturing detainees -- conduct that is illegal under domestic law and international treaties which are binding law in this country -- isn't an example of a reasonable, two-sided political dispute. Nor is the issue of whether the U.S. Government and the telecom industry engaged in illegal acts for years by spying on Americans without warrants. Nor is the question of whether we should allow Government officials to break our laws at will by claiming that doing so is necessary to keep us Safe.
There just aren't two sides to those matters. That's what the International Red Cross means when it says that what we did to Guantanamo detainees was "categorically torture." It's what the only federal judges to decide on the question -- all three -- have concluded when they found that the President clearly broke our laws with no valid excuses by spying on our communications for years with no warrants. It's why the Bush administration has sought -- and repeatedly received -- immunity and amnesty for the people who have implemented these policies. It's because these actions are clearly illegal -- criminal -- and we all know that.
And that's true no matter how many Bush-loyal DOJ lawyers justify the behavior, no matter how many right-wing lawyers go on TV to defend the Government's conduct, no matter how many Brookings "scholars" go to The New Republic in order flamboyantly to boast how deeply complex these matters are and how only Super-Experts (like themselves) can grapple with the fascinating intellectual puzzles they pose. Displaying cognitive angst and/or above-it-all indifference in the face of unambiguously illegal and morally reprehensible government conduct isn't a sign of intellectual sophistication or political Seriousness. It's exactly the opposite. It's the hallmark of complicity with it. Law Professor Jonathan Turley, on MSNBC last night discussing Mayer's revelations, put it this way:
[The IRC] is the world's preeminent institution on the conditions and treatment of prisoners and specifically what constitutes torture. And the important thing here is they're saying it's not a close question, that as many of us, and there are many, many of us who have argued for years that this is clearly, unmistakably a torture program; the Red Cross is saying the same.
The problem for the Bush administration is they perfected plausible deniability techniques. They bring out one or two people that are willing to debate on cable shows whether water-boarding is torture. And it leaves the impression that it's a close question. It's not. It's just like the domestic surveillance program that the a federal court just a week ago also said was not a close question. These are illegal acts. These are crimes. And there weren't questions before and there's not questions now as to the illegality. . . .
I never thought I would say this, but I think it might, in fact, be time for the United States to be held internationally to a tribunal. I never thought, in my lifetime, that I would say that, that we have become like Serbia, where an international tribunal has to come to force us to apply the rule of law. I never imagined that a Congress, a Democratic-led Congress would refuse to take actions, even with the preeminent institution of the Red Cross saying, this is clearly torture and torture is a war crime. They are still refusing to take meaningful action.
So, we've come to this ignoble moment where we could be force into a tribunal and forced to face the rule of law that we've refused to apply to ourselves.
That's the inevitable outcome when a country's political establishment decrees itself exempt from the rule of law. If the rule of law doesn't constrain the actions of government officials, then nothing will. Continuous revelations of serious government lawbreaking have led not to investigations or punishment but to retroactive immunity and concealment of the crimes. Judicial findings of illegal government behavior have led to Congressional action to protect the lawbreakers. The Detainee Treatment Act. The Military Commissions Act. The Protect America Act. The FISA Amendments Act. They're all rooted in the same premise: that our highest government leaders have the power to ignore our laws with impunity, and when they're caught, they should be immunized and protected, not punished.
When our political and media elite aren't defending the Bush administration's lawbreaking, they're dismissing its importance. David Broder believes that government crimes are mere "policy disputes" that shouldn't be punished. And here's "liberal" pundit Tim Rutten of The Los Angeles Times, acknowledging that our highest political officials ordered illegal torture, but then invoking the very common -- and indescribably destructive -- mentality of most of our Good Establishment Liberals to insist that they should not be held legally accountable:
It's true that there are a handful of European rights activists and people on the lacy left fringe of American politics who would dearly like to see such trials, but actually pursuing them would be a profound -- even tragic -- mistake. Our political system works as smoothly as it does, in part, because we've never criminalized differences over policy. Since Andrew Jackson's time, our electoral victors celebrate by throwing the losers out of work -- not into jail cells.
The Bush administration has been wretchedly mistaken in its conception of executive power, deceitful in its push for war with Iraq and appalling in its scheming to make torture an instrument of state power. But a healthy democracy punishes policy mistakes, however egregious, and seeks redress for its societal wounds, however deep, at the ballot box and not in the prisoner's dock.
To do otherwise risks the stability of our own electoral politics almost as recklessly as the Bush/Cheney regime has risked our national interests abroad.
That warped mentality -- as much as the most lawless elements of the Bush administration -- is what is responsible for the destruction of our fundamental national character over the last seven years. "Laws" and "crimes" are only for the common people and for other countries. We're too magasterial a country, our political leaders are too Important and Good, to subject them to punishment when they break our laws. That's the mentality that has created the climate of Lawlessness that defines who we are.
Yes, I'm well aware that the U.S, like all countries, was deeply imperfect prior to 9/11, and that many of the systematic excesses of the Bush era have their genesis prior to 2001. The difference (a critical one) is that what had been acts of lawbreaking and violations of our national values have become the norm -- consistent with, rather than violative of, our express values and policies. As Mayer writes in her book:
For the first time in its history, the United States sanctioned government officials to physically and psychologically torment U.S.-held captives, making torture the official law of the land in all but name.
The enactment of the new FISA bill last week was destructive for many reasons, including the fact that it legalized a regime of warrantless eavesdropping that is certain to be abused. But the far more destructive aspect of the new law is that it was just the latest example -- albeit the most flagrant -- of our political class abolishing the rule of law in this country.
It will never stop being jarring that Pulitzer-Prize-winning revelations from the New York Times that the President and the telecom industry were committing felonies for years culminated in the full-scale protection of the lawbreakers and retroactive legalization of the criminality by the "opposition party" which controls the Congress.
One cannot coherently sanction or even acquiesce to serious government lawbreaking and then feign outrage over illegal torture and other war crimes. The sanctioning of government illegality is precisely what leads to abuses like the American torture regime. Those who have spent the last seven years scoffing at Unserious, Hysterical objections to Bush lawlessness are the very people who have created this climate that they will now pretend to find so upsetting. The "rule of law" isn't some left-wing dogma that is the propriety of Leftist radicals and hysterics. It's the cornerstone of every civilized and free society, and Jane Mayer's new book is but the latest piece of evidence to prove that.
Glenn Greenwald was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York. He is the author of the New York Times Bestselling book "How Would a Patriot Act?," a critique of the Bush administration's use of executive power, released in May 2006. His second book, "A Tragic Legacy", examines the Bush legacy.
© Salon.com
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Telecoms do not have immunity from criminal liability, only civil liability (where lawyers come in making million dollar mountains out of molehills). FISA is a nontransparent secret court that hardly ever denies the Justice Department's warrants.
Pardon the repetition; I just posted the following to the Chris Hedges article, because this one wasn't up yet. (I can't figure out if the CD comments are indexed with permalinks.)
________________________________________________
There is the old joke, famously recounted by Woody Allen in "Annie Hall", and here paraphrased because I don't feel like Googling it:
I mentioned to my psychiatrist, "You know, my brother thinks he's a chicken."
The psychiatrist said, "Oh? Well, why don't you bring him in to see me?"
I said, "Well, I would, but… we need the eggs."
————————————————-
That's not only the story of Alvy Singer and Annie Hall, it's the story of progressive America and the Democratic Party. A tragicomedy of Lesser-Evilism collapsing in on itself into a singularity.
We indeed need the eggs, but we don't need rotten eggs.
________________________________________________
The clumsy, low-grade (and yes, shrill) sarcasm and bankrupt logic habitually wielded by kitty, ezeflyer, elderlady and others– not merely loyal Democrats, but defenders of the corrupt duopoly within which the Democrats and their anointed candidates are permanently deemed the Last, Best Hope for Mankind worthy of unconditional support– is founded on a principle exactly equivalent to "Well, I would, but… we need the eggs".
Another analogy occurs to me: the Party of Cain (R) and the Party of Judas (D) are like a pair of dice. The Democratic apologists acknowledge that We the People have been suffering a run of incredibly bad luck this century. They correctly believe that the Cain die is loaded. And admit that, to some extent, this has also caused the Judas die to become unacceptably skewed.
But they also firmly believe that the ONLY solution is to hang tough, and pragmatically keep rolling those dice! They believe that this brand of loaded dice is actually SELF-CORRECTING, and that the mature, constructive tactic of patiently and hopefully rolling the dice over and over will overcome the defects in the dice.
Like any gambler with a "system", the rollers find abundant evidence that they're on the right track, and that more of the same is sure to bring them to a tipping point and the express road to decisively beating the house. Look, I rolled X three times in a row! Now tell me how YOU expect to do better if you won't even ROLL these dice! Meanwhile, the dealer is raking back one stack of chips after the other.
No WONDER these hapless addicts start clutching bystanders and snarling that it's useless kibbitzers like THEM who are bringing them bad luck.
In fact, BOTH dice are loaded. There are abundant analyses and arguments for how each got that way. And (Google "nine-dot problem") the solution can only come from going outside the rigged system. The Judas die will not self-correct incrementally by dint of an infinite series of modest rolls. One way or another, those dice must be shattered, and replaced or rebuilt.
Baby needs a new pair of shoes.
Glenn Greenwald is doing us a great service by writing all these outstanding articles exposing the criminality of our government. Thank goodness for people like Glenn who have the courage to speak truth to power no matter what the cost. Kudos!
"...decides that it will not live under the rule of law,..."
-You would think the opposition pastry would oppose the Republican descent into unconstitutional lawlessness, but you would be wrong.
This is not about eavesdropping. This is about whether we are a nation of laws.
- Somehow Democratic Party apologists like dougnwagner "seem" incapable of understanding this, however dougnwagner has been featured on the front page of Obama's web page and is a studying to be a lawyer. He is not a neutral person and has ties to the Obama campaign. I believe it is his task to disseminate misinformation in an effort to obscure the role of the Democrats and Obama in assisting the Republicans with their agenda of turning us into a police state. This is my guess because he is not as naïve or stupid as he sounds. A Democrat will enjoy whatever extrajudicial powers are granted to Bush if he becomes president, which in a two-party duopoly is sure to happen sooner or later.
Democratic Party apologist is trying to spin their complete capitulation and prostration before the Republicans and their wholesale undermining of our constitutional government as really not a big deal. Perhaps for them it isn't. The promise of power outweighs everything including the Constitution and the Bill of Rights for these people. That's sad.
Torture IS the Rule of Law
When the very first G.I.s cycled home from GITMO they spoke of "torture lite." Torture Lite? Is that like being only a 'little' bit pregnant? Congress had to know what we were doing from the very first like the rest of the world did. Congress has also provided enough (borrowed) tax money to continue these war crimes into the next election. Now they want our votes? Such hubris has always called the wrath of the gods upon the heads of man.
Posting long tirades on this site like Repug shills do, is a full time, well-paying job.
It is no surprise that this issue is not covered on the TV news in the U.S. Check out this BBC report on The CIA "mystery flights" here:
http://liberationvideo.blogspot.com/2008/06/cia-mystery-flights.html
Also the importance of torture as part of the "Shock Doctrine".
http://liberationvideo.blogspot.com/2008/07/shock-doctrine-rise-of-disaster.html
Although I fully agree with your sentiment about the criminal abuses of power and violations of international agreements relating to torture, I also believe that there needs to be more focus on the inception of the covert policy.
By the time CheneyOilCo got their meaty little hands around "extraordinary rendition", escalated and expanded the practice to the military and others, the CIA had been practicing torture by proxy for 5 years.
Presidential directive "PDD 39" was devised and signed by Bill Clinton in 1995... allowing circumvention of the US ratified United Nations Convention Against Torture.
Snatch and torture flights... rendition to foreign countries and elimination of any semblance of due process was Bubba's baby. We need to look closely at ALL forms of US initiated torture, including torture by proxy.
Even though it is subcontracted and outsourced, that process is still US torture and those who sanction it should be viewed to be as culpible for the acts as those crimes committed directly by US authorities.
L I T T L E __ B R O T H E R,
You're on a "roll" buddy … too bad that it's
down hill
Well, I certainly post long tirades on this site, so maybe I'M the Republican shill lurking behind the grassy knoll.
Paranoid attribution of madness or badness to those who deviate from one's own idiosyncratic understanding and beliefs is a symptom of political hysteria.
It's the same impulse that, writ larger, inspired accusations from witchcraft to being a communist sympathizer.
Months ago, I became involved in an exchange with someone who still posts on CD once in a long while. I will not, of course, Name Names. This person is, or was, a dedicated Democratic Party apologist. I finally got pissed off at his asinine reiteration that I must be either an outright wingnut or a paid troll, and posted a scathing rebuttal.
This person eventually responded, in part, that OK-- maybe I WASN'T a Republican hireling. But EVEN SO, regardless of whether I INTENDED or calculated my comments to effect this end, I was a de facto renegade to the cause-- because my relentless well-written but poisonously negative and critical comments were a drag to him. He believed that I had a responsibility to Provide Solutions, without which he could fairly deem me irrelevant and accordingly dismiss me.
I paraphrase.
Each of us must, and does, judge according to our individual wits and sensibilities. But the attribution of bad faith is a "fatal exception" that crashes the dialogue.
PS-- Off-the-wall, stream-of-consciousness thought: It's like arguing with a kid who keeps yelling, "What do you MEAN, there's no Santa Claus? SOMEBODY is going to have to come down that chimney on Christmas Eve!"
Hey, not to take you off this site as it's great. But, Ohio where I am from is a battle ground state and Obama has only a small lead. Anyway, a blog with many Neo-Cons who are just blinded by the right are on this site as follows: www.southeasternohiopreps.com, you'll have to register and then you can get to the political forum at the bottom of the page.
Anyways us Progessive in Ohio need your helps as there are many Independent voters on this site who are being brain washed into the PNAC agenda.
Obama went down 15 points in the polls. The country is now 3 points away from another Bush/McCaine/Repug administration.
This is no time for public criticism. That time was before the nomination.
I and others here will not forgive you if you give us more of that hell.
In my view this is the most important article by Greenwald to date. Last night I stopped in at a little jazz club in a VERY conservative area and the pianist who told me he had been a Republican all his life (jazz, no doubt!) had voted for Obama in the primaries. I told him that unfortunately it's turning out that Obama is an insider, too. Poor guy... 76 and finally "changing teams" to find the same shit.
RICH M: I also noticed the same thing you did. The deficit of anything close to conscience in persons who can dismiss aggressive war/torture and illegal wiretapping as mere "policy differences," is breathtaking.
I would like to have seen Greenwald also add the "signing statements" to this particular article because they speak so directly to this idea of "unitary executive" which of course is the king-model for the 21st century, one obviously that works in synch with the personality archetypes of authoritarians who occupy both sides of the supposed political aisle.
Also, I would submit that such a presidential stance is not radical but reactionary given it scales back to much earlier ages and times in supposed human evolution.
And now my leit motif: all this emphasis on war & militarism has caused a retardation of the necessary couter-balancing "oar" that would allow for a modicum of progress. It's about transcending the war state. The war state relies on sycophants and those that lick the boots of "leadership." It is always hierarchical, relies on fear and terror, and what is its product? WAR? Death? Destruction? Chaos? Financial uncertainty? Brother hating brother?
I think things have to get this bad for mankind to wake-up. And we ARE there... the alarm clock is ringing, and some may find it feasible to cover their ears, but sooner or later their arms will grow tired and they will not be able to escape the chiming chords of collapse. And then the phoenix begins its resurrection.
It is a good sign that Kucinich, Bugliosi, Dean, Greenwald, Sheehan and others are saying NO to all this insanity... and some of them getting at least some medium time. We do not know what the action may be that finally subsumes this rendition of Darth's death star in our "white house."
PS:
Ezeflyer has contributed some wonderful comments to this forum, as has Little Brother. I think you're both intelligent sound thinkers... and possibly the pain we're all feeling in the face of feeling IMPOTENT to change the grotesque nature of our nation's political landscape is turning us on one another. Shake hands fellas...
we've got to show tolerance if ever those further down the spiritual-intellectual "food chain" are expected to do so!
This article and Glenn Greenwald's work in general, is simply fantastic. I am continually amazed at how far to the right we have slid in this country to even have debates over the rule of law. We have come to a moment in time where everything has been flipped on its head and Greenwald is doing a fantastic job at using logic, history, and common sense to keep these discussions based in rationality.
- Chris
http://chriscommons.blogspot.com
Siouxrose, you are a log in a sea of uncertainty and my favorite poster.
It's hard not to react when the stakes are so high. Liberals have a hard time following the crowd anyway.
I will try not to offend...
Not the time for public criticism? Excuse me?
I won't be asking forgiveness from anyone with that attitude, though the heavens fall.
If Obama's poll numbers are falling, maybe it's Obama who's doing something wrong, and maybe he's the one who needs to change his behavior.
EZE: You are very kind. It's not about NOT offending, by all means live and be and speak YOUR truth. (Aren't you an Aquarian? The sign to which Truth is sacrosanct?)
The problem is we all have a better vision for our nation, and hopefully the world. Obama came on the scene with genuine promise, but for whatever reasons (inherent lack of integrity? a threat on his family? Listening to bad advisors? That 12th house karmic test that he as a Leo has now fallen into? Other?) has proven a sell-out. It's a shame we are faced with such compromised decisions. I am trying to sort it out, myself. Do I go with pragmatism, Obama the lesser of evils; or take the long-shot on the slow development of a viable 3rd party? McCain IS insane. Obama CAN reason and HAS a soul, but will he prove fealty to mammon over the voice of his own heart & soul?
No question he has to be quite an operator to have gotten as far as he has... it's tough to know for certain which master he serves, although lately, the forecast AIN'T groovy.
RICH M: I wish you were a moderator on C-Span. I gave up tv almost 2 years ago, but I used to watch EVERY morning and it upset me greatly that liars were not called to task when they were busy pontificating. I'd love to see clips of the Repubs pushing the "ownership society" and the statistics on home ownership that went up under Bush, that is, until the whole stinking umbrella cast upon hot air has begun to come tumbling down with devastating fiscal reverberations throughout the land.
Rich... you need a bigger forum. Our fish bowl is not providing you with enough space to really get the ideas where they belong. Your capacity to site the weakness in another's argument is a powerful asset; however, our forum deserves to respect a pool of opinions. There IS an argument for how much time we have... can the nation survive the direct bludgeoning of a McCain as opposed to the gentle kick in the head from Obama, who could yet turn out to be the chameleon who turns on his handlers to transcend his own legacy by doing something good for the human condition. Allow for surprises! (And I am in no way seeking to debate you. I am not up to the task, nor as knowledgable in areas that you are endowed. It just seems that almost every day someone is chosen for targe practice in this forum. I had the luxury about a year ago. Maybe that's how we crudely hone our arguments, but I'd like to think progressives don't have to turn their forums into the same blood fests that seem the norm for our fellow citizens who remain inured to the abounding suffering of so many. EZE, me, and you have something in common we ought not forget: we all wish for the IDEAL of a more just & sane & caring society. Some of us argue that economics form the basis for that recipe, others bring complementary perspectives forward. No one is 100% right and no one 100% wrong... our points of view are all part of the mesh of the human fabric. Instead of directing frustration at one another, we need to strengthen the fabric of our fraternity (sisterhood) and make it a force for change. We cannot explain the metaphysical impact of a power that does work: when 2 or more are gathered together in alignment with the same HIGH cause, unexpected developments can and do happen.
Why shouldn'y McC and BO get closer in the polls - BO is sounding more and more like a repug or Clintonite every day.
Let us not forget how he has recently been loaded up with Clinton and Bush handlers.. er campaign strategists by his corporate fascist bosses.
From a quote within the article (ie something the writer is quoting, but which he fails to shoot down):
"To do otherwise [meaning to impeach the transgressors] risks the stability of our own electoral politics almost as recklessly as the Bush/Cheney regime has risked our national interests abroad."
This is saying they trashed the Constitution, but hey, no-one's perfect so let's put all that behind us and move on. This could not be more wrong. To FAIL to do so white-ants the whole integrity of the system. The checks and balances are there; they should be used as was intended.
What Obama's shills on CD really want is blind devotion: "This is no time for public criticism. That time was before the nomination."
Here's a little news-flash for ezeflyer and anyone else who thinks Obama has already been nominated: There's still enough time before the nomination for the super-delegates to develop a conscience and nominate a Democrat with real principles like Chris Dodd, who was filibustering the FISA bill while Obama was planning a humongous celebration of himself in Mile High Stadium.
That's alright by me Jacob. As long as the new candidate can beat the Bush/McCain/Repugs, I don't much care if it's Homer Simpson. Can things get much worse?
ezeflyer: I'm surprised by your reply to my post, and regret my hasty assumption about you. IMHO McCain and his freakishly corrupt circle of friends like Phil Gramm could do even more damage than Bush, and that's saying a hell of a lot.
ezeflyer----You ask, can things get much worse? My question right now is, do either of these anointed frontrunners have the capacity or intention to make things better? We have a real mess on our hands and frankly, neither of them has the power to do a whole heckuva lot to turn the Titanic. We are going to have to turn to each other and help each other however and wherever we can. Those at the top in both parties are really only looking out for Number One. Not sure what else they have to do for you to see that. Neither Dems nor Repubs care about us little people. We'd better start caring for each other.
The other day, someone told me that they were "afraid that black guy might actually wind up in the White House and how terrible that would be for the country..."
After all, "he's a secret Muslim who hates white people and will probably raise taxes and spend the country into disaster."
For the past couple days, I have been considering what they said, and comparing it to the current State of the Nation...
THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCOMPLISHED OVER THE PAST 8 YEARS BY PRESIDENT BUSH AND A CONGRESS THAT HAS REPEATEDLY GIVEN HIM A BLANK CHECK…
Unilaterally attacked and took over two countries.
Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
In his eight years in office MILLIONS of Americans have lost their jobs.
Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
Oversaw the consolidation of the news media into the hands of very few extremely wealthy and powerful people like Rupert Murdoch and Sun Yung Moon who would happily propagate the news approved and sometimes even written by the White House.
Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves to force prices down as past presidents have.
Oversaw a totally incompetent Secretary of Defense who allowed tons of Iraqi ammo dumps to be looted by enemy factions in Iraq.
Oversaw a totally incompetent Department of State that allowed TONS of U.S. dollars to be stolen or "misplaced" in Iraq.
Oversaw the Iraqi rebuilding projects being handled by embezzling "no-bid contractors".
Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him.(15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
His presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
Members of his cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations. his biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
First US president to ACTIVATE a secret shadow government.
Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
Failed to fulfill his pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
In the 18 months following the 911 attacks he successfully prevented any serious public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
First US president in history to add hundreds of "signing statements" to bills he signed, explaining how he intended to interpret those laws.
Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Oversaw the influx of millions of illegal aliens while at the same time refusing to enforce the Immigration laws.
Oversaw the exodus of millions of American jobs to countries overseas.
The current state of the nation…
Our Treasury is severely deflated and committed to nearly 3 times as many future dollars as it was in 2001.
Tens of thousands of Americans have been displaced by storms and natural disasters and after as much as three years, the aid has not yet reached many of them.
We are enmeshed in two wars that never seem to end, despite frequent changes in tactics.
Our stock market has been completely stagnant for nearly 8 years. The Dow Jones Industrials are currently lower than they were in the Spring of 2000.
Millions of people including the families of our soldiers are being evicted from their homes.
Major banks and financial corporations are failing at an alarming rate.
Energy prices, food prices, medical care, insurance and just about everything else are skyrocketing in cost.
Weather extremes have accelerated rapidly, prompting many environmental scientists to say that air, water and soil pollution may have reached the point of no return.
…and the Republicans are afraid of losing control of Congress and the White House????
Personally, I think we should bring the troops home and replace Congress with THEM!
Decent people worldwide are horrified and outraged by these events. Unfortunately, however, Congress comprises very few decent people; there are heartless, brainless Republicans and spineless Democrats who take the course of least resistance.
Bush's base in the conservative Christian community, in its unwavering support for wars of aggression, fraudulent war profiteering, torture, forced disappearance, wholesale slaughter of civilians, landmines and cluster bombs, has put its moral values on display for the world to see, and it's an ugly sight. Those values owe everything to Joshua, Machiavelli and Torquemada and nothing to Jesus, but that doesn't seem to matter.
I've always thought that it is rather odd that some people actually support tyranny (i.e., unaccountable power) since as Montesquieu noted tyranny represents the eventual collapse of the state through internal weakening.
I suppose that tyranny is desirable for nincumpoops since in a tyranny nincumpoops can force people to admire and respect them. In other words, tyranny is a product of an ego dysfunction.
It's sad that I live in such an oppressive country. My parents fled a communist country in 1956, and I see that our country is moving closer and closer to becoming an oppressive totalitarian government. Lawlessness is a good word to reflect the nature of our 'ruling' class.
'Vote Third Party.' I repeat these words, not to necessarily change anybody's opinion, but to know that at least somebody tried to warm the others.
You voters for the democratic party do so at your own peril. The one thing that I ask is that you don't deny the reality of Obama's non-progressive position on the most important issues that our country is facing- the Iraq War, Corporate Corruption, Environmental destruction, universal health care, death penalty etc. The sad fact is that you can't. I hope the causes Obama does support will support your vision of a just and fair government (but I'm not holding my breath).
Our country is mean spirited, and is responsible for a large amount of the man-caused misery on this planet.
From the land of cluster bombs and mines, I will again say, Vote Third Party, don't support the corporate elite by voting democratic or republican.
VOTE THIRD PARTY
Dear Provoice.
Looks like an agenda. Wonder what other twisted desires are being passed into "law"?
I'm an older man with a lot of problems my friends here, if I am permitted such familiarity, don't need to be bothered with. It just really reduces my energy...
I have read all of Greenwald's articles in the last couple of weeks and he strikes me as a person of calm intellect and strength of character. He is correct with his analysis of these collective behaviors and the cultural enabling that fuels it.
To me it is reflective of the word "spin" that is used to lull the mind into believing there is basically nothing wrong, or criminal, occurring. Just a difference in opinion. It is a word that will prevent thought, an upset stomach at 5:30 a.m., the wrong attitude by the time you get to work.
Rather than say a word like "prevarication," or "equivocation," or a phrase such as "The pathological liar stood at the presidential pulpit..." At this point in time, with all the documentation "on the table" concerning this administration and it's minions, there is no need to be polite, civil or to defer to their office. As the legislative branch will not do it's duty to it's oath of office with all of this in front of their collective consciousness is probably the vilest observation in my 61+ years. I think between the executive and legislative over the last 8 years, I have suffered more PTSD than when I was in S.E.Asia. I am no harbinger of doom. But these tentacles that reach from this admin. started destroying this democratic republic long before this idiot was placed into power by the SCOTUS. As a retired teacher I have reams of paper that illustrate and identify the throngs of right wing organizations that coalesced their power without ever revealing their connectedness, not to mention the common benefactors on their boards, to destroy public education for no more reason than to privatize it for every other corporate reason, money.
If these scum do not choke on their false beliefs, I am sorry I was not able to do enough.
"But a healthy democracy punishes policy mistakes, however egregious, and seeks redress for its societal wounds, however deep, at the ballot box and not in the prisoner's dock."
Side stepping this argument (or using it's truth in another context) is one of the reasons I encourage focus on impeachment and shun war crimes for the time being. To me directing the argument to war crimes (imprison-able offenses) disburses too many from the argument, where with impeachment the scoundrels are merely removed from office with some restrictions from further governmental service, but in return we get a national conversation and means for action of directly exposing and confronting the most abhorrent aspects of our national behavior, regardless of how long they have been going on or who was committing them.
Impeachment, what a concept; the Union Founders really came up with some good ideas.
"PS– Off-the-wall, stream-of-consciousness thought: It's like arguing with a kid who keeps yelling, "What do you MEAN, there's no Santa Claus? SOMEBODY is going to have to come down that chimney on Christmas Eve!" - Little Brother
Good stream, it flows into the attractiveness of the impeachment conversation. Our current National organizing myth is the War of Terror; whose tentacles have slithered deep into the consciousness vacuum (there is no Santa Claus) of America. In the conversations surrounding the Obama/Rev. Wright topic the only time there was a transcendence of us vs. them was when the discussion touched on "Our Constitution".
Impeachment, hanging like ripe red delicious apples. The more we pick and bite, the more the sweet juices succor the process of humanly dignified justice the confronts our most abhorrent National behavior, including racism, while transforming our National myth away from the War of Terror, and toward Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
How America came to conduct torture is simple. The same group of people that established and ran the Soviet Gulag, with all its torture and murder, now has control of the US government. Do you know what the Cheka was in the early days of the Bolsheviks?? Do you know who David Addington is, or Kristol, or Perle, or Feith, or Wolfowitz?? Can you connect the dots? Maybe a little research on Yagoda, or Kaganovich, would improve your understanding. Just the FACTS, folks, just the FACTS.
"The war state relies on sycophants and those that lick the boots of "leadership." It is always hierarchical, relies on fear and terror, and what is its product? WAR? Death? Destruction? Chaos? Financial uncertainty? Brother hating brother?"
"we've got to show tolerance if ever those further down the spiritual-intellectual "food chain" are expected to do so!"
Sioux Rose: I've been challenged by hierarchy for a long time, and now as I become enmeshed in circles and spiraling flow forms, the concept and act remain a frustration. Is the state of war a "lower" life form, or is war a constant state of the circle, thus making a reconciliation of it's "how" the functional focus?
I remember a Joseph Campbell story where he relates how, like those in the American Ghetto producing poetry slams and hip hop, some NE North American Indian tribes used a form of poetry contest to resolve the recurring situation of head butting alpha male energy. We don't really want to, if we indeed can, eliminate this scenario do we? If fact, considering we're triggering from Nevada hellcat missiles via airborne robots, don't we want to bring more of the face to face scenario back so that the energy can be organically processed?
And, of course, wouldn't impeachment hearings be a wonderful poetry slam for processing such energy thus?
We must at all costs get a Democratic President in the White House that cares more about the general welfare of Americans that one that cares about Imperial War-mongering and Corporate Greed.
Seven years of this kind of Faciast rule has weakened the checks and balances of our three branches of government, Americans civil liberties, wages, our economy and the honor of our Military.
Lets face facts, America has been hijacked by right wing lunatic fear mongering greedy bastards. The more we find out about the 9/11 attacks, the lies that led us into two wars, and the outcome of oil company take over of oil production in Iraq, the more Americans wake up.
Is their any doubt that the Right Wing Corporate Military Complex has a stranglehold on congress. I wonder how much data was collected on our elected officials with illegal warrant less wire tapping and surveillance.
The Democrats vote in congress like they are being blackmailed as well as bribed. This Administration would definitely spy on anyone and use the data to destroy or manipulate. Their spy machines are hard at work all over the country.Local spying is a must in each community, Terrorists could be anywhere.
Community watch groups spy on their own neighbors.Nation wide.Local Verizon outfits do the tapping, and street surveillance.
They will do anything and say anything to keep the Imperial War Machine law of the land.
One just has to read a couple of books like " SPIES FOR HIRE " by Tim Shorrock to realize that we are being over run by law enforcement growth based on using massive data collection.
400 billion dollars over the last 5 years have been spent on private contracts with private company's like CACI, L3 Communications.They build and maintain private Spy Networks.
The more data they collect , the more people you need to check on suspicious triggers in the data.
Triggers that are designed to create growth in law enforcement agencies.
The key to all of this is Warrant less wire taps, it all starts with the Telecom company's.
Millions of taps a day, huge super computer networks to collect and search for triggers.
If you had to wait for court signed warrants, these huge computer spy systems would sit idle.Oooooops there goes the billion dollar contracts.
If you read Tims book, go to the web sites of these private contractors that are spying on Americans, you will quickly find out that they have thousands of job positions available. IT, translators, security clearance positions, etc,etc.
Is it me, or do we now have a revolving door from the military to private spy contractors for high clearance individuals.
What about a really bad economy, where young men can not find good paying jobs, but hey we are at war, and guess where these young men are going.Though the war is unpopular, recruiting is back up.
Knock , knock , Iran you are a bad country.
We have been played, and if you look at the last 20 years, including the Neocon political war planning groups lead by Dick Cheney in the Ninety's, their plans were almost perfect.
The sad truth is this, history shows us that the Imperial Greed machine has always paid very well, and attracts the most brilliant people who can out think and out plan those of us not driven by the corruption of money.
So, until the Democrats start getting paid off well by non oil,non military corporations, even a Democratic president will a have very difficult time of unseating the power of the Bankers and Wall Street supporting this kind of world greed.
Don't forget the fuel that keeps America frozen ,,, fear, oil shortage, bad economy, Media Propaganda.
They have us by the short hairs, and we are in it so deep right now, that any major deviation from the master plan will definitely ruin this country.
They are so smart, go ahead attack Iran ,, 250/berral of oil. Good Buy America ,,,, Hello Police State.
You know , and I know, once Iran falls , the rest of that regions fall in to Imperial rule. Will that makes us more safe or less, only time will tell.
The question is this, how long will it take for Iran to fall, how many lives , or does world war three start.
Whether Americans agree or disagree is a mute point, we have no say, or haven't you noticed.
They have everything they need to control the angry mob, from the Spy machine to the in increase in ground law enforcement,non lethal crowd control weapons ,to private army's.
God Help us, I don't think the Next President can, assuming we even have elections.
BornFreeMen
PUCK TWAIN: It all goes back to the circle. A perfect form. It has no sides and reflects through the arrangements implicit to a SACRED geometry, a position for each of the 12 archetype expressions. (I believe these coincide with Jesus' choice of 12 disciples, and Abraham founding 12 tribes.)
Among the 12 is the expression of Mars. It IS a fundament of who we are, but only intended as ONE primary expression. As a matter of fact, the natural counterbalancing archetypal principle, Venus, is allotted 3 positions. These form a triangular shape (known as a Yod in astrology) that literally engulfs Mars and is intended to curb the dark impulses of this "god of war."
In my view, the movement from polytheism into monotheism broke the covenant of the holy circle. The attributes alloted to this 'one' god are those most consistent with Mars (war, machismo, militarism, might makes right, the power of the most influential individuals OVER others, i.e. a break in the circle to constitute the basis for a hieararchy) and Saturn (Chronos, the old "father" of time who is punitive as all authoritarians expect fathers to be).
What thus occured was a destabilization of that paradigm that would breed in human beings a balance of attributes not allowing Mars to take such precedence over human lives and affairs. Unfortunately religions have cultivated this god idea to such an extent that people (it's so clear today) believe war is holy and justifiable when done in god's name. This is why as the astrologer, I am positioned--like all good heretics--to challenge the very false claim that any of this can be done in the name of God. The proper question is in the name of which god, and given the behavior ("Judge the tree by its fruit style") the answer is MARS.
Our human history, written, goes back only a few thousand years and does not reveal the societal arrangements that predate the war-state and its species of "leadership." Until the basic paradigm is understood for the faulty reasoning and centuries-old programming it is constituted by, the same SHIT will result; although the caveat now is that the weapons (in contrast with a great many more important things) have evolved to such an efficient state that they clearly can wipe mankind off the face of this beautiful earth.
Mars and Venus, the love stars, intend for human beings to BE lovers. Together the duo signifies the merging of Yin and Yang (as to the parental lights, moon and sun) to MAKE for and sustain life. When humanity ONLY worships ONE SIDE of this Divine force, it is much like a vessel navigated by a singular oar. Therefore it circles going no where. MANKIND has been led by this type of navigation and takes for its own tunnel vision all that can be, or worse still, "evidence" of human nature. Once again I state it's the evidence of a purposely wounded human nature, not unlike the "state" forcing my father's left hand behind his back to make sure he wrote with his right hand. EVERY society conditions people, starting with children, to follow its rules and believe its lies... (look at US history as retold by Zinn as one of thousands of examples). Then the vast majority grow up with their thought processes as cordoned off as livestock penned in.
I am not exactly sure how the circle can once again mankind although my personal mantra is that the circle is heaven's OWN model for democracy, for the ways and means to peace among tribes. And I have just self-published a children's book that explains this in a very humorous way. My challenge is to get this message out there. I am committed to peace through a HIGHER understanding.
Siouxrose at 10:39, thank you for sharing your reflections and profound thinking in your post. It challenges some of my understanding of my faith and connects with themes I've been considering more seriously during this past week.
The world's monotheistic religions are locked in a seeming death struggle, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, in the world's Middle east.
The world's remaining four billion residents watch and wait this horrifying spectacle playing out in Iraq and Iran along with the whole Middle east.
No remorse, no sense of conciliation or repentance.
No faith, no unity. Abraham, "the father of our faith," must be ashamed of his children, one would think.
"The weapons...clearly can wipe mankind off the face of this beautiful earth."
Where do Bush and his friends think they can live once this planet is destroyed?
WC652: My litmus test of religion is: Does it teach tolerance or does it foment divisiveness among people? If religion cannot LIFT hearts and souls to the very premise of LOVE (love thy neighbor style), then religion ceases in its intended purpose. Today religions operate like team sports asking their followers to compete against other "teams." Kurt Vonnegut cynically quipped, "The world is divided into teams carrying out god's will."
An atheist can be a purer projector of religion so long as there is love in his or her heart, and s/he treats others accordingly. I have a temper, none of us are perfect... but it's my understanding that we take on the body to participate in greater refinements of our natures here on this now very divided planet, a/k/a Earth School 101. Thank you for your response. I write to bring a perspective that's largely been marginalized to the point of exclusion. The oldest story seldom told bears much wisdom for all ages.
How can we get anyone but the choir to care about this sermon?
Laws of immunity, and the authorities permitting them, just simply need to be repudiated, whenever people are found quilty of taking part in what would otherwise be considered a crime for anyone else, laying those people bare to punishments appropriate to criminals on a lower level.
With all that which has been written expounding how much this and past administrations have committed war crimes and crimes again international law, not much has been done to effect serious and tenacious legal action against those charged.
I'd very much favor an international tribunal and let the cards fall where they may. I'm very much sick to death of the creeping growth that's government/military/corporate corruption in this embarrassing nation. May that tribunal find them punishable under the same laws the common public would be charged with and nothing less.
shakker July 13th, 2008 10:19 pm
"How can we get anyone but the choir to care about this sermon?"
As I've been confronted recently by a higher then usual frequency of the very weary cliche of "that's only preaching to the choir", I'm setting my sights on and encourage others to not only care about the "sermon" of your chosen "church", but to relish and revel in preaching and singing to and with the choir, whether that's a congregation of 2 or just a few gathered in the name of your quest or millions.
Thanks Sioux Rose, to use a Detroit metaphor your response "hit on all cylinders". To much to expand on here but since I've been having Durga sightings of late the engulfing of Mars by the Yod of Venus (did I say that right?) was especially poignant. From a strictly Earth based perspective it's not very appealing what Durga would have and is having our feminine aspect "endure", but it is powerful and hopeful; and since I seem to be committed to peace through LOWER understanding not so repulsive to me...there's a monument to Labor here in Detroit that is in part a circle with a section missing, of course connoting some work to be finished in that movement...so in C. Myssian terms, you take care of the "perfumed" HIGHER understanding and I'll look after the "toilet water" LOWER understanding and a beautiful gem can connect the ring.
Anyhow my "temper-able" CD friend, find all the enjoyment you can in carrying the weight of your chosen witness(es).
provoice July 13th, 2008 12:51 am
A. "Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant."
Of all the things Bush has done, of all the things He is guilty of you named, this isn't one of them. The UN has been irrelevant for many years.
RichM July 13th, 2008 12:07 pm
Agreed.
B. "Personally, I think we should bring the troops home and replace Congress with THEM!"
This may be the most intelligent idea put forth here this year.
provoice July 13th, 2008 12:51 am
A. "Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant."
Of all the things Bush has done, of all the things He is guilty of you named, this isn't one of them. The UN has been irrelevant for many years.
B. "Personally, I think we should bring the troops home and replace Congress with THEM!"
This may be the most intelligent idea put forth here this year.
RichM July 13th, 2008 12:07 pm
Agreed.
This should have read like this.